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Author Topic: VKØLD/VK6CQ suggests ARRL revoke 3Y0J DXCC Credit for Endangering Life & Limb  (Read 2990 times)

VK6CQ

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Seems that news of 3YØJ's dismal safety performance travels quickly on the diplomatic grapevine:   According to my very reliable contact in the Govt. of South Georgia & South Sandwich Islands in Stanley, Falkland Islands, amateur radio licences for these two locations will now longer be issued and any DXpedition that might be in the pipeline to VPØ, VP8/g & VP8/s will no longer be approved.   Australian, French and New Zealanders will probably go the same way, if not already done so Tusen takk, folkens!

I would very much like to see a public confirmation of this.

The world hasn't worked like this for the whole 30 years I have been a ham.  If these guys going ashore as they did has made this big change, in spite of nothing actually going wrong, it deserves to become better than what amounts to a rumor.  And, it needs some amount of airing out.

When will your well-placed friend (or his boss) make the public announcement?  We do deserve to know.
   
Go ask 'em yourself Larry:  https://www.gov.gs/information/contactus/

Note that since June 2017, the VP8 prefix applied strictly to the Falkland Islands only and the Falklands Post Office stopped issuing licenses for the old Falkland Islands Dependencies (FIDs). Later that year, after persistent lobbying by myself and others, Ofcom (UK version of FCC) finally authorized the use of the new prefix VPØ for amateur licences in the former FIDs, now the two separate British overseas territories of 'South Georgia & South Sandwich Islands' (VP8/g & VP8/s) and 'British Antarctic Territory' (VP8/a, VP8/o & VP8/h). However neither territory has bothered to enact or promulgate the VPØ prefix or issue licences. They still won't even convert my existing VP8PJ/a,g,h,o,s licence to VPØPJ/a,g,h,o,s after three years of me repeatedly knocking on their door. However, I do have a ruling from Ofcom in the UK stating that VP8PJ is still valid for use in the former FIDs (VP8/a,g,h,o,s) so that will have to do for now.

Anyone considering organizing a DX trip to VP8/a,g,h,o or VP8 South Sandwich Islands, my advice is don't waste any of your time or $$$, 'cos after those four 3YØJ guys got themselves marooned on Bouvet for four days and three nights without adequate food & shelter, it definitely ain't gonna happen no more! My contacts at one of my former employers, the Australian Antarctic Division (AAD) in Hobart, Tasmania are now saying the same thing about VKØ/h&m i.e. Heard & McDonald Islands absolutely no chance and any future Macquarie Island amateur activity will be limited to AAD personnel stationed there (as is already the case with VK9/w Australian Bureau of Meteorology (BoM) weather station on Willis Island). Judging by the deliberate bureaucratic obstacles Thierry FT8WW has been faced with recently, looks like the French authorities are following a similar, if not identical, path. 

I don't like it any more than any of you DX chasers out there do, but that's the way it is.
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VK6CQ

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According to my very reliable contact in the Govt. of South Georgia & South Sandwich Islands in Stanley, Falkland Islands, amateur radio licences for these two locations will now longer be issued and any DXpedition that might be in the pipeline to VPØ, VP8/g & VP8/s will no longer be approved. 

Unless they make a large enough campaign contribution to the PM of the UK. 

BTW, who is Prime Minister this week?

No idea - I'm Australian.
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US5WE

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Seems that news of 3YØJ's dismal safety performance travels quickly on the diplomatic grapevine:   According to my very reliable contact in the Govt. of South Georgia & South Sandwich Islands in Stanley, Falkland Islands, amateur radio licences for these two locations will now longer be issued and any DXpedition that might be in the pipeline to VPØ, VP8/g & VP8/s will no longer be approved.
Looks like VK6CQ has achieved his goal to destroy Antarctic DXpeditioning. Bravo!

Give the islands back to Argentina and there will be a lot of Ham Radio activity. :)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2023, 12:43:14 AM by US5WE »
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VK6CQ

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Looks like VK6CQ has achieved his goal to destroy Antarctic DXpeditioning. Bravo!

Give the islands back to Argentina and there will be a lot of Ham Radio activity. :)

Что за..???  Виктор, прочитайте еще раз мое открытое письмо - я не пытаюсь разорить радиолюбительство в Антарктиде!! Я просто говорю, что правительства закроют его, если некоторые невежественные операторы будут игнорировать безопасные операции. Я просто посланник, а не сообщение.

