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Author Topic: Sherwood - Choosing among the bottom of the List  (Read 724 times)

K7JQ

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Re: Sherwood - Choosing among the bottom of the List
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2023, 07:54:41 AM »

Usually, things at the bottom of *any* list are the ones to avoid ;). Is your reason for asking a matter of price, or just something to stir up a discussion?

No matter what’s at the bottom of the list, a modern, still in production radio like the IC-7300 can be bought used as low as $700 (maybe less if you bargain). Parts and service are easily attainable, and it’s performance can come close to those near the top of the list.
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N8YX

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Re: Sherwood - Choosing among the bottom of the List
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2023, 10:21:59 AM »

I have a few mentioned in this thread:

IC-751A (with an R-71A companion)
TS-830S
FT-980

I'm not close to any ultra-high-power HF transmitters, and the latter two have no issues at all with IMD. The Icoms have a couple of design deficiencies in the AM detector circuit which under certain circumstances can result in distortion when receiving that mode, but the condition is easily fixed via known mods.

That being said, the Icom ensemble is my daily driver in the main floor home office/shack.
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WO7R

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Re: Sherwood - Choosing among the bottom of the List
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2023, 11:42:23 PM »

I really see no point in going after these old bottom of the line radios these days.

The Icom 7300 has revolutionized rig pricing and put tremendous pricing pressure on modern rigs.

A lot of old rigs, nearly or actually boat anchors have (miraculously in my view) managed to hold on to price points in the 500 dollar range.

But if you can get a uses IC 7300 for around 700 dollars, it will beat the pants off of just about everything unless you make a tin god out of this or that receiver spec or insist on tubes or something.  But, that's not most 500 to 1000 dollar rig buyers. They mostly want bang for the limited buck..

The blunt fact is, even if the IC 7300 has all wave soldered highly integrated circuits, it will be repairable at the whole board level for a good 20 years to come and maybe more.

If you want a rig you can expect to operate as opposed to having a repair journey every time some 20 or 30 year old part gives up the ghost, then go with the 7300 or some other modern rig.

If you just love old rigs and want to buy one, that's a different kettle of fish.  But you will almost certainly find that if you can indeed get the rig in the 700 dollar range, or even for full retail, the extra money will turn out to be well spent in actual operating time.

I had a Kenwood 930 for years, loved it, but would never consider it today.  I think it comes in around 500 dollars.

Don't like the 7300?  There's lots of other rigs out there, modern, new, with similar prices thanks to the IC 7300.  So, it helps you even if you don't buy it.

There's just no reason other than to run an antique radio to go any older than the 7300 vintage.
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KD7RDZI2

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Re: Sherwood - Choosing among the bottom of the List
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2023, 02:58:15 AM »

Thank you all for the posts. I have read every single word all very carefully and I will reread them before selecting a used rig.

The price pressure that the new 710 and the 7300 are making in addition to "demographic" effects, I expect that the prices of used rigs will drop significantly in the next years.

Although I would  be intrigued by using the "worst of the worst" in the Sherwood list, the yaesu 757, most likely I will wait for a 735, 751(A), 761 or 765 or very old Ten-Tecs. Rather than focusing on close-in dynamic range, I am looking for a good all-mode TX audio, that does not generate spikes and that can be safely used with (ukraine) V-U transverters without adding attenuators. Also I want to add additional RX devices such as preselectors, splitters and noise cancellers, so I want the receiver have a separate antenna RX output and an antenna RX input and it seems the Icom I mentioned they have them. So, in my view, flexibility is more important than other characteristics. Also I look to rigs with Blocking dynamic range>125, with rather low noise oscillators (at least 115) and a 20 khz dynamic range of around 90db. If I find a very strong station 2 khz apart I have all the rest of the band where to look for.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 03:03:47 AM by KD7RDZI2 »
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K1KIM

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Re: Sherwood - Choosing among the bottom of the List
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2023, 06:30:20 AM »

I have the TS-520s, TS-820s, TS-430s and a few of the new SDR's.

While I will agree that the 520, 820 hybrids are strong workhorses, they also come with their problems and difficulties for a new ham. Tubes, alignment, dip and load etc. are to name a few.

My 430s is in use weekly, but sure feels antiquated compared to my newer rigs with spectrum scopes and touch screens. How quickly we become spoiled by the ease of use of an SDR and an Auto Tuner.

My old Kenwoods sit on the ham storage shelf and are brought up with the variac every 6 months "just because"



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So Many Toys.......So Little Time!

WO7R

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Re: Sherwood - Choosing among the bottom of the List
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2023, 04:32:54 PM »

Quote
The price pressure that the new 710 and the 7300 are making in addition to "demographic" effects, I expect that the prices of used rigs will drop significantly in the next years.

You make a good point for yourself here.

I have been surprised that the old rigs have held their value so well.  But, suppose you are correct and current old rig prices are a fool's paradise?

Well, then that means that an old rig, bought today, is false economy because there is significant risk that it won't hold its value.  Losing money -- lots of it -- on rigs at the upper end of the spectrum is old news.  You pay 2000, 3000 dollars for a rig, you expect to lose a lot of that when you resell it four or five years hence.  That is not something one has heretofore expected for the under 1000 class simply because there isn't as much money in the first place.  But, in this current circumstance, maybe not.  Especially as 7300s start to show up in larger numbers in the used market.

If one's money is limited to begin with, then this risk makes the older rigs an even worse idea.  Why buy a rig for 500 and then sell it for 250 a couple of years later?

Because, that is very likely what will happen if your judgement is correct.  I know of virtually nobody that holds on to their first rig, especially if it was bought used and budget overwhelmed other factors.  Most of us do move up the line over time.

Would you rather spend 500 and sell it for 250 or spend 750 and sell it for 500?  I can't say this will happen -- a lot of old rigs have defied economic gravity.  But, you yourself suggest they might not.

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