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Author Topic: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater  (Read 93726 times)

KA2FIR

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Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« on: April 24, 2014, 01:00:19 PM »

Hi,

I've been licensed since 1979. Long enough to hear a drastic change in Amateur Radio.

I can't turn on my HTX-404 in the morning and not hear someone cursing on the 440 repeaters in the NYC area. What's even more disturbing is the repeater owners themselves using profanity like it's no big deal.

In a recent open letter from the ARRL Hudson director it mentioned the lack of enforcement by the FCC. More info was asked regarding repeater jamming which has been a longstanding problem.

I've let the director know what I'm hearing and that's profanity by licensed repeater owners and their users which I feel is a more serious issue than the jamming. Monkey hear monkey say.

If the repeater owner and his users down cleanup their act then their frequency coordination for the repeater should be pulled immediately and licenses revoked.

Repeater owners condoning profanity. Who would have ever thought it would come down to this.

Mike KA2FIR
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 01:23:57 PM by KA2FIR »
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K1CJS

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2014, 08:12:35 AM »

Complaining here simply won't do a thing to get this stopped.  If you can, take the time to make a recording of the transmissions, put together a small log of when and where those transmissions were recorded, (if possible, make the recordings on a few different dates to show that this is an ongoing problem) and then send the log and the recordings (on a CD if possible) with a cover letter with your complaint to Laura Smith at the FCC.

If you can get a couple of other hams to do the same (and indicate their involvement in the cover letter so she can look for their complaints as well) it can help expedite the matter.  She has been known to take action on things like this if they're brought directly to her attention--but she'll never even know about it unless someone steps up and complains!  Good luck and 73!
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K6ECS

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2014, 08:55:03 AM »

Sadly nothing will be done. It has been ruled that language is protected speech. Hey. we're with you but we've been down the same road and started our own repeater to get away from it. We've dealt with M. Smith and Chris Imlay of the ARRL directly on this issue.

I sincerely hope that your issue gets resolved.
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KA2FIR

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2014, 09:59:49 AM »

What do you suggest for a recording device?

I've sent emails to Laura Smith with never a reply. I marked one return receipt. I received that return receipt months later stating that my email was deleted before being read.

ยง97.113 Prohibited transmissions.

(4) Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided elsewhere in this section; communications intended to facilitate a criminal act;
messages encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning, except as otherwise provided herein; obscene or indecent words or language; or false or
deceptive messages, signals or identification.
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AA4PB

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2014, 10:51:37 AM »

The problem comes in determining what constitutes "obscene or indecent words or language". Society has come to the point where words that we once considered obscene or indecent are now used routinely and so they are no longer legally seen as obscene or indecent. Basically I think if you ever hear those words used on over the air TV or radio then it will not be seen as illegal on ham radio. I don't like it, but it seems that is what we have come to in society.

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Bob  AA4PB
Garrisonville, VA

W2NAP

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 12:42:19 PM »

Instead of bitching about it, why not just spin the VFO and NOT LISTEN if you don't like it.

1981 N6BHU vs FCC read it.
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KA2FIR

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 01:01:07 PM »

Instead of bitching about it, why not just spin the VFO and NOT LISTEN if you don't like it.

1981 N6BHU vs FCC read it.

The HT is in SCAN mode therefore, the VFO is "spinning."
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K1CJS

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 01:16:58 PM »

What do you suggest for a recording device?

I would record the conversations on a computer, using a sound file (.wav)

Quote
I've sent emails to Laura Smith with never a reply. I marked one return receipt. I received that return receipt months later stating that my email was deleted before being read.

No, it's got to go snail mail, and enclose a CD with the recorded .wav files with it.  The way e-mails can be sent for nothing, and the way that some government institutions handles the millions of e-mails received makes e-mail ineffectual for this purpose.  An envelope addressed to Ms. Smith and marked both "Amateur radio enforcement issue" and "CD of recorded violations enclosed" has a much better chance of getting where it's supposed to go than an e-mail does.  After all, you're spending a dollar or so to send something in what is an unconventional way--at least unconventional for these days.

As far as the 'freedom of speech' issue, they would probably go after the owner on the 'character' issue.  Someone who not only doesn't stop the profanity going out over their repeater, but actually adds to it themselves is not someone of good character, and stands a chance of even getting their license revoked.  
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 01:20:04 PM by K1CJS »
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W2NAP

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2014, 04:39:43 PM »

As far as the 'freedom of speech' issue, they would probably go after the owner on the 'character' issue.  Someone who not only doesn't stop the profanity going out over their repeater, but actually adds to it themselves is not someone of good character, and stands a chance of even getting their license revoked.  