What the? Victor, read my open letter letter again carefully - I'm not trying to ruin amateur radio in Antarctica!! I'm just pointing out that governments will shut it down if some ignorant operators continue to ignore safety.


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G1VDP

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And all because VK6CQ (or any of your other calls) didn't get in the log.

As has been said if this expedition hadn't posted video's, photo's or any other updates on social media this conversation would not be happening. If they had pulled off the planned activation and done what they had planned to do this conversation would not be happening.

And if the ARRL do revoke the 3Y0J accreditation then they need to do it for BS7H, all the 1S activations, 3Y0X, and the other numerous activations of any "dangerous DXCC". Oh and with that all your activations from down there also need revoking.

If you Mr VK6CQ had the intentions of closing down all activations to the South Atlantic - which it seems you may have because of your selfish "I am not in log" attitude then well done for killing off DXing around the world, simply because no one will go anywhere just because of your selfish attitude.

As for the international rescue (and I don't mean Thunderbirds), that could have been triggered by any number of Expeditions, not just amateur radio, but exploration by scientists and the many hundreds of Antarctic Cruises. What if a British Antarctic Survey boat had a major engine failure, or even an Australian Antarctic Survey boat of which you know everything about, and there was a major operation would you be saying "they didn't follow safety rules so should be charged by the country for all the costs"?

As I opened this "rant" it is all because you didn't get in the log - neither did I.

Chris Colclough
G1VDP

P.S. Not just this open letter, but all the other selfish attitudes surrounding this DXpedition by people who didn't make the log have killed Amateur Radio for me. All the QRMers, all the constant callers, all the armchair DXers making comments, and all the p**cks (like VK6CQ). My kit will be up for sale and G1VDP will not be heard in any pile ups on any mode.
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VK6CQ

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And all because VK6CQ (or any of your other calls) didn't get in the log.

As has been said if this expedition hadn't posted video's, photo's or any other updates on social media this conversation would not be happening. If they had pulled off the planned activation and done what they had planned to do this conversation would not be happening.

And if the ARRL do revoke the 3Y0J accreditation then they need to do it for BS7H, all the 1S activations, 3Y0X, and the other numerous activations of any "dangerous DXCC". Oh and with that all your activations from down there also need revoking.

If you Mr VK6CQ had the intentions of closing down all activations to the South Atlantic - which it seems you may have because of your selfish "I am not in log" attitude then well done for killing off DXing around the world, simply because no one will go anywhere just because of your selfish attitude.

As for the international rescue (and I don't mean Thunderbirds), that could have been triggered by any number of Expeditions, not just amateur radio, but exploration by scientists and the many hundreds of Antarctic Cruises. What if a British Antarctic Survey boat had a major engine failure, or even an Australian Antarctic Survey boat of which you know everything about, and there was a major operation would you be saying "they didn't follow safety rules so should be charged by the country for all the costs"?

As I opened this "rant" it is all because you didn't get in the log - neither did I.

Chris Colclough
G1VDP

P.S. Not just this open letter, but all the other selfish attitudes surrounding this DXpedition by people who didn't make the log have killed Amateur Radio for me. All the QRMers, all the constant callers, all the armchair DXers making comments, and all the p**cks (like VK6CQ). My kit will be up for sale and G1VDP will not be heard in any pile ups on any mode.

Chris: OUCH!! I sense a lot of hurt, anger and frustration in there. Why spend time checking the 3YØJ on-line log to see if VK6CQ or any of my other callsigns are 'in the log' unless you'd taken an instant dislike to me or what I was saying and were looking for a reason to justify or bolster that dislike?
 
You're barking up the wrong tree because your rant is full of misconceptions about me from the word go. I'd prefer not to bore this forum's readership by stating the bleedin' obvious yet again, so will address and put you straight on each of the points you have raised by separate email.

I wouldn't want you to abandon the hobby on my account and who knows, once you actually understand where I'm coming from, you might even apologize for calling me a p**ck !  ;)

One point I will make clear right here and now though: Whatever gave you the idea that I'd be upset, envious, sour grapes or whatever because I'm 'not in the log'? That's merely an assumption on your part. I've never been interested in collecting QSL cards or chasing DXCC and I really couldn't give a monkey's if I'm 'in' or 'not in' the 3YØJ log or anyone else's log for that matter. There's more to Amateur Radio than DXCC and QSL cards, you know.

