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Author Topic: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act  (Read 1121 times)

KH6AQ

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2023, 10:51:08 AM »

H.R. 9670      https://www.arrl.org/files/file/HR9670/HR9670-Amateur-Radio-Emergency-Preparedness-Act.pdf

Page 7, line 22 would help immensely. "Antennas That Do Not Require Prior Approval..." These antennas include the popular 43' vertical.
In context with the Bill’s language regarding visibility, you’d need a 44 ft high house to obstruct it from the street.

There are a number of similar contradictions including that which i would think any congressperson who worked on this “for a year” should know.

SEC. 345, (E)
A restriction that requires and amateur station antenna ground-mounted electrical enclosure, ground-mounted control enclosure, or a guy wire anchor to be visibly screened if such enclosure or anchor -- "

I interpret this to mean antenna ground-mounted electrical enclosures, ground-mounted control enclosures, or a guy wire anchors. I do not interpret it to apply to unguyed antennas having a visibly screened control enclosure and no guy wires.

  https://www.arrl.org/files/file/HR9670/HR9670-Amateur-Radio-Emergency-Preparedness-Act.pdf
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K1VSK

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2023, 12:25:44 PM »

H.R. 9670      https://www.arrl.org/files/file/HR9670/HR9670-Amateur-Radio-Emergency-Preparedness-Act.pdf

Page 7, line 22 would help immensely. "Antennas That Do Not Require Prior Approval..." These antennas include the popular 43' vertical.
In context with the Bill’s language regarding visibility, you’d need a 44 ft high house to obstruct it from the street.

There are a number of similar contradictions including that which i would think any congressperson who worked on this “for a year” should know.

SEC. 345, (E)
A restriction that requires and amateur station antenna ground-mounted electrical enclosure, ground-mounted control enclosure, or a guy wire anchor to be visibly screened if such enclosure or anchor -- "

I interpret this to mean antenna ground-mounted electrical enclosures, ground-mounted control enclosures, or a guy wire anchors. I do not interpret it to apply to unguyed antennas having a visibly screened control enclosure and no guy wires.

  https://www.arrl.org/files/file/HR9670/HR9670-Amateur-Radio-Emergency-Preparedness-Act.pdf
Not sure it’s worth anyone’s time debating something now relegated to the Congessional trash heap. But, let’s not omit the salient phrase - “restrictions may be adopted” restricting the above. It is in the omission of undefined restrictions that there is a massive hole into which this language falls.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2023, 12:31:38 PM by K1VSK »
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KB8VUL

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2023, 08:27:47 PM »

This popped up in one of my GMRS groups, and I pretty much had this to say:
This will do nothing but cost the supporters of the bill votes.  While you are adamant about wanting to enjoy your hobby, have unrestricted personal property rights and all the rest, the other home owners that don't share in your desire to park large beams in the air have rights too.  And the honest truth is we as ham operators are in the minority. 

And those that don't want to see antenna's in the air WILL put up a fight that they will no doubt win.
Here's the truth about HOA's.  No where that an HOA exists is a crap hole where people leave broken down cars and clutter around lowering property values.  HOA communities are expensive to buy houses in, expensive to live in due to the expense of property, taxes on that property and the HOA dues.   

And IF this were to come to pass and you did get a federal law in place to allow you to basically snub your nose at the HOA and park a 5 element beam at 100 feet above your house in an HOA community.  That HOA and it's now very unhappy members will crawl right up your butt about ANYTHING they can.  They will fine you and beat on you legally until you relent or leave. 
My advice, against the wishes of this board to say, you need to carefully consider your costs of ownership.  Investigate your options for property with less restriction, and if ham radio is that important to you, move to a location that you have the personal property rights you desire and leave the problem to the next guy that lives in your house. 
Ham radio is a hobby.  Not all of us picked up this hobby early in life.  I wasn't into firearms and long distance shooting before I bought the house I am in were there is a house directly behind me.  So I can't shoot on my own property.  I can put up any tower I want, and I have 3 of them in the air.  But I am looking to move so I can enjoy my shooting sports hobbies from my own land.  Point is, I didn't consider it before as being an issue. Now I do.  I have always had interests and hobbies that would have put me at odds with anything resembling an HOA.  So I have chosen to avoid them all together.  But I STILL have limitations that nothing short of relocation is going to fix.  So at this point I go to a range to shoot.  Of course that's a bit harder when you are wanting to 'go' play radio on a big antenna.  Gun ranges are a thing, public access HF antenna's are not. 
But OTHER people have the right to NOT see your antenna sticking up in the air and they may well have chosen to live in an HOA community for that reason.  Denying them that is NOT going to turn out the way you may expect it to.  And forcing things on people is NOT the way to get along and be civil.
So unless you all want to get together and start the HAM (Ham Antenna's Matter) group.  Burn some cities, raise some hell and generally be difficult I really don't believe that we will have any real luck with antenna restrictions federal mandate or not.
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K7JQ

