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Author Topic: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?  (Read 1568 times)

W6MK

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2023, 10:15:22 PM »

Quote
Lastly.  Please   ……….  Don’t be sucked into buying one of these bright and shiny Vibroplex “BUGS”.  Most of the worst senders are trying to use a “BUG”.  A great key, but ….. it takes lots of practice get the sending down perfect.  Do get a decent Paddle either single lever or dual.  Again most people never send real Iambic (dual squeeze Paddles) correctly, they just slap the left and right paddles, which is fine, but if most people who try a single arm paddle ( not a BUG ), will get better results, because most people are slappers at heart.  Have fun

Amen! A Bug is just an early "mechanical keyer" before electronic keyers were possible. Other than learning how to use a piece of CW history, I see no need to use one. they require good rhythm and timing from the user. Unfortunately most do not posses this skill or they think the garbage they send is "cool"? Never could figure it out. You will hardly know it's a Bug if  they are a good Bug Op. 

I actually enjoy using my Navy straight key.
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AC1LC

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2023, 06:30:38 AM »

That brings up the next question - straight key or paddles.  From everything I've read bugs and cooties aren't worth the effort.  Some people say start with a straight key, others say start with paddles.  Is it a Ford vs Chevy argument or is one really better than the other to start out with?  Or should this be a whole new post?
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AC2EU

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2023, 07:00:26 AM »

That brings up the next question - straight key or paddles.  From everything I've read bugs and cooties aren't worth the effort.  Some people say start with a straight key, others say start with paddles.  Is it a Ford vs Chevy argument or is one really better than the other to start out with?  Or should this be a whole new post?

I was trying to use paddles at first, but i found it difficult to space the words properly for some reason. I went to straight key where I had to do all of the timing/spacing myself. It improved my sending quite a bit IMO. I still use the straight key more than the paddles, since I top out at 20WPM anyway.

AE0Q

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2023, 08:58:30 AM »

That brings up the next question - straight key or paddles.  From everything I've read bugs and cooties aren't worth the effort.  Some people say start with a straight key, others say start with paddles.  Is it a Ford vs Chevy argument or is one really better than the other to start out with?

Using a straight key doesn't teach you (or force you) to learn correct timing when sending, and your speed will be limited.  Just start out with paddles and a keyer.
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K0UA

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2023, 10:02:02 AM »

That brings up the next question - straight key or paddles.  From everything I've read bugs and cooties aren't worth the effort.  Some people say start with a straight key, others say start with paddles.  Is it a Ford vs Chevy argument or is one really better than the other to start out with?

Using a straight key doesn't teach you (or force you) to learn correct timing when sending, and your speed will be limited.  Just start out with paddles and a keyer.

^ what he said above. A straight key doesn't force you to do anything but send the type of code you send. In other words if you send garbage it will sound like garbage.  Also remember that ALL modern rigs have built in keyer's and you are out only the price of the paddles. The era of needing an external keyer are long gone.  If you are relying on a rig that needs an external keyer, it might be a good time to look into getting a modern rig.
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73  James K0UA

AC1LC

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2023, 10:38:46 AM »

Thanks for the replies.  Dave Casler did a review on these and said they're well built and work well.  Plus they're made in the U.S.  https://cwmorse.us/products/red-double-paddle-with-steel-base
Price isn't too bad so when I'm ready I think I'll give a set a shot and see how I do.
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K5LXP

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2023, 02:07:05 PM »

I think the only choice to make as far as sending equipment goes is single or dual paddle.  Single is easier to master, iambic takes a bit more practice but I liked it better as soon as I tried it.  Straight keys are just miserable to use for either fast CW or long QSO's, especially with the extra concentration needed to maintain timing.  Bugs are a wonder to see someone use competently and there's definitely a nostalgia factor to them, but amount to being a single lever paddle that you still have to manually control timing.  Sending good, fast CW for long periods is nearly effortless with a nice paddle and keyer.  When operating portable or mobile a paddle almost mandatory. 

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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AE0Q

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2023, 04:25:44 PM »

Thanks for the replies.  Dave Casler did a review on these and said they're well built and work well.  Plus they're made in the U.S.  https://cwmorse.us/products/red-double-paddle-with-steel-base
Price isn't too bad so when I'm ready I think I'll give a set a shot and see how I do.
I would stay away from paddles with plastic arms.  If you want that brand, go for the ones with metal arms.
https://cwmorse.us/products/cnc-machined-aluminum-pocket-double-paddle-key

The "feel" you get from plastic arms will not be very precise and will make sending difficult.  AND, they are known for melting if you use them outside on hot days !!
I would recommend two other brands but they cost more...  Send me an email to my QRZ email if you would like other suggestions :-)

Glenn AE0Q
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ZL1BBW

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2023, 11:50:04 AM »

Righto, here are MTCW.

