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Author Topic: Tough times for True Blue  (Read 2618 times)

N5INP

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2023, 08:34:32 AM »

They also travel at night, in the rain, and sometimes in the snow; so be sure to be extra careful if you encounter one. Did you know that there’s also a small battery which powers the buggies’ headlights? It’s all powered by a rechargeable battery which is nestled below the driver’s seat and situated on the exterior.

LOL - so go far enough back in time and they would have had an oil or candle lantern headlight. Why did they switch to modern rechargeable battery power light. Hmmm ...

Go farther. If a rechargeable light is OK - why not an electric car?
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N0UN

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2023, 09:37:03 AM »

You folks that like that *lazy, mindless automated computer software scripted text messaging app so much - why don't you put your money where your pieholes are and donate your paddles, straight keys and microphones over to those that horse & buggy operators that can use them?

I'm good on QRZ - you can send them to me, especially your Yaesu M-1 Reference Mic's.  I'll make sure to disperse all of them properly.

:)

N0UN

There's "the Deserving", and then there's "the *Lazy"
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K0UA

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2023, 09:40:55 AM »

You folks that like that *lazy, mindless automated computer software scripted text messaging app so much - why don't you put your money where your pieholes are and donate your paddles, straight keys and microphones over to those that horse & buggy operators that can use them?

I'm good on QRZ - you can send them to me, especially your Yaesu M-1 Reference Mic's.  I'll make sure to disperse all of them properly.

:)

N0UN

There's "the Deserving", and then there's "the *Lazy"

Many people still enjoy riding horses, that doesn't mean they are going to ride them to work.  Stick that in YOUR "piehole".
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73  James K0UA

N0UN

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2023, 09:53:34 AM »

You folks that like that *lazy, mindless automated computer software scripted text messaging app so much - why don't you put your money where your pieholes are and donate your paddles, straight keys and microphones over to those that horse & buggy operators that can use them?

I'm good on QRZ - you can send them to me, especially your Yaesu M-1 Reference Mic's.  I'll make sure to disperse all of them properly.

 :)

N0UN

There's "the Deserving", and then there's "the *Lazy"

Many people still enjoy riding horses, that doesn't mean they are going to ride them to work.  Stick that in YOUR "piehole".

tsk, tsk, are you triggered?



N0UN (ibtl)
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KJ4Z

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2023, 10:01:46 AM »

As a modest station, I've benefited from zigging while others zag.  I hopped on the FT8 thing at the very beginning, and it was like a secret club where the DX was easy and confirmations were instant.  The sub-bands weren't crowded and you didn't need a lot of power.  I worked (and confirmed) 160 DXCC in a single season running 500 watts to an inverted L with no receive antenna.  But lately, the watering holes have been filling up, competition is increasing, and also I've been finding I am sitting at the FT8 console bored a lot.  A lot.

So with the recent return of sunspots and DXpeditions, I've been rediscovering my love of CW.  While everyone's busy clobbering each other over in the FT8 watering holes, the CW slots have been easier than ever to pick up.  I have some new local noise sources I'm struggling to overcome, but it is fun to actually hear the DX again, to hear the sounds of shortwave radio (yes, even the local noise), and to have to engage the brain slightly by observing the bandscope, moving my dial around a bit, etc.  I would not be surprised if, as the solar cycle progresses and the newness of FT8 wears off, people get bored and come back to CW (and maybe phone, but I couldn't care less about that mode).  Maybe by then I'll have moved on yet again to wherever the DX is easy and fun.  It is supposed to be fun, right?
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N5INP

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2023, 10:04:59 AM »

It is supposed to be fun, right?

Exactly right.

Do what you enjoy with the rules set forth by the FCC for this hobby. That's all that each person should worry about.
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N0UN

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2023, 10:24:25 AM »

As a modest station, I've benefited from zigging while others zag.  I hopped on the FT8 thing at the very beginning, and it was like a secret club where the DX was easy and confirmations were instant.  The sub-bands weren't crowded and you didn't need a lot of power.  I worked (and confirmed) 160 DXCC in a single season running 500 watts to an inverted L with no receive antenna.  But lately, the watering holes have been filling up, competition is increasing, and also I've been finding I am sitting at the FT8 console bored a lot.  A lot.

