Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Down

Author Topic: Are ARES and similar groups relying excessively on the internet?  (Read 13849 times)

KB8VUL

  • Member
  • Posts: 654
Re: Are ARES and similar groups relying excessively on the internet?
« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2022, 02:16:58 PM »

One of the things I find interesting are the words people choose. This thread did not disappoint.  Words and phrases like...component, sideways, step around, mission focus, comms, adaptability, back pedal, redundant, tactical, functionality, rogue actors, toolbox, worst case scenario, solution looking for a problem, go kit, cultivating. 

I don't see what so special about a lot of what you quoted. Many are common terms used in engineering, some are opinion, some are more focused on working a plan like a business plan but with different goals.

Beats me what the fuss is.

Yeah, I went back and read the thread over again.  Some of what was mentioned was stuff I said.  Not sure why it's an issue.

I did get a kick out of the idea of cultivating hams to operate in a certain manner.  That's NOT gonna happen.  And several have pointed that out and in truth it's the basis of the whole thread.  And forgive me (sort of) for saying this, but I don't see connecting a 'hotspot' to the internet and talking to it via a radio that's in the same room as being much at all to do with ham radio.  Yeah, your using ham frequencies and a network that is ham related, but if someone was to put up different reflectors and you were to program the hot spots and radios to Itinerant frequencies, it would all work just the same and NOT be ham radio at all.  Not sure if it would be technically legal, but if you decreased the power output below what the FCC requires a license for, I am thinking you are good. 

I will say that there is WAY more traffic on those hot spots any more than any of the analog repeaters across the country.  And I think that's a shame.
I know what goes into installing and maintaining them... God knows I have put up a bunch. But that's part of being a communications field tech.   I do support the idea of bringing new technology into ham radio.  I think the DMR thing is great personally.  But the Internet linking part of it has it's limits.   And relying on the linking portion of it, via the Internet anyway, needs to be looked at closely for stuff that is going to be used for mission critical communications or ARES.  Because the whole idea of EMCOMM is to be able to communicate when other stuff ain't working.  You know...


!!!!WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS!!!!!


God I hate that saying.  But it's the truth in this case. 
But that's why you have battery plants and generators and the like at your communications sites.  And you link them by other means besides the Internet.
Logged

N8AUC

  • Member
  • Posts: 1007
Re: Are ARES and similar groups relying excessively on the internet?
« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2022, 02:56:45 PM »

Because the whole idea of EMCOMM is to be able to communicate when other stuff ain't working.  You know...


!!!!WHEN ALL ELSE FAILS!!!!!


God I hate that saying.  But it's the truth in this case. 
But that's why you have battery plants and generators and the like at your communications sites.  And you link them by other means besides the Internet.

I could not agree more with that statement.
Not only did you hit the nail squarely on the head, you've driven it clean through the board!
Logged

KC3TEC

  • Posts: 150
    • HomeURL
Re: RE: Are ARES and similar groups relying excessively on the internet?
« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2022, 07:59:09 AM »

I have a toolbox at home. I use different tools for different jobs. Saying we should never use the internet is like saying that I can never use my hammer. Yes it's not suitable for some jobs, but it is useful for others. I see the Internet the same way. It's a tool. What if there is need for emergency communication and the Internet is up and running? Do we ignore it because it's not "Classic" ham radio? That's foolish. I would say be able to use simplex, repeaters, Internet, whatever else is available . .

That is precisely the point.
Ham radios and operators are tools for use in an emergency, to rely on only one method is a foolish endeavor.
How good will the internet or even repeater towers be if they are burned up in a forest fire?
Many of us hams do get training in disater communications, and are members of ares and other e response organizations.
As to other posts" politely asking them to leave"
If they are not interfering with operations or placing themselves or anyone else in danger there is absolutely no reason to ask them to leave
( with the possible exception of vloggers at a fatality scene)
As i mentioned in another posts
If they cant be utilized in the communication itself they are still a valuable asset if they can observe and write.
Writing down what they hear and see is often from different angles and they may see or hear something others might miss.

An investigator often has to piece a complicated puzzle together to avoid purely circumstantial evidence.
So an eyewitness is vital to getting a clear picture of the situation.
But i do agree on one point.
If they say that if i cant do radio i wont help! The yes ask them to leave.
Logged

KB8VUL

  • Member
  • Posts: 654
Re: RE: Are ARES and similar groups relying excessively on the internet?
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2022, 07:31:40 AM »

I have a toolbox at home. I use different tools for different jobs. Saying we should never use the internet is like saying that I can never use my hammer. Yes it's not suitable for some jobs, but it is useful for others. I see the Internet the same way. It's a tool. What if there is need for emergency communication and the Internet is up and running? Do we ignore it because it's not "Classic" ham radio? That's foolish. I would say be able to use simplex, repeaters, Internet, whatever else is available . .

That is precisely the point.
Ham radios and operators are tools for use in an emergency, to rely on only one method is a foolish endeavor.
How good will the internet or even repeater towers be if they are burned up in a forest fire?
Many of us hams do get training in disater communications, and are members of ares and other e response organizations.
As to other posts" politely asking them to leave"
If they are not interfering with operations or placing themselves or anyone else in danger there is absolutely no reason to ask them to leave
( with the possible exception of vloggers at a fatality scene)
As i mentioned in another posts
If they cant be utilized in the communication itself they are still a valuable asset if they can observe and write.
Writing down what they hear and see is often from different angles and they may see or hear something others might miss.

An investigator often has to piece a complicated puzzle together to avoid purely circumstantial evidence.
So an eyewitness is vital to getting a clear picture of the situation.
But i do agree on one point.
If they say that if i cant do radio i wont help! The yes ask them to leave.

Well, since I said that, along with others, I will do my level best to indicate why I feel that way.
We are radio people.  Any able bodied person sitting in a shelter can make coffee, setup cots, and the myriad of other non-technical things that are needed to be done at a disaster relief site. But none of them have radios in tow, are fully self contained (if you show up have EVERYTHING YOU NEED down to toilet paper, coffee and food to sustain yourself or don't go) and have a specific ability they don't.

If there is not a specific need for communications where you are at, go find someplace that does need additional assistance with communications.  Or work from home and in your neighborhood providing health and welfare comms for the locals. 
And the universal thing everyone wants during and directly after a disaster is information.  If you have the ability to gather information from other hams, radio monitoring and such , then do that.  Again, the locals that are otherwise cut off from that information will be grateful to know whats going on when their cell phones leave them without. 

Now if you want to leave all the work and personal abilities behind and pour coffee for others, then by all means, do it.  But if you want to contribute your skills, then find a way to do that instead.
Logged

K9CTB

  • Member
  • Posts: 27
Re: Are ARES and similar groups relying excessively on the internet?
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2023, 10:46:47 AM »

Many amateur radio emergency organizations do make use of the internet because there are so many ways to connect to it in a situation.  That said, the more relevant ECOM entities also train to use alternative (radio based, tin cans and string, a kid with a bicycle, etc.) means for getting and disseminating required information in the event internet service is denied.  Remember, the "internet" has become a prime target for bad players who wish to do harm on a regional or national scale.  We've dodged the bullet so to speak, so far ... but that "so far" gives us a little extra time to train.  Serious ECOM operators should use that time wisely IMHO.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Up