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Author Topic: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers  (Read 481 times)

K2WPM

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2023, 07:29:00 PM »

Practice pulling call signs out of pileups.
Thanks for that.  Yes, I need to work on that.
CW is a joy ... a challenge.
We do this, not because it's easy, but because it's hard.
To paraphrase an ex-president ...
73,
David, K2WPM
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K2WPM

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2023, 07:33:52 PM »

Some great CW ops have an innate ability to concentrate on one caller despite all seemingly being on the same frequency, tone, strength. Mostly comes with experience. Adding to what KD1JT said about picking out a couple of letters or a number/letter combination and send them with a “?”, I also try to concentrate on the caller’s sending speed. Someone sending faster or slower than the majority can stand out. Also, wait for the “deluge” to thin out and catch a “tail-ender”.
Yeah, I found I was responding to people who sent much faster than me, and after I responded to them, the others had left.  Good points, thanks!
David, K2WPM
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K2WPM

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2023, 07:44:40 PM »

DO NOT transmit on the 'same exact frequency' when trying to be heard! To do so is an exercise in masochism. I'm a life-long QRPer. I learned how to be heard  :)  There is no finer way of standing out. And it doesn't have to be by much- 20 or 30 Hz works a treat, even when running SSB. Heck, especially then  ;)

I've done quite a few videos for new CW ops, offering my hints and experiences, if anyone cares to look. Channel not monetized, My CW playlist is at: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3CPduOS04Nck7TqKaLq7zbyrV1R9gioa

Chuck, N8NK
Very good thoughts.  20 or 30 Hz.
Gonna try that.
David, K2WPM
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K0RS

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2023, 07:57:30 PM »

Leave your RIT on.  The sharp guys will call a little off frequency to make their calls stand out.  If you answer the stations that do this, it will take only one or two QSOs before the pileup begins to spread out a bit.  This makes it much easier to pick out calls or at least partials.  Occasionally punch the RIT clear and start over.

Stick to your guns.  If you ask for "XX" don't cave and answer a bully who calls with "ZZ."  As KH6AQ pointed out, you will lose control of the pile.  At the end of the Q, don't use a long signature like "73 W9XYZ/4."  A simple "TU" will let the guys know you're ready for more calls.  But ID often enough that callers don't struggle to figure out who you are.  Another DXer I know said, "You get the pileup you deserve."  Make sure callers know you're in charge.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2023, 08:09:56 PM by K0RS »
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"90% of the people in a pile-up have no idea what's going on.  It's up to you to be in the remaining 10%."  *W9KNI*

K3TN

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2023, 03:22:12 AM »

The club I'm in (Potomac Valley Radio Club) has published a "Contest Cookbook" that has a short piece by Jim N3JT, one of the founders of the CW OPS group, with hints on getting through a pileup. Copied below.

73 John K3TN

HOW TO WORK A DXPEDITION – Jim N3JT

I first wrote much of what follows 24 years ago but it stands as true now as ever, perhaps even
more so. I have been on a number of DXpeditions in the past (HK0, PZ, CP, VP2E), working as
many as 5,000 stations in one weekend on CW. From the vantage point of the DX location
certain operating practices, good and bad, seem to stand out. You probably know about most of
these, but many DX contesters seemingly do not!

The goal of a caller in a pileup is to attract the attention of the DX station and make a contact as
soon as possible - ahead of everyone else. Why, then, do so many operators call the DX station
on his transmit frequency when he is plainly listening somewhere else? Yes, everyone makes
mistakes. Even the best among us has at one time or another inadvertently reversed the VFO
split frequencies and called on the DX station's transmit frequency. To avoid this embarrassing
error and not be considered a lobotomy gone bad, take the two seconds needed to check your
VFO settings before calling.

One of the best approaches to improve your chances of busting a pileup -- used by those who
consistently seem to work through large pileups with very modest equipment -- is to determine
exactly how the DX station is selecting his callers. Whatever you might think, be assured it is not
always the strongest signal that makes it through a pileup, especially if the pileup is large.
Normally, more than 2 or 3 stations on the same frequency cannot be separated on CW by the
DX station, particularly if the DX station is working them at 180 or more an hour and is listening
only a few seconds for each new cailsign.

The answer for you, of course, is to call away from what might be called the locus, the point
where all the other guys seem to be calling. This means calling 200 Hz or so up or down. If the
pileup is wide, try the edges. If the DX station is listening up or down, find the last station he
worked and call there or just above or below that spot. Even for the DX station that hops
around, there is usually a pattern of some kind that can be used to increase your calling
chances. Listen for it.

Also, it helps to determine the DX operator’s rhythm. If you let up on the key and hear him
answering someone else, send faster. If on SSB he answers a half beat after you let up on the
PTT, talk more slowly or leave a pause before you say your call. Sometimes it means delaying
your call until just after that critical time when the majority of other callers have paused to
breathe. If the DX station is working at a high rate, you can be sure that he is able to pick out a
callsign from the mass of callers after hearing it just once. So don't call longer than necessary,
especially if it is not a split operation.

