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Author Topic: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV  (Read 922 times)

KD8MJR

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2023, 12:28:38 PM »

We had some strong short skip today so CY0S was doing very well on FT8.  However, he would've had a giant SSB pileup with all the area 1 and 2 stations calling but I haven't even heard them once on SSB.

I'll take the challenge points but sometimes I feel it's too easy on FT8.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel if you have a station that is even remotely good.  I don't know what skill level they are talking about but once you understand how to get them centered in a narrow filter it's just press the mouse and wait or set the dam thing on Pounce and go get a meal.
When you come back it's most likely already logged.
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NU1O

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2023, 01:07:45 PM »

We had some strong short skip today so CY0S was doing very well on FT8.  However, he would've had a giant SSB pileup with all the area 1 and 2 stations calling but I haven't even heard them once on SSB.

I'll take the challenge points but sometimes I feel it's too easy on FT8.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel if you have a station that is even remotely good.  I don't know what skill level they are talking about but once you understand how to get them centered in a narrow filter it's just press the mouse and wait or set the dam thing on Pounce and go get a meal.
When you come back it's most likely already logged.

Once you learn how to use FT8 what skill is involved?  I set my XMIT frequency at 1776 and I haven't moved it since I've been using the WSJT-X and it has been years. Hitting a baseball took skill.  I just don't see the skill with this mode.
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WG5G

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2023, 01:25:20 PM »

Back that power down to 5 watts, disable CAT control, & you get back to
me on how easy it is or if any skill is involved.

Dan WG5G
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KD6KVL

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2023, 01:26:55 PM »

People want to feel no matter what they achieve, that its meaningful somehow.  Some lick windows, some fart in bathtubs and laugh...other claim skill is involved in pressing a button all day to make qso's....Who are we to yuck their yums?
Go be a big, bright, shining star today day Champ!
Frank KG6N
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Frank KG6N

KD6KVL

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2023, 01:27:46 PM »

"Back that power down to 5 watts, disable CAT control, & you get back to
me on how easy it is or if any skill is involved."
That's not what they are doing and you know it.
Frank KG6N
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Frank KG6N

KD8MJR

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2023, 01:32:01 PM »

We had some strong short skip today so CY0S was doing very well on FT8.  However, he would've had a giant SSB pileup with all the area 1 and 2 stations calling but I haven't even heard them once on SSB.

I'll take the challenge points but sometimes I feel it's too easy on FT8.


It's like shooting fish in a barrel if you have a station that is even remotely good.  I don't know what skill level they are talking about but once you understand how to get them centered in a narrow filter it's just press the mouse and wait or set the dam thing on Pounce and go get a meal.
When you come back it's most likely already logged.

Once you learn how to use FT8 what skill is involved?  I set my XMIT frequency at 1776 and I haven't moved it since I've been using the WSJT-X and it has been years. Hitting a baseball took skill.  I just don't see the skill with this mode.

It's kind of funny when your seeing the station bright red in the waterfall and yet it's not decoding.  Then I throw on 12Db of attenuation and it starts to decode.  WTF when do you ever use attenuation in Ham Radio except with FT8?  Maybe just for some noise reduction but not because the signal is overpowering your station.  I have had that happen in reverse where after 15 minutes I am not getting a reply.  I drop the power down and within a few minutes he replies.
The longest time I have ever waited for an FT8 contact must have been about 45 minutes and that was on those two busted 3Y0J contacts when they were 14 minutes off.  Compare that to my attempts to reach 3YOJ with CW, I spent hours and hours trying for days at a time and still no luck.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 01:43:07 PM by KD8MJR »
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KD8MJR

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2023, 01:38:29 PM »

Back that power down to 5 watts, disable CAT control, & you get back to
me on how easy it is or if any skill is involved.

Dan WG5G

Back the power down to 5 Watts and try to make a contact using QRP in SSB during a big pileup and then lets compare.  You will never get through while with FT8 there is a pretty good chance that you will.

Anyway this discussion is not about cutting off your legs and then trying to run a race, it's about how easy it is to make the FT8 contact when you have a half way decent station.  I am sure all of those 100W G5RV loving stations are feeling the sting now that DXpeditions are forcing the Big Guns to use FT8.
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N4UFO

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2023, 01:40:04 PM »

Once you learn how to use FT8 what skill is involved?

Once you learn to send CW with a key, what skill is involved? Same thing! In a CW pileup it's knowing where to transmit and other such things. FT8 has it's own strategies to learn. I used them with CY0S just the other day. They are using a different setup than previous DXpeditions and after a lot of unsuccessful calling, I changed my strategy and worked them in minutes. Another ham I know arrived at the same conclusion, did the same thing and got the same results. Our experience and knoweldge (skill) over other callers won out.

