eHam

eHam Forums => Software Defined Radio => Topic started by: K5TED on November 07, 2015, 06:26:06 AM

Title: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on November 07, 2015, 06:26:06 AM
Here's what we know about this rig so far...

Little to nothing. Only the scant details outlined in the flyer. It's not even type accepted yet.

We do see a comparison to the IC7200 on the flyer. This could signal a similar price point, placing it either just above or just below the 7200. A 'premium' entry level rig, as opposed to the IC 718.

All mode 7300 vs SSB/CW/AM/RTTY 7200?

Large touchscreen plus FM vs plain display, no FM. Is FM important?

Shiny knobs, lightweight case vs rugged case, knockaround pseudo field enclosure?

The phase noise comparison is probably of little importance to the market at this point, but 7300 promises to be better than 7200. What does this mean to you?

There are a few videos out on the internet that give us an idea of how the SDR architecture is represented in the user interface. There doesn't seem to be anything on the front or rear panel that screams, "SDR". However, the real-time panafall puts this tabletop rig in a different category from any other. This is the first physical manifestation of the conceptual 'affordable' 100w 'SDR with knobs' many have described as their holy grail.

It lacks some features such as separate HF and 6m ports. It does have a USB port that is described as rig control and audio, so it is entirely possible but not probable there will be some I/Q or downconverted IF output available there to feed an external SDR application. Is it more than likely it is just for digi modes?

Is built-in RTTY decode important? RTTY memory keyer?

If the IC 7300 comes in at $1200, does the addition of FM, panafall and large color screen make it a killer? The radio Icom compared, the IC 7200, now goes for about $800. So, they really aren't comparably priced. 33% is a significant difference for a large part of the Amateur radio market, even in entry level and low end base tabletop rigs.

If the IC 7300 can match even the receive performance of a Flex 1500, it will be outperforming (according to Sherwood) currently available rigs of substantially higher price tag, albeit with no frills.

Maybe that's the key feature set of the IC 7300. No frills. Potentially great receive performance. Good ergonomics. Low price.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WE1X on November 07, 2015, 06:46:41 PM
I seem to recall the 7300's dimensions are about the same as or smaller the TS-590S. If so, I wonder how effective per detail and resolution it's bands cope will be. Awfully cramped.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on November 07, 2015, 10:52:07 PM
IC-7300 has the same size display. 4.3", as a Yaesu FTDX-1200 and FTDX-3000.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WS4E on November 08, 2015, 09:28:50 AM
I would rather keep my current radio plus IF tap into my softrock that gives me full 192khz in software, than a tiny panadaper on a tiny little screen.   

They obviously are generating IQ in the radio, its idiotic if they dont provide an IQ out.  And not 48khz, something at least 96khz or better.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on November 08, 2015, 12:59:06 PM
Idiotic? Perhaps, only to those who are looking for full computer SDR experience.  There are several radios out there that provide this.

The IC-7300 seems to be aimed at those who desire the SDR performance, but don't care to tie a PC to it.

If a radio doesn't offer 'all  the possible, imaginable, options', then is it a bad radio? OR, are there some folks who simply cannot be appeased, require unreasonable and unrealistic functionality, and will likely never adopt any new technology that costs more than a few bucks?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: SWL2002 on November 08, 2015, 04:58:02 PM
Idiotic? Perhaps, only to those who are looking for full computer SDR experience.  There are several radios out there that provide this.

The IC-7300 seems to be aimed at those who desire the SDR performance, but don't care to tie a PC to it.

If a radio doesn't offer 'all  the possible, imaginable, options', then is it a bad radio? OR, are there some folks who simply cannot be appeased, require unreasonable and unrealistic functionality, and will likely never adopt any new technology that costs more than a few bucks?

So you think an I/Q output from the 7300 is "unreasonable and unrealistic functionality"?  That is a joke.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on November 08, 2015, 06:43:49 PM
Idiotic? Perhaps, only to those who are looking for full computer SDR experience.  There are several radios out there that provide this.

The IC-7300 seems to be aimed at those who desire the SDR performance, but don't care to tie a PC to it.

If a radio doesn't offer 'all  the possible, imaginable, options', then is it a bad radio? OR, are there some folks who simply cannot be appeased, require unreasonable and unrealistic functionality, and will likely never adopt any new technology that costs more than a few bucks?

So you think an I/Q output from the 7300 is "unreasonable and unrealistic functionality"?  That is a joke.

Aside from the Alinco, which other sub-$1.5k 100w HF All Mode tabletop knobbed rig has factory I/Q output? It would be nice to have, even if only 48khz, but in a $1200 rig that is designed to be the first foray into a 'PC-less SDR', it is unlikely, and perhaps unreasonable, and unrealistic. Same for the external monitor output. Nice feature to have, but.... Aside from the Icom 7000, which other current sub $1.5k  100w HF All Mode rig has external monitor output? Not happening. Not at issue at this price point. Maybe the IC-7500...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WS4E on November 08, 2015, 07:34:08 PM
Idiotic? Perhaps, only to those who are looking for full computer SDR experience.  T

I meant it as a 'they already have the data' due to this radios design, and it would hardly cost them anything to just output it to a jack on the back and they could have added this good capability/feature for little additional cost.  

It tells me  that Icom really does not listen to their customers just like Yaesu does not listen.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: SWL2002 on November 09, 2015, 03:18:41 AM
Idiotic? Perhaps, only to those who are looking for full computer SDR experience.  T

I meant it as a 'they already have the data' due to this radios design, and it would hardly cost them anything to just output it to a jack on the back and they could have added this good capability/feature for little additional cost.  

It tells me  that Icom really does not listen to their customers just like Yaesu does not listen.


100% agree
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NO9E on November 09, 2015, 10:46:01 AM
Quote
Aside from the Alinco, which other sub-$1.5k 100w HF All Mode tabletop knobbed rig has factory I/Q output?

KX3

Ignacy
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on November 09, 2015, 11:44:11 AM
KX3 is far less than 100W
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on November 09, 2015, 05:27:54 PM
Idiotic? Perhaps, only to those who are looking for full computer SDR experience.  T

I meant it as a 'they already have the data' due to this radios design, and it would hardly cost them anything to just output it to a jack on the back and they could have added this good capability/feature for little additional cost.  

It tells me  that Icom really does not listen to their customers just like Yaesu does not listen.


100% agree

Having incorporated an integrated USB soundcard scheme in the IC-7300, it would be, seemingly, easy for Icom engineering to have made internally available the I/Q as a USB device record input to feed SDR software. However, there is no indication from the available literature to establish this one way or the other. I'm guessing no... 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on November 10, 2015, 01:21:14 PM
Its a direct sample rig, not a sound card based rig.
I hope no one would be dumb enough to bring out sound card based stuff anymore...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AB7R on November 10, 2015, 01:58:30 PM
I think he is just talking about the ability to pipe the audio via the USB line instead of a traditional line in/out;  Not a soundcard to do the IQ work as in the old SDR-1000.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on November 10, 2015, 06:17:09 PM
Its a direct sample rig, not a sound card based rig.
I hope no one would be dumb enough to bring out sound card based stuff anymore...


The point is that considering the teaser from Icom states the USB is for digital operation, making it a 'soundcard', that it would be easy to also provide the downconverted I/Q stream for demod with existing software like HDSDR, or... Maybe a Icom SDR console app. Not holding my breath on that one...
 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on November 10, 2015, 07:35:32 PM
Does Icom say sound card?
Not sure what you need to bring out the I+Q.
It says USB port for audio in and out so maybe that could include the I+Q signals.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on November 10, 2015, 07:46:45 PM
Does Icom say sound card?
Not sure what you need to bring out the I+Q.
It says USB port for audio in and out so maybe that could include the I+Q signals.

USB "audio in and out" means 'soundcard' audio in the context of this discussion. Could it include the I/Q? That would be optimum.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on November 12, 2015, 06:41:45 PM
The IC-7300 should come in at about $1400 USD, to compete with the FT-991, a similar form factor, but different feature set.

The battle will be 'All Mode HF +6m SDR' vs 'Old School Shack In A Box'   
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W5WSS on November 17, 2015, 07:41:39 AM
I noticed this OP reported the other night why he missed several contacts with his SDR system because something was interrupting it and he needed to reboot geeeze!

What a pain
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on November 17, 2015, 05:46:05 PM
I noticed this OP reported the other night why he missed several contacts with his SDR system because something was interrupting it and he needed to reboot geeeze!

What a pain

You may have the wrong OP, OM. I haven't posted anything to that effect that I know of...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on December 15, 2015, 07:05:31 PM
From the web:

News release 2015/12/7: Icom* shipping the IC-7300 within 40 days from this release date in Japanese market! (..link below)

Icom shipping the IC-7300 within 40 days from this release date in Japanese market! (news release 07/12/2015)

* For Japan domestic market, will be released in other countries at a later date.

Icom announced today, December 7th 2015, that delivery of the new IC-7300 will start from mid January 2016 for Japanese market, while for the rest of the world, date have not been defined yet.


In a japanese press release dated just a few hours ago, Icom finally published the official release date and the recommended price. The IC-7300 should be available by January 16th 2016 at a price of 139,800yen + tax, wich equates to US$ 1,134+tax or EUR 1,047+tax (expect VAT on top of that).

We asked the question of the Icom rep at the Newark Hamfest and he was also very cagey and just laughed it off so don’t really know unless as has been suggested there is a bug or possibly a manufacturing problem.

Dezember 2015 bekannt, das die Erstauslieferungen des neuen IC-7300 mitte Januar 2016 für den japanischen Markt beginnen.

In Australia the release of the ic9300 (?) caught the local ICOM office by surprize. the sales staff did not know it was coming. They do not expect to see onr till March next year. I believe they made the announcement to slow down the sales of other SDR radios from India and italy

IC-7300 press release Http://Www.Icom.Co.Jp/release/20151207/ 2015/12/07 announced the industry's first, high-speed real-time spectrum scope, was adopted RF direct sampling method most powerful compact HF transceiver IC- 7300. Name: HF + 50MHz for Amateur Radio transceiver Model: IC-7300 / M / S suggested retail price: 139,800 yen + tax Release Date: today than 40 days within a year plans to sell units: a total of 2000 units / year

139800 Japanese Yen equals 1148.6695 US Dollar

40 days within a year .... not much to go by...

Q1? Perhaps.

 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on February 12, 2016, 10:28:19 AM
No Japanese reviews yet?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WE1X on February 13, 2016, 06:42:35 AM
What's interesting about the forecasted price is the 7200 is being discontinued but not the 7410. I wonder to what extent the 7300 will erode  7410 sales.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on February 14, 2016, 03:31:42 PM
Join the yahoo 7300 group. Much more info and more accurate information.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on February 23, 2016, 04:01:36 PM
Two for sale on the internet right now.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK4YDR on February 23, 2016, 09:37:57 PM
Two for sale on the internet right now.

No links?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on February 24, 2016, 03:19:51 AM
try eBay - it's a Japanese model so JA freq restrictions won't work so well in USA
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK4YDR on February 24, 2016, 10:56:22 AM
I got play with one, off air, but powered on, at the Hamcation in Orlando two weeks ago. While the size and the shape is nice, I feel like it is super vanilla overall. It has basic menus, basic features, and the whilst the band scope is nice I feel, thus far, with limited impression that the radio is just an Icom equivalent to an FT-991 with a fast band scope. I think the biggest thing that absolutely killed this radio for me in the preliminary is the lack of an IF output connector. It should have been the very first feature a radio like this has. However, this doesn't discount the fact that there maybe some USB software or functionality since it has a USB port that allows IF output to PC via USB. A software defined radio with knobs looks very good indeed but I would truly loved to have been able to fully integrate it with my PC, shove the radio behind my amplifier out of site somewhere and used my PC to have full control over everything, ala Flex radio style without the large price tag.

Only time will tell.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on February 24, 2016, 05:43:35 PM
The latest info I have on this radio, is that if it is used with the USB connection to the PC, and that PC is running ICOM's RS-BA1 software, the spectrum scope, and a control panel can be displayed on the monitor. Full control, full audio functions thru the PC sound card. It's also remote able over IP.
There is a small amount of latency between what displays on the radio screen, and the same signal showing on the PC monitor.
All this we have learned by watching a Japanese ham posted on his YouTube Vblog about the 7300.
Sorry, I don't recall the address. Just do a search.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on February 24, 2016, 06:10:29 PM
I got play with one, off air, but powered on, at the Hamcation in Orlando two weeks ago. While the size and the shape is nice, I feel like it is super vanilla overall. It has basic menus, basic features, and the whilst the band scope is nice I feel, thus far, with limited impression that the radio is just an Icom equivalent to an FT-991 with a fast band scope. I think the biggest thing that absolutely killed this radio for me in the preliminary is the lack of an IF output connector. It should have been the very first feature a radio like this has. However, this doesn't discount the fact that there maybe some USB software or functionality since it has a USB port that allows IF output to PC via USB. A software defined radio with knobs looks very good indeed but I would truly loved to have been able to fully integrate it with my PC, shove the radio behind my amplifier out of site somewhere and used my PC to have full control over everything, ala Flex radio style without the large price tag.

Only time will tell.

Which begs the question,. why can't Flex or Anan offer a DDC/DUC 100w no control panel rig at the same price point? Makes you wonder... The functionality of the IC-7300 could easily be offered in a 'black box' rig at a sub-$1k price point. Why did Icom choose to skip that iteration?

Apparently none of these manufacturers are asking hams what they want.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NC4AB on February 24, 2016, 06:13:12 PM
The IC-7300 received FCC approval today, now to figure out the street price.

73

NC4AB
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK4YDR on February 26, 2016, 09:29:00 AM
The latest info I have on this radio, is that if it is used with the USB connection to the PC, and that PC is running ICOM's RS-BA1 software, the spectrum scope, and a control panel can be displayed on the monitor. Full control, full audio functions thru the PC sound card. It's also remote able over IP.
There is a small amount of latency between what displays on the radio screen, and the same signal showing on the PC monitor.
All this we have learned by watching a Japanese ham posted on his YouTube Vblog about the 7300.
Sorry, I don't recall the address. Just do a search.

If this is true then it will be a good start for the predicted price point. The latency between the screen and the PC will be irrelevant if you blank out or do not display the radio to your view. Then you will not notice any latency issues.

Are there any screenshots available out there of the Icom software? I have never seen it in action before. It might already be out for other things but I am not aware of it.

Thanks for these updates
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on March 01, 2016, 05:50:02 PM
"Sorry, I don't recall the address. Just do a search. "

Haven't been able to find anything showing the RS-BA1 on the IC-7300. Would be interesting to see. Too bad we don't have a link to the alleged video...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AC7CW on March 02, 2016, 04:31:59 PM
$1499... http://qrznow.com/icom-ic-7300-launch-price-usa/ [nice video]

From what I've learned it direct samples then downconverts in firmware to ~32khz IF and uses ICOM's existing DSP hardware/firmware from previous radios. It looks like the screen operations are about as complex as my Android phone actually...

Cheers!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK4YDR on March 02, 2016, 04:45:37 PM
$1499... http://qrznow.com/icom-ic-7300-launch-price-usa/ [nice video]

From what I've learned it direct samples then downconverts in firmware to ~32khz IF and uses ICOM's existing DSP hardware/firmware from previous radios. It looks like the screen operations are about as complex as my Android phone actually...

Cheers!

Yeah the more information that is released about this radio the less impressed I am with it. I am sure ICOM will sell quite a few of these but thus far I think it was rushed to the production floor... You taking notes Yaesu?? I hope so! 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WS4E on March 04, 2016, 07:52:41 AM
$1499... http://qrznow.com/icom-ic-7300-launch-price-usa/ [nice video]

From what I've learned it direct samples then downconverts in firmware to ~32khz IF and uses ICOM's existing DSP hardware/firmware from previous radios. It looks like the screen operations are about as complex as my Android phone actually...

Cheers!

That is not really different than any other modern radio.   Seems like just has a faster processor for the screen display.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AA4PB on March 04, 2016, 09:49:12 AM
$1499... http://qrznow.com/icom-ic-7300-launch-price-usa/ [nice video]

From what I've learned it direct samples then downconverts in firmware to ~32khz IF and uses ICOM's existing DSP hardware/firmware from previous radios. It looks like the screen operations are about as complex as my Android phone actually...

Cheers!

From the spec sheet that I downloaded, you are not correct. The 7300 uses a direct sampling system where the A/D converter operates at the operating frequency. It's antenna - bandpass filter - A/D converter. Everything from there on is digital.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6JH on March 04, 2016, 12:34:39 PM
$1499... http://qrznow.com/icom-ic-7300-launch-price-usa/ [nice video]

From what I've learned it direct samples then downconverts in firmware to ~32khz IF and uses ICOM's existing DSP hardware/firmware from previous radios. It looks like the screen operations are about as complex as my Android phone actually...

Cheers!

From the spec sheet that I downloaded, you are not correct. The 7300 uses a direct sampling system where the A/D converter operates at the operating frequency. It's antenna - bandpass filter - A/D converter. Everything from there on is digital.



My interpretation is you are both right. The front end is straight into an ADC, then an FPGA digitally downconverts to an IF frequency in a manner that allows them to plug the resulting data stream into their existing DSP code.

This isn't quite the dream rig architecture people want, but it makes for a conservative first step into a full SDR for ICOM. Doesn't allow for large and multiple "slices" ala Flexradio.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZENKI on March 04, 2016, 02:57:17 PM
Then we find Icom breaks the basic SDR direct sampling design.

Un-calibrated  waterfall and S-meter and a transmitter that has all the design failures of the legacy transmitters. ALC  overshoot, a PA with power spikes and poor IMD. Then we have to see if they have a noise transmitter than generates wide band noise and other spurious products. I wont be holding my breath when it comes to a new Icom radio model.

So the supposed advantages of a new technology platform are locked away and dripped out  for their profit model. The end results is products that are crap radios with crippled features.

At least if you buy  a current model Flexradio or an Anan radio you getting the full potential of the technology at a bargain price. The Japanese  manufacturers just dont want to get it or they too arrogant to listen. Hams want better radios not crippled radios with design flaws. Besides why should we be fund their R&D market testing program when the market has already decided what  capabilities the technology can  deliver. Icom wants to take us backwards with their vision, yet the future  is already available. And really if the radio is just another glorified IC718 with no performance improvements in transmitter and receiver performance who cares?

Icom needs to get into the business of delivering state of the art products not crippled products designed to milk hams over decades with incremental and little improvements.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on March 04, 2016, 03:11:17 PM
Why don't you just tell us what you REALLY think....
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6JH on March 04, 2016, 05:51:07 PM
I just figure this "baby" step allows Icom to use their existing DSP code, existing RS-BA1 remote software, etc, with minimal changes - without as much of a risk as a full featured transceiver.

Do you want this now, or the fancy model 2 years from now after all the new code is debugged? Hopefully they're working on the full size, full featured rig now.

The 7300 doesn't look too bad for a rig that is small enough to take field day portable, yet reasonable featured enough to use at home - at the TS-590SG price point. I hope it lives up to the initial hype.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AC7CW on March 05, 2016, 09:04:24 AM
$1499... http://qrznow.com/icom-ic-7300-launch-price-usa/ [nice video]

From what I've learned it direct samples then downconverts in firmware to ~32khz IF and uses ICOM's existing DSP hardware/firmware from previous radios. It looks like the screen operations are about as complex as my Android phone actually...

Cheers!

From the spec sheet that I downloaded, you are not correct. The 7300 uses a direct sampling system where the A/D converter operates at the operating frequency. It's antenna - bandpass filter - A/D converter. Everything from there on is digital.


jeez, whatever... I think I said it direct samples, that denotates "at the operating frequency". I described "everything from there on is digital" as being ICOM's existing DSP stuff. Appliance ops can have this thing, more power to 'em.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AC7CW on March 08, 2016, 08:19:10 AM
I was initially put off by the seemingly kludgy design of this radio but I thought about it some more and am thinking that probably it will be quite good. Replacing the usual analog converter and interim IF's with direct sampling and firmware downconversion presents no problems at all, probably that is the main basic advantage to direct sampling/DSP, no? The interface seems to be as simple to operate as a tablet and that is a good thing. The DSP at the last [and only] IF is tried and true tech... I'm starting to feel that this radio could be a great one. People are pre-ordering already, we'll find out soon enough.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N5PG on March 10, 2016, 05:58:45 PM
Then we find Icom breaks the basic SDR direct sampling design.

Un-calibrated  waterfall and S-meter and a transmitter that has all the design failures of the legacy transmitters. ALC  overshoot, a PA with power spikes and poor IMD. Then we have to see if they have a noise transmitter than generates wide band noise and other spurious products. I wont be holding my breath when it comes to a new Icom radio model.

So the supposed advantages of a new technology platform are locked away and dripped out  for their profit model. The end results is products that are crap radios with crippled features.

At least if you buy  a current model Flexradio or an Anan radio you getting the full potential of the technology at a bargain price. The Japanese  manufacturers just dont want to get it or they too arrogant to listen. Hams want better radios not crippled radios with design flaws. Besides why should we be fund their R&D market testing program when the market has already decided what  capabilities the technology can  deliver. Icom wants to take us backwards with their vision, yet the future  is already available. And really if the radio is just another glorified IC718 with no performance improvements in transmitter and receiver performance who cares?

Icom needs to get into the business of delivering state of the art products not crippled products designed to milk hams over decades with incremental and little improvements.



Have you actually tested one of these ?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: CS7AJS on March 11, 2016, 06:17:37 AM
The question is: are there proof that you have full computer control? ADC signal to and from computer?  If so, then in a worst case scenario it's a cheap Flex 6K with maestro for 1\3 price. Else, it depends on what it can do.
We know it doesn't have advanced features that cna be found in much more expensive radios, but for the price... It's a far better radio than the competition, even if it doesn't have ADC to\from computer :)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AC7CW on March 11, 2016, 08:51:33 AM
The question is: are there proof that you have full computer control? ADC signal to and from computer?  If so, then in a worst case scenario it's a cheap Flex 6K with maestro for 1\3 price. Else, it depends on what it can do.
We know it doesn't have advanced features that cna be found in much more expensive radios, but for the price... It's a far better radio than the competition, even if it doesn't have ADC to\from computer :)

Almost certainly we will be able to tap the output of the ADC and post process it with some inexpensive hardware and open source software, no?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6JH on March 11, 2016, 03:25:53 PM
The question is: are there proof that you have full computer control? ADC signal to and from computer?  If so, then in a worst case scenario it's a cheap Flex 6K with maestro for 1\3 price. Else, it depends on what it can do.
We know it doesn't have advanced features that cna be found in much more expensive radios, but for the price... It's a far better radio than the competition, even if it doesn't have ADC to\from computer :)

Almost certainly we will be able to tap the output of the ADC and post process it with some inexpensive hardware and open source software, no?

I think that remains to be seen.

ICOM has on-rig dsp. Their manual says you can send RX and TX audio to/from a PC via the USB, for digi modes ala a sound card (i.e. with audio bandwidth).

The have their own RS-BA1 PC remote software which can display the waterfall. But does it spit out the full 1MHz waterfall signal bandwidth being applied to the waterfall, allowing for outboard filtering? Or does it just spit out the processed waterfall display info, which is a function they claim?

I tend to think the 7300 will be somewhat feature neutered in order to allow for a more expensive full featured SDR rig in the future.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZENKI on March 11, 2016, 04:00:28 PM
A crippling  or chopping off at the knees  of what this SDR technology can deliver today, which will  be dripped out in 5 years time as revolutionary.

Icoms first SDR is a disappointment and an opportunity squandered. They should have done the job properly and not released the design so soon. This is really pandering to hams who want something new and thats cheap rather than offering something that is true look into the future of SDR radios with improved specifications.

This radio will always be compared with  the blackbox computer interface SDR's for performance and features. In this regard the Icom IC7300 will always considered a toy because it does not deliver on the true potential of SDR to the masses in a knobbed SDR form factor.

Considering the costs of the parts and whats inside the radio a 1000 dollar price point would be more appropriate for the IC7300 its just so basic. Its really a SDR clone of a basic
radio like the IC718 with added pan adapter and  all its inherited design faults. There is no attempt to demonstrate or to show  how better SDR radios can be and  what the future proofing that this technology can offer. Its also really  a poor exploitation of the power of the  hardware in the IC7300's  design. Bragging about low phase noise with  no meaningful receiver and transmitter data is typical of the Japanese Manufacturers who want to sell hams radios that are pigs with  lipstick on them.

You dont really dont get  direct sampling SDR if you cant deliver a calibrated S-meter on a direct sampling receiver in this day and age. Then lets look at the noise blanker  that wont even offer the performance of  other SDR radios. It will be a button that is pushed and it will do very little. DSP based noise blankers as delivered by other SDR radio makers are very effective because technology allows such good performance to be delivered. We wont get this level of performance in the Icoms implementation of DSP noise blanking

Icom are  using hams as beta testers and as a R&D test platform rather wanting to deliver the best that technology can offer. The real point is that a radio like the IC7300  should have offered better performance and features than a a radio like the IC7850 because thats what the technology is capable of delivering even in the size and price that Icom is offering

Icom will drip feed us the SDR platform and I dont expect much improvement in transmitter and receiver performance.

IC7300
IC7301
IC7310
IC7320

 And the same old broken performance with no real advancement. I wont be holding my breath expecting anything worthwhile like pre-distortion or even something as basic as a calibrated S-meter. Nor would I even expect a SDR radio that  has the best receiver performance and transmitter performance, something that even the cheapest direct sampling transceiver can deliver and is being delivered today.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N9DG on March 11, 2016, 04:24:25 PM

I think that remains to be seen.

ICOM has on-rig dsp. Their manual says you can send RX and TX audio to/from a PC via the USB, for digi modes ala a sound card (i.e. with audio bandwidth).

The have their own RS-BA1 PC remote software which can display the waterfall. But does it spit out the full 1MHz waterfall signal bandwidth being applied to the waterfall, allowing for outboard filtering? Or does it just spit out the processed waterfall display info, which is a function they claim?

I tend to think the 7300 will be somewhat feature neutered in order to allow for a more expensive full featured SDR rig in the future.

All indications are that there will only be simple single audio signal I/O over the USB. Just like the models with audio on the USB port that proceeded it. They are reusing much of the "proven" DSP IF code from earlier models after all. So no I/Q audio signals to feed things that can use I/Q data streams. So that will preclude adding an external PC based SDR program to get a more detailed panadapter / waterfall. A feature that many people have come to expect that an "SDR" should be capable of.

The RS-BA1 implementation looks to be simply sending the "video" data from the front panel display over the USB port to the RS-BA1 program. And that better be at the level of detail and display quality that you want. Because unlike the analog IF radio models that preceded it, there is no analog IF around 70MHz to tap into to add an external device like a cheap dongle or some other SDR device that can digitize analog IF signals. So it is kind of ironic that the ability, or means to improve the spectrum display of the IC-7300 by using external hardware is actually less that the previous models. Perhaps the only option is to tap into the RF signal path prior to the A to D.

No doubt that there will be higher up models to follow, perhaps even announced at this coming Dayton or Tokyo in early Fall. And I had to guess the next DDC model announced will be in the IC-7600 bracket since that model is long in the tooth.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NEWESTHAM on March 11, 2016, 05:41:12 PM

This video is 4 hrs old :) German speaker but shows a little bit more in terms of it working alongside a computer......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbGtlNbJ2KQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on March 11, 2016, 07:43:30 PM
"So that will preclude adding an external PC based SDR program to get a more detailed panadapter / waterfall." is true, if 'detailed' is assumed to denote 'wideband'.

Taking the 455>12kHz IF into a program like HDSDR, Rocky, SDRadio, DReaM, SoDira, etc. is perfectly usable. It has been for years. In fact, for example, for the esoteric MW enthusiast, SoDira is able to decode CQUAM AM Stereo using only an IF tap and 12kHz downconverter (essentially what is provided by the 7300). All modes. All filtering. All the time.

SDR demod, filters, and rig control.. All there. Yes, it is only 12kHz bandwidth, but there is no 'rule' stating that SDR panadaptors having to cover several MHz is the standard. Some hams possibly only are interested in what is going on a few kHz either side, not into the next band segment. Some. Not all.

Here's a comparison between a Icom PCR-100 with 12kHz IF tap and a Flex 3000 I/Q output, split with one receiver on the Left and one on the Right, on a very marginal AM signal. Same antenna. Both decoded with HDSDR. You figure out which is which.

http://k5ted.net/mp3/radioprogreso1620TOHLRA.mp3

 

 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6JH on March 13, 2016, 01:53:27 AM

Taking the 455>12kHz IF into a program like HDSDR, Rocky, SDRadio, DReaM, SoDira, etc. is perfectly usable.
 


??? What 455>12KHz IF? Did I miss a feature?

I thought the only advertised output available is the demodulated audio sound card compatible USB connection. No I/Q available for HDSDR....

Although ICOM could surprise us and give us I/Q too. Not mentioned in the basic user manual, but maybe there will be a technical supplement manual we haven't seen yet.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: 9V1YC on March 13, 2016, 06:35:40 AM
With all the misleading information I am reading here I thought it was time to chime in with some real-world, actual field reporting on the 7300.

I picked up one of these cute 7300's in Tokyo in mid-January (¥120,000, approx US$980 at the time).  I just got through using it on a 10-day DXpedition in Timor-Leste as 4W/N1YC. This was a true 'blind-date'.  I wouldn't normally take an untested, 1st production, low-serial number rig on a DXpedition in a less than ideal environment, but I figured here was my chance to put a brand new radio through the paces.  As a seasoned user of many radios (SDR's included) and 250,000 QSO's in the log from my home QTH of 9V1YC,  I feel I'm pretty well qualified to give this a try.  (Certainly more than most of the complainers I am reading on this forum, some of whom haven't even touched a 7300 yet).

NOTE:  The 7300 is also not a contest-grade radio with sub-receivers, external RX antenna inputs and other useful features, so its not fair to measure it against a K3 or other high-end radio. This mini-review is just letting you know how Icom's new SDR performed in a tough DXpedition environment, and how it felt to me.

The setup was as follows:  We had two stations, side-by-side, running full tilt for 10 days. The second station was a K2, and we also had another K2 as a backup rig just in case the 7300 turned out to be a disaster.  Each station had a Tokyo Hy-Power HL-550fx running 500W and a set of Dunestar bandpass filters. Both stations were using Hustler 6BTV's with 60 radials each.   We were at a nice location facing North - about 50m from the high tide mark, and 30m up on a hillside.   (We've used this spot on two previous trips, and clocked up about 35,000 QSOs on 2014 and 2015).

