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Author Topic: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal  (Read 2174 times)

K4HB

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2023, 08:57:22 PM »



I'm glad to see a team going there. Maybe they will cut into the profits of this one who lives there and wants $5 for a LoTW upload... https://www.qrz.com/db/VK9DX
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N1UR

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2023, 04:40:02 AM »

Do you know how much they are charging for a confirmation?

Ed  N1UR
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VK5SA

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2023, 04:44:25 PM »

Via M0OXO so will be reasonable.

Chris   VK5SA
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N0UN

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #63 on: March 12, 2023, 05:12:07 PM »

Do you know how much they are charging for a confirmation?

Ed  N1UR

https://www.m0oxo.com/3y0j-bouvet-2023/3y0j-bouvet-qsl-policy/

"OQRS Direct QSL+LoTW: via paypal $15

Mailed anywhere in the world unlimited number of QSOs, including LoTW.

OQRS Bureau QSL: via paypal $3

Mailed anywhere in the world unlimited number of QSOs. Do NOT request via the normal Bureau card services as these will NOT be answered. Only use the OQRS online service. Option for free bureau cards will be activated at the end when all other cards have been sent out."

NØUN
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K5GS

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #64 on: March 12, 2023, 06:21:32 PM »

Via M0OXO so will be reasonable.

Chris   VK5SA

The confirmation fees are generally established by the DXpedition leadership team, or the DX operator. 

The QSL manager follows the agreed upon fee structure.

Cheers,
GS K5GS
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K4HB

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2023, 08:26:29 AM »

Do you know how much they are charging for a confirmation?

No... I would rather pay a DXpedition 10 or 15 bucks than pay someone who is operating from their home 5 bucks for a LoTW upload. It's a matter of principle, and people doing that irk me. The one shown in my other post keeps coming up with every excuse under the sun to do what he's doing. And he's smiling all the way to the bank. There's a station in San Marino who also wants payment for a LoTW upload. I waited over a year before he finally uploaded my 6M QSO to LoTW. There's a PZ who station who does the same. I have him on several bands when it was all direct mail. Worked him on 60M, and he's listed as LoTW user. Checked his latest update, and he was current. Then read his QRZ page. He wants payment to help keep his station on the air. Perhaps I should charge for an upload for those needing GA on a certain band or my county. You know, to keep me on the air.

Some may say, "Cheap @$$ hams, they want everything for free." I say greedy hams who want to cash in. I've spent thousands on direct mail both ways, because I've always believed the one requesting the QSL should pay. But for a few mouse clicks to upload to LoTW? Give me a freaking break. And to make it clear, I'm talking only about those operating from home. DXpeditions who spend 10s of thousands, if not 100s of thousands to give me a QSO deserve a payment.
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K1VSK

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2023, 09:01:21 AM »

.

Some may say, "Cheap @$$ hams, they want everything for free." I say greedy hams who want to cash in. I've spent thousands on direct mail both ways, because I've always believed the one requesting the QSL should pay. But for a few mouse clicks to upload to LoTW? Give me a freaking break. And to make it clear, I'm talking only about those operating from home. DXpeditions who spend 10s of thousands, if not 100s of thousands to give me a QSO deserve a payment.

I would rephrase that as -
Dxpeditions deserve a voluntary donation.

Individuals  demanding payment for an LOTW button push are committing extortion.
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K4HB

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2023, 09:08:21 AM »

I would rephrase that as -
Dxpeditions deserve a voluntary donation.

Individuals  demanding payment for an LOTW button push are committing extortion.

OK, sounds good to me, just a different way of saying it and getting more testicle about it.
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W2IRT

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2023, 09:17:24 AM »

OK, sounds good to me, just a different way of saying it and getting more testicle about it.
That's a pretty ballsy statement ;D
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K1VSK

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2023, 09:48:14 AM »

I would rephrase that as -
Dxpeditions deserve a voluntary donation.

Individuals  demanding payment for an LOTW button push are committing extortion.

OK, sounds good to me, just a different way of saying it and getting more testicle about it.
Befitting the ‘crime’
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WO7R

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2023, 11:10:36 AM »

Oh, look, more self-interested hams pretending there is no marketplace for confirmations and that their motives are pure.

