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Author Topic: Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?  (Read 14980 times)

KE4ZHN

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2008, 03:08:33 AM »

I thought a ham did EMCOMM work to help out in an emergency. Are they not people who volunteer their time and equipment for FREE to help others in times of disaster? Why all the formality crap? It would be just as easy for someone to pass health and welfare traffic from their own emergency station independent of official agencies without all the fluff and ridiculous BS. Most of the time they dont want or need our help anyway. Im more than happy to help out in times of disaster, but I dont need to jump through a dozen hoops to do so. If thats the case I'll save my own arse and let the rest fend for themselves. Years ago we never had any of this nonsense and EMCOMM worked just fine. Ever since 9-11 this country has become so paranoid its pathetic. Now, everyones a potential terrorist. The terrorist zealots got exactly what they wanted. A nation full of paranoid scared sheep.
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N2UGB

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2008, 07:46:28 AM »

Agree totally with ZHN.

Back in the early 1980's I volunteered as a river watcher during the Spring flood season. Stood by the locks and gave water levels to the control operator via a little HT. I could walk 5 minutes to the site. No formal organization, but the reports got through.

I will never sign any loyalty oath. I willingly raised my right hand when I enlisted. That was the first and will be the last time.

We have become a paranoid nation and the movers and shakers of this country are taking every advantage of our mass hysteria.
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PHOOBARNVAZ

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2008, 01:15:07 AM »

They've required these to work at the state/local level in Arizona since the "Red" scare in the late 40's. Whether or not I tell the truth or am lying...I just sign it & go about my merry way...since if someone is paranoid enough to do their research would find that most people have no idea what they are signing or especially why.
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K1CJS

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2008, 08:27:42 AM »

I also agree with ZHN.  Loyalty oaths actually question the loyalty of people who are required to repeat them or sign off on them.  They're just there to make people feel like they're 'officially under the control' of the agency/group the oath is sworn to.  The 'collar and leash' is not needed for people serious about helping out when needed.  

I've said this before--I WAS the radio/RACES officer for the city where I live.  The EMA director saw where the tide was pushing the boat and stepped down--he let me know what was going to go on, and so I also stepped down.  

The EMA here has gone down to the point they can't even get people to volunteer to serve coffee, never mind man shelters.  They can't even get someone to check into the state EMA net every month.  The current EMA 'director' could care less.  All he's concerned with is the extra cash that comes in his city paycheck every month.  The EMA here is actually under the control of the fire chief--a bending of the state laws, and the mayor and other officials take no notice of it--I doubt they even know about it.

Why swear allegiance to a system that is broken and that nobody cares about?  Yet volunteers are required to do just that.  When something goes wrong, who is gonna get cornered?  The volunteers!  The 'officials' will just say they had no idea what was going on--and the sad part about it is they would be right.

No thank you.  I'll do my emcomm work from my home.  I'm known by some of the city department heads and also on the state level, and if I'm needed they know where to find me.
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K1CJS

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2008, 07:39:40 AM »

"I sincerely believe that we need a national ID card issued at the Federal level and imlemented with smart card technology. With that in place, it could also serve as your driver license, various organizational ID's and also could contain your emergency medical records, etc."

To some people, that smacks of an unpleasant period of history--"Let me see your papers....."  Too many of us would say that that is the direction this country is going toward now.  

I'm not looking for argument--just making an observation here.
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NV2A

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2008, 10:33:39 AM »

I may be mistaken on this but if:

You take a loyalty oath and turn out to be leaking information to the enemy, because of the oath, you have now violated the oath and may be held in violation.  

I signed a DD98 form in the US Army stating that I was not a subversive and had not been a member of various questionable groups.  I would have been more surprised if you said they were going to attach a fee (tax) before they'd let you sign it !!

Nothing wrong with asking where your loyalty lies just like there is nothing wrong with expecting a candidate for U. S. President to proudly wear his countries flag on his lapel.
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KC0ZYM

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2008, 11:21:17 PM »

All:

I am not really sure what all the rancor is about.

These rules, in this case the Illinois Emergency Management Act, 20 ILCS 3305 Sec. 20, Emergency Management Agency; Personnel; Oath., have existed since the middle of the Cold War.  I cannot trace this specific rule back, but I am sure it dates to the 1960's or 1970's, though the date of the current rule is Feb. 2002.  The law section was probably rewritten after 9/11, with the re-alignment of FEMA once and for all from the "Civil Defense" model to the "Department of Homeland Security" model.

I am a new Ham, but those familiar with RACES operations should be very familiar with this oath since it theoretically has been required since the Seventies.  For any that are interested, the State of Missouri has the same rule with exactly the same oath (minus the Illinois stuff) that appears to date to 1967 which is codified at RSMo 44.115, Persons employed by or associated with Civil Defense Agencies -- qualifications -- oath required.

I guess if anyone would be interested, you could write your State Representative or Senator to get these dinosaur laws repealed, assuming FEMA doesn't still require them as a part of the Stafford Act.

73's

MAFriel - KC0ZYM
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KD6NIG

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2008, 09:54:39 AM »

Whats next?  Honestly?

The check that a good portion of hams should fear-a physical as well as a drug test.  Think about it-all the stuff being done now except for the oath thing is stuff you'd do to get a paying job.

The only thing they haven't done yet is require you to have the skills BEFORE accepting the position (ie, meeting 'skill requirements') and a physical exam and drug screen.

And if the average hamfest tells us anything, I think if this is implemented you'll be hearing the most crowing of all.  I'm surprised they don't do it already to avoid some ham having a coronary or breaking a leg and suing the served agencies because it happened while they were helping them out.

Its the next step, you watch.  And, I'm betting you'll be paying the fee to the doctor for the tests.
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KF4URY

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2008, 09:20:54 AM »

If I wanted to put out even more money to volunteer, I'd go back to the fire dept  LOL
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K1CJS

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2008, 06:38:50 AM »

"......I signed a DD98 form in the US Army stating that I was not a subversive and had not been a member of various questionable groups. I would have been more surprised if you said they were going to attach a fee (tax) before they'd let you sign it !!....."

Watch out--the way things are going these days, this may be the next step.  Please--don't give them any ideas!  :-)
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AC2Q

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2008, 09:34:52 AM »

 KD6NIG writes:

 Think about it-all the stuff being done now except for the oath thing is stuff you'd do to get a paying job.
---------------------------------------------------

Ahhh...Bach.......

BUT, It is NOT a paying job.
 
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AC2Q

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Loyalty Oaths/Background Checks/What's Next?
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2008, 09:38:34 AM »

 ONAIR writes:
 
Don't worry about ID cards. They are developing technology that can detect if you are carrying a weapon or a firearm from over 200 feet away.

---------------------------------------------

So thats 70 yards +/-    ..........Aim a little higher, and correct for windage if needed.
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