Our shack location was on a covered outdoor deck facing the sea, in a high-humidity, high-dust, high electrical noise area with sea-spray, wind and rain thrown in for good measure.  Just about as tough as it gets.  The previous trips used a K2 and a TS-590, but this time we swapped out the TS-590 for the 7300, and brought an extra K2 as both a backup (and an a A-B comparison).  We knew the K2 could take this nasty environment, but we had no idea how the 7300 would perform.

The 7300 was an immense pleasure to operate.  I mean that in every way. I was expecting the worst but this little radio was a sheer joy to operate.  The receiver was simply beautiful - especially to my ears with are normally used to the sound of a K3, IC-7600 or TS-590 in a contest.  Pileups were smooth and easy to run at high rate.  The 7300 definitely has amazing ears.  On the few times I swapped it out for the K2 as a comparison I noticed that the 7300 was more sensitive than the K2, but nothing that was heard on one radio couldn't be copied on the other. In fact, I felt the 7300 had the edge at times - especially on 10/12 and 15m.  For the record, I do love the my old analog K2, and for extended periods of non-stop pileup shoveling I feel the K2 is probably gentler on the ears.  (Any K2 owner will know what I am talking about).

We did have some inter-station interference from time to time (as we always do on these trips). The first thing we did when that happened was swap out the 7300 to the backup K2, just to make sure it wasn't the 7300 which was dirty.  No major difference was noted on any band, so we concluded the 7300's TX was not the culprit.

The filters were as good or better as anything I've used on other high-end Icoms, and the settings are easy to manage through the touch-screen menus. Any 7600/7700/7800 user will have no trouble using this rig out of the box.  No manual required.  The touch screen was something new to me, but after a while I found myself really enjoying it compared to a regular radio. Especially the Elecraft push-and hold kind of situation which I hate.  

The scope is not something I really use when behind a pileup, but I did play with it every now and then when the rate dropped and I was bored.  Its extremely sharp, but that's to be expected from an SDR.

The real stand-out feature of the 7300 is the noise blanker.  Being in a poor, 3rd-world country with badly maintained vehicles and terrible power distribution means there was noise all over the place.  Really bad, S9 crap almost all the time.  The 7300's noise blanker cut through just about everything that was thrown at it, and I was able to clock over 8000 QSO's in 9 days.  I even managed to run the last few hours of the ARRL DX contest without any problems (which is no small feat from 9000 miles away and a crummy Hustler 6BTV).    I have never heard a noise blanker this good, and on that point it left the K2 in the dust. Literally.  (yes, I know the K2 has a pathetic noise blanker.....)

BTW - I noticed none of the complaints "ZENKI" is talking about on this forum, so perhaps his 7300 is from a different batch?  Not sure where he got his test rig from.  Anyway, for the record I noticed no PA power spikes, no spurs, no ALC overshoots, no IMD problems, and the S-meter was bang on target when compared to my TS-590, IC-7600 and two different K2s back here at home.

The rig was run at 90W all the time, and the PA temperature reading never really moved upward the entire trip.  The heat sink felt cool whenever I touched it. The 7300 was also coated in dust and sea-spray almost non-stop, and had to be wiped down almost every hour.  At times the touch-screen was so coated with crud that I could write my initials on it.   None of these external annoyances interfered with the rig's operation, and it never missed a beat.

Again, this review is not meant to compare the 7300 against the K2 since the two are entirely different radios, and that's an apples and oranges type of situation. This review was also not meant to compare it against a K3, 7600, 590 or any other rig.   This was simply to see how Icom's new SDR would perform under pressure, and how it felt to my own ears.  (Everyone has their favorite radio, and everyone has their own "my rig is better than your rig" story, so lets leave that for another thread, ok?).

There are lots more things I can say here that are technical (like PC interfacing) but I will answer those questions if anyone has them.

Bottom line:  I made a ton of QSO's, had a great time, and simply love this radio. Its a real gem.

Feel free to ask me any questions.  Happy to reply (with what I know so far....).

73  James 9V1YC

p.s. Yes, we even made some QSO's on 6m too.  About 43 JA's.


Then we find Icom breaks the basic SDR direct sampling design.

Un-calibrated  waterfall and S-meter and a transmitter that has all the design failures of the legacy transmitters. ALC  overshoot, a PA with power spikes and poor IMD. Then we have to see if they have a noise transmitter than generates wide band noise and other spurious products. I wont be holding my breath when it comes to a new Icom radio model.


Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N5PG on March 13, 2016, 08:19:46 AM
A breath of fresh air ;D
Thanks James and tnx for the 4W Q and fast LOTW upload,
73, Paul
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on March 13, 2016, 08:57:01 AM

Taking the 455>12kHz IF into a program like HDSDR, Rocky, SDRadio, DReaM, SoDira, etc. is perfectly usable.
 


??? What 455>12KHz IF? Did I miss a feature?

I thought the only advertised output available is the demodulated audio sound card compatible USB connection. No I/Q available for HDSDR....

Although ICOM could surprise us and give us I/Q too. Not mentioned in the basic user manual, but maybe there will be a technical supplement manual we haven't seen yet.

From page 12-7 of the IC-7300 English manual:

"ACC/USB Output Select (Default: AF) Selects the signal output from [ACC] and [USB]. • AF: AF signal is output. • IF:  A 12 kHz IF signal is output.  You can listen to the Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM) broadcast with the application software receiver that is installed into your PC"


The 12kHz IF described there seems to be analogous to the output from a 455kHz to 12kHz converter as far as HDSDR, DReaM, Sodira, etc. go. Doesn't mean it is necessarily derived from a 455kHz IF stage. It does seem to indicate that while it isn't analog 'sound card' based, it really sort of is just using the radio USB port doing the same thing, that is, providing a 12kHz baseband signal to a SDR receiver application running on the PC.

" the application software receiver that is installed into your PC" leaves it up in the air as to whether the Icom control software will have an actual SDR application included, or if they are referring to the aforementioned freeware apps.

Note: Alinco included a piece of third party freeware, "KG-TRX SDR", a 12kHz SDR receiver, with their DX-SR9 transceiver, taking the audio from the "I/Q" port into a PC sound card.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WA2OLZ on March 13, 2016, 01:36:33 PM
Thanks, James. It is great to hear how well the 7300 worked for you.

Side note: don't feed the trolls... it just makes them fat and loud  :D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on March 13, 2016, 01:59:25 PM
thanks for the review James!  Two questions if you have the time:

1.  What do you mean by "Its extremely sharp, but that's to be expected from an SDR" ???

2.  How smooth is the headphone audio during T/R transitions in cw?  Is it smooth like the K3 (swish-swish) or is it a bit harder?  Any audible T/R pops, etc?  Any latency in the sidetone?

73, Barry N1EU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7FD on March 13, 2016, 02:51:23 PM
HRO Portland is hopeful for delivery by the end of this month. Twenty are coming and as of yesterday I believe he said 14 are spoken for, including mine  ;D

I spent all day reading the 172 page FULL IC-7300 online manual. Seems well written but of course it will make more sense when the radio is in front of me.

I am wondering whether the built-in keyer is iambic...and, if so, mode A, B, or both.

Also, in full break-in, are there any relays clattering?

73 John K7FD
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: YO9IRF on March 14, 2016, 12:46:55 AM
Took the IC-7300 for a spin this weekend as well, and wrote an article about it. Includes lots of info:

http://yo9irf.blogspot.com/2016/03/icom-ic-7300-review.html

I totally agree with 9V1YC, it's a pleasure to operate, the interface is very good and performance is excellent.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: CS7AJS on March 14, 2016, 04:33:20 AM
James(9V1YC), would you please be so kind and tell us if one can connect and use the IC7300 with an existing SDR sfotware like HDSDR. SDR#, etc? Maybe if one needs CAT control on one software and SDR "features" on another. 
Can there be Tx audio from computer to radio?

Thank you so much for the info :)

73 de CR7AJS - Sergio Rasteiro
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: 9V1YC on March 14, 2016, 05:16:12 AM
thanks for the review James!  Two questions if you have the time:

1.  What do you mean by "Its extremely sharp, but that's to be expected from an SDR" ???

2.  How smooth is the headphone audio during T/R transitions in cw?  Is it smooth like the K3 (swish-swish) or is it a bit harder?  Any audible T/R pops, etc?  Any latency in the sidetone?

73, Barry N1EU

Hi Barry,

1.  The waterfall display is sharp and signals are (visually) well defined on screen.   Very different from an analog rig with a built-in scope/waterfall display (like my v2.0 7600) which is much fuzzier and hard to use. 

2.  I noticed no T/R pops of any kind, and the transitions are smooth to my ears.  To be honest I didn't even think about it. There's no way I would have logged that many QSO's if it had been hard or "poppy". 

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on March 14, 2016, 06:12:35 AM
Thanks James!  Sounds like a really great little radio.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: YO9IRF on March 14, 2016, 07:36:39 AM
James(9V1YC), would you please be so kind and tell us if one can connect and use the IC7300 with an existing SDR sfotware like HDSDR. SDR#, etc? Maybe if one needs CAT control on one software and SDR "features" on another. 
Can there be Tx audio from computer to radio?

Thank you so much for the info :)

73 de CR7AJS - Sergio Rasteiro

All processing in done inside the radio and there's no need for an external SDR software. If you want to see the spectrum on a computer screen, you can use the Icom RS-BA1 software for that (as well as for CAT, remote control etc). The IC-7300 also includes audio interface for digital modes or anything else you might think of. All of this is done via just one USB port, no need for extra cables.

There are more details in the link I posted just before your post on the previous page. (http://www.qrpblog.com/2016/03/icom-ic-7300-review.html)

Razvan YO9IRF/M0HZH.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on March 14, 2016, 07:00:51 PM
James(9V1YC), would you please be so kind and tell us if one can connect and use the IC7300 with an existing SDR sfotware like HDSDR. SDR#, etc? Maybe if one needs CAT control on one software and SDR "features" on another. 
Can there be Tx audio from computer to radio?

Thank you so much for the info :)

73 de CR7AJS - Sergio Rasteiro

waiting for James to test, but can say that the 12kHz IF out should allow you to use HDSDR on receive.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N5PG on March 14, 2016, 08:52:40 PM
James(9V1YC), would you please be so kind and tell us if one can connect and use the IC7300 with an existing SDR sfotware like HDSDR. SDR#, etc? Maybe if one needs CAT control on one software and SDR "features" on another.  
Can there be Tx audio from computer to radio?

Thank you so much for the info :)

73 de CR7AJS - Sergio Rasteiro

All processing in done inside the radio and there's no need for an external SDR software. If you want to see the spectrum on a computer screen, you can use the Icom RS-BA1 software for that (as well as for CAT, remote control etc). The IC-7300 also includes audio interface for digital modes or anything else you might think of. All of this is done via just one USB port, no need for extra cables.

There are more details in the link I posted just before your post on the previous page. (http://yo9irf.blogspot.com/2016/03/icom-ic-7300-review.html)

Razvan YO9IRF/M0HZH.

Thanks for your blog link.

If you use RS-BA1 siftware is it a virtual front panel or can you display the spectrum scope by itself ?

P.S. Brochure implies you can display spec scope only:  http://www.icomamerica.com/en/downloads/DownloadDocument.aspx?Document=740 (http://www.icomamerica.com/en/downloads/DownloadDocument.aspx?Document=740)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: YO9IRF on March 16, 2016, 03:15:08 PM
Icom RS-BA1 has one window for controls and another one for spectrum display (which works only on a few models).


(http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/rsba1/ProductHeader.jpg)

(http://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/amateur/hf/rsba1/spectrum-scope.jpg)

Razvan.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on March 17, 2016, 06:23:44 PM
Thanks to the reviewers!  Very interesting.  Does the display show VFO-A and VFO-B read outs on screen at the same time or do you toggle back and forth?

73  W9OY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZS1DFR on March 20, 2016, 06:05:50 AM
Hi all, I've been watching the thread and seen some of the disparaging remarks. I'm sure we realise this isn't the absolute top-of-the-line rig, but for the price, it's going to take a lot of beating! The question about an IQ output that can be used usefully remains to be resolved  ???

What I can't find detail of in either of the two manuals, nor on any of the blogs and reviews (even Ray Novak on Hamnation), is whether you have any say over which antenna tuner you use to tune the attached antenna? An unbalanced line can clearly be tuned by the onboard ATU, but suppose you use a long wire or a whip and need to attach an AH-4 to tune it. Can you leave the AH-4 attached while you tune via the onboard ATU? I see no toggle arrangement to choose the ATU you want to use.....

Anybody got a decent answer for that?
Thanks,
Dave ZS1DFR
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WA2OLZ on March 20, 2016, 06:38:13 AM
I believe the AH-4 is controlled by the IC-7300 via the control cable port on back of the rig.  There shouldn't be a need to use the internal tuner if the AH-4 is in play

From the IC-7300 manual:
Using the AH-4 or AH-740
1. Turn ON the transceiver.
••“TUNE” is displayed.
L Each time you push TUNER , “TUNE” is displayed
or goes out, and the AH-4 or AH-740 is turned ON or
OFF (bypassed).
2. Hold down TUNER for 1 second to start manual
tuning.
•• The tuner reduces the SWR to less than 1.5:1 after
2~3 seconds of tuning.
L While tuning, a side tone is heard and “TUNE” blinks
red.
L If the tuner cannot reduce the SWR to less than 1.5:1
after 20 seconds of tuning, “TUNE” goes out.
3. After tuning, “TUNE” is displayed.
L When the long wire antenna cannot be tuned, “TUNE”
goes out. In that case, the AH-4 is bypassed and the
wire is directly connected.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N5PG on March 30, 2016, 01:40:02 PM
Anyone got their hands on one yet?

HRO says big shipment arriving tomorrow.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AC9LM on March 31, 2016, 08:57:47 AM
I just got mine!! Not going to have chance to hook it up till later today..
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AC9LM on April 01, 2016, 08:49:27 AM
Well I got it hooked up yesterday to my OCD... It is really fun to use, and quite well thought out!! Made some contacts,
got excellent audio reports with the mike gain at 60% and the COMP midway. The spectra scope works very well, and after getting the hang of using the touch screen to select a signal, I was getting very close the first hit, with minimal retuning required. Everything is usually 1 or 2 touches away,,

My "other" radio, is an ANAN-10e (I also have a 7100).. I have not directly compared them yet, but these radios are so good on the front ends, the actual comparison is usually the noise reduction, and the ability to understand what is being said (talking SSB). The sound quality from the built in speaker was very good, better than the 7100, I was able to understand SSB slightly better that the 7100. The RF qualities of these radios are very good... (I did not do detailed adjacent channel, or strong just out of band signals in CW yet, where the IP3 and filters become important).. with the RF sections being as good as they are, the thing that really separates radios (for me) when using SSB mode, is the ability of the noise reduction processing to create a more readable signal, when receiving week SSB signals. A good audio chain, and noise reduction can give at least a 3db "boost" in apparent intelligibility. With that said, the gold reference in audio quality for me, is the ANAN series, Power SDR MRX PS and the NR2 setting.... this is the best noise reduction processing I have heard. For the 3 radios that I have experience with, it usually comes down to the audio processing! (for my use cases... mostly SSB)..

It seems that the NR on the 7300, is better than the 7100, this is subjective.. and may be due to the amplifier and speaker, but thats my experience so far. I have not directly compared the 7300 to the ANAN - Power SDR system yet.

The management of the incoming RF:  Attenuator, PRE1 and PRE2 did what I expected them to do, and in one instance with very strong nearby channel, was able to turn on the attenuator (I was getting an overload indication) and clearly pick out the weaker signal without the clipping, after adjusting the filter to block the out of band signal. The cutoff on the filters was steep, and left the low passed signal highly audible.

What I am sure of, is that the 7300 is and Excellent radio, and a joy to use.. AND built in power amp, tuner, user interface etc... very portable, great packaging etc..

So far I am extremely pleased with the radio!!!  I would buy it again!!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on April 02, 2016, 02:37:09 PM
I heard someone on one using the hand mic and it sounded great!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on April 03, 2016, 06:35:26 AM
There are already several reviews here on eHam. There is one chap that rates it 3/5, but he still says its a 'gud' radio. There appears to be a language barrier.
Then again, there is always someone that has to post a low number just to stir the pot. I've seen this many times.
His comments are directly opposed to the other reviews.
I collect older equipment, and the 756PRO I bought new in Tokyo when they were announced, now falls into this category. WOW.

I never thought I'd buy a new radio, but I'm gonna order a 7300 next week. Icom acknowledges this is an 'entry level radio'. I can't wait to see a 7600/7700/7800 version of this new technology.


Hmmmm, I see the 3/5 review was removed. I wonder if the OP was a Yaesu/Kenwood employee? ha ha
I wonder how many 7300s were purchased by Yae/Ken???
When I worked for IBM (printer division) whenever a competitor came out with a new model, we bought several...

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: IW5CI on April 06, 2016, 03:37:59 AM
I own several HF radios (FT-1000 MARKV full filter), ts-870, TS-940, and tons of vintage equipment (all of hybrid made by yaesu and kenwood), my last ICOM was IC-751A and IC-735 which was one of my favourite RTX.
The 7300 has the same size of the 735 and even if it hasn't the slidind door, i like it so much :) .
I am testing the 7300 and at the moment i have no complaints about it.
There is no other HF rig of the same price range that can compete with it. Who will buy a TS-590 or a FT-DX1200 now? no way.
I was thinking of buying a mint icom 781  but i ended buying the 7300 to try this new kind of transceiver.

SDR technology is really awesome for the possibility it can offer to the operator, but i could not mentally support the idea to use my computer instead of a real radio. Using a PC for making audio communications is like using a flight simulator instead of real flying. I need to touch the radio, to rotate the controls and to ear the voice from a radio speaker instead of the PC speaker.
I don't' want to ear or see a facebook or email pop-up while i am ragchewing on the band.
I even not support the PC fans in the background.
So the 7300 is so interesting. I can do real SDR radio without a PC!
The receiver is very good, and the NR works great , also the NB is really effective. The 7300 is very ergonomic and simple to use, i have no complaints at the moment.
I have hooked the usb cable and it is very simple to operate all digital modes.
I have also tried the 12khz mode output thru usb and it's not a problem to use HDSDR or DRM software.
It's very nice to record the audio on the SD card it's a really nice feature for SWL.
The display is very sharp and bright (i still use it with the plastic protection) and the real time spectrum scope is really realtime not the slowmotion panadapter of the more expensive 7600 . here we have a realtime waterfall display , the same of the more expensive sdr radio of the market.
The Icom remote software let you control the 7300 by the internet and have a real remote station without any limitations.

I was planning to install a HF radio station on my RV so i can use radio when i am on holidays , now i have just to bring my laptop and 3G router to use my home station from RV.

I love boatanchors and my favorite radio are heavier that 5 or 6 7300 , i am really pleased with the performance of this rig.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on April 06, 2016, 11:17:36 AM
Interesting comment Andrea.  The IC-7300  is virtually all computer.  The "radio" exists in software (equations) being executed by the computers in the IC-732 like box.  I also have a IC-735, good radio.  You speak of remote base via a laptop and internet connection yet you recoil from the idea of a "computer" being a radio.  How is that not the same?  I'm not being critical in the least of your joy at your new toy but I wonder how long it will be before you no longer need the illusion of a radio.  I looked at your QRZ page and see all of those venerable boxes you have collected.  A lot of them are radios I once owned as well.  Now what I see are  boxes full of equations being executed by discrete analogue computational devices.  After all the behavior of a resistor is completely defined by current and voltage defined in an equation.  Just a different way to think about "radio".

73  W9OY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KD8TUT on April 06, 2016, 12:44:07 PM
I'm sure this radio is a fine step forward at it's price point. So I'm happy it's on the market.

The thing that bothers me, is how anyone can post a review of the radio with only a few days of use. It's inconceivable.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMRADIO1 on April 06, 2016, 02:55:02 PM
The 7300 will definitely make a dent in Flex radio sales.  The price point alone will attract many potential Flex buyers and the best thing of all with the 7300 is that NO external computer is necessary.  Wake up Flex, you need to do the same. Incorporate the computer into the radio.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on April 06, 2016, 07:43:45 PM
Hamradio1

The computer IS already incorporated in a Flex signature series radio.  The Flex 6xxx radio is a server it does not rely on a "computer" to do anything in terms of signal processing.  To access the radio using a computer, a thin client is installed on the computer and is just one of many ways to access the radio that resides in the server.  I can access mine with my iPAD or a windows tablet and one guy built an Arduino to access his.  Another guy is building an android client, which should work on a cellphone or google nexus.  As a server, I have full access to my radio from anywhere on my network from any device (but only 1 device at a time).  The new Flex Maestro is another method of accessing the radio.  You don't need much of a computer either.  I've run mine from a $100 win 10 compute stick plugged into a HDMI port on a TV.
So I can run my entire radio station from anywhere.  I think Flex is way beyond your antique understanding of SDR, so maybe it's you who is asleep.  I have a friend who operates his Flex, amp, and MonsterIR, rotor which resides on a motorized crankup tower located in San Diego from something like 21 countries over a VPN connection.   I'm not knocking the 7300 in any way, I think it's a very exciting development in terms of advancement of the state of the art, at a very exciting price point, and I think it will introduce a lot of legacy radio hams to SDR, and that is a good thing.  I hope Icom sells a bunch of them.  It's about time ham radio lurches into the future.  I don't see the 7300 as much competition to Flex.  Like I said it's more of a legacy radio killer since the price v. performance in the 7300 is so much better compared to something like a K3.  The Flex has about a 20dBm greater RMDR compared to the 7300 and many many more features. 

https://community.flexradio.com/flexradio/topics/iw7dmh-flexcontroller

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5qc_Hc9vio

http://www.flexradio.com/amateur-products/flex-6000-signature-series/maestro/


73  W9OY

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: CS7AJS on April 07, 2016, 01:49:22 AM
2.5K USD and you need to build or rely on another piece of technology to use it?

I'm ok with kit builders and people trying to revive the good old days of Heathkit but this is just stupid!
Flex may have a great product but it is an incomplete one! You always need something else other than the box you buy and for the price it sells for, it should at least come with a small, 7", 100USD tablet that you can use to interface with the "radio".
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KD8TUT on April 07, 2016, 02:00:42 AM
Here we go....

Religious ham radio.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on April 07, 2016, 02:46:38 PM
You don't want the Flex experience then get an IC-7300 or something else.  I almost bought a 7300 to play with but then realized I would never use it.  I'm far too addicted to the Flex/Anan feature set.  I bought a KX3, used it for 3 days and haven't turned it on since.  I keep it mostly because it might be useful in the case of a hurricane. 

I did see a youtube video showing the 7300 receiver crunching when connected to a beam so not sure what to make of that as the 7300 uses a LTC2208 16 bit ADC.  There looks to be enough control in the radio (attenuators and such) to allow you to tune out the overload.  My Flex's or Anan's never crunch.  Personally I'd rather have "never crunch" than a 7" built in screen.

73  W9OY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: M1CTK on April 08, 2016, 03:08:18 PM
Took the IC-7300 for a spin this weekend as well, and wrote an article about it. Includes lots of info:

http://yo9irf.blogspot.com/2016/03/icom-ic-7300-review.html

I totally agree with 9V1YC, it's a pleasure to operate, the interface is very good and performance is excellent.

How does it cope with the dreaded power line interference on AM MW and 27 Mhz unless this is not a problem at your QTH ?

No way of simulating WFM for the OIRT FM band ?


Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2GYN on April 09, 2016, 09:49:29 AM
Their is a great group on facebook for the IC-7300.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/920301584731431/

Join and enjoy!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NI8R on April 09, 2016, 09:52:09 AM
What's that smell?

 Oh it nothing, it just the smell of a new cult brewing

 ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: M0GVZ on April 13, 2016, 04:48:34 AM


How does it cope with the dreaded power line interference on AM MW and 27 Mhz unless this is not a problem at your QTH ?

No way of simulating WFM for the OIRT FM band ?


Why would you be interested in using it on 27MHz? Thats the CB band, Same with OIRT? You don't need WFM unless you intend to transmit where you're not legally allowed to.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: M1CTK on April 13, 2016, 01:49:22 PM


How does it cope with the dreaded power line interference on AM MW and 27 Mhz unless this is not a problem at your QTH ?

No way of simulating WFM for the OIRT FM band ?


Why would you be interested in using it on 27MHz? Thats the CB band, Same with OIRT? You don't need WFM unless you intend to transmit where you're not legally allowed to.

If the noise reduction is good enough it would help a lot for 27 Mhz with the very bad PLT noise I get here on this band...obviously winding down the power to legal levels of course !

As for OIRT reception (only) why not...reception is very common during the summer Es season here...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK4YDR on April 15, 2016, 11:42:45 AM
The 7300 will definitely make a dent in Flex radio sales.  The price point alone will attract many potential Flex buyers and the best thing of all with the 7300 is that NO external computer is necessary.  Wake up Flex, you need to do the same. Incorporate the computer into the radio.

Nope you are dead wrong - sorry to inform you. Flex needs to remain top tier and computer dependent. Sorry you are incompatible with computers.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMRADIO1 on April 15, 2016, 12:20:22 PM
The 7300 will definitely make a dent in Flex radio sales.  The price point alone will attract many potential Flex buyers and the best thing of all with the 7300 is that NO external computer is necessary.  Wake up Flex, you need to do the same. Incorporate the computer into the radio.

Nope you are dead wrong - sorry to inform you. Flex needs to remain top tier and computer dependent. Sorry you are incompatible with computers.

Nope sorry you are wrong. The wave of the new SDR radios is NO computer.  Icom just started it with their entry level 7300.  I am sure down the road they will introduce this technology in more upscale radios.  I am very compatible with computers, I work in the IT industry.  Flex is already starting to move in that direction with the Maestro.  Dump the computer Flex that is the only way to go.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9MHZ on April 15, 2016, 05:25:16 PM
Yep. Writing's on the wall.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK4YDR on April 15, 2016, 06:26:03 PM
The 7300 will definitely make a dent in Flex radio sales.  The price point alone will attract many potential Flex buyers and the best thing of all with the 7300 is that NO external computer is necessary.  Wake up Flex, you need to do the same. Incorporate the computer into the radio.

Nope you are dead wrong - sorry to inform you. Flex needs to remain top tier and computer dependent. Sorry you are incompatible with computers.

Nope sorry you are wrong. The wave of the new SDR radios is NO computer.  Icom just started it with their entry level 7300.  I am sure down the road they will introduce this technology in more upscale radios.  I am very compatible with computers, I work in the IT industry.  Flex is already starting to move in that direction with the Maestro.  Dump the computer Flex that is the only way to go.


Then why the hell do we get rid of super hets then? Whats the point of an SDR if you dump the computer? Sorry your argument is based on what? I love having a 24" Band scope. I don't about you but a little 5" LCD on the 7300 is too small to enjoy. There is and will remain a place for SDR on PC/MAC. Sorry mate I disagree completely with your homicide wishes of true SDR interfaces.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: CS7AJS on April 16, 2016, 01:44:33 AM
 ::)

Having  a knobed SDR doesn't imply the lack of possibiliy to use a computer with it, but the time of having an SDR that only works with a computer is over.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NI8R on April 16, 2016, 05:06:04 AM

[/quote]


Then why the hell do we get rid of super hets then? Whats the point of an SDR if you dump the computer? Sorry your argument is based on what? I love having a 24" Band scope. I don't about you but a little 5" LCD on the 7300 is too small to enjoy. There is and will remain a place for SDR on PC/MAC. Sorry mate I disagree completely with your homicide wishes of true SDR interfaces.
[/quote]


I beg  to disagree, once you go to dual 29"  4k monitors, one for your flex and one for the Anan. You can't go back to a 24" single monitor . I have the 7851 running on the old 24 inch monitor so I can have knobs and screens.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WA2OLZ on April 16, 2016, 05:24:16 AM
::)

Having  a knobed SDR doesn't imply the lack of possibiliy to use a computer with it, but the time of having an SDR that only works with a computer is over.


Exactly right. The key word here is "possibility". I fail to understand the mindset of those who are convinced their way of operating is the way all hams should/will operate. I have boatanchor AM gear, Flex and an IC-7300. Each scenario has it's own level of satisfaction, unique to itself. They are not mutually exclusive.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KT0DD on April 17, 2016, 05:13:57 AM
I'm glad to see a SDR radio like the 7300 that has the standard radio with knobs all in one box format.

I am just an average HF ragchewer who also likes to casually chase DX. No contesting here. I am a basic computer user who can't troubleshoot software problems much more than uninstalling / re-installing a glitchy program. I suspect there are many hams out there like me. I like using a computer, but not interested in dissecting one.

That is why I like the idea of the IC-7300, SunSDR MB-1 (if it ever comes out)etc. I do not want a computer dependent box radio. I don't want to end up with a radio I can't use if my hard drive crashes. I am not interested in Flex, Anan, Arudino, raspberry pi, etc. These may be fine for computer software engineers, IT guys etc., but not for me.

73. Todd - KT0DD
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on April 17, 2016, 06:48:28 AM
There is and will remain a place for SDR on PC/MAC.

SDR's with a computer interface is SO yesterday. Using a radio with a computer/mouse is NOT a natural way to use a radio. Knobs/buttons are natural interfaces to human hamradio ops. Plain and simple, the majority of hams want knobbed radios and many are interested in SDR technology. Knobbed interfaces to a SDR are a perfect fit for the Ham masses. Flexradio recognizes this, hence their feeble attempt with the overpriced Maestro.

Flexradio lovers will disagree as the their beloved computer controlled Flexradios go the way of Ten-Tecs, thanks to future looking radios like the Icom 7300. The 7300 is a "testing of the SDR market" by a Big 3 Ham Manufacturer. Thanks to the Very positive reception  of the 7300 there will soon be a flood of mainstream AND high end knobbed SDR's and then it will be R.I.P. for Flexer Lovers with computers..  ;) :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3RSW on April 17, 2016, 08:44:09 AM
I don't think one can assume a static commercial world; it's similar to thinking in terms of a simple, never growing or non-changing pie, divisible forever in its original parts.

If a company, Flex for example, sees a changing market, what's to prevent them from simply adding a 6300, or 6500 set of boards vertically into the back of their Maestro?
A vertical finned heat sink and the boards would only add an a couple of inches to the Maestro's thickness.  Think what Apple has done with pedestal Mac's by simply adding boards behind the monitor.

I'll bet such an addition is already in the concept stage, certainly past exploratory.
They'll probably have to do this to meet an ever dropping price point clearly, now defined by Icom with other high volume, very deep pocket manufacturers to follow.

There will probably also be an HDMI port or equivalent for lash-up to a large screen LCD monitor if desired.

