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Author Topic: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory  (Read 24516 times)

K4BLB

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2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« on: December 25, 2013, 11:59:16 AM »

Just received new repeater directory. Wondering if anyone else noticed that "notes" with info and tones are virtually non-existent for states of MS, TN, VA, and WV. Planning on keeping last year's directory since the new one missing so much info.

Any ideas as to why/how this might have happened? (I've sent an email to pubs at ARRL, but not expecting a reply til after the holidays.)

73,
Barry
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K1CJS

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2013, 07:24:39 AM »

Could well be that the editors didn't receive any updates from those state coordinators for some time.  When that happens, the editors drop information that may be seen as unneeded by them.

With the ease of internet access being enjoyed by quite a few people these days than not, I'm surprised that the ARRL is even printing such a directory anymore.  All you really have to do is Google the state and the band you want to check on, and you can get information that is up to date--and probably more accurate than what's in the ARRL directory.  AAMOF, I haven't bought a freq. directory for going on ten years now!  (But that's just me...)
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K4BLB

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2013, 08:02:35 AM »

As long as cell towers are up, my iPhone apps work just fine. However, just trying to be prepared means hard copy isn't a bad idea.

BTW, received the following response from ARRL. No offer of refund or "we'll send you a new copy at no charge," but, it is a quick response:

"There was an error in the data that the coordinator for those states supplied for that edition of the Directory. My apologies for the inconvenience. We've begun work on the 2014-2015 edition and will take steps to make sure that does not happen again.

73 . . . Steve Ford, WB8IMY
ARRL"
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KV4BL

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2013, 05:48:13 PM »

Hi Barry!   You bring up a good point.  Like yourself, I do not like to be hidebound to computers and internet for radio operations.   They can make learning about aspects of equipment, ordering equipment, and other information, easier, but if the stuff hits the fan and you have no computer or internet operation, you are pretty much in the dark.  That defeats the "when all else fails" aspect of ham radio, IMHO.

I had looked up one Tennessee repeater that I was curious about and completely missed the problem you noted.  What I had noticed, living in SC, is that they added CTCSS tones as input/output or vice-versa such as "123.0/123.0", at least for SC.  At first, this seemed like a good thing, until I realized that if they already had any PL info at all for a given machine, they just automatically assumed that it applied to input and output.  Unfortunately, this is not the case in many instances.

Whether due to limitations of equipment in use, cost, some other reason, or just plain old sloppy engineering practices, many repeaters which require a tone on the input do not encode one on the output.  If someone takes the info in the 2013-2014 directory as accurate, they could possibly program in machines for their area or somewhere they wish to travel and never hear the machines, because the output PL's noted do not exist. 

I have long argued that they need to come up with a vetting system for volunteer reporters to keep the repeater data in the directory up-to-date and accurate.  Depending solely as they do on coordinating bodies and surveys from repeater owners (who often never reply or otherwise ignore the surveys) does not yield an accurate directory.  Many, to include myself, would be happy to check repeaters in range and in areas frequently traveled and verify things such as PL codes, on (or off) air status, and the like for the purpose of increasing directory accuracy.

73,

Ray  KV4BL
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K1CJS

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 06:03:53 AM »

Hi Barry!   You bring up a good point.  Like yourself, I do not like to be hidebound to computers and internet for radio operations....

And  just what is wrong with accessing the information and printing it out?  You don't have to be 'bound' to anything--that's what they make printers for--and you still have the latest information that way.  So a looseleaf isn't as small as the ARRL directory.  So what?  A few 8x10 sheets aren't as thick as the ARRL directory either!  All in all, they take up less room.
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KV4BL

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2013, 05:33:54 AM »


And  just what is wrong with accessing the information and printing it out?  You don't have to be 'bound' to anything--that's what they make printers for--and you still have the latest information that way.  So a looseleaf isn't as small as the ARRL directory.  So what?  A few 8x10 sheets aren't as thick as the ARRL directory either!  All in all, they take up less room.
[/quote]



Nothing is wrong with accessing and printing, especially if you happen to have a printer, which I don't.  If you happen to have all of the repeaters in all the areas you will need information on printed up, then good for you.  IF, by chance the stuff hits the fan and you find yourself wishing you had information on an area that for whatever reason, you neglected to print, then you are out of luck.

I like having a current copy of the ARRL directory, but it could definitely be made a lot more accurate and up-to-date if they would accept input from sources other than the trustees and the coordinating bodies.
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K1CJS

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2013, 06:15:56 AM »

No printer?  Well, there is always pencil and paper!  Just write down the frequencies you want.

Seriously though, once you get your local or your most used repeater frequencies programmed (or copied) there is little need for a comprehensive directory--unless you're going on a trip.