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2023, 04:08:32 AM »


Here's the truth about HOA's. HOA communities are expensive to buy houses in, expensive to live in due to the expense of property, taxes on that property and the HOA dues.   


Not really. Whereas there are *exclusive*, high-dollar HOA communities, I believe the majority are actually more affordable, and have more modern construction, up-to-date energy efficiency, and living features. They're generally "cookie-cutter" houses on smaller parcels of land, where the builder can spread costs better than building a custom home on a personal parcel of land. Property expenses/upkeep and taxes are no different than any non-HOA property. Depending on the community amenities, HOA dues are generally very affordable, and keep the community from becoming run down. Most people actually like the CC&R's to avoid nightmare neighbors.

HOA complainers are usually "Karens" and/or their husbands...those people that must always have something to bitch about. If you're a ham radio operator and must have your tower and beam, buy elsewhere. Simple ;).
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AI5BC

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2023, 07:06:48 AM »

You guys need to face the truth, people do not want ham radio operators living next door or in the neighborhood. They do not want trailer trash stringing up clothes lines in the trees or erecting dangerous half-baked structures. You lower property values and you are not welcome in the neighborhood.
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K1VSK

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2023, 10:02:23 AM »

You guys need to face the truth, people do not want ham radio operators living next door or in the neighborhood. They do not want trailer trash stringing up clothes lines in the trees or erecting dangerous half-baked structures. You lower property values and you are not welcome in the neighborhood.
Not all hams are “trailer trash” who have no consideration or respect for their neighbors. But it appears there are a few only like rules they approve of.
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KG4RUL

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2023, 01:58:20 PM »

You guys need to face the truth, people do not want ham radio operators living next door or in the neighborhood. They do not want trailer trash stringing up clothes lines in the trees or erecting dangerous half-baked structures. You lower property values and you are not welcome in the neighborhood.
Not all hams are “trailer trash” who have no consideration or respect for their neighbors. But it appears there are a few only like rules they approve of.

And I should be overjoyed when my neighbor gets permission from the HOA to put in a pool and parties all day and into the night.  And I should be overjoyed when my my neighbor puts up a skate board ramp for their kids which they use all day an into the night.  And I should be overjoyed when my neighbor starts running a 'motel' on AIRBNB or other service.  But, God forbid I should do Anything for my enjoyment like amateur radio.
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K1VSK

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2023, 05:02:28 PM »


And I should be overjoyed when my neighbor gets permission from the HOA to put in a pool and parties all day and into the night.  And I should be overjoyed when my my neighbor puts up a skate board ramp for their kids which they use all day an into the night.  And I should be overjoyed when my neighbor starts running a 'motel' on AIRBNB or other service.  But, God forbid I should do Anything for my enjoyment like amateur radio.

I am not familiar with an HOA which would tolerate short-term rentals and whatever a skateboard ramp is. Sounds like you are advocating for a stricter HOA and greater enforcement of it's rules. It would be hypocrisy to want strict enforced rules but concurrently think it's okay to put up an antenna.

It sounds like your neighbor is doing precisely what you imply you want to do - interfere with others by putting up an antenna which they might find objectionable. Stated differently, you object to a neighbor breaking the rules but you find it objectionable that you can"t...

And assuming you do live in an HOA, no one compelled you to live there so why complain? And if you don't live in an HOA where CC&Rs preclude antennas, what's your point?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2023, 05:04:48 PM by K1VSK »
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W1MOW

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2023, 08:31:46 AM »

Everytime one of these bills comes before Congress, and posted about here, people on both sides come out of the woodwork.