As time goes on, 16 bit or better boards will become cheaper allowing a unitized, really decent SDR combination to remain competitive, e. g., the possibly upcoming QS1R which will incorporate equivalent or better VSLI chips, less power hungry at 2/3 cost of original version and incorporate even more separate receiver chunks.

If one wants lesser 12 or 14 bit performance for almost same real world performance, then costs will be even lower.  Don't think it'll ever approach the subsidized 8 bit phone world, but cost/performance will definitely improve.

One board, small cabinet receiver only, "gen. purpose computerless" SDR's will always be available for those wanting just a receiver to use as an adjunct to their TS-590's, K3's and coupled with all their ham radio intensive computers running logging programs, propagation programs, weather monitors, mapping and antenna operating software.
(Psst; don't tell anybody, but these "computerless" SDR's have a screaming FPGA and fast routing computer imbedded on their boards.)

Even if most ham, future transmit capable SDR's are going to be partially or fully knobbed, there is the SWL market in all its facets, say hobbists such as radio astronomy enthusiasts, etc. that will want SDR's with specific function panel or mouse controlled computer tail ends that simultaneously use othe programs.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZL4PLM on April 17, 2016, 03:51:42 PM
so funny that a radio that has barely hit the shelves has people already firmly predicting the future   ::)             but thats nothing new for hams!

I doubt that  Maestro will evolve into a knobbed box - the point of Maestro is that its a control panel for those that have a knob fetish and/or need such controls but I doubt it will evolve into a knobbed radio it would require a major shift in screen size and that's not something I think many flex owners would want to give up. Personally I love my 28" display and external control knob driven off my touch screen Surface .... I find my DX'ing capability enhanced by this setup - no way I would go back to a radio with such a tiny display/panel and I do laugh at people who seem quick to want to write off this approach - having owned and used my Flex 6500's in anger in the pileups of nearly all the of most wanted DXped's this past 18 months I shall not be wanting to go back to tiny displays - or be tied to monitoring only one band at a time .. when I can use 4 - looking for openings and band switches from the DX .. all on a big screen ... nah I don't want some tiny display thanks. Each to their own however.  Maybe one day Icom will have a DDC version of their 7850's but I'd hate to see the price and I think that's still 5 years or more away .. if not further given they have only just started to look at SDR's with the IC-7300. 

What I also find funny is people trying to compare radios like these - it's not apples for apples .. the 7300 is a different beast than say a Flex 6500 - the 7300 is still a more traditional format radio than true remote boxed SDR. very different creatures. Single receiver vs 4, USB audio interface vs IP transport, basic radios vs one that allows multiple RF paths, ext receiver, transverter interface etc, capable of 10 MHz locking, connection over Wifi .. its nothing like equal ... a pointless exercise. And very different price ranges!

That's not to say the 7300 isn't a nice radio ... its very cool looking and I think that's whats selling .. but the jury is only just convening, never mind deliberating, on Icom's capability to build radios built on software .. Icom Yaesu and Kenwood and Elecraft have only ever built radios that use tradtional IF chains and in recent years have utilised IF -DSP usually around 32 bit DSP chips like the TMS series of devices but they are still low KHz IF conversions not true DDC receivers.

Given the amount of effort and costs around software development I will be very interested to see how successful Icom will be creating evolving software for their new baby - nothing ground breaking so far from what I see - running a software dev team is very different from running some RF engineers, so it remains to be seen how the firmware of the 7300 evolves .. if much at all. Icom have never been one for releasing regular updates with new features, more a couple releases during a radios life - so again - we will see how well this pans over.  It also remains to be seen how well the choice of a 14 bit ADC will perform - a year or so will see how successful it has been vs high end receivers using 16 bit devices.

Give it 5 years or more and give me a radio with high features and regular software updates and new features and I 'might ' get excited ...

Working for a technology company I learnt a long time ago to stop trying to predict the future - It won't go the way you expect :)

     
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on April 17, 2016, 04:24:20 PM
Working for a technology company I learnt a long time ago to stop trying to predict the future

It is NOT predicting the future when simple facts like this are presented. It's called telling the truth:

"SDR's with a computer interface is SO yesterday. Using a radio with a computer/mouse is NOT a natural way to use a radio. Knobs/buttons are natural interfaces to human hamradio ops. Plain and simple, the majority of hams want knobbed radios and many are interested in SDR technology. Knobbed interfaces to a SDR are a perfect fit for the Ham masses."

Understandably, Flexradio owners with mouse/computers will have a different spin on the Truth.....

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZL4PLM on April 17, 2016, 04:51:10 PM
Still beating that same old "I hate Flex" drum eh Stan ...

Luckily the choice of how people operate ... is just that ... a choice

But you keep that chip on your shoulder fed it deserves you 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WA2OLZ on April 17, 2016, 05:03:23 PM
This crud is getting beyond juvenile - approaching the infantile. Some of these folks are a major embarrassment to the amateur community. Pick your side; it doesn't matter at all.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AA4PB on April 17, 2016, 05:13:04 PM
Technology companies attempt to predict the future all the time. Those who do it correctly stay in business. Those who refuse to change go out of business.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AF6WL on April 17, 2016, 06:24:56 PM
Technology companies attempt to predict the future all the time. Those who do it correctly stay in business. Those who refuse to change go out of business.


Yep, the trick is knowing the right point to enter the market :
Too early and development time is long and costs high - sales volumes low.
Too late and you are left holding stock of old technology and have missed the peak sales volume when you do catch up.
If forced to catch up too quickly the risk is buggy hardware and software - and tarnished reputation.

It's going to be a tough fight as the players adapt to new conditions.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on April 17, 2016, 08:06:53 PM
Flex did the SDR for the masses thing at Dayton 2 years ago.  They sold a 6 month production run of radios in 10 days.  According to one source the 7300 has just about sold out it's first US run in about 2 weeks.  What this tells you is Ham radio is totally hungry for SDR.  It also tells you all the Dayton discretionary impulse spending money has been blown for this year.  

I think Flex has zero interest in delivering a cheap 14 bit closed box solution to anyone.  That cheap radio would be nothing like the rest of the Flex line in terms of performance and would not be able to run SSDR.  You have to know your market.  The 7300 is basically a reinvention of a Icom 735 using a cheap ADC a cheap FPGA a cheap tablet and a Pro-III DSP card.  Because it's SDR it will perform well rgardless and it won't require a shoebox full of roofing filters.  In fact Icom's radio will only further whet's the appetite for purchase of a better more powerful more versatile SDR.  You may say: well Icom will deliver a better SDR, the only problem is to jump that performance shark will require a big difference in architecture compared to the 7300.  

A couple weeks ago I was running 2 DX pileups, FT4JA and VK0EK on the same radio simultaneously  I had 2 panadapters and 4 VFO's going as well as a couple skimmers and full duplex RX between pileups.  I don't think any 7300 is going to be doing that any time soon.

http://sdr-w9oy.blogspot.com/2016/04/why-i-own-flex-6500.html

Flex has now set it's sights on delivering radios and workflow solutions to Contest and big DX stations.  This will win over the local club big shot.  He will soon enough have his K3 SO2R micoHam lashup on the market in favor of a 6700 SO2R in a box.  Soon enough the station management box from Flex (antenna switches, rotor controllers etc) and amp/tuner will follow.  Once the bigshot gets going on this, all the wanna be's in the ham club will be jumping on the band wagon.  The first action was to get SDR on the ham radio agenda and Flex not Icom made this happen.  Like I said you gotta know your market.  

73  W9OY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KD8TUT on April 18, 2016, 12:58:36 AM
Flex did the SDR for the masses thing at Dayton 2 years ago.  They sold a 6 month production run of radios in 10 days.  According to one source the 7300 has just about sold out it's first US run in about 2 weeks.  What this tells you is Ham radio is totally hungry for SDR.  It also tells you all the Dayton discretionary impulse spending money has been blown for this year.  

I think Flex has zero interest in delivering a cheap 14 bit closed box solution to anyone.  That cheap radio would be nothing like the rest of the Flex line in terms of performance and would not be able to run SSDR.  You have to know your market.  The 7300 is basically a reinvention of a Icom 735 using a cheap ADC a cheap FPGA a cheap tablet and a Pro-III DSP card.  Because it's SDR it will perform well rgardless and it won't require a shoebox full of roofing filters.  In fact Icom's radio will only further whet's the appetite for purchase of a better more powerful more versatile SDR.  You may say: well Icom will deliver a better SDR, the only problem is to jump that performance shark will require a big difference in architecture compared to the 7300.  

A couple weeks ago I was running 2 DX pileups, FT4JA and VK0EK on the same radio simultaneously  I had 2 panadapters and 4 VFO's going as well as a couple skimmers and full duplex RX between pileups.  I don't think any 7300 is going to be doing that any time soon.

http://sdr-w9oy.blogspot.com/2016/04/why-i-own-flex-6500.html

Flex has now set it's sights on delivering radios and workflow solutions to Contest and big DX stations.  This will win over the local club big shot.  He will soon enough have his K3 SO2R micoHam lashup on the market in favor of a 6700 SO2R in a box.  Soon enough the station management box from Flex (antenna switches, rotor controllers etc) and amp/tuner will follow.  Once the bigshot gets going on this, all the wanna be's in the ham club will be jumping on the band wagon.  The first action was to get SDR on the ham radio agenda and Flex not Icom made this happen.  Like I said you gotta know your market.  

73  W9OY

Excellent post.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: CS7AJS on April 18, 2016, 03:26:29 AM
Some people just don't want to see...

Facts:
1. Flex makes a box that is not a complete radio. It needs to interact with other devices to be used as a radio (buy a flex 6700, get home, plug the power in, the antenna and start talking.. yeah right)
2.- Icom makes a complete radio (buy an IC7300, get home, plug the power in, the mic, antenna and start ragchewing\DXing\Contesting\etc)
3. After you realize you need a screen, computer, mouse and keyboard OR a tablet OR a Maestro start using your Flex for whatever it suits you. You can have 4 slices and best receiver in the market, etc
4. For home use you have that big 28" LCD on your shack plugged into your computer that is connected to the Icom, running a single receiver, viewing about 1Mhz bandscope, etc you can keep doing your thing
5. It's field day and you want to participate from the local park. Unplug your Icom, place it in a foam padded case and go to the park. Once you arrive, plugin the antenna, psu and your on the air, meanwhile the Flex guy is still thinking if he should take the maestro, the tablet or unhook the computer... but the tiny box that generates RF is already packed...

The thing people don't realize is: the Icom ALLOWS, GIVES OPTION on operation type, allows the person to choose, it's a complete, enclosed setup. The Flex is not. Its's an incomplete setup, like buying a kickass engine but having no chassis where to mount it.
WHEN (not if!) Flex makes a complete, all in one box, that allows interaction with the RF box, it will sell more than the big 3 together...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on April 18, 2016, 03:51:15 AM
Of course when you get to field day and the 5 other transmitters come on the air and your front end craps because its a cheap $50 ADC, you realize you brought an all in one doorstop and you long for a Flex 6300 and a $150 laptop because its front end doesn't crash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmmd9ABK0Aw

You are right it takes about 3 more minutes to get a Flex going compared to a 7300

1 plug in power supply
2 plug in antenna
3 plug in mic
4 load a piece of software into a computer (kind of like installing Chrome)
5 plug the ethernet into the radio.
6 make a contact 

When I got my 6300 I went from box to contact in 10 minutes  whoop de doo!

73  W9OY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on April 18, 2016, 04:57:02 AM
For home use you have that big 28" LCD on your shack plugged into your computer that is connected to the Icom, running a single receiver, viewing about 1Mhz bandscope, etc you can keep doing your thing

I'd like to see a photo or screenshot of that 28 inch panadapter.  The resolution of the 4.3 inch panadapter is so low, I'm not sure it will scale up very well.

I think the IC-7300 is a great radio for what it is, a $1500 radio.  I'm more interested in what Icom comes up with next at a higher price point.

73, N1EU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMRADIO1 on April 18, 2016, 06:37:22 AM
Of course when you get to field day and the 5 other transmitters come on the air and your front end craps because its a cheap $50 ADC, you realize you brought an all in one doorstop and you long for a Flex 6300 and a $150 laptop because its front end doesn't crash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmmd9ABK0Aw

You are right it takes about 3 more minutes to get a Flex going compared to a 7300

1 plug in power supply
2 plug in antenna
3 plug in mic
4 load a piece of software into a computer (kind of like installing Chrome)
5 plug the ethernet into the radio.
6 make a contact 

When I got my 6300 I went from box to contact in 10 minutes  whoop de doo!

73  W9OY

Whoop de doo!  The Flex is NOT a complete radio.  I know I had one and got rid of it in a few months.  Went back to a knobbed radio and glad I did.  The main reason for getting rid of the Flex was do to the lack of software upgrades.  All Flex did was promise, promise and promise. They got rid of the roadmap because they could not come close to getting the software out on a timely basis. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AF6WL on April 18, 2016, 06:52:51 AM
It seems to me that Flex vs Icom at this price point is not as important as the direct sampling vs IF sampling battle.
The prices of the traditional rigs are falling e.g TS590SG,FT-991 down to $1300 : Icom must be chewing up the market at the mid price point.

BTW. what are the ENOB numbers for the ADCs used in the Flex and Icom.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on April 18, 2016, 07:09:44 AM
  All Flex did was promise, promise and promise. They got rid of the roadmap because they could not come close to getting the software out on a timely basis. 

Dang are they STILL doing that promise thing?

I have to wonder if they actually have sold any of those Feeble Overpriced Knobbed Maestro units? EVERYTIME I have gone to the Flex Website in the last year to buy one (yeah right) they have a shipping date in the Future.  ;) :D :D :D :D :D  Is the Maestro just another Future promise?

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on April 18, 2016, 08:14:23 AM
so funny that a radio that has barely hit the shelves has people already firmly predicting the future   ::)             but thats nothing new for hams!

I doubt that  Maestro will evolve into a knobbed box - the point of Maestro is that its a control panel for those that have a knob fetish and/or need such controls but I doubt it will evolve into a knobbed radio it would require a major shift in screen size and that's not something I think many flex owners would want to give up. Personally I love my 28" display and external control knob driven off my touch screen Surface .... I find my DX'ing capability enhanced by this setup - no way I would go back to a radio with such a tiny display/panel and I do laugh at people who seem quick to want to write off this approach - having owned and used my Flex 6500's in anger in the pileups of nearly all the of most wanted DXped's this past 18 months I shall not be wanting to go back to tiny displays - or be tied to monitoring only one band at a time .. when I can use 4 - looking for openings and band switches from the DX .. all on a big screen ... nah I don't want some tiny display thanks. Each to their own however.  Maybe one day Icom will have a DDC version of their 7850's but I'd hate to see the price and I think that's still 5 years or more away .. if not further given they have only just started to look at SDR's with the IC-7300. 

What I also find funny is people trying to compare radios like these - it's not apples for apples .. the 7300 is a different beast than say a Flex 6500 - the 7300 is still a more traditional format radio than true remote boxed SDR. very different creatures. Single receiver vs 4, USB audio interface vs IP transport, basic radios vs one that allows multiple RF paths, ext receiver, transverter interface etc, capable of 10 MHz locking, connection over Wifi .. its nothing like equal ... a pointless exercise. And very different price ranges!

That's not to say the 7300 isn't a nice radio ... its very cool looking and I think that's whats selling .. but the jury is only just convening, never mind deliberating, on Icom's capability to build radios built on software .. Icom Yaesu and Kenwood and Elecraft have only ever built radios that use tradtional IF chains and in recent years have utilised IF -DSP usually around 32 bit DSP chips like the TMS series of devices but they are still low KHz IF conversions not true DDC receivers.

Given the amount of effort and costs around software development I will be very interested to see how successful Icom will be creating evolving software for their new baby - nothing ground breaking so far from what I see - running a software dev team is very different from running some RF engineers, so it remains to be seen how the firmware of the 7300 evolves .. if much at all. Icom have never been one for releasing regular updates with new features, more a couple releases during a radios life - so again - we will see how well this pans over.  It also remains to be seen how well the choice of a 14 bit ADC will perform - a year or so will see how successful it has been vs high end receivers using 16 bit devices.

Give it 5 years or more and give me a radio with high features and regular software updates and new features and I 'might ' get excited ...

Working for a technology company I learnt a long time ago to stop trying to predict the future - It won't go the way you expect :)

     
Sorry to prove you wrong on Icom updates. They have already released the first update for the 7300.....

ron
N4UE

Yes, I have one and it's amazing.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KS4JU on April 18, 2016, 08:22:17 AM
The question is the Icom 7300 a Flex / Anan killer? Yes but not directly. However, the "blackbox" SDR manufacturers should be very concerned. I have been a hardcore SDR enthusiasts for many years and have owned rigs from Flex and Anan. The "blackbox" SDRs from Flex and Apache Labs when connected to computer are some the best radios you can get your hands on. Computer driven SDR systems no doubt offer the most flexibility and power in signal processing. Not to mention great flexibility in interfacing to 3rd party digital software, slice receivers, diversity reception, Pure Signal, etc. Not to mention the ability to have a system that can be continuously upgraded.

My current setup includes two SDR radios. The Elad FDM-Duo and the Icom 7300. Elad which is not as well know as the big 3 really nailed the whole "hybrid" SDR thing out of the box (review in the latest QST). Elad produced an very nice standalone direct sampling QRP (5 to 8 watts) transceiver that can be used by simply turning it on and plugging in a mic or key. However when plugged into a computer and Elad's very powerful FDM-S2 software the FDM-DUO becomes a great SDR transceiver with a 8MHz bandwidth, dual independent slice receivers, 8 independent VFOs with their own virtual audio cable input /outputs, direct interfacing to CW skimmer displayed on the band scope, built in DRM decoding, etc. The FDM-DUO can also be used on 2 meters with the addition of a preselector and an amp. Priced at $1149, this puts the FDM-DUO at roughly the same price as the Elecraft KX3. The Elad FDM-DUO is pretty close to the "Holy Grail" of hybrid SDRs.

Now we have the Icom 7300 SDR 100 watt direct sampling transceiver with an excellent built in touch screen realtime band scope. After being out for only a month, the IC-7300 has took the amateur radio world by storm. Take a look around on the forums and you will see that IC-7300 users are very pleased with the radio's performance which is rare for a launch radio. The IC-7300 is being compared very favorably to current transceivers priced 2 to 3 times more. Take a listen on 40M or 20M, and you will hear plenty on the air as well as chatter from other operators considering the purchase of one. The Icom IC-7300 offers great recovered audio quality and some stellar transmit audio out of the box. The receiver test numbers are very good for a transceiver in this price range. Not to mention it has knobs unlike the "blackbox" SDR which are immediately identifiable by non SDR users. Just plugin and turn on. So the IC-7300 will appeal to SDR users as well as "legacy" radio operators. The no scope on a computer screen situation can be mollified somewhat by using the optional RS-BA1 software. The RS-BA1 allows complete computer control of the IC-7300 as well as an "almost" realtime band scope that can be used for "click n tune". At then end of the day the IC-7300 is a gorgeous well performing SDR rig for a paltry sum of $1500 (and you know it will get cheaper). At the end of the the day the Icom IC-7300 is a terrific transceiver at a very good price. Sure you can nitpick, but so far there isn't much to complain about.

Ok back to how the IC-7300 may kill off the "blackbox" SDR systems unless they change their ways. If the Icom had come out the box offering a transceiver that was a mashup of the Icom-7300 and the Elad FDM-DUO then it would pretty much been "game over" for the "blackbox" SDR manufacturers. Who knows with a firmware update to allow access to the IQ stream via USB may come about at some point. Even now the IC-7300 has captured some buyers who were considering purchasing a "black box" SDR system. Also, Icom with the IC-7300 has just driven a stake through the heart of Yeasu's and Kenwood's and even Icom's lower cost mainstream transceivers. We know that to compete that Yaesu and Kenwood is going to have to step up their game to compete with Icom by offering similar or better SDR transceivers. So probably in the very near future we will indeed see higher performance standalone SDR's with the option to be computer driven, dual slice receivers, etc.

Ok, lets talk about the economics of the situation. The current offerings from Flex and Apache labs for a 100 Watt "black box" transceiver is $2500. Let's also not forget that you have to throw in the cost of a decent computer system to get the full benefit from the system at lets say $1000. Well thats about a $3500 investment. If you want to get fancy and use the Maestro add on for the basic Flex system to use it as standalone unit like the IC-7300 that's $2500 for the SDR box and $1200 for the Maestro for a total of $3700 investment. Ouch. Ok let's say the Icom, Yaesu, or Kenwood does deliver that improved more powerful hybrid SDR with optional signal computer processing of the transceiver with slice receivers and all the other bells and whistles for $2500. Now really what do you think most amateur radio operators would by with that choice? Would you buy half an SDR system for $2500 or a complete system that can be used standalone for $2500? I think the answer may be a "no brainer" here. Ok if the answer is the complete standalone system with optional computer processing that could mean doom for the "blackbox" manufacturers unless they change their ways. To survive at all they will have to offer competitively priced standalone solutions or significantly lower the price on "blackbox" units. For example if you could pick up both a Flex 6300 unit and a Maestro unit for a total of $2000, then Flex may continue to survive awhile longer. So, yes the IC-7300 and it's ancestors will probably kill off the "blackbox" systems in the long run.

Oh, which one do I like between the Elad-FDM Duo full SDR and the Icom-7300? Actually both. It's still nice to have that gorgeous 27 inch band scope and dual slice receivers plus all the advantages of the powerful SDR software. Then again it is so nice not have to deal with the computer and do some "old school" operating by just turning  on the IC-7300 and poke it in the screen and listen that gorgeous audio coming out of it. Not to mention switching on it's killer noise reduction feature. Oh and playing with the VFO knob and buttons helps too..............
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on April 18, 2016, 09:33:10 AM
The question is the Icom 7300 a Flex / Anan killer? Yes but not directly. However, the "blackbox" SDR manufacturers should be very concerned.

Certainly the Flexradio Lovers are VERY concerned. One only has to read their rigorous defensive eHam posts of the obsolete computer/mouse/SDR concept. They are afraid. Very afraid......

I enjoyed your whole post, it is refreshing to find an intelligent eHam post of the what is really happening in the SDR world, instead of the Same Old re-runs of I love my FLexradio because _______ fill in the blanks with BS spin.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZL4PLM on April 18, 2016, 12:42:14 PM
so funny that a radio that has barely hit the shelves has people already firmly predicting the future   ::)             but thats nothing new for hams!

I doubt that  Maestro will evolve into a knobbed box - the point of Maestro is that its a control panel for those that have a knob fetish and/or need such controls but I doubt it will evolve into a knobbed radio it would require a major shift in screen size and that's not something I think many flex owners would want to give up. Personally I love my 28" display and external control knob driven off my touch screen Surface .... I find my DX'ing capability enhanced by this setup - no way I would go back to a radio with such a tiny display/panel and I do laugh at people who seem quick to want to write off this approach - having owned and used my Flex 6500's in anger in the pileups of nearly all the of most wanted DXped's this past 18 months I shall not be wanting to go back to tiny displays - or be tied to monitoring only one band at a time .. when I can use 4 - looking for openings and band switches from the DX .. all on a big screen ... nah I don't want some tiny display thanks. Each to their own however.  Maybe one day Icom will have a DDC version of their 7850's but I'd hate to see the price and I think that's still 5 years or more away .. if not further given they have only just started to look at SDR's with the IC-7300. 

What I also find funny is people trying to compare radios like these - it's not apples for apples .. the 7300 is a different beast than say a Flex 6500 - the 7300 is still a more traditional format radio than true remote boxed SDR. very different creatures. Single receiver vs 4, USB audio interface vs IP transport, basic radios vs one that allows multiple RF paths, ext receiver, transverter interface etc, capable of 10 MHz locking, connection over Wifi .. its nothing like equal ... a pointless exercise. And very different price ranges!

That's not to say the 7300 isn't a nice radio ... its very cool looking and I think that's whats selling .. but the jury is only just convening, never mind deliberating, on Icom's capability to build radios built on software .. Icom Yaesu and Kenwood and Elecraft have only ever built radios that use tradtional IF chains and in recent years have utilised IF -DSP usually around 32 bit DSP chips like the TMS series of devices but they are still low KHz IF conversions not true DDC receivers.

Given the amount of effort and costs around software development I will be very interested to see how successful Icom will be creating evolving software for their new baby - nothing ground breaking so far from what I see - running a software dev team is very different from running some RF engineers, so it remains to be seen how the firmware of the 7300 evolves .. if much at all. Icom have never been one for releasing regular updates with new features, more a couple releases during a radios life - so again - we will see how well this pans over.  It also remains to be seen how well the choice of a 14 bit ADC will perform - a year or so will see how successful it has been vs high end receivers using 16 bit devices.

Give it 5 years or more and give me a radio with high features and regular software updates and new features and I 'might ' get excited ...

Working for a technology company I learnt a long time ago to stop trying to predict the future - It won't go the way you expect :)

     
Sorry to prove you wrong on Icom updates. They have already released the first update for the 7300.....

ron
N4UE

Yes, I have one and it's amazing.


Tell that again in 2 years time how many software updates you get

What new features did you get with that upgrade?

of course its amazing ... if you never owned a touch screen colour display radio before ....
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMRADIO1 on April 18, 2016, 12:50:00 PM
so funny that a radio that has barely hit the shelves has people already firmly predicting the future   ::)             but thats nothing new for hams!

I doubt that  Maestro will evolve into a knobbed box - the point of Maestro is that its a control panel for those that have a knob fetish and/or need such controls but I doubt it will evolve into a knobbed radio it would require a major shift in screen size and that's not something I think many flex owners would want to give up. Personally I love my 28" display and external control knob driven off my touch screen Surface .... I find my DX'ing capability enhanced by this setup - no way I would go back to a radio with such a tiny display/panel and I do laugh at people who seem quick to want to write off this approach - having owned and used my Flex 6500's in anger in the pileups of nearly all the of most wanted DXped's this past 18 months I shall not be wanting to go back to tiny displays - or be tied to monitoring only one band at a time .. when I can use 4 - looking for openings and band switches from the DX .. all on a big screen ... nah I don't want some tiny display thanks. Each to their own however.  Maybe one day Icom will have a DDC version of their 7850's but I'd hate to see the price and I think that's still 5 years or more away .. if not further given they have only just started to look at SDR's with the IC-7300. 

What I also find funny is people trying to compare radios like these - it's not apples for apples .. the 7300 is a different beast than say a Flex 6500 - the 7300 is still a more traditional format radio than true remote boxed SDR. very different creatures. Single receiver vs 4, USB audio interface vs IP transport, basic radios vs one that allows multiple RF paths, ext receiver, transverter interface etc, capable of 10 MHz locking, connection over Wifi .. its nothing like equal ... a pointless exercise. And very different price ranges!

That's not to say the 7300 isn't a nice radio ... its very cool looking and I think that's whats selling .. but the jury is only just convening, never mind deliberating, on Icom's capability to build radios built on software .. Icom Yaesu and Kenwood and Elecraft have only ever built radios that use tradtional IF chains and in recent years have utilised IF -DSP usually around 32 bit DSP chips like the TMS series of devices but they are still low KHz IF conversions not true DDC receivers.

Given the amount of effort and costs around software development I will be very interested to see how successful Icom will be creating evolving software for their new baby - nothing ground breaking so far from what I see - running a software dev team is very different from running some RF engineers, so it remains to be seen how the firmware of the 7300 evolves .. if much at all. Icom have never been one for releasing regular updates with new features, more a couple releases during a radios life - so again - we will see how well this pans over.  It also remains to be seen how well the choice of a 14 bit ADC will perform - a year or so will see how successful it has been vs high end receivers using 16 bit devices.

Give it 5 years or more and give me a radio with high features and regular software updates and new features and I 'might ' get excited ...

Working for a technology company I learnt a long time ago to stop trying to predict the future - It won't go the way you expect :)

     
Sorry to prove you wrong on Icom updates. They have already released the first update for the 7300.....

ron
N4UE

Yes, I have one and it's amazing.


Tell that again in 2 years time how many software updates you get

What new features did you get with that upgrade?

of course its amazing ... if you never owned a touch screen colour display radio before ....

At least Icom will not charge for updates.  That can't be said for Flex if and when version 2.0 ever comes out.  That is going to be a $199 charge.  They are getting as bad as Microsoft.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZL4PLM on April 18, 2016, 01:55:26 PM
so funny that a radio that has barely hit the shelves has people already firmly predicting the future   ::)             but thats nothing new for hams!

I doubt that  Maestro will evolve into a knobbed box - the point of Maestro is that its a control panel for those that have a knob fetish and/or need such controls but I doubt it will evolve into a knobbed radio it would require a major shift in screen size and that's not something I think many flex owners would want to give up. Personally I love my 28" display and external control knob driven off my touch screen Surface .... I find my DX'ing capability enhanced by this setup - no way I would go back to a radio with such a tiny display/panel and I do laugh at people who seem quick to want to write off this approach - having owned and used my Flex 6500's in anger in the pileups of nearly all the of most wanted DXped's this past 18 months I shall not be wanting to go back to tiny displays - or be tied to monitoring only one band at a time .. when I can use 4 - looking for openings and band switches from the DX .. all on a big screen ... nah I don't want some tiny display thanks. Each to their own however.  Maybe one day Icom will have a DDC version of their 7850's but I'd hate to see the price and I think that's still 5 years or more away .. if not further given they have only just started to look at SDR's with the IC-7300.  

What I also find funny is people trying to compare radios like these - it's not apples for apples .. the 7300 is a different beast than say a Flex 6500 - the 7300 is still a more traditional format radio than true remote boxed SDR. very different creatures. Single receiver vs 4, USB audio interface vs IP transport, basic radios vs one that allows multiple RF paths, ext receiver, transverter interface etc, capable of 10 MHz locking, connection over Wifi .. its nothing like equal ... a pointless exercise. And very different price ranges!

That's not to say the 7300 isn't a nice radio ... its very cool looking and I think that's whats selling .. but the jury is only just convening, never mind deliberating, on Icom's capability to build radios built on software .. Icom Yaesu and Kenwood and Elecraft have only ever built radios that use tradtional IF chains and in recent years have utilised IF -DSP usually around 32 bit DSP chips like the TMS series of devices but they are still low KHz IF conversions not true DDC receivers.

Given the amount of effort and costs around software development I will be very interested to see how successful Icom will be creating evolving software for their new baby - nothing ground breaking so far from what I see - running a software dev team is very different from running some RF engineers, so it remains to be seen how the firmware of the 7300 evolves .. if much at all. Icom have never been one for releasing regular updates with new features, more a couple releases during a radios life - so again - we will see how well this pans over.  It also remains to be seen how well the choice of a 14 bit ADC will perform - a year or so will see how successful it has been vs high end receivers using 16 bit devices.

