Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now  (Read 891 times)

WO7R

  • Member
  • Posts: 6042
Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« on: March 18, 2023, 11:23:08 PM »

Was just poking around my LOTW account and discovered that I have 195 out of 200 5BWAZ zones confirmed.

I did not expect to see that.

It gets better.  There may be some sort of bug (relating, primarily, to my old WO0Z QSOs).  I looked up the missing five and they are LOTW credited.  Why they do not show up in my 5BWAZ list is the mystery.  (N. B. I have the actual 200 zones credited long since -- this is just noticing about LOTW confirmations).

But even if it was merely 195, that's still way more than I expected.  Some of those zones are hard to get from the US and they come from places in the world where LOTW is less successful in getting DX to sign up.

All 200, if I could get the system to recognize it, is even more amazing to me.  Note that I am not claiming any special virtue here, other than doggedly pursuing the award originally and informally doing a not-to-be-credited-officially "second time" chase here in Arizona.  In short, the only virtue I can claim here is hitting zones hard and paying attention.

This is all about LOTW penetration.

Similarly, my WPX totals are really whacko large and well above the minimums required for just about any WPX award there ever was.  That doesn't require anything like the 97.5 to 100 per cent confirmation level of 5BWAZ as recited above, but it still represents a whole incredible boatload of LOTW confirmations.  Whether I am interested or not, it is still a pretty high level of achievement thanks to LOTW.  I don't know why they set their various minimums where they did in that program, but they look anachronistically low to me today.

WPX gets pricey in LOTW, even at 12 cents per credit, but if you sign up for eQSL at even Bronze, you can always get those credited first and then, the awards manager will ensure that you only have to apply for the residual (that is, if the same QSO is credited in eQSL also, about half the time true, you don't have to pay LOTW fees to get credit.  So, you can estimate your probable WPX cost at about half of what your LOTW award sheet shows).  About six cents a card is hard to beat.

Setting aside cost, it is really making me wonder about cards and how many one might need.

My raw LOTW confirmation rate in 2022 and 2023 so far, is 80 per cent.  Never thought it would get that high.  If your math goes back to the start of your participation, it will always look lower than it now is.

LOTW remains a slow motion revolution in confirmations.

If one is going for DXCC Challene 2000, one might have to work as many as 2500 counters to avoid cards, but actually, much better.  It is probably more like 2200 counters or less to dispense with cards.  Two QSOs for the same band slot should get you one of them credited 96 per cent of the time now (says theory and practice).

None of this is meant to disparage anyone who loves cards and collects them, especially for rare places. 

I'm simply suggesting that we can at least dispense with the physical cards in the vast majority of cases.  More than one might expect.

I've just gotten done applying using paper and applying using LOTW.  I turned in something like 65 counters in seconds with LOTW.  My fee approximately doubled, but it wasn't all that much to start with.  The paper version has 17 entries and, not counting the car ride to and from the checker, consumed at least two, three, maybe four times as much time.


All of this means you can probably expect to only apply for between four and ten per cent of your "slots" using cards.

For anything.
Logged

VE3VEE

  • Member
  • Posts: 3030
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2023, 12:53:10 AM »

Out of the 225 DXCC entities I have worked since January 1 of this year, 194 have been already confirmed via LoTW. Long live LoTW! Consider saving the trees before sending paper QSL cards.  ;D ;D ;D

Marvin VE3VEE
Logged

G4AON

  • Member
  • Posts: 2178
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2023, 06:43:19 AM »

The cost of a paper DXCC certificate from LOTW is crazy. I have over 200 countries confirmed and a piece of paper to frame and hang on the wall would cost me around $70. I don’t think there is a discount for being an ordinary ARRL member either.

Compare that with a contest result certificate from our RSGB in the form of a color PDF, to print myself for zero cost.

ARRL members should be able to download a certificate for free, or have one posted for a nominal charge…

73 Dave (ARRL member)
Logged

K5MO

  • Posts: 65
    • HomeURL
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2023, 07:04:42 AM »

I have 295 countries confirmed all on LOTW.  :-)

Anyone on honor roll/LOTW?

John K5MO
Logged

N2SR

  • Member
  • Posts: 1794
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2023, 08:25:47 AM »

I have 295 countries confirmed all on LOTW.  :-)

Anyone on honor roll/LOTW?

John K5MO

One away.  I have 330 mixed/LOTW.
Logged
Elect a clown.  Expect a circus.

W1VT

  • Member
  • Posts: 6071
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2023, 08:43:42 AM »


Compare that with a contest result certificate from our RSGB in the form of a color PDF, to print myself for zero cost.

ARRL members should be able to download a certificate for free, or have one posted for a nominal charge…


ARRL Contest certificates can be downloaded for free.

LoTW is an expensive program to run.  A lot of programming is done by hired staff. 
It has been decided to offset those costs by charging for QSLs when they used for claiming awards.

I was at an American Rose Society convention and learned that a big chunk of revenue for running the ARS came from events held at the rose garden.  I assume weddings are held there.

They are now getting state money to promote the garden as a recreational destination.  They got a lot of money for a Christmas tree light display!  The money has to come from somewhere.