If you don't want to pay the fee, don't pay it.  But don't waste your time bitching about it here.

There's nothing that magic about a paper postcard in the end, either.  Producing a label for a card is also only a few mouse clicks these days.  Clublog will prepare labels for you that you can print straight off of standard Avery label forms if you can't be bothered to find logging software that does it.

The difference is not that great.  All this "but, but" on LOTW charges is just a presumption that a physical card (5 cents for UX5UO for a great one) is a big deal in all of this.  A lot of these LOTW guys are careful to price their LOTW so that it is still cheaper than getting a card.  For you and me.  For what we pay.

At this point, I'd rather have LOTW than another damn card.  It is real work for me to gather the damn things up for award applications.  As opposed to "a few mouse clicks" on my end.
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K1VSK

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2023, 11:49:11 AM »

Oh, look, more self-interested hams pretending there is no marketplace for confirmations and that their motives are pure.

If you don't want to pay the fee, don't pay it.  But don't waste your time bitching about it here.




In the future, I’ll remember to submit my comments to you for review and approval prior to posting.

Some people don’t understand - it’s got nothing to do with the cost. Rather, it’s a principle issue, a concept which shouldn’t be elusive but clearly, some are unfamiliar with.
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WO7R

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2023, 12:05:49 PM »

Quote
Rather, it’s a principle issue, a concept which shouldn’t be elusive but clearly, some are unfamiliar with.

What "principle" is this? That self-interested you thinks you should get confirmations for free?

I'm familiar with "principles".  What I am also familiar with is when the self-interested pretend to principles that are actually overwhelmingly self-interested.

Tell yourself whatever makes you sleep at night. You're self-interested as hell here.

The fact that people can and do pay these fees show that "principle" isn't at issue. 

If there was this grave principle at stake, we'd all refuse to pay and all QSLs would be via the buro. That's not been true any time this last 30 years.

There's a guy out there who wants 10 bucks for a confirmation.  Well, it's not worth 10 bucks to me.  But  I don't pretend there's any principle behind my refusal.  He just won't get my money and I will somehow manage without that confirmation.  I will pay 3 to 5 bucks, especially for multiple bands.  So do most of us.

The way to keep prices down is to simply refuse to pay.  It may take 11 years to work someone else more reasonable -- or we may have to give up on that band country altogether.  So, do it if it's over your pain threshold.

But stop pretending there's any virtue here.  Hobby or not, there's a marketplace for confirmations.  It is rough and ready like many markets. But it very obviously exists.  Each DX makes their own decision about whether and how much revenue they want to collect to offset their expenses, which are greater than yours.  Each of his "clients" makes their own call about whether it is worth the money by whatever they cherish.

There's no "principle" when it looks exactly like a thousand other transactions we do in the rest of our life.
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K1VSK

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2023, 05:07:51 PM »

Quote
Rather, it’s a principle issue, a concept which shouldn’t be elusive but clearly, some are unfamiliar with.

What "principle" is this? That self-interested you thinks you should get confirmations for free?

 

I really didn’t need you to reaffirm your unfamiliarity with the concept. But then you went ahead regardless. 

As I said, it has absolutely nothing to do with the cost but since you insist on conflating the issue, enlighten us with what you think a LOTW button push is worth. Please try to exclude totally irrelevant obfuscations.
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WO7R

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Re: 3Y0J - Perfectly Legal
« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2023, 05:37:26 PM »

Quote
enlighten us with what you think a LOTW button push is worth.

Whatever any individual is willing to pay.  Same as cards.  There's no difference.

There's plenty of data out there that shows that comparatively few of us care about cards as cards.  LOTW's success (despite the signup procedure) demonstrates that. 

Moreover, if cards "as such" are what one cares about, work JAs by the hour and wait for the "buro" to fill up your envelope with pretty cards.  JAs have a lot of very interesting cards and every single one will QSL you it seems.  Ditto DLs, UAs, etc.  There are a handful of people who really do like cards.  Good on them.  But that's not what this marketplace is really about because plenty of attractive cards can be obtained for pretty cheap. 

So, the value is in the confirmation, not the cardboard.  If one pays 3 green stamps and at least a dollar to mail it out, then paying 3.50 US for an LOTW instead is a win.
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