Give it 5 years or more and give me a radio with high features and regular software updates and new features and I 'might ' get excited ...

Working for a technology company I learnt a long time ago to stop trying to predict the future - It won't go the way you expect :)

    
Sorry to prove you wrong on Icom updates. They have already released the first update for the 7300.....

ron
N4UE

Yes, I have one and it's amazing.


Tell that again in 2 years time how many software updates you get

What new features did you get with that upgrade?

of course its amazing ... if you never owned a touch screen colour display radio before ....

At least Icom will not charge for updates.  That can't be said for Flex if and when version 2.0 ever comes out.  That is going to be a $199 charge.  They are getting as bad as Microsoft.


Honest you really do talk out of your backside - trash talk behind an alias ... says it all really - prob another Stan alias, he talks the same junk. PMSL

Now to reality .... Icom don't charge for updates because the development they do post production release is minimal and usually bug fixes rather than major releases of functionality - so minimal cost - you can be sure if Icom created a major release for the 7300 with tons of new features they would be charging for it - go have a look at at the cost of their remote control software RSBA-1 - 100 bucks .... not free ... you can be sure if they had to put major dev into it they would be charging all right.

I've owned (and still do own some) most of the major radios from all of the Big 3 and Elecraft, bottom line is none of them release new features because they are not interested in large scale dev post production release. Even the Icom top of the line radios like 7800 7700 7600 received very few updates in their life. No/little development costs. No surprise no charge for a bug fix or minor update.

SSDR 2.0 will come at some point no doubt but at this time new features are being added under the current releases free. I have no issue paying for software updates either and working in the software industry I see the costs behind even relatively small developments so am quite happy even if it is $199 for a major x.0 release - if the feature set is right and IF the features in it are of interest to Flex users I am sure people will votes with their wallet and buy or leave it. Plenty of vendors charge for updates/support and 200 bucks in my ham radio bucket over a few years isn't worth worrying about.

But..... the 6000's are still extremely capable without 2.0 and will remain usable without it - its not going to stop working if I don't buy it.  And you really do need to get your info updated - the $199 charge has never been official and the release update costs yet to be determined or announced so as of yet its all speculation but my SmartSDR is still getting regular updates ... free :)

  
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on April 18, 2016, 02:23:11 PM
prob another Stan alias, he talks the same junk. PMSL

Now to reality .... Icom don't charge for updates because the development they do post production release is minimal and usually bug fixes rather than major releases of functionality - so minimal cost - you can be sure if Icom created a major release for the 7300 with tons of new features they would be charging for it

my SmartSDR is still getting regular updates ... free :)
 

First off, I have never needed to use an alias on Eham. I am quite proud of my opinions and since I never lie (and can prove everything I post) there is no need to hide to avoid law suits.

Second, you obviously have had your head up the Flexradio butt for far too long. Ask any Icom 7600 user about the wonderful Version 2.0 firmware update that was released in June 2015 - - about 7 years after the release of the 7600. This firmware update gave many new features to the 7600 including a waterfall. Price for update = NOTHING - FREE:

Icom 7600 Version 2.0 New Features and Improvements

    Waterfall screens, mouse operation, and other additional functions have been added to the spectrum scope.
    An APF AF Level setting has been added.
    CI-V commands for antenna control, logging software and RIT/DELTA-TX have been added.
    TX Delay (HF/50M) settings have been added to adjust the TX delay time.
    A Standby setting has been added to remotely turn ON the IC-7600 transceiver by a command from the REMOTE jack.
    "MOS-FET" is now the default value of "SEND Relay Type."


The Icom 7600 was released at about the same time (2007/8) as the Flexradio 5000. Both were  around the $3800-$4K price range. Used 7600's sell for around the $2300 range today. Flexradio 5K's can be had for under $1500 and are difficult to sell... Oh yeah don't forget to buy a obsolete Firewire card for your computer too.  :D :D :D :D :D :D

The Flexradio 5K has been out of production for years,  yet the Icom 7600 remains a popular current production radio.

Smart SDR like PSDR NEED updates because Flexradio has a history of supplying un-Baked Software that is initially lacking many basic functions. FLexradio always promises Future updates like usable NR,NB, Notch, FM mode, etc that are included on normal radios from the get go.

Icom has a history of building upon current models and making them better instead of just releasing a completely new model. Here are some of the their  models that were constantly improved thru the years: The Icom 706's, the Icom 746, the Pro, Pro II, Pro III, 7600 etc.

If Icom advertised promises like some Ham Companies (  ;)) they would already be taking orders for the Icom 7300 Pro....

Stan K9IUQ

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on April 18, 2016, 05:01:09 PM
SSDR 2.0 will come at some point no doubt but at this time new features are being added under the current releases free. 

my SmartSDR is still getting regular updates ..
  

When you neglect to post is SmartSDR was released with MANY unfulfilled promises. Basic stuff that other radios have like workable NR, NB, FM mode etc etc. Flexradio has a long history of releasing software before it is ready for Prime Time.

If Icom released a radio that did not have working NB or NR no one would buy it.

Yes the Flexradio crowd expects these basic omissions. Complain too much on the Official Forum and you will likely get banned..

I agree with you, SMartSDR gets updates and there is a VERY good reason for that. OTOH Icom tends to get things right the first time and does not expect their customers to constantly update and beta test Radio firmware/software....

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VE3YF on April 19, 2016, 04:14:39 AM
SSDR 2.0 will come at some point no doubt but at this time new features are being added under the current releases free.  

my SmartSDR is still getting regular updates ..
  

When you neglect to post is SmartSDR was released with MANY unfulfilled promises. Basic stuff that other radios have like workable NR, NB, FM mode etc etc. Flexradio has a long history of releasing software before it is ready for Prime Time.

If Icom released a radio that did not have working NB or NR no one would buy it.

Yes the Flexradio crowd expects these basic omissions. Complain too much on the Official Forum and you will likely get banned..

I agree with you, SMartSDR gets updates and there is a VERY good reason for that. OTOH Icom tends to get things right the first time and does not expect their customers to constantly update and beta test Radio firmware/software....

Stan K9IUQ

Gee Stan:

So are you saying that Icom doesn't release buggy radio's, Icom just release an update for the IC-7300 over the weekend. I think every manufacture releases radio's early to get a good jump on the market and in the end all the end users suffer until the updates resolves the problems.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on April 19, 2016, 04:26:54 AM
So are you saying that Icom doesn't release buggy radio's,

Re-Read my post, what I AM saying is:
There is a HUGE difference between fixing firmware/software Bugs like the Big 3 does and adding Missing Basic Promised Features like NR,NB, Notch, FM Mode etc....

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on April 19, 2016, 05:02:16 AM
I've owned (and still do own some) most of the major radios from all of the Big 3 and Elecraft, bottom line is none of them release new features because they are not interested in large scale dev post production release.   

This is absolutely not true about Elecraft.  It's nine years since the K3 was released and they're still adding new features.  (and fwiw, it's also not true about Ten-Tec - it's 14 years since the Orion was released and they are still adding features to new firmware releases)

Barry N1EU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on April 19, 2016, 07:09:30 PM
Seems the wildly popular IC-7300 triggered an outpouring of irrelevant flibbertygibbetry attempting to denounce a $1400 radio because it isn't a $7500 radio and can't possibly be the herald of a paradigm shift in amateur radio bent on making moot the 'black box' and introducing a tangible hardware UI console that, in the top shelf model, might very well be IP aware and 'slicy' as well.

How about comparing $1400 radios to $1400 or $1600 radios?

IC-7300 vs. TS-590SG. Any takers with both to compare?

BTW... still waiting on an IC-7300 owner to weigh in here regarding using the IF output to feed HDSDR...

 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZENKI on April 20, 2016, 03:16:07 AM
The huge amount if interest in the IC7300 is  foremost a reflection of a good price and secondly it identifies that there is huge market for  a SDR  radio with knobs, especially a direct sampling one.

 What it also demonstrates is that hams do want to adopt the direct sampling/DUC technology but they also want the package in the knobbed flavor.  This is clearly also a message to the blackbox/computer SDR radio makers that   the market is not in favor of this black box solution. This is a  message that Flexradio should heed.

Knobs and a box    with built in  pan adapter is what the market wants. I can only imagine what success Icom will have if they released a direct sampling version of something equivalent to the IC7600. Dual  receiver or dual watch in a  larger box with a 10 inch screen it would be a runaway success.   Those who are adamant that poor ergonomic radios like the K3 that lack ergonomics in a skinny or light  package is the what hams want are kidding themselves. Elecrafts latest release of a  Knobbed pod is really a reflection that  users want more knobs,  and better ergonomics. It defeats their arguments that the radio is ergonomic and has a sufficient number of knobs.  Who is even going to buy a KX3 when you can get such a good balance of features and price in the IC7300.  You would be crazy to even buy a KX3 with the associated mess of accessories.

Icom is on the right path, lets hope that they deliver on the full potential of the direct sampling/duc platform, this would include a calibrated S-meter and ultra linear  PA with no design faults or trash coming from the transmitter. If some manufacturer does not release a competing product  then Icom is going to own the ham radio market soon. Ten Tec could do something similar with the Omni 7 of they were bold, but they like turning out the most basic and ugly radios that only the mother would like!

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on April 20, 2016, 03:28:10 AM
Who is even going to buy a KX3 when you can get such a good balance of features and price in the IC7300.  You would be crazy to even buy a KX3 with the associated mess of accessories.

Did you ever hear of QRP portable operation, as in throw a small lightweight radio and battery in a pack and take a hike, possible up a mountain summit?  I believe the weight and rx current consumption of the KX3 are both about 1/6 of the IC7300.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on April 20, 2016, 03:30:54 AM
What it also demonstrates is that hams do want to adopt the direct sampling/DUC technology but they also want the package in the knobbed flavor.  This is clearly also a message to the blackbox/computer SDR radio makers that   the market is not in favor of this black box solution. This is a  message that Flexradio should heed.

Knobs and a box    with built in  pan adapter is what the market wants.

Are there indications that the Flex 6K and ANAN aren't selling well?  There could be a market for both knobbed and unknobbed.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WD5GWY on April 20, 2016, 05:09:32 AM
There is a market for both. Just as there is a market for straight keys, and paddles etc. Each manufacturer decides which market they want to target. (Or even both)
There is a market for SDR radios that use/require, an external computer and an all in one box that includes built in knobs and display. No single form of SDR satisfies the needs of both.
Good for the manufacturers and good for us, the end user.
I fail to understand the endless debate over which is better. Like cars , each can get you to your destination. You just have to get the one that meets YOUR needs. Not mine.
James
WD5GWY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: G4PNX on April 20, 2016, 07:09:54 AM
You are absolutely bang on Zenki. The 4.3 inch screen is fine for the smartfone type icons but is worse than useless, abysmal to be frank, for spectrum/waterfall use.

And how much would a 9/10 inch touchscreen and I/Q out cost...so that ops can use whatever 3rd party software and whatever size screen they want....a large bag of peanuts!!!

David
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KS4JU on April 20, 2016, 07:32:55 AM
Seems the wildly popular IC-7300 triggered an outpouring of irrelevant flibbertygibbetry attempting to denounce a $1400 radio because it isn't a $7500 radio and can't possibly be the herald of a paradigm shift in amateur radio bent on making moot the 'black box' and introducing a tangible hardware UI console that, in the top shelf model, might very well be IP aware and 'slicy' as well.

How about comparing $1400 radios to $1400 or $1600 radios?

IC-7300 vs. TS-590SG. Any takers with both to compare?

BTW... still waiting on an IC-7300 owner to weigh in here regarding using the IF output to feed HDSDR...

 

You can control the IC-7300 via Omnirig and HDSDR. However, the 12kHz of bandwidth available from the IF / USB connection is not very useful for SDR. The IF outputs main function is to provide enough bandwidth for DRM decoding. Hopefully Icom through a firmware update will make the full 1MHz IQ stream available for those who would like to use PC based SDR programs. However, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one but you never know..........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K4JK on April 20, 2016, 07:36:38 AM
The IF out is only 12 khz? Totally missed that... That's close to useless.

Was considering adding a 7300 as a backup rig but that's a deal breaker for me I think.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: IW5CI on April 20, 2016, 08:34:58 AM
It's simple.

your choice:

2 boxes that have the same performance.

1st box is useless without a personal computer.
2nd box is fully operational without any external device, but can reach all the bells and whistles of box 1 just connection a BIG screen and keyboard.
Which you choose at the same price?

box 1 is actual FLEX type sdr transceivers.
box 2 is just ICOM/YAESU/KENWOOD radios of the next years (2017 and so on).

ic-7300 is a great small radio, i will keep it forever, but in 2017 i will buy for shure IC-xxx ft-xxx TS-xxx the new middle and topclass SDR radio that will offer the same performance of a full featured old type sdr radio like FLEX (connected to a big screen and computer, ip-if multiple receivers and so on) but with the ability and the appearance of a real and beautiful knob radio.


I will never rely on a radio that need a computer to work. Power failures... viruses and simply obsolescence of drivers and operative systems will put those radios in the dustbin in a few years.

An ICOM IC-781 or Yaesu FT-1000D after 20 years from manifacturing are still good performers , perfectly usable rigs and with a remarkable used market price. I have a lot of PC hardware of just 10 years ago that is simply unusable today..

The destiny of classic SDR radio is already written. IC-7300 is just the first of a new generation of high performance and cost effective stand alone true sdr radios, more will come, and it is necessary for companies like FLEX to rethink the hardware in the direction of a stand alone radio with flex performance but also knob equipped (the maestro isn't the solution).

Remember what happended to DRAKE, COLLINS, HALLICRAFTERS, HAMMARLUND, SWAN etc... big heavy lines when a small japanese radio called FT-101 was introduced in the market... it was small, smart, all in one HF radio.... it had not the best receiver not the best performance but it was suitable for mobile and home use at a good competitive price. We know the rest of the story!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on April 20, 2016, 09:18:04 AM
I will never rely on a radio that need a computer to work. Power failures... viruses and simply obsolescence of drivers and operative systems will put those radios in the dustbin in a few years.

Another, maybe even more important fact is the steady decline of PC's. Even Intel sees the future:      http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/19/technology/intel-layoffs/

Mobile devices= good
PC's= ByeBye

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N8FNR on April 20, 2016, 09:42:56 AM
I will never rely on a radio that need a computer to work. Power failures... viruses and simply obsolescence of drivers and operative systems will put those radios in the dustbin in a few years.


So you don't want to use a PC to run your rig? What do you use to log your contacts? Do you use any apps to see where DX activity is? Do you use any digi modes like WSJT? I bet that you use a PC for a lot of shack functions now. What is so bad about using a PC that you probably already have in your shack to also control a rig?

Zack
N8FNR
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: G4PNX on April 20, 2016, 09:44:24 AM
Lets hope that Yaesu and Kenwood have finally removed their heads from a dark place and are able to offer real competition in terms of spec v price...quickly while they still have a chance at retaining some of their business.

Elad might yet steal a march on them if they are quick enough....they already have a hybrid which needs a larger colour tft screen...more knobs and new touchscreen centric software which, unlike their existing software is actually legible on a small 21 inch screen!!!

Come on Elad are you up for it???

David
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N8FNR on April 20, 2016, 09:53:41 AM
I will never rely on a radio that need a computer to work. Power failures... viruses and simply obsolescence of drivers and operative systems will put those radios in the dustbin in a few years.

Another, maybe even more important fact is the steady decline of PC's. Even Intel sees the future:      http://money.cnn.com/2016/04/19/technology/intel-layoffs/

Mobile devices= good
PC's= ByeBye

Stan K9IUQ

Nice to see that you near pathalogical hatred of Flexradio has not abated Stan! Did your mother drop a Flex rig on your head when you were young and that is why you hate then so much? Your rant against them has gone on for years. Bravo on keeping up with that! I appauld you tenacity.

I have 75,000 photos on my PC and use Lightroom and Photoshop on a regular basis. If you think that you can do manage that many photos and then edit them with a phone or tablet you will are a lot more skilled than me. There will be a market for PC's for a long time into the future. Oh and if you feel like it check out my photos on flicker. Feedback is welcomed! https://www.flickr.com/photos/10025089@N05/

N8FNR
Zack
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on April 20, 2016, 11:14:22 AM
Your rant against them has gone on for years. Bravo on keeping up with that! I appauld you tenacity.

 if you feel like it check out my photos on flicker. Feedback is welcomed! https://www.flickr.com/photos/10025089@N05/

N8FNR
Zack


Thanks Zack, I do try to keep the Flexers truthful.   ;) :D :D  :D :D

Your photos are wonderful, you have the Photographers Eye Zack.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WA2OLZ on April 20, 2016, 03:21:35 PM
So you don't want to use a PC to run your rig? What do you use to log your contacts? Do you use any apps to see where DX activity is? Do you use any digi modes like WSJT? I bet that you use a PC for a lot of shack functions now. What is so bad about using a PC that you probably already have in your shack to also control a rig?

Zack
N8FNR

A rather amusing, but true, response to the way things were for years:
What do you use to log your contacts? - A pencil and an ARRL logbook.
Do you use any apps to see where DX activity is? – Yes, a VFO
Do you use any digi modes like WSJT? – I don’t know what WSJT means. Maybe Wall Street Journal Telecommunication? Anyway, CW is digital; either on or off.

Point being, it’s best not to make assumptions about how others operate.


Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: IW5CI on April 20, 2016, 03:50:44 PM
if the Pc is offline i can use my transceiver ssb and cw and make a qso (many rigs Also support rtty and Psk directly). In case of old Sdr type radio i watch a big and black screen dumb and mute.
Pc fail more often than radios

[/quote]

So you don't want to use a PC to run your rig? What do you use to log your contacts? Do you use any apps to see where DX activity is? Do you use any digi modes like WSJT? I bet that you use a PC for a lot of shack functions now. What is so bad about using a PC that you probably already have in your shack to also control a rig?

Zack
N8FNR
[/quote]
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on April 20, 2016, 05:39:12 PM
Seems the wildly popular IC-7300 triggered an outpouring of irrelevant flibbertygibbetry attempting to denounce a $1400 radio because it isn't a $7500 radio and can't possibly be the herald of a paradigm shift in amateur radio bent on making moot the 'black box' and introducing a tangible hardware UI console that, in the top shelf model, might very well be IP aware and 'slicy' as well.

How about comparing $1400 radios to $1400 or $1600 radios?

IC-7300 vs. TS-590SG. Any takers with both to compare?

BTW... still waiting on an IC-7300 owner to weigh in here regarding using the IF output to feed HDSDR...

 

You can control the IC-7300 via Omnirig and HDSDR. However, the 12kHz of bandwidth available from the IF / USB connection is not very useful for SDR. The IF outputs main function is to provide enough bandwidth for DRM decoding. Hopefully Icom through a firmware update will make the full 1MHz IQ stream available for those who would like to use PC based SDR programs. However, I wouldn't hold my breath on that one but you never know..........

With no actual IC-7300/HDSDR user input on this point, as of yet, I would guess that the USB IF would not be capable of porting a 1MHz out. It likely appears to a PC as a 'USB Sound Device'.

That said, I've been, for years, using a 12kHz IF output from a 455kHz to 12 kHz converter on a few different radios to drive HDSDR, SoDiRa, and DReaM, all capable of demodulating high quality AM, SSB and CW through the PC (SoDiRa does AM Stereo as well), exceeding the actual radio's analog audio output quality by a seriously wide margin. It can make my FT 857D sound as good on receive as my ancient old decrepit and obsolete vintage 2012 Flex 3000 for SWL or MW, or even HF, and of course the elusive DRM broadcasts.

This may be of particular interest to anyone looking to enable a second fully featured 'receiver' in addition to the radio A and B VFO. It's not a wide panadaptor, but does show what is 6kHz on either side of your VFO, any mode. On a big computer screen. With all the HDSDR filtering capabilities. Not anything like a Flex or Anan display, but still useful.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AC7CW on April 21, 2016, 10:56:30 AM
Maybe a manufacturer can move the logging and all the adjunct software functions into a box radio? Sort of automate it maybe... Then a third party software guy can just automate the entire process and enable us to do contesting as a background task while we're barbecuing on our patio.... I'd want automatic QSL'ing at that point probably and maybe automatic updates to my QRZ page... I think I would want to be notified when I earned an award because that is something that you want to have a realtime moment with, just like the old days. Doing all that via a rented remote station makes sense, could free up space in the house and yard and keep the xyl off my back...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W2BLC on April 21, 2016, 11:23:16 AM
Not everyone wants/needs fancy logging etc.  Hence, why should they pay for stuff they have no need or desire for?

I will settle for a good rig that operates solidly - without a bunch of extra things that are better when operated on a computer.

The 7300 appears to fill the bill a the good rig. If I want spotting or logging, etc. then that will be done with a computer that is not tied to the rig.

Keep it simple and concentrate on the rig and its performance. I do not want an "does everything from RX to cooking dinner" rig. To easy for something to go wrong.

Of course, this is just my simple opinion.



Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: M0GVZ on April 23, 2016, 08:17:38 AM


Thanks Zack, I do try to keep the Flexers truthful.   ;) :D :D  :D :D



But you don't have one so have no idea what they're like. Your comments were relevant over a year ago, they've long since ceased to be and now just serve to portray you as a clueless hater.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on April 23, 2016, 01:39:08 PM
now just serve to portray you as a clueless hater.

I feel right at home with all the Clueless Flexradio Lovers..

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NI8R on April 23, 2016, 02:18:42 PM
now just serve to portray you as a clueless hater.

I feel right at home with all the Clueless Flexradio Lovers..

Stan K9IUQ



Stan , the flex is not the worse radio out there, your just struggling to find one worse :D :D :D :D :D :D


Greg ni8r
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on April 23, 2016, 05:06:50 PM
Stan , the flex is not the worse radio out there, your just struggling to find one worse :D :D :D :D :D :D
Greg ni8r

I said in a previous post that it is not the Flexradio that I dislike, it is most of the Flex Lovers and the Company's attitude that I do not like.

The present 6000 series seems like a fine radio and Flexradios have improved greatly since I owned the 5K. I only wish the Flexradio owners had improved greatly also..

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on April 24, 2016, 06:29:34 AM
5B4AIY......There's one in every crowd. I just read his 3/5 review here. He bashed the radio because it was a few Hz off and that the S meter calibration wasn't to his liking. WTF?

Get a life dude.

Ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMRADIO1 on April 24, 2016, 03:17:59 PM
5B4AIY......There's one in every crowd. I just read his 3/5 review here. He bashed the radio because it was a few Hz off and that the S meter calibration wasn't to his liking. WTF?

Get a life dude.

Ron
N4UE

5B4AIY does need to get a life. Can't believe he would report a 3/5 just because of the S meter is a little off.  Think it is time to sell your 7300.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMRADIO1 on April 24, 2016, 03:22:21 PM
5B4AIY is one of those Flex lovers.  He owns a Flex 3000, enough said.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AB4D on April 24, 2016, 03:42:34 PM
Oh NO! A 3 out of 5, the shock, the horror. OMG... ::)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on April 24, 2016, 04:12:25 PM
That's why you can take most eham.net reviews with a grain of salt. Repeated common serious issues/problems are what you should take notice of.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMRADIO1 on April 24, 2016, 04:14:26 PM
Oh NO! A 3 out of 5, the shock, the horror. OMG... ::)

Glad you agree.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on April 24, 2016, 04:26:21 PM
I certainly agree! Like the PA issues in the FT-991.

However, there's always some smart a$$ who's jealous because the 'long haired mess cook' wont let him buy a new toy. Sorry about your life.....

ha ha

ron
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0OD on April 25, 2016, 05:57:45 AM
5B4AIY......There's one in every crowd. I just read his 3/5 review here. He bashed the radio because it was a few Hz off and that the S meter calibration wasn't to his liking. WTF?
Get a life dude.
Ron
N4UE

Reviews should be subject to reviews themselves, especially when they differ wildly from the IC-7300 eHam consensus of 4.9.  

His 3/5 downgrade on a first look review of an otherwise fabulous $1,400 radio is way too harsh. Big deal if the S-meter is generous by the "standard of a 1981 Euro IARU recommendation." So is every radio I own except maybe my Flex-5000. My Kenwood TS-850 (about 1990 vintage, btw) generally measures about 3.7 dB per S unit. S-meters SHOULD be more accurate than they are, but give Icom some wiggle room a month into production.

The 39Hz frequency error 5B4AIY finds is disappointing on a modern SDR, but then he says he was able to calibrate it to 0.3Hz using the Ref Adjust. Those easily fixable shortcomings are his "two grumbles." He then goes on to like everything else about the IC-7300.

His conclusion is odd: "It won't replace my Icom IC-756 Pro-III, but we're getting there."  The Pro III cost $3,000 a decade ago and weighed >twice as much (21 lbs) as the IC-7300 (9.3 lbs).

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NW8Z on April 25, 2016, 09:01:29 AM
5B4AIY......There's one in every crowd. I just read his 3/5 review here. He bashed the radio because it was a few Hz off and that the S meter calibration wasn't to his liking. WTF?
Get a life dude.
Ron
N4UE

Reviews should be subject to reviews themselves, especially when they differ wildly from the IC-7300 eHam consensus of 4.9.  

His 3/5 downgrade on a first look review of an otherwise fabulous $1,400 radio is way too harsh. Big deal if the S-meter is generous by the "standard of a 1981 Euro IARU recommendation." So is every radio I own except maybe my Flex-5000. My Kenwood TS-850 (about 1990 vintage, btw) generally measures about 3.7 dB per S unit. S-meters SHOULD be more accurate than they are, but give Icom some wiggle room a month into production.

The 39Hz frequency error 5B4AIY finds is disappointing on a modern SDR, but then he says he was able to calibrate it to 0.3Hz using the Ref Adjust. Those easily fixable shortcomings are his "two grumbles." He then goes on to like everything else about the IC-7300.

His conclusion is odd: "It won't replace my Icom IC-756 Pro-III, but we're getting there."  The Pro III cost $3,000 a decade ago and weighed >twice as much (21 lbs) as the IC-7300 (9.3 lbs).




Or the ham that gave the IC 7300 a 4 rating the other day because it doesn't have two jacks on the back.  One for HF and the other for VHF.    He knew this before he bought the rig.   It's irritating, but it's their right to not like something.   I say give the IC 7300 some time. If it's found to have issues that you would like to see Icom remedy, then give them some time to do so.  Also, the pro III is a nice transceiver but given the choice, I will stick with my 7300!!    I used to own the Pro II.   I agree that you just have to look between the reviews to know if a certain rig is for you or not.   Perfectionists are ALWAYS going to find fault in everything.  As he said, it's just what they do!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0OD on April 25, 2016, 09:50:18 AM
Quote
"The 39Hz frequency error 5B4AIY finds is disappointing on a modern SDR, but then he says he was able to calibrate it to 0.3Hz using the Ref Adjust. Those easily fixable shortcomings are his "two grumbles."

Has anyone tried a IC-7300 in a Frequency Measuring Test yet or some other such standard? Once calibrated on say 10 MHz how well does the calibration track on other bands? My Flex-5000 has spoiled me in that way. It would usually measure within about 0.3 Hz too, as determined by its built-in scope.

I'm curious what the state of the art is now.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on April 25, 2016, 11:28:00 AM
NW8Z, hi.

I have a lot of radios, I just like collecting them. I have Collins, Drake (22), complete Yaesu and Kenwood stations and a LOT of Icoms. No brag, just setting the bar.
I used to travel to Tokyo a lot. I purchased my 756PRO the week they were announced. I enjoy the heck out of it. I don't use many of it's features, it's the first radio I turn on every day.
My only 'criticism' of the 756PRO is the noise blanker.
I suffer from occasional power line noise here. Sometimes its S-9+, but only bothers me on 6 Meters.
Think of a comb with the teeth facing up!
The NB in the pro can't touch it. However, when the spacing between the noise spike separates a bit, the PRO can make them S-0. With that close spacing, there probably aren't too many NB that would help. There wouldn't be any signal left......
I understand Icom improved the NB in the II and III. Just evolution.
To be honest, I haven't tried the NB in the 7300, too many things to do first.

You can bet the way this radio is being accepted, that it's 'big brothers' will be coming along, and I'll be the first in line. ha ha

have fun

ron
hamming for 55 years
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NW8Z on April 25, 2016, 08:26:14 PM
NW8Z, hi.

I have a lot of radios, I just like collecting them. I have Collins, Drake (22), complete Yaesu and Kenwood stations and a LOT of Icoms. No brag, just setting the bar.
I used to travel to Tokyo a lot. I purchased my 756PRO the week they were announced. I enjoy the heck out of it. I don't use many of it's features, it's the first radio I turn on every day.
My only 'criticism' of the 756PRO is the noise blanker.
I suffer from occasional power line noise here. Sometimes its S-9+, but only bothers me on 6 Meters.
Think of a comb with the teeth facing up!
The NB in the pro can't touch it. However, when the spacing between the noise spike separates a bit, the PRO can make them S-0. With that close spacing, there probably aren't too many NB that would help. There wouldn't be any signal left......
I understand Icom improved the NB in the II and III. Just evolution.
To be honest, I haven't tried the NB in the 7300, too many things to do first.

You can bet the way this radio is being accepted, that it's 'big brothers' will be coming along, and I'll be the first in line. ha ha

have fun

ron
hamming for 55 years

You too Ron,

The Icom IC-7300 is a blast for sure!!   The NB is wonderful!  So good that I sold my external Noise filter the AM Comm Clearspeech!!


73

John
NW8Z
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on May 02, 2016, 04:21:28 PM
Stan , the flex is not the worse radio out there, your just struggling to find one worse :D :D :D :D :D :D
Greg ni8r

I said in a previous post that it is not the Flexradio that I dislike, it is most of the Flex Lovers and the Company's attitude that I do not like.

The present 6000 series seems like a fine radio and Flexradios have improved greatly since I owned the 5K. I only wish the Flexradio owners had improved greatly also..

