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Author Topic: Slow lingering death of MARS.  (Read 942116 times)

N9AOP

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #60 on: January 09, 2015, 02:21:15 PM »

Why did the first person start this thread.  Last time I checked, we still have freedom of choice in the US of A.  If you think MARS is useless then find something else to do with your time.   On the other hand, these posts sure bring out the trolls.
Art
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W1MSG

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2015, 08:41:00 AM »

Why did the first person start this thread.  Last time I checked, we still have freedom of choice in the US of A.  If you think MARS is useless then find something else to do with your time.   On the other hand, these posts sure bring out the trolls.
Art

For the very same reason you mention, is probably why the OP posted it. He probably isn't far off in his assessment as far as I am concerned. There needs to be opposing views for people to make informed decisions about whether they should join or not.

I was a member of Army MARS for a very short period. I was still on active duty at the time and was about a year out from my retirement. I did all of the Training including all the FEMA stuff which really had no bearing on current Military procedures or requirements. The radio procedures felt very antiquated to me, and if they ever happened to be on an official Military net no one would know what the heck they were saying. Not that it would ever happen as most military communications are encrypted using a hardware encryption algorithm. Phone patches and Mars Grams are all but forgotten with the only exception being an occasional phone patch for an Air Force Flight crew.
I couldn't participate in many of the nets as they were at times when I was at work or traveling to and from, it seemed to be geared more to the convenience of the retired group that seemed to make up the majority of members.

Today's MARS program is swaying more to the disaster relief and EMCOMM side of things and doesn't appear to be much different than the ARES programs already in place, with the exception being its a national/federal type entity, which really gives it no more or less credibility.

Technology has changed, MARS is still trying to cling to the past which there is no need. When I wanted to call home from Iraq during my last tour ( 2006/2007 )I just dialed on my Iraqi Cell Phone which worked fine for the most part. The times I was on a big base I could just do Skype via Satellite Internet. 

Creating a solution for a problem that doesn't exist is just that.

Anyway thats my take on it, if someone wants to get involved so be it, if they don't that's fine too, but to call someone a troll because they have opposing views of its usefulness just makes it look that much worse.

73

Craig, W1MSG
I Guess I'm a Troll too !
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WB2MVM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2015, 09:30:47 AM »

Hi W1MSG!

"AMEN!" to you Craig!

While MARS' new purpose(s) is/are different from what it used to be, it's thanks to this new mission in EMCOMMS, that MARS continues to have a "raison d'ĂȘtre"--and from a practical viewpoint, that's a good thing!

Let's face it, despite the $$ that the DOD gets, they still have to do a certain amount of fiscal belt tightening. Therefore, if the armed forces can save $$ by having a certain amount/level of EMCOMMS outsourced to civilian voluteers, that'll do it for free......!

73 de WB2MVM

P.S.: Is your call sign Chinese food? I ask because it contains "MSG".  ;D :D
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W1MSG

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2015, 06:33:43 PM »

Hi W1MSG!

"AMEN!" to you Craig!

While MARS' new purpose(s) is/are different from what it used to be, it's thanks to this new mission in EMCOMMS, that MARS continues to have a "raison d'ĂȘtre"--and from a practical viewpoint, that's a good thing!

Let's face it, despite the $$ that the DOD gets, they still have to do a certain amount of fiscal belt tightening. Therefore, if the armed forces can save $$ by having a certain amount/level of EMCOMMS outsourced to civilian voluteers, that'll do it for free......!

73 de WB2MVM

P.S.: Is your call sign Chinese food? I ask because it contains "MSG".  ;D :D

Only if MSG gives you a headache as it does some folks.. But actually it is the abbreviation for Master Sergeant, which will also give you a head ache if you are a lower enlisted or a Lieutenant. ;->

Yup re purposing into the EMCOMM realm is about the only avenue available for MARS to be useful. Of course that is only if there are places that need it...

73

Craig, W1MSG 
MSG, USAMP Retired 
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AFA6MD

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2015, 10:24:41 PM »

Craig,

With all due respect, I kindly ask you to reexamine your hypothesis that MARS, or any other AUXCOMM group for that matter, is ever superfluous. What I will write here is not in any way or form criticism of you or others. It is just the same as your posts - a statement.

It always strikes me as odd that some people just go by the premise that the status quo will always exist. The memory of huge events is so often short lived. Remember Hurricane Katrina? Suddenly the entire infrastructure was down.

The commenters here on this thread on eHam often seem to live in a news vacuum, unperturbed by what is going on in the US and worldwide. Trained communicators were needed in WW2 and during the Cold War and we are in the middle of an ongoing crisis, most just don't realize it yet, or just don't want to acknowledge it.

I can only interpret their reaction as:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_(psychology)
or else I would have to assume that they are ignorant as to the world around them.