So with the recent return of sunspots and DXpeditions, I've been rediscovering my love of CW.  While everyone's busy clobbering each other over in the FT8 watering holes, the CW slots have been easier than ever to pick up.  I have some new local noise sources I'm struggling to overcome, but it is fun to actually hear the DX again, to hear the sounds of shortwave radio (yes, even the local noise), and to have to engage the brain slightly by observing the bandscope, moving my dial around a bit, etc.  I would not be surprised if, as the solar cycle progresses and the newness of FT8 wears off, people get bored and come back to CW (and maybe phone, but I couldn't care less about that mode).  Maybe by then I'll have moved on yet again to wherever the DX is easy and fun.  It is supposed to be fun, right?

The watering holes are for the lazy.  And for collecting money.  Nothing more.

There's sure no communicating going on.  There may be a few folks clicking their mouse every once in a while, but that's about it.

For a hobby firmly based on COMMUNICATING, it sure has changed.

Like everybody else I had to see what it was about.  Made a couple FT8 contacts back in 2017 when it was a shiny object, but I came to my senses quickly.

Glad to see you're back in the world of the living, human modes!

N0UN
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KD8MJR

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2023, 11:12:19 AM »

Quote
No they don't but if they get together and say they wanted it removed from the DXCC mixed award

I would love to see the PSC's reaction to this "request." They'd be laughing themselves silly. A handful of old timers with their heads firmly buried up their antenna ports vs the thousands of new (and not-so-new) DXers having fun, earning—and paying for—their DXCC awards, putting some form of life on the bands, and so on.

Sorry for the delay, I saw the length of the post and just assumed the forums Novel writer had been at work again.

Your whole premise is based on the assumption that the majority of FT8 users are actually spending a bunch of money.   I think 80% of them are just clicking on any new entity they see and building up their log book.
I doubt they even want anything to do with the ARRL because it costs money.   Now you do have that other 20% who are old well known Hams living in HOAs and IMHO used their contacts within the organization to  lobby for FT8 to be included in the Mixed Awards and yes they do fork over some money every year.

I think the bulk of operators and ARRL members do not use FT8.  And these are the same people who fund DXpeditions and this hobby in general and I bet if they let their voices be heard things might change.
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KF0QS

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2023, 11:29:46 AM »

Quote
Go farther. If a rechargeable light is OK - why not an electric car?

I used to live in an area that had a significant Amish population and I was told that state law required them to have the electric lights, or they were not allowed to drive their buggies on the highways.  So it's just a concession they had to make to modernity, while retaining as much of their lifestyle as possible.

With regard to this "FT8" isn't real radio (not sure if I'm characterizing that accurately, but I think it's close enough), I agree with those on here who say ham radio is a hobby and people should get to do what the law and technology allows.  One man's "meat" is another man's poison, after all. 

The hobby will evolve naturally, and people will shift their operating habits as new developments and new sunspots arise.  I certainly wouldn't want to be the person disparaging someone else's operating habits and chasing them out of the hobby (which I have heard sometimes happens on 2 meter repeaters).

Finally, let's be real.  Though I agree that working rare DX in a pileup takes a degree of skill (mainly in finding the opening to get them to hear your call), is it really that spectacular to send your call, and then "TU 5NN"?  Are we really "communicating" at that point?  I get why that's the way most DX'ing has evolved but is it THAT different from finding the opening on FT8 for your signal?

For the record, I am a lifelong CW enthusiast and have 235 countries confirmed, all on CW.  I have frequent CW QSO's that last more than an hour (many SKCC folks love me for being able to converse with a straight key for that long, though I prefer my paddle).  Lately, I have noticed that some of the DX is only available on FT8 and I have worked them on FT8 (if I were to report my "mixed" total, I have 237 confirmed).  I don't think FT8 is as much fun as CW (though it has its moments) but what can you do if the DX is only on FT8?

So I say lighten up on the FT8 ops (after all, that mode is amazing for weak signals).  None of the rest of us are required to get on there, and given time, the FT8 ops may decide to try another mode in this great hobby of ours.

73's to all.
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K7JQ

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #54 on: January 26, 2023, 12:09:45 PM »

The sad thing is that the TBDXC founder, Pete, regards its demise as a "personal failure"...nope, not his fault! The real failures are those who joined up with a blatant disregard for the intended purpose/agenda of the club. His intentions were noble...the members' were not.

I joined a local *contest* club for the exclusive promotion and enhancement of radio sport, not interested in EMCOMM, satellite, moon bounce, SOTA, POTA, or any other endeavor. If someone posts something on the club reflector like "TN8K on 14.032", one of the moderators would usually chime in and, in a diplomatic way, advise that such posts are discouraged. And rightly so...go join a DX club.

