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Author Topic: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose  (Read 733 times)

NEVBEN

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Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« on: February 21, 2023, 04:04:23 PM »

I need some new HT's for my family.  We use 2m every day.  Because we're all mobile (the kids are driving) and we only have one 'phone,' 2-meter is the backbone of our family communication.  We're all licensed. We have mobile units in all the cars.  We also have excellent repeater coverage, and we use 2m for hiking, bicycling, when walking the dog, backpacking, hunting, paddling, backcountry skiing and more.

For the past 12 years, we've been using Kenwood TH-K20A handhelds.  They've met all our expectations.  They're simple, easy to program, easy to clone configurations (we use 100 memories).  The battery life has stayed decent.  That's remarkable after 12 years.  Because the NiMH batteries are returned the charger every day and they don't calendar age like Li-Ion.  Well, apparently, they're discontinued.

I could try to buy them on eBay, classifieds or whatever second-hand.  Or I could replace them with something new.  I'd buy at least a pair of new ones and then another pair if they met all my expectations.  I'd continue to use the remaining Kenwoods while I could.

I don't want expensive ($400-600) HT's with a lot of colorful features I don't use and that cost me too much if I lose one.  We've lost one over the last 12 years.  I am willing to pay for quality, durability, protection, power, and battery capacity.  I don't mind Li-Ion as long as I can replace the batteries every few years with new ones, not NOS, and they still make them after 10 years.

Dual-band doesn't add anything for me.  I just don't use 70cm or anything but 2m on an HT.  I realize though that the better radios often are dual or more.

The Kenwoods are 7 oz. and small enough.  I don't want anything bigger or much heavier or over 12 oz.  Those old die cast Motorola beasts are great for tire chocks, but I don't want to carry one everyday.

Yaesu FT-4XR -- a little shorter, not too heavy at 8.8oz, with a more powerful battery, more audio power, low price.  But looks like it doesn't even have IP54 rating.  I don't need a particular specification, but I do need ruggedness.  If one bites the dust, it's cheap to replace, but I'd hate to have it fail when I needed it backpacking or on a bicycle tour.  It's also a direct conversion receiver.  Is that the fad because of SDR or because of cheap Chinese radios?

Yaesu VX-6R -- claimed to be more rugged, IP67 rated, but $250.  A Double-conversion Super-heterodyne receiver.

ICOM IC-V80 -- IP54 rated HT with a powerful battery.  The Sport AA-battery version is super cheap, but the Li-ION battery pack doubles the price.  This is double super het.

ICOM IC-T10 -- no general receive?  direct conversion?  This could have been an excellent Japanese-made HT with IP67 rating, but I want to receive Sheriff, Fire, and SAR frequencies.

ICOM IC-V86 -- another direct conversion receiver?  Can we call this the Baofeng effect?  It's got power and battery capacity, but does it perform?


Unless I learn something I don't know now, I'm leaning towards collecting more TH-K20A's from the classifieds or upgrading to the VX-6R.  The newer models have some attraction, but I'm concerned they're built for profit margins rather than the pride of craftsmanship that used to be characteristic of amateur radio.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2023, 04:08:16 PM by NEVBEN »
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WB8VLC

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2023, 07:08:18 PM »

The Yaesu FT60R would be a good choice, good price, lithium battery and HRO still has them available on their page.

The Alinco DJ-VX50T maybe another lower cost option.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2023, 07:27:10 PM by WB8VLC »
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NEVBEN

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2023, 08:47:39 PM »

FT60 is obsolete.  It's been around for 19 years and is about to be discontinued also.  I'm not saying it's a bad radio, but I would be better off buying used Kenwoods in the obsolete model that I already have several of.

At some point, I have to transition to a new model.  Maybe that will be the IC-T10.  I'm wary that the new models are direct conversion rather than double super hets, but maybe that's just the future.  Maybe they've got that tech so its better and not just cheaper.  In my first message, I confused direct conversion with direct sampling (popular in SDR).  With direct conversion, it may be that integrating the entire signal chain and digital calibration has made this a viable architecture nowadays.

It looks like the most affordable IC-T10's are coming from Japan (~$180 w/free shipping).  I hope the RX coverage is complete if I get those.
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K4GTE

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2023, 03:45:26 AM »

FT60 is obsolete.  It's been around for 19 years and is about to be discontinued also.  I'm not saying it's a bad radio, but I would be better off buying used Kenwoods in the obsolete model that I already have several of.

At some point, I have to transition to a new model.  Maybe that will be the IC-T10.  I'm wary that the new models are direct conversion rather than double super hets, but maybe that's just the future.  Maybe they've got that tech so its better and not just cheaper.  In my first message, I confused direct conversion with direct sampling (popular in SDR).  With direct conversion, it may be that integrating the entire signal chain and digital calibration has made this a viable architecture nowadays.

A purchase of any transceiver designed for the Japanese market is a mistake. Big mistake, as has been discussed on here numerous times. Different frequency ranges, sometimes different power levels, usually lower. If you are in the US, buy a radio designed for the US market and frequencies.

