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Author Topic: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing  (Read 1371 times)

KD9WOM

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Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« on: March 15, 2023, 06:26:37 PM »

I have posted about an antenna and that sort of was a bust on trying to make my own, but my question is, that all I have is a Baofeng and the QRZ Explorer 1. relatively small wattage and I live almost 20-30 miles from a repeater, what should I do to actually be able to receive and send communication? I can kind of pick up and hear a little with the rubber ducky but from my metal mobile home area, sending is NOT going to happen. There might be one repeater closer maybe two but I can't call up either with the ducky..HELP! I am getting frustrated as a newer ham! thanks in advance.

I do have an antenna and I did make it myself, but it seems to do worse than the rubber duck ....any antenna advice or whatever would be greatly appreciated.
 and since I don't have anything fancy I am just trying to hit repeaters that are kind of near me, while at home, uhf vhf ...my radios can't do more than that ....will need to upgrade for more...
« Last Edit: March 15, 2023, 06:45:15 PM by KD9WOM »
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K6SDW

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2023, 06:48:19 PM »

I assume 2meters...outside antenna, preferably a directional antenna like a small Yagi pointed in the direction of the repeater. And very important, the shortest coax run you can make using at least RG213, but I would use LMR400.  More RF power wouldn't hurt either, such as a 25watt mobile rig - you'll need a 12vdc supply for that one.

They sell after market "gain" antennas that will screw into your Baofeng HT and I have found they will be much better than the stock antenna that came with the radio.

I'd pick up a  copy of the ARRL antenna handbook, you'll find excellent information on what you're facing, specially the loss of signal when using coax at VHF/UHF frequencies.

GL/73
« Last Edit: March 15, 2023, 06:51:04 PM by K6SDW »
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N8RKD

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2023, 06:56:34 PM »

K6SDW raises some valid questions.  We have no idea what you built, the quality or type of coax you're using, etc.  Is the antenna itself resonant in the 2 meter band?  What dimensions did you use?

Can you more clearly describe your antenna?  Was it something like this? https://www.kb6nu.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/2m-gnd-plane-antenna.png

A directional yagi made from a discarded steel tape measure isn't much more difficult to construct.
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WA2EIO

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2023, 07:04:07 PM »

You mention a "....metal mobile home area."   If you are trying to hear a repeater 20 or more miles away with your HT from inside the metal home, then the rubber ducky will not be very helpful.   As others have said, you need to use an outdoor antenna, and if you can position a vertical antenna on (or a few feet above) your metal roof that would probably be very helpful, even if it is just a simple ground plane antenna like N8RKD linked to.  Of course something longer would be preferable, and there are a number of dual band verticals to choose from.  A directional yagi, such as K6SDW mentions would be even better if you can point it at the repeater you are most interested in.  Either way, you will probably also be more successful on 2 Meters than on UHF, but an outside antenna with a short coax feed line will be most helpful.
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AC9O

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2023, 07:32:27 PM »

You have to the something outside. Even something simple should work many times better than the duckie. Here's a simple j-pole that is inexpensive and you can hang away from metal and should get decent performance.

https://n9taxlabs.com/shop/ols/products/dual-band-slim-jim-antenna-with-10-or-16-foot-cable
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WB6BYU

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2023, 09:32:01 PM »

The two things that will improve your signal the most are:
1) getting the antenna out of the metal trailer, and
2) height above ground

Antenna gain by itself comes a distant third, once you get
past a rubber duck to a full-sized antenna like a J-pole,
ground plane or 1/2 wave dipole (basically all the same thing).

Can you hit a repeater 20 miles away at 5 watts?  Depends
on the terrain between you.  I've covered 100 miles with a 2m
HT on a couple occasions, but usually that requires one or
both stations to have some height above the ground in the
middle.  If you have a hill between you and the repeater it
will be more difficult.

Raising your antenna from 5' to 20' is like increasing your
power 10 times (on 2m over flat terrain to a station 10 miles
away).  That's without consider the improvement from
switching the rubber duck to a full-sized antenna.  Antennas
like a ground plane are not difficult to build, and have enough
bandwidth that a minor error in construction probably won't
make the antenna unusable.

And often you really won't know how much power and/or
antenna you need to hit a repeater reliably until you actually
try it, especially when there are some obstructions.   That's
another advantage of building simple, cheap antennas:  you
can keep trying different versions until you find one that
works, then build a more permanent version, rather than
spending a lot of money on each antenna that doesn't work.


Oh, and do check that you have the repeater offset and tone
properly programmed - that certainly can prevent you from
hitting a repeater regardless of how close it is to you.  When
in doubt, drive close to the repeater and make sure you can
hit it there.

K6UJ

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2023, 09:58:20 PM »

Some good ideas presented, I like the J-pole antenna for a simple easy antenna with gain over
a 1/4 wave vertical like AC90 suggested.  What ever antenna you decide upon get it outside and up above the metal trailer.  Let us know your progress, we will assist more.  We've all been there.