Back to WAZ  195 worked, 194 confirmed via LoTW
5-Band   194   0   0   194
Mixed   40   0   0   40
CW   40   0   0   40
SSB   39   0   0   39  Missing Z19
RTTY   38   0   0   38
Digital   40   0   0   40
« Last Edit: March 19, 2023, 09:01:45 AM by W1VT »
Logged

W7CXC

  • Member
  • Posts: 336
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2023, 08:58:48 AM »

Ah.....but there is something nice about receiving a nice QSL card in the mail. Perhaps it is a dinosaur thing :)
Logged

K0RS

  • Member
  • Posts: 1501
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2023, 09:24:30 AM »

I have 295 countries confirmed all on LOTW.  :-)

Anyone on honor roll/LOTW?

John K5MO

Yes, mixed and CW.

Like Larry, I noticed that my 5BWAZ QSOs from my previous call don't show up on LoTW for 5BWAZ.  I've reworked most of those with my current callsign.  I've got 198 worked and confirmed, but only 196 on LoTW.  Among those missing, I have 5A1A (Zone 34 on 10m) and UA0ANW (Zone 18 on 80m) on paper.  I was hoping rework Zone 18 on 80m this winter, but it looks like it's too late now.  Still missing Zones 22 and 23 on 80.  Would like to make a 5BWAZ submission all electronically so I didn't have to submit cards.  No WAZ cards checkers around here.  Still hanging in at 34 zones confirmed on 160m on LoTW.  Wish I could get JT5DX on confirm Zone 23 on 160m for #35, but so far no luck.
Logged
"90% of the people in a pile-up have no idea what's going on.  It's up to you to be in the remaining 10%."  *W9KNI*

K0UA

  • Member
  • Posts: 9589
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2023, 09:49:24 AM »

The biggest Pain of the cards is not only the cost of sending them or you paying to have them sent, but the cost of card checking.  The nearest card checker here is 150 miles away. Card checkers used to go to hamfests, but that is not assured now.
Logged
73  James K0UA

KG4RUL

  • Posts: 3781
    • HomeURL
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2023, 10:22:11 AM »

I don't compete for awards so, having an actual card, in hand, is more significant for me.
Logged

KD8MJR

  • Member
  • Posts: 6017
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2023, 10:29:03 AM »

Lotw is great but if the ARRL should ever go under you have nothing unless you have the physical cards.  I make sure that when possible I get at least one card for any Entity that I work.
Logged
“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)

WO7R

  • Member
  • Posts: 6042
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2023, 11:25:51 AM »

Quote
Lotw is great but if the ARRL should ever go under you have nothing unless you have the physical cards.  I make sure that when possible I get at least one card for any Entity that I work

Even in this dire scenario, DXCC would survive the death of ARRL.  The DXAC, or someone, would just take it over.  It would be spun off.

LOTW itself probably doesn't continue as from what I can glean, it is simply not competitive in costs with either eQSL or, the most likely "winner", Clublog.

Yes, Clublog has no apparent security, certainly less than LOTW, but it also has way less in the way of infrastructure costs, being run by a handful of volunteers.  eQSL seems to be run by "one guy" as far as I could ever make out.  We may enjoy LOTW and its trade-offs today, but these things are just not required in the end.

Compared to "nothing", both would be very viable replacements in the unlikely and (to me) undesired event of the league's demise.  We would be horrified today at such a prospect, and raise many objections, but in the actual event, we'd discover that we would take what we could get and life would go on.

Cards, for awards purposes, are not making a comeback no matter what.  There's a whole generation raised on LOTW now and there should be plenty and enough demand to fund a replacement, albeit a less extensive one.

Collect cards if you enjoy them, but don't pretend they are going to be this big deal in awards.  Nobody wants that.

A lot of DX stations have opted out of the "buro" system.  They aren't going back.  LOTW, or its successor, is the replacement for all of that.
Logged

W3WN

  • Member
  • Posts: 1127
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2023, 12:30:09 PM »

The cost of a paper DXCC certificate from LOTW is crazy. I have over 200 countries confirmed and a piece of paper to frame and hang on the wall would cost me around $70. I don’t think there is a discount for being an ordinary ARRL member either.

Compare that with a contest result certificate from our RSGB in the form of a color PDF, to print myself for zero cost.

ARRL members should be able to download a certificate for free, or have one posted for a nominal charge…

73 Dave (ARRL member)

And how much would it cost you to individually confirm each one of those contacts?

I don’t care for the cost of awards either, but when comparing it to the costs involved in doing it the old fashioned way, it is a bargain.
Logged
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati.
Ban The DH!
זאל ס גיין באַקס!

NU1O

  • Member
  • Posts: 5115
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2023, 12:32:16 PM »

Lotw is great but if the ARRL should ever go under you have nothing unless you have the physical cards.  I make sure that when possible I get at least one card for any Entity that I work.

I don't think one need worry about the ARRL going under.
Logged

VA3VF

  • Member
  • Posts: 4509
Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2023, 12:37:32 PM »

Quote
The biggest Pain of the cards is not only the cost of sending them or you paying to have them sent, but the cost of card checking.

Not even close. A bigger pain is to lose your cards in the mail. The biggest pain is to lose your cards on the way to the ARRL, before credit.

Never happened to me, I waited for something like LoTW to appear before "formally" applying for a certificate. But I knew people that lost "precious" cards in the mail. I don't remember in which direction though.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up