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Author Topic: I hope the ARRL is on this, like flies on horse manure.  (Read 906 times)

N4UFO

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Re: I hope the ARRL is on this, like flies on horse manure.
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2022, 09:36:29 AM »

Does anyone still listen to AM radio?

Right in the article... About 47 million Americans listen to AM radio, representing about 20 percent of the radio-listening public, according to the Nielsen Company, the media tracking firm.

A LOT of talk shows on AM since no one needs to hear them blab in stereo...  ;)
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WA3SKN

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Re: I hope the ARRL is on this, like flies on horse manure.
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2022, 10:54:27 AM »

The ARRL does not control this.
The FCC does.  And Congress controls the FCC.
So you should make your concerns known to both.

-Mike.
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KF6QEX

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Re: I hope the ARRL is on this, like flies on horse manure.
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2022, 01:37:06 PM »

The ARRL does not control this.
The FCC does.  And Congress controls the FCC.
So you should make your concerns known to both.

-Mike.

The FCC may have some control on how much interference a car can produce before it can step in an "suggest" corrective action.
If we judge by the fact that you can tell when you are driving by a starbucks by the amount of interference on both AM and FM bands the FCC may not do much.
The FCC has no control of what a car manufacturer decides to "amputate" from a production car.
There is also a good chance manufacturers may have their decisions "influenced" by satellite audio streaming providers.

As far as TESLA is concerned, if the car already has an internet connection, OTA reception becomes secondary and they may get to charge a couple of bucks extra for using this connection to stream "radio".

It's 2022 and having that huge LCD screen in the car is screaming to be the display and control for an all band all mode HAM Radio, if only there was a way to tap into it!

On the positive side, if the AM broadcast band is no longer used for public broadcasting, can we have it ? 

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WA3SKN

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Re: I hope the ARRL is on this, like flies on horse manure.
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2022, 10:11:07 AM »

Automobiles are exempt from FCC Part 15 regulations.  Now, should they be?

-Mike.
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N7EKU

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Re: I hope the ARRL is on this, like flies on horse manure.
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2022, 02:27:46 PM »

I have an EV (Chevy Bolt) with an AM/FM radio. I use AM from time to time with no noticeable issue. As hams know, EMI can cause all kinds of issue with electronic devices, beyond radio interference, so I expect EMI mitigation is designed in from the start.

I think eliminating AM might just be a cost savings, and the antenna might be one of the bigger issues.

Hi,

Yes, current EV's and Hybrids are OK because they have to meet current regulations.  From the recent news I've read, what the auto manufacturers want to do is remove the AM radios so that they don't have to spend $$/time keeping the autos clean.  It's not really about AM radio, it's about generated noise.

It doesn't seem like a good thing to me.  I imagine it would mean more noise in the neighborhood around one's residence and no HF operation in the car.

Note about regulations I found:

Quote

Car and aircraft manufacturers have extensive industry standards and company specifications for EMC/EMI. For cars these standards include CISPR 25 and SAE J1113. Aircraft have RTCA DO-160 and MIL-STD-461. These are in many ways much stricter than FCC Part 15 and are required for safety certifications, such as by the FAA or the European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval (ECWVTA) process.

The issue is that vehicles are safety critical. As one engineer who works in the field told me, people will drive up to broadcast towers. You cannot have the engine computer sensors misread and cause the engine to explode. As a result, they drive cars into anechoic chambers and use kilowatt transmitters to test them. Likewise airplanes get struck by lightning on a regular basis and must continue to operate normally.

Typically, if you shield your systems against this energy going in, you will prevent radiation at the same time. On the other hand, consumer devices rarely have legislated immunity requirements, everybody remembers speakers picking up TDMA cell phones.

Car manufacturers will even have standards on how good their radio should work, for customer satisfaction. One of the issues I heard about was that Qi wireless charging pads have the potential to interfere with AM reception, which is why they're often stuck deep in the console.

In sum, the vehicle industry has adequate self-regulation for safety, so the FCC doesn't need to worry.


73
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Mark -- N7EKU/VE3

K7NI

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Re: I hope the ARRL is on this, like flies on horse manure.
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2022, 07:41:05 PM »

As stated , vehicles are exempt from FCC Part 15 limits. CISPR 25 only has limits in certain bands. It has no limit at all in most ham bands. ECE Regulation 10 limits start at 30 MHz. So for HF mobile you are pretty much SOL. Most vehicle manufacturers have their own limits that are usually based on some modification of CISPR 25 limits.
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AI5BC

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Re: I hope the ARRL is on this, like flies on horse manure.
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2022, 08:16:16 PM »

Does anyone still listen to AM radio?
Very few and the list gets smaller every day. AM broadcast stations numbers have fallen drastically in the last 40 years. Not only commercial AM but Short Wave is all but gone. WTWW just shut down last month. There is no more commercial interest in HF. Not enough bandwidth limited to voice with poor voice quality and some telemetry applications. At best a backup to the backup systems. Since there is no commercial interest or many users, FCC has no interest running down interference issues.

The second half is the Green Mafia movement, All those EV's, home Solar Systems, wind and solar farms get a free pass and nothing you can do about it. FCC controls the airwaves, Congress controls the FCC, and the Green Mafia controls Congress.
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AA5TB

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Re: I hope the ARRL is on this, like flies on horse manure.
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2023, 01:56:02 PM »

Both my 2015 Nissan LEAF and 2021 Chevy Bolt EVs have no detectable RFI, from HF to UHF. The Broadcast AM radios receive fine in both. As others have mentioned, if RFI suppression is done during design it is very effective. If not, it is much more difficult to fix after the manufacture.

73,
Steve - AA5TB
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