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Author Topic: Half Power Amp....  (Read 700 times)

K1QQQ

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Half Power Amp....
« on: January 20, 2023, 12:15:08 PM »

I sit on tube amps...

The writing is on the wall....

Invest in Solid State.

I posted awhile back asking about 'amp best buys' and it seems the Mercury LUX has a good reputation. Soooo  I am on the waiting list for that... I think it is a 1500 watt amp (?) but never know about CW output. (?)  ..OR DIGITAL...


Invest. grrr these things or a few new cars....My hobby has been Amateur Radio since 1964 so....


Not going to sit around and run 1300-1500 watts output ALL THE TIME.


Ameritron ALS-606S  ? Besides it seems Ameritron amps seem not available now (?) they must sell enough of them and they can not be that bad. (?) Often something more common is better than rarer as to parts/repair or ?


OK. If you wanted to 'hang around' using a 500/600 watt amp your choice ? Anything with a good reputation ? I think they make the '606' with a switching power supply or not. (?) Hate to have a bunch of noise generated at the amp level.
 
As said..on the MERCURY LUX waiting list. A backup amp just to get out of the 100w thing.
How about a medium amp just to boost out of the 100 watt level ?

Don't need LEMONS.
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K2AR

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2023, 01:08:49 PM »

SPE Expert amplifiers have three power settings. In the case of my Expert 1.5k, Low (500W), Mid (1000W) and Max (1500W).
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K7JQ

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2023, 01:18:56 PM »

Mid power: Elecraft KPA-500 (500W) or Acom 700s (700W). IMO, stay away from Ameritron SS amps. LUX is 1500W PEP SSB and CW. 800W digital.
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KH6AQ

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2023, 02:25:09 PM »

As K7JQ points out you have three choices in SS amps around 500 watts. I've wondered if this would be a future market for KM3KM to supply. I owned an ALS-600 with linear PS for years and it was my favorite amp. With the Mercury IIIS priced $200 higher than the ALS-606 I'll take the Mercury IIIS. I'm on the waiting list for one. It should operate just fine at 500 watts and its LDMOS dissipation will be close to what it is at 1200 watts. It handles an SWR greater than 1.5:1, which suits my antennas.

The other day NH6V brought over an SPE Expert 1.5K-FA and we the amp though its paces. The LOW, MIX and MAX power settings are nice, however in any mode it objects to an SWR exceeding 1.5:1.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 02:28:23 PM by KH6AQ »
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VE3WI

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2023, 03:45:48 PM »

If you'd like a construction project, hobbypcb sells a set of kits that will make a 500W amp.
https://www.hobbypcb.com/
73
Dave, VE3WI
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HAMHOCK75

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2023, 04:12:54 PM »

If you don't mind a used amplifier, the Icom 2KL 500 watt amplifier normally sells used for about $800-900 with power supply.

https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=598
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KF4HR

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2023, 04:31:53 PM »

You should be fine with the LUX amp.  As for power level, just adjust your drive level for whatever power you require.  No biggie.
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HAMHOCK75

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2023, 05:12:02 PM »

Beware of buying a higher power amplifier and running it at a lower power. As the output power is lowered, the efficiency drops, so a higher power amplifier can actually dissipate as much power in the output devices at less power as when running full power.

Here is the efficiency curve of the Icom 2KL amplifier compared to a class A and class B theoretical amplifier. There are some amplifiers that change the power supply voltage to a lower voltage when running lower power to keep the efficiency up.

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AC2RY

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2023, 07:47:20 PM »

Beware of buying a higher power amplifier and running it at a lower power. As the output power is lowered, the efficiency drops, so a higher power amplifier can actually dissipate as much power in the output devices at less power as when running full power.

Here is the efficiency curve of the Icom 2KL amplifier compared to a class A and class B theoretical amplifier. There are some amplifiers that change the power supply voltage to a lower voltage when running lower power to keep the efficiency up.

You are right - efficiency is lower, but output power is lower too. Thus dissipation will ultimately be lower, but not in linear proportion to the reduction of the output power.
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VE7RF

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2023, 11:16:53 AM »

Beware of buying a higher power amplifier and running it at a lower power. As the output power is lowered, the efficiency drops, so a higher power amplifier can actually dissipate as much power in the output devices at less power as when running full power.

Here is the efficiency curve of the Icom 2KL amplifier compared to a class A and class B theoretical amplifier. There are some amplifiers that change the power supply voltage to a lower voltage when running lower power to keep the efficiency up.

You are right - efficiency is lower, but output power is lower too. Thus dissipation will ultimately be lower, but not in linear proportion to the reduction of the output power.

