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Author Topic: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?  (Read 1583 times)

AC1LC

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I decided that I'm going to learn Morse code so I can use CW.  I've signed up for LCWO.net where they use the Koch method - which starts you out trying to read 20wpm.  I do OK on the Morse Machine where I can control the speed by how fast I type in the letter on the keyboard, but when I try to use the lesson where I try to keep up and type the letters at their speed I can make it for about 5 seconds before I'm completely lost.

I tuned in a couple frequencies on 10m this afternoon to listen to some live CW.  They're no where as fast as what the Koch lessons are pushing.

So, do I really need to keep at the 20wpm speed....and get frustrated and not learn anything and give up, or, if I learn at 10 or 15wpm so at least I can communicate in code is that acceptable?  I'm never going to be a speed demon at it, I know that already because my brain doesn't function fast enough but I am trying to learn the letters by sound, not by counting dahs and dits.

I also loaded an app on my iphone where I can listen to the letters (I block out the graphic showing the dashes and dots with my thumb, so it will help me learn them by sound.

I really want to learn code, but it's extremely frustrating not to mention stressful.

What say you CW mavens out there?
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N8NK

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2023, 01:59:20 PM »

Hi there, and I'm SO HAPPY for you! You will not regret learning CW. It's been my best friend for 48 years, mostly at the QRP power level.
I've used CW 99% of my 48 years as a ham, and lately love little more than to encourage others to learn it. I've posted quite a bit of hints, lessons, tips, etc on my YouTube channel if you'ld care to watch. I've talked about character speed vs overall sentence speed, missing characters, etc etc.
Dear ham-
After 48 years using CW 99% of the time, let me be honest with you, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise:
20 WPM, for me, is the perfect speed to copy. Yes, I can copy faster. 35 is pushing it for me, but if the conversation is pretty typical, I'll get most of it. And yet-
At the age of 63, SENDING at 20 WPM is about my limit. And it's not about forming the characters with my Iambic paddles and keyer- it's that I'm hard pressed to think that fast. And I've always been this way. Yep, I can copy 35. But my sending? Let's talk about that:
In normal CW conversation, you don't send like a machine. Nobody does. If they did, I'd get bored and go away. What do you do? You take thinking gaps and breaks.. you send the repeated hyphen -  -  -  as many as you need to catch up mentally -  -  - and you rely on the good old AS sent together. I've done youtube videos on the AS. lol. That's an A run into the S, and it means you're thinking. Send as many as you need. The op on the other end likes it. You'll sound human and interesting.
Moral of my babble: Nobody sends like a machine at 20 WPM. I bet if I'm in a rag chew at 25, my overall speed for any given sentence is 15.
Here's a sample of what I've posted to YouTube. My channel is NOT monetized and rarely do I use outtro music which results in ad placement. I'm in it to share the fun:
First CW QSO - part 1 of 4 - Abbreviations You'll Use + Tips
https://youtu.be/507p5-8IELQ
Take care and..
GL OM - - - CUL es TU de N8NK dit dit
(Chuck)
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N8NK

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2023, 02:10:11 PM »

You inspire me Sir.
Tonight I'm making a video just on this topic. I'm going to be talking specifically about 'sending speed', use of the hyphen, and use of the character AS (normally printed with a bar over them).
I am then going to inlude a mod that I've just done to my awful MFJ-564 Iambic paddles to make them magnetic return. They went from awful and mushy to snappy. No tools needed.
Chuck, N8NK, on YouTube as
N8NK QRP
Be well all...
dit dit
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WO7R

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2023, 02:22:01 PM »

It depends on what you want to do with it.

Generally, DXing largely takes place between 18 and 25 WPM.  Now, you don't need to carry on weighty conversations at that speed to manage it, but it sure helps.  To be able to at least "sprint" a callsign and a few key phrases at 25 WPM will materially matter.  There are also faster operators than that, and you may yet learn to recognize your call sign upwards of 35 WPM, who knows, it's up to you.

Other interests may not require such speeds, but the vast, vast majority of my CW is on "name, rank, and serial number" level DX or also the similar contest QSOs.

You'll find there is a different level of investment in learning to "sprint" like this as opposed to carrying on general conversations, so it may not be as daunting as you currently might think.

