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Author Topic: Architecting a Brand New Setup  (Read 286 times)

KK7LIC

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Architecting a Brand New Setup
« on: March 15, 2023, 07:04:16 AM »

Hello, I was just assigned my new call sign a few hours ago and will begin a fairly big undertaking right out of the gate! I hope everyone is patient as this is a new venture for me! If no one responds to this, I will completely understand!!  HAHAHAHA   ;D

Background:
First, let me apologize for the lengthy “intro/background” to follow!

My name is Robert, and I am in my mid fifty’s. I am not a prepper, but I am someone who likes to have a back up plan should there be an issue due to a natural or man made disaster. This being said, I recently took and passed my Technical license exam about two days ago and (as I was typing this online) was issued my new call sign of KK7LIC. To be honest, the testing was the easy part. Now comes the hard part!

Information:
I live in 85374 (Surprise AZ), and I travel back and forth every few weeks to my other house in 92881 (Corona CA). One daughter lives in 92660 (Newport/Costa Mesa CA), the other in 92868 (Orange CA).

Goal:
To architect a way to communicate between the above four zip codes. 92881 and 85374 will be the base/portable location at any point in time. The daughters are studying for their license as time progresses, and I plan to try to use hand held radios for both if possible. But gain, not sure if this is feasible. The end item goal is to set up a portable base station for usage at either 92881 or 85374 to communicate as follows:

-Portable base at 92881 (Corona CA) – Communicating with 92660 (Newport/Costa Mesa CA) and/or 92868 (Orange CA)
OR
-Portable Base at 85374 (Surprise AZ) – Communicating with 92660 (Newport/Costa Mesa CA) and/or 92868 (Orange CA)

Budget:
Obviously, I would like to be as frugal as possible, but I am prepared to spend what is needed to achieve my goals. I may not be able to purchase everything all at once, but I want to make sure all of my portable base communications (feed line, antenna etc.) are of quality for upgrade purposes in the future. In other words, I want quality first where it is most important, and cost effectiveness where it is not important.

Appreciation:
I know it is a big ask just to read this, and even a bigger ask for actual input in putting this together. However, I am clear on where I am regarding my own experience, and choose to not be an idiot and do this alone! Any help, direction, or suggestion on my situation, no matter how brief, would be greatly appreciated!

Again...thank you in advance for your time and consideration!

Robert
KK7LIC
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K1VSK

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Re: Architecting a Brand New Setup
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2023, 07:39:16 AM »

Easy solution. Buy cell phones.
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G4AON

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Re: Architecting a Brand New Setup
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2023, 07:50:11 AM »

Wide area inter-linked repeaters? Digital repeaters can be accessed from anywhere you have internet and end users of similar systems can put them on the same talkgroup/reflector/room (virtual channel in reality).

For example, I can talk via my local Raspberry Pi hotspot and handheld to someone in a car who is accessing a repeater.

Whether you pick one digital system over another depends on what your repeaters are using.

73 Dave
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WB6BYU

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Re: Architecting a Brand New Setup
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2023, 07:52:38 AM »

The first question to ask is, how often do you
want to be able to communicate?

Once a week?  Once a day?  24/7/365?

How much infrastructure are you willing to
assume is still in place?

How private do you expect the communications
to be?

How much time and effort are you willing to
put into learning and practicing how to use
the system to achieve the desired communications?
That may be more significant than the monetary
cost.

How are the folks at the other end going to know
when you are trying to contact them, so they can
turn on their radios?

How much space do you have to install antennas
at each location?


When infrastructure is up, you may be able to
use one of the linked repeater systems and make
contact using HTs.  Or connect the HTs to your
computer and send emails to each other.

Without that infrastructure, your best approach
probably is HF, there NVIS propagation should
cover the path most of the time using 40, 60,
80, or 160m, depending on conditions at the
time.  With a tech license, you can use CW
on 40 and 80m, otherwise you would all need
to upgrade to General.  A common 100 watt
HF transceiver will do the job, along with
wire antennas, and each station could be
assembled for something like $1-2K,
depending on your choice of equipment.

But the antennas will take space, and certainly
aren’t hand-held.  A dipole for 40m is ~60’
long, and progressively longer for the lower
frequencies.  There are ways to shorten them
somewhat, but you still have potential issues
with operating from an apartment, or dealing
with an HOA that doesn’t permit them.


Don’t under-estimate the planning that goes
into making such a scenario work.  If you
make a schedule to talk at a certain time,
what do you do if the frequency is in use?
if the band isn’t open?  If you want to make
contact at some other time?  If one person
is away from home?  It isn’t always as simple
as picking up your phone...

W1VT

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Re: Architecting a Brand New Setup
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2023, 08:17:58 AM »

350 miles  is too far for practical VHF communications.

