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Author Topic: Slow lingering death of MARS.  (Read 942125 times)

WB2MVM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2015, 09:14:05 AM »

Maybe we should rename this post, "The Slow Lingering Death of 'The Slow Lingering Death of MARS' Thread"! :P ;D
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 09:20:20 AM by WB2MVM »
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W1MSG

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2015, 12:28:36 PM »

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/news/Top_Military_News/army-mars-program-still-g.shtml

 ;)

Thanks for the 9 year old article link, I believe I was in Iraq at that time. I actually think I read it when it came out at my Remote Outpost via Satellite Internet.

73
 
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N6JSX

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2015, 08:32:29 AM »

MARS needs to be totally re-scoped/re-purposed as the Vietnam era days are gone (prior to cell phones). Few of us today even have a home land-line. And with CW no longer deemed a valuable ability (that I still say is a gross FCC error) available communications modes are being redefined by the skills of your members.

MARS appears to be very slowly re-purposing to find a home within USA Govt Comm, now it looks like they are a very ancillary support to FEMA/HLS, but lastly our Military (except those units that are called for CONUS disaster support). MARS needs to be affiliated as a RACES organization to get FCC RACES protection for its members.

MARS needs to look at the big picture of how they can best support Govt comms when a national/regional disasters occur within the USA and how best they can fit in as well as how HIPA restrictions will affect comm traffic. They need to think out of the box, the what-if's, i.e. major Equake +9.5R, +F5 Hurricane, another major Mississippi flood, Solar EMP (or other) taking out regional electricity, Nuke reactor melt down --- what will be needed over a large geographical area of devastation that could be as short as a week to years. When one of these hits cell/phone/internet and electricity will be toast. The ONLY MARS stations will only be individual HAM stations on their own power! 

MARS needs to focus more on individual abilities to create a fully operational station not their rigid schedules/NETS that only weed out the working HAMs. Remember, the working HAMs earn the means to keep a station on the air. Oh and while MARS is at it - give credit to prior Service Technical training (USN Fire Control [RADAR/Guns/Missiles]) and Veteran HAMs that have gotten their BS & MS in a engineering program like EE/EET.

Otherwise MARS is just an organization of old-farts trying to fit into a bigger picture and being left behind.           

WB2MVM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #78 on: February 16, 2015, 08:37:49 AM »

AMEN & RIGHT ON N6JSX!!
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K4PIH

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #79 on: February 16, 2015, 05:22:27 PM »

This is right on target N6JSX I could not have said it better. I recently had a nostalgic relapse and signed up for MARS and even bought a new radio (needed on anyway). I remember back in the day when MARS served a purpose and was fun. Now, it's a playground for old mil types that want to relive their glory days on the radio. I actually participated in some training sessions only to find out that it was cut up into little fiefdoms and you had to do penance to get in. I was told I did not know how to operate a radio correctly, couldn’t format a message properly. The final straw was an email that I got saying that they were going to start practicing encryption with trans-lateral substitution where A was Z. A bunch of self –appointed self-important lids. I do SHARES for the federal government and wondered we didn’t interface more with MARS. Got it! Hey at least I got a new radio.
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KC2QYM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2015, 08:05:32 AM »

When we hear about EnComm we always think of natural disasters such as weather, or fires, power/grid outages. train/plane crashes etc.  What we don't appear to talk about is issurrection, terrorism, and other interruptions to our civil society.  These threats are very real and perhaps Americans may unfortunately come to understand this again in a post 911 world.  So the question is, where the heck does MARS fit into these scenarios?  Think about the people who are engaged in MARS, how the DoD incorporates or fails to incorporate those resources and the folly of thinking that MARS can muster a coordinated network within the reality of chaos.  It's time to hang up your spurs Martians; you're in the same hole as the rest of us when the S--T hits the fan.  All your nets and traffic handling won't really help.  If marshall law is proclaimed, what role do you truly expect to play.  Would the regular military engage you in their security planning and enforcement activities.  I doubt it, you might even become a source of supplies for wandering military teams cut off from their own HQs in the confusion aftermath.  Who is going to depend on a self important bunch of hobbyists for their communication needs?  Those of you who were inspired by the movie 'Independence Day' when CW saves the day as a means of international communication between human forces to defeat the aliens are really living in Science Fiction.
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N9AOP

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2015, 12:51:46 PM »

A shares net can also be sort of like having a heart attack.  Been there, done that.
Art
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KC2WI

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #82 on: February 17, 2015, 07:06:04 PM »

I've been a member of USAF MARS for about 10 years.

Yes the regular nets are fairly boring and little actual traffic is passed.  All the regular nets are just training nets. There is no requirement to check in to every net. The participation requirement for USAF MARS is 12 hours per quarter which is one hour a week.

