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Author Topic: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios  (Read 535 times)

N8CBX

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Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« on: December 19, 2022, 10:04:40 AM »

I just had a new Speed Queen washer & dryer (TR7/DR7) delivered & installed within 60mins ago and found extreme RFI on 80M and my AM radio. Anyone know of a AC line filter that could plug into the wall outlet for the washer?
Jan N8CBX
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WA9AFM

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2022, 12:01:04 PM »

Ask the dealer is there is a service bulletin which covers RFI. 
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K7IN

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2022, 12:02:29 PM »

Anyone know of a AC line filter that could plug into the wall outlet for the washer?
Jan N8CBX

Hi Jan - I made three of them using a 4x4 deep metal electrical junction box with a short 1-ft male and female AC connector stubs. Inside I mounted a 20A rated EMT/RFI filter I bought on eBay and it eliminated most of my RFI problems. I installed one on my garage door opener because on certain bands, my garage door would open and close when I keyed the rig. I'm only running 90w power so, somehow RF is still getting into my house wiring. 

Here's a link to one similar to what I used on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/364014995870?hash=item54c0fc099e:g:b48AAOSwQ7tjSHfZ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoPt6O8c1a%2BtFaSKgd840S40GeC1J31IJVtnBSltQlcbclp%2FliXtzam2q24M8ssNbSIjcvWd9%2F4YWhfOJo1LdLavGP4QxquWg1j7SIjVcDxaPkXDFclkIF7B44JSeOj6lgF%2BiliEqBsEPRUILM6kvCiY%2FCOUzxRYK5w4zU8B9V2Gh2iNlzi%2Fi5x3mez0OsQvYLE6DvCGdV2bmdjZS3%2F5dz%2Bw%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_DMvL-lYQ

73, Paul - K7IN
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WA3SKN

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2022, 12:47:35 PM »

You should work with the dealer on this.  A power line filter is easy to build, but is it the power line?
Neither a washer or dryer should be emitting RFI... they are not supposed to transmit noise, or any other signals.

-Mike.
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KH6AQ

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2022, 12:51:47 PM »

Device power draw
Speed Queen DR7 dryer, 240 VAC, 5350W
Speed Queen TR7 washer, 120 VAC, unspecified


Non-invasive EMI filter
I'm always wary of adding a differential-mode EMI filter to a device that might already have one and I'd begin with a simple common-mode choke having no galvanic connection to AC power. This filters the two AC lines plus the GND return, which could be important in this case. A non-invasive common-mode line filter can be constructed by wrapping the AC power cord ferrite cores. If the cord, or suitable wires, can be wrapped with 9 turns through four stacked FT240-43 ferrite cores you have an 80 meter CM filter with >8k ohms CM impedance. Any wiring must be rated for the AC outlet current rating.

G3TXQ chokes  http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/chokes/type43.jpg


External EMI filter
External EMI filters should be rated for the outlet voltage and current, or higher. To begin, let's focus on the dryer. An external filter as suggested by K7IN could be quite effective. A suitable filter module rated for 250 VAC, 30A:

TE Connectivity CORCOM 2-1609034-1 available at Digikey for $61.77. It is in stock.

Datasheet  https://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDelivery/DDEController?Action=srchrtrv&DocNm=1654001_CORCOM_PRODUCT_GUIDE_SB_SERIES&DocType=CS&DocLang=English


RFI path and FCC exemption
The RFI egress path for AM/80m is the AC power cord. Washers and driers are exempt from part 15 RF emissions limits. And even if they were to comply, the FCC allowable conducted EMI high enough to cause S9+ noise in the HF bands. FCC radiated EMI limits apply above 30 MHz.

https://apps.fcc.gov/eas/comments/GetPublishedDocument.html?id=22&tn=177719#:~:text=An%20exempt%20household%20appliance%20is,central%20or%20window)%2C%20etc.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 01:11:36 PM by KH6AQ »
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K4WH

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2022, 01:02:10 PM »


OK, not kidding.  Guess you have used the units  ??  but go back to the dealer, and ask them to take the units back, explaining why, and credit towards another brand, unless you really like the Speed Queen brand and want to keep it.  I once had to invite a manager of Best Buy over to my house to actually hear the noise on my radios when the appliance was turned on and off.  May not work today but you can try.    Had another unit that gave off RFI and the wife and I just worked out a s schedule when she was going to do the wash. Since that was only once a week it was not bad.  By the way, does it wipe out the complete spectrum from AM band to 6 meters  ??
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K9AO

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2022, 01:34:54 PM »

Not sure if this will apply to your brand, but I had the dealer install the factory EMI filter kit on both my Whirlpool washer and electric dryer immediately after I bought them. I had to deal with engineering at the factory to get the right contact. After that, they had the dealer install the kits. That took care of the issues for me.

