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Author Topic: VKØLD/VK6CQ suggests ARRL revoke 3Y0J DXCC Credit for Endangering Life & Limb  (Read 2985 times)

KD8MJR

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In addition, the same big guns would call every night and these were not 59 and on to the next qso's.  This is where Don Miller started making a list of operators jhe would not respond to.  After repeatedly asking to work him once and then let others, they ignored his requests and so he ignored them until they complained to the league. 
Say what you will about his later faults, but he was one of the best damn CW operators dx'ing ever had.
Is this the same Don Miller who faked Numerous Dxpeditions and then had a Dxpedition where two of the Dxpedtioners died.  He later sued the ARRL in court and then under cross examination admitted that he had never been to five of the entities including Bouvet!  Later on he was convicted of conspiring to kill his wife and spent 22 years in jail.  I am not even sure but it also seems he was running an underground museum filled with stolen artifacts and he also excavated some 500 Indian corpses and kept their bones in a cabinet in his house.
I would kind of say that those are more than Faults.  It makes me wonder what really happened to those other ham operators that died.

Anyway lets get back to Bouvet as the Admin loves to lock threads.
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)

K1VSK

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In addition, the same big guns would call every night and these were not 59 and on to the next qso's.  This is where Don Miller started making a list of operators jhe would not respond to.  After repeatedly asking to work him once and then let others, they ignored his requests and so he ignored them until they complained to the league. 
Say what you will about his later faults, but he was one of the best damn CW operators dx'ing ever had.
Not sure what you post is referencing, however, Miller was a good CW op but his real talent was in discriminating among a huge pileup at a fast rate. As to the reason he didn’t work some callers, this was a transparent attempt to manipulate the DXCC standings by not working the top guys and using the excuse that they were not following his directions. Obviously, they didn’t get to the top by being poor operators.

As to whether he was actually on/in the places he claimed to be, it’s not unlike operating a remote repeater on/in that entity while not actually being there. A difference with very little distinction.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 08:34:22 AM by K1VSK »
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W2IRT

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In addition, the same big guns would call every night and these were not 59 and on to the next qso's.  This is where Don Miller started making a list of operators jhe would not respond to.  After repeatedly asking to work him once and then let others, they ignored his requests and so he ignored them until they complained to the league. 
Say what you will about his later faults, but he was one of the best damn CW operators dx'ing ever had.
Not sure what you post is referencing, however, Miller was a good CW op but his real talent was in discriminating among a huge pileup at a fast rate. As to the reason he didn’t work some callers, this was a transparent attempt to manipulate the DXCC standings by not working the top guys and using the excuse that they were not following his directions. Obviously, they didn’t get to the top by being poor operators.

As to whether he was actually on/in the places he claimed to be, it’s not unlike operating a remote repeater on/in that entity while not actually being there. A difference with very little distinction.




I actually met Don a few years ago in Dayton, when I was checking cards in the Hara. Same year I ran into Don Search.
Talk about polar opposites!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 09:03:48 AM by W2IRT »
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

WO7R

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Quote
As to whether he was actually on/in the places he claimed to be, it’s not unlike operating a remote repeater on/in that entity while not actually being there. A difference with very little distinction.

Really?  If I say the transmitter is in Aves but it is actually in Miami, that's the same as going through the considerable effort of getting the authorities to approve, put the station in Aves, and operating it remotely?

Do you know how ridiculous you sound right now?

Hate on remote operation if you like, but you must be young and green to argue this way.  The hurt put in the program by Don Miller's lies about where he was is the biggest scar in the history of DXCC.

One reason LOTW is as paranoid as it is is precisely because of one Don Miller.   Read any honest writeup of the Miller saga.  There simply wasn't the worry about "is this guy legit" before him.

The only "scars" remote operation is making, by contrast, is the old farts who can't cope with something new.  Most of us are coping just fine.
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K1VSK

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Quote
As to whether he was actually on/in the places he claimed to be, it’s not unlike operating a remote repeater on/in that entity while not actually being there. A difference with very little distinction.

Really?  If I say the transmitter is in Aves but it is actually in Miami, that's the same as going through the considerable effort of getting the authorities to approve, put the station in Aves, and operating it remotely?

Do you know how ridiculous you sound right now?