Did you by any chance hear about the following?

This attack took place 13 hours after the Boston bombing back in April 2013.  Could this have been a sleeper cell that attacked their target before they were suppose to?  Could it be his cell saw the lone wolf attack in Boston, incorrectly thinking this was the beginning of the attack to bring down satin, so they attacked their assigned target.  Is it possible there are MANY such cell waiting for the correct GO signal to hit their targets across the US?

Attackers severed six AT&T fiber optic telecommunication lines in an underground vault before starting attack, over 100 "finger print free" shell casings found, used flashlight to signal.
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_25072628/attack-pg-e-substation-sparks-concerns-about-possible
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-grid-attack-20140211,0,7627269.story
http://www.ibtimes.com/power-plant-attacks-spark-research-groups-urge-feds-take-control-power-grid-security-1620642

Or do I need to remind of the Carrington Event?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

The list goes on and on! By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail (Benjamin Franklin).


Thus, I challenge you:
http://www.ushistory.org/documents/ask-not.htm

And for all those who want to continue with their nay-saying and bickering:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_we_stand,_divided_we_fall
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W1MSG

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2015, 04:09:37 AM »

Craig,

With all due respect, I kindly ask you to reexamine your hypothesis that MARS, or any other AUXCOMM group for that matter, is ever superfluous. What I will write here is not in any way or form criticism of you or others. It is just the same as your posts - a statement.

It always strikes me as odd that some people just go by the premise that the status quo will always exist. The memory of huge events is so often short lived. Remember Hurricane Katrina? Suddenly the entire infrastructure was down.

The commenters here on this thread on eHam often seem to live in a news vacuum, unperturbed by what is going on in the US and worldwide. Trained communicators were needed in WW2 and during the Cold War and we are in the middle of an ongoing crisis, most just don't realize it yet, or just don't want to acknowledge it.

I can only interpret their reaction as:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_(psychology)
or else I would have to assume that they are ignorant as to the world around them.

Did you by any chance hear about the following?

This attack took place 13 hours after the Boston bombing back in April 2013.  Could this have been a sleeper cell that attacked their target before they were suppose to?  Could it be his cell saw the lone wolf attack in Boston, incorrectly thinking this was the beginning of the attack to bring down satin, so they attacked their assigned target.  Is it possible there are MANY such cell waiting for the correct GO signal to hit their targets across the US?

Attackers severed six AT&T fiber optic telecommunication lines in an underground vault before starting attack, over 100 "finger print free" shell casings found, used flashlight to signal.
http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_25072628/attack-pg-e-substation-sparks-concerns-about-possible
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-grid-attack-20140211,0,7627269.story
http://www.ibtimes.com/power-plant-attacks-spark-research-groups-urge-feds-take-control-power-grid-security-1620642

Or do I need to remind of the Carrington Event?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

The list goes on and on! By failing to prepare, you are preparing to fail (Benjamin Franklin).


Thus, I challenge you:
http://www.ushistory.org/documents/ask-not.htm

And for all those who want to continue with their nay-saying and bickering:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_we_stand,_divided_we_fall

I really don't have a need to re examine anything as I was a member at one time and found it worthless. Again my opinion.

I haven't forgotten Katrina, I spent many long days walking in knee deep contaminated water searching houses and providing additional Law Enforcement to the areas that needed it. I don't recall any MARS/EMCOMM ops tagging along so we could communicate. Our radios seemed to work just fine. They did do a pretty good job keeping track of how many people were in the shelters, but we usually already had that info. 

I also don't live in a news vacuum and I am well aware of many different incidences that have taken place, but I also don't see the boogie man behind everything that happens. I also have first hand knowledge that our Emergency Services are more than prepared for contingency operations in the event of a catastrophic event, more so than a guy with an HF radio and batteries.

No need to challenge me, I think 32+ years of service to this Nation including combat tours is more than most, but it was my decision to do and I did it Proudly.

I am glad you found your niche in Amateur Radio with MARS, and its still Amateur Radio, as with out the License you couldn't participate. I still don't understand your need to hide behind a MARS Call sign on an Amateur Radio site, but I guess you don't want the Boogie Man tracking you down ..
I seriously doubt opposing views will cause Amateur Radio to divide and fall, after all it is the original Social Media and without opposing views what would anyone talk about.

My 2 cents worth, if its even worth that. If you enjoy it and believe its worth something then by all means have at it. But don't attempt to silence those who have a different opinion of it.

Cheers,

Craig, W1MSG


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N9AOP

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2015, 10:28:54 AM »

Craig,
I disagree and I will tell you why.  Anytime someone asks me about an organization i.e. ARES, MARS, RACES, MASONS, I suggest that they join and find out for themselves.  In regard to MARS, you will find about half of the responders say that it is necessary and an excellent program and the other half will say that it serves no purpose these days.  Same with ARES etc.