When I replaced my failed AC unit I had decided what I wanted and then called the Trane factory ahead of the install date and they had the EMI filters sent to the dealer and these were installed at the dealer's shop before they arrived to put the stuff in place. The techs were happy about how all that worked out since it was so much easier to install the stuff in the shop where they had room to work.

Rick
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N8CBX

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2022, 02:28:22 PM »

I'm going to fabricate a RFI filter box and screw the box on to the existing wall receptacle.
I have Corcom filters here as well as type 43 ferrits. Here's what I don't want to pay for a dealer filter. It looks to me to be installed in the washer?
Washer EMI Filter Kit 480V P45/65 | F828P3
$530.59
https://bdsparts.com/f828p3

I have had this RFI problem before and built an 80M DF receiver. I found the noise to be everywhere in the house wiring generated by the clothes washer (The LG dish washer is bad too)
Jan N8CBX
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N5KBP

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2022, 03:26:29 PM »

It is the washer. It uses a Direct drive DC motor controlled by a PWM in the control board. That PWM is probably the source of your RFI. The days of the old 2 speed AC motors in a washer is a thing of the past.
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K6BRN

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2022, 04:10:25 PM »

I just had a new Speed Queen washer & dryer (TR7/DR7) delivered & installed within 60mins ago and found extreme RFI on 80M and my AM radio. Anyone know of a AC line filter that could plug into the wall outlet for the washer? Jan N8CBX

Hi Jan (N8CBX):

Yes.  I use TrippLite ISOBars on my washer and (gas) dryer to suppress conducted EMI from getting INTO them via the power cord, especially on 80M and 40M.  They work very well.  It's likely that this will help with your problem too (EMI/RFI conducted OUT of the WASHER onto house wiring and into your receiver).

Look herehttps://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Protector-Right-Angle-ISOBAR4ULTRA/dp/B0000513O4?th=1

(Tripp Lite ISOBAR ULTRA 4 Outlet Surge Protector/Power Strip, 6ft Cord, Right-Angle Plug, Metal, Lifetime Limited Warranty & $50,000 Insurance)

Speed Queen machines have a reputation for lasting forever - and they're NOT cheap.  Suggest you try this remedy before returning them.

You'll need a different solution for the dryer if it has issues as well and is 240VAC/all-electric - but you only mentioned the washer.

Good luck!

Brian - K6BRN

« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 04:13:49 PM by K6BRN »
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W0RW

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2022, 06:06:18 AM »

i have one too, SQ AWN43R1151TW01   7A.
It makes noise even when it is 'OFF'.
i used a Schaffner Filter # FN2060-20-06  (20A) filter.
Paul  w0rw
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AI5BC

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2022, 10:18:52 AM »

So make sure I understand correctly. You make your wife run a laundry business running the washer all day long while you play radio?
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N8CBX

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2022, 12:39:42 PM »

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K6BRN

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2022, 04:34:59 PM »

This is the RFI suppressor (or idea) that I was hoping to find or build. It plugs into the wall receptacle. Digi-Key has them and just about the only sole-source supplier!
Tripp Lite ULTRABLOK, $48.21, Digi-Key
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/tripp-lite/ULTRABLOK/467958?utm_medium=email&utm_source=oce&utm_campaign=4251_OCE22RT&utm_content=productdetail_US&utm_cid=3422187&so=79245444&mkt_tok=MDI4LVNYSy01MDcAAAGIzv8Gu5FVu2mOtwZNsheKj51Sw2WfL5WOUXctOCAoIsSN-6Nrt3yOZVNKbz2brp6N5XK4qmPtDPY-7Fl71R0cQwOTjQ6KiMN1q5NBnS_z

That's a TrippLite - essentially a 2-outlet no-cord ISOBAR.  I STRONGLY suggest that you do NOT get the 2-outlet model with no cord (direct plug-in)  The plugs on the back have a tendency to break off.  The corded models have no such problem but are slightly larger (4 outlets, minimum).

Brian - K6BRN
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N8CBX

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Re: Speed Queen washer (TR7) extreme RFI in AM & Ham radios
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2022, 10:41:55 AM »

The plugs on the back have a tendency to break off.
Well, if they did I'll fix that little problem.
By the way, SpeedQueen (Alliance Laundry Systems) responded back to my inquiry of this problem. They will be sending to me a free RFI/EMI filter.
I'll try them both as a comparison to see which is more affective.
Thanks,
Jan N8CBX
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