Stan K9IUQ


Hey Stan:    Thanks for all the free entertainment.  I have been reading this with thread with interest, and thanks to you, plenty of amusement too :-)      But I do have some serious questions, since I am curious about purchasing my first SDR radio;

A.  In another part of the thread, you mention that the 7300 is just the beginning, and in short order we will have x, y, and z.   This is always true.  Product development has never stopped.   Are you advocating that I wait 3 years for the higher end SDR from ICOM, Kenwood, or Yaesu, or that in the mean time, if I want an SDR, I can go ahead and buy a Flex or an ICOM 7300?   Waiting can be a trap where you NEVER get to actually DO the hobby.  Because in 3 years when the next great radio is coming out, there is yet another better new thing in the pipeline being created.  Wait, rinse, repeat, wait, rinse, repeat.  Never ever actually get there....   :-(

B.  You indicate that buying a flex at this point would be unwise.   Is that for everyone, or just for you specifically?
For example, if I buy a flex 6300, which is a fine radio and works great right now today, what if Flex goes away in a few years?   Well, it will still work fine for me.     How about your Samsung smart phone?   Even though Samsung has not gone out of business, approx. 12 to 14 months after you get your shiney new phone, they stop firmware updates and move on to the next wonderful model.  But.....   My phone still works.   If a Flex 6300 were to meet my needs in 2016, and worked during the first month, I am good to go.   If instead an Icom 7300 met my needs, and apparently it does for a lot of people, great.  No worries.   So I don't understand why buying a Flex at this point would be unwise for all.  That is a fairly broad sweeping generalization, and I can't be a "Flex Hugger" since I don't even own one :-)

I bought a Yaesu FT-DX3000 a few months ago.  Many of you would argue that this was stupid on my part, because
SDR is here.   Hey, it was not stupid.   I have had more fun in those last 3 months, learned a HUGE amount, talked to
over 35 countires, made W.A.S., and had many many smiles.    If that was stupid, I give up.
I don't wish to waste my years away holding off buying because tomorrow something better will be announced and sold.
By that logic, you would never ever buy a car either. :-)

So maybe I will buy an Icom 7300 to play with.   Maybe I will buy a Flex 6300.  Don't know yet.
But neither one will be an unwise purchase if I have fun with it and learn some new things.
To each their own.

C.  What is it about the company's attitude that you don't like?  As a possible customer, I would be
interested in that.

Have a cold beer, take a chill-pill, or both.

Cheers,

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on May 02, 2016, 04:31:31 PM
Have a cold beer, take a chill-pill, or both.

You need to take your own advice.

My advice: As a SDR newbie, you should believe little that comes from any forum, especially a forum that is populated with SDR owners. As a SDR newbie you do not yet have the necessary knowledge to know the truth from B.S.

FWIW my beer days are in the past and if I chill out anymore I would be in the Cemetery...  ;) :D

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on May 02, 2016, 04:46:13 PM
C.  What is it about the company's attitude that you don't like?  As a possible customer, I would be
interested in that.

My whole sordid Flexradio story was documented here on the eHam SDR Forum 5-6 years ago. It is a very disturbing story which would give any wantabee Flex customer pause. My long Flexradio journey, especially the 160/80 mtr xmit spur debacle, cost Flexradio many customers.

I am not going to repeat all of the things that were done to me by Flexers and the Company that nurtured my present "Attitude". Trust me, there are many excellent provable reasons for my "Attutude"

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6BRN on May 02, 2016, 06:11:17 PM
Hi Stan:

I saw Neal's (N6YFM) post and just HAD to chime in.

First, Neal clearly needs a beer - no argument there!  Maybe two.. In fact, I'll join him.

But... sorry to say... DSP radios (SDR in the technically incorrect lingo of the amateur community) are not only moving in, they are here to stay.  Just like solid state power amplifiers.  I've been designing, marketing and delivering DSP systems for more than 30 years (yes, I'm an antique) - from since they were science fiction - and although I've done my best to retire, the industry keeps dragging me back.  Because everybody is going digital.  So what?  Just a baseline for what follows...

(This is not a paid advertisement)  The upper end FlexRadios are well engineered equipment, at the electronic and algorithmic levels.  They are doing all the right things - high sampling rates with a good ADC, relatively high speed/high capacity Xilinx FPGAs for capable front-end processing before down-conversion/decimation and back-end (SDR) processing by programmable DSP, real sampling vs. crummy I/Q sampling, lots of oversampling gain.  And their algorithms work - well designed filter functions with none of the dumb ringing found in early amateur offerings.  FlexRadio sets the standard for quality and capability IMHO.  Which is why they are expensive - few compromises.  But... their product looks and acts more like a ...computer... than a traditional radio.  The expensive Maestro front panel is interesting, but does not scream "I'm simple!  Use me!"  So, while FlexRadio has captured a decent market segment, their sales are probably not what the owners had hoped (i.e., explosive).  I sincerely hope their government business is bringing in a good cash flow - because they have a very good development and support team I highly respect, and it deserves to prosper.

(This is not a paid advertisement, either) Enter Icom and the IC-7300.  I've looked at this little jewel.  It is a brilliant work of engineering, ergonomic and marketing appeal design.  And its not the best at ANYTHING it does (Take THAT, Rob Sherwood!).  But its very good at most everything MOST people tend to care about.  Its a compact, decent performing radio with self-explanatory context-sensitive menus and some of the "bling" features amateurs are lusting after:  Very intuitive to use (even by old-timers), quiet receiver, a good and usable multi-purpose spectrum scope, very effective digital noise reduction, ready to integrate with your PC but stands alone just as easily, in an affordable price class and ZERO expensive extras (i.e.no hidden costs), includes voice output and recording (and with a simple SD card interface, GASP!).  Somebody at Icom had THIS vision of an HF amateur radio and was hit over the head with the common wisdom that it would be too expensive.  But that person(s) stuck with their goals... and compromised brilliantly.  Bravo!  Compromise is an art few appreciate.

Yes, the IC-7300 has quite a few compromises, generally in areas people are don't care about... at the moment.  First, Icom used a slower ADC and less capable Actel FPGA for front end processing.  Which means less processing gain, especially at higher frequencies and less room for improvement in the future.  Slower sampling means 6M is a bit quirky - did you notice the alias terms exclusion they've quoted for this band?  And its overall performance on 6M is "just OK" otherwise, by their specs.  And lower down, it does not match FlexRadio's best-in-class performance and has to lean more on good-old analog front-end filtering (all included - no extra charge) than processing gain.  But its pretty good, and costs just a bit more than the Maestro front panel for the FlexRadios.  The IC-7300 is also missing multiple antenna output/input ports, shares audio and IF outputs, has just a few knobs, just one real readout (with touch screen to eliminate knobs, save space and cost)...etc.  Compare that to a Yaesu FTdx3000 (which I own), with its several hundred item menu, in no particular order, which has several settings that simply do not work, but has three (3) antenna ports, two displays, a plethora of I/O and enough knobs, buttons and illogical memories to build a Mensa IQ test out of.  Its technically a very good radio and performs well - but its, well, ugly, from an ergonomics standpoint (IMnsHO).  The Yaesu makes smart people look stupid as they try and figure out its 20th/21st century blend of controls designed by the IT department, while the Icom IC-7300 ...just walks users through what makes sense.

So Icom has turned out real winner - today.  They've effectively proved that a (mostly) pure DSP radio can be very capable, cost effective and easy to use... by everybody.  And that is their  real achievement.  Digital technology still advances much faster than analog designs, so we, as users, can look forward to some remarkable capabilities in the future.  Lets hope that ergonomic design and intelligent, context sensitive menus remain a priority, too, so that we don't have to dig into Menu Item #6248 to set parameter sub-item 64 to F378 hex, to activate VFO-B.

In closing this off-the-wall rant, it seems obvious that the IC-7300s now being purchased in droves will inevitably hit the used market hard in just a few years.  Why? Well, perhaps one owner will say... as he/she trades it in... "Yeah, its a great little radio, but doesn't have the adaptive RF linearization I REALLY want.  And the NEW 7400 works so well on "REMOTE" with my Samcroon smart phone.  I just have to let it go."

In the mean time... we all benefit, but for competing providers of DSP (SDR) and conventional radios... its one of those Darwin moments.  Adapt or... 

Best Regards,

Brian K6BRN
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W6RZ on May 03, 2016, 02:59:57 AM
Slower sampling means 6M is a bit quirky - did you notice the alias terms exclusion they've quoted for this band?

Can you point us to the document you saw this 6-meter aliasing info in? Also, it's using an Altera FPGA, not Actel.

Ron W6RZ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6BRN on May 03, 2016, 07:08:35 AM
Hi Ron:

The ADC alias product warning is in the on-line Icom product brochure for the IC-7300 under Receiver:  Spurious and Image Ratio.

Regarding Altera FPGAs, you are correct, when writing the rant above I transposed names.   Ooops!  But Altera FPGA capability is well below Xilinx in terms of speed and density, and is less expensive  as well.  Even less expensive to implement in hardware if the anti-fuse parts are used.  No external ROM and configuration manager (I did not check the part number BTW).  So same observation applies.  These are not bad or cheap parts, just less expensive and less capable.

Brian - K6BRN
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KD8TUT on May 03, 2016, 07:36:55 AM
Hi Ron:

The ADC alias product warning is in the on-line Icom product brochure for the IC-7300 under Receiver:  Spurious and Image Ratio.

Regarding Altera FPGAs, you are correct, when writing the rant above I transposed names.   Ooops!  But Altera FPGA capability is well below Xilinx in terms of speed and density, and is less expensive  as well.  Even less expensive to implement in hardware if the anti-fuse parts are used.  No external ROM and configuration manager (I did not check the part number BTW).  So same observation applies.  These are not bad or cheap parts, just less expensive and less capable.

Brian - K6BRN

As an aside: That's a pretty difficult generalization to make.

Number of logic elements, internal frequencies, and benchmarking methods are all important. Including optimizations used in certain related tools.

The elusive "performance crown" is a red herring between these two companies since the differences are marginal. Especially since the only measure of performance are artificial benchmarks- because most of the time the chips never see the same application and the coding is so different.

So claiming superiority based on the FPGA *brand* is a little difficult to do since the decisions to use either flavor are usually the nit-picky engineering decisions which rarely make a difference to a consumer- except in the cost/performance arena.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W2BLC on May 03, 2016, 12:04:47 PM
Why all the worry about only a single antenna switch?  You can buy multi-port antenna switches all over the place - with lightning protection (static discharge), self grounding, etc.  What is the big deal?

A little more - the 7300 allows an inexpensive entry into the world of SDR and provides great visual feedback and a panoramic too boot! Sure, it is an entry level rig, but what percentage of hams are quite happy with their entry level rigs.

And - - - for the price of an entry level rig, the 7300 provides high dollar performance - so says Sherwood.

No computer is needed to operate the 7300 - just 12 Volts and an antenna.

No extras to buy and install/pay to be installed - everything is already in the 7300.

Sounds like a good deal to me.



Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6BRN on May 03, 2016, 12:42:21 PM
Michael:

Please look up the definition of "Gadfly".

I don't just do this for fun, and said so.  I develop products using Xilinx, Altera, Actel, ASICs and a variety of other parts, and have been doing this for a very long time.  The designs are always to a cost/schedule/capability point.  And my comments are based on actual experience with current and relevant parts.  Most often Actel for glue functions (least challenging), Altera (moderately demanding) for control functions and Xilinx for DSP (most challenging).  I've had many discussions with the vendors regarding their broad variety of often misleading metrics for density, speed and power.  But after logic design, layout and timing closure on many, many complex devices, and costing the final product out with many mixes, in many trades, this is my experience.

Brian - K6BRN
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on May 03, 2016, 01:25:22 PM
A little more - the 7300 allows an inexpensive entry into the world of SDR and provides great visual feedback and a panoramic too boot! Sure, it is an entry level rig, but what percentage of hams are quite happy with their entry level rigs.

Well said.  It's billed as 'entry level' but from user reports it seems to do what it does very well.  Compared to what I spent in '85 for my TS-940 or 10 years ago for an IC-756-ProIII, especially when adjusted for inflation, the 7300 is an amazing deal.  For an even more dramatic comparison, consider what we paid back in the day for Collins or EF Johnson gear, and what we got for our money compared to the 7300.  And the 7300 weighs 9 pounds and doesn't take up a whole table.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KD8TUT on May 03, 2016, 02:32:53 PM
Michael:

Please look up the definition of "Gadfly".

I don't just do this for fun, and said so.  I develop products using Xilinx, Altera, Actel, ASICs and a variety of other parts, and have been doing this for a very long time.  The designs are always to a cost/schedule/capability point.  And my comments are based on actual experience with current and relevant parts.  Most often Actel for glue functions (least challenging), Altera (moderately demanding) for control functions and Xilinx for DSP (most challenging).  I've had many discussions with the vendors regarding their broad variety of often misleading metrics for density, speed and power.  But after logic design, layout and timing closure on many, many complex devices, and costing the final product out with many mixes, in many trades, this is my experience.

Brian - K6BRN

Edit:

Ok. Sorry for annoying you.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W4JCK on May 03, 2016, 04:00:38 PM
So you don't want to use a PC to run your rig? What do you use to log your contacts? Do you use any apps to see where DX activity is? Do you use any digi modes like WSJT? I bet that you use a PC for a lot of shack functions now. What is so bad about using a PC that you probably already have in your shack to also control a rig?

Zack
N8FNR

A rather amusing, but true, response to the way things were for years:
What do you use to log your contacts? - A pencil and an ARRL logbook.
Do you use any apps to see where DX activity is? – Yes, a VFO
Do you use any digi modes like WSJT? – I don’t know what WSJT means. Maybe Wall Street Journal Telecommunication? Anyway, CW is digital; either on or off.

Point being, it’s best not to make assumptions about how others operate.




Too good!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5MF on May 03, 2016, 05:44:26 PM
Ok, I am being serious because I don't know the answers.  But, I don't see the benefits of a touch screen on such a small screen.  Are there any real benefits to having it?  I also don't see the benefit of a panadapter on such a small screen.  Is it really useable?  Finally, I don't know SDR that well, so is there a benefit to having SDR in the radio if you don't run it in SDR software?  I realize modifications and updates are much easier to do, but to me, and I may be wrong, the lure of SDR is having it up on a big screen with lots of bells and whistles.  I would like to be educated please on what is so great about SDR in the box.  I own a KX3 which I know is SDR in a box but I bought it for its portability and low power draw, not because it is SDR.  I turn it on and operate it like a conventional radio. Thanks!

Tom/K5MF
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on May 03, 2016, 07:53:54 PM
the answer is, panadapter or not, the SDR guts are reportedly higher performance than the equivalently priced 'traditional' rig, in typical use. Just like the Elecraft. That's all you need to consider. 'SDR' as a term, does not denote 'panadapter' as a requirement. Elad has no native panadapter screen, but triggers profuse salivation amongst its proponents. It is a full SDR.

Whether or not the small touchscreen is as usable as a computer monitor is irrelevant to the performance gain, dollar for dollar.

From what has been posted so far, it appears the 7300 holds its own with SIMILARLY PRICED RIGS. That's the important piece.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6BRN on May 03, 2016, 08:05:43 PM
Michael:

No worries.  Sorry for the too-sharp response.

Brian - K6BRN
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6BRN on May 03, 2016, 08:32:07 PM
Tom:

Three benefits to the touch screen...  First, it facilitates use of context-sensitive menus - the on-screen button changes and is appropriately marked for each function as the user steps down into it - just tap and go, never too many choices.  Second, it eliminates a host of physical controls (fixed buttons and knobs) on the radio face, reducing cost.  Three, it allows Icom to modify or add to control options during the product life cycle and have those new controls be appropriately marked and logically/easily accessed  through firmware changes only.

Icom did some credible human-processor interface design work and the IC-7300 touch screen menu system is pretty intuitive.  I recently watched as two older operators sat down with the radio, no manual, and within a few minutes were working their way through various modes and functions with little problem.  I was impressed.

Could the interface and spectrum scope be bigger and better.  Yes.  I'm sure a future offering, probably at a higher price point, will have a bigger/better display, probably an HDMI output as well, and maybe good USB/GUI applications (possibly 3rd party) for PCs.  The best of both worlds.

Brian - K6BRN

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W6RZ on May 04, 2016, 04:17:39 AM
Hi Ron:

The ADC alias product warning is in the on-line Icom product brochure for the IC-7300 under Receiver:  Spurious and Image Ratio.

Thanks, I see it now. Since the IC-7300 ADC sampling rate is 124.032 Msps, the alias for 50 to 54 MHz would fall at 70.032 to 74.032 MHz. The more popular low end of the band from 50.0 to 50.2 MHz would fall at 73.832 to 74.032 MHz, which is a radio astronomy band in the US (73 to 74.6 MHz). So at least in the US, phantom signals on 6-meters from aliasing would not seem to be much of an issue.

Regarding Altera FPGAs, you are correct, when writing the rant above I transposed names.   Ooops!  But Altera FPGA capability is well below Xilinx in terms of speed and density, and is less expensive  as well.  Even less expensive to implement in hardware if the anti-fuse parts are used.  No external ROM and configuration manager (I did not check the part number BTW).  So same observation applies.  These are not bad or cheap parts, just less expensive and less capable.

The IC-7300 uses an Altera EP4CE55F23I7N Cyclone IV FPGA, which is $173 in single quantities. Probably just about the right size for a single slice receiver.

Ron W6RZ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NK2F on May 04, 2016, 05:14:45 AM
Tom:

Three benefits to the touch screen...  First, it facilitates use of context-sensitive menus - the on-screen button changes and is appropriately marked for each function as the user steps down into it - just tap and go, never too many choices.  Second, it eliminates a host of physical controls (fixed buttons and knobs) on the radio face, reducing cost.  Three, it allows Icom to modify or add to control options during the product life cycle and have those new controls be appropriately marked and logically/easily accessed  through firmware changes only.

Icom did some credible human-processor interface design work and the IC-7300 touch screen menu system is pretty intuitive.

IMHO, the touch screen is NOT needed for context-sensitive menus as demonstrated by the other Icoms that have flex keys under the display. Ditto for adding functionality. The real benefit is cost reduction by eliminating mechanical buttons.

Honestly, I don't find the touch interface that great from ergonomics perspective. As a contester, I pay attention to every motion/action I take while operating. The 7300 feels a bit strange and somewhat slower than my 756P3 and 7600. Somehow actions take more taps or a slower. For example, tapping the filter button on the 756P3/7600 is much quicker than tapping the equivalent button on the screen. One possible explanation is that with the touch screen I have to be more precise and actually look at the radio. I can't really imagine operating the 7300 without looking at it.

By the way, this issue is not unique to ham radio. I used to be a heavy Blackberry users and could type without looking at the device (while driving). This is no longer possible on my iPhone or any other touch screen device.

Most hams likely will not notice such minor ergonomics issues.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3HEE on May 04, 2016, 07:56:32 AM
Any CW ops using this rig ?  Why did ICOM use a mechanical relay instead of quiet solid state TR switching ? 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NK2F on May 04, 2016, 08:11:50 AM
Any CW ops using this rig ?  Why did ICOM use a mechanical relay instead of quiet solid state TR switching ? 

I am using it. As I always use headphones the relay clicks don't bother me.

Narrow CW filters are amazing. Unlike the 756P3 and 7600 marrow filters (less than 250 Hz), the new filters do not ring at all. Combine them with the audio bandpass filter (mine is 200 Hz wide) and you have great CW experience.

That said, the true battle test will be the upcoming CQ WPX CW contest.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6BRN on May 04, 2016, 11:24:27 PM
Ron:

Yes, 6M will not be much of a problem - particularly since 6M openings are dwindling to zip.  And when 6M comes up again, the radio will be obsolete.

Icom made the right compromises.  More importantly, they achieved an amateur DSP (SDR) radio that is relatively affordable, easy to use, works in a familiar way and does not look/feel like it was put together in somebody's garage.  Its a first,

Brian -  K6BRN
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6BRN on May 04, 2016, 11:37:51 PM
Phil (NK2F):

Quite a few people really like the IC-7300 touch screen - taste varies.  But I never thought of it as a serious contest radio.  Its much too inexpensive for that.  :)

Looking forward to its big brother, though.  Soon.

Brian - K6BRN
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NK2F on May 05, 2016, 04:18:01 AM
Phil (NK2F):

Quite a few people really like the IC-7300 touch screen - taste varies.  But I never thought of it as a serious contest radio.  Its much too inexpensive for that.

Brian - K6BRN

What does price have to do with fit for contesting? In fact, I'd argue that the 7300 is ideal for a well equipped SO2R or M/S station...assuming I find out during WPX CW that the receiver is junk.

What is being described as a disadvantage of the 7300 is the lack of RX antenna input. I couldn't care less as my antenna switching system allows any radio to listen to any available RX or TX antenna. Adding a RX antenna input to the 7300 makes no difference to me.

Similarly, every radio is protected by band pass filters to avoid intra-station interference.  Again, in my case, WPX CW will show if the 7300 is a good fit.

In other words, don't let the low price fool you.  Assuming performance is not degraded during a contest with crowded bands, the 7300 has the potential to be a great radio for properly designed SO2R or M/S contest station.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on May 05, 2016, 06:14:04 AM
I'd argue that the 7300 is ideal for a well equipped SO2R or M/S station...assuming I find out during WPX CW that the receiver is junk.
I would think that the IC7300 susceptibility to overload makes it non-ideal for multi-transmitter environments.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NK2F on May 05, 2016, 06:46:42 AM
I'd argue that the 7300 is ideal for a well equipped SO2R or M/S station...assuming I find out during WPX CW that the receiver is junk.
I would think that the IC7300 susceptibility to overload makes it non-ideal for multi-transmitter environments.

As I wrote, each IC7300 is front-ended with BPFs, Hamation in my case. Similarly, all amps are followed by high power BPFs and stubs...which is a typical setup regardless of what transceiver is being used. In the described SO2R and M/S use cases, you won't have two 7300s on the same band.

Intra-station interference should be actively managed thru proper RF grounding, RX and TX filtering, common mode choking, use of resonant antennas, antenna separation, etc. The radio alone is no panacea.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on May 13, 2016, 12:44:04 PM
Not to flog a dead equine, but in addition to the 7300 comments posted here and in the reviews section, there are some great comments about the radio in the Yahoo 7300 users group.

Other than being too dumb to figure out how to update the firmware (finally figured it out), I'm enjoying mine.
Great radio on all the recent 6 Meter e-skip...

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3HEE on May 31, 2016, 05:50:36 AM
Any reports of how the 7300 performed in CQ WPX CW this past weekend ? 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on May 31, 2016, 08:58:42 AM
I'd argue that the 7300 is ideal for a well equipped SO2R or M/S station...assuming I find out during WPX CW that the receiver is junk.
I would think that the IC7300 susceptibility to overload makes it non-ideal for multi-transmitter environments.

As I wrote, each IC7300 is front-ended with BPFs, Hamation in my case. Similarly, all amps are followed by high power BPFs and stubs...which is a typical setup regardless of what transceiver is being used. In the described SO2R and M/S use cases, you won't have two 7300s on the same band.

Intra-station interference should be actively managed thru proper RF grounding, RX and TX filtering, common mode choking, use of resonant antennas, antenna separation, etc. The radio alone is no panacea.

Good point, same holds true for all radios not just the 7300.  There's just no substitute for good station engineering.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on May 31, 2016, 09:06:04 AM
Well I see that one of the more recent 'reviews' here on eHam has a bunch of complaints about the single antenna port, small screen, noisy receiver, etc.
Even stated he needed two hands to use some functions.

Ya just can't fix STUPID!!!

ha ha

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMRADIO1 on May 31, 2016, 12:53:23 PM
Well I see that one of the more recent 'reviews' here on eHam has a bunch of complaints about the single antenna port, small screen, noisy receiver, etc.
Even stated he needed two hands to use some functions.

Ya just can't fix STUPID!!!

ha ha

ron
N4UE

I bet you feel good about that too. Gives you justification for overpaying for that Flex. Flex knows all about fixing STUPID. They are so behind on STUPID fix updates because of that overprice Maestro that owners are bailing out and selling their Flex.  Just look at the Flex Community and see the comments about people bailing.  Better do it now before that bottom falls out of resale prices.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9ZW on May 31, 2016, 01:53:46 PM
Well I see that one of the more recent 'reviews' here on eHam has a bunch of complaints about the single antenna port, small screen, noisy receiver, etc.
Even stated he needed two hands to use some functions.

Ya just can't fix STUPID!!!

ha ha

ron
N4UE

I bet you feel good about that too. Gives you justification for overpaying for that Flex. Flex knows all about fixing STUPID. They are so behind on STUPID fix updates because of that overprice Maestro that owners are bailing out and selling their Flex.  Just look at the Flex Community and see the comments about people bailing.  Better do it now before that bottom falls out of resale prices.


I see some folk upgrading and on UK chap who hasn't been happy from day one who says he is selling his 6500, but won't say how much he wants.

Kind of a small exodus, wouldn't you say?! 

BTW got some time with a IC-7300 but the bands sucked when I was on.

I expected more, but then again it would be "more" for a lot of users. 

73

Steve
K9ZW
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on May 31, 2016, 04:10:00 PM

BTW got some time with a IC-7300
73

Steve
K9ZW

Yeah right, did you have W9OY's "This Buddy" guy let you try one out?   ;) :D :D :D :D :D

BTW I got some time with a Flexradio 6500 and and it did not change my mind. If it requires a computer or $1200 Maestro to operate it ain't gonna be in my shack. YMMV.  :D :D :D :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3RSW on June 01, 2016, 07:23:28 AM
Stan,  cawmon man, you've got a qs1r just like mine in your shack used as a receiver off the t/r relay of at least two rigs.  You have at least two monitors, a k3 pan, etc. and probably at least two gen. Purpose computers running all at the same time, so a 6500 on one of those computers is a no brainer. You really need to stick to Germaine arguments.  ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 01, 2016, 08:38:56 AM
Stan,  cawmon man, you've got a qs1r just like mine in your shack used as a receiver off the t/r relay of at least two rigs.  You have at least two monitors, a k3 pan, etc. and probably at least two gen. Purpose computers running all at the same time, so a 6500 on one of those computers is a no brainer. You really need to stick to Germaine arguments.  ;D

Yeah but my QS1R is passive. I use it for Cw Skimmer Server feeding spots to my logger LOG4OM and when in pileups I use the QS1R as a panafall with HDSDR software. I do not control my Icom 7600 with a computer and do not want to. I want and use knobs to control my radio. At this time I have only  the 7600 as a rig. I am however in the market for another rig. I like to have more than one radio. No, I am NOT in the market for a Flexradio or Anan. I never want to control a radio with a computer again. The Flex 5000 I owned ruined me for SDRs controlled by a computer.

I may get a Icom 7300 once the price goes down a bit. Icom has a history  of rebates after the intial excitement  dies off on a new radio. I learned this the hard way when I bought a Icom 7100 at $1500, now at $1000.

If every knobbed radio had a decent panafall the interest in SDR would wane. The big attraction for SDR's is the panafall.

No normal ham needs umpteen number of slices or receivers. Any more that 2 receivers in a radio is a waste of $$$$ for normal hams. Notice I say normal hams. I do not consider most FLexers to be Normal....  :D :D

BTW is Germaine your wife?  ;)

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WD5GWY on June 01, 2016, 10:18:54 AM
I learned the hard way about buying in early with the 7100 as well. I cannot (so far) find a good spot to install it in my current truck. When I bought it, I was driving a 2004 Western Star. Nice FLAT top dash for the control head. My boss decided I needed to switch trucks. A 2005 Peterbilt. Big SLOOPED dash. No easy place to mount the control head. So, I have a new, in the box, (only open ed to test the radio) ICOM 7100 that I paid almost $1,500.00 for including tax.
I understand your reason for holding off on the 7300 well!
James
WD5GWY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3RSW on June 01, 2016, 11:26:54 AM
Quote
BTW is Germaine your wife?  Wink

No, but I wish she was..   ;D    (no not really, I love her dearly)

Ipad does strange things to spelling.   Now I know why "she" was capitalized.
==On one of the shack computers now.  Texting goes so much smoother down here, so much more germane.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3HEE on June 02, 2016, 06:21:40 AM
IC-7300 Tuning Around WPX Contest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HE7N3VhPg4
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 02, 2016, 09:27:44 AM
IC-7300 Tuning Around WPX Contest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HE7N3VhPg4

Very nice.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on June 02, 2016, 12:02:32 PM
IC-7300 Tuning Around WPX Contest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HE7N3VhPg4

Sounds good.  Sounds/looks like a nice rig. 

I also like the way the interface expands the thing you've touched if it's something that needs fine adjustment. 

I'm looking forward to some reports of how the IC-7300 holds up in a Field Day scenario with other transmitters nearby, but whether it handles that or not, it seems to do fine at home.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on June 02, 2016, 08:18:41 PM
Steve's videos are a telling real life comparison of the IC-7300 to a much more expensive radio  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85wvhriXPmM
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 03, 2016, 04:40:18 AM
Steve's videos are a telling real life comparison of the IC-7300 to a much more expensive radio  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85wvhriXPmM

I have watched many of these 7300 comparisons including the above links. The 7300 does very well, which I think is one reason why Icom is selling 7300's as fast as they can make em....

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 03, 2016, 09:06:24 AM
I find it astounding and amusing how everyone immediately wants to compare their four, five, and six thousand dollar radios against a fifteen hundred dollar entry level radio.  I watched the video and I was unimpressed since the entry level radio had it's weak signal hands tied behind it's back and a simple flip of the pre-amp would have pulled the weak signal out of the noise 

Mr. Ellington's video serves no practical purpose for half a dozen reasons not the least of which is that there really was not that much difference between the two radios.  But comparing a forty five hundred dollar contest radio against an entry level radio??  Please... ::)   
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N8CM on June 03, 2016, 09:43:14 AM
It's a new radio, and it's obvious it's not up to par for some individuals.  To those I say, don't buy it. It's an entry level SDR radio at a reasonable price. Can't own a Ferrari on Ford Focus budget.  I bought one, sure there are things that I would have like to have seen on it, but then that jacks up the price and moves into a segment maybe some people cannot afford. 

There will always be that group of people who expect every gadget and geegaw on their radio and want it for a ridiculously low price. It's not going to happen. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on June 03, 2016, 10:09:00 AM
I have more than a few radios from all mfgs. I've been pretty impressed by the 7300 compared to the high end jobs. I don't understand all the fanboys and haters.
This is supposed to be a fun hobby. Chill out, gang. It's an ENTRY level radio.

Having said that, I am eagerly awaiting what an Icom $4500 SDR would be capable of...... These are indeed exciting times.

Ron
N4UE

hamming for 50 years+
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on June 03, 2016, 11:38:57 AM
I find it astounding and amusing how everyone immediately wants to compare their four, five, and six thousand dollar radios against a fifteen hundred dollar entry level radio.  I watched the video and I was unimpressed since the entry level radio had it's weak signal hands tied behind it's back and a simple flip of the pre-amp would have pulled the weak signal out of the noise 

Mr. Ellington's video serves no practical purpose for half a dozen reasons not the least of which is that there really was not that much difference between the two radios.  But comparing a forty five hundred dollar contest radio against an entry level radio??  Please... ::)   

I watched Mr. Ellington's "Tuning around the CQ WPX" video (not a comparison to another radio), and I couldn't disagree more.