Any club that is formed with a specific agenda, and not *general purpose*, joining up should obligate one to adhere to its policies. Not doing so just shows what kind of person they are, and fouls things up for the other dedicated members.
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KD8MJR

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #55 on: January 26, 2023, 12:31:40 PM »

It is supposed to be fun, right?

It's supposed to be about honing your skills to be useful at communicating information to other people.  At least when I got into it that was the emphasis and that was why most of the competitions involved exchanging some data like a number or grid location info so that you could prove that if the world went to the crapper you would be a valuable communication post for keeping your community in touch with the outside world.

If you wanted the top awards it was not supposed to be fun, it was meant to be extremely challenging with a great feeling of satisfaction if you got to the end.  Unless your idea of Fun is spending 5 hours every day for a week trying to bust through a pileup for an ATNO.

Today everyone wants a prize and everyone wants one now.  Once they get it they shove it in the closet and move onto the next shinny thing.

Secondly your computer will most likely be of zero use after a major catastrophe and even if it was an FT8 operators users mouse clicking skills are not going to be all that useful in delivering information.

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KJ4Z

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2023, 12:44:35 PM »

If you wanted the top awards it was not supposed to be fun

With this philosophy, I wish you all the best in attracting new operators to your salt mine.
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W5HVV

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #57 on: January 26, 2023, 01:06:40 PM »

Your whole premise is based on the assumption that the majority of FT8 users are actually spending a bunch of money.   I think 80% of them are just clicking on any new entity they see and building up their log book.
I doubt they even want anything to do with the ARRL because it costs money.   Now you do have that other 20% who are old well known Hams living in HOAs and IMHO used their contacts within the organization to  lobby for FT8 to be included in the Mixed Awards and yes they do fork over some money every year.
I think the bulk of operators and ARRL members do not use FT8.  And these are the same people who fund DXpeditions and this hobby in general and I bet if they let their voices be heard things might change.

Out of curiosity, do you have any data to back up any of these claims?

FWIW, I wrote a script to take the list of donors from FT8WW's website (of which there are several hundred, with plenty of "big names" included) and cross-check it against ClubLog. It turns out that the majority of those individuals worked him on FT8 and CW. A smaller minority worked him on FT8 only, and an even smaller minority worked him on CW only. To me, this exercise suggests that many serious DXers (and actual donors) are at least willing to take the pragmatic approach ("work the DX how the DX wants to be worked") to work a rare DX entity, even if doing so involves using that "lazy computer text messaging" or whatever you guys are calling it. :)

Secondly your computer will most likely be of zero use after a major catastrophe and even if it was an FT8 operators users mouse clicking skills are not going to be all that useful in delivering information.

Different modes of communications were designed with different purposes in mind. You probably wouldn't use FT* in an emergency situation given its low bit rate, but it's not hard to imagine other modes (or bands) that you also likely wouldn't use. That doesn't invalidate them as tools.

Aside from that, are you really insinuating that FT* users can't talk into a microphone or fire up a keyer? Seems like a real stretch of an argument to me...

If you wanted the top awards it was not supposed to be fun, it was meant to be extremely challenging with a great feeling of satisfaction if you got to the end.

Nah, the thrill of the chase is fun. Frustrating at times, yes, but ultimately fun and rewarding. That's part of what attracted me to HF and DXing as a teenager. If you find yourself not enjoying what is supposed to be a *hobby*, maybe you should look for other things to do.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 01:21:20 PM by W5HVV »
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K4HB

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2023, 01:13:53 PM »

Perhaps this happened back in the day -

"It is with great sadness that I must bring the True Blue Horse and Buggy Club to and end.

And later on with the passage of time, environmentalists are traveling all over the world in their private jets to bring our attention to the carbon footprint that is out of control. Some are suggesting electric cars, but our power grid is struggling to stay afloat of the demand we have now. Some suggest going back to horse and buggy, but the most progressive among them said, "C'mom man, methane gas from equine flatulence is as bad if not worse than bovine flatulence." Now we're in a quandary about what to do. The lesser of the evils seems to be horse and buggy, SSB, CW, & RTTY.
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K7JQ

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Re: Tough times for True Blue
« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2023, 01:22:26 PM »


If you wanted the top awards it was not supposed to be fun, it was meant to be extremely challenging with a great feeling of satisfaction


Hobbies are supposed to be something you *want* to do, not *have* to do. As much as I love contesting as a challenging endeavor and get great satisfaction meeting or exceeding my goals, I certainly wouldn't do it if I wasn't having fun. Otherwise, I wouldn't have spent thousands of dollars on my station, and just go outside and trim the bushes (which is not fun) ;).
 
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