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Author Topic: P5  (Read 1976 times)

VK3YP

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Re: P5
« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2023, 04:03:04 PM »

Hi Ken,

You guys definitely braved some tough conditions to land on bouvet but as discussed on these forums you guys could have worked way more QSO's for the Invesment and effort made towards this operation.

The weight and amount of equipment that was specified for this operation needed nothing short of a barge with a crane to get onto the island.

It should have been light weight operation with small 2KW petrol generators all along. The 130KG+ Diesel gensets was not a good idea. It was lucky that you even had one Honda EU22i genset and some petrol.

You probably could have setup at least 3 stations with a bare minimum setup of a small 10 watt radio (KX3), JUMA PA1000 LDMOS low drive amplifier (5.5kg), bandpass filters, 2KW petrol gensets (x 3) and verticals. And a Laptop with a GPS USB Receiver for FT8 time sync.

73, John VK3YP

A lot of guessing here Ed without you knowing any of the details why we cut short the DXped. Do you know the loading capacity of our "small" Milpro zodiak? 1300 kg. And we had 2 large zodiaks and one smaller one. Already from the beginning which you can see on our webside did we envision a stepwise camp build up consisting of 4 steps. With the smallest one being 1500 kg of equipment. Obviuosly the reason for developing a 4 step plan was because we knew we could not gurantee a single step approach like 3Y0Z and 3Y0I. All this info was well known in advance before we went there. The last day when we disassembled the camp we moved roughly 1700 kg of equipment and personell in 5h over a distance of roughly 1,2 km including 150m on beach and 200m in terrain. On Bouvetøya it is all about weather windows independent whether you go with zodiac or helicopter (waves or fog). During 15 days we could only see the peak Olavtoppen once, that was the last day when we pulled out. Good luck with the Heli -  you should bring a zodiak as well.

For the FT8 thing. We did not plan to do FT8, that is the simple reason why we did not bring a sync device. We did have FT8 capability in the K3S though, so later on when we decided to try FT8 , of course our computers where out of sync.

And, ehammers can go ask yourself if anyone is willing to sign on a vessel contract without knowing that they are able to raise the funds needed. If you want to work the DX - donate upfront or stop complaining why the rare ones are not activated.


73 Ken
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 04:05:51 PM by VK3YP »
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K1VSK

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Re: P5
« Reply #61 on: February 28, 2023, 05:45:42 PM »

Ha, Nice try.  I have a 10 meter plus off-shore certification.  Have had it now - with 5 year renewals for 15 years.  I do my certifying at their Newport RI partner location since the UK is a hard one to go to for the multi day certifications.

Ed  N1UR
Used to sail out of Newport YC. Is there some reason you didn’t answer my question?
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KC0W

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Re: P5
« Reply #62 on: February 28, 2023, 09:44:43 PM »

with a bare minimum setup of a small 10 watt radio (KX3), JUMA PA1000 LDMOS low drive amplifier (5.5kg)

 I'm glad someone else sees the value of using the KX3/Juma combination.

 

                                        Tom KH0/KC0W       
« Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 09:53:48 PM by KC0W »
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US5WE

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Re: P5
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2023, 12:35:40 AM »

I'm glad someone else sees the value of using the KX3/Juma combination.
                                        Tom KH0/KC0W     
My friend Nick D2UY (UT6UY) was trying to purchase JUMA for use in Angola, but got the answer from OH company that they have none.
So this option is not available anymore.
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UARL Technical and VHF Committies
DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone) 10BDXCC (160-6m), 10BWAZ(160-6m),
ARRL field checker.

VK3YP

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Re: P5
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2023, 01:22:46 AM »

For the $5 USD PayPal D2UY is asking for LOTW confirmations he could probably get OH to build him a gold plated Juma Amp 🤣

I'm glad someone else sees the value of using the KX3/Juma combination.
                                        Tom KH0/KC0W     
My friend Nick D2UY (UT6UY) was trying to purchase JUMA for use in Angola, but got the answer from OH company that they have none.
So this option is not available anymore.
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N1UR

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Re: P5
« Reply #65 on: March 01, 2023, 03:13:20 AM »

K1VSK - I answered your question.

Ed  N1UR
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KD6VXI

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Re: P5
« Reply #66 on: March 01, 2023, 03:20:06 AM »

As DXpeditiins go, this one was just above failure.  A lot of shortcomings have been noted.  And duly noted, there is tons to be learned here.

The equipment brought was just rediculous.  As another stated, a single generator per station would have been much better.  A generator runs at its most efficient the more its loaded.  Bring huge generators that will be run at 20 percent load is just dumb.  And screams someone who spec'ed power for this expedition just got it wrong.

Zodiaks, suits, helicopters......  Did anyone planning this one have prior experience with sub arctic landings?  It would appear not.  And if they did, why did nobody else listen?

I mean, prior operators moved during the dxpediyion, on 3Y, by themselves, so they could make contacts to North America.

I had a half hour window and never heard them.  I'm by no means a big gun but I expected at least one decode.  And my 850 was running 24x7.

Future expeditions need to take note of the failures noted on this one.  So they don't make the same mistakes.

