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Author Topic: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?  (Read 1583 times)

K5LXP

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2023, 07:08:24 AM »

While on the topic of preference, I too find the magnetic iambics have a nice feel.  I bought a bencher hex key when they first came out and for the price then it couldn't be beat.  For portable stationary use I have a porta paddle and for hiking, a palm mini as it stays protected in it's housing when in a pack.  Some scotch dual lock on one side and magnets on the other puts it wherever I need it.  My mobile paddle is an elecraft KXPD3 mounted next to the radio control head.  It's a sturdy and compact paddle but still a good feel.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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WO7R

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2023, 12:18:36 PM »

Quote
That brings up the next question - straight key or paddles.

Try both.  Honestly, I had a nice bencher straight key, a real tank, but I got tired easily.  I went to the "standard" bencher paddles and never looked back.  But, someone else will promptly tell you "straight keys forever."

Find some reasonably priced keys (the two Bencher keys I cited above are widely available at hamfests and elsewhere for reasonable sums) and see what you think.  There are also a lot of clever, portable keys out there, but while they are great if you do POTA or something, they sometimes fly around the desktop and can therefore be difficult to work with.  Still, I used a "bulldog" key for a lot of years despite its imperfections, including some expeditions.  It was basically a cleverly designed paper clip.  That was 35 bucks well spent.

But, then a friend of mine lent me his Begali key and that's what I now use.  Not cheap, but if you are dedicated enough to the craft, worth the money.  Your keying will be more accurate with a key like that.  However, that really shouldn't be the first key one buys.  Not until you know what you really want.
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KH6AQ

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2023, 12:48:03 PM »

I decided that I'm going to learn Morse code so I can use CW.  I've signed up for LCWO.net where they use the Koch method - which starts you out trying to read 20wpm.  I do OK on the Morse Machine where I can control the speed by how fast I type in the letter on the keyboard, but when I try to use the lesson where I try to keep up and type the letters at their speed I can make it for about 5 seconds before I'm completely lost.

I tuned in a couple frequencies on 10m this afternoon to listen to some live CW.  They're no where as fast as what the Koch lessons are pushing.

So, do I really need to keep at the 20wpm speed....and get frustrated and not learn anything and give up, or, if I learn at 10 or 15wpm so at least I can communicate in code is that acceptable?  I'm never going to be a speed demon at it, I know that already because my brain doesn't function fast enough but I am trying to learn the letters by sound, not by counting dahs and dits.

I also loaded an app on my iphone where I can listen to the letters (I block out the graphic showing the dashes and dots with my thumb, so it will help me learn them by sound.

I really want to learn code, but it's extremely frustrating not to mention stressful.

What say you CW mavens out there?

Learning CW takes work for many of us. And yes, one's brain can "hurt" after extended high speed CW copying. Mine does and it's as if the "CW copying part" gets squeezed. As to being stressful, I found actual contests and Morse Runner CW contest practice to be quite stressful until I reached Morse Runner QSO #4000 at which time something "clicked" and it all became so much easier. You are learning at 20 wpm and I recommend using 25 WPM characters per the CWops courses. So, you might set a goal and work towards it. Something like comfortable 25 wpm QSOs and 30 wpm contest operation. An hour a day in 15 minutes sessions will up your speed.
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K3TN

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2023, 03:36:38 AM »

In his book Outliers, Malcom Gladwell popularized the idea that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to master a complex skill. That's a long time - if you do CW for 5 hours per week, it would take about 40 years!

So, let's paraphrase that rule to 10,000 letters in Morse - that will only take 8 weeks at 20 wpm*, but twice as long at 10 wpm!

* All estimates in the above are OTIC**, void where prohibited by law and have a long list of side effects, such as divorce.

** Obviously Tongue in Cheek

73 John K3TN
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John K3TN

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2023, 06:03:57 AM »

Believe it or not it's starting to take...

