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Author Topic: FT4 activity seems to be picking up  (Read 422 times)

WO7R

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FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« on: March 16, 2023, 12:43:19 PM »

I don't have definitive numbers (will soon be available from the Clublog daily mode data site), but it appears to me, informally, that FT4 activity is increasing with the sunspots.  This is particularly true on the bands above 20 meters, which I had seen little of in the past.

I'm not yet seeing a lot of really rare DX there, so it's a bit of a free for all where everyone works everyone in what is nearly a feeding frenzy of rapid fire activity.

There are still repeats, but far less than there used to be.

It will be interesting to see where this might go.  Those that don't hate these things might try some experiments.  I wondered if FT4 would pick up as the sunspots rose.  Maybe it is.

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AC9O

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2023, 01:06:14 PM »

I have noticed that too, especially on 12m. Part of the reason may be the standard FT8 frequencies are getting more and more crowded. Hard to find an open spot.
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KF6QEX

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2023, 01:16:05 PM »

I have noticed that too, especially on 12m. Part of the reason may be the standard FT8 frequencies are getting more and more crowded. Hard to find an open spot.
There is "always" an open spot from 2400 to 3600..the problem is, what looks like an open spot to you might not be an open spot for the DX. With a bit of a delay looking at pskreporter.info you can tell if you are getting out and what your reach is.
 
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sdrawkcab daer tseb si txet sihT

N4UFO

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2023, 01:21:44 PM »

I am on 6m calling a station in Chile right now on FT4. Why? If the conditions are good enough, it takes better advantage of the window of opportunity to work more stations. Pretty simple...  :)

And another one in the books... just copied an RR73.   8)
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K6SDW

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2023, 01:45:12 PM »

YES!! FT8 has gotten soooo busy my puny station has trouble competing with the Big Guns and crowds...yes, I can tell some stations are running lotsa power and of course better antennas which is FB.

I do wonder why FT4, given its a lot quicker in turn around time, hasn't exploded yet? I guess I should be careful what I wish for, as FT4 catches on then I'll be competing with those Big Guns which is ok - if ya got it, flaunt it....HI I

GL/73
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 01:48:21 PM by K6SDW »
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W5HVV

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2023, 01:58:55 PM »

On a related note, XU7GNY attempted multi-stream FT4 one morning on 17m. First time I'd seen that done. I don't think it was any faster than FT8 would have been (and may have actually been slower) due to the number of repeats required to complete each QSO, but it was an interesting attempt nonetheless.
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WO7R

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2023, 02:10:40 PM »

Quote
I do wonder why FT4, given its a lot quicker in turn around time, hasn't exploded yet?

Because, up to now, the downside of FT4 is that it has required a lot of repeats.  You need a little better conditions and better sustained conditions to make the connection work.

So, you can always run FT4, but despite the quick turn around progress through the QSO on FT8 has usually been much faster in terms of actually finishing.

If the higher sunspots is turning that around, then the explosion you wondered about may be here finally, at least for the peak sunspot years.
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AF5CC

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2023, 04:22:29 PM »

I have noticed the increase in activity on FT4 as well, especially amongst EU stations.  I assume many just discovered FT8 and stayed with it because it was doing what they needed.  Habits die hard for some of us.  I have worked a few semi-rare countries on FT4.

Wonder how fast FT2 will be!

73 John AF5CC
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W2IRT

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2023, 05:24:00 PM »

I have noticed the increase in activity on FT4 as well, especially amongst EU stations.  I assume many just discovered FT8 and stayed with it because it was doing what they needed.  Habits die hard for some of us.  I have worked a few semi-rare countries on FT4.
With higher solar numbers meaning better signals it makes sense. I have to wonder if there are plans to enable MSHV in FT4. Only downside is the much higher bandwidth and that could be a real problem. Since I'm really bad at math I haven't calculated what the Q/hr rate would be with 2 streams of FT4 vs 4 streams of FT8.
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KM4SII

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2023, 06:00:09 PM »

With higher solar numbers meaning better signals it makes sense. I have to wonder if there are plans to enable MSHV in FT4. Only downside is the much higher bandwidth and that could be a real problem. Since I'm really bad at math I haven't calculated what the Q/hr rate would be with 2 streams of FT4 vs 4 streams of FT8.

I have noted a number of DX stations running multiple streams of FT4. If signals are strong, it can be very efficient and lead to high rates. However, if signals aren't so good it can slow things down since FT4 already requires stronger signals than FT8 to decode. As others have mentioned, less reliable decoding leads to many repeats. At a certain point I would imagine the speed of FT4 is canceled out by the increased number of repeats, in which case switching to FT8 would likely be beneficial. If the bands are hot though, FT4 can be a great choice!

And as to WO7R's initial observations, I would have to agree as well. At the solar minimum, often the only band on which you would find FT4 activity was 20m. Sometimes a few stations would show up on 40 or 15m, but rarely anywhere else. However, now even 10m is often full of FT4 activity. I would also agree that at times I have better luck working DX on FT4 than on FT8 just because of how busy the FT8 watering hole is. Often, needed DX is buried under other stronger stations, or the opposite occurs -- I might be getting stomped on by someone I cannot hear. It is especially a problem on bands such as 10m when I am only hearing a fraction of all of the stations currently QRV due to the good 'ol skip zone.

73
Mason - KM4SII
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KB2FCV

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2023, 07:01:55 PM »

I have definitely seen an increase in ft4, especially on 10/12m in the past year or so. As others have observed - it does seem to take a little longer to complete a qso as I get many missed decodes requiring more repeats.
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W2IRT

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2023, 08:29:51 PM »

What I'm going to be very interested to see is if FT4 ever takes off on 6m, especially when the band is really long. I've made a couple hundred 6m FT4 Qs but it's still pretty much a novelty on that band.
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Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

KK2DOG

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2023, 10:05:52 PM »

FT4 is terrible...please stay away!  ;)
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ON6AB

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2023, 04:40:54 AM »

Quote
I do wonder why FT4, given its a lot quicker in turn around time, hasn't exploded yet?

Because, up to now, the downside of FT4 is that it has required a lot of repeats.  You need a little better conditions and better sustained conditions to make the connection work.

So, you can always run FT4, but despite the quick turn around progress through the QSO on FT8 has usually been much faster in terms of actually finishing.

If the higher sunspots is turning that around, then the explosion you wondered about may be here finally, at least for the peak sunspot years.

This misconception is part of the success of FT4.
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VE3VEE

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Re: FT4 activity seems to be picking up
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2023, 03:17:26 AM »

The FT8 watering holes are too crowded for weaker stations to be heard. I wish people would use the dial on their radios to move to other frequencies. There is plenty of space on the bands, no need for us to limit ourselves to a narrow 3kHz segment.

I think the main advantage of FT4 over FT8 is that the FT4 watering wholes are not as crowded as the FT8 ones, but I think if we, the FT8 users spread out to a wider frequency range, we will have much better luck DXing again.

Marvin VE3VEE
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