Small radios and large gain ldmos high efficiency amps are key here.  Generators sized appropriately are key.  An actual landing plan is key.

And let's hope that major donators, equipment manufacturers, etc who make these possible, don't think that this is the new norm.  Because they didn't get anything for their money this time, other than being associated with what is probably the hottest debated dxpedition ever in terms of it being a failure or not.

Like what I say or not.  Learn from it or not.  Defend your position or not.  But what is being said is the truth.  In comparison to almost all DXpeditions operated in the last 4p plus years, this one was pretty much a failure.

Move on.  Learn.  Don't repeat.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
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K7JQ

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Re: P5
« Reply #67 on: March 01, 2023, 03:30:00 AM »

The Monday morning quarterbacks are alive and well.
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N1UR

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Re: P5
« Reply #68 on: March 01, 2023, 04:02:42 AM »

The ironic thing is that there were huge unrealistic plans, huge amounts of money raised, and in the end, the execution was pretty much as if a sailboat arrived without a plan and a few brave souls said the heck with this we are going ashore and getting some signals on the air.  Floating in with very minimalist supplies with resulting minimalist signals.  Kudos they pulled it off.

But rolling the tape back, we would have all called it crazy if what actually happened WAS the plan.  And the money needing to be raised could have been a lot less??  Maybe not.  The big money I assume was the boat.

It really will be the standard to defend yourself against for the next planned big one....if there ever is a next planned big one.

Ed  N1UR
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K1VSK

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Re: P5
« Reply #69 on: March 01, 2023, 07:18:37 AM »

K1VSK - I answered your question.

Ed  N1UR

To review, I asked:


“Are you referring to the 3000 level of experience or this BYA cert described below?  “
Lots of people here who clearly have no clue about Southern Ocean sailing or landing have treated us with their “expertise”.
I’m just trying to ascertain what your level of experience is by which you judge. If you prefer to not answer, I understand…
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N1UR

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Re: P5
« Reply #70 on: March 01, 2023, 07:59:38 AM »

You need an attitude check sir.

I answered and that is that.

If you want to ignore me or my comments, please do so.

Ed  N1UR
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K1VSK

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Re: P5
« Reply #71 on: March 01, 2023, 08:18:36 AM »

You need an attitude check sir.



Ed  N1UR
My attitude here is simply an attempt to establish your qualification to sit in judgment.
As I thought, you  got caught in a failed attempt to sound authoritative and thereupon lapsed into the ‘attack the messenger’ trick.

Sailing in the Southern Ocean and landing on an Antarctic island is an extraordinary endeavor even by the most experienced crew. That some here are content to sit in their basement and criticize simply because this expedition didn’t live up to your expectation is asinine.

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N1UR

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Re: P5
« Reply #72 on: March 01, 2023, 10:31:29 AM »

You are really a piece of work buddy.

"I got caught"?  At what? 

I said my opinion and stated that Ken's assumption that I didn't know what I was talking about was incorrect.  The discussion was Zodiacs and their capabilities.  And the observations of myself and many others, that what we observed did not look safe, planned, or even always made sense given the sea conditions on some of the videos.

I never stated that I had "Sub antarctic experience"  Never have.  But you don't need it to know the capabilities of boats, zodiacs, and swells.  Especially if with decades of experience and certification as I and many others have.  Hell, I have dealt with as bad swells as some of what I saw with my 14 ft Boston Whaler tender off my boat in the Gulf Coast of Florida.  Yet, they were still floating in...I just asked why.  Reasonable question as far as I am concerned.

K1VSK if you have an opinion on the subject, state it.  But stop attacking me and other people and thinking somehow you were elected to be the "frequency cop" of eham.  You weren't.

Ed  N1UR
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K1VSK

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Re: P5
« Reply #73 on: March 01, 2023, 12:28:46 PM »

You are really a piece of work buddy.

"I got caught"?  At what? 

I said my opinion and stated that Ken's assumption that I didn't know what I was talking about was incorrect.  The discussion was Zodiacs and their capabilities.  And the observations of myself and many others, that what we observed did not look safe, planned, or even always made sense given the sea conditions on some of the videos.

I never stated that I had "Sub antarctic experience"  Never have.  But you don't need it to know the capabilities of boats, zodiacs, and swells.  Especially if with decades of experience and certification as I and many others have.  Hell, I have dealt with as bad swells as some of what I saw with my 14 ft Boston Whaler tender off my boat in the Gulf Coast of Florida.  Yet, they were still floating in...I just asked why.  Reasonable question as far as I am concerned.

K1VSK if you have an opinion on the subject, state it.  But stop attacking me and other people and thinking somehow you were elected to be the "frequency cop" of eham.  You weren't.

Ed  N1UR
It would have been easier to simply admit you overstated your knowledge and experience than write that rant. Bye.
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N1UR

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Re: P5
« Reply #74 on: March 01, 2023, 04:47:46 PM »

Never overstated my knowledge on using Zodiacs off of a yacht and dealing with 4 - 6 ft swells.  Doesn't really matter where the landing is being attempted.  Which is why the 3Y0J team did some live experience training in Norway. 

You really do have a problem...

Ed  N1UR
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