Eff is everything in any amp, SS or tube. My yaesu FT-1000MK-V is 50 % eff when run at 200w pep out..which drops to just 35%, when run at 1/2 power, or 100w pep out.  Diss is a tiny bit lower  when running 100w pep.

On a side note, the SS amp made in the UK also has 3 x different Vdc's used, depending on PO.  ( it uses a pair of 188's).  Same deal, lower vdc's used, when using lower PO.  Then eff stays high at all times.  The german B26 amp only has one vdc.  The SPE has 3.... for 500/1000/1500.

On my HB tube amps, to keep eff high, when reduced PO required, I can lower the B+ (Model 88, single pole switch, to change taps on the sec of the dahl plate xfmr).  6 x taps to pick from.  (also 6 x taps on the primary). Then by tweaking the drive for correct plate current, plate load Z remains the same, and eff stays the same.

It's too bad they didn't provide for at least one lower vdc on the LUX.  The eff on the LUX with just 500w PO will be way down.  Ditto with 750w PO, but not quite as bad.
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AC2RY

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2023, 02:41:18 PM »



You are right - efficiency is lower, but output power is lower too. Thus dissipation will ultimately be lower, but not in linear proportion to the reduction of the output power.

Eff is everything in any amp, SS or tube. My yaesu FT-1000MK-V is 50 % eff when run at 200w pep out..which drops to just 35%, when run at 1/2 power, or 100w pep out.  Diss is a tiny bit lower  when running 100w pep.

On a side note, the SS amp made in the UK also has 3 x different Vdc's used, depending on PO.  ( it uses a pair of 188's).  Same deal, lower vdc's used, when using lower PO.  Then eff stays high at all times.  The german B26 amp only has one vdc.  The SPE has 3.... for 500/1000/1500.

On my HB tube amps, to keep eff high, when reduced PO required, I can lower the B+ (Model 88, single pole switch, to change taps on the sec of the dahl plate xfmr).  6 x taps to pick from.  (also 6 x taps on the primary). Then by tweaking the drive for correct plate current, plate load Z remains the same, and eff stays the same.

It's too bad they didn't provide for at least one lower vdc on the LUX.  The eff on the LUX with just 500w PO will be way down.  Ditto with 750w PO, but not quite as bad.

When power is reduced, amplifier becomes more linear. If you reduce rail voltage, then you make it less linear again. I would rather trade off efficiency to linearity.
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N4ATS

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2023, 11:05:53 AM »

Love my LUX, all day chit chatting, 1500 watts easy with 18 watts input on SSB. Best bang for the buck but then again I do not use FT-8 BUT fix a TON of amps burned up from it including the expensive big toys...

www.N4ATS.com
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K0UA

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2023, 11:46:15 AM »

Two years and two months now on the Mercury IIIs the majority of it at just a tad less than the 700 watt rating for FT8, Occasionally around 1100 for SSB and maybe a bit more than 900 on CW, and she is still running fine. It has been a true joy to own and operate.
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73  James K0UA

K6JH

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2023, 10:13:13 PM »

Two years and two months now on the Mercury IIIs the majority of it at just a tad less than the 700 watt rating for FT8, Occasionally around 1100 for SSB and maybe a bit more than 900 on CW, and she is still running fine. It has been a true joy to own and operate.


Does the power actually help that much on FT8?

I have found that some others do not have as low a noise floor as I do, and an amp might help in those situations. Although there are others that just seem to be selective about returning a call from 6-land, no matter how strong.
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73
Jim K6JH

K0UA

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Re: Half Power Amp....
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2023, 05:02:27 AM »

Two years and two months now on the Mercury IIIs the majority of it at just a tad less than the 700 watt rating for FT8, Occasionally around 1100 for SSB and maybe a bit more than 900 on CW, and she is still running fine. It has been a true joy to own and operate.


Does the power actually help that much on FT8?

I have found that some others do not have as low a noise floor as I do, and an amp might help in those situations. Although there are others that just seem to be selective about returning a call from 6-land, no matter how strong.

When the propagation path is symmetrical and good, it does not help at all. When the propagation path is asymmetrical and poor, it helps tremendously. It is the difference in making the contact and not making the contact.

 I have discovered with the help of FT8, that just because you hear a station very strongly does NOT mean he can hear you at all. MOST stations in the Middle East cannot hear very well, and MANY in Asia. Excluding JA of course. There is never a shortage of JA stations to work on any band. :) .  And you don't need to call them, they will call you!
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73  James K0UA
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