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Author Topic: Tough times for True Blue  (Read 2613 times)

WO7R

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Tough times for True Blue
« on: January 22, 2023, 01:19:30 PM »

This is a surprise.   It tells its own story.

https://www.tbdxc.net/

No idea what comes next.
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KJ4Z

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2023, 01:49:38 PM »

The post mentions TN8K as a sort of breaking point; specifically, that many TBDXC members worked them only on FT8.

From my modest station in the PNW, I found TN8K even easier to work on CW than on FT8.  I don't think I ever needed more than 3 calls on the 4 bands I worked them on CW.  I expect that they would have been easy on other bands if I had bothered trying.  It certainly would seem that for most stations, working them exclusively on FT8 was an expression of preference rather than necessity.  Given that reality, it does seem like TBDXC was facing an uphill battle.
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K1VSK

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2023, 02:31:00 PM »

No one needs a cloud club to be a traditional DX’er not using artificial modes
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K0UA

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2023, 02:48:18 PM »

True Blue DXers Club has closed down.


21 January 2023

 

It is with great sadness that I have to announce my decision to bring the TBDXC experience to a close.

This follows the resignation of our President and Marathon Manager Peter DL3NAA, triggered by yet another “scandal” about TBDXC members massively engaging in FT8 activity.

This problem emerged already more than one year ago. Under pressure from more “purist” members, and in order to maintain the Club’s credibility, I wrote to the membership reminding what the Club stands for and asking those members who do engage in FT8 DXing to consider resigning. Many did, but this letter of mine generated heated and at times vicious debate on various forums, and a lot of feedback – some positive and some very negative - to me personally.

Problem solved?

No. A check on Clublog in November 2022 showed that the situation hadn’t changed. As a result, you will remember receiving another email making the same points as the previous one. More expressions of support and a little criticism, on the one hand, and more resignations.

Problem solved?

No. A check of the recent TN8K leaderboards shows that as much as one third of the TBDXC members who worked the excellent DXpedition did so on FT8, with quite a few members ONLY working TN8K on FT8 - no CW or SSB!

At this stage, it is abundantly clear to me that I have failed. My initial idea of an organised push back against the exploding digital activity may have been good in theory, but in reality:

a)    The TBDXC has failed to make the slightest difference in levels of activity. The recent and very welcome return of CW and SSB traffic appears due to improved propagation conditions and in no way linked to our promotional activity.

b)    The TBDXC has been largely ignored by its own members. Only two awards, for instance, were issued during a four-year period. Out of a membership of nearly 2,000, in another example, only about 350 submitted logs for the Marathon during two years, despite numerous, repeated calls to do so even if one doesn’t participate competitively – just to show support. And,

c)    What I find most extraordinary, many DXers evidently signed up just to be in a Club. They have not read, or not understood, they don’t care or they just plainly ignore the very foundation, the reason for the Club to exist, and happily work DX with automated digital modes. How is that possible, I honestly do not know. The Club is the laughing stock of anybody who cares to check who works what on what mode.

This is a sign of personal failure for me, and a betrayal to the majority of members who are passionate about the cause and feel good to be in the company of like-minded people.

I did not create the TBDXC to be a police organisation and never had any intention to singling out “offenders” or taking actions like issuing warnings or terminating membership. This is odious, extremely time consuming, and, for an informal association without even a formal membership, not even legal.

I am therefore left with no alternative but to close down the True Blue DXers Club.

A further reason of intense pain is that the demise of the Club will bring an end to the DX Ultra-Marathon – an initiative very much enjoyed by hundreds of DXers for the last two years. 2023 looked promising already, but I don’t see how this initiative could go ahead separate from the existence of the Club. This was indeed a good idea, with plenty of upscale potential, and perhaps someone will want to run it independently in the future.

In signing off, I would like to express my gratitude to those few souls who, during these four years, offered time, work, ideas and enthusiasm and helped me keeping the Club alive, in particular Petr OK1RP, Thomas DK3DUA and Peter DL3NAA.

But especially, I want to say a sincere THANK YOU to all of you – and you are many more than you think after reading this - who truly understood and believed in the ideas behind the True Blue DXers Club.

Long live CW and SSB, long live True Blue DXing!


73 Pete MM0TWX
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73  James K0UA

KD8MJR

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2023, 03:18:02 PM »

I never joined, I do not need a group of people to Validate my knowledge that FT8 and it's derivatives are just Computers talking to each other with out the need for an operator.  I have no problems with it other than the fact that it should never have been included in the DXCC Mixed award.  If it was not for this then some of the recent expeditions would have carried better equipment rather than rely on the FT8 crutch.

It kind of boggles the mind that TN8K would be the one that got so many TBDXC members to jump ship.  Those guys had super strong signals and seemingly made large amount of contacts all over the globe without FT8.
Also it's not like it was a rare one or that it had not been activated several times before.  So it must be those good old greeny points that they could not resist.

