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Author Topic: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act  (Read 1127 times)

K7JQ

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2023, 10:10:15 AM »

prevent visual abnormalities and situations that could impact the safety, welfare, and comfort of its residents.

I think you left out the most important reason, property values. Otherwise, I agree with your assessment.

Yes, property values also. But, there are others on these forums that claim, with various studies, not necessarily so. Each community, HOA or not, has its own unique set of "comps" that determine what houses there should sell for.

In the case of ham radio antennas, I point to one of my posts above describing an 89 foot crankup tower and 4 element beam monstrosity on a postage stamp sized lot, surrounded on all sides by close-in homes. I'd think that only the homes in the immediate visual vicinity of the antenna would be affected by it. Any of those homes offered for sale would limit the amount of potential buyers willing to put up with the eyesore and safety considerations, thereby reducing their value and eventual selling price. If the antenna was just a visually limited vertical or wires, I doubt if it would have had much of an impact on surrounding home values and/or their potential buyers.

Personally, I have a fence-mounted HF screwdriver antenna and 6 meter loop in my backyard, visible to my next door neighbor, and they just easily and quickly sold their home for top dollar.

Before I hit "Post", I see that K1VSK described just such a tower incident involving him ;).
« Last Edit: January 11, 2023, 10:22:45 AM by K7JQ »
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W1VT

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2023, 10:28:42 AM »

I have two dozen wire antennas in my back yard and they are hiding in plain sight.  They are supported by a half dozen trees.
Several of my neighbors say they have purchased their homes because of my roses! 
I grow three hundred rose bushes.  I have roses in bloom from the beginning of June to the end of October.

I worked FT8WW on 20CW last night with a dipole at 30 feet.
I've worked over three hundred entities on CW from my present location.
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K7JQ

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2023, 11:45:58 AM »


Several of my neighbors say they have purchased their homes because of my roses! 
I grow three hundred rose bushes.  I have roses in bloom from the beginning of June to the end of October.


But you'll never hear someone say "I bought my home because of your 89 foot tower and monster antenna". Unless he's a ham buying *your* home ;D.

At least you never have to go shopping for flowers on Valentine's Day ;).
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W9IQ

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2023, 03:01:11 PM »

I think the provision that separates the idealist from the pragmaticist is the permitting of flag pole antennas.

Where do our resident pundits stand on this issue alone?

(Yes, I have a COA property, yes I am an officer on a COA board and yes I have a station on non-CCR property so I am fully qualified to ask this question...)

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

K1VSK

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2023, 07:02:00 AM »

I think the provision that separates the idealist from the pragmaticist is the permitting of flag pole antennas.

Where do our resident pundits stand on this issue alone?

(Yes, I have a COA property, yes I am an officer on a COA board and yes I have a station on non-CCR property so I am fully qualified to ask this question...)

- Glenn W9IQ
The pragmatist would say display of the flag is unencumbered, however, the manner in terms of the height and location is discretionary as is that of the pole.

It’s a moot point. You don’t need a flag pole “antenna” to display a flag on a pole. Consequently, the antenna  is a mutually exclusive consideration.
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AI5BC

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2023, 07:27:30 AM »

I think the provision that separates the idealist from the pragmaticist is the permitting of flag pole antennas.

Where do our resident pundits stand on this issue alone?
- Glenn W9IQ
That is what hams do best, break the rules and codes, then look for ways to hide their activity like hanging out on QRZ and Eham scheming to break the rules and codes. ARRL and CBers motto should be: Rules, we don't need any stinking rules. "
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K7JQ

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2023, 08:49:19 AM »

I think the provision that separates the idealist from the pragmaticist is the permitting of flag pole antennas.

Where do our resident pundits stand on this issue alone?

(Yes, I have a COA property, yes I am an officer on a COA board and yes I have a station on non-CCR property so I am fully qualified to ask this question...)

- Glenn W9IQ

Glenn, I think you're more than qualified to ask any question on the forums. Usually, you're the one *answering* questions ;).

