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Author Topic: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?  (Read 607 times)

W2IRT

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WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« on: February 14, 2023, 11:48:11 AM »

Earlier this morning I tried unsuccessfully to work Thierry on Crozet on 12m FT8. He came and went a couple of times, but the last print I saw from FT8WW was at 1737Z, with most of his calls around 1630-1700z. So why then was there a parade of callers CALLING HIM BLINDLY FOR FOR ALMOST AN HOUR AFTER HE WENT QRT?!?! The last one gave up at 19:04:45, or at least that's when he faded out to me. Here's just a small screenshot for a period of 45 minutes after the last  FT8WW transmission that I received.

It was far, FAR worse for Bouvet. HUNDREDS of callers calling blindly, on both the correct and incorrect time slots, LONG after they had gone off the air. In fact I saw dozens if not hundreds of stations calling 3Y0J at least three hours after they went off the air for good late last night. WHY?
Yes, I know, it's a rhetorical question, but GAAAAAAAAH!

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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

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WB8VLC

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2023, 12:02:17 PM »

I found it's best to try him on cw as FT8 doesn't have enough room for a thousand hams calling at once.

Working him on 20 cw last week was a breeze either long path or short path.

Actually he is almost Antipod from me so long or short works the same for me but FT8 is crazy these days with insufficient room for all the hams calling him and as a result my only FT8WW success is with CW.

 I found CW easier to work him if you use a spectrum scope and a couple of the online sdr receivers to see where other hams are calling and set up several memory channels to avoid the mess and try and get in between the Chaos to a clear frequency to avoid the mess of callers.

I did this last week and after alternating between 5 saved clear frequencies was I then able to catch him on 20 cw but when I tried FT8 it was a zoo
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KD8MJR

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2023, 12:03:49 PM »

At least 40 callers were still there four hours after 3Y0J went QRT and that was just the last time I checked.
Full Automation using Pounce and hours of Tx time set on the timer.
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KE8KMX

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2023, 12:04:18 PM »

I could see someone hoping that he will come back and they will be first inline before the spots hit.


Gino
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KM4SII

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2023, 01:19:18 PM »

I found it's best to try him on cw as FT8 doesn't have enough room for a thousand hams calling at once.

Working him on 20 cw last week was a breeze either long path or short path.

Actually he is almost Antipod from me so long or short works the same for me but FT8 is crazy these days with insufficient room for all the hams calling him and as a result my only FT8WW success is with CW.

 I found CW easier to work him if you use a spectrum scope and a couple of the online sdr receivers to see where other hams are calling and set up several memory channels to avoid the mess and try and get in between the Chaos to a clear frequency to avoid the mess of callers.
That's the interesting thing about FT8 -- It can be both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand, it's entirely possible to bust a huge FT8 pileup in minutes regardless of if you are the loudest or the weakest signal on the DX's waterfall if the operator just so happens to select your callsign soon after you started calling. On the other hand, you could be calling for hours with a good signal that is getting decoded by the DX every pass, but they just don't end up selecting your call out of the long list of callers.

On FT8, as long as you are being heard, everyone pretty much has an equal shot of getting called by the DX (as long as you aren't getting stepped on). Like I said... this can be both good and bad. On CW, it is much more skill and signal-based. Can you find where the DX is listening, determine which direction he is moving, select a clear slot in the pileup, and time your call right?

When I worked FT8WW on 30m FT8, it took quite some time, but I did make it through despite it being the very first time he was QRV. I believe my QSO was much faster on 20m CW. All it took was to realize he was slowing moving up on the upper end of the pileup, place my TX just above where he was currently working stations, and boom -- in the log despite the fact he was very weak.

73
Mason - KM4SII
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K5APL

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2023, 02:14:49 PM »

I listened to several SSB DX pile-ups lately and I heard many poor operators.  I think that there have always been problems in the past, some very severe, but what I hear now is much, much worse. Last one I heard I got so sick at my stomach that I turned the radio off.
IMO the reasons are a combination of things:
1.  We live in an economy where a brand new ham can purchase a high powered station with
     a big antenna relatively easy.  Same goes for old timers.
2.  The difference is that operating practices have degraded.  Example: the Big Gun calls the
     DX and makes contact, then asks him what his call letters are and his location.  He did not
     listen or look him up or........just called blindly.
3.  They believe that since they spent $$$$ on their station that they deserve to make a
     contact even if they have to keep calling and calling and tail-ending and tail-ending the
     last tail-ender.
4.  So the little guy with a $ or $$ station gets frustrated and tries to call in between the Big
     Guns so there is more chaos.
5.  The DX station gets so frustrated that he leaves the frequency but the chasers don't quit.

You can put your experiences around that scenario.  Bottom line is most of the new operators
think they are entitled to work the DX station in any way possible.  So I say, why not always
have the DX work split frequency?  It does help.  And working by call districts does help.  But
the frustration levels build again and the DX's frequency is QRM'd and cat-called and etc.
And since we have good receivers, we hear the interference better than the DX.

The answer IMO is the protocol and practices for DXing must be passed on to newcomers (and old-timers too).  Perhaps add questions to the Amateur Exams.  Perhaps you have better ideas.  But it is a matter of education.  It might make a difference. 

Wes

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WA3SKN

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2023, 02:31:58 PM »

You are asking to explain why people do dumb things??

"Human nature doesn't change!"

-Mike.
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W3PX

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2023, 03:29:38 PM »

"Why are they still calling?" Because there is a high percentage of idiots in the ham ranks.
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W2IRT

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2023, 03:44:34 PM »

"Why are they still calling?" Because there is a high percentage of idiots in the ham ranks.
That's why I said "It's a rhetorical question."
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Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

EI2GLB

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2023, 05:14:37 PM »

It's simple,

They have there TX watchdog set to something stupid like 1 or 2 hours,

The just click TXenable and then go off and do some stupid like fool around with there sister or drink drain cleaner you know stuff retards do  ;D
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W2IRT

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2023, 05:19:40 PM »

They just click TXenable and then go off and do some stupid like fool around with there sister or drink drain cleaner you know stuff retards do ;D
If only they would in fact do the latter, preferably before attempting to do the former, the world would be a better place. I can hear the banjos already.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

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W6IBU

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2023, 06:11:49 PM »

This is the result of the hobby being dumbed down for the sake of adding more hams.  I was amazed whether it be CW or FT8 why anyone would call when they can't hear.  Seems pretty basic IMHO.

W6IBU
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W4AMP

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2023, 08:42:42 AM »

It's simple,

They have there TX watchdog set to something stupid like 1 or 2 hours,

The just click TXenable and then go off and do some stupid like fool around with there sister or drink drain cleaner you know stuff retards do  ;D

Automated contacts are not supposed to count period.
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W2IRT

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Re: WHY ARE THEY STILL CALLING?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2023, 08:45:50 AM »

Automated contacts are not supposed to count period.
Good luck ever seeing that enforced; I don't think the League has the stones to try, quite honestly. And prove the guys weren't sitting there every few minutes hitting TX Enable. But the point is, they're obviously not hearing the DX so calling blind for an hour after they went QRT only serves to make their electric utility richer.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.
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