Bob
K6UJ
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G4AON

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2023, 01:11:59 AM »

Sadly, like many new to the hobby, you have chosen a hand held in the mistaken belief that it will somehow allow you to communicate from home to a distant repeater. It is not a good start...

A mobile radio, as you would use in a car, together with an outdoor antenna, either an omni directional "white stick" fibreglass dual band one, or a single band yagi, rear mounted and vertically polarised, pointed at a distant repeater, is a much more likely to work solution.

The big problem with any hand held, is that running 5 Watts is (a) going to run the battery down quickly, (b) result in the radio getting very hot if you transmit for any length of time and (c) you are going to need an outside antenna feeder connected to the hand held, not how they are intended to be used and in practice quite awkard to use too.

Sorry to be blunt, but you have the wrong tool for the job.

73 Dave
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W6SWO

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2023, 05:09:02 AM »

When I first got started, all I had was a Radio Shack HTX-202 2m HT.  I struggled to hit repeaters too.  A friend loaned me his homebrew J-Pole made out of 1/2” copper pipe, and I hit the repeaters around 20 miles away just holding it in my hand while sitting in my driveway.
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K5LXP

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2023, 05:10:51 AM »

Per Repeaterbook there's a number of repeaters closer than 20 miles to your QRZ address.  Might not be the ones you're ultimately interested in working but see which ones you can access to get an idea how much impact your antenna and location has to accessibility.

Another way to test relative performance of different antennas and locations is to pick up one of the NOAA weather stations.  Finding one that's weak to mid strength can be a good reference when doing A/B comparisons.  These stations are on 24/7 so don't require someone monitoring or responding to your call for signal reports.

Any antenna outside is going to be better than any antenna inside.  I've talked almost 100 miles with a rubber duck on an HT - from the top of Pike's Peak.  That same antenna and HT inside a car would be lucky go a few miles.  So don't worry too much about what kind of antenna you put up outside, or even the grade of coax.  If it's outside and in the clear, it will work pretty well.  Antenna gain and good coax improve performance (signal strength) but they can't create line of sight.  Only height can do that.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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K1KIM

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2023, 07:08:44 AM »

All good advice.

As stated above, height is king with VHF communications. It is line of sight propagation.

There is a web site www.https://www.scadacore.com/tools/rf-path/rf-line-of-sight/
that can tell you how high you "should" be to accomplish what you desire.

Power is another helper. I have an HT that I drive a 2M 80W linear with 1.5 watts in the farm vehicle when desired.

On my office desk I have a Baofeng with a 19" whip and a 19" counterpoise wire that hits the local repeater 12 miles away with full quieting at under 2 watts output. It does just as good as my expensive HT's in that regard.

An outside antenna (3-4 element Yagi if you want to hit only one direction with no rotator) or a J-Pole, Ed Fong vertical dipole, home made ground plane from coat hangers and an S)-239 will all serve your purpose. Just get them outside and up as high as feasible.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 07:12:34 AM by K1KIM »
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AC7CW

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2023, 08:22:00 AM »

Your handheld should be fine. With a yagi a few feet off the house roof and a handheld running one tenth of a watt I opened a repeater 45 miles away once
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N0GV

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2023, 11:22:33 AM »

Metal Mobile Home? If it is steel a simple magnetic mount mobile antenna stuck to the roof with the co-ax run thru a window with an sma end will work just fine on a 20 mile distant repeater. Yagi and j-pole antennas are all fine but a cheap mag mount (Vfan brand, $20 on Amazon) will work just fine for a 20 mile haul IF the repeater is line of sight. Check that first.
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KD9WOM

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2023, 04:39:53 AM »

K6SDW raises some valid questions.  We have no idea what you built, the quality or type of coax you're using, etc.  Is the antenna itself resonant in the 2 meter band?  What dimensions did you use?

Can you more clearly describe your antenna?  Was it something like this? https://www.kb6nu.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/2m-gnd-plane-antenna.png

A directional yagi made from a discarded steel tape measure isn't much more difficult to construct.
it is a quarter wave ground plane I thought, maybe I got the lengths of the radials wrong? or not at the right angles? its copper radials and in a pvc pipe connected to and at least a couple feet above my trailer. with a coax that I know will give me a little loss in the swr...but should still be better than my rubber duck.
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KD9WOM

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Re: Apparently I have no Idea what I am doing
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2023, 04:44:46 AM »

Some good ideas presented, I like the J-pole antenna for a simple easy antenna with gain over
a 1/4 wave vertical like AC90 suggested.  What ever antenna you decide upon get it outside and up above the metal trailer.  Let us know your progress, we will assist more.  We've all been there.

Bob
K6UJ
it is outside and above my trailer , the PVC pipe i am running it through is installed on the side of my trailer but its above ...it by a couple feet....i am fairly sure I got it connected correctly, but maybe its too close to the metal? I do not know, still learning, just wanting to be able to get on air, while at home.
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