IMO, a ham radio antenna *disguised* as a CC&R permissible flagpole would be a perfect example of "reasonable accommodation" by a HOA, if you can get them to approve it. When I say "permissible", you can't automatically assume that the Federal law allowing the display of American flags means a freestanding, ground-mounted flagpole. I'd imagine a CC&R can limit the display to a small pole affixed to a side wall/facade of the house. They could claim that a freestanding pole can be a safety hazard, or noisy to neighbors when a rope or chain bangs against it in the wind.

As K1VSK stated, a freestanding flagpole would still be subject to height and placement restrictions, whereas being too short, too close to a structure, or no room to place sufficient ground radials would make it ineffective as a viable antenna.

If I were to consider such an installation when I'm under HOA/CC&R antenna restrictions, I'd apply for permission to erect a flagpole, not a "flagpole antenna". I see no reason to alert them to my primary intention. If height and placement is conducive for an effective vertical antenna, I'd make plans to disguise it as/within the flagpole, and bury the ground radials/coax. Also if necessary, disguise a tuner at the base. There are companies that actually manufacture flagpole antennas.

Of course, if you can get a CC&R to permit "flagpole ham radio antennas", all the better. Probably the same odds as the lottery ;).

Bob K7JQ

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AI5BC

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2023, 09:39:07 AM »


IMO, a ham radio antenna *disguised* as a CC&R permissible flagpole would be a perfect example of "reasonable accommodation" by a HOA,
So here is my beef with that statement. There is no way an HOA would allow any ham to do this and trash up the neighborhood. Something you and most hams are not aware of or even care about, A ground mounted vertical monopole antenna is a shock and safety hazard. Electrical codes have a lot to say about it. In order to have a code compliant installation would require you to place barriers like a chain-link fence limiting access to qualified personnel, and warning signs to alert the public of the danger. Ironic huh? Not in my neighborhood Sammy.

That Flagpole is hot with voltages up to several hundred volts for animals and humans to come in contact with. Can be used to an advantage if you have a trespasser leaning on the flagpole or a dog peeing on it. Key the mic, whistle will send them both running and bawling to the hills to never return again. Key that mic and shock a kid or the mailman, and you lose your house. Open and shut case. You had complete disregard of public safety rules, and electrical codes uncle Elmer.
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K7JQ

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2023, 10:28:14 AM »


IMO, a ham radio antenna *disguised* as a CC&R permissible flagpole would be a perfect example of "reasonable accommodation" by a HOA,
So here is my beef with that statement. There is no way an HOA would allow any ham to do this and trash up the neighborhood. Something you and most hams are not aware of or even care about, A ground mounted vertical monopole antenna is a shock and safety hazard. Electrical codes have a lot to say about it. In order to have a code compliant installation would require you to place barriers like a chain-link fence limiting access to qualified personnel, and warning signs to alert the public of the danger. Ironic huh? Not in my neighborhood Sammy.

That Flagpole is hot with voltages up to several hundred volts for animals and humans to come in contact with. Can be used to an advantage if you have a trespasser leaning on the flagpole or a dog peeing on it. Key the mic, whistle will send them both running and bawling to the hills to never return again. Key that mic and shock a kid or the mailman, and you lose your house. Open and shut case. You had complete disregard of public safety rules, and electrical codes uncle Elmer.

Somehow I knew you'd chime in on this. And my name isn't Sammy nor uncle Elmer ;D.

Surprisingly, you have a point...if the flagpole was metal and in the front yard unprotected by a barrier. Here in AZ, the majority of homes have a backyard surrounded by a 6' block wall or other security fencing. Unauthorized personnel within your backyard would be trespassing on your property. But YMMV.

So if you received permission for a backyard flagpole (which I see all the time out here), it would be no different than any other exposure to a ground-mounted vertical antenna on your (protected) property. A fiberglass/non-conductive flagpole with a wire or aluminum tube inside could also work in the front yard without posing a shock/burn hazard.

