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Author Topic: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now  (Read 891 times)

VA3VF

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2023, 12:45:55 PM »

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Lotw is great but if the ARRL should ever go under you have nothing unless you have the physical cards.  I make sure that when possible I get at least one card for any Entity that I work.

I try to do the same, but I'm not hardcore. If I miss a few, so be it.

As for LoTW being dropped, rather than the ARRL going under, I think it's a possibility. Every time there is a glitch in the system I wonder if I should apply for the certificates I already qualify but have not yet applied.

As for a program of any sort after an eventual DXCC demise, there is no doubt in my mind ClubLog would take over. For those already keeping their records on ClubLog the transition would be transparent and "painless".
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VA3VF

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2023, 01:05:58 PM »

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This is all about LOTW penetration.

The adoption, rather than penetration, is evident. ;D ;D ;D

I'm sure there are other ways to check how many users of LoTW there are, but I never looked into it specifically.

I have been test-driving another logging program for a couple of months now. It can download the latest LoTW user database on demand and show the total count. There has been an increase of around 4k users just during this time.
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KD8MJR

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2023, 01:32:54 PM »

As for a program of any sort after an eventual DXCC demise, there is no doubt in my mind ClubLog would take over. For those already keeping their records on ClubLog the transition would be transparent and "painless".

I have not used Clublog for log keeping or rewards due to the initial lack of security.  Have they upgraded Clublog to the levels of Lotw in terms of operator verification and Dxpedition validity?
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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)

KG4RUL

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2023, 01:41:08 PM »

As for a program of any sort after an eventual DXCC demise, there is no doubt in my mind ClubLog would take over. For those already keeping their records on ClubLog the transition would be transparent and "painless".

I have not used Clublog for log keeping or rewards due to the initial lack of security.  Have they upgraded Clublog to the levels of Lotw in terms of operator verification and Dxpedition validity?

Repeat this until it SINKS IN!

They are not nuclear secrets!  This is a fun hobby!  The fate of the world does not rest on it!
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VA3VF

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2023, 01:47:16 PM »

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Quote
As for a program of any sort after an eventual DXCC demise, there is no doubt in my mind ClubLog would take over. For those already keeping their records on ClubLog the transition would be transparent and "painless".

I have not used Clublog for log keeping or rewards due to the initial lack of security.  Have they upgraded Clublog to the levels of Lotw in terms of operator verification and Dxpedition validity?

I won't get into the security and verification debate this time around. As it stands right now, ClubLog can download one's confirmations from LoTW. As I said, the *transition* would be transparent and "painless", not necessarily the ongoing operation.

If and when ClubLog becomes the new DXCC, my guess is that any real or perceived shortcoming will be addressed then.

If worst comes to worst, I'll go back to keeping my own records. After all, I know what I worked.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
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KD8MJR

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2023, 01:53:42 PM »

Repeat this until it SINKS IN!

They are not nuclear secrets!  This is a fun hobby!  The fate of the world does not rest on it!

I don't need the two year old baby old lecture!
There are some valid concerns with having the operators and Dxpeditions validated.   I have had several rare contacts that I worked and then found out through Lotw that these stations where not valid.  In some cases the operator was not even in the entity.  If you go around thinking you got bands and modes covered when in fact they are not covered you will probably not bother to work that band or mode again when a real opportunity comes up.

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“A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.”  (Mark Twain)

WO7R

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2023, 02:14:50 PM »

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But I knew people that lost "precious" cards in the mail. I don't remember in which direction though.

If you are into multiple awards (e.g. 5BWAZ and DXCC) it doesn't matter.

That is why I have never mailed in a card for award credit.  I have always found another way, no matter how far the drive.

If the ARRL finally decides to audit my most recent card submission, I suppose I would have to mail that set to Newington.  If I did, I probably would send them via UPS, FedEx, or even USPS Express Mail.  They could still get lost, but the odds go way, way up done that way.  They scan the package not just once, but all along the way.