I've been a ham since 1959, a fairly accomplished CW op in major contests, and spent 31 hours in this year's CQ WPX CW contest. Operating an Icom 7600 with a compromised antenna in an HOA community, I scored a "respectable" 1 million+  points on over 1,000 QSO's in generally crappy propagation from Arizona. So I think I'm qualified to comment on what I heard in the video with him tuning around 40 meters during the contest.

I don't know where Steve is located (couldn't find him on qrz.com), but the atmospheric noise level out here on 40M was horrible. For a $1,500 radio, the sensitivity, signal to noise ratio, filtering ability, and the distinct wave form (although I realize he had it on a narrow band segment) on the spectrum scope is astounding. I didn't notice any "weak" signals that I found difficult to copy. With the low noise floor, the signals popped out of the radio...quite frankly seemingly better than my 7600, no matter how I had it adjusted. The adjacent signal rejection was excellent, being able to copy the signals he was tuned to without a problem, on a very crowded band. Most of those stations were European and strong, something I was not privy to here on the west side of the U.S. Obviously, I was very impressed.

Comparing it to other, more expensive radios? That's up to you to form your own opinion. But judging on what I heard, it's a VERY capable performer, possibly on a par with the higher priced rigs. It might have less hardware, physical, and peripheral convenience features than pricier radios, but it's no wonder it keeps selling out at the dealers.

73,  Bob K7JQ

   
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on June 03, 2016, 01:43:43 PM
^ this ^

Exactly why I like sdr so much.  I think its a hoot a $1500 sdr keeps up with the analogue godzilla
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZENKI on June 03, 2016, 04:27:24 PM
And why not? This is what new technology is supposed to do, improve and make things better. You can see  this play out across right across  our lives. Most of us would not be holding smart phones in our hand at such ridiculous prices if it was not for this technology drive and improvement. And much of what drives  smart phone technology is also driving the development of radios like the IC7300.

SDR DDC/DUC technology currently has the potential to outperform, out -feature, and out everything that legacy technology  up and down conversion radios  could ever offer. It does this  at an affordable price. So why not compare to see if this technology can indeed deliver and outperform radios costing ten times as much?

Even Icom itself has been exposed itself to financial risk by taking this gamble, because the IC7300 performance shows  what  technology can deliver and this could potentially affect the sales of its  very expensive 15000 dollar radio. Lets be clear here, with  some minor improvements the IC7300 could easily blow the IC7851 off the face of the planet at a bargain basement price. The technology exists today to do this. If Icom is the first to deliver  a high performance   DDC/DUC version of the IC7851  radio it will  nail and own the  high performance ham radio market into the future. I would say that Icom is  probably working right now on the  SDR DDC/DUC version of the IC7851 which it  could feasibly sell for 5000 dollars, now that would be  technology progress!

Users comparing  radios are also making a statement of reality, that they are expecting the SDR DDC/DUC platform  to outperform yester-years technology. The popularity of the IC7300 is part of this  expectation and  more importantly its a boxed knobbed radio with a front panel. This is what the ham radio market wants make no mistake about that. Makers who are pursuing  PC interfaced SDR radios are shooting their opportunity in the foot. The success of the IC7300 has proved this point in convincing terms.

The SDR platform  can and will deliver performance such as the best performing receivers, clean transmitters and basic things like a calibrated S-meter that legacy radios have failed to deliver in the  ham radio market to this very day.  Now if the IC7300 had a ultra clean transmitter, best possible receiver performance and a calibrated S-meter I would say you have progressed forward. Icom has failed to exploit the full potential of the SDR platform like  Zeuss, Anan and even Flexradio have done. Bear in mind that there are number of cheaper SDR DUC receivers that still leave the IC7300 for dead. But to be fair the performance that the IC7300 has delivered at such an affordable price is an amazing achievement and you would ask yourself why would you want to buy any second hand legacy radio with such poor performance when you can buy the IC7300.  We paid too much for this old useless junk that mostly had useless performance. The Sherwood receiver list bears testimony to the junk we were buying, this is even before we consider the useless dirty transmitter designs.

The price point is  delivered because of technology. Even if you had a great single receiver radio like the K3, try adding a second receiver or upgrading a old K3 to the K3S level, by the time you done that you could have bought 2X IC7300's that has receiver performance that is good enough for most hams. This is technology progress.

Yes its a technology arms race and i would say that  horse that Icom has put into this race has marked the beginning of its market dominance of the Amateur radio high performance boxed knobbed radio market.  Icom  and SUN-SDR are the only 2 horses in this race while other manufacturers are sleeping thinking that people can walk down a street with   handset in their hand with a trolley  carrying a PC to run their smart phone. PC interface SDR radios are  just as ridiculous in concept because the world has become accustomed to a touch screen/ knobbed interface. I wonder when these other ham radio manufacturers  are going to wake up and get a dose of ham radio reality before they are out of business.

Compare on, technology is going  to give hams the deal of the century! But hey if you want you can buy a boat anchor with useless performance in every regard  you can buy the FTDX9000! I would  buy a few IC7300's. 1. for the Toilet, 2 for the shack, 1 for the mobile, 1 for the yacht, 1 for portable and 1 for backup. Do they offer 10 packs of IC7300's? It  would be a great deal!


I find it astounding and amusing how everyone immediately wants to compare their four, five, and six thousand dollar radios against a fifteen hundred dollar entry level radio.  I watched the video and I was unimpressed since the entry level radio had it's weak signal hands tied behind it's back and a simple flip of the pre-amp would have pulled the weak signal out of the noise 

Mr. Ellington's video serves no practical purpose for half a dozen reasons not the least of which is that there really was not that much difference between the two radios.  But comparing a forty five hundred dollar contest radio against an entry level radio??  Please... ::)   
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 03, 2016, 05:01:22 PM
And why not? This is what new technology is supposed to do, improve and make things better. You can see  this play out across right across  our lives. Most of us would not be holding smart phones in our hand at such ridiculous prices if it was not for this technology drive and improvement. And much of what drives  smart phone technology is also driving the development of radios like the IC7300.

SDR DDC/DUC technology currently has the potential to outperform, out -feature, and out everything that legacy technology  up and down conversion radios  could ever offer. It does this  at an affordable price. So why not compare to see if this technology can indeed deliver and outperform radios costing ten times as much?

Even Icom itself has been exposed itself to financial risk by taking this gamble, because the IC7300 performance shows  what  technology can deliver and this could potentially affect the sales of its  very expensive 15000 dollar radio. Lets be clear here, with  some minor improvements the IC7300 could easily blow the IC7851 off the face of the planet at a bargain basement price. The technology exists today to do this. If Icom is the first to deliver  a high performance   DDC/DUC version of the IC7851  radio it will  nail and own the  high performance ham radio market into the future. I would say that Icom is  probably working right now on the  SDR DDC/DUC version of the IC7851 which it  could feasibly sell for 5000 dollars, now that would be  technology progress!

Users comparing  radios are also making a statement of reality, that they are expecting the SDR DDC/DUC platform  to outperform yester-years technology. The popularity of the IC7300 is part of this  expectation and  more importantly its a boxed knobbed radio with a front panel. This is what the ham radio market wants make no mistake about that. Makers who are pursuing  PC interfaced SDR radios are shooting their opportunity in the foot. The success of the IC7300 has proved this point in convincing terms.

The SDR platform  can and will deliver performance such as the best performing receivers, clean transmitters and basic things like a calibrated S-meter that legacy radios have failed to deliver in the  ham radio market to this very day.  Now if the IC7300 had a ultra clean transmitter, best possible receiver performance and a calibrated S-meter I would say you have progressed forward. Icom has failed to exploit the full potential of the SDR platform like  Zeuss, Anan and even Flexradio have done. Bear in mind that there are number of cheaper SDR DUC receivers that still leave the IC7300 for dead. But to be fair the performance that the IC7300 has delivered at such an affordable price is an amazing achievement and you would ask yourself why would you want to buy any second hand legacy radio with such poor performance when you can buy the IC7300.  We paid too much for this old useless junk that mostly had useless performance. The Sherwood receiver list bears testimony to the junk we were buying, this is even before we consider the useless dirty transmitter designs.

The price point is  delivered because of technology. Even if you had a great single receiver radio like the K3, try adding a second receiver or upgrading a old K3 to the K3S level, by the time you done that you could have bought 2X IC7300's that has receiver performance that is good enough for most hams. This is technology progress.

Yes its a technology arms race and i would say that  horse that Icom has put into this race has marked the beginning of its market dominance of the Amateur radio high performance boxed knobbed radio market.  Icom  and SUN-SDR are the only 2 horses in this race while other manufacturers are sleeping thinking that people can walk down a street with   handset in their hand with a trolley  carrying a PC to run their smart phone. PC interface SDR radios are  just as ridiculous in concept because the world has become accustomed to a touch screen/ knobbed interface. I wonder when these other ham radio manufacturers  are going to wake up and get a dose of ham radio reality before they are out of business.

Compare on, technology is going  to give hams the deal of the century! But hey if you want you can buy a boat anchor with useless performance in every regard  you can buy the FTDX9000! I would  buy a few IC7300's. 1. for the Toilet, 2 for the shack, 1 for the mobile, 1 for the yacht, 1 for portable and 1 for backup. Do they offer 10 packs of IC7300's? It  would be a great deal!


If you were serious it would be a lot better. You wrote an awful lot of words to say almost nothing of value.

We see new technology all around us and I have yet to see anyone compare a Tesla to a Nissan Leaf.  That's pretty much what your post advocates which is just not realistic.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 03, 2016, 05:22:14 PM
more importantly its a boxed knobbed radio with a front panel. This is what the ham radio market wants make no mistake about that. Makers who are pursuing  PC interfaced SDR radios are shooting their opportunity in the foot. The success of the IC7300 has proved this point in convincing terms.

 i would say that  horse that Icom has put into this race has marked the beginning of its market dominance of the Amateur radio high performance boxed knobbed radio market.  

 other manufacturers are sleeping thinking that people can walk down a street with   handset in their hand with a trolley  carrying a PC to run their smart phone. PC interface SDR radios are  just as ridiculous in concept because the world has become accustomed to a touch screen/ knobbed interface. I wonder when these other ham radio manufacturers  are going to wake up and get a dose of ham radio reality before they are out of business.

Right after the Icom 7300 was announced I wrote this last August 22 2015 when I started the A Flexradio Killer Topic:
It has become obvious to me and many others that the average everyday ham does not want a SDR controlled by a computer. We want our knobs. We also would like a panafall and care little about what is in the box of buttons and knobs as long as it does not require a separate computer to operate.

In that thread I was ridiculed, called nasty names, and the diehard Flexers did everything they could to diss my opinion.  Now that the Icom 7300 is on the market and has proved to be a big sales winner, the diehard Flexers are still maintaining that you gotta use a computer or the SDR sucks. They are wrong and are never going to wake up until Flexradio follows the path of Ten-Tec.

The majority of Hams do NOT want a computer interface to use their radios, nor will they pay $1200 for a overpriced Maestro. The Japanese Writing is on the wall:

Sayonara 必要ありませコンピュータはありません      :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ



Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on June 03, 2016, 08:33:14 PM
You know, honestly, I respect everyone's opinion. But I get a kick out of those that opine strongly on equipment without substantiation from extensive on-air experience in crowded conditions and poor propagation...such as major contests. You look them up on qrz.com, and judging by the number of views, they spend little time operating. Also their comments are usually something that says..."I usually like to ragchew on 10 meters and our group on 3.825, and also occasionally chase DX". You don't need a great radio to get into a DXpedition pileup working split. IMO, true radio reviewers are the hard core contesters that have to battle extreme QRM, QRN, and how reliable the equipment is under long-term continuous operation. They may have their pet radios, but at least their reviews have some substance and authenticity. And they don't have to be electronic geniuses. Just have the experience to say..."This radio really does the job." Sometimes despite Sherwood numbers.

It seems that the casual operators I described just offer contrary opinions for the sake of argument, and to rattle people's cages. Even if something is blatantly true right under their noses, they'll offer the opposite view. Just my observation. The people I have described will obviously disagree  ::)

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 03, 2016, 08:54:10 PM
You know, honestly, I respect everyone's opinion. But I get a kick out of those that opine strongly on equipment without substantiation from extensive on-air experience in crowded conditions and poor propagation...such as major contests. You look them up on qrz.com, and judging by the number of views, they spend little time operating. Also their comments are usually something that says..."I usually like to ragchew on 10 meters and our group on 3.825, and also occasionally chase DX". You don't need a great radio to get into a DXpedition pileup working split. IMO, true radio reviewers are the hard core contesters that have to battle extreme QRM, QRN, and how reliable the equipment is under long-term continuous operation. They may have their pet radios, but at least their reviews have some substance and authenticity. And they don't have to be electronic geniuses. Just have the experience to say..."This radio really does the job." Sometimes despite Sherwood numbers.

It seems that the casual operators I described just offer contrary opinions for the sake of argument, and to rattle people's cages. Even if something is blatantly true right under their noses, they'll offer the opposite view. Just my observation. The people I have described will obviously disagree  ::)



Well I was a contester in the 80's and did so with far lesser equipment than we have today.  My primary contest rigs were an old winged emblem KWM-2 and a TR4CW and I did pretty well.  Todays radios are amazing and there is so much diversity like some are designed to be contest stations and have all of the necessary features to that end while others are simple entry level radios designed for a different purpose. I have been a ham for 51 years now and I find it peculiar that so many people want to compare very expensive contest radios to a low cost entry level radio, it just really doesn't make any sense and is in fact childish and unproductive.

Radio technology is continuing to evolve and its going to be fun to see what the new standard will be ten years from now.  I can remember when the permeability tuned oscillator was a big deal.  I also remember when solid state radios replaced tube rigs, especially solid state finals making QSY effortless and that very quickly became the new standard.

But I agree that having to battle the QRM and QRN one finds in a CW contest is a test of not only the equipment but also the skill of the operator.  I wish I had had a TS-590SG in the CW SS in the 1970's and 80's.

So how does the Flex compare to the Anan?  I have yet to see that here on Eham, wonder why that is that no one wants to compare apples and apples? 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 04, 2016, 03:35:58 AM
So how does the Flex compare to the Anan?  I have yet to see that here on Eham, wonder why that is that no one wants to compare apples and apples? 

Why do you not start a Topic on your question???? Instead of trying to hijack a 7300 topic.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AE5X on June 04, 2016, 06:01:37 AM
We see new technology all around us and I have yet to see anyone compare a Tesla to a Nissan Leaf.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103769_nissan-leaf-ads-poke-fun-at-tesla-model-3-reservation-queue

http://cleantechnica.com/2016/05/08/nissans-tesla-model-3-response-gets-laughs-thrills/

http://www.thecarconnection.com/car-compare-results/nissan_leaf_2015-vs-tesla_model-s_2014

and dozens more................
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AE5X on June 04, 2016, 06:03:22 AM
So how does the Flex compare to the Anan?  I have yet to see that here on Eham, wonder why that is that no one wants to compare apples and apples? 

Why do you not start a Topic on your question???? Instead of trying to hijack a 7300 topic.

Stan K9IUQ

Anan vs. Flex would be an interesting read if emotion could be kept out of it.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on June 04, 2016, 07:33:01 AM
Quote
So how does the Flex compare to the Anan?  I have yet to see that here on Eham, wonder why that is that no one wants to compare apples and apples? 

I've made comments on numerous forums.  My K3s, ANAN-100D and Flex 6500 all have comparable performance and are all truly great radios.  Fast paced cw is a significantly smoother experience on the K3s than the SDRs though.

I'm definitely not ready to pronounce Icom the market dominator-to-be going forward.  It is still way too early in the game.

Barry N1EU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 04, 2016, 08:37:05 AM
Quote
So how does the Flex compare to the Anan?  I have yet to see that here on Eham, wonder why that is that no one wants to compare apples and apples? 

I've made comments on numerous forums.  My K3s, ANAN-100D and Flex 6500 all have comparable performance and are all truly great radios.  Fast paced cw is a significantly smoother experience on the K3s than the SDRs though.

I'm definitely not ready to pronounce Icom the market dominator-to-be going forward.  It is still way too early in the game.

Barry N1EU

You probably should wait until Icom produces a more high end radio.  The 7300 is an entry level rig that lacks many of the features of a contest grade radio, that's why it doesn't cost much.  As far as the market goes they have sold a lot of them and continue to sell more every day.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on June 06, 2016, 07:34:26 PM
Ok, go easy on me, kind of a new ham here..... got my Tech license a few months ago and just passed the General exam. No HF transceiver or antenna yet, but soon.... :)

So all of this is from an enthusiastic but admittedly new ham perspective.

I've been strongly leaning toward a Kenwood 590SG.  Today I had a chance to spend an hour playing with a 7300 side by side with a 590SG on the same frequencies.  I hadn't read the 7300 manual but during the hour I managed to learn my way around some of the basic features.  I tried to look for marginal contact signals - in some cases I could mostly hear one party and barely the other.  The quality of the received signals were about the same for the Icom and Kenwood in terms of what eventually made it from the receiver to the speaker in each transceiver - the Icom and Kenwood both sounded pretty good but different.  Certainly the 7300 sounded good - maybe a little more clear (more mid-range, less bass?) but overall they were both good and comparable.  I can't say I heard anything on one that was not present or not intelligible on the other.  My guess is that with their audio tone controls they could probably be made to sound fairly similar tonally.  The one thing that stood out was that for things where the controls were accessible via hardware (on both radios) that was generally a preferred experience.  I kind of like the hardware 10 key pad on the Kenwood; I realize this might be a user specific preference.  Where the Icom had a pretty strong advantage was in the ability to visualize information (signals, controls, etc.) - ie, with maybe a few exceptions, pretty much everything related to the panadapter accrued to the advantage of the Icom.  Up until now I have been thinking that I would add a SDRPlay panadapter to the 590SG; one advantage of this would be the ability to see up to 8 MHz of spectrum at one time.  I might not have found all the controls but the Icom seems limited to 1 MHz (+/- 500kHz) of visible span, and to get to 1 MHz you have to cycle through other discreet steps (2.5, 5.0, 10, 25, 100, and 250 kHz), no direct access to a specific span setting.  So in one or a few respects the SDRPlay offers an advantage (especially the 8 MHz view), but after thinking about this (remember, new ham here) for everything other than 6 and 10 Meters 8 MHz is perhaps irrelevant (and even for those two bands it's more than needed for those each of those full bands).  Or maybe there is a case to be made for looking at 8 MHz so an operator can view more than one band at a time?  Moving past this, while the SDRPlay is very cool (it was kind of a gateway drug that attracted me to ham radio), when I look at what else you can do with SDRPlay (actually with HDSDR software in my case), the panadapter features in the 7300 go pretty far beyond what HDSDR does.  It would still be nice to have a larger external display but in terms of features and functions I think the Icom is probably pretty far ahead of what HDSDR does, plus there is zero reliance on a PC.  On the other hand, if you have any call logging and related PC software I guess there is a good chance you are going to wind up with a transceiver/PC interface.

Just sharing some observations, impressions, and thoughts.  Friendly critiques welcome :)
  
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3HFS on June 06, 2016, 08:18:29 PM
Hamstudy,  You may be on the right track by looking closely at the ergonomics.  Both radios have really good capabilities, and essentially the same performance to the typical ham.  My advice is that you weight your comfort in front of the controls a lot more heavily than the lengthy lists of bells & whistles.  A much more enjoyable time is to be had in the many hours in making contacts than with the few minutes spent exploring the many features that end up going unused.

Narrowing the list to these two rigs will net a fine choice for the budding General licensee.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on June 06, 2016, 09:19:30 PM
Hamstudy,  You may be on the right track by looking closely at the ergonomics.  Both radios have really good capabilities, and essentially the same performance to the typical ham.  My advice is that you weight your comfort in front of the controls a lot more heavily than the lengthy lists of bells & whistles.  A much more enjoyable time is to be had in the many hours in making contacts than with the few minutes spent exploring the many features that end up going unused.

Narrowing the list to these two rigs will net a fine choice for the budding General licensee.

Thanks N3HFS - I think with a bit more study and more operating time I can determine which interface I find more enjoyable to use.  What I don't think I can figure out as well is the transmit and receive performance.  It's my impression that they will both transmit about the same (but I could be wrong).  I'm especially wondering if they will receive comparably well (especially for weak signals in the presence of stronger signals, etc.).  I realize there are manufacturer specs but I'm wondering about real world performance.  Based on what I think I read ("heard") in your post you look at the two as having pretty comparable performance?  Thx 73
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3HFS on June 06, 2016, 09:49:29 PM
Hamstudy,  You may be on the right track by looking closely at the ergonomics.  Both radios have really good capabilities, and essentially the same performance to the typical ham.  My advice is that you weight your comfort in front of the controls a lot more heavily than the lengthy lists of bells & whistles.  A much more enjoyable time is to be had in the many hours in making contacts than with the few minutes spent exploring the many features that end up going unused.

Narrowing the list to these two rigs will net a fine choice for the budding General licensee.

Thanks N3HFS - I think with a bit more study and more operating time I can determine which interface I find more enjoyable to use.  What I don't think I can figure out as well is the transmit and receive performance.  It's my impression that they will both transmit about the same (but I could be wrong).  I'm especially wondering if they will receive comparably well (especially for weak signals in the presence of stronger signals, etc.).  I realize there are manufacturer specs but I'm wondering about real world performance.  Based on what I think I read ("heard") in your post you look at the two as having pretty comparable performance?  Thx 73

Yes, I think you would not find any performance differences to be anywhere near as important in the long run as the ergonomic differences. 

If you are on HF for non-competitive reasons, a radio you can be really comfortable using can stick with you long after much better rigs are introduced.  I speak from personal experience here - I started out in the late '80s on a used '70's-vintage TS-520S which was fine (basic-but-good receiver, and consistently good audio reports), but I started thinking about the WARC bands (30, 17, and 12 meters) and general coverage and such, and decided to buy a new radio that had those features.  After saving and scrimping a bit, I kitted my brand-new TS-440S with an automatic antenna tuner and a couple of filters.  I still have that rig, although I finally retired it for my TS-590S a few years ago.  That was a twenty year run!  I grew to learn using practically every feature of the 440 almost instinctively, and ended up appreciating all the fun times I squeezed out of it. 

In the meantime, I acquired a IC-706MKii but never liked the many menus and "hidden" controls to which I was used to having instant access.  That one ended up in a milk crate with a few odds and ends as a "grab and go" emergency kit - practically unused.  Not a bad radio, but not one I could fall in love with.

Your mileage will vary, and you can't take my preferences as gospel.  Over time, brand preferences (believe it or not) and personal taste will help make some of these decisions easier.  But if you're worried about making the right decision now, consider buying a used older rig for under, say, $500 and see what you like and hate about it.  Gathering intelligence on your own likes and preferences can be invaluable in making a final decision on a rig you'll enjoy for a long time.  73.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on June 07, 2016, 12:01:48 AM
Hamstudy,  You may be on the right track by looking closely at the ergonomics.  Both radios have really good capabilities, and essentially the same performance to the typical ham.  My advice is that you weight your comfort in front of the controls a lot more heavily than the lengthy lists of bells & whistles.  A much more enjoyable time is to be had in the many hours in making contacts than with the few minutes spent exploring the many features that end up going unused.

Narrowing the list to these two rigs will net a fine choice for the budding General licensee.

Thanks N3HFS - I think with a bit more study and more operating time I can determine which interface I find more enjoyable to use.  What I don't think I can figure out as well is the transmit and receive performance.  It's my impression that they will both transmit about the same (but I could be wrong).  I'm especially wondering if they will receive comparably well (especially for weak signals in the presence of stronger signals, etc.).  I realize there are manufacturer specs but I'm wondering about real world performance.  Based on what I think I read ("heard") in your post you look at the two as having pretty comparable performance?  Thx 73

Yes, I think you would not find any performance differences to be anywhere near as important in the long run as the ergonomic differences. 

If you are on HF for non-competitive reasons, a radio you can be really comfortable using can stick with you long after much better rigs are introduced.  I speak from personal experience here - I started out in the late '80s on a used '70's-vintage TS-520S which was fine (basic-but-good receiver, and consistently good audio reports), but I started thinking about the WARC bands (30, 17, and 12 meters) and general coverage and such, and decided to buy a new radio that had those features.  After saving and scrimping a bit, I kitted my brand-new TS-440S with an automatic antenna tuner and a couple of filters.  I still have that rig, although I finally retired it for my TS-590S a few years ago.  That was a twenty year run!  I grew to learn using practically every feature of the 440 almost instinctively, and ended up appreciating all the fun times I squeezed out of it. 

In the meantime, I acquired a IC-706MKii but never liked the many menus and "hidden" controls to which I was used to having instant access.  That one ended up in a milk crate with a few odds and ends as a "grab and go" emergency kit - practically unused.  Not a bad radio, but not one I could fall in love with.

Your mileage will vary, and you can't take my preferences as gospel.  Over time, brand preferences (believe it or not) and personal taste will help make some of these decisions easier.  But if you're worried about making the right decision now, consider buying a used older rig for under, say, $500 and see what you like and hate about it.  Gathering intelligence on your own likes and preferences can be invaluable in making a final decision on a rig you'll enjoy for a long time.  73.

Thanks - I don't know if contests are on my path but what makes a good contest transceiver vs a non-contest transceiver?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3HFS on June 07, 2016, 12:21:40 AM
Try a few contests and find out. Or at least read up on these forums.

You really will have to reach a little.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on June 07, 2016, 04:36:17 AM

Thanks - I don't know if contests are on my path but what makes a good contest transceiver vs a non-contest transceiver?


Watch the Contest University videos

http://www.contestuniversity.com/main/page_videos.html

and other publications by Rob Sherwod NC0B on contesting rig performance. Even if you are not a contester contesting performance matters to you as contests represent the harshest RF environment and quickly sort out good from mediocre transceivers.  Note that most hams stop with Sherwod's table on receiver performance and don't bother reading the details, such as AGC performance, audio fatigue due to audio IMD, etc.

Don't let anyone convince you contesting performance doesn't matter.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on June 07, 2016, 07:42:15 AM
Try a few contests and find out. Or at least read up on these forums.

You really will have to reach a little.

Does that mean I'm lazy, or you don't know, or you you don't want to share the answer? :)

It's a bit of a Catch-22:  hard to contest without a transceiver, once you own a transceiver hopefully it was the right one.  I'm pretty good with Google and forum searching but my initial passes didn't yield what I was looking for.  Always impresses me how people can take the time to post "I know but I'm not telling" replies but maybe it's good mentoring to stretch the student.  Having said that, hobbies and other interests can be both fun and time consuming - so it seems that asking questions and giving answers in a forum is generally part of the mission of a forum, i.e. to share info about things we enjoy and to save on time and avoid needless mis-steps.  If someone doesn't want to do any of that because they are too busy, no problem, but why post?  And if there are so many good threads or articles that address a question it would seem an experienced person could post such a link in nearly the same amount of time a post could be made saying "look further".  And if there are a lot of threads or articles that sort of address the question but not really well it would seem to be an opportunity to net it out.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 07, 2016, 08:41:35 AM
Try a few contests and find out. Or at least read up on these forums.

You really will have to reach a little.

Does that mean I'm lazy, or you don't know, or you you don't want to share the answer? :)

It's a bit of a Catch-22:  hard to contest without a transceiver, once you own a transceiver hopefully it was the right one.  I'm pretty good with Google and forum searching but my initial passes didn't yield what I was looking for.  Always impresses me how people can take the time to post "I know but I'm not telling" replies but maybe it's good mentoring to stretch the student.  Having said that, hobbies and other interests can be both fun and time consuming - so it seems that asking questions and giving answers in a forum is generally part of the mission of a forum, i.e. to share info about things we enjoy and to save on time and to avoid needless mis-steps.  If someone doesn't want to do any of that because they are too busy, no problem, but why post?  And if there are so many good threads or articles that address a question it would seem an experienced person could post such a link in nearly the same amount of time a post could be made saying "look further".  And if there are a lot of threads or articles that sort of address the question but not really well it would seem to be an opportunity to net it out.

You said you recently got your technician license.   I suppose if I could give any advice at all it would be to upgrade to at least a general class license before you start thinking about contesting, unless you plan on CW contesting.

As far as the two rigs you mentioned either one could be used as a contest station although neither one is particularly suited for contesting each one has attributes that are certainly worth while.  As far as receiving goes, although I don't own either one I have used both radios and I can not truthfully say that the Icom receives better than the Kenwood, they are both very good in the receive department and it would be hard to go wrong with either one. So it really comes down to a matter of personal preference as to which radio you choose. 

As far as contesting is concerned the most important thing you can have in a contest is skill.  A skilled contest operator running a TS-850 could beat a noob using the most state of the art rig available.  There is only one way to develop contest skill and that is to jump in.  FWIW N3HFS gave you some very good advice and a gracious thank you would be way more acceptable than the thanks for nothing response you gave.

Post your callsign.   
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on June 07, 2016, 09:09:37 AM
Try a few contests and find out. Or at least read up on these forums.

You really will have to reach a little.

Does that mean I'm lazy, or you don't know, or you you don't want to share the answer? :)

It's a bit of a Catch-22:  hard to contest without a transceiver, once you own a transceiver hopefully it was the right one.  I'm pretty good with Google and forum searching but my initial passes didn't yield what I was looking for.  Always impresses me how people can take the time to post "I know but I'm not telling" replies but maybe it's good mentoring to stretch the student.  Having said that, hobbies and other interests can be both fun and time consuming - so it seems that asking questions and giving answers in a forum is generally part of the mission of a forum, i.e. to share info about things we enjoy and to save on time and to avoid needless mis-steps.  If someone doesn't want to do any of that because they are too busy, no problem, but why post?  And if there are so many good threads or articles that address a question it would seem an experienced person could post such a link in nearly the same amount of time a post could be made saying "look further".  And if there are a lot of threads or articles that sort of address the question but not really well it would seem to be an opportunity to net it out.

You said you recently got your technician license.   I suppose if I could give any advice at all it would be to upgrade to at least a general class license before you start thinking about contesting, unless you plan on CW contesting.

As far as the two rigs you mentioned either one could be used as a contest station although neither one is particularly suited for contesting each one has attributes that are certainly worth while.  As far as receiving goes, although I don't own either one I have used both radios and I can not truthfully say that the Icom receives better than the Kenwood, they are both very good in the receive department and it would be hard to go wrong with either one. So it really comes down to a matter of personal preference as to which radio you choose.  