In the meantime, go take a chill pill and keep a lookout for my email sometime over the weekend.

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US5WE

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What the? Victor, read my open letter letter again carefully - I'm not trying to ruin amateur radio in Antarctica!! I'm just pointing out that governments will shut it down if some ignorant operators continue to ignore safety.
There was no need to translate this to Russian, I speak English fluently.
United bureaucrats and green terrorists will be happy to make more obstacles for Hams world wide and your "open letter" is a perfect instrument for this. If you would have worried about the fate of Ham Radio, the personal letter to 3Y0J DXPedition leaders will  serve the purpose.
But you decided to feed the anti-hamradio trolls.
The difficulties of 3Y0J were extensively discussed among the Russian Arctic DXpeditioners but
none of them could ever imagine to write the public condemnation of either 3Y0J team or Marama crew as YOU did.
Personally I am immensely glad that there are still brave people of European nationality who, like their ancestors, are not afraid to take risks  in order to achieve their goal.
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W3WN

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< snip >
< snip >
Wow.  Talk about "shoot the messenger"

Alan has some valid points on safety.  And unlike many of the Tuesday Morning Quarterbacks chiming in with their "expert" opinions, he actually HAS been there and DOES know what he is talking about.

Blaming him for a potential bureaucratic decision to limit or outright deny future DXpeditions is ridiculous.  It only serves to ratchet up the rancor and continue to sew discord.

Or to put it more succinctly:  Knock it off.  Please.
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EI2GLB

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But when he sent the info to these Bureaucratic's with the aim to discredit they guys and make himself look good then why not blame him, no doubt he copied them on his pile of crap email that he thinks people actually wanted,

He could have sent Ken a email once he got home and said that there was a few issues and maybe you should have done this ect, instead he went for the most important aspect of any DXpedition to get it's credit at DXCC revoked,

That is where the spite and malice is not in the crap that was written about how big his pecker is and that we all should bow to his knowledge of the Antarctic,

Not go straight   
< snip >
< snip >
Wow.  Talk about "shoot the messenger"

Alan has some valid points on safety.  And unlike many of the Tuesday Morning Quarterbacks chiming in with their "expert" opinions, he actually HAS been there and DOES know what he is talking about.

Blaming him for a potential bureaucratic decision to limit or outright deny future DXpeditions is ridiculous.  It only serves to ratchet up the rancor and continue to sew discord.

Or to put it more succinctly:  Knock it off.  Please.
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KD8MJR

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He could have sent Ken a email once he got home and said that there was a few issues and maybe you should have done this ect, instead he went for the most important aspect of any DXpedition to get it's credit at DXCC revoked,


Agree with you on this point.
Only if Ken had acted like an Ass and replied to his private email saying something like no there were no issues and you don't know what your talking about etc.  That is the only time when IMHO it might have been justified to go Public.

Yes lets face it, there where safety problems, but this was a grown mans Dxpedition and anybody could have spoken out or stayed on the boat. 

I remember someone on here, the guy who likes to Dress up saying that there was not going to be any problems when Ken got back.  I pointed out that there was a lot of people that did not like how this Dxpedition was going.
I think there are a lot more people that are going to be getting vocal as the months pass on.

Lets just brace ourselves for the possibility that once one or more team members get home and start to look back at how this played out they may also start to become very vocal.
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N5PG

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Boils down to risk “nothing, gain nothing “ in the end.

Why do bureaucrats have to bless such things?
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WO7R

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Why do bureaucrats have to bless such things?

1.  Because there are plenty of people who, left to their own devices, would shoot the last spotted owl. We are in the middle of one of the great extinction events the planet has ever seen.  Caused not by natural means but by human activity.  Many people are in denial about this to varying degrees.  So, a few hardy souls have blocked off a few of the less valuable bits of land and said "but not here."  Well, a lot of places we want to go are on those less valuable bits of land.  So, we have to persuade them, the inevitable bureaucrats that get put in charge of such things, that we aren't going to, in effect, accidentally shoot the last spotted owl while playing radio.

