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Author Topic: Tough times for True Blue  (Read 2616 times)

WO7R

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #120 on: January 30, 2023, 03:26:25 PM »

Quote
also when they get to the SE corner of the island and see that vertical mountain to NA in their way

A while back, maybe a year ago, I brought this up.  The expedition leader actually posted here and said two noteworthy things.

1.  They had done the terrain analysis and they said they would clear the mountain between them and NA well enough.  They posted the analysis in that thread.

2.  There was apparently an operation from there before that everyone but them had forgotten about.  I certainly only remember operations from the Norwegian outpost, but those are now forbidden.  Apparently, they checked out what did and didn't happen with that one.

Well, the proof will be in the pudding.  I think you're right that operational days may be quite limited compared to the plan.  Something similar happened to the South Sandwich team who had to bail several days early on account of bad weather.  They could easily have trouble on both sides of the schedule.

But, if their homework is accurate, they at least should have less difficulty with mountains blocking transmissions than heretofore seen from the "traditional" location.
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N0UN

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #121 on: January 30, 2023, 03:29:09 PM »


Sure, things change I get it.  Speaking of change - I got a feeling there's going to be some surprised Ops when Bouvet cuts down from 22 days on the island to somewhere around 14 (maybe 12 operational) and also when they get to the SE corner of the island and see that vertical mountain to NA in their way -  things will again, change.  Remember, February is only 28 days.  Here's a few pics of Camp Fie and the 400-700 Meter vertical "curtain" to North America "short path".

Bouvet Pic #1

Bouvet Pic #2

Bouvet Pic #3


“You must welcome change as the rule, but not as your ruler.”

N0UN

I have been worried about the location from day one and everyone keeps on saying don't worry, they will be strong.  I have a knot in my stomach because I have a feeling they will barely be audible in parts of NA.
You guys near to the West Coast will probably have some luck going long Path.

Not only propagation, a vertical mountain, but something I was reminded of today with a Ham mariner:

"they've been beat to hell the last two plus weeks at sea on what most would call a small vessel.  They haven't been able to walk around the deck and they have eaten small meals so they don't vomit up big meals. There's been no real exercise. They will not have "land legs" for a couple days IF THEY CAN LAND. The first couple days on land using their body, they will be exceptionally weak, yet this is the time they will have to unload thousands of pounds of equipment, with dozens and dozens of zodiac trips after having reduced appetites and no exercise.  They are not Marines or Navy Seals.  The water is at or near freezing. The constant winds will make a man lose his mind."

N0UN

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W4AMP

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #122 on: January 30, 2023, 03:31:53 PM »

0% NA Phone & 8% NA CW

1,743 NA CW Q's divided by 21,796 total Q's = 7.99% of total Q's were NA CW.

Or in other words - 92% were something "other than" NA CW Q's and 0% were NA Phone.

For a DX operation that stated:

CW and SSB will be the priority. FT8 will be mostly for low bands if we can install an 80m dipole, and for far away areas (US West coast mainly)"

I'd say that's "disappointing", at a minimum.

1. If you don't like FT8, then don't use it. But please stop whining about it and everyone else who uses it.
2. It is difficult to take you seriously in these discussions because you acknowledge neither the legal limitations nor the real-world conditions that led to many of the decisions that you criticize, all of which has been well-chronicled here and on other sites such as DX World.
3. If you're going to make a real argument, please tell us how eschewing FT8 in favor of more CW and SSB would have facilitated more ATNOs, which was the stated goal of this operation. Please keep in mind that Thierry tells us that signals were too weak for even CW much of the time.

Pot, meet kettle. ::)
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W2IRT

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #123 on: January 30, 2023, 03:39:51 PM »

I'm definitely a bit concerned about the issues involving their takeoff angle, especially combined with my own similar issue in their direction. But with that said I think most well-built stations on the east coast will have a better than average shot on many bands, especially 20 and up. Lowbands will be problematic for many reasons, not the least of which is the short period of mutual darkness to a part of the world with a crap ton of active DXers with big stations.

But what I think might be the saving grace, despite the mountain to their northwest, is the relatively short distance to Zone 5, meaning expected takeoff angles will be closer to 10° than 5, and the fact the path is non-polar, so no auroral oval attenuation. It's certainly not perfect, and JA and VK will do much better than North America Zones 4 and 5, but I think most of us will be able to put at least 4 and maybe 5 new bands in the log, assuming they can get everything going and stay at least 10-12 days.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

W2IRT

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #124 on: January 30, 2023, 04:01:14 PM »

1,743 NA CW Q's divided by 21,796 total Q's = 7.99% of total Q's were NA CW.
Or in other words - 92% were something "other than" NA CW Q's and 0% were NA Phone.