 If I had been told this happened during FT8WW then it would not have been a surprise but TN8K is a sign of pure greed for bandfills etc.
I am sad that the group is gone but I think it changes nothing about how the way the vast majority of Hams view these contacts.
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KC0W

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2023, 03:38:35 PM »

Long live CW and SSB,

 At least he was half correct.

           Tom KH0/KC0W
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AI5BC

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2023, 04:32:58 PM »

Yep, proves hams are not a diverse and inclusive group. Cannot even get along with themselves.
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KD8MJR

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2023, 06:20:25 PM »

Yep, proves hams are not a diverse and inclusive group. Cannot even get along with themselves.
I think i have had enough diverse and Inclusive woke stuff over the last 10 years to last for a lifetime.
Are we going to start having nonbinary bands?
That is something I could actually root for.
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K2FW

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2023, 12:32:37 PM »

I have no problems with it other than the fact that it should never have been included in the DXCC Mixed award.  If it was not for this then some of the recent expeditions would have carried better equipment rather than rely on the FT8 crutch.
And that has been my contention all along.  However, the ARRL went for the money rather than keeping the integrity of the program.
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KD8MJR

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2023, 01:12:18 PM »

I have no problems with it other than the fact that it should never have been included in the DXCC Mixed award.  If it was not for this then some of the recent expeditions would have carried better equipment rather than rely on the FT8 crutch.
And that has been my contention all along.  However, the ARRL went for the money rather than keeping the integrity of the program.

Exactly, it has always been about the Money.  The integrity of the Awards is secondary.
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VE3NEA

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2023, 02:13:20 PM »

If this is about the money, why don't they create two awards, one for the regular modes and another for the semi-automatic modes? I, for one, would pursue both, and would pay for both.
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US5WE

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2023, 02:26:05 PM »

One Marathon less - excellent news!  ;D
This stuff is awful especially on 6 meters where DX openings are too short to wait until the Marathon particiipants will make their annual QSOs with the entity heard here once in several years.
Apropos DXCC awards.
There are separate mode CW DXCC, PHONE DXCC, DIGITAL DXCC  (the one I've never applied for) and one can work them all on CW(-P5) and phone, as I did, without FT8.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2023, 02:31:52 PM by US5WE »
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DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone) 10BDXCC (160-6m), 10BWAZ(160-6m),
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KD8MJR

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2023, 03:35:19 PM »

If this is about the money, why don't they create two awards, one for the regular modes and another for the semi-automatic modes? I, for one, would pursue both, and would pay for both.
Because the FT Award would be worthless in the eyes of most hams and no one would pursue it anyway.

The way they have it setup now, the older DXers that are living in HOA's can still fork over their cash on contacts they made with FT8 while still pursuing the same HR #1 plaque that hams before them had to work their butts off to get.
IOU no older Ham in an HOA would start over from scratch trying to get 340 Entities using FT8.  He would never live that long but if he can combine it with his current numbers and keep adding more activation's like Crozet and Bouvet then he has a chance.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2023, 03:45:47 PM by KD8MJR »
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W2IRT

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2023, 03:56:29 PM »

If this is about the money, why don't they create two awards, one for the regular modes and another for the semi-automatic modes? I, for one, would pursue both, and would pay for both.
Because the FT Award would be worthless in the eyes of most hams and no one would pursue it anyway.

The way they have it setup now, the older DXers that are living in HOA's can still fork over their cash on contacts they made with FT8 while still pursuing the same HR plaque that hams before them had to work their butts off to get.
IOU no older Ham in an HOA would start over from scratch trying to get 331 Entities using FT8.

I heard rumblings in the last two years of splitting the Digital DXCC award. A few years ago the award was RTTY, but in included PSK, the early FT modes, JT65/JT9, and so on. Then the League combined all of them together and it was called the DXCC Digital Award, with newer certificates reflecting that change. IIRC, the proposed change would have kept RTTY as a separate award from all the other digital modes, but the plan was quickly abandoned.

I'm fine with it as-is, but if I could have one thing it would be to get on the Digital Honor Roll exclusively with RTTY. I would most definitely not start pursuing HR all over again with the new modes. It would almost certainly be unattainable in my lifetime anyway!
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Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

KE4KY

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2023, 06:43:20 AM »


The way they have it setup now, the older DXers that are living in HOA's can still fork over their cash on contacts they made with FT8 while still pursuing the same HR #1 plaque that hams before them had to work their butts off to get.




All summed up by this:

Crozet Island, the 3rd most wanted entity was on the air and making contacts, yet a few people are looking for a reason to complain about it. Go figure....
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 07:00:37 AM by KE4KY »
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Glenn KE4KY - Amateur Radio since 1975; Definitely, one of the deserving...
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