2.  Because, as has been pointed out, in the modern age, busted adventures are not necessarily left to die or at least rescue themselves as they often did in earlier ages.  Someone is responsible for a given patch of ocean and they tend to be called out when people get into  trouble.  Those things aren't free and it just might be that some bureaucrats may want to vet some of the operations that may cause such things to take place.  I'm not the expert here and it seems a bit rough-and-ready as to how and when these things are actually activated.  Certainly, no one was called in for the first two Bouvet operations or even this one.  But that they can be activated is simply a matter of watching the news and seeing these things happen from time to time.  Some authorities in charge of dangerous places could easily start asking questions of groups like ours.  If they do not do so already.

There are probably other reasons, but those are two of them.

This isn't 1843 anymore.
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K4HB

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One point I will make clear right here and now though: Whatever gave you the idea that I'd be upset, envious, sour grapes or whatever because I'm 'not in the log'? That's merely an assumption on your part. I've never been interested in collecting QSL cards or chasing DXCC and I really couldn't give a monkey's if I'm 'in' or 'not in' the 3YØJ log or anyone else's log for that matter. There's more to Amateur Radio than DXCC and QSL cards, you know.

If anyone cares to check ARRL DXCC Standings, you'll see that VK6CQ is no where to be found. Some hams in Australia don't submit to the ARRL for credits, but submit to the WIA DXCC Standings. Can't find him there either. So when he says he doesn't give a monkey's or a ratsass about QSL cards or DXCC, I believe him. For anyone to say he sent this open letter out of spite for not making it into 3Y0J's log is pure speculation and without merit.

Some of us play this DXCC game, and some don't. Can't say I blame anyone who doesn't need some radio club to bless their QSOs after you submit them, oh yeah, and fill out a form and send them some $$$$$$. I got sucked into this game in the mid 90s, and I've spent enough on postage both ways, plus ARRL fees, to buy a better station.

That being said, l agree with VK6CQ's concerns about safety, proper protocols, and that regulations should be adhered to in the Antarctic regions. An open letter for the whole world to see doesn't seem appropriate. Seems that a letter to the 3Y0J team and the authorities in Norway who OKed this trip would have better served the purpose. But maybe he tried this, or just didn't believe it would influence how future operations to Antarctica would be conducted in future DXpeditions.

I didn't make it into the 3Y0J log either, simply because propagation failed in my area. Saw them on the board a few times, and that was it. No big deal, already had Bouvet confirmed. Just wanted one more band, and would have stopped at that because of the "requests" I saw about not working them again, but none of that matters now. No sour grapes here, I never criticized the crew, and I believe their operation will be approved by DXCC. I see no reason for it not to be approved and hope it is. I've lost credits before, and know the feeling. I've had one operation purged from my credits, and lost 31 Challenge points because of deletions. So I understand the frustration. The very thought that someone wants to undo someone's ATNO will send the DX community into a frenzy. Just relax, let's wait for the final outcome from ARRL, which will likely be positive.
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W2IRT

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l agree with VK6CQ's concerns about safety, proper protocols, and that regulations should be adhered to in the Antarctic regions. An open letter for the whole world to see doesn't seem appropriate.
That's exactly it. Expressing his opinion is fine but he expressed it by dropping a load in the punchbowl, and that's quite the opposite of fine.
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VK6CQ

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What the? Victor, read my open letter letter again carefully - I'm not trying to ruin amateur radio in Antarctica!! I'm just pointing out that governments will shut it down if some ignorant operators continue to ignore safety.
There was no need to translate this to Russian, I speak English fluently.
United bureaucrats and green terrorists will be happy to make more obstacles for Hams world wide and your "open letter" is a perfect instrument for this. If you would have worried about the fate of Ham Radio, the personal letter to 3Y0J DXPedition leaders will  serve the purpose.
But you decided to feed the anti-hamradio trolls.
The difficulties of 3Y0J were extensively discussed among the Russian Arctic DXpeditioners but
none of them could ever imagine to write the public condemnation of either 3Y0J team or Marama crew as YOU did.
Personally I am immensely glad that there are still brave people of European nationality who, like their ancestors, are not afraid to take risks  in order to achieve their goal.
Виктор, я просто практиковал свой русский язык, который выучил в старшей школе много лет назад, но сейчас у меня не так много возможностей его использовать, вот и все. Я не имел в виду какое-то оскорбительное обвинение в том, что ты не умный парень и не можешь бегло говорить по-английски.

Personally, I am immensely glad that all these guys made it back home alive, because some of them very nearly didn't. There is a big difference between bravery and bravado. Kind Regards and 73, Alan VK6CQ VKØLD VP8PJ
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