No offense, but stating that you don't know what skill is involved says more about you than the mode.  :)

It's kind of funny when your seeing the station bright red in the waterfall and yet it's not decoding.  Then I throw on 12Db of attenuation and it starts to decode.  I have had that happen in reverse where after 15 minutes I am not getting a reply.  I drop the power down and within a few minutes he replies.
The longest time I have ever waited for an FT8 contact must have been about 45 minutes and that was on those two busted 3Y0J contacts when they were 14 minutes off.  Compare that to my attempts to reach 3YOJ with CW, I spent hours and hours trying for days at a time and still no luck.

"I drop the power down and within a few minutes he replies."

Do you know to check your ALC while transmitting and set your audio levels to NEVER have the ALC kick into compression? The ALC causes distortion and makes your signal more difficult to copy. Again, there IS skill involved.
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WG5G

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2023, 01:47:45 PM »

To KD8MJR

When you get a chance, read my QRZ page all the way to the bottom.

Dan WG5G
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KB8GAE

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2023, 01:48:25 PM »

We had some strong short skip today so CY0S was doing very well on FT8.  However, he would've had a giant SSB pileup with all the area 1 and 2 stations calling but I haven't even heard them once on SSB.

My guess is they may do an entry in the WPX SSB this weekend.

73 Rich KB8GAE
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KD8MJR

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2023, 01:53:22 PM »

Do you know to check your ALC while transmitting and set your audio levels to NEVER have the ALC kick into compression? The ALC causes distortion and makes your signal more difficult to copy. Again, there IS skill involved.

Please cut the Baby chatter.  I Never assume that anybody on this Forum is dumb, even those I have blocked.  We have all been doing this for a long time and it's not to hard to figure out how to setup your ALC, Compression etc.  That is something you learn very early on and later on always do on day one of getting a new radio.
It's also not hard to clean up almost any Rx signal so that it can be decoded.  The kicker for me was having to attenuate an incoming signal by 12Db for a DXpedition that is 4000 miles away.  That's a new one for me and just reinforces that this thing is way to easy.
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NU1O

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2023, 02:03:06 PM »


It's also not hard to clean up almost any Rx signal so that it can be decoded.  The kicker for me was having to attenuate an incoming signal by 12Db for a DXpedition that is 4000 miles away.  That's a new one for me and just reinforces that this thing is way to easy.

You beat me to the punch.  He's talking about how to use a radio properly and not demonstrating there is any skill involved with FT8.  We learn early on to just have the ALC deflect a little when using SSB.  It's no different with FT8.

Sometimes, and that's almost always outside a DXpedition, FT8 is simply too easy.  I'd like to see a study on how challenge points have climbed since the start of FT8. 
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KD8MJR

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2023, 02:13:10 PM »

To KD8MJR

When you get a chance, read my QRZ page all the way to the bottom.

Dan WG5G
That is a nice accomplishment Dan.
The question is how many thousands of hours did that take to accomplish?  Most of us do not have that kind of time to be on the radio and based on my own attempts at going QRP I am now a firm believer in the saying that "Life is to short for QRP."

BTW I had no idea by what you meant when you said remove CAT control and work FT8.
Are there radios on the Market with FT8 built in?  I am not even sure why someone would use that.
My Icom can do RTTY and PSK31 but I think I only tried it once.  It sucked, not because of the decoding capability but because of the horrible ergonomics of using it.

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EI2GLB

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2023, 02:30:11 PM »

If FT8 is so easy why do I constantly see guys calling the DX on the same period as they DX, and they are mostly NA stations,

FT8 is easier than CW for sure but it has its challenges as well, you guys with your yagis up 100ft and 1.5kw amps just don't struggle to work anything like us Mickey Mouse stations do,
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N4UFO

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Re: 9X5RU Rwanda QRV
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2023, 02:35:18 PM »

My intention is not to insult you because I disagree that this is something 'everyone knows'... many traditional SSB/CW ops do not know how to properly adjust things like setting the ALC especially with regards to FT8, as I encounter over driving stations constantly. And my understanding is you want NO deflection with digital, so it's set slightly lower than SSB. (And I set it in the computer software, not the radio, so as not to change my voice settings). Bottom line, I consider proper station configuration as part of the required skill.

That aside, there is still the comparison of TX placement in a pileup... same as with CW. You failed to address that. I can't imagine you need CY0S anywhere (I only needed one band) but the guys trying to work it right now are having a lot of difficulty until they figure out where the DX software is actually 'listening' and adjust.


Not trying to start an argument, just trying to make the point that while so many come down on the new digital modes, their arguments as to 'why' fall flat. My contention is either they are just biased and using 'confirmation bias' to make their points or they simply do not understand the nuances involved in digital. Kudos if you do, and if you don't and don't care, then I will leave you to it. But I'm an op of 45+ years and proficient at CW... I don't understand the hatred and vitriol towards the digital modes. (In general, not directing that necessarily at anyone here.)

With that, I'll shut up now.  ;)

If FT8 is so easy why do I constantly see guys calling the DX on the same period as they DX, and they are mostly NA stations,

Okay, this was posted while I was typing... my theory is that they are blind calling based on a cluster/spotter post. Not a good idea anywhere, but especially bad on FT8.  :P
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 02:40:49 PM by N4UFO »
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