I found that using the Morse Machine on LCWO.net combined with K6RAU's website lessons works best for me.  I tried keeping up with the 20wpm rate for the Koch trainer and it's no bueno.  But, using the Morse Machine is helping learn the letters by sound and seeing that I can type I can speed up as I'm doing it.  I have the code rate still set at 20wpm but having the pause that I control by typing the letter gives me the time to recognize the sound and type it.  Hopefully once I learn all the letters and numbers my receive speed will increase.  I tried slowing the Koch trainer down to 15wpm and it seemed too slow.  I found it was easier to recognize the sounds of the letters at the faster 20wpm rate.  I'm not giving up...practice, practice, practice.  And they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks!
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KF0QS

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #50 on: March 14, 2023, 05:16:40 PM »

First, a little about me.  I was first licensed in 1968 as a Novice.  I passed the 5 wpm test and couldn't wait to get my general so I could get off of the damn code.  Once I passed my general (and passed the 13 wpm test), I was all SSB all the time.  Then I went through a long period of time where I was QRT (school, jobs, apartment living, marriage, etc.).  Through the 16 years I was QRT, as I thought about ham radio, I realized my best memories were of CW operation, not SSB.  So, when I came back, I became all CW all the time and have been that way since then (1991).  I got my Extra in 2001, a few months before they eliminated the 20wpm requirement, and passed the code test with ease (I never even realized I could copy at that speed until I took the test).  Today, I do well at 20-25 wpm, and when working DX or in a contest, I can speed up.  I frequently have CW ragchews that last over an hour.

I want to encourage as many people as possible to get on CW.  The pleasure in a good CW QSO is the fact that, for it to work, both operators have to work together.  In other words, a CW QSO cannot be one-sided.  It's a collaboration.  But boy, if I get a good CW op on the other side, it's a pleasure.

I learned the code back in 1968 through a very patient mentor with a code practice oscillator.  He started us out by saying; "I'm going to send an 'A'.  Here it is.  Dit-dah.  Now, every time I send you that, write down an "a"."  He sent us that about 10 times in a row, and each time, we wrote down an "a".  Then, he said; "Now, I'm going to send a 'b'.  It's Dah-dit-dit-dit.  Each time I send that, I want you to write a 'b'."  He sent us a 'b' ten times in a row, and each time, he sent us a b, we wrote it down.  All of a sudden, he sent 'dit-dah' and without thinking, we all wrote down 'a'.  You get the idea.  He did about half the alphabet the first night, and then the second half in the second night.  He was sending very slow.  Once we got the alphabet and the numbers down (going slow, the numbers aren't hard), he told us frequencies to go to and listen to QSO's and start copying them.  I was religious about copying many QSO's and after a while, I was good enough to pass the 5 wpm test.

I am horrified at the idea of making people who don't know the code start learning at 20 wpm.  It sounds crazy to me.  But to each his own.

For those of you who have patient instructors, or perhaps can adjust a computer program to 4-5 wpm, I recommend learning the way I did, i.e., learning the alphabet and the numbers, and then copying slow QSO's off the air live.  The frequencies I recommend for slow speed code are right around 7.050, 14.050 and 21.050.  You'll find plenty of slow speed QSO's to copy.  Also, don't forget the W1AW code practice sessions.

Make it fun.  It's supposed to be a hobby, not a chore.  And if you work me and need me to QRS, I will be most happy to accommodate you.

73 and hope to see you on the air!
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WS0SWV

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2023, 07:14:22 PM »

I am also learning CW.   I started by just learning the letters and numbers individually at 15 wpm.  Then used a program called G4FON (free download on windows pc) to practice 15 wpm character speed with 5 wpm spacing.  I stepped up to 20 wpm spacing to help me learn the sound instead of counting dots and dahs.  It helped a lot.   I actually prefer that character speed now and am getting to where I know what compete words sound like.  I got much better when I started listening to the Morse code ninja podcast.   Keep it up.  We’ll get there. 
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KL7CW

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2023, 11:28:08 PM »