Learning on a good solid hand key has been the traditional way, since for ever.  The argument has always been that it encourages that inbuilt clock to take over and help form good sending habits, I certainly leant that way.

I think it is possibly only of real benefit if you need to be a wide speed spread operator, not just a keyer set at 23wpm.

My first morse test on a hand key was at 12 wpm for 3 minutes with max 4 errors, my last test on a hand key was at 28 wpm for 5 minutes with no errors, corrected or otherwise.

As for receiving, we were taught to receive upto maybe 10 wpm before getting a touch of a key, we had to get to 12wpm absolutely solid so that meant 15wpm sent correctly timed and spaced for the speed.

Many people say they can copy at xyz speed, show me the copy, hard paper copy is what we were taught for, not conversational chit chat, so yes accuracy was and I still maintain is an important part of cw, especially if thinking of it as a last ditch method of communication.

If you can hold a nice steady qso at 18 wpm you will find a host of takers, and it will be enjoyable, as time progresses your speed will increase, but hopefully you formation and accuracy will improve as time goes on.

Someone mentioned a visual display of code formation, we used to have an inker, I understand there is something available for one screen, but think it only shows one letter,  I wonder if a decoder set up fairly tight would work? or are they even capable of having the receive dot dash ratio adjusted.

Have a listen to the ARRL code runs they appear to be nice morse, also some pre recorded ones are nice, I personally loath the idea of spac i n  g i  t  ou t to make the overall time correct.

Aim to send well, if your know you are sending crap then stop, and go off air and sort it out, and never ever rely on the opinion of the same one person, I have heard and endured disastrous results from that.

Finally now its meant to be fun, for me, getting to 28wpm, passing the French translation exam plus a few other bits meant a substantial pay rise, encouragement indeed.

GL  Gavin



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K6JH

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2023, 01:40:40 PM »

Thanks for the replies.  Dave Casler did a review on these and said they're well built and work well.  Plus they're made in the U.S.  https://cwmorse.us/products/red-double-paddle-with-steel-base
Price isn't too bad so when I'm ready I think I'll give a set a shot and see how I do.
I would stay away from paddles with plastic arms.  If you want that brand, go for the ones with metal arms.
https://cwmorse.us/products/cnc-machined-aluminum-pocket-double-paddle-key

The "feel" you get from plastic arms will not be very precise and will make sending difficult.  AND, they are known for melting if you use them outside on hot days !!
I would recommend two other brands but they cost more...  Send me an email to my QRZ email if you would like other suggestions :-)

Glenn AE0Q



Cool. I didn’t realize they did aluminum also.


Can you make your other suggestions here? There are some of us lurkers here wondering also!
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73
Jim K6JH

K0RS

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2023, 05:13:06 PM »

You're gonna have people tell you "everyone's different" when it comes to learning code, but they're not.  There are, however, some recurring themes.  WO7R and K0UA related some of their struggles when leaning code.  I don't recognize their particular problems. That isn't to say code was easy for me, but my experiences more parallel W6MK's.  The more I used CW the faster I got.  It was (more or less) a continuous process.  I may at times have felt like I reached some minor plateaus, namely 10 and 15 wpm, but it was never a big deal.  Hell, I even learned the code visually first, supposedly a big no-no according to the guys who want to tell you "That's wrong, you gotta do it this way."  But there wasn't much choice when I was cribbing ham radio literature in study hall and pretending to be studying.  Well, I was studying, just not algebra.

Here's the thing: I never used recordings, tape or a computer to learn code.  From the time I cold barely copy 5 wpm, all my practice was on the air.  I wanted to use CW to make QSOs, so that's what I did.  This has a double advantage.  First, there's a powerful motivation to copy correctly when some is talking directly to you.  It's embarrassing to ask for repeats.  Secondly, it puts your copy in the context in which you're going to be using it.  QRN, QRM, fading, et al.  You learn to deal with it.  You learn your radio's features, filters and interference fighting tools.  W1AW code practice was particularly helpful when not making two way QSOs.

When I was a novice, I was fortunate to stumble upon a used, tube type Hallicrafters HA-1 keyer.  This was more difficult than modern keyers as it had no element memory...so your keying had to be accurate enough to match the speed at which the keyer was set.  Nevertheless, it was such an improvement over my J-38 that it was unbelievable.  To this day, I loathe straight keys.  Yeah, I know.  There're guys that love 'em.  And they can have 'em.  When someone tells you that you need to learn on a straight key first, what they are usually, really saying is, "I had to do it that way, so you should too."  So yeah, use a keyer.  YMMV, but I doubt it.


« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 05:24:14 PM by K0RS »
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W6MK

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2023, 05:15:26 PM »

Righto, here are MTCW.

Learning on a good solid hand key has been the traditional way, since for ever.  The argument has always been that it encourages that inbuilt clock to take over and help form good sending habits, I certainly leant that way.

I think it is possibly only of real benefit if you need to be a wide speed spread operator, not just a keyer set at 23wpm.

My first morse test on a hand key was at 12 wpm for 3 minutes with max 4 errors, my last test on a hand key was at 28 wpm for 5 minutes with no errors, corrected or otherwise.

As for receiving, we were taught to receive upto maybe 10 wpm before getting a touch of a key, we had to get to 12wpm absolutely solid so that meant 15wpm sent correctly timed and spaced for the speed.

So well-put! I wish I could do the same.

The argument is, indeed, about what kind of operator one works, ultimately, to become. If it is to be a wide-range-speed operator, who can send (and receive) Morse Code clearly with any key and/or keyer setup, then it is the best route.

Quickest method to be able participate in a CW contest, perhaps not. Most understanding and enjoyment of the art of Morse Code, very likely.
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AE0Q

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #42 on: March 08, 2023, 06:02:11 PM »

Can you make your other suggestions here? There are some of us lurkers here wondering also!
Oh boy, everyone has their personal preferences.  But I'll sum up mine by saying that for 50 years I've used dual paddles with springs for the resistance to moving each arm.  Some have one spring between the two arms with one adjustment for the force, some have two springs that are each adjustable.  My favorite of all those is the Jones Key PK-200 I got from England, but now out of production for 20-odd years.  I have also had a few Vibroplex Iambic Standard paddles (and still do have one), the contacts of both of those are gold plated.  The bases are all pretty heavy so the paddles (about 3 lbs total) don't move around,  unless on a slippery table.

When I started operating portable from the car in 2020 I decided right away I needed something with a better anchor, so I got a Begali Magnetic Traveler Light.  It comes with a leg strap and has "legs" or arms  that close in around the body to protect it when moving around.  It's about 1.5 pounds, too heavy for backpacking and a little light for use on a table without a sticky pad under it.  Wow, since then I'm sold on the magnetic action paddles.  I also got a Begali Sculpture (used), a heavy magnetic action iambic, the Begali's have gold contacts.  Then last year a friend sent me his N3ZN ZN-9+ iambic, also a magnetic action with silver contacts.  So between them I've decided I really do like the 'feel' of the magnetic action better than the ones with springs.

I never thought I would like any paddles better than my Jones Key, but there it is, the ZN-9+ is my favorite now unless at a park :-)  The magnetic actions have a crisp "break" feel rather than a progressive push.
Most paddles have plastic or carbon fiber or aluminum finger pieces, all seem OK, the actual lever arms are some kind of metal.  I would stay away from any paddles that use a steel screw end or head for the contacts, they won't be very reliable and can easily become intermittent.  Brass seems to be OK as long as you slide a piece of paper between the contacts while gently holding them closed to clean them occasionally.

One model of magnetic action I wouldn't recommend, the Vibroplex Code Warrior Jr, they just didn't cut it :-(  I did try them for a while, though...

So those are just my opinions :-)
Glenn AE0Q
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 06:23:34 PM by AE0Q »
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AE0Q

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #43 on: March 08, 2023, 06:19:35 PM »

The more I used CW the faster I got.
I totally agree, being on the air as a Novice my code speed went up every day, it seemed !!

Quote
When I was a novice, I was fortunate to stumble upon a used, tube type Hallicrafters HA-1 keyer.  This was more difficult than modern keyers as it had no element memory...so your keying had to be accurate enough to match the speed at which the keyer was set.  Nevertheless, it was such an improvement over my J-38 that it was unbelievable.  To this day, I loathe straight keys.

That's so funny!  I was a Novice for 2 months when I got an ugly homemade clone of the HA-1 (tubetype keyer) for nothing at a St. Paul Radio Club swap meet, I made iambic paddles from two back-to-back Japanese straight keys and haven't used a straight key since :-)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 06:26:56 PM by AE0Q »
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K0RS

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #44 on: March 08, 2023, 06:45:02 PM »

Quote
I never thought I would like any paddles better than my Jones Key, but there it is, the ZN-9+ is my favorite now unless at a park

I've gravitated to N3ZN keys too and now have four!  I'm using ZN-SL (single lever) rather than the 9 or 9+.  These of course are magnetic as well.  The old HA-1 and Vibroplex VibroKeyer made a confirmed single lever guy of me.
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