The old test checkpoints were set for good human reasons.  If you get yourself to 13 WPM (don't bother with 5), you'll soon be at 18 or so.  To get to one will get you to the other.  Get just over 20 and you can very likely get to at least 25.  But, if you get to 18, you might find you can do the 20 to 25 for at least some DXing and casual contesting at least.  You can then let your speed build up from there.

Also, some DX will slow down to 18 for you.

To get to 13/18, you'll have to recognize CW as individual songs, not discrete dots and dashes. To get to 20, you'll have to be able to hold one or two previous letters in your head while you recognize the next "song".  They are slightly different skills. And, yes, it is work to acquire such skill.  But, the payoffs are great.  You can still work people on CW that you won't get on phone.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2023, 02:26:42 PM by WO7R »
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W7CXC

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2023, 02:45:47 PM »

An opinion..... Learn the characters at a 20 wpm speed even if the spacing between characters makes it say 10 wpm. 73's
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AC2EU

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2023, 02:54:39 PM »

Yes, you do!
it trains you to hear the rhythm or the  sounds rather than dots and dashes.

I'm relatively new at CW, myself and i know what you mean about your brain hurting! I used to break out in a sweat! It get s better with practice.
DO 15-20 minutes a night and you will be amazed how it comes together week by week.

W6MK

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2023, 03:32:39 PM »

So, do I really need to keep at the 20wpm speed....and get frustrated and not learn anything and give up, or, if I learn at 10 or 15wpm so at least I can communicate in code is that acceptable?  I'm never going to be a speed demon at it, I know that already because my brain doesn't function fast enough but I am trying to learn the letters by sound, not by counting dahs and dits.
No you do NOT need to keep at the 20 wpm speed. The Koch method may work for some people but it won't work for all.

Some people quickly and easily recognize rhythmic patterns at relatively high speeds: Morse characters or triplets in music (three notes in the same time as two are usually in the piece).

You may not be able to immediately recognize Morse characters at 20 wpm but may find it very easy to do so at 10 or 15 wpm. If this is so, and you can easily discover this, then continue your practicing at whatever speed works for you.

Many of us in the old days learned Morse Code in all sorts of ways that are considered "wrong" today: we counted dits; we visualized long and short sounds in characters, etc. Eventually, and rather quickly because we weren't told we were doing things "wrong" our speed increased and we went, automatically, from counting dits or dahs to hearing the overall sounds of characters.

The human brain is an organ that LEARNS AUTOMATICALLY." If you start out learning the "wrong" way, you brain AUTOMATICALLY will change how it works so that you learn to hear much more efficiently.

Think of it this way: you are building something which requires counting of groups of fasteners: nails, screws or machine nuts. At first you count them out: one, two, three, four, five. Very quickly, however, you learn what five nails, five screws or five machine nuts look like in a group. You no longer have to count. Same with Morse Code.
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AE0Q

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2023, 05:33:39 PM »

So, do I really need to keep at the 20wpm speed....and get frustrated and not learn anything and give up, or, if I learn at 10 or 15wpm so at least I can communicate in code is that acceptable?
If you learn the character SOUNDS at 20 wpm, it will keep you from counting dots and dashes at 10 wpm  :-)  Being able to count dots will keep you at that slow speed for a LOONG time :-(

CW is sooo much more fun when you just hear it and know what it is, rather than struggling to interpret every combination at 10 wpm.  Let it flow over you at 20 wpm and you will learn it faster!

I would guess that the people you heard going a lot slower are using straight keys.  Unfortunately, that forces you to send slow, which doesn't help your receiving speed increase :-( 
Using a straight key doesn't teach you (or force you) to learn correct timing when sending, either.  But that is another topic for when you have learned most of the characters :-)

Glenn AE0Q
« Last Edit: March 05, 2023, 05:41:29 PM by AE0Q »
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W7XTV

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2023, 06:25:40 PM »

An opinion..... Learn the characters at a 20 wpm speed even if the spacing between characters makes it say 10 wpm. 73's

That's how we learned it back in the "stone age," where the characters were sent at 20 wpm and the spacing was changed for 5 and 13 wpm.  It was also how the FCC code tests were administered.