As far as contesting is concerned the most important thing you can have in a contest is skill.  A skilled contest operator running a TS-850 could beat a noob using the most state of the art rig available.  There is only one way to develop contest skill and that is to jump in.  FWIW N3HFS gave you some very good advice and a gracious thank you would be way more acceptable than the thanks for nothing response you gave.

Post your callsign.  

KA4DPO - thanks for your post.  You might have seen the answer hiding in the post I commented on but I didn't.  Your answer was all I was looking for - if what you are effectively saying is that transceiver performance is just a continuum of improvements with variations from one model to the next - and what primarily differentiates contesters is their skill, that's cool.  It doesn't quite explain why some people use the term "contest transceiver" but there is a similar line of thinking in photography that says Ansel Adams with an old film camera would win more than his share of contests for scenic landscapes against most photographers with the latest Nikon or Canon lenses and digital bodies.  At the same time I'm guessing even Ansel would have a tough time winning as many contests if the contest was based on who could submit the photo of the most decisive moment during an event with high speed action like capturing the precise moment of the winning play during a baseball or a football game.  So one could say for example that in sports photography Frames Per Second would be a metric to consider.  Or in low light theater photography good high ISO would be a capability to consider.  Maybe there are a few or several such items to consider in ham contesting or maybe not - but I hear you about skill being the most important if not the only key determinant of contesting.

As mentioned a few posts above I just recently passed the General, so I'm getting close to making an investment in a transceiver - so I thought it might be good to do some research by asking other hams here.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on June 07, 2016, 09:17:59 AM

KA4DPO - thanks for your post.  You might have seen the answer hiding in the post I commented on but I didn't.  Your answer was all I was looking for - if what you are effectively saying is that transceiver performance is just a continuum of improvements with variations from one model to the next - and what primarily differentiates contesters is their skill, that's cool.  It doesn't quite explain why some people use the term "contest transceiver" but there is a similar line of thinking in photography that says Ansel Adams with an old film camera would win more than his share of contests for scenic landscapes against most photographers with the latest Nikon or Canon lenses and digital bodies.  At the same time I'm guessing even Ansel would have a tough time winning as many contests if the contest was based on who could submit the photo of the most decisive moment during an event with high speed action like capturing the precise moment of a baseball or a football game.  So one could say for example that in sports photography Frames Per Second would be a metric to consider.  Or in low light theater photography good high ISO would be a capability to consider.  Maybe there are a few or several such items to consider in ham contesting or maybe not - but I hear you about skill being the most important if not the only key determinant of contesting.

As mentioned a few posts above I just recently passed the General, so I'm getting close to making an investment in a transceiver - so I thought it might be good to do some research by asking other hams here.

Did you watch the videos and read what Rob Sherwood has written on the subject? You won't find the answer to your question on eHam, but certainly find it in Rob's work. And the answer is not a simple one; that is, you will have to decide for yourself what rig makes sense for your personal situation based on tradeoffs between price, performance, and ergonomics.

Watch the CTU video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1CYELk23Pg&index=10&list=PLRSwUN4qr1Lq50amRtsZm-y2nKPHHRz0v

and read the following

http://ncarc.net/sites/default/files/NC0B-NCARC-2016-2f.pdf
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: SOFAR on June 07, 2016, 09:23:21 AM
A photography analogy, that's a new one. I can file that away with the 'call sign as a brand', and efficient verses high performance cars.

Or maybe I should wait for the edited version of the post 45 mins from now, before replying.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on June 07, 2016, 09:32:25 AM
A photography analogy, that's a new one. I can file that away with the 'call sign as a brand', and efficient verses high performance cars.

Or maybe I should wait for the edited version of the post 45 mins from now, before replying.

It's got nothing to do with brand but it does have something to do with functionality that sometimes but not always advances usefully with technology.  If it makes you feel better ignore the words Nikon and Canon and focus on Frames Per Second.  Or if you don't like analogies period that's your call.

Based on the post above I found this:
http://www.sherweng.com/Dayton_2004/Dayton_2004-Sherwood.pdf
A link to something along these lines is all that was needed if the question of what differentiates a good contest transceiver from a good non-contest transceiver is too weird.

73
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on June 07, 2016, 10:07:05 AM
The link above is somewhat old but has very good explanatory info.  This link has a pretty interesting sort on data for more recent models.  
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html
I'm guessing the experienced hams know about this but in case there are any newbies around these two links seem to address the question and a lot more.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on June 07, 2016, 11:21:44 AM
btw, tying back to the original topic of this thread the Sherwood tests seem to give the 7300 pretty respectable marks (and the 590SG does pretty well too) but I guess the contester preferred features and performance generally are on the models furthest north on the list - so it's a continuum.  73
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VK3BL on June 11, 2016, 12:51:17 AM
As mentioned a few posts above I just recently passed the General, so I'm getting close to making an investment in a transceiver - so I thought it might be good to do some research by asking other hams here.

Hey Mate,

My advice is to not spend your time gawking over the Sherwood lists - because the fact of the matter is 99% of the time the receiver isn't the limitation; the conditions of the bands are!

For example.  I have the following in my shack (not all mine):
Yaesu FT-101E (1976 all analogue radio)
Yaesu FT-817ND
Yaesu FT-857D
Kenwood TS-120V (1980s all analogue)
Icom IC-7000
Icom IC-7200
Icom IC-7300
Alinco DX-SR8T

At any one time, I have 3 of them connected to a coaxial switch so I can quickly change between receivers.

I have *never* been able to notice a significant difference between any of them - if I can hear it on the IC-7300, I can hear it on the FT-101E.

Whilst its true DSP NR and all the bells and whistles of the IC-7300 make it a nicer radio than the others, the fact is that ALL of the radios have proven good enough for DXing, and participating (not trying to win) in contests for the purposes of getting new ones in the log.

I worked my first 100 countries on a FT-101E & a vertical, which according to Sherwood has a RMDR figure of ~60dB (2 and 20kHz spacing).  This is over 20dB worse than the IC-7300, yet as mentioned above, I've yet to find a weak DX station that I can hear on the IC-7300 that I can't on the FT-101E.

There is much more to a transceiver than close in dynamic range, unless the only thing you do with your transceiver is CW Contesting

You should be playing with every radio you can get your hands on.  You should ask these questions:
-How easy is it to adjust TX power level (if you have a tuner or amp, you will do this OFTEN).
-How easy is the DSP to use, and how well does it work? (NB, NR & IF Shift)
-How many antenna connectors does it have?  (Do you need more than one?)
-Does it have an internal ATU?
-IS IT NICE TO LISTEN TOO? (You're going to spend a bit of time doing that!)
-Is the radio big enough for shack use comfortably? (the FT-857D is a pain to use)
-Does it have a built in Equalizer, for transmit and receive?
-Does the radio have a reputation for 'sounding good'?  (the IC-7300 definitely does)
-Are there any extras?  Eg, real time band scope?
-Does it come with all the filters you need, or are they extras?  Eg, the K3
-Can it be plugged into a computer via USB for Audio & Control? (you won't need a digital mode interface then)
-How long is the warranty?  Is there a local factory authorized service center? (accidents happen)
-Does it decode RTTY? CW without a pc?
-Can it SEND RTTY? CW without a pc?
-Does it have any recording features?
-Does it have a Voice Keyer (eg, you record 'CQ 40' and then just press a button)

As a new ham, all of the above is going to be more important to you than whether or not the radio has a Sherwood 2kHz RMDR figure of 70dB or 90dB.  As Rob himself has stated, for SSB ops, 80dB is fine in 99% of cases, and bare in mind he is talking about the 20kHz RMDR figure, not the close in 2kHz one.  You have to go A LONG WAY down his list before you find a radio that doesn't have over 80dB of far spaced RMDR performance.  Eg, the FT-101E.

Don't buy into the debates you see on the internet regarding specific performance numbers.  At this point in the development of radio (it isn't a new technology anymore), they're almost always theoretical, and in the case of a new ham with a new and modest station, they ARE theoretical. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 11, 2016, 04:32:58 AM
Hey Mate,

My advice is to not spend your time gawking over the Sherwood lists - because the fact of the matter is 99% of the time the receiver isn't the limitation; the conditions of the bands are!

I have made exactly the same observations as you many times in this forum. In blind tests 99% of the time a ham will not be able to tell the RX difference between a Sherwood high rated SDR or a Icom 7300 or a decent knobbed radio.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VK3BL on June 11, 2016, 07:25:40 AM
Hey Mate,

My advice is to not spend your time gawking over the Sherwood lists - because the fact of the matter is 99% of the time the receiver isn't the limitation; the conditions of the bands are!

I have made exactly the same observations as you many times in this forum. In blind tests 99% of the time a ham will not be able to tell the RX difference between a Sherwood high rated SDR or a Icom 7300 or a decent knobbed radio.

Stan K9IUQ

Look, I like many others would like to own an italian supercar.  I read the specs and I dream.

The fact is though, my first car was second hand, and had some panel damage.  It always got me from A to B, and when I did inevitably ding it, there weren't as many tears.

Just like it would be foolish for a first time new driver to drool over a Ferrari, it is equally pointless drooling over high end rigs.

Some are made for contesting
Some are made for dxing
Some are made for CW
Some are made for eSSB

The point is, no rig does it all, and despite what a new ham may think, they're not going to know just yet what part of the hobby most excites them.

Take me for example; my first radio was the Yaesu FT-857D.  I thought operating portable would be important to me - it wasn't.  I got hooked on DXing, and that requires something better than a vehicle mounted antenna.  When I moved the radio to the shack, I quickly found it was painful to use due to its small size.  Features like NR or DSP took digging thru enough menus that it wasn't convenient to use them.  If you're trying to work a fading DX signal, such tools are great, but not if you spend that long getting the settings right that you can no longer hear the DX!  Another radio was purchased, and to this day I still haven't got my money's worth out of that FT-857D.

For a new ham, the truth is they don't know yet what they will enjoy, just like I didn't.  It may be DXing, it may be contesting, or it might be public service.  Heck after a year, they may get sick of all of us and give up on the hobby - no one can say at this point.

Buy the nicest all round rig you can afford, but don't spend more than $2000 - that's plenty of money to get a few features that suit each different interest within the hobby (eg, voice keyer for contesting, usb port for easy digital modes, etc).

As a new ham, the worst thing you could do is save for a year to get some high end radio, when you could buy any radio made since the 1980s and get on the air straight away.

Remember, before the Sherwood list, people still made Honour Roll, they still won contests, they still performed public service, and they still participated in nets.  Despite the impressions some may give you, or specs may lead you to believe, a high end radio is a luxury, not a necessity.

Take the K3 for example - plenty of people have bought them only to be unhappy and sell them a year or so later when they find its strengths (CW contesting) don't suit their needs. 

Above a dynamic range of about 80dB, it just isn't worth sacrificing ergonomics - that's why 'black box radios' like the flex, despite their incredible specs, haven't quashed the sales of high end knob radios like the Kenwood TS-990, Yaesu FTDX-5000 or Icom IC-7851.  Clicking just isn't for everyone.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on June 11, 2016, 07:59:41 AM
Thanks - I don't know if contests are on my path but what makes a good contest transceiver vs a non-contest transceiver?

Contests are a great way to polish your skills, test your antennas, and can be a great way to add to your DX totals - the bands are MUCH busier during contests than otherwise because many folks pretty much only get on the air during contests and you won't hear them otherwise.  I don't have the physical stamina to sit at the radio for a whole weekend, so I generally put in 4-8 hours in 1-2 hour sessions and try to have fun, see what my antennas can do, and try to work some new ones.

At my level, the most important things about the rig for contesting are ergonomics (can I use it without thinking about where the controls are, and does my hand naturally find the right control without looking), selectivity, and fatigue factor (some radios are tiring to use because of audio distortion, others are a joy - you have to use them to figure out which you have).  As somebody who's just starting out, I think the 7300 has more than enough of these factors to let you have a great time.   

You also may not find contests appealing for a while - I've been licensed since '61, and I didn't participate in any events other than field day for the first 20 years.  Now I find contests to be a lot of fun, but it took a long time for me to get to this point (and I'm still not competitive, just trying to have fun).
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 11, 2016, 09:22:39 AM
Thanks - I don't know if contests are on my path but what makes a good contest transceiver vs a non-contest transceiver?

Contests are a great way to polish your skills, test your antennas, and can be a great way to add to your DX totals - the bands are MUCH busier during contests than otherwise because many folks pretty much only get on the air during contests and you won't hear them otherwise.  I don't have the physical stamina to sit at the radio for a whole weekend, so I generally put in 4-8 hours in 1-2 hour sessions and try to have fun, see what my antennas can do, and try to work some new ones.

At my level, the most important things about the rig for contesting are ergonomics (can I use it without thinking about where the controls are, and does my hand naturally find the right control without looking), selectivity, and fatigue factor (some radios are tiring to use because of audio distortion, others are a joy - you have to use them to figure out which you have).  As somebody who's just starting out, I think the 7300 has more than enough of these factors to let you have a great time.   

You also may not find contests appealing for a while - I've been licensed since '61, and I didn't participate in any events other than field day for the first 20 years.  Now I find contests to be a lot of fun, but it took a long time for me to get to this point (and I'm still not competitive, just trying to have fun).

I contested in the 80s with a TR4CW, how much better is modern equipment?  I agree with everything you said, especially your first sentence.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 14, 2016, 08:00:15 PM
What I find important is phase noise, and overall noise and distortion in the audio, along with how well a radio deals with strong close unwanted signals.

Harsh, noisy audio is no fun to listen to for hours.
I have built some very low noise low distortion receivers (using tubes) that do better then many of the sdr radios I have had.
Disconnect the antenna and turn the audio gain up, what do you get?
I get almost nothing, and on the just able to copy signals the home brew RX will pull out a signal better then most modern stuff.

Something like the icom 756 pro 3 is a nasty piece of work in my book with its 70 MHz IF that gets torn up by strong signals within the wide 1st IF passband.
Plenty of hash and phase noise as well.
A receiver high in the Sherwood lists MAY be better then one way down...

I have not tried a 7300 yet but it seems like it might be good for the price...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on June 14, 2016, 08:06:48 PM
What I find important is phase noise, and overall noise and distortion in the audio, along with how well a radio deals with strong close unwanted signals.

Harsh, noisy audio is no fun to listen to for hours.
I have built some very low noise low distortion receivers (using tubes) that do better then many of the sdr radios I have had.
Disconnect the antenna and turn the audio gain up, what do you get?
I get almost nothing, and on the just able to copy signals the home brew RX will pull out a signal better then most modern stuff.

Something like the icom 756 pro 3 is a nasty piece of work in my book with its 70 MHz IF that gets torn up by strong signals within the wide 1st IF passband.
Plenty of hash and phase noise as well.
A receiver high in the Sherwood lists MAY be better then one way down...

I have not tried a 7300 yet but it seems like it might be good for the price...

Maybe someone with a 7300 can give this a try and let us know.... "Disconnect the antenna and turn the audio gain up, what do you get?"
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AC7CW on June 14, 2016, 09:27:12 PM
I have built some very low noise low distortion receivers (using tubes) that do better then many of the sdr radios I have had.


Phase noise was indeed better before pll synthesis, not sure how the older designs do vs DDS though. Have you published schematics of said radio? I'd be more than just a little interested in them.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 15, 2016, 08:36:38 AM
I have built some very low noise low distortion receivers (using tubes) that do better then many of the sdr radios I have had.


Phase noise was indeed better before pll synthesis, not sure how the older designs do vs DDS though. Have you published schematics of said radio? I'd be more than just a little interested in them.

I have looked at the specs for several of the newer radios that use DDS and the close in phase noise is about the same as a VFO.  Even VFO's have some jitter that shows up as phase noise.  Close in phase noise is the important measurement since it is within the pass band and directly adds to signal distortion.  I have a Drake R4B that is very pleasant to listen to but it cant hold a candle to any modern radio in terms of selectivity or weak signal handling in the presence of strong nearby signals. 

I played around with an IC-7300 and it was quieter than my IC-7600 which is pretty quiet under no signal conditions.  On the lower bands, 160 through 40 the background noise is usually pretty high so I don't care how quiet your receiver is you will hear it unless the radio has a dead front end.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 15, 2016, 06:01:37 PM
Was in electric radio in the past, but it is a very simple setup.
High Q link coupled input using B+W coil stock, tuned with an air variable goes directly into a mixer, triode LO using B+W coil stock, output to a 455 KHz filter (KIWA), 2 stages of IF amp, low distortion detector, add on 455KHz bfo for zero beating/cw/ssb, S meter circuit, AGC to all stages, almost all digital electronics digital display (freq counter with a 455 KHz offset, the LO runs at 100 volts, the rest runs off 150 volts.

With the dipole antenna's gain is not a problem up to 20 meters at least, on 40 meters, pulling in really weak signals, the homebrew recovers the audio much better then most radios.
The QS1R, flex 5000 and the Anan were equal, but all had some latency.
The SDR-IQ generates a LOT of hash and is used only as a band scope.

I may pick up a 7300 if the latency is very low...



I have built some very low noise low distortion receivers (using tubes) that do better then many of the sdr radios I have had.


Phase noise was indeed better before pll synthesis, not sure how the older designs do vs DDS though. Have you published schematics of said radio? I'd be more than just a little interested in them.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on June 15, 2016, 09:04:24 PM
I have not tried a 7300 yet but it seems like it might be good for the price...

Whether its at the top of the current performance charts or not, IC-7300 is certainly a bargain compared to what you had to pay 'back in the day.'  If you inflation-adjust the cost of Collins (or even EFJ or Hallicrafters, etc.) gear of the 60s, it was w-a-a-y more expensive and did far less than the 7300.  This is a good time to be a ham (OK, the sunspots could be a LOT better, but the gear is affordable and really works well).
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 16, 2016, 05:35:48 AM
Was in electric radio in the past, but it is a very simple setup.
High Q link coupled input using B+W coil stock, tuned with an air variable goes directly into a mixer, triode LO using B+W coil stock, output to a 455 KHz filter (KIWA), 2 stages of IF amp, low distortion detector, add on 455KHz bfo for zero beating/cw/ssb, S meter circuit, AGC to all stages, almost all digital electronics digital display (freq counter with a 455 KHz offset, the LO runs at 100 volts, the rest runs off 150 volts.

With the dipole antenna's gain is not a problem up to 20 meters at least, on 40 meters, pulling in really weak signals, the homebrew recovers the audio much better then most radios.
The QS1R, flex 5000 and the Anan were equal, but all had some latency.
The SDR-IQ generates a LOT of hash and is used only as a band scope.

I may pick up a 7300 if the latency is very low...



I have built some very low noise low distortion receivers (using tubes) that do better then many of the sdr radios I have had.


Phase noise was indeed better before pll synthesis, not sure how the older designs do vs DDS though. Have you published schematics of said radio? I'd be more than just a little interested in them.

Given that the latency in my SUHD TV is significantly higher than any SDR I don't think you will ever notice it.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 16, 2016, 07:50:53 AM
So, if I transmit AM say, and listen in a mod monitor or off the air on another receiver, I will notice no delay?

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 16, 2016, 10:11:58 AM
So, if I transmit AM say, and listen in a mod monitor or off the air on another receiver, I will notice no delay?



Maybe 100 ms  and only if you listen to your own signal.  The guy on the other end of the QSO won't ever see it so who cares?  People are making way to big a deal over the slew rate of the devices and those are continuing to get faster.  If that is bothersome build your own and run parallel processors, personally I see it as a non issue.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: OK4FX on June 16, 2016, 11:12:20 AM
So, if I transmit AM say, and listen in a mod monitor or off the air on another receiver, I will notice no delay?

Maybe 100 ms  and only if you listen to your own signal...

By Adam Farson VA7OJ/AB4OJ test report the transmit latency is cca 4 ms. Receive latency is cca from 3 ms to 16 ms regarding filter bandwith and mode.

If you want more detailed info then Adam Farson's document is labeled '7300notes.pdf' and you can find it for example on 7300 yahoo reflector.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 16, 2016, 11:36:21 AM
Its a non issue for most people, but not me.
Say I want to monitor my off air signal with the 7300, delay makes it hard.
If I monitor what is going out over the air so I can tell is something goes wrong, delay matters.




So, if I transmit AM say, and listen in a mod monitor or off the air on another receiver, I will notice no delay?



Maybe 100 ms  and only if you listen to your own signal.  The guy on the other end of the QSO won't ever see it so who cares?  People are making way to big a deal over the slew rate of the devices and those are continuing to get faster.  If that is bothersome build your own and run parallel processors, personally I see it as a non issue.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 16, 2016, 01:02:03 PM
Its a non issue for most people, but not me.
Say I want to monitor my off air signal with the 7300, delay makes it hard.
If I monitor what is going out over the air so I can tell is something goes wrong, delay matters.

Well it looks like OK4FX answered that for you.  The factory says 3 to 16 milliseconds delay.  Somehow I bet your ears are just not that good.  So I guess you should buy one.

It strikes me that you must have lightning fast reflexes such that even at a quarter second of delay you can catch an error and somehow correct it is just mind boggling.  I have monitored the signals on some of my homebrew analog radios and even though they have almost zero delay ( nano seconds maybe) between the monitor and the output, I was able to tell if something was wrong.  I also used to do loopbacks on intelsat birds with a full half second delay and I could still tell if there was a problem and fix it right away.  To me latency is nothing but a buzzword that has no real value.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on June 16, 2016, 02:41:32 PM
Quote
To me latency is nothing but a buzzword that has no real value.

It has plenty of value.   Latency is that magical thing that let's complainers on this forum
continue complaining.  And since life, Man, and any product ever created by them is less
than perfect, we have just discovered an endless fuel source for the grumpy complainers here....

But the rest of us simply purchase the best compromise or toy that we can, and spend the
time using it and having some fun.    The grumpy don't, and just spend time getting
more grumpy and irritable.

Smile!

[Neal ducks under the desk to avoid all the thrown rocks, tube radios, and Astron's coming his way]
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 16, 2016, 06:30:32 PM
Maybe you do not understand, I listen to my audio going out.
I have an AM modulation monitor and have gotten used to listening to my audio going out to detect anything odd going on.
I run homebrew rigs, screen and plate modulation, and just try and talk into a microphone while listening to yourself in headphones with a good amount of delay. You can not do it.

Or, say I want to adjust the audio so it sounds good in a typical passband of 4 or 5 KHz and listen in the receiver.

Its not an issue for most operators, but it is for me.

I WAS amazed how well the Anan worked on CW though.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on June 16, 2016, 06:52:47 PM
Maybe you do not understand, I listen to my audio going out.
I have an AM modulation monitor and have gotten used to listening to my audio going out to detect anything odd going on.
I run homebrew rigs, screen and plate modulation, and just try and talk into a microphone while listening to yourself in headphones with a good amount of delay. You can not do it.

Or, say I want to adjust the audio so it sounds good in a typical passband of 4 or 5 KHz and listen in the receiver.

Its not an issue for most operators, but it is for me.

I WAS amazed how well the Anan worked on CW though.


That's fair, and also not the mass-market use case.   But I certainly understand why you have that need.

Just out of curiosity;  Has anyone compiled accurate spec numbers for the latency of the popular rigs,
Like Anan, Flex 6000, Icom 7300?   I do realize it is not the general purpose use case and not a number
that would likely affect me, but it would be interesting none the less.

Cheers,

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: G4AON on June 17, 2016, 04:53:22 AM
Just out of curiosity;  Has anyone compiled accurate spec numbers for the latency of the popular rigs,
Like Anan, Flex 6000, Icom 7300?   I do realize it is not the general purpose use case and not a number
that would likely affect me, but it would be interesting none the less.
It's not just an "SDR" thing, many modern transceivers have DSP encoding and have a delay between audio at the mic socket and RF at the antenna socket. In the early days of the Elecraft K3, the designers hadn't considered that users of Amtor and Pactor needed the transmitter to hang on a few mS before going back to receive. I made an external delay circuit and found a delay of around 12mS was required to allow time for the audio to be transmitted before going back to receive. Later K3 firmware has a parameter to cater for ARQ data modes.

There is likely to also be a delay in an SDR receiver, so might give rise to odd effects when monitoring your own transmission with one. When setting up mic gain and compression, or comparing microphones, I prefer to record my transmission using my Perseus and save the file for later comparison. It's much easier to be critical when listening to a recording, although obviously wrong settings are apparent while listening live.

73 Dave
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on June 17, 2016, 05:07:08 AM
Has anyone compiled accurate spec numbers for the latency of the popular rigs,
Like Anan, Flex 6000, Icom 7300?   
7300 ~15msec, ANAN ~25msec, Flex 6K ~150msec

Barry N1EU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 17, 2016, 06:56:38 AM
Is that audio delay through the radio?
I could get the flex 5000 down low enough to not notice the delay.
Anything USB based has a LOT of delay (built in the USB system).
The Anan on Ethernet was not as good as the 5000 for some reason, sounds like they fixed that.

That 7300 spec looks great if its audio throughput, and I always thought a built in chip (FPGA and whatever) could be faster then a windoze setup, and much more stable.



Has anyone compiled accurate spec numbers for the latency of the popular rigs,
Like Anan, Flex 6000, Icom 7300?   
7300 ~15msec, ANAN ~25msec, Flex 6K ~150msec

Barry N1EU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on June 18, 2016, 03:35:27 PM
Is that audio delay through the radio?
I could get the flex 5000 down low enough to not notice the delay.
Anything USB based has a LOT of delay (built in the USB system).
The Anan on Ethernet was not as good as the 5000 for some reason, sounds like they fixed that.

That 7300 spec looks great if its audio throughput, and I always thought a built in chip (FPGA and whatever) could be faster then a windoze setup, and much more stable.



Has anyone compiled accurate spec numbers for the latency of the popular rigs,
Like Anan, Flex 6000, Icom 7300?  
7300 ~15msec, ANAN ~25msec, Flex 6K ~150msec

Barry N1EU

Is the goal to listen to yourself live a la radio DJ, or to use a monitor function to set a bandpass and go with it? Those are two completely different things. Using a realtime live monitor to set your own live spoken audio will get you a result that sounds good to YOU, in your head. It won't sound the same to us out here listening to you.

25ms or less delay is inconsequential to listening back to oneself. Musicians in music ensembles routinely stay in sync with up to 40ms of latency.

IMHO, to properly set ones own audio by ear, it is better to have several seconds of delay. In fact, even better to have a flat unprocessed recording of yourself at 0 fed into the radio and sit back and listen and adjust to your liking.

Just my point of view after years behind a live mic.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 18, 2016, 06:54:25 PM
Yes, that is all true, but I find it useful to monitor the outgoing audio.
I have gotten used to doing it.

Its not important I guess, I would not run a 7300 as a transmitter on AM at such low power.
It might be handy on the RX part though.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 18, 2016, 08:22:08 PM
Yes, that is all true, but I find it useful to monitor the outgoing audio.
I have gotten used to doing it.

Its not important I guess, I would not run a 7300 as a transmitter on AM at such low power.
It might be handy on the RX part though.


That's why God made linear amplifiers.  By the way, I have found that in almost every case the person or group that I am in QSO with will tell me if something is wrong with my signal.  I fid monitoring my own audio functionally useless.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 19, 2016, 05:42:18 PM
In my case, I have a bunch of homebrew rigs that run more power then I can use, and an amplifier would waste a lot of power on AM.

If you like looking at pictures:

https://n2dts.smugmug.com/Ham-radio/

One rig can run easy at 700 watts carrier and 3kw pep, but I mostly use screen modulated rigs which are very fussy about loading, swr, etc.
You can get RF into things, or have a crapout and not know it.

Like I said, I have gotten used to it after 35 years...
 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on June 19, 2016, 06:27:08 PM
Yes, that is all true, but I find it useful to monitor the outgoing audio.
I have gotten used to doing it.

Its not important I guess, I would not run a 7300 as a transmitter on AM at such low power.
It might be handy on the RX part though.


Speaking of audio;  2 of us drove over to Ham Radio Outlet on Saturday to play with the 7300,
and switch A,B,C with the 7300, a Yaesu FT-DX3000, and a Yaesu FT-991.

I found the Icom 7300 to have a noisier hashier receive audio quality, than the other two
Yaesu rigs.  But, disclaimer, I don't have much experience with the Icom 7300.  We did try
to adjust the tone settings, and finally, we hooked up the Clear Mountain CLRdsp box to the
speaker output of the ICOM 7300, and it made the thing easier to listen to.

I hear great reports about the TX audio quality for the Icom 7300.  What do other people (who have actually
used it) think about the receive audio quality, and the sensitivity to weak signals?

Thanks,

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N8CM on June 20, 2016, 05:29:38 AM
I have had mine for over a month now, I don't use the external speaker at all and rarely do I use phone. When I do use phone, I have an Heil Proset 6 IC headset and have found the audio to be a none issue.  Everyone has their own preference to how they want their audio to sound. When a strong signal is tuned in, the audio sounds like the other ham is right next to me, but that is me.  Weak signals, are a bit tinny, I have found that to be the case when I had my IC-7200.  When it comes to digital, the 7300 is far superior to the 7200, and the added scope is a great benefit to finding those weak signals.



I think relying on the internal speaker of any radio, the output is not going to be what many expect.  I have only owned three HF rigs in my 28 years in amateur radio, I always relied on a head set instead of using the built in speaker.  I am sure that using any external DSP speakers will enhance the audio of even the worst sounding internal speakers.  Adding a high performance speaker into any radio would only increase the price of the radio.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on June 20, 2016, 10:29:18 AM
Yes, that is all true, but I find it useful to monitor the outgoing audio.
I have gotten used to doing it.

Its not important I guess, I would not run a 7300 as a transmitter on AM at such low power.
It might be handy on the RX part though.


Speaking of audio;  2 of us drove over to Ham Radio Outlet on Saturday to play with the 7300,
and switch A,B,C with the 7300, a Yaesu FT-DX3000, and a Yaesu FT-991.

I found the Icom 7300 to have a noisier hashier receive audio quality, than the other two
Yaesu rigs.  But, disclaimer, I don't have much experience with the Icom 7300.  We did try
to adjust the tone settings, and finally, we hooked up the Clear Mountain CLRdsp box to the
speaker output of the ICOM 7300, and it made the thing easier to listen to.

I hear great reports about the TX audio quality for the Icom 7300.  What do other people (who have actually
used it) think about the receive audio quality, and the sensitivity to weak signals?

Thanks,

Neal

If I could make a suggestion.... Join the Yahoo IC7300 group. Yes, the opinions may be biased a bit. Have you read the "Reviews" section of the radio here on eHam?

Having said all that, I have a lot of radios in my collection. I use my Icom 756PRO on 6M almost daily. The 7300 is superior in weak signal conditions. Yes, the technology slowly marches on. I bought the PRO, in Tokyo, the week it was announced, so it was state of the art for a while. The 7300 is just plain fun to use......