The same HOA/CCR supporters will post against, and others will post for it. Having lived in HOA/CCR communities over the years, I have found that there are both good and bad ones.

I still don't understand why "reasonable" accommodations can't be made for amateur radio. No 70' towers with stacked yagis, but why not a 66' EFHW run from a house to a tree, or a 2m/70cm vertical painted the same color as the house where it is attached, or for that matter a gound mounted vertical that is also a flagpole? Simple and resonable accommodations would eliminate the need for these bills.

Heaven forbid you have to tell these same people they have to wear a mask to protect others, but then they have a right to tell people what they can, or can't do on their own property.

The hypocrisy in this country is getting out of hand!

Gary W1MOW
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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt - Bertram Russell (1935)

So not much has changed in almost 90 years!

K1VSK

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2023, 01:37:27 PM »

Everytime one of these bills comes before Congress, and posted about here, people on both sides come out of the woodwork.


Given this is a discussion forum, it should not come as a surprise that people comment. On this as with any other topic here.

As to the “I still don’t understand why reasonable accommodations can’t be made …”, I never did read an explanation here or anywhere else why people who willingly sign an agreement should be reasonably expect they not follow the agreement.
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K6JH

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2023, 09:05:46 PM »

Everytime one of these bills comes before Congress, and posted about here, people on both sides come out of the woodwork.


Given this is a discussion forum, it should not come as a surprise that people comment. On this as with any other topic here.

As to the “I still don’t understand why reasonable accommodations can’t be made …”, I never did read an explanation here or anywhere else why people who willingly sign an agreement should be reasonably expect they not follow the agreement.

Why? Because times, expectations and desires change. Past C,C, & R’s used to have clauses about no people of color, or Jewish descent. You’d be hard pressed to find anyone that would think that’s still a good idea, whether new law precludes enforcement or not. Should we still be arguing that owners “signed a contract”?

Granted that’s an extreme case. Amateur radio operators are a minority that is not currently a protected class, and can be legally be discriminated against.
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Jim K6JH

K1VSK

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2023, 06:48:48 AM »






Why? Because times, expectations and desires change. Past C,C, & R’s used to have clauses about no people of color, or Jewish descent. You’d be hard pressed to find anyone that would think that’s still a good idea, whether new law precludes enforcement or not. Should we still be arguing that owners “signed a contract”?

Granted that’s an extreme case. Amateur radio operators are a minority that is not currently a protected class, and can be legally be discriminated against.

Equating racism and discrimination to antenna limitations takes a “special” kind of logic. As does suggesting hams be added to the  list of protected classes of race, color, sex, national origin, disability or age.

It’s a simple choice - live in an HOA or don’t live there. It’s a free and unencumbered choice. But don’t move in and then try to inflict your desires on everyone else by citing such ludicrous rationalizations.
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K7JQ

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2023, 08:35:17 AM »


Amateur radio operators are a minority that is not currently a protected class, and can be legally be discriminated against.

What??? The last I saw is that hams can buy a house and live wherever they want. But according to community CC&R's (which they agreed to and signed off on), they just can't bring their antennas with them. Just like *anyone else* that wants to park their huge RV on the street, put a junker car on blocks in their driveway, or paint their house purple with pink stripes.
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K7JQ

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2023, 08:58:59 AM »


I still don't understand why "reasonable" accommodations can't be made for amateur radio.

Heaven forbid you have to tell these same people they have to wear a mask to protect others, but then they have a right to tell people what they can, or can't do on their own property.

Gary W1MOW

Being a ham in an HOA, I don't understand either. Something that doesn't impact the visualization or safety of the community seems logical to me. But all that and what we think doesn't matter. Until "reasonable accommodation" (whatever that means) is put into federal law or adopted into an individual HOA  CC&R, it is what it is. CC&R's are legally binding and, yes, they can tell you what you can and can't do on your own property. From other posts from you, I believe your wife is an attorney, and will confirm this.
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K1VSK

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2023, 09:25:06 AM »

Rhetorical question - if CC&Rs are so troublesome, why is it that the hams who actually live in and are therefore affected by HOA rules aren’t the ones complaining?

See - busybody syndrome.
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