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Author Topic: VK6CQ calls for 3Y0J DXCC to be invalidated due to no landing permit !  (Read 2517 times)

VK3YP

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« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 02:07:33 AM by VK3YP »
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KD6VXI

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If what he says is true, it should be pulled from credit.

Other previous dxoedition have been pulled for similar.

And maybe next time we can get an expedition that comes close to doing what they said they where going to do.  This was a nightmare.

--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
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KC0W

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 Guy could have entirely too much time on his hands. I can kinda sympathize with him though. On my off days from work I can easily spend way, way too much time on my home computer. The longer I spend on it the chances of me posting some STUPID stuff on eHam (or other websites) exponentially rise. I get into a strange computer induced "trance" after too many hours. Stuff I thought was funny, helpful or interesting at the time is complete garbage when I re-read it the next day. A lot of my "trance" postings are highly egotistical in nature when I re-read them in my proper state of mind. Embarrassing stuff...........All the more reason to get the hell off the computer & get some exercise, read a book, work on your antennas or go for a drive.

 Perhaps VK6CQ suffers from the same "trance" related abnormality?


                                                                       Tom KH0/KC0W

         
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N1UR

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I have to say, its pretty well researched and asks some very good questions.

Ed  N1UR
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KE8KMX

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If you go to the 3Y0J website and click on the Latest News tab you will see that at the very bottom is the following statement

NPI Landing permit received!

​September, 2020

​We now have the official landing and camping permit from the Norwegian Polar Institute (NPI).




https://www.3y0j.no/latest-news


I just can't imagine that they would go to this amount of planning and not have the proper permits from the Norwegian govt.

That said the guy makes about 100 good points about saftey aspects of this trip as well as future ones.  The video of the guy in the Zodiak without a survial suit almost falling into the ocean was hard to watch.


Gino  - KE8KMX
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N1UR

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I agree. 

The bigger problem is that if you were a Norwegian government official and saw these videos, would you ever grant another landing and camping permit???

Ed  N1UR
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K4HB

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Alan, VK6CQ, (aka The Penguinator) is an expert in Antarctic operations and survival. He was on Macquarie as Comms chief for a year in 2000, and has been on DXpeditions to other Antarctic areas. What he says makes perfect sense when it comes to safety and regulations. But can't imagine a team going to all that trouble and expense and not have a landing permit. And can't imagine how those big time sponsors would support a DXpedition without knowing all permits were in order.
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K8KWT

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This stuff can actually happen.  I have one QSO/QSL for Glorioso FR/G/FH4EC from 3/9/87.  It was accepted for DXCC for over 20 years.  About two years after I synced up my paper QSL cards with LoTW, my confirmation disappeared.

I contacted DXCC desk and got a reply from Bill Moore that this group couldn't produce a landing permit so it doesn't count.  He was apparently checking out a different issue for another ham when he notice that the guy had FR/G/FH4EC  as his Glorioso QSL.  So he deleted that guy's QSL.  Then he deleted the QSL's for that Call Sign for everybody that had that as their  Glorioso QSL in LoTW.

He told me at the time (late 2009 or 2010) that there were about 40 guys that lost that confirmation.  He also said he never told those guy's he did that, but that most would probably have another Glorioso to submit.  (I didn't/don't)

I didn't realize that I now still needed Glorioso so I did not bother trying to work the single activation after my LoTW confirmation was canceled. Band fills weren't a thing for me back then. 

At the time I asked him when they were asked to produce the landing permit and exactly when that even became a required document.  I don't remember them being required way back in 1987.  I never got an answer to that question

He did tell me that if I hadn't sync'd my Paper Cards to my LoTW account I would still have my confirmation because it was too big a hassle to figure out who might have used FR/G/FH4EC as their Glorioso QSL but didn't use LoTW.  I guess you can tell I'm still a little miffed by that.

But the point is apparently a landing permit is absolutely required for the Entity to count.  It also looks like old activations of rare-ish Entities could run afoul of the missing landing permit.

I really hope 3Y0J has that permit.  If they don't this could suck majorly.

