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FOURFA

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« on: May 28, 2003, 08:32:07 PM »

Hi there folks.  I'm looking for advice about a handi-talkie for emergency use on extended solo backpacking and climbing trips.  Potentially hundreds of miles from civilization (the guy who had to amputate his own hand in Canyonlands NP?  That's what I want to avoid).

I'll start by saying I'm a total novice, no license (planning to get one), no ham experience.  I am an engineer so don't worry about the jargon.

Weight is the #1 enemy here.  About 8 oz is the maximum weight I can budget for this (may not seem like much, but weight on solo trips can quickly spiral out of control).  Ruggedness would be nice, but I expect to store the thing in waterproof plastic deep in the pack until needed.   Conditions will include winter and/or high elevations.  Range, battery life - tell me what the options are.

A fellow backpacker recommended the Yaesu VX5R or VX1.  The VX5R seems popular and (as far as I can tell) seems to fit my needs, although rather complex to my eyes.  Are there other models I should consider?  What bands would be most useful in my situation?  What features should I be seeking? My budget is under $300, please.  

I've been assuming that if I needed rescue, I'd use the radio to contact someone who could call the rangers via phone and relay my info.  Are there other methods here - do rangers/police/SAR monitor certain bands for example?  Can a HT tie into phone service somehow?

Lastly, the other option is one of the newly-approved Personal Locator Beacons that alert search and rescue though satellites on 406 MHz.  These are more expensive, larger and heavier than HTs, one way only, and relatively unproven.  Is this a correct assessment?

At the moment satellite phones are out due to cost ($1500+).

Thanks very much for any info.

andy r.
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FOURFA

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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2003, 08:32:56 PM »

ack, sorry I missed the subject field!

andy r.
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AB8JC

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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2003, 08:41:46 AM »

A V/UHF handheld (e.g. VX-5 or VX-1) is unlikely to do you much good "hundreds of miles from civilization."  You need HF for that; I'd specifically look at NVIS on 80 &/or 40M.  That said, it's my understanding there are a *few* wilderness spots where there are linked repeaters covering a considerable area (I seem recall that the area around Denali has multiple linked repeaters on mountaintops that provide pretty significant coverage, for example).  But that is something you'd need to research for each trip.

A 40M CW (Morse-code-only) QRP (under 5W output) rig can be built in an Altoids tin (e.g., FOXX-3 from Kanga USA).  With a lightweight wire dipole, you can keep weight manageable, but you'd have trouble seting up the antenna in the amputate-your-own-hand scenario.  Using NVIS, you can get the kind of range you need.  [NVIS = Near Vertical Incidence Skywave, a propagation mode generally used on 80 & 40 meter Amateur bands to obtain reliable communications out to a few/several hundred miles, depending on conditions, power levels, antenna systems, etc.]

Another option would be to find something like a used Mizuho HF handheld.  They were made for the non-WARC bands (80,40,20,15,10M) and have SSB (voice) capability.  They are still QRP, and you'll still need longish wire antennas.  Weight will be a more serious issue here, but they've a fair amount more capability also.

The next step up is something like the Yaesu FT-817.  You've completely blown your weight budget at this level, though.  It has 160M through UHF in one box.  Antenna requirements range from the wire types mentioned earlier to typical handheld "rubber duckies" on V/UHF for limited range.  The SGC SG-2020 is in roughly the same class, but has 20W output, is more bulky, more finicky about battery voltage, and doesn't include V/UHF.

Some folks will tell you QRP isn't sufficient for this application.  While my personal choice certainly would not be to rely solely on HF QRP in a life-or-death situation, it's surely better than nothing.  Getting beyond QRP, given your stringent weight budget, simply isn't going to happen, and in New Zealand, the mountain rescue service rents out lightweight 1W radios to untrained backpackers all the time as survival equipment.

Personally, I don't see the point in taking a V/UHF HT on a backpacking trip unless you know *for certain* there is a good repeater covering your intended trekking area.  If the goal of the trip is backpacking and I wanted a radio along to play with and maybe provide some EmComm comfort, I'd take the 40M CW rig.  If the goal is playing radio from a neat location, I'd take the FT-817 (or maybe the SG-2020).  Some lightweight antenna wire (26 ga. Teflon-coated) and a small, lightweight manual tuner (e.g. the NorCal QRP Club's BLT) would be great for multi-band operation.

Hope this helps.  

