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Author Topic: hex vs. efhw noise question  (Read 622 times)

VE7RF

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Re: hex vs. efhw noise question
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2023, 07:47:04 AM »

Before, when the  3/4" copper water line was intact, I was probably in a ground loop.

How about the fact that your shack is connected to the ground rod outside through the coax AND to the electrical wiring through a three prong plug? Isn't that two paths?  :-\

I have often thought, 'Why ground coax outside shack when it's already grounded through the wiring?' But I am no expert on any of this. I just know I have visited another hams shack that had 'extra grounding' that caused a lightning strike to run through his house taking out appliances on it's way to the mains. I'm not sure anyone is an expert on grounding in reality though... just folks that think they are.  I just follow the idea that with grounding, often 'less is more'.  :)

BTW, for NOISE problems, I am a big believer in common mode chokes... coax wrapped through a toroid to be specific. Used to have them on all leads in & out of a remote coax switch as well as at the antenna feedpoints. Because one antenna can pickup noise and have it travel to another antenna through the coax shield, then come right into the shack on the center conductor of connected antenna, even though it was an UN-connected antenna that was actually picking up the noise. Added all those chokes (ten total) things got a WHOLE lot quieter. - As always... your mileage may vary.

As for this particular noise, however it is getting to your receiver front end, best to track it down and kill it!  ;D

I ground the shield of the coax at the top of the tower...and also the bottom of the tower...then again at my main SPG ground.  German HOFFI brand lightning arrestor goes at bottom of tower (5' above the ground), and is bonded to tower leg.... which bonds the shields of coax on either side of lightning arrestor to tower leg.   I use helical hairpins made from 3/8" silver plate copper tubing on each of the 2 x ants on the mast....so the center conductor is always DC grnded to mast anyway.  The remote switch box is also mounted to the mast...so only one rotor loop used.

Base of tower is grnded to 3 x 8' deep grnd rods, and cadwelded.   Then 2 ga copper, buried in grnd...run down the side of the house to a 4th 8' grnd rod..then into basement into the SPG alum plate..... which is also bonded to the main 200 amp panel.

If lightning hits the ants or tower.... it all flows down the 3 x tower legs..then into the 3 x grnd rods.   The run of the bare 2 ga cu between the 3 x rods at tower base..and 4th rod outside basement is to keep em all at the same potential.  The last thing you want is lightning getting the home..and relying on puny sized green grnd wires in the ac wiring.... they will be blown to hell.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2023, 07:49:29 AM by VE7RF »
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AI5BC

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Re: hex vs. efhw noise question
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2023, 07:58:21 AM »

How about the fact that your shack is connected to the ground rod outside through the coax AND to the electrical wiring through a three prong plug? Isn't that two paths?

Well butter my butt and call it a biscuit, at least one ham figured it out. The biggest mistake hams make is listening to foolish uncle Elmer and planting a ground rod outside the shack and bringing the coax and a ground inside. You have placed yourself in a Ground Loop between two earth grounds. You intentionally violated electrical codes and all best practices and begging for noise and lightning problems. You got what you asked for, one dangerous noisy mess brought to you by Uncle Elmer.

When you place a rod outside the shack. The next thing you do is run a long wire all the way through your house up through the walls up into the attic/basement to the ground rod placed under your AC service. You just provided a perfect path for lightning and common-mode noise to flow through your home. You do not have a ground. All you have is two rods with a piece of wire you call a radio connecting the two rods together placing you hopelessly lost in a Ground Loop you cannot get yourself out of. That loop acts as an antenna allowing any and all currents to flow through your radio. Then when lightning comes to visit, those two rods difference in potential rises to thousands of volts, and then thousands of amps of equalizing current flows through that wire you call a radio.

The solution is so simple, Uncle Elmer cannot figure it out because he is stuck in the 60's. He never noticed technology and electrical codes changed 50 years ago after the carnage of dead burnt bodies and equipment piled up. Electrical codes are written in blood ink. 

Follow code and best practices. Instead of running your coax directly to the shack from the tower or tree, run it to your AC service entrance. Supplement your AC service ground with more rods if you want. Run a bare #6 AWG buried as deep as you can away from the house with your coax to the tower base and bond it to the tower ground. At th eAC service bond your coax shield to the AC Service Ground using an antenna discharge unit. From that same point run the coax inside to the shack along with a Insulated #6 AWG copper wire for your station ground.

Do that and you have a Single Point Ground. There is no path for lightning or noise to flow. With SPG all equipment remains at the same potential. No voltage means no current or noise. Stupid simple electrical principles. 
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