To this day, even though I haven't operated CW since the early 1990s, I can still copy 13 wpm, and sometimes a bit faster, thanks to that method.  I really have no desire to use it, but you never know when it might come in handy, so I keep my code copying skills up, just in case.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2023, 06:33:23 PM by W7XTV »
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He speaks fluent PSK31, in FT8...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!

K9AO

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2023, 06:45:22 PM »

No. That is not how the FCC tests were administered. When I passed my 13 wpm and 20 wpm sending and receiving tests at an FCC field office they were sent with the correct spacing.

One thing to remember that while the Koch method gets you to not count dots and dashes and that is absolutely essential to learning the code correctly, there really are several brain copying plateaus that have to be passed. There were always plateaus at 7 to 8 wpm, 11 to 12, and 15 to 16 wpm or thereabouts back in the day when the code was sent with the correct spacing for the speed. This is because there really are different brain skills to be learned to copy at these speeds. You bypass these with the Koch method, but if you want to be able to copy at any speed you will have to work through them eventually. Koch gets you a license. It does not teach you the code at 5 to whatever your top eventually ends up being. Properly sent code with element spacing appropriately set for the speed is music to the ears. Learning to copy at these speeds and the correct spacing is worth doing.

You are doing fine now. Just get on the air at a slower speed and have plenty of QSOs. The rest will come with practice and soon enough you'll be where you want to be.

Remember that copying to paper (do this first) is a separate skill from copying to a keyboard and this is a separate skill from copying in your head. You can do any of these, but recognize the different skill and don't be hard on yourself.
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WB1ANA

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2023, 07:37:21 PM »

I'm happy to hear that you're taking up CW - you won't regret it.  It was my only mode of communication as a Novice back in 1977 and for me it was exciting to communicate that way.  I got away from it for years after I upgraded to Advanced, but last year I got back into it with a vengeance and now I rarely use SSB.

Learning code with the letters sent at the higher speed is a good idea and will help you become more proficient faster.  As far as getting on the air, making contacts, rag chewing, etc, I've found that the average code speed runs between 13-20 WPM and that's it.  The super fast ones out there are not as prevalent.

Join the SKCC group - it fosters CW and rewards you for making solid contacts.  I'm hooked and have been having a ball with it.

Lots of luck and see you on the air!

Tom/WB1ANA
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W7XTV

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2023, 08:16:39 PM »

No. That is not how the FCC tests were administered. When I passed my 13 wpm and 20 wpm sending and receiving tests at an FCC field office they were sent with the correct spacing.

Maybe it depends on when and where the tests were administered.  My Novice test, administered by my local ham club in 1970, did exactly what I said they did, because that is how we were taught.  A year later, when I took my General test in front of the FCC in Indianapolis, IIRC they also sent the code at 20 wpm with the proper spacing for 13.  I don't remember the letters being sent any slower than 20.
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He speaks fluent PSK31, in FT8...  One QSO with him earns you 5BDXCC...  His Wouff Hong has two Wouffs... Hiram Percy Maxim called HIM "The Old Man..."  He is... The Most Interesting Ham In The World!

W0RW

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2023, 01:12:57 AM »

Check out "High Speed Morse".
https://www.eham.net/article/41222

Paul  w0rw
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KH6AQ

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2023, 04:14:13 AM »

AC1LC, welcome to the wonderful world of CW. Once you get to where you can copy letters well you can focus on the type of operating you might like to do. QSOs, conversational and contesting. For QSO practice listen to QSOs on the air and make some of your own. For conversational CW -- long strings of text -- you might like online W1AW code practice files. And for contests Morse Runner is excellent.
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WW5F

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2023, 05:07:23 AM »

Wow.  It doesn't look like you *want* to learn Morse code (for the joy of it!).  It sounds like, "I decided that I'm going to get a colonoscopy so I can find out if I have cancer or not.  Do I really need to do it next week?"

Simple answer to your question:  No, you don't have to use the Koch method.  There are at least a couple other ways to learn morse code.  Use your favorite search engine and enter "methods or strategies to learn Morse code".

It's just that the Koch method has demonstrated to be more successful than others.

After that comes words instead of characters.

But today's Morse code operator is usually a "599 TU" operator, so just learning contest exchanges and copying call signs might be all you "need" today.
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