I have been 99% CW since 1954. Although most of us did everything wrong back then, we survived and enjoyed CW.  Personally I do not think 20 WPM is a magic character speed, but I do believe you should push the character speed a little, and increase it over  time.  If 20 WPM hurts your brain, try a character speed of say 15 or 18 awhile.  I have used many types of keys, and paddles both for ham and some ship and shore station maritime work. If I were starting out now, for sure I would buy a mid priced single lever paddle.  Skip the Iambic thing, lots of work to feel comfortable, but I wanted the challenge and had too many expensive dual lever paddles.  A friend watched me send Iambic squeeze keying, at 30 + WPM and he said as my speed increased I stopped squeezing some of the letters.  Personally I have good magnetic and spring return paddles, and could be happy with either, although I MIGHT have a very slight preference for the magnetic ones.  For portable work I am comfortable with compromise paddles, but for extended home use prefer something better.  Probably you can find something used or new for perhaps $100 to $200, but for sure you do not need a $600 paddle, I have used them, and my 200 to 300 dollar paddles are in all respects very nearly equal.  I started out writing down everything, but within perhaps 6 months only made brief notes with a pencil.  Example, Bob, Chicago, Teacher,  Retired, Fisherman,  10 watt TX.  You get the idea.  I eventually got my certificates up to about 25 WPM writing very fast, but tried typewriter, no luck.  (could type over 70 WPM).  Signed on as a CW op on a ship, my head and hand hurt, since the master wanted all the WX for the whole western hemisphere I think twice a day.  Sometimes the shore stations would send it faster, and I would need to skip dinner and find another station to fill in the things I missed, then type out a few pages.  I practiced lots for about 2 days on the ship, and within another day or so I could just type it out and hand it in, then go to officers mess and stuff my face !!   Being able to type it out helped, when I was a shore station op for about 3 months, but I never type my ham stuff out, except in a contest where you have software, and can even do great by hunt and peck typing.  It takes many (hundreds?) ((thousands ?) of hours to learn to concentrate in a noisy environment and to be able to answer a simple question from my wife, like when do you want to eat, and I just say seven, while listening to code, or sending.  I suspect most never get this skill, so do not worry, if it happens great.   Just enjoy your ham CW career, in contests 30 to 40 WPM is common, but generally rag chews are perhaps 15 to perhaps 22 WPM.  I often operate portable QRP and 7 to 15 WPM is common at times.  You will probably write down everything for awhile, then just brief notes.  I think all of us would write out what to say before we even made our first QSO's.....takes the pressure off.  Before long you will begin recognizing letters instead of dots and dashes, but it may take longer, probably well over a year before you start to hear words, but you can have years of fun without this skill. True head copy probably only happens when you are comfortable at moderate to higher speeds, probably over or well over 20 WPM.  I bought some books on a CD decades ago at I think something like 30 or 35 WPM and it was fun to just sit back and listen, but again this will not happen anytime soon, or perhaps never for some folks.  My ideal ham activity is QRP from a park or trail, and nice long rag chews at perhaps 15 WPM preferably with someone less than 1000 miles distance. I have made DX QSO's but it is hard with QRP and a compromise antenna.                Rick  KL7CW
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US7IGN

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2023, 01:18:40 PM »

I am also used LCWO for learning Morse and did it at 15 WPM. First I learned to receive by typing on the keyboard. Then I learned again by writing down on paper. Then I had to learn again on the real air. It took me a year to do this and I spent at least 30 minutes almost every day on it. Then in order to improve my speed, I started taking part in competitions every weekend. After another 3 years, I reached 25 WPM. Good luck and see you on the air!
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W9RAC

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2023, 02:21:09 AM »