Thierry made a grand total of 6112 contacts with all of North America. 28.5% of those contacts were in CW. I consider that to be quite respectable given the crappy propagation and the weak signals his low antennas and power afforded him. If he'd insisted on using SSB there'd be a whole lot of angry DXers who would have never heard him, let alone gotten in the log. In this case, Mr. Spock had the right of it: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few—or the one.

If I'd been a high-dollar ahead-of-time donor I would be very happy that he chose to maximize the chances of as many people as possible getting in the log at least once. For the #3 DXCC entity on the list, you do what ya gotta do. Although with that said, I wish he'd spent more time calling for North America exclusively. And on FT8, software enforces a directed CQ if you know how to use it.

And who knows, maybe he'll get re-authorized to get back on HF, and condx might allow some 10-12-15m operation and perhaps a bit of HF SSB. That sunspot group that gave us an SFI of 248 last week will rotate back around in another three weeks, after all.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

KD8MJR

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #125 on: January 30, 2023, 08:00:31 PM »


Not only propagation, a vertical mountain, but something I was reminded of today with a Ham mariner:

"they've been beat to hell the last two plus weeks at sea on what most would call a small vessel.  They haven't been able to walk around the deck and they have eaten small meals so they don't vomit up big meals. There's been no real exercise. They will not have "land legs" for a couple days IF THEY CAN LAND. The first couple days on land using their body, they will be exceptionally weak, yet this is the time they will have to unload thousands of pounds of equipment, with dozens and dozens of zodiac trips after having reduced appetites and no exercise.  They are not Marines or Navy Seals.  The water is at or near freezing. The constant winds will make a man lose his mind."

N0UN

Well I am not feeling any better after reading that ;D
I think the first team had the right idea.  You need those helicopters to carry the load!  Man they were so close and then engine failure.
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KC0W

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #126 on: January 30, 2023, 09:18:25 PM »

"they've been beat to hell the last two plus weeks at sea on what most would call a small vessel.  They haven't been able to walk around the deck and they have eaten small meals so they don't vomit up big meals. There's been no real exercise. They will not have "land legs" for a couple days


 I can't imagine sailing in the treacherous seas the Bouvet team has been enduring for the past 2 weeks. They are better people than me.

 I took a mail ship to St. Helena island back in 2007 which departed form Cape Town, South Africa. Immediately after leaving the Cape Town harbor the mail ship struck a whale which severed off one of the ships stabilizers. The ships captain continued along with the voyage due to St. Helena running dangerously low on food supplies which the mail ship was to re-supply. What was initially supposed to be a 6 day voyage ended up being a 9 day voyage on the proverbial "cork in the ocean". It was absolutely horrendous. I barfed for two days straight, no joke. Since this was a working mail ship creature comforts were few & far between. Breakfast consisted of a single croissant and some raspberry jam. By the 4th day they were out of raspberry jam. The entire contents of "Lunch" and "dinner" (quotes added for emphasis) could fit in a teacup..............Blah, blah, blah, not a fun journey.


                                                                                           Tom KH0/KC0W   

                       
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KC0W

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #127 on: January 30, 2023, 10:13:22 PM »

I can't imagine sailing in the treacherous seas                       

 Waaaaaaay off topic, but:

 Do ships sail IN the sea or ON the sea? Perhaps one of you cunning linguists can school me in 2nd grade written English.
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W2IRT

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #128 on: January 30, 2023, 10:47:37 PM »

I can't imagine sailing in the treacherous seas                       

 Waaaaaaay off topic, but:

 Do ships sail IN the sea or ON the sea? Perhaps one of you cunning linguists can school me in 2nd grade written English.

Reminds me of a rather famous George Carlin routine on flying in-vs-on the plane, in this rather NSFW video clip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPy5Ikn7dw&t=186s.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

K4HB

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #129 on: January 31, 2023, 04:32:30 AM »

Reminds me of a rather famous George Carlin routine on flying in-vs-on the plane,

Oh yeah, I've heard of him... He's the guy who said, "You don't take a **** you leave one."
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