There are periodic communications exercises which can get interesting. The push now is on developing more digital communications proficiency including interoperability with other government and military stations using the standard military modes. This is somewhat of a technical challenge to implement with ham equipment and computer/ sound card based modems.

The old MARS mission of providing welfare and morale messaging for the troops is gone. There is no need because of the general availability of Internet and cell phones for routine communications such as this.

There is still an active USAF MARS phone patch net that is used on a regular basis by the military, including some "morale" phone calls.

The MARS mission is now backup and supplemental communications support to military and other government agencies in times of emergency.

While the Internet, cell phones and satcom is generally available, there is still a lot of value in having an established trained group to provide backup and contingency communications using HF which does not rely on any infrastructure and also has members with stations scattered all across the US. The government spends very little on MARS so they are really getting a big bang for the buck.

While there are still 3 branches of MARS, there has been significant effort to standardize all operational procedures.  Generally speaking, most MARS nets are open to members of any branch. We regularly have Army and Navy-Marine members check in to our northeast region Air Force mars nets.

As a military communications auxiliary we follow the standard Allied Communications Procedures pretty closely. Whether or not some of these procedures are "antiquated" is something for the maintainers of these procedures to deal with.

MARS, like ARES/RACES, may not be super important in the grand scheme of emergency response. However it can't hurt to have a backup to other commercial and government systems and to have citizens who are engaged in emergency preparedness activities.

There are other people with other hobbies and somewhat specialized skill and knowledge and equipment who contribute to emergency response and public safety as volunteers. For example underwater rescue teams, search and rescue dog teams, etc. Why not amateur radio operators?

I would submit that MARS, or ARES, or RACES is at least as legitimate a focus for amateur radio 'hobbyists' as contesting, dxing, or anything else.
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KC8VWM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2015, 09:49:17 PM »

Mission?...What mission? ...There is no mission.

The only mission is to exchange MARS callsigns with other MARS stations.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 09:52:38 PM by KC8VWM »
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KH6DC

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #84 on: February 28, 2015, 04:14:50 PM »

Mission?...What mission? ...There is no mission.

The only mission is to exchange MARS callsigns with other MARS stations.


The last bunch of natural disasters - hurricanes, tsunamis here in Hawaii no MARS nets were activated.  I participated in the RACES and SKYWARN nets but nothing heard from MARS so I'm wondering what is their mission, justifying someone's employment at Army NETCOM?  Also there's is no credibility when the Army MARS director is a contractor and not military or a government employee.
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73 and Aloha,
de Delwyn, KH6DC

KC2QYM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #85 on: March 02, 2015, 10:42:10 AM »

AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta from AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie. Do you have the mission documents sir?  over
AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie from AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta. What mission documents do you mean?  over.
AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta from AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie. Well...the 'MISSION'!!, the reason we meet here every Monday night on this Net
AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie from AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta. Hell, I don't know about any freaken mission, we get on the net just to make sure our radios are working. Out
AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta from AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie.  OK, how about any traffic to pass?  over
AlphaAlphaAlphaninerEchoCharlie from AlphaAlphaAlpha4BravoBakerDelta. Where have you been boy? the last piece of traffic I passed was back in 1976, out.
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KC0MXX

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #86 on: March 11, 2015, 06:09:39 PM »

Lingering?  No.  Individually MARS is slowing just as is HAM and just as quickly.  Sure we have a mission, be ready.  I used MARS when I was stationed overseas back in the 80's, my mother loved it because the cost of the call was nowhere near what a regular call cost.  And as with anything worthwhile it must change with the times.  Stagnation is killing MARS faster than silent key's. 

But MARS is still there, in fact I just started up a 24x7 scanning station for the government agency I work for now.  We practice monthly, have quarterly exercises with military operators, and are always looking for bigger and better ways to get our traffic accross.  And as soon as I can get a new radio (always useful) I will be setting up a station for myself at home.  I cant buy all the stuff that I buy for my government station, but it certainly gives me ideas on what I want to buy in the future for myself.  AND I get to play with all kinds of cool stuff as a bonus. 

Ron
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KC2QYM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #87 on: March 13, 2015, 07:53:08 AM »

I would say that if the DoD really wanted to maintain a civilian MARS organization they would encourage participation through a radio provision program for MARS participants.  You don't get to keep the equipment but you can use it.  You sign an agreement in the form of a contract.  Those not interested are relegated to using their own gear.  This program will save MARS partcipants a bundle on providing dedicated radios during their participation.  Nothing like using real MilSpec equipment for the future 'MISSION'; whatever that is.  But no, those radios are going overseas to all sorts of foreign military aid programs leaving the 'important' ham radio MARS members begging.  Just what commitment does the DoD have to MARS again?
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N2OBM

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #88 on: March 14, 2015, 01:15:14 AM »

Warren...I finely found the thread you were talking about....man what a bunch of chatter.

