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Author Topic: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal  (Read 2177 times)

KD8MJR

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2023, 02:26:20 PM »

Yes you can. A tech can operate my station using my call, he just has to stay on the tech portion. Same for a general.
Extra can transmit the same as me.

You missed the point.
They don't allow it because there is no way for them to Verify that the person who made the contact is even a Ham Operator much less an Extra.  All they have is the Logged contact with your call sign and no clue as to who the real operator was.  That is why they do not want it to be allowed.
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KJ4Z

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2023, 02:44:15 PM »

there is no way for them to Verify that the person who made the contact is even a Ham Operator much less an Extra.  All they have is the Logged contact with your call sign and no clue as to who the real operator was.

And from the perspective of an outside party, this differs from a regular DX contact... how?  Only because you know the guy couldn't have been seated at his station because he was at Bouvet.  Do we want a rule where contacts count unless someone who's pissed off at you can prove you were somewhere else when the QSO was made?

Do we really want to impeach the integrity of teams that have given us, collectively, millions of rare QSOs?
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KD8MJR

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2023, 02:56:55 PM »

there is no way for them to Verify that the person who made the contact is even a Ham Operator much less an Extra.  All they have is the Logged contact with your call sign and no clue as to who the real operator was.

And from the perspective of an outside party, this differs from a regular DX contact... how?  Only because you know the guy couldn't have been seated at his station because he was at Bouvet.  Do we want a rule where contacts count unless someone who's pissed off at you can prove you were somewhere else when the QSO was made?

Do we really want to impeach the integrity of teams that have given us, collectively, millions of rare QSOs?

This is why arguing on eHam is kind of pointless.  Read my previous post.  I said I think they should just automatically get the Confirmation if they are the ones on the Dxpedition.

You got my point about why the ARRL would not want to endorse any kind of activity that involves a persons call sign being used by a third party, but instead of just letting it go you decided you needed to turn it into something else and attack me.  You ever wonder why so many of the really good members we had on here 6-10 years ago are gone.  The guys that use to make this place Interesting!
Most of them I have talked to via email say everything is fine, they are just tired of the old guys on eHam continuously having pissing matches.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 03:02:02 PM by KD8MJR »
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KJ4Z

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2023, 03:00:54 PM »

You get my point about why the ARRL would not want to endorse any kind of activity that involves the Mic being used by a third party but instead of just letting it go you decided you needed to turn it into something else and attack me.

I'm not attacking you at all.  I'm asking you to clarify how this rule could ever be practically applied.  None of us know, really, who is on the other side of the QSO.  We have to take it on faith.
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K1VSK

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2023, 03:36:55 PM »

Dxpeditions have been padding logs with their own callsigns forever. Suggesting the League apply selective enforcement if the rules prohibit that is both ludicrous and implausible.
Never did it before. Isn’t going to change now. It’s been this way for decades.

This is all - too much free time and nothing else to do - hour here on eHam. Let the pontificating continue…
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KD8MJR

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2023, 04:02:10 PM »

I'm not attacking you at all.  I'm asking you to clarify how this rule could ever be practically applied.  None of us know, really, who is on the other side of the QSO.  We have to take it on faith.

In section 11 they address the fact that they really have no way to verify.  Given that is the case it is easy to see why they are just clearly stating that it's not allowed.  Any ambiguity in the rules would just lead to a free for all.
It just might be the bad luck of the 3Y0J operators that they could not cover their tracks and even though the ARRL might not want to do something they may be forced to.  Unfortunately this DXpedition seems to have developed a cult following that will not give them a break.







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W9IQ

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2023, 04:56:07 PM »

In section 11 they address the fact that they really have no way to verify.  Given that is the case it is easy to see why they are just clearly stating that it's not allowed.  Any ambiguity in the rules would just lead to a free for all.
It just might be the bad luck of the 3Y0J operators that they could not cover their tracks and even though the ARRL might not want to do something they may be forced to.  Unfortunately this DXpedition seems to have developed a cult following that will not give them a break.