Hate on remote operation if you like, but you must be young and green to argue this way.  The hurt put in the program by Don Miller's lies about where he was is the biggest scar in the history of DXCC.

One reason LOTW is as paranoid as it is is precisely because of one Don Miller.   Read any honest writeup of the Miller saga.  There simply wasn't the worry about "is this guy legit" before him.

The only "scars" remote operation is making, by contrast, is the old farts who can't cope with something new.  Most of us are coping just fine.

No need for your constant personal attacks simply because you don’t like my opinion so don’t let your panties get too tight. Last I checked, we are all entitled to opinions.

The difference in the Aves Island scenario you describe is, as I said, a difference with little distinction. In both scenarios, the op isn’t in/on the entity. Only the repeater is.

Would a picture help?
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W2IRT

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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

KD6KVL

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In addition, the same big guns would call every night and these were not 59 and on to the next qso's.  This is where Don Miller started making a list of operators jhe would not respond to.  After repeatedly asking to work him once and then let others, they ignored his requests and so he ignored them until they complained to the league. 
Say what you will about his later faults, but he was one of the best damn CW operators dx'ing ever had.
Is this the same Don Miller who faked Numerous Dxpeditions and then had a Dxpedition where two of the Dxpedtioners died.  He later sued the ARRL in court and then under cross examination admitted that he had never been to five of the entities including Bouvet!  Later on he was convicted of conspiring to kill his wife and spent 22 years in jail.  I am not even sure but it also seems he was running an underground museum filled with stolen artifacts and he also excavated some 500 Indian corpses and kept their bones in a cabinet in his house.
I would kind of say that those are more than Faults.  It makes me wonder what really happened to those other ham operators that died.

Anyway lets get back to Bouvet as the Admin loves to lock threads.

Can you show me where he admitted to 5 operations he wasn't on?  I've sat down and listened to his speech and done some reading on this and he admitted to not landing on St Peter & Paul Rocks.  He claimed this was the only place this occured.  If there is different info, I'd like to be more enlightened.
As far as his friends dying.  The boat sunk in the south pacific, he wasn't on it, whats that got to do with his credibility?
I've never heard of the bones story, but ok.
He did do prison time for the conspiracy.
He still was one of the best cw dx operators, and many agree.  He can be an a-hole, criminal, or just a not nice guy, but his skill was still obvious and our DXCC program would be DRASTICALLY different if he hadn't been around.
Frank KG6N
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Frank KG6N

KD6KVL

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In addition, the same big guns would call every night and these were not 59 and on to the next qso's.  This is where Don Miller started making a list of operators jhe would not respond to.  After repeatedly asking to work him once and then let others, they ignored his requests and so he ignored them until they complained to the league. 
Say what you will about his later faults, but he was one of the best damn CW operators dx'ing ever had.
Not sure what you post is referencing, however, Miller was a good CW op but his real talent was in discriminating among a huge pileup at a fast rate. As to the reason he didn’t work some callers, this was a transparent attempt to manipulate the DXCC standings by not working the top guys and using the excuse that they were not following his directions. Obviously, they didn’t get to the top by being poor operators.

As to whether he was actually on/in the places he claimed to be, it’s not unlike operating a remote repeater on/in that entity while not actually being there. A difference with very little distinction.

He asked every night for the same big guns to let unique callers have a shot and they stilled called on the same bands and modes every night.  He finally started making a list in frustration and not working them. 
In the old days, some dx'ers would dupe every day on the same expeditions.  Don realized the value of given contacts to uniques to help all.  There was a lot of people who thought only the strongest signals get the dx. 
They did not follow his directions, not to call once they had him once per band slot. 
They figured it out by calling with calls that weren't theirs and he would quickly reply.  Some of these guys had clout as traffic handlers, because thats what ARRL really cared about at the time, and they made a stink, so the ARRL penned an unnamed editorial in QST and he sued for defamation.  They settled.
He wasn't wrong on ignoring the hogs, but ARRL found issue with the black list. 
Frank KG6N
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Frank KG6N

KD6KVL

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He did say at Visalia that he felt bad for the blacklist, but he was spending years of his life and a fortune to give the same group of dx'ers qso's every night and everyone else was left with wasted time not getting through.
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Frank KG6N

WO7R

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Would a picture help?

How about some perspective from you?

You seem to think they are equivalent.

Would you at least acknowledge the different levels of effort involved?