Let me see...MSG, is that USAMP as in Military Police?
This is MSG Bronson, Spectrum Manager, US Army Signal Corps.

I really hate to pit MOS against MOS, but with fresh retirement orders in hand...what the hell.

What did you think MARS was about? What were YOUR expectations? When I went to PLDC they taught us how to research topics in FMs, TMs and ARs. When I found out about MARS early in my Signal career....SCORE!

1. Last minute tasking, no assigned frequencies...one call to State MARS Director and G2G. Just radio silence during the regular scheduled training net. I promise. With crypto in our radios....several comments about 'static'....ooops. Good training for the MARS ops! Work through it...'send all after....over' (for the poster that is an alpha sierra sierra you can kilo mike alpha, let me pull down my Viet greens...er BDUs...er DCUs...er ACUs) Did you ever serve, Sir? And I use that term loosely.   

MARS, I will not limit to Army as I have leveraged all three services in my career, is the Swiss Army knife of COMMS for COMMANDERS to press into service if they know how. That is if they are advised by someone who can think.

MARSGRAMS, EMCOMM, Weather Spotting....is any of that in the front of AR 25-6? Mission Statement? Purpose?

Old FM 22-100 'Principles'? Deploy your Unit with it's means. Use of available systems. Seek self improvement.

Let me digress and not pick MSG, although I feel he did not smell the coffee. My opinion as he has his.

Have any of you researched the Purpose and Mission Statement of MARS? It has changed a little. MARGRAMS were a 'training' tool, not the base purpose of MARS.

For the longest time I used to recite that MARS was a service (communications) to provide adjunct communications for the Commander. That is, the back up, to the back up, way down on the PACE plan...but there for the Commander to leverage and have C2.

For those advanced 'Radio Experts' out there, try downloading the NITA Redbook.
Control F> MARS, SHARES and scroll through the Footnotes.
Half of the Folks that discuss 'authoritatively' about radio topics don't even know this Publication exists. Seek self improvement...if not, and you want to run your mouth....make sure your feet are clean.

Here is how I leverage Army MARS.....TODAY.

2. Two Combatant Commands under the Stafford Act are REQUIRED to have Defense Coordination Officers that will 'process' requests from State or US Possession(s) governments before asking the Commander (NORTHCOM and PACOM) to utilize Title 10 assets (active duty; pick a service and I apologize the CG doesn't count as they are now DHS). DCO/DCEs work close with FEMA. My Unit has the DCO as an assigned 'Directorate'. Guess what is their PACE plan? MARS radios, PACTOR modems, NET Plans and two Signal Soldiers that have been trained. Guess what Spectrum Manager has frequency requests poised addressed to the NTIA and FCC if assignments are not available in the affected area? (Do not confuse this with HA/DR which is when we assist other countries; USAID)

Did you know that the Army has more watercraft than the Navy?

3. Guess who has the MARS NETPLAN information putzing around the Pacific?
Yes, I admit...waaaayyyy down in the PACE Plan....but use of available systems.

4. In the past...(ok, dating myself)...PRC-127s using the AF MARS repeater at McChord AFB to relay convoy stats to the Battalion HQs on Ft. Lewis when we went to Yakima Firing Center via I-90.

We tried to use the pay phone at the gas station, but other customers got bent that we were always on it.

'Prepper' gibberish and 45 antennas on the 'Whacker Mobile' not required. I am not trying to impress anyone. There is just so much misinformation and misconception about MARS.

If any of you want to pick up on any topic other than being a hateful Troll, please>

n2obm@hotmail.com


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W1MSG

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RE: Slow lingering death of MARS.
« Reply #89 on: March 15, 2015, 06:27:13 AM »

N2OBM .. No problems picking on me LOL and yes its USAMP's  Military Police..

I really wasn't sure what to expect from MARS, I completed all the training and all I needed to do was play NET Control a couple of times to be blessed, however the times of the NETS was not remotely possible due to work.

It seems MARS is shifting more to the EMCOMM side instead of the old Health and Welfare they use to provide back in the day. I called home several times via the MARS station at Camp Humphries Korea in 1980. In 2007 I was able to call home on prepaid minutes on my Iraqi Cell Phone, and it actually worked pretty well.

I have said before in other posts, Give it a try and see if its something you like. I tried it and didn't care for it, I also dont care for any of the EMCOMM stuff. Probably because of my LEO background and my expose to some of the Whackers I see at most of the local HAM Fests  ;D

There are even people who have posted in this Thread that are not what they say they are, just google some names and see what comes up, one is even Famous on some of the Stolen Valor sites..

Anyway, like I said no problem picking on me, MOS vs MOS is always fun as is Service vs Service or Leg vs Airborne !

73
Craig
W1MSG
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