I do not understand your point. Read rule 10:

Quote from: ARRL DXCC rules
10.  All contacts must be made using call signs issued to the same station licensee. Contacts made by an operator other than the licensee must be made from a station owned and usually operated by the licensee, and must be made in accordance with the regulations governing the license grant.

They don't require verification but they clearly allow other legitimate operators.

- Glenn W9IQ
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- Glenn W9IQ

God runs electromagnetics on Monday, Wednesday and Friday by the wave theory and the devil runs it on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday by the Quantum theory.

N0UN

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2023, 10:01:42 PM »

I remember seeing one of the "Island Team" on the K1N Navassa DXpedition with 20 Q's in his log.

It's been going on for decades.

NØUN
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WO7R

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2023, 11:06:15 PM »

Quote
I remember seeing one of the "Island Team" on the K1N Navassa DXpedition with 20 Q's in his log.

It's been going on for decades.

Indeed.

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VK3KTT

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2023, 06:04:36 AM »


read EI5DI's manifesto on remote operating link in his qrz page sounds to my like he views are highly weighted.
surprise surprise i dont find him in 3y0j log.



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10m dx'er
is sdr the future i dont know

vk3ktt/k3ktt

VE3VEE

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2023, 09:52:56 AM »


read EI5DI's manifesto on remote operating link in his qrz page sounds to my like he views are highly weighted.
surprise surprise i dont find him in 3y0j log.

I guess for him even AM and FM radio stations and also TV stations are not real radio and real TV if their studios and their transmitters are not located at the same address.  ;D ;D ;D

Marvin VE3VEE
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KD6KVL

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2023, 10:28:58 AM »

You want to hear unethical?  There was ham some years back that work Palmyra over a hundred times with club calls, personal call, friends calls....Sometimes it better to mind our own business and concentrate on our efforts and not the success or failures of others.
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Frank KG6N

NU1O

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2023, 10:49:48 AM »

You want to hear unethical?  There was ham some years back that work Palmyra over a hundred times with club calls, personal call, friends calls....Sometimes it better to mind our own business and concentrate on our efforts and not the success or failures of others.

Yeah, but that wouldn't be any fun.  ;D
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KD8MJR

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2023, 12:18:03 PM »

Read it again, even the ARRL guys had to read it a few times before they said that it did not count.


I do not understand your point. Read rule 10:

10.  All contacts must be made using call signs issued to the same station licensee.

Meaning any Contacts made using a call sign must be a call sign issued to the Stations Licensed owner.

Quote
Contacts made by an operator other than the licensee must be made from a station owned and usually operated by the licensee, and must be made in accordance with the regulations governing the license grant.

They don't require verification but they clearly allow other legitimate operators.

- Glenn W9IQ

As they said Section 11 Clarifies the whole thing in case there is doubt.
Are you ignoring section 11?

" It is never OK to remotely use a station outside of the 'home DXCC entity' to add to the home-entity DXCC totals -- just as it is never OK for you to ask someone else at another station in another place to make QSOs for you."

CAN IT REALLY GET ANY CLEARER THAN THAT !!!

Anyway I don't really care, they should get their contacts!
 I just find it amusing that you guys love to Quote the Rules but when it does not suit your opinion you shoot the messenger and if that does not work you just dismiss it and say oh yeah well that's been happening forever so it's fine?

« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 12:21:48 PM by KD8MJR »
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VE3VEE

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2023, 12:23:57 PM »


" It is never OK to remotely use a station outside of the 'home DXCC entity' to add to the home-entity DXCC totals -- just as it is never OK for you to ask someone else at another station in another place to make QSOs for you."


Yes, and what the above means is that if a remote station is located for example in Norway, an operator of that remote station can add to his Norway DXCC totals. (He would not be able to add to his for example USA DXCC totals because the remote station is located in Norway.

Marvin VE3VEE
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