Bob K8KWT
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ON6KE

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Is there any merit to this or is just a another "karen" ??

https://ibb.co/zbJWpmq
https://ibb.co/tZvjqRd
https://ibb.co/fCDR9s8
https://ibb.co/DYPvRQJ
https://ibb.co/nrZWCxN
https://ibb.co/607yFZ2
https://ibb.co/z8fGtjy


73' John VK3YP

Where - show me the text in the document - is it that "VK6CQ calls for 3Y0J DXCC to be invalidated due to no landing permit".
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 06:08:45 AM by ON6KE »
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W9AC

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From my read, he's questioning some basic assumptions concerning the landing permit, public disclosure of a permit and he brings into question health and safety matters. It appears to be an open letter, not specifically addressed to the ARRL.

A quick look at 3Y0J entries at ClubLog shows zero contacts between VK6CQ and the 3Y0J team, and that includes his several callsigns shown at the conclusion of his letter.  If he had made a few contacts with the team, would the letter still be written? 

Another issue: where has the ARRL been in this?  The League has known for a very long time about the 3Y0J operation.  At any time did the ARRL notify team leaders of any DXCC qualification deficiencies up to and including the landing day?  If not, why not?  There should be no pre-landing qualification surprises.  That said, I would be very surprised if the League did not put the team on notice in some way of any pre-landing deficiency to save a lot of wasted time.  I'm not knowledgeable about the League's policy on these types of notice.  I'll await the League's response to the open letter if they choose to respond.

Paul, W9AC
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K4GTE

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Re: VK6CQ calls for 3Y0J DXCC to be invalidated due to no landing permit !
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2023, 07:34:53 AM »

From what I've read in the above links, there is no evidence the expedition did not have the proper permits.
Until proven otherwise, and from the expedition's website comments, they obtained the proper permits.
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ON6KE

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Re: VK6CQ calls for 3Y0J DXCC to be invalidated due to no landing permit !
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2023, 07:51:03 AM »

From what I've read in the above links, there is no evidence the expedition did not have the proper permits.
Until proven otherwise, and from the expedition's website comments, they obtained the proper permits.

I'd say let the expedition's website show the permit(s).
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 08:03:12 AM by ON6KE »
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WD8OTT

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Re: VK6CQ calls for 3Y0J DXCC to be invalidated due to no landing permit !
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2023, 07:55:03 AM »

Guy could have entirely too much time on his hands. I can kinda sympathize with him though. On my off days from work I can easily spend way, way too much time on my home computer. The longer I spend on it the chances of me posting some STUPID stuff on eHam (or other websites) exponentially rise. I get into a strange computer induced "trance" after too many hours. Stuff I thought was funny, helpful or interesting at the time is complete garbage when I re-read it the next day. A lot of my "trance" postings are highly egotistical in nature when I re-read them in my proper state of mind. Embarrassing stuff...........All the more reason to get the hell off the computer & get some exercise, read a book, work on your antennas or go for a drive.
 Perhaps VK6CQ suffers from the same "trance" related abnormality?


                                                                       Tom KH0/KC0W

         
 So Iam not the only one that does this? It is comforting to know I am not alone. Dang time sucking computers! Don WD8OTT
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K9RJ

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Re: VK6CQ calls for 3Y0J DXCC to be invalidated due to no landing permit !
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2023, 08:05:11 AM »

I agree with VK6CQs comments. When I saw the videos of the team members roped together going through the surf I couldn't believe what I was seeing. They could have easily died. This should never happen again.

"In the short term, 3YDJ may be considered by some as a modest success in that a few thousand ATNOs were given out to the lucky and deserving few etc., however it has unfortunately done the DX
Community a far greater disservice in the long term.
Once the various sub-Antarctic government authorities learn of the four 3YDJ Team members being stranded on Bouvetya without adequate food & shelter, they certainly won't be in any mood to issue landing permits to anyone, least of all
DXpeditions. As a consequence, the DX Community may as well forget any future DXpeditions to Peter 1 Island, South Georgia, South Sandwich Islands, Kerguelen, Heard Island, Auckland Islands etc.
because chances are they will now never happen."
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K4HB

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Re: VK6CQ calls for 3Y0J DXCC to be invalidated due to no landing permit !
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2023, 08:12:29 AM »

If the team shows ARRL the proper documentation, I believe the operation will be approved. Don't believe they will base their decision on whether a landing permit should have been issued, or if the team made bad decisions or were reckless. Same goes for IOTA, and BTW, their operations manager is one of the team members. But I agree with VK6CQ's assessment and safety concerns about operations to those hazardous areas of our planet.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2023, 08:23:21 AM by K4HB »
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