WRONG.

what you consider "not good character" someone else will consider just fine.

If you don't like what is on one repeater change the freq. crying about it won't do any good. nether will wasting time sending tapes.
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K5LXP

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2014, 07:12:55 AM »

What do you suggest for a recording device?

For satellite passes I use a $15 MP3 player that has a microphone input.  Runs off of a single AAA battery and has enough memory for hours of continuous recording.  My current podcast player, a Sansa Clip can also do this.  I record swapnets on the air with it.

Also, every smart phone made for years now can do recordings.  Even my old flip phone could.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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K1CJS

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2014, 07:43:54 AM »

WRONG.

what you consider "not good character" someone else will consider just fine.

If you don't like what is on one repeater change the freq. crying about it won't do any good. nether will wasting time sending tapes.

Oh, so you would consider someone who swore and used profanity when speaking to your wife or children as someone of good character?  It's the same thing--since the airwaves are public--and someones wife and or children may be listening to them!  Ideas like the one you've just stated are why this country has sunken so morally low.
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W2NAP

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2014, 11:38:02 AM »

WRONG.

what you consider "not good character" someone else will consider just fine.

If you don't like what is on one repeater change the freq. crying about it won't do any good. nether will wasting time sending tapes.

Oh, so you would consider someone who swore and used profanity when speaking to your wife or children as someone of good character?  It's the same thing--since the airwaves are public--and someones wife and or children may be listening to them!  Ideas like the one you've just stated are why this country has sunken so morally low.

heh, again you fail to grasp the concept. you don't like it fine. simple answer DON"T F'N LISTEN TO IT. You are the kind of person that will listen to the entire Howard Stern show then bitch about everything you didn't like about it.

Times change its not 1940 anymore get with the times.

And since you want to bring children into this. what kind of parent are you if you are not watching what your kids are doing anyway? If you listen to said repeater knowing it is the way it is and you are letting kids listen to it well its your own damn fault.

I could care less what someone says on air. if I don't like it I CHANGE THE FREQ. its people like you who want to piss and moan about every little thing YOU don't like that has caused this nation to end up being one big nanny state.
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K1CJS

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2014, 04:05:28 PM »

I'm afraid that you are the one that doesn't grasp the concept--although it's a different concept.  Why do you think that the FCC has forced broadcasters to put the shows with the colorful language or the questionable parts on in the late night hours?  It's because anybody and everybody may be listening.  It's the same with the ham frequencies as with broadcasting--someone that is transmitting has no idea who may be listening, and the FCC frowns on language like that simply because you don't know who IS listening!

You may think having a 'sewer mouth' may be OK, but if you start with such language in a public place, you would be shown the door rather quickly--and possibly helped through it--by LEOs.  Ham radio frequencies--AAMOF, ALL radio frequencies--are public places too, as the FCC has reminded everyone of regularly.


BTW, I like Howard Stern and his antics--but I wouldn't let my kids listen to it when they were younger.  If you have no respect for children and with older people who may find that language offensive, the FCC obviously does since they will and do take action against such language and anyone who uses it inappropriately--that is, on the air.  

Oh, and if you knew what you were talking about at all, you would know that the repeater in question isn't anywhere near me.  Try reading the entire thread before commenting.  That way you wouldn't make yourself out to be such an asshole.  
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 04:11:36 PM by K1CJS »
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KF4CQR

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2014, 04:43:38 PM »


Oh, and if you knew what you were talking about at all, you would know that the repeater in question isn't anywhere near me.  Try reading the entire thread before commenting.  That way you wouldn't make yourself out to be such an asshole.  


Oh, my!   
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AC9FM

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RE: Repeater owners using profanity on their own repeater
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2014, 04:52:53 AM »

I guess I am fortunate to be in an area that has not had this issue.
If I run into this, I will certainly report it to the FCC with recordings, dates, times and any other supporting documentation they may require.
The FCC has stepped in and fined some HF stations for similar infractions and I would hope they will continue, since we HAMs do not always do such a good job of self policing.

Meanwhile I would handle it like I do with any who prefer to use language that I consider inappropriate when in my (and my wife and children's) presence.
I will tell them that I find it offensive and ask them to refrain.
If they choose not to, then I simply will avoid them and walk away, or in the case above I would turn it over to the FCC and avoid that frequency.
I have found that most people, at least here in the mid-west, are decent enough to respect others wishes and will refrain if asked.

"As a teenager I thought it was a sign of maturity to use profanity, as I matured I realized it only proved my immaturity."
I'm not sure where I read that line but I thought it appropriate.

Ernie
AC9FM


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