Many ways to make things work. Maybe not in your neighborhood, Bunky, but it would in mine ::).
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K1VSK

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2023, 11:36:54 AM »

I think  using a flag pole as an antenna where antennas are prohibited is dishonest, is deceptive and lacks integrity. Are people really that cavalier about what many consider a symbol of our country and its values being used to subvert a consensual agreement they made just for a hobby?
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AI5BC

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2023, 01:36:12 PM »

I think  using a flag pole as an antenna where antennas are prohibited is dishonest, is deceptive and lacks integrity
It is, and that is why there is a dedicated forum here on Eham and QRZ to learn how.
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K7JQ

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2023, 01:59:55 PM »

I think  using a flag pole as an antenna where antennas are prohibited is dishonest, is deceptive and lacks integrity. Are people really that cavalier about what many consider a symbol of our country and its values being used to subvert a consensual agreement they made just for a hobby?

Don, I respect your opinion. But I see nothing wrong with killing two birds with one stone. You can still respect and honor your Country by flying the flag, and operate radio at the same time with no visual impact to the community.

Would there be any difference with flying the flag on a flagpole (not being an antenna) and having a separate attic or other stealth antenna? Or are you of the opinion that if there are CC&R antenna restrictions/prohibitions you shouldn't have any antennas at all, stealth or otherwise not being visible to the community? I was under the impression that you are in an HOA, but still operate.
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K1VSK

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2023, 06:54:05 PM »



Don, I respect your opinion. But I see nothing wrong with killing two birds with one stone. You can still respect and honor your Country by flying the flag, and operate radio at the same time with no visual impact to the community.
Disguising a prohibited antenna using a flag pole which appears innocuous is still being deceptive to circumvent a rule. A rule to which we all agreed.
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Would there be any difference with flying the flag on a flagpole (not being an antenna) and having a separate attic or other stealth antenna? Or are you of the opinion that if there are CC&R antenna restrictions/prohibitions you shouldn't have any antennas at all, stealth or otherwise not being visible to the community?
Shouldn’t that be in the context of what the restriction is, e.g., no antennas, no outside antennas, no visible antenna, no radio transmission, etc..? Most CC&Rs apply to the exterior of the homes.
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I was under the impression that you are in an HOA, but still operate.

I have written approval in the form of a modification to have a Hexbeam which conforms to the height and visibility limitations granted in the mod.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2023, 06:57:40 PM by K1VSK »
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K7JQ

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2023, 08:01:04 PM »



Don, I respect your opinion. But I see nothing wrong with killing two birds with one stone. You can still respect and honor your Country by flying the flag, and operate radio at the same time with no visual impact to the community.
Disguising a prohibited antenna using a flag pole which appears innocuous is still being deceptive to circumvent a rule. A rule to which we all agreed.
Quote
Would there be any difference with flying the flag on a flagpole (not being an antenna) and having a separate attic or other stealth antenna? Or are you of the opinion that if there are CC&R antenna restrictions/prohibitions you shouldn't have any antennas at all, stealth or otherwise not being visible to the community?
Shouldn’t that be in the context of what the restriction is, e.g., no antennas, no outside antennas, no visible antenna, no radio transmission, etc..? Most CC&Rs apply to the exterior of the homes.
Quote
I was under the impression that you are in an HOA, but still operate.

I have written approval in the form of a modification to have a Hexbeam which conforms to the height and visibility limitations granted in the mod.

Fair enough. On this subject, we can agree to disagree. Since I’ve been using stealth antennas in my three HOA’s for the last 30 years with no repercussions, you can  consider me “dishonest, deceptive, and lacking integrity”. And if I would erect a flagpole, whether it doubles as an antenna or not, I’d still be proud to display the American flag.

Meanwhile, with no harm/infringement to anyone or anything, I’ve been enjoying the hobby. I still sleep well at night😏.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2023, 08:11:00 PM by K7JQ »
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K1VSK

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Re: 2023 Emergency Preparedness Act
« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2023, 06:57:10 AM »







Fair enough. On this subject, we can agree to disagree. Since I’ve been using stealth antennas in my three HOA’s for the last 30 years with no repercussions, you can  consider me “dishonest, deceptive, and lacking integrity”. And if I would erect a flagpole, whether it doubles as an antenna or not, I’d still be proud to display the American flag.

Meanwhile, with no harm/infringement to anyone or anything, I’ve been enjoying the hobby. I still sleep well at night😏.

Opinions vary. No one cares about my opinion except me. Nor  should they. I wouldn’t have expressed it so bluntly except you asked…
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