As many have mentioned here, it depends on what you plan or think you are going to plan on doing with the code. If your goal is to become a proficient rag chew Op. then it is not likely you will need the 20wmp skill, but it helps.  Most rag chews are more 16-18 wpm and depending on where you are maybe less. You are not going to hear many Ops sending at 20 with mechanical keys. Some do who should be sending around 12 tho. If you learn at 20 or so (which is far best, so you do not count) then decoding@17 is EZ. If you learn only by paddle or computer code, you will struggle when you encounter mechanical keys. If you learn listening to both types, you will be far better prepared in the real world. Just some thoughts of mine, 73 Rich W9RAC
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N2HUN

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2023, 04:43:51 AM »

In my opinion as a CW op for over 40 years there's no need to learn to copy at 20 WPM unless it's you're  personal goal.  It helps if you want to copy others sending at 20 WPM which tend to be more prevalent in the first 25 kHZ of the ham bands.  I've been comfortable at 17 WPM (using an MFJ Morse Tutor) for many years but when it hits 20 WPM my brain forgets the letters/words before I can write them down hihi. 

If you want a real CW workout listen to 4XZ, the Israeli Navy CW, on 6.607 MHZ.  Good luck OM.
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AE0Q

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2023, 07:42:29 PM »

If your goal is to become a proficient rag chew Op. then it is not likely you will need the 20wmp skill, but it helps.  Most rag chews are more 16-18 wpm and depending on where you are maybe less.

And

In my opinion as a CW op for over 40 years there's no need to learn to copy at 20 WPM unless it's you're  personal goal.

Well, I have to say I'm shocked to see hams saying most people rag chew on CW at less than 20 wpm and that's all you need to try to do!!  I had my Novice license for 2 months and I was already copying and sending faster than that.  There are thousands, thousands of hams world wide that are conversant a LOT faster than at 20 wpm.  Yes, we use electronic keyers or bugs, what is wrong with making CW more fun?

I really don't understand this encouraging hams to use S L O W  CW...

Glenn AE0Q
« Last Edit: March 19, 2023, 07:45:51 PM by AE0Q »
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US7IGN

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2023, 12:43:03 AM »

I really don't understand this encouraging hams to use S L O W  CW...

I've noticed that it's harder for me to transmit at low speeds. Although I do not transmit faster than 18 WPM on a straight key. It is also more difficult to maintain intervals and the code becomes jagged, which further complicates the receiving. It seems to me that I will not be able to receive at a speed of 5 WPM at all. I will not hear sound of character.
It's probably a matter of personal comfort, but I've noticed that most of my QSO happen at 18-20 WPM. That is, other operators also use this speed.
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N8TGQ

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2023, 03:12:55 PM »

AE0Q:Well, I have to say I'm shocked to see hams saying most people rag chew on CW at less than 20 wpm and that's all you need to try to do!!  I had my Novice license for 2 months and I was already copying and sending faster than that.


Well I'm shocked that you're shocked OM! I've been 95% CW for 30 years and seldom go more than 15 WPM to thousands more hams.

Ham radio is a hobby that's supposed to be fun. Get on the air, at the speed most comfortable for you, and ENJOY yourself! You don't have to conform to anyone's standards but your own. It's great to get suggestions, but that's all they are.

I don't advocate fast or slow CW. Relax. HAVE FUN! Find your speed and go for it. If I hear you, I'll work you whatever speed you want.

N8TGQ Rick
« Last Edit: March 27, 2023, 03:24:12 PM by N8TGQ »
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WS0SWV

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Re: My brain hurts.... do you really need to learn code at 20wpm?
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2023, 05:31:52 PM »

That brings up the next question - straight key or paddles.  From everything I've read bugs and cooties aren't worth the effort.  Some people say start with a straight key, others say start with paddles.  Is it a Ford vs Chevy argument or is one really better than the other to start out with?  Or should this be a whole new post?

My experience is that the straight key was more intuitive and I made fewer keying errors.  I made an an iambic key from some 12 ash solid copper wire and a rifle case.  I tried it as an iambic, cootie and straight key.  Very easy to make.  With that experience I bought a speedx straight key form a seller on this site.  I continue to tinker with the iambic but keep going back to the straight key.  One newb to another.  Your mileage may vary. 
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