Regular mail is better than we think, but not foolproof.  Your card checker mails in your submission, of course.  Mine takes extra steps.  He told me he takes all submissions to the main post office, which eliminates some of the handling, at least on "our" end of it.  Smart man.
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W2IRT

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2023, 02:16:30 PM »

The biggest Pain of the cards is not only the cost of sending them or you paying to have them sent, but the cost of card checking.  The nearest card checker here is 150 miles away. Card checkers used to go to hamfests, but that is not assured now.
Sorry to hear it's that way where you are. I check at 4 or 5 hamfests a year typically (and I can do CQ-WAZ cards as well). I will be checking at Xenia this year too (Friday, mid-day). I have several applicants who mail me their cards and never a problem yet, provided they send the cards either Priority or Priority Express—or Registered if they're super-paranoid. But in over a dozen years of card checking never once was a mailpiece lost or significantly delayed. I find the best packaging is the Priority Mail padded flat rate envelope, incidentally.[size=78%]
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And to VA3VF, if you ever happen to need a card check in the GTA around late November let me know. I visit a friend in Etobicoke over the U.S. Thanksgiving weekend every year and I'd be glad to check cards in person then.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

VA3VF

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2023, 02:29:43 PM »

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...if you ever happen to need a card check in the GTA around late November let me know. I visit a friend in Etobicoke over the U.S. Thanksgiving weekend every year and I'd be glad to check cards in person then.

Thank you for the offer. That would still be a 450km drive each way. ;)

I never looked for a card checker around here, there must be one close by. Still, I'm the "instant gratification" type, online is my "thing", before that I kept my own records. :)
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VA3VF

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2023, 02:40:10 PM »

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...I suppose I would have to mail that set to Newington.

Just for clarity, the lost mail situation I referred to was from outside of the US. I remember one guy saying that he would rather travel all the way to Newington rather than mail his cards. Back then, and from that originating location, the only "sure" thing about registered mail was that it would take a lot longer to arrive, when it arrived...and cost a lot more as well.

We have it easy nowadays...too easy for some. ;)
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KC0W

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2023, 03:07:05 PM »


Not even close. A bigger pain is to lose your cards in the mail. The biggest pain is to lose your cards on the way to the ARRL, before credit.

Never happened to me, I waited for something like LoTW to appear before "formally" applying for a certificate. But I knew people that lost "precious" cards in the mail. I don't remember in which direction though.

 As proudly (egotistically?) mentioned on my QRZ page I have 11 Band CW WAS (6 - 160 meters + Satellite) all confirmed with paper QSL cards. These cards along with radio gear were all left with a non-ham friend on the mainland for safekeeping. A few months ago I get a phone call saying ALL cards were accidentally thrown out during "fall cleaning" by their weekly house cleaning person.

 Hundreds & hundreds & hundreds of hours down the drain.


                                                                           Tom KH0/KC0W     
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VA3VF

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2023, 03:17:25 PM »

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A few months ago I get a phone call saying ALL cards were accidentally thrown out during "fall cleaning" by their weekly house cleaning person.

Hundreds & hundreds & hundreds of hours down the drain.   

Now I understand why you are so "philosophical" at times. :o

Jokes aside, that hurts big time. Some/most people will say life goes on, sure, but still...
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W2IRT

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2023, 04:10:33 PM »

Thank you for the offer. That would still be a 450km drive each way. ;)

I never looked for a card checker around here, there must be one close by. Still, I'm the "instant gratification" type, online is my "thing", before that I kept my own records. :)
Not sure where you are (your QRZ info is incomplete), but there's one in Listowell, ON, one in Toronto, and one just outside of Montreal in Ile Bizard, QC. If none of them are near you I'd definitely recommend either bringing them to a major US hamfest where a checker will be in attendance (Visalia, Xenia, etc) or send via registered mail to either a US checker or direct to Newington. I'd be glad to help anybody here if they need a checker or a CQ-WAZ Checkpoint.
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Night gathers and now my watch begins. It shall not end until I reach Top of the Honor Roll

Great times are at hand, and soon there will be DX for all—although more for some than for others.

KF4HR

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2023, 04:49:57 PM »

Yep, everything is getting easier and easier.  It's great!  Plug & play rigs, prebuild antennas, mouse click call sign exchange QSO's, auto logging, and virtual QSL'ing.  No wonder many have dubbed it "playing" radio.
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KC0W

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Re: Surprise LOTW discovery -- Cards are so optional now
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2023, 05:16:32 PM »

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A few months ago I get a phone call saying ALL cards were accidentally thrown out during "fall cleaning" by their weekly house cleaning person.

Hundreds & hundreds & hundreds of hours down the drain.   

Now I understand why you are so "philosophical" at times. :o

Jokes aside, that hurts big time. Some/most people will say life goes on, sure, but still...

 My ethnicity is predominately Greek but I'm no Socrates, Plato or Aristotle.  :)
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