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Author Topic: TN8N - CONGO  (Read 2155 times)

EI2GLB

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #60 on: January 20, 2023, 11:08:18 AM »

Conclusions,

Clublog leaderboard has made people into DX'hogs and T32C was to a rare entity TN8K wasn't in the top 75 most wanted, it was just a feeding frenzy, some guys got over 40 slots that's crazy, the little guy never got a chance,


I was looking at some of that same data.  Some more interesting comparisons:

- both at the same part of the Sunspot Cycle although one in the Pacific and one in Africa
- T32C had about 10 more active days than TN8K. 
- If you remove the extra active days, the QSO counts are very comparable in totals - gross totals were 213k for T32C and 164k for TN8K.
- T32C had 47k Uniques and TN8K had 26k Uniques.  Again if you normalize days, T32C has 33k uniques.
- The percentage of modes for T32C was 42% Voice, 48% CW, and 10% Digital (RTTY and PSK)
- The percentage of modes for TN8K was 19% Voice, 31% CW, 48% Digital.

Conclusions? 

Mine are that there are less DXers in the world than 10 years ago but still quite a few ~30,000?  And clearly Voice is giving up Qs hugely, and even CW is dropping, in favor of Digital.
What's the chicken vs the egg?  People love digital? Or DXpeditions are going to it because its easier?  Not sure, but the math says that the ratios are changing however not so much as to just go digital.  Ortherwise, TN8K wouldn;t have worked 80,000 Qs non Digital.

Ed  N1UR
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N0UN

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #61 on: January 20, 2023, 03:06:14 PM »

Conclusions,

Clublog leaderboard has made people into DX'hogs and T32C was to a rare entity TN8K wasn't in the top 75 most wanted, it was just a feeding frenzy, some guys got over 40 slots that's crazy, the little guy never got a chance,


Poor little guys.  Perhaps they should try that lazy, automated computer scripted text messaging app while Amateur Radio operators do what Amateur Radio Operators do.

Oink, oink

N0UN

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EI2GLB

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #62 on: January 20, 2023, 03:20:12 PM »

You are not even at the races to be a Hog Wayne  ;D




Conclusions,

Clublog leaderboard has made people into DX'hogs and T32C was to a rare entity TN8K wasn't in the top 75 most wanted, it was just a feeding frenzy, some guys got over 40 slots that's crazy, the little guy never got a chance,


Poor little guys.  Perhaps they should try that lazy, automated computer scripted text messaging app while Amateur Radio operators do what Amateur Radio Operators do.

Oink, oink

N0UN


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WB9LUR

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2023, 03:38:54 PM »

Conclusions,

Clublog leaderboard has made people into DX'hogs and T32C was to a rare entity TN8K wasn't in the top 75 most wanted, it was just a feeding frenzy, some guys got over 40 slots that's crazy, the little guy never got a chance,


"...the little guy never got a chance,"

What is a "little guy"? Does 100 watts and a ground mounted vertical count as a little guy?

If so, then this "little guy" worked them on 7 bands. I had "my chance" and I took it.

Every QSO - no mouse clicks - no spurious key clicks - just pure sweet CW.



Randy / WB9LUR



ps ... got FT8WW that way too.




« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 03:41:43 PM by WB9LUR »
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N0UN

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2023, 03:43:09 PM »

You are not even at the races to be a Hog Wayne  ;D




Conclusions,

Clublog leaderboard has made people into DX'hogs and T32C was to a rare entity TN8K wasn't in the top 75 most wanted, it was just a feeding frenzy, some guys got over 40 slots that's crazy, the little guy never got a chance,


Poor little guys.  Perhaps they should try that lazy, automated computer scripted text messaging app while Amateur Radio operators do what Amateur Radio Operators do.

Oink, oink

N0UN



I was speaking of real Hams that utilize the "human modes" - not that lazy, mindless automated computer scripted text messaging thingy.

 :)

N0UN
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WA2VUY

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #65 on: January 20, 2023, 06:14:09 PM »

Another conclusion: record keepers need to start using an * to denote lopsided FT totals in lists.

For example: the German DX Foundation dxpedition Honor Roll, https://gdxf.de/megadxpeditions/honorroll.php, where TN8K slots in #6.
TN8K:
Total: 164,939
Digital: 80,915*
*78,000 FT

Let's look at #7 on the list:
7O6T Yemen
Total: 162,029
Digital: 8,795

More conclusions:
- working huge #s  of contacts was possible without FT
- the hobby has changed






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VK3HJ

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2023, 08:29:05 PM »

I looked back at two "easy" DXpeditions for me to work, these being T32C and K5P. For both, I worked 20 slots and stopped. That accounted for 9 bands, complete sweep for CW and SSB, and only a few RTTY QSO. I could have worked more. T32C also offered a few other Data sub-modes which I ignored.
TN8K also offered redundant Data sub-modes, presumably to build a larger QSO total. These I regard as Dupes. They don't really count for anything except ego. With two new bands (10 and 40 m) and two new modes (Data and Phone) I reckon I did ok. They were so difficult to work that I didn't bother chasing bands I had already confirmed. 80 m would have been nice, but they were working Europe during the short window of opportunity I had. I didn't hear or see anything on 160 m.
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WB9LUR

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2023, 08:45:58 PM »

...80 m would have been nice, but they were working Europe during the short window of opportunity I had. I didn't hear or see anything on 160 m.

I missed them on 80 as well - my fault - when they were on I was not (mostly) - I do enjoy hearing the stories about how great their signal was - on the night I wasn't available. Not.