It looks like the most affordable IC-T10's are coming from Japan (~$180 w/free shipping).  I hope the RX coverage is complete if I get those.
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K1FBI

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2023, 03:55:40 AM »

My BaoFeng is still working on the original battery 9 years later.
I wouldn't discount a proven model like the Yaesu FT-60.
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KD2HCU

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2023, 04:35:23 AM »

I've got several Baofengs of various model numbers, I've also got a Yaesu ft-65.  The ft65 costs 2 to 3 times the price of some of the baofengs, but the performance is better in all respects.  If I could only keep 1, it would be the Yaesu ft65.
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K1FBI

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2023, 05:54:20 AM »

I've got several Baofengs of various model numbers, I've also got a Yaesu ft-65.  The ft65 costs 2 to 3 times the price of some of the baofengs, but the performance is better in all respects.  If I could only keep 1, it would be the Yaesu ft65.
Tend to agree on the lower end models. I bought the best model they sold at the time and the extra dollars have proven well worth it. Hence, why I steered him towards the FT-60 Yaesu.
For the record I owned a VX-5R Yaesu and it was total crap. No comparison to my Kenwood HT. 
My HF rig is the FT-710 so I do like Yaesu.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2023, 05:58:31 AM by K1FBI »
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K4JJL

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2023, 06:39:17 AM »

I know you poo-poo'ed Motorola, but an HT-1250 or an XTS2500 might be worth looking into.  They're not giant and heavy like XTS5000, MTS2000, or Sabers.  They're only 11 oz w/out battery.  And lithium batteries are available that weigh hardly anything.
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K5LXP

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2023, 07:20:50 AM »

You can get lithium batteries for your kenwoods.  If it ain't broke don't fix it.  I have a "fleet" of old motorola radios I've since bought or built lithium packs for and will continue to use them until they fail.  My take on it is if the kenwoods work for you maybe pick up a spare radio or two, lithium packs for all and down the road you go.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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G4AON

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2023, 02:26:12 AM »


Unless I learn something I don't know now, I'm leaning towards collecting more TH-K20A's from the classifieds or upgrading to the VX-6R.  The newer models have some attraction, but I'm concerned they're built for profit margins rather than the pride of craftsmanship that used to be characteristic of amateur radio.
Giving your callsign would be appreciated, unless you are a pirate  ;D.

Many amateur hand held radios are really awkward to use, you mention the VX-6R, I had a VX-7R and it was plain awful, surprisingly when I sold it on fleabay it went for more than I paid for it. A friend also had one and he sold it too, they are difficult to use unless you keep the manual handy... and it has a lot of pages!

I don't agree with your long life statement for NiMh batteries, I haven't found them particularly good and I have experience of ordering thousands of NiMH and lithium batteries when I worked in the mobile radio industry, when used daily both types typically needed replacing after 18 months to 2 years. The lithium types have much greater capacity for a given size. I see the TH-K20A uses lithium batteries, the Kenwood USA site states the following; "This radio is supplied with a rechargeable Lithium-ion battery plus a convenient cradle charger"

The only downside to the TH-K20A is it isn't as water resistant as some, IP54 is only a light shower rating, if you operate in heavy rain it might suffer from water ingress. Some Icom and Yaesu models are capable of immersion in water.

73 Dave
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K6CPO

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2023, 09:58:54 AM »

I get the impression hams expect that when a radio is discontinued , meaning it's no longer in production, it automatically quits working. It's like assuming your car quits running once it's model year has passed.

If your radios are still functional but the batteries are reaching the end of their service life, all is not lost. Before investing money in new radios, look around to see if after-market batteries are available. As it turns out, replacement Lithium Ion batteries are available for the Kenwood TH-K20A. And as cheap as hams are, it's a more economical solution to the "problem."

https://batteriesamerica.com/search?type=product&q=Kenwood*+TH-K20A*
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K4JJL

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2023, 01:23:11 PM »

I have a "fleet" of old motorola radios I've since bought or built lithium packs for and will continue to use them until they fail.

How's the plastic holding up?  ;)
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SA4MDN

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2023, 01:32:29 PM »

FT-70 is a nice simple radio with Wiresx as a bonus, i run 2 of them
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N8FNR

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2023, 11:11:16 AM »

FT-70 is a nice simple radio with Wiresx as a bonus, i run 2 of them

I second this. You get to mess with Fusion at a low cost and the FM in the rig is great too. They are $175 ay DXE.

https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/ysu-ft-70dr
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K4CQO

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Re: Need new HT's -- Kenwood discontinued? Help me choose
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2023, 07:00:16 AM »

I am just going to throw this out for consideration -- consider APRS capability in the HTs -- both TX and RX. Since you are using them for outdoor activities, it would make sense to have the TX capability so that tracking of the others is possible. RX is nice if you are in a place without cell phone capabilities.

That may imply a higher cost HT, but it may be worth considering.
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