Apparently, you are more interested in where the guy's butt sits than where the radio does. 

I'm sorry, a remote radio actually on Godforsaken rock is not the same as sipping Mai-Tai's on a beach in Miami and pretending to be on Godforsaken Rock.  In the latter case neither the  butt nor the radio is there.

At least in the Aves Remote Scenario, somebody had to go there and bring the radio ashore.

Can you at least acknowledge the vast difference in effort in those two situations?
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K1VSK

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In addition, the same big guns would call every night and these were not 59 and on to the next qso's.  This is where Don Miller started making a list of operators jhe would not respond to.  After repeatedly asking to work him once and then let others, they ignored his requests and so he ignored them until they complained to the league. 
Say what you will about his later faults, but he was one of the best damn CW operators dx'ing ever had.
Not sure what you post is referencing, however, Miller was a good CW op but his real talent was in discriminating among a huge pileup at a fast rate. As to the reason he didn’t work some callers, this was a transparent attempt to manipulate the DXCC standings by not working the top guys and using the excuse that they were not following his directions. Obviously, they didn’t get to the top by being poor operators.

As to whether he was actually on/in the places he claimed to be, it’s not unlike operating a remote repeater on/in that entity while not actually being there. A difference with very little distinction.

He asked every night for the same big guns to let unique callers have a shot and they stilled called on the same bands and modes every night.  He finally started making a list in frustration and not working them. 
In the old days, some dx'ers would dupe every day on the same expeditions.  Don realized the value of given contacts to uniques to help all.  There was a lot of people who thought only the strongest signals get the dx. 
They did not follow his directions, not to call once they had him once per band slot. 
They figured it out by calling with calls that weren't theirs and he would quickly reply.  Some of these guys had clout as traffic handlers, because thats what ARRL really cared about at the time, and they made a stink, so the ARRL penned an unnamed editorial in QST and he sued for defamation.  They settled.
He wasn't wrong on ignoring the hogs, but ARRL found issue with the black list. 
Frank KG6N
We’re taking past each other. Yes, he had his list but it was conceived out of malice to manipulate the top of the HR, not just to punish bad actors which, as we know, would be the ultimate irony.
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K1VSK

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Quote
Would a picture help?

How about some perspective from you?

You seem to think they are equivalent.

Would you at least acknowledge the different levels of effort involved?

Apparently, you are more interested in where the guy's butt sits than where the radio does. 

I'm sorry, a remote radio actually on Godforsaken rock is not the same as sipping Mai-Tai's on a beach in Miami and pretending to be on Godforsaken Rock.  In the latter case neither the  butt nor the radio is there.

At least in the Aves Remote Scenario, somebody had to go there and bring the radio ashore.

Can you at least acknowledge the vast difference in effort in those two situations?
Your incessant argumentative behavior is tedious. I already clearly and succinctly explained the difference. What I can’t give you is an understanding.
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KD6KVL

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"We’re taking past each other. Yes, he had his list but it was conceived out of malice to manipulate the top of the HR, not just to punish bad actors which, as we know, would be the ultimate irony."

I don't believe this is why he had the list.  He's admitted to what he did and apologized.  He said why he did it, and I believe him.  I think creative minds and time have manipulated the facts on this.  Many of the old timers of the day are gone, and in 20 years, I'd be surprised if any remain.

Frank KG6N
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Frank KG6N

WO7R

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I already clearly and succinctly explained the difference.

Yes, and to many people, not just me, it doesn't make any sense.

It is akin to contending that manslaughter and murder are the same thing. Well, there are distinctions for those two acts and there's good reason for it.  They are not the same.

I am not asking you to approve either one.  I am asking you to show some actual understanding of the differences.  To do otherwise is to look ridiculous and I would say so even if I agreed neither should be approved.
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K1VSK

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"We’re taking past each other. Yes, he had his list but it was conceived out of malice to manipulate the top of the HR, not just to punish bad actors which, as we know, would be the ultimate irony."

I don't believe this is why he had the list.  He's admitted to what he did and apologized.  He said why he did it, and I believe him.  I think creative minds and time have manipulated the facts on this.  Many of the old timers of the day are gone, and in 20 years, I'd be surprised if any remain.

Frank KG6N

I was “there”. I knew both Charlie Mellon as well as Miller. You are free to believe whatever narrative you choose.
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