Never heard a dit except for the up patrol on 160M.

Randy / WB9LUR

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WO7R

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2023, 10:21:34 PM »

Quote
People love digital? Or DXpeditions are going to it because its easier?

The smaller expeditions, the ones with one, two, or maybe four ops are doing more digital.  Why?  Rate.

FT8 in F&H gives you rate.  Now, if you have a big team, you're almost certain to have someone who can really churn out the rate on CW and/or SSB.  But, a small group might not have first class DXpedition/Contest Ops that can pull 100 to 200 Qs an hour out of a howling pileup.  They will migrate naturally to FT8 in F&H to get rate.  That's what we've been seeing.

Do big expeditions have only high rate operators?  Of course not.  But, they are there and they account for a lot of Qs when they are present.  They also tend to get assigned to the "hot" bands whereas an operator with a lower rate will do the other bands.  Meanwhile, FT8 cleans up everywhere it is tried.

So, if you don't like FT8, work hard for the minority of Qs in the other modes or lobby for better funded, larger teams to go after the other modes.
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WO7R

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2023, 10:24:14 PM »

Quote
Another conclusion: record keepers need to start using an * to denote lopsided FT totals in lists.

That was done in baseball for Roger Maris' 61 home run year.

It is now widely viewed as a mistake and there are no asterisks for the bigger numbers that came later (even the ones that were known or likely to be 'roid enhanced).

Besides, usually, the minority group (and sorry, FT8 haters are that groups) tend not to set the standards.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee.  The "jihad" against FT8 is a miserable failure.
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W2IRT

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2023, 11:27:49 PM »

Time to wake up and smell the coffee.  The "jihad" against FT8 is a miserable failure.
Amen brother! To all those who do nothing but whine about the new digital modes, I say this: This howling at the moon has gone on too long. Enough already—use it, don't use it, who cares—nobody except you.

Go into any online ham radio forum, or look at the minutes from any club meeting around the world, and the biggest worry is attracting new hams into the hobby. When they get here, and we convince them that DXing is the Bees' Knees, then all we do is whizz on their cornflakes, guess how long they're going to stick around? Especially when the deck is already stacked against them in terms of potential lifetime awards being unavailable to them. Hate on the FT modes all you want, but all you're doing is adding nails to the coffin of DXing overall.

Sad Hams are killing the hobby. Get the....heck over it. Evolve or die out, but stop whinging because you don't like the fact that someone spent tens of thousands of dollars to operate from a rare location in a way that they feel serves the most people in the best way possible but doesn't conform to your ancient ideals. Are they operating legally? Are their transmissions clean? Are they (hopefully) giving everybody a shot at getting in the log, even those places with short openings? Yes? Then quitcherb*tchin. Work them the way they want to be worked or go play tiddlywinks.

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Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

N1UR

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2023, 04:30:13 AM »

And did some of them misrepresent what they were really going to do to get money out of the old men, yup.....

Get over that as well.

Ed  N1UR
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EI2GLB

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2023, 05:59:24 AM »

For me this is the perfect way to maximize credit from a DXpedition and not be a hog (no 160 here),

I don't see the need to work a station on more slots as what is the point, But I am only interested in DXCC maybe there is some award out there that requires over 40 slots ??

Opinions are great we all have them and we all don't have to agree but everyone is entitled to have there own,

12m is on fire here today maybe everyone should work a little radio over the weekend and leave the keyboard alone,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB





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K4HB

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2023, 06:56:33 AM »

Oh the little guy, the poor little guy... We had list lizard nets so the little guy would have a chance, now it's FT8. And those mean ole DX piggies filling up the leaderboards make it almost impossible for the little guy to make a contact.

Well, this little guy is a former DX piggy. Used to love playing the ClubLog piggy board, but now I'm a reformed piggy. Case in point, did it all with wire antennas. The following is Ducie Island 2008, before FT8 came along.


Now I'm a reformed piggy, only work what I need. Don't criticize those who play the leaderboard. But those who intentionally dupe or call for countries/bands/modes they don't need for anything whatsoever are being piggies. They are denying someone else a chance who may actually need it. Some have posted lately who admitted doing just that. Oink Oink
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KE4KY

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Re: TN8N - CONGO
« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2023, 07:07:29 AM »

I don't see the need to work a station on more slots as what is the point, But I am only interested in DXCC maybe there is some award out there that requires over 40 slots ??

Opinions are great we all have them and we all don't have to agree but everyone is entitled to have there own,


Only a portion of the globe has propagation to/from an area during any given set of hours on any given band. Sometimes the openings are short, other times they last many hours.

Just because someone works over the course of days/weeks a DX-pedition on many band/mode slots can't be said they're knocking someone else out a contact. Given that 3-5 operating positions are active at one time, opportunity is presented to us in various means simultaneously daily. There is no way to quantify the assertion that band slot hunters contribute to others not getting into the log. Bitching and complaining on eHam doesn't quite meet the threshold of an argument. If you think about it, on most operations, sometimes even the big ones, by the end of the operating period the DX-pedition ops are begging for contacts at times on some bands.

Having been a DX-pedition pilot many times, you should see the emails received from the mobiles, QRP types, and those with less than optimum operating parameters that get into the log relatively easy, especially when they state they understood their best band/time/mode combinations. Although now deleted, the groups.io page for VP8PJ was replete with complimentary reports of such ops being thankful for getting into the log. The DX-chaser did their job to get into the log.

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