Most contest DXpeditions are staffed by pretty good operators. Have good audio on SSB, clear
phonetics, clean CW, an smart approach, and you’ll improve your chances of breaking the
pileup more quickly.

73 Jim N3JT
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John K3TN

K2WPM

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2023, 06:09:10 PM »

Leave your RIT on. 

Yeah, I tried hitting the RIT a couple times, but didn't seem to work.
Do you have a recommended offset?
Thanks again,
David, K2WPM
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K2WPM

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2023, 06:10:23 PM »

Stick to your guns.  If you ask for "XX" don't cave and answer a bully who calls with "ZZ."  As KH6AQ pointed out, you will lose control of the pile. 
Wise advice!
73,
David, K2WPM
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K2WPM

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2023, 06:18:39 PM »

Excellent advice from the others posting here. This was also asked in the Contesting forum some time ago. K3TN said...
Some takeaways from this and other sources on CW pileups
Some excellent advice, thank you.  I will save that.
I have been torturing POTA hunters, to help me improve handling CW pile-ups .... :-/
73,
David, K2WPM
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K2WPM

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2023, 06:28:16 PM »

The club I'm in (Potomac Valley Radio Club) has published a "Contest Cookbook" that has a short piece by Jim N3JT, one of the founders of the CW OPS group, with hints on getting through a pileup.
Wow, I didn't realize Jim is famous!
Great guy, strong team member in K2B for 13 Colonies Special Event.
Another "save" as a reference source.
Thanks for that.
73,
David, K2WPM
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AE0Q

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2023, 06:32:16 PM »

Leave your RIT on. 

Yeah, I tried hitting the RIT a couple times, but didn't seem to work.
Do you have a recommended offset?
Make sure you adjust the RIT offset as well as turning it on :-)

I turn my RIT on and set to minus 60 Hz when I am tuning around in S&P 'mode' (Search and Pounce).  That way when my ear accidentally matches the tone of the station I'm calling, I'm about 60 Hz higher than all the guys that are exactly zerobeat :-)  You can go as much as a couple hundred Hz offset +/- and most people should hear you, as long as they aren't using a CW rig with the 200Hz wide bandwidth (like a QCX).

When I am calling CQ, which I _ALWAYS_ do when activating a park (over 10,000 CW contacts) I turn the RIT off and only occasionally adjust the Bandwidth wider or more narrow as needed (usually between 400Hz and 800Hz wide, whatever it takes to hear people). 

I use my brain to copy people on lower or higher audio pitches, it takes too much time to mess with the RIT for a short POTA CW contact when people are answering me at 25 wpm, which is the speed I use...  Of course if someone answers  R E A L L Y  slow I do slow down.

Glenn AE0Q
« Last Edit: March 21, 2023, 06:48:05 PM by AE0Q »
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K3TN

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2023, 04:32:33 AM »

Suggestion for RIT:

First, figure out what your preferred "pitch" is, what audio tone  you like to hear the CW signal at when you are zero beat with it. Everyone one is different but most transceivers come with a default of 800hZ.

Many ops find lower (say 450hz) works better for them as far as intelligibility and matching their ears. I prefer 600hz.

Just doing that, and then tuning in CW signals to your preferred pitch, may get you enough offset to leave RIT off. If not, the suggestions others have made are dead on.

One last thing about pileups:

We've all done it, but since 99.9% of DXpedition pileups will be operating split, the worst thing is to be calling them on their transmit frequency, vs. up. So, learn how to quickly set up a 1khz split operation on your transceiver and use your  VFO B or RIT to move your RX frequency around in the pileup.

If your rig or ham software has the ability to set up macros or special function buttons, set one up for UP1, one for UP5 (phone pileups) and one that returns from split operation to simplex.

Just as important: learn how to check that you are really in split! My Elecraft K3 has indications in the VFO display and on the left side by the transmit light and I can still screw up when I'm excited chasing things!

One last thought: if you are using DX cluster or reverse beacon network (RBN) skimmer spots, many spots by humans and all spots by skimmers do not indicate if a station is working split. So, just clicking on a spot and calling will usually mean you are QRMing the DXpedition. If you either don't hear anyone else calling, or hear lots of very short 2 letter Russian callsigns that start with U and occasionally are sending UP, but as often UG, UL, or other mangling of UP, then quickly check if you are "upside down" or the mangled CW will increase to longer mangling of disparaging remarks...

73 John K3TN
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John K3TN

K1VSK

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Re: Does T mean zero and how can one sort out callers
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2023, 08:12:53 AM »

We do this, not because it's easy, but because it's hard.
To paraphrase an ex-president ...
73,
David, K2WPM
You will find that as your proficiency progresses, CW is actually easier than is phone, particularly with pileups.
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