Steve AB8JC
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K2GW

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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2003, 02:11:45 PM »

Andy:

>>I'm looking for advice about a handi-talkie for emergency use on extended solo backpacking and climbing trips. Potentially hundreds of miles from civilization.

Unfortunately, since they're VHF and UHF, no five watt hand-talkie is going to get you further than 20 miles or so to a repeater.  Fortunately, there are are thousands of amatuer radio repeaters across the country.  You can get an idea of which ones are available for the area (and thus what bands beside two meters) make the most sense to use at http://www.artscipub.com/repeaters/

>>(the guy who had to amputate his own hand in Canyonlands NP? That's what I want to avoid).

As a former SAR officer, you don't need a radio, just common sense.  You can avoid that by simply bringing a buddy and filing a trip plan with someone trusted.  If you have an HT you can supplement that with a daily check-in schedule with a fellow amateur.

>>I've been assuming that if I needed rescue, I'd use the radio to contact someone who could call the rangers via phone and relay my info.

That's correct

>>Are there other methods here - do rangers/police/SAR monitor certain bands for example?

For the most part, no.

>>Can a HT tie into phone service somehow?  

In many cases, amateur repeaters have a feature called autopatch to do this.

>>Lastly, the other option is one of the newly-approved Personal Locator Beacons that alert search and rescue though satellites on 406 MHz. These are more expensive, larger and heavier than HTs, one way only, and relatively unproven. Is this a correct assessment?

I'm not familar with the new personal ones, but the older 121.5 and 243 MHz ELT's and EPIRBS have been easily located by the SARSAT/COSPAS system since the 1980's.  

Unfortunately they had a high false activation rate so SOP was for two orbits before dispatching SAR forces unless something was know to be missing the area.  The 406.1 MHz include encoded ID's so the owner is identified.

If folks abuse them, then they may have the same restrictions.  They will certainly cost more than an  HT.

73

Gary Wilson, K2GW
Section Emergency Coordinator
Southern New Jersey Section


 
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FOURFA

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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2003, 02:21:15 PM »

Thanks for the info guys.
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ELV1S

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« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2003, 02:46:36 PM »

If you are NOT a ham, do not waste your time and money on ham radio gear. If you take the time and EFFORT to get your GENERAL CLASS or Amateur Extra Class license, then I would suggest a small solid state HF rig - FT-817, IC-703, K2, K1... LEARN MORSE CODE.
But since you are not (yet) a ham, spend the money on a personal locator beacon, a flare gun, a box of strike anywhere matches, a US Special Forces manual, ARC First Aid manual...
If you are going to take an ELT, pack it well! The CAP/USAF/SAR guys get real upset when some hiker or hunter drops his pack and sets the thing off.
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KD7EVS

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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2003, 10:43:44 PM »

just for kicks...


what area of the world do you live in?  the best thing would be for you to meet hams around you, maybe attend a meeting and you can get some more info about your area. more info than any of us ESPECIALLY THOSE OF "US"  THAT ENJOY USING ALL CAPS could ever give you.    feel free to e-mail me "zeb @hangarz.com" and with a bit of searching with the ARRL we can find you a local or two to talk to. find a local, find local knowledge.   some places that are "hundreds of miles from civilization" you can actually do very well with on vhf with an HT. though I would suggest the VX-5 since it has 50mhz (6 meters) on it too.

another thing is, if you come up missing, and people look for you and someone know's your a ham they'll scan all the popular freqs while flying around looking. so even if not in good repeater coverage, worst case senario (hopefully) you would be able to talk to someone in a plane.    most search and rescue orginizations at least know about ham radio and would know how to listen for you.

though low power (QRP) on HF would be ok as the one ham mentioned.

e-mail me and I'll hook you up with a local club or group. I assume your out west with us, since it's not that easy to get "hundreds of miles away from civilation" back east.  


zeb
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FOURFA

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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2003, 01:57:36 PM »

I'm in california ordinarily, and I think my worst-case-scenario is soloing on the colorado plateau (northern AZ, southern Utah, western Colorado).  The hard thing here (seem to me) is that the interesting canyons there are very deep and narrow, with potentially only a small crack of exposed sky.

The more usual situation would be in the Sierra Nevada or Cascades, although it's pretty hard to get very far from other people there.

thanks again for any and all info.  this has been very enlightening.
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KE4DRN

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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2003, 08:58:33 PM »

hi,

Do take kd7evs zeb up on his offer to help.

I am sure you will locate fellow operators that also have interests in climbing and backpacking.

Many explore outer space and inner space !

73 james
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