So the person with the question about joining may as well flip a coin.

Art, N9AOP
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W1MSG

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2015, 10:47:49 AM »

Craig,
I disagree and I will tell you why.  Anytime someone asks me about an organization i.e. ARES, MARS, RACES, MASONS, I suggest that they join and find out for themselves.  In regard to MARS, you will find about half of the responders say that it is necessary and an excellent program and the other half will say that it serves no purpose these days.  Same with ARES etc.

So the person with the question about joining may as well flip a coin.

Art, N9AOP

You are dead on target Art. Flip a coin, join and find out for yourself.. Those that are members find it necessary, and those that aren't don't. I have been on both sides of the coin, and have my own informed opinions.

As I have stated, the Air Force MARS may serve a miniscule service providing phone patch to air crews but that's about as far as any Military usefulness goes in todays Military.

Again my opinions from my Military Service, and you know what they say about opinions......

73

Craig, W1MSG
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KC2QYM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2015, 08:33:46 AM »

I listen to MARS nets above 75 meters on occasion.  Net control and operators back and forth.  Well it's boring to me but then I don't care for nets of any type.  That said, if there's something important these guys are doing if not to just keep in practice then all it seems just an extension of the amateur radio hobby. Perhaps it's the nostagia of a bygone era in amateur radio kept alive by obsolete operating techniques by guys using DoD supplied equipment.  Who knows.  Anyway I don't see the value in it except the public relations value where the DoD can claim that there is inclusion of the civilian sector for emergency communications support .  I think most of us realize that if things fall apart so will MARS.
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AFA6MD

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2015, 11:16:41 PM »

Woa KC2QYM,

Where do you get your weak spirit from? Cultivate your mind! What do you stand for? What are your values? With that, you'll stop projecting your pessimism onto others.

The Elmers I've gained by joining MARS are for themselves already worth every routine task that comes about with any volunteer organization. And - routine is good if you want to be proficient.

73
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KC2QYM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2015, 08:23:57 AM »

In my opinion MARS is simply an extension of the amateur radio hobby.  That doesn't mean that hams should not participate in it.  I for one do not see it as a real value when things hit the skids.  We like to believe that we are preparing for some disaster by keeping at the ready when in reality, confusion reigns in the aftermath.  That's true historically.  The reconstitution of communications and the functionality of civil society in the aftermath of some unthinkable disaster will not happen as predicted.  Rather, small groups with local autonomy and control will form the way back.  Military and police authorities will be seen rather as the enemy than a power for good.  That's my opinion about it.  Others reading my opinion can weigh it against their own beliefs on the subject.  Not everyone is a blind follower af the majority opinion.
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KH6WM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #72 on: January 28, 2015, 06:17:35 PM »


To all MARS folks, especially Navy:

The Chief, Navy Marine Corps (NMC) MARS was pulled from his job around 15 September of last year and not replaced. Since then there has been no word from higher headquarters as to what is going on. Of course, nothing of substance has come from the Chief's office since then, essentially leaving NMC MARS leaderless.

Rumor has it that Navy higher-ups are working to abolish NMC MARS or transfer its functions to DHS, FEMA or who knows ?

Has anyone gone to their Congress reps or tried dealing with the Department of Navy ?

Warren  NNN0BVB/KH6WM



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KC2QYM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2015, 07:46:33 AM »

AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta from AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie. Who's in charge out there Sir?
AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie from AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta. Don't know lost contact with HQ...out
AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta from AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie. Well who's gonna issue orders of the day?
AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie from AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta. Don't know..wait one, need to get the soup off the stove
AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta from AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie.  BTW, any emergency traffic to pass?
AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie from AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta. Are you kiddin, we never have any emergency traffic, out.
AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta from AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie. Hey you're right so what the heck are we doing here?
AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie from AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta. Uhh stroking our egos and feeling all official and all that.
AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta from AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie. Yeah MARS used to be fun during the cold war...
AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie from AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta. Yeah..before satelitte phones, the internet.
AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta from AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie. The DoD used to give away radios and stuff.
AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie from AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta. Yeah, that's exactly why I joined..now they're a bunch of cheapskates
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KF5ER

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2015, 07:11:52 AM »

Why did the first person start this thread.  Last time I checked, we still have freedom of choice in the US of A.  If you think MARS is useless then find something else to do with your time.   On the other hand, these posts sure bring out the trolls.
Art

I fail to see how the first post had anything to do with freedom of choice.  Just my opinion of the eventual fate
of what was once a very good program.  Time moves along, new replaces old.  As for trolls...you replied.. :-\
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