And as to accepting info from more sources, why do you think they only accept the info from the coordinating bodies?  To stop misinformation and conflicting information from getting into the works.  Their accepting information from any source would lead to chaos--and in more than just the directory!
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KV4BL

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2014, 06:40:09 AM »

Chris, if accepting information only from the coordinating bodies is supposed to reduce or stop the introduction of inaccurate information into the Directory, then it has failed miserably.  If you bothered to read my first post, you would have noticed that I said some type of vetting system should be created to help ensure that good info was being provided by volunteers who would submit it for publication.

While the directory (at least for SC) has improved with respect to elimination of the ten-plus year listings of "ego" repeaters ("I want my name and call sign in the Directory because it makes me feel important, even though I never put a repeater on that pair and never will"), there are still tons of inaccuracies with regard to the repeater's location, call sign, owner, and especially PL codes (input, output, or no input code or output code).  Vetted volunteer users and monitors could help to reduce the instances that such misinformation is published.  Yeah, something which covers as much ground as the Repeater Directory will never be 100% accurate by the time it comes off the press, but there is a lot of room for improvement which is practical and do-able.

73,

Ray  KV4BL
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K1CJS

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2014, 07:03:02 AM »

Ray, I agree with you--there IS a lot of misinformation.  But if information was accepted from everyone--or anyone--there may well be a lot more!  Repeater owners are supposed to submit their info to the coordinating body for their state--which all too many of them do NOT do.  Individuals try to submit the info, but if they're not the owners, their submissions are many times ignored because the coordinating bodies cannot check every repeater every year.

Take New England, for instance.  I believe there is supposed to be one entity that coordinates all five states--just how are they supposed to verify every single repeaters info in every state?  Responsible repeater owners do keep their info up to date, but that leaves half of the total out!

The system that is up and running can use improvement, but allowing anyone to submit/change info on repeaters is not an improvement--it's a backward step.  Sure, the system isn't perfect, but it does work--to an extent.  73 and Happy New Year.
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KV4BL

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2014, 08:27:53 AM »

True, with regard to "any and every" one submitting the info.  Again, please note that I recommend some type of vetting system so that a few people who wish to submit information for given areas can have input and update with accurate info.  They could fill in the numerous gaps in data which occur due to unresponsive repeater owners and trustees.  There are similar vetting mechanisms in place for things like VE's and OO's.  One could be developed for this purpose.

73 and Happy New Year to you also,

Ray  KV4BL
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AI8O

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2014, 12:53:58 PM »

Could well be that the editors didn't receive any updates from those state coordinators for some time.  When that happens, the editors drop information that may be seen as unneeded by them.

With the ease of internet access being enjoyed by quite a few people these days than not, I'm surprised that the ARRL is even printing such a directory anymore.  All you really have to do is Google the state and the band you want to check on, and you can get information that is up to date--and probably more accurate than what's in the ARRL directory.  AAMOF, I haven't bought a freq. directory for going on ten years now!  (But that's just me...)

Bad Idea!
SERA is the "coordinator for the South east USA".

Quote from the SERA website:

"The SouthEastern Repeater Association, Inc., does not intend to post the SERA Repeater Database on our "web site". As a non-profit organization, our livelihood depends on the support of our full and associate members, the publication of the SERA Repeater Journal, and the monetary fees we receive there from."

Show me the money!
No Pay NO PLAY!

In NC, outside of Raleigh, they are not well thought of, because of their attitudes.
Of which this is just one!

Dan
AI8O
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Semper Ubi, Sub Ubi!

K1CJS

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2014, 10:31:18 PM »

The only thing that can be said about that, Dan, is that that organization isn't the only publisher--or supplier of info--of lists of repeaters for that area.  It may be the only 'official' info provider, but that does not mean that the info isn't available elsewhere.
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K4BLB

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2014, 08:50:39 AM »

Just an update on the 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory:

Received an email offering a full refund and a 2014 calendar for my troubles. Yup, somebody should have noticed the issue before the Directory went to press, but ARRL is doing the right thing!

In the meantime, I'll stick with my iPhone app and last year's repeater directory.
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KS4VT

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2014, 05:02:42 PM »

We had a similar issue with the Florida listings a few years back. Repeaters that were mixed-mode (analog & digital capable) where dropped from the analog listings and there were some other issues as well.  It was straightened out the following year.
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KK4MRN

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RE: 2013-2014 ARRL Repeater Directory
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2014, 01:48:23 PM »

SERA is a joke.  Personally, I think it should be disbanded and a new Frequency Coordinator be created for the Southeast.   Even though I am an ARRL member and I buy their books, the Repeater Directory is one book I refuse to buy because I know it is outdated/incorrect.

See the web sites like radio reference and the web sites of your local ham radio clubs for good repeater listings.

I'm surprised that the web site for SERA is actually working.  Ha!
http://www.sera.org/

I would not say they are the "largest" - more like the "lamest".

Just my 2 cents...
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