That distance could be spanned inexpensively with 5Watt 40M CW radios assuming their were expert CW operators on each end. 
The standard 100W radios would provide considerable link margin on what is a pretty easy path, assuming that full size half wave dipoles could be installed on each end.  Also assuming that the locations aren't unusually noisy.  Powerline noise, grow lights, or bad electronics could make it impossible.
2W CW works as well as 100W SSB voice.

https://www.hamfesters.org/main/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Stealth-Antenna-Guide.pdf
Really good presentation on what you need.
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KA4WJA

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Re: Architecting a Brand New Setup
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2023, 09:58:55 AM »

Robert,
You've already gotten some great input.
Especially look at what Dale, WB6BYU, wrote...it will tell you what data you need to plug into your "life equations" in order to determine the correct / best approach!
(what that means is....you need to answer a lot of questions, in order to get more definitive answers)


But, 'til then, let me add a few minor points that should help.
Oh, and we're assuming the communications requirement here is not for pleasure, enjoyment of radio, etc...but, primarily when needed due to other forms of communications are not operational.....so, this means planning on NOT having local infrastructure to rely on, yes?

a)  Your comms in/around the Los Angeles area (Newport/Costa Mesa, Orange, as well as probably Corona) is easily do-able with simple set-ups....(although the terrain out/over to Corona could require something bigger, such as HF radios either at home or in the cars....or, of course, use of local infrastructure such as repeaters, links, etc.)...but your comms out to the Surprise, AZ (Phoenix) area, which is 300 - 320 miles away, is NOT going to be covered by simple handheld radios (unless you're using satellite phones. LOL)

b)  Someone from So. Cal. who is better familiar with the specific terrain (and VHF simplex comms paths) between the Newport/Costa Mesa / Orange locations and out/over to Corona, would be best to evaluate whether a handheld VHF radio would be able to maintain good comms out/over to Corona, via simplex (not thru any repeaters, links, etc.)
My guess is that this path (out/over to Corona) will need HF radios at home / in the cars, in order to get a signal over those mountains!  (which means no simple handheld radios)

c)  The comms path, from the LA area, out to the Surprise, AZ (Phoenix) area, which is 300 - 320 miles away, is NOT going to be covered by simple handheld radios....and, is going to require HF radios at both ends, along with decent sized HORIZONTALLY polarized antennas for 80m, 60m and 40m bands, and trained operators at each location.  (although 60m isn't that well represented by most hams these days, due to its "shared"/secondary access, necessitating its weird channelization....it can be useful at times)
[at 33* to 34* Lat, especially in the coming 5 - 6 years, it's unlikely that the crit freq will dip below 80m...so, a good plan would be for a 80m/40m fan-dipole, or a 80m/60m/40m fan-dipole (even if loaded/shortened 80m legs), at each location....along with a simple/entry-level HF radio, power-supply, etc...AND sufficient battery-back-up power to power the radios....this would give you good, reliable comms amongst all of your locations...but, it's NOT handheld, and not very portable]

d)  Instead of permanent set-ups, with dipoles, etc. (as I described just above in "c"), you could equip each vehicle with same HF radios and decent (big) antennas, and use a wire extended off the top of these vehicle antennas to improve your comms range to better / more easily cover the ~ 300 range out to Arizona..
This approach is very do-able, but please understand that while comms of a 10 - 20 miles is easy-peasy (such as with simple handheld radios) and comms out 1000 - 2000 miles is also fairly easy from mobile / vehicle set-ups, it is ironically the "regional" coverage of 100 - 400 miles that is difficult from vehicles (hence why my initial recommend was for home stations and dipoles).


Robert, I won't ramble on anymore now....as we all kinda' need to know the answers to all of Dale's questions before we could get anymore specific.  :)
But...

But, one last comment here...
I'm a BIG proponent of ham radio....and, I've used it on-shore and at-sea, in calm/benign conditions and in middle of hurricanes, etc....so, I love that you're looking at ham radio!   BUT...
But, a rather simple solution to your comms dilemma is Iridium!
A few handheld Iridium sat phones, and/or an Iridium base/mobile phone in each vehicle, and you're all set!
Just saying....many folks start a process into ham radio thinking it's a solution to their comms issues, without actually understanding what ham radio is and what is required.  :(


I hope this helps?

73,
John,  KA4WJA


P.S.  In case you didn't cover this in your prep for your ham test....please read this here....this is FCC Part 97.1  Which is the very first part of our rules and regs (which are not only US federal law, but also codified by most other countries in the world)...just so you know what you and your daughters are joining is much more than just a "hobby":
 
Quote
97.1   Basis and purpose.

The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
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