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on June 20, 2016, 07:37:00 PM
Yes, that is all true, but I find it useful to monitor the outgoing audio.
I have gotten used to doing it.

Its not important I guess, I would not run a 7300 as a transmitter on AM at such low power.
It might be handy on the RX part though.


Most AM purists run amplifiers driven by 100w (25w AM) rigs, or dedicated exciters. Some Viking users go 100% Commando and sound awesome. Not sure why this sort of qualification and negative comment for the 7300. It is fully capable of driving an amp just like any other "100w" rig. Possibly with cleaner audio than some traditional options.

Need some input from actual users who have used it in this configuration... Any takers?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 21, 2016, 04:27:58 PM

Most AM purists run amplifiers driven by 100w (25w AM) rigs, or dedicated exciters. Some Viking users go 100% Commando and sound awesome. Not sure why this sort of qualification and negative comment for the 7300. It is fully capable of driving an amp just like any other "100w" rig. Possibly with cleaner audio than some traditional options.

I am a frequent AM user in the Winter Time. Mostly I use my  Viking Valiant at 140 watts AM carrier or about 560 watts PEP. Many hams on AM use Vintage Equipment.

When I owned a Flexradio 5K about 5 years ago I gave the Flex a go on AM. Everyone said it sounded "ok" but at 25 watts it was kinda weak. 25 watts AM ain't enough fire if your buddy is RXing on a 1950's receiver. So I fired up Big AL, my Al-1500 amplifier and gave it the 25 watts from the Flex 5K. This produced around 700-900 watts pep.

Most of the time my AM friends did not know if I was on the Flex or Viking Valiant, the audio was that good.

I would not be surprised if the 7300 did the same. One caveat, make sure your AMP can take what you want out of it on AM.  ;)

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 22, 2016, 05:38:14 PM
AM has everything, old broadcast transmitters, old and new Ham transmitters, sdr's into amps, class E rigs, homebrew rigs of every kind.
The flex radios had the advantage of being very clean in modulation, and the 5000 had no real bandwidth limitation, a good and bad thing depending on things.

It also had neat things like one button recording and playback (with no alteration of the sound), and the usual great flex audio and filters/rx performance.
A nice rig to run into a big heavy duty amp if you want.

Many guys run modulation monitors and some monitor their audio as was done on live broadcast, and excessive delay would make that unusable.

I have a recording of someone I know on a 7300 and the TX audio sounds great to me, not hifi 20 to 20K (which is stupid on the ham bands) but it sounds clean, natural and real.

Many (most) modern rigs sound bad on RX, the high end sdr's are worlds better then the old rigs.
Feed a good sdr into a nice audio amp and speaker and you CAN rx hifi.
Low noise, low distortion, reasonable frequency response...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 22, 2016, 05:48:22 PM

 the high end sdr's are worlds better then the old rigs.

Hardly. My HQ-150 is one of the best radios I have ever owned when listening on AM mode. My Flexradio 5000 was not even close to the RX sound quality of the old Hammarlund. Can't beat those old tubed RX's from the 50's for great listening on AM.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 22, 2016, 07:33:16 PM

 the high end sdr's are worlds better then the old rigs.

Hardly. My HQ-150 is one of the best radios I have ever owned when listening on AM mode. My Flexradio 5000 was not even close to the RX sound quality of the old Hammarlund. Can't beat those old tubed RX's from the 50's for great listening on AM.

Stan K9IUQ

Have to agree with that, I have an HQ-180 and it sounds fantastic on AM.  Those radios were designed primarily for AM reception.  I have a Johnson Ranger that I have had for 45 years.  About 20 years ago I did the HLR mods to it and it sounds great.  I used to drive a Henry 2K amp at 200 watts carrier and it did a fine job.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4KOE on June 23, 2016, 05:15:53 AM
New toobs in that Valiant?? I'm lucky to get 120-130 watts out of mine.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on June 23, 2016, 05:19:57 AM
You might prefer the sound of your old tubed receivers (and they DO sound great), but my ANAN rx audio response is flatter, wider, lower noise, lower distortion,etc and simply "better."  It presents an open window into what the other guy is transmitting, especially through the right headphones/speakers.

Barry N1EU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 23, 2016, 05:22:57 AM
New toobs in that Valiant?? I'm lucky to get 120-130 watts out of mine.

My Valiant uses the Heathkit HM-102 SWR/Wattmeter and it could be "off". I have never compared it to my highly accurate LP-100A..  ;)

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 23, 2016, 06:34:23 AM
Exactly.
I have had some nice old receivers with nice push pull audio output, the old ones were HIFI, the Scott SLRM has no driver transformer and runs a pair of 25l6's in push pull, and even has a hifi bandwidth position (broad as a barn door), the SX17 had a very hifi setup as well, but they did NOT to 5 Hz to 20 KHz with .01% distortion and sync detection.

The flex 5000/3000, the QS1R, and some others had VERY good audio if fed into a nice amp and speaker (Marantz here).
The old stuff can be good, but lacks all modern features, like accurate freq readout, stability, filters, spectrum scope.

I would like to know if you feed line level audio out of the icom into a nice amp and speaker, how does it sound?




You might prefer the sound of your old tubed receivers (and they DO sound great), but my ANAN rx audio response is flatter, wider, lower noise, lower distortion,etc and simply "better."  It presents an open window into what the other guy is transmitting, especially through the right headphones/speakers.

Barry N1EU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 23, 2016, 07:01:02 AM
The flex 5000/3000, the QS1R, and some others had VERY good audio if fed into a nice amp and speaker (Marantz here).

The old stuff can be good, but lacks all modern features,



I had a Flex 5000 and still have a QSR1. Neither had/has the great AM RX audio of my Hammarlunds HQ-150, and HQ-160.

You are right that the old stuff lacks modern features. But the old stuff has Knobs and can heat the shack in the Winter.  :) :)

FWIW I have pumped the audio from my Flex 5K and QS1R thru a high end Yamaha HiFi receiver with Klipsch speakers. Still not up the standards of the old tubed RX's.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N1EU on June 23, 2016, 11:30:51 AM
FWIW, you just appended my name and callsign to a quote that I didn't make. N2DTS said this:

"The flex 5000/3000, the QS1R, and some others had VERY good audio if fed into a nice amp and speaker (Marantz here).  The old stuff can be good, but lacks all modern features,"
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 23, 2016, 12:00:29 PM
FWIW, you just appended my name and callsign to a quote that I didn't make. N2DTS said this:

Whoops, my Bad. Poor editing on my part. Sorry......

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 23, 2016, 12:22:35 PM
I just got back from poking the screen of a 7300.
The display is very nice, but its small.
The touch screen is nice, but I would want more knobs, too much stuff is in menu's or not so easy to figure out.
The only thing I could get on the radio was AM band broadcast which sounded ok with the built in speaker.

As an inexpensive radio, its ok I suppose, but I would much rather operate a flex 5000 or Anan with a big screen and plenty of buttons on it.
I guess I would rate it like a really well working small radio that is overly complex to operate.

Made me think of the icom 735 I have had, small, but the 735 was VERY easy to operate and figure out, NO menu's.
The 7300 has no band buttons, took me 10 minutes to figure out you can just touch the megacycle numbers on the screen to change bands.
I never did figure out how to change the scope bandwidth.

I almost thought I would bring one home till I used it some, but I have no desire to own one anymore.

Performance is fine, its just too small with not enough controls for my taste.
On a small radio, I want all the basic controls on knobs/buttons (like the 735 or the 756 pro series).
On an sdr, I want a BIG screen with lots of buttons on it, touch screen or not.



 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC2QYM on June 24, 2016, 08:34:19 AM
Sorry but I will never like touch screen rigs..OK for phones or iPads but I still prefer knobs.  I am hoarding all the old rigs I can get my hands on so I'll have backups for backups, etc. Keep those radio/computer hybrids...they're not for me even if the receivers are supposedly that great.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on June 24, 2016, 09:54:42 AM
Sorry but I will never like touch screen rigs..OK for phones or iPads but I still prefer knobs.  I am hoarding all the old rigs I can get my hands on so I'll have backups for backups, etc. Keep those radio/computer hybrids...they're not for me even if the receivers are supposedly that great.

The Flex Maestro is an interesting mix of touch and knobs - you can ignore the touch features if you want and just use the knobs.  The screen is big enough that even I don't have to squint.

One concern, though, with modern gear, especially the stuff that uses fancy displays, is how long they'll last.  If the touchscreen on your rig goes out 8 or 10 years from now, will there be a replacement that fits/works with the rig?  The whole rig could become trashworthy if just one obsolete and no-longer-available part goes south.  With older gear, you might have to fuss with dial strings that break or capacitors that short, but you can fix those problems.  There's a guy I work on 40 meters regularly who has a BC348 receiver that's older than I am (and I'm almost 70) that he's been able to keep in working order.  We're gradually moving into an era of disposable-because-it-isn't-fixable gear.

The counter-argument is that even if the gear is disposable, what you get in terms of performance while it still works is MUCH cheaper than in the old days.  The IC-7300 is breathtakingly cheap in terms of what it does and how well it does it compared to anything you could buy a few decades ago.  If you only get 5-10 years out of it maybe that's ok.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AC7CW on June 24, 2016, 10:01:38 AM
Sorry but I will never like touch screen rigs..OK for phones or iPads but I still prefer knobs.  I am hoarding all the old rigs I can get my hands on so I'll have backups for backups, etc. Keep those radio/computer hybrids...they're not for me even if the receivers are supposedly that great.

I've had Android and Apple smartphones and I never learned to like the touchscreens. My iPhone just doesn't respond sometimes. That sucks because you never know if it's not responding at all or if it's just stuck in some background task. All of them won't accept a tap with a little sideways motion component to it. American companies tend to bring out stuff that "promises a lot and delivers squat", then once they have their monopoly in place they don't feel compelled to fix anything.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on June 24, 2016, 11:14:57 AM
Sorry but I will never like touch screen rigs..OK for phones or iPads but I still prefer knobs.  I am hoarding all the old rigs I can get my hands on so I'll have backups for backups, etc. Keep those radio/computer hybrids...they're not for me even if the receivers are supposedly that great.

The Flex Maestro is an interesting mix of touch and knobs - you can ignore the touch features if you want and just use the knobs.  The screen is big enough that even I don't have to squint.

One concern, though, with modern gear, especially the stuff that uses fancy displays, is how long they'll last.  If the touchscreen on your rig goes out 8 or 10 years from now, will there be a replacement that fits/works with the rig?  The whole rig could become trashworthy if just one obsolete and no-longer-available part goes south.  With older gear, you might have to fuss with dial strings that break or capacitors that short, but you can fix those problems.  There's a guy I work on 40 meters regularly who has a BC348 receiver that's older than I am (and I'm almost 70) that he's been able to keep in working order.  We're gradually moving into an era of disposable-because-it-isn't-fixable gear.

The counter-argument is that even if the gear is disposable, what you get in terms of performance while it still works is MUCH cheaper than in the old days.  The IC-7300 is breathtakingly cheap in terms of what it does and how well it does it compared to anything you could buy a few decades ago.  If you only get 5-10 years out of it maybe that's ok.

True. Pretty much everything electronic and mechanical today (except maybe a real expensive item like a car) is worthy of a "fix it" vs "dispose it" decision. If it's not fixable (no parts available), there is no decision. With the high cost of parts, labor, and maybe shipping, is it worth it to repair something that's 10 years old, with obsolete technology, if the cost of repair is 1/3 to 1/2 it's original price? Especially if you can replace it with the latest technology substitute that costs much less than the broken one originally did? You have to consider it's value to you for the time you used it. If you were happy using that $3,000 radio for 10 years, that's $300/year (or $25/month) for contented value of usage. Did you get your money's worth? Everything eventually wears out (even your body :-[), and if you have it fixed, what's to say it won't start nickel and diming you to death? Well, with your body, consider the alternative. :D   
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on June 24, 2016, 04:59:39 PM
There is a QST review of the 7300 available online....

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W6RZ on June 24, 2016, 05:41:02 PM
Direct link is:

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/protected/Group/Members/ProductReview/PROD_REV_0816.pdf

But you have to be an ARRL member and logged in.

I did notice that the 2 kHz two-tone dynamic range is 100 dB with IP+ on and the preamp on. Should the IC-7300 rank be moved up in the Sherwood table?  ;)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 24, 2016, 05:50:19 PM
Well, what about transistors and IC chips that are no longer made?
I think some radios ran into those issues, as well as screens going bad (icom 746?).


A touch screen is not an issue for me, but there needs to be everything you need to use on the screen without digging through menu's.
PowerSDR would be great with a touch screen, all the important stuff is on the screen.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZENKI on June 24, 2016, 08:32:07 PM
Certainly more than enough receiver performance but its transmitter will always remain on the bottom of the pile like IC7851.

 Using excuses like "you can turn down the power" to have a clean drive signal is a pathetic design excuse for not designing the PA properly. So if you want a 100 watt clean signal you need to buy a 200 watt radio so that you can have semi clean signal at 100 watts. The ARRL needs to stop making excuses for radio like the IC7851 and IC7300 whose transmitters are from clean.

When i start seeing transmitters  whose IMD is suppressed 50db at 5khz or have 3rd order IMD  performance of around -40db and 11th order around 70 to 80 db I might start having respect for these radios.

We just fooling ourselves these receivers with such high IMD dynamic range are some how going to save us when its rarely going to be noticed in the real world. What would save us is having transmitters with the best performance. Even the ARRL finally acknowledged this in a subtle way in the review of the IC7851. We need more transmitter performance improvements The IC7300 would have been a perfect radio in every way if it did have a cleaner transmitter and fully calibrated S-meter and waterfall, we could have turned new page in ham radio design.  Maybe Icom will considered these improvements in the new IC7600 version of the IC7300. We can only live in hope that we dont get another radio with a terrible transmitter performance. Maybe they will get it one day!

It will nice waking up one day with a radio review that has glowing receiver and transmitter performance. Nobody ranks transmitter performance which is a shame. If there was a league table of transmitter performance like the Sherwood list on receiver performance hams would understand what all this preaching is about.

Direct link is:

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/protected/Group/Members/ProductReview/PROD_REV_0816.pdf

But you have to be an ARRL member and logged in.

I did notice that the 2 kHz two-tone dynamic range is 100 dB with IP+ on and the preamp on. Should the IC-7300 rank be moved up in the Sherwood table?  ;)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on June 24, 2016, 09:44:57 PM
You know, honestly, I respect everyone's opinion. But I get a kick out of those that opine strongly on equipment without substantiation from extensive on-air experience in crowded conditions and poor propagation...such as major contests. You look them up on qrz.com, and judging by the number of views, they spend little time operating. Also their comments are usually something that says..."I usually like to ragchew on 10 meters and our group on 3.825, and also occasionally chase DX". You don't need a great radio to get into a DXpedition pileup working split. IMO, true radio reviewers are the hard core contesters that have to battle extreme QRM, QRN, and how reliable the equipment is under long-term continuous operation. They may have their pet radios, but at least their reviews have some substance and authenticity. And they don't have to be electronic geniuses. Just have the experience to say..."This radio really does the job." Sometimes despite Sherwood numbers.

It seems that the casual operators I described just offer contrary opinions for the sake of argument, and to rattle people's cages. Even if something is blatantly true right under their noses, they'll offer the opposite view. Just my observation. The people I have described will obviously disagree  ::)



K7JQ:

Don't tell me you are just now figuring this out about people and their behavior? :-)
How many school yards did you grow up in?   Large companies did you work at?
Union or Government jobs?   There are a fair number of people that just love to be
a contrarian for the sake of mouthing off.   They have nothing useful to offer.
They rarely help others, but relish in the idea of offending others.  It is the only
sad pathetic entertainment they can find.

Don't sweat it.  Ignore it.   Always been there, always will be.

Now, to the people who are sharing REAL experience, and actually use radios a lot,
contest, or build them, or even, heaven forbid, really own an IC-7300;  Thanks for sharing,
we love learning.

Cheers,

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on June 25, 2016, 07:35:31 AM
You know, honestly, I respect everyone's opinion. But I get a kick out of those that opine strongly on equipment without substantiation from extensive on-air experience in crowded conditions and poor propagation...such as major contests. You look them up on qrz.com, and judging by the number of views, they spend little time operating. Also their comments are usually something that says..."I usually like to ragchew on 10 meters and our group on 3.825, and also occasionally chase DX". You don't need a great radio to get into a DXpedition pileup working split. IMO, true radio reviewers are the hard core contesters that have to battle extreme QRM, QRN, and how reliable the equipment is under long-term continuous operation. They may have their pet radios, but at least their reviews have some substance and authenticity. And they don't have to be electronic geniuses. Just have the experience to say..."This radio really does the job." Sometimes despite Sherwood numbers.

It seems that the casual operators I described just offer contrary opinions for the sake of argument, and to rattle people's cages. Even if something is blatantly true right under their noses, they'll offer the opposite view. Just my observation. The people I have described will obviously disagree  ::)



K7JQ:

Don't tell me you are just now figuring this out about people and their behavior? :-)
How many school yards did you grow up in?   Large companies did you work at?
Union or Government jobs?   There are a fair number of people that just love to be
a contrarian for the sake of mouthing off.   They have nothing useful to offer.
They rarely help others, but relish in the idea of offending others.  It is the only
sad pathetic entertainment they can find.

Don't sweat it.  Ignore it.   Always been there, always will be.

Now, to the people who are sharing REAL experience, and actually use radios a lot,
contest, or build them, or even, heaven forbid, really own an IC-7300;  Thanks for sharing,
we love learning.

Cheers,

Neal

Neal:

Guess I led a sheltered life...just figuring it out at age 70.  ;D
Unfortunately, the "contrarians" are like the Energizer Bunny. They keep going, and going, and going..... ::)

BTW, I just read on the Acom amp Yahoo forum that there have been some reports of the IC-7300 exhibiting RF spike overshoot issues, causing some damage to an SPE Expert SS amp. Happens when driving them with 10-50 watts. Icom responded with "don't use compression when running an amp". Just what I read...no first-hand substantiation. Anyone else hear this?

73,  Bob K7JQ

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 25, 2016, 08:45:30 AM
Direct link is:

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/protected/Group/Members/ProductReview/PROD_REV_0816.pdf

But you have to be an ARRL member and logged in.

I did notice that the 2 kHz two-tone dynamic range is 100 dB with IP+ on and the preamp on. Should the IC-7300 rank be moved up in the Sherwood table?  ;)

I believe it should be elevated several notches but really it doesn't matter because I always do research before I buy any radio and Rob site is just one of several.

The buzz about the transmitter is unsubstantiated nonsense, Icom has never had a transmitter that suffered from overshoot or even moderate distortion.  If anything they have the cleanest transmit chain of any of the big three and Icoms always get great on air audio reports.  Any radio can be set up wrong by someone who doesn't know what they are doing but when the 7300 is correctly adjusted the audio is cleaner than about 98 percent of of the radios you will encounter on the air.

Funny how the same few people are so upset by the low cost entry level radio that they feel compelled to continue to find ways to try and bash it.  Kind of funny actually, the Icom 7300 is a superb little radio that costs less than most SDR guys spend on their computers alone.  Even the ARRL has to admit the IC-7300 is a game changer.   

If all you haters want to do some serious measuring then why not go after the IC-7851, I bet you can find all kinds of stuff not to like about it.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 25, 2016, 09:24:09 AM
With all the misleading information I am reading here I thought it was time to chime in with some real-world, actual field reporting on the 7300.

I picked up one of these cute 7300's in Tokyo in mid-January (¥120,000, approx US$980 at the time).  I just got through using it on a 10-day DXpedition in Timor-Leste as 4W/N1YC. This was a true 'blind-date'.  I wouldn't normally take an untested, 1st production, low-serial number rig on a DXpedition in a less than ideal environment, but I figured here was my chance to put a brand new radio through the paces.  As a seasoned user of many radios (SDR's included) and 250,000 QSO's in the log from my home QTH of 9V1YC,  I feel I'm pretty well qualified to give this a try.  (Certainly more than most of the complainers I am reading on this forum, some of whom haven't even touched a 7300 yet).

NOTE:  The 7300 is also not a contest-grade radio with sub-receivers, external RX antenna inputs and other useful features, so its not fair to measure it against a K3 or other high-end radio. This mini-review is just letting you know how Icom's new SDR performed in a tough DXpedition environment, and how it felt to me.

The setup was as follows:  We had two stations, side-by-side, running full tilt for 10 days. The second station was a K2, and we also had another K2 as a backup rig just in case the 7300 turned out to be a disaster.  Each station had a Tokyo Hy-Power HL-550fx running 500W and a set of Dunestar bandpass filters. Both stations were using Hustler 6BTV's with 60 radials each.   We were at a nice location facing North - about 50m from the high tide mark, and 30m up on a hillside.   (We've used this spot on two previous trips, and clocked up about 35,000 QSOs on 2014 and 2015).

Our shack location was on a covered outdoor deck facing the sea, in a high-humidity, high-dust, high electrical noise area with sea-spray, wind and rain thrown in for good measure.  Just about as tough as it gets.  The previous trips used a K2 and a TS-590, but this time we swapped out the TS-590 for the 7300, and brought an extra K2 as both a backup (and an a A-B comparison).  We knew the K2 could take this nasty environment, but we had no idea how the 7300 would perform.

The 7300 was an immense pleasure to operate.  I mean that in every way. I was expecting the worst but this little radio was a sheer joy to operate.  The receiver was simply beautiful - especially to my ears with are normally used to the sound of a K3, IC-7600 or TS-590 in a contest.  Pileups were smooth and easy to run at high rate.  The 7300 definitely has amazing ears.  On the few times I swapped it out for the K2 as a comparison I noticed that the 7300 was more sensitive than the K2, but nothing that was heard on one radio couldn't be copied on the other. In fact, I felt the 7300 had the edge at times - especially on 10/12 and 15m.  For the record, I do love the my old analog K2, and for extended periods of non-stop pileup shoveling I feel the K2 is probably gentler on the ears.  (Any K2 owner will know what I am talking about).

We did have some inter-station interference from time to time (as we always do on these trips). The first thing we did when that happened was swap out the 7300 to the backup K2, just to make sure it wasn't the 7300 which was dirty.  No major difference was noted on any band, so we concluded the 7300's TX was not the culprit.

The filters were as good or better as anything I've used on other high-end Icoms, and the settings are easy to manage through the touch-screen menus. Any 7600/7700/7800 user will have no trouble using this rig out of the box.  No manual required.  The touch screen was something new to me, but after a while I found myself really enjoying it compared to a regular radio. Especially the Elecraft push-and hold kind of situation which I hate.  

The scope is not something I really use when behind a pileup, but I did play with it every now and then when the rate dropped and I was bored.  Its extremely sharp, but that's to be expected from an SDR.

The real stand-out feature of the 7300 is the noise blanker.  Being in a poor, 3rd-world country with badly maintained vehicles and terrible power distribution means there was noise all over the place.  Really bad, S9 crap almost all the time.  The 7300's noise blanker cut through just about everything that was thrown at it, and I was able to clock over 8000 QSO's in 9 days.  I even managed to run the last few hours of the ARRL DX contest without any problems (which is no small feat from 9000 miles away and a crummy Hustler 6BTV).    I have never heard a noise blanker this good, and on that point it left the K2 in the dust. Literally.  (yes, I know the K2 has a pathetic noise blanker.....)

BTW - I noticed none of the complaints "ZENKI" is talking about on this forum, so perhaps his 7300 is from a different batch?  Not sure where he got his test rig from.  Anyway, for the record I noticed no PA power spikes, no spurs, no ALC overshoots, no IMD problems, and the S-meter was bang on target when compared to my TS-590, IC-7600 and two different K2s back here at home.

The rig was run at 90W all the time, and the PA temperature reading never really moved upward the entire trip.  The heat sink felt cool whenever I touched it. The 7300 was also coated in dust and sea-spray almost non-stop, and had to be wiped down almost every hour.  At times the touch-screen was so coated with crud that I could write my initials on it.   None of these external annoyances interfered with the rig's operation, and it never missed a beat.

Again, this review is not meant to compare the 7300 against the K2 since the two are entirely different radios, and that's an apples and oranges type of situation. This review was also not meant to compare it against a K3, 7600, 590 or any other rig.   This was simply to see how Icom's new SDR would perform under pressure, and how it felt to my own ears.  (Everyone has their favorite radio, and everyone has their own "my rig is better than your rig" story, so lets leave that for another thread, ok?).

There are lots more things I can say here that are technical (like PC interfacing) but I will answer those questions if anyone has them.

Bottom line:  I made a ton of QSO's, had a great time, and simply love this radio. Its a real gem.

Feel free to ask me any questions.  Happy to reply (with what I know so far....).

73  James 9V1YC

p.s. Yes, we even made some QSO's on 6m too.  About 43 JA's.


Then we find Icom breaks the basic SDR direct sampling design.

Un-calibrated  waterfall and S-meter and a transmitter that has all the design failures of the legacy transmitters. ALC  overshoot, a PA with power spikes and poor IMD. Then we have to see if they have a noise transmitter than generates wide band noise and other spurious products. I wont be holding my breath when it comes to a new Icom radio model.



Evidently a lot of people failed to read your post before posting mis-information about the IC-7300.  Thank you for posting your real world experience using this new radio and dispelling the nonsense posted by ZENKI and others.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 25, 2016, 09:45:02 AM
Funny how the same few people are so upset by the low cost entry level radio that they feel compelled to continue to find ways to try and bash it.  Kind of funny actually, the Icom 7300 is a superb little radio that costs less than most SDR guys spend on their computers alone.

Even the ARRL has to admit the IC-7300 is a game changer.  

This is why you see hate on the 7300 from certain eHamers. The 7300 IS a game changer. The Haters are worried because they are invested in $5K plus SDR's  that will be in jeopardy when Icom introduces the SDR that replaces a Ic-7600. Make no mistake, these haters are afraid, very afraid that their SDR's will become obsolete and the company(s) that make them will be Ten-Tec(ed).

You can Ignore Zenki's comments as he says the same old, same old about EVERY new radio and has done so for years here on eHam.  

As far as the xmit overshoot I suggest you read the article from QST. You will see mention of 7300 SSB overshoot. Normally I would quote the article but since it is copyrighted and for ARRL members I will not.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on June 25, 2016, 02:31:53 PM
This is why you see hate on the 7300 from certain eHamers. The 7300 IS a game changer. The Haters are worried because they are invested in $5K plus SDR's  that will be in jeopardy when Icom introduces the SDR that replaces a Ic-7600. Make no mistake, these haters are afraid, very afraid that their SDR's will become obsolete and the company(s) that make them will be Ten-Tec(ed).

I suspect the IC-7300 is going to turn out to be pretty profitable for Icom - early rumors were that the target price was going to be US$1K and some units were sold overseas at about that price, but now that it has been released in quantity they're selling all they can make at $1500. 

Haven't seen one myself yet but the reviews (including ARRL) are certainly glowing.  Not bad for an 'entry level' rig.  Looks like it outperforms my trusty ProIII that I paid 2x that much for 10 years ago.  It probably doesn't outperform my 6500+Maestro but you could buy 3 IC-7300s and have $900 left over for what that cost.  The Maestro alone costs about the same as the IC-7300 and it's just a control head ...

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 25, 2016, 08:23:32 PM
What is the big deal with a calibrated S meter?
You have the radio hooked up to an antenna, with coax, and no two are equal.
Low dipole, high dipole, beam, G5RV, and about 100 other types of antenna/feedline setups over various grounds and near field objects and a calibrated S meter is important ?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on June 26, 2016, 12:17:58 PM
Calibrated S-meters, don't exist. There is no such thing.
Each radio manufacture selects a signal level to calibrate the meter.
ICOM, selected the level of 50uV at 14mhz as equal to S-9. There is NO industry standard. However, it is generally accepted that each S meter division is roughly equal to 6dB.
Outside of these, it's all relative, dependent on a large number of installation variables.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on June 26, 2016, 04:19:23 PM
Calibrated S-meters, don't exist. There is no such thing.
Each radio manufacture selects a signal level to calibrate the meter.
ICOM, selected the level of 50uV at 14mhz as equal to S-9. There is NO industry standard. However, it is generally accepted that each S meter division is roughly equal to 6dB.
Outside of these, it's all relative, dependent on a large number of installation variables.

My first receiver was a Command Set RX (BC-454?), no S-Meter.  I give RST reports based on what I hear, not what any meter says - you can tell how loud somebody is without looking.  No calibration needed ;-)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on June 26, 2016, 05:12:36 PM
Calibrated S-meters, don't exist. There is no such thing.
Each radio manufacture selects a signal level to calibrate the meter.
ICOM, selected the level of 50uV at 14mhz as equal to S-9. There is NO industry standard. However, it is generally accepted that each S meter division is roughly equal to 6dB.
Outside of these, it's all relative, dependent on a large number of installation variables.

My first receiver was a Command Set RX (BC-454?), no S-Meter.  I give RST reports based on what I hear, not what any meter says - you can tell how loud somebody is without looking.  No calibration needed ;-)

The only uses of an S-meter that I can see is:
 1. If a guy wants to know the difference between him being barefoot and throwing his amp on. Or turning his beam. And even those are dependent on propagation and QSB.
 2. If I'm trying to track down the source of some household generated noise.

Other than that, who cares about calibration. Every mfr is different. Try contesting...ever get a report less than 599? :D

73,  Bob K7JQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 27, 2016, 08:58:45 AM
Field day results are beginning to trickle in and it looks like the 7300 performs well in multi-op situations.  All of the reports I have read so far say that they did not experience an overload condition even while operating on the same band as another rig in on instance.

 So chalk up another reason to like the little entry level radio that according to some would burst into flames under such conditions. ;D

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on June 27, 2016, 10:41:05 AM
Field day results are beginning to trickle in and it looks like the 7300 performs well in multi-op situations.  All of the reports I have read so far say that they did not experience an overload condition even while operating on the same band as another rig in on instance.

I've heard similar reports - no complaints at all from anybody who used one on Field Day.

I know they've classed the IC-7300 as 'entry level' but unless I'm missing something, I don't see many features that I'd want that are missing.  2nd or 3rd antenna port would be nice, but not essential.  2nd RX or dual-watch also nice but as long as it handles split with the ability to easily toggle the receiver between the two frequencies, no big deal.  Screen is a little small but I'm not seeing many complaints.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: M0GVZ on June 27, 2016, 12:43:27 PM
There is NO industry standard

Yeah actually there is. The IARU standard is 6dB per S point with S9 set at 50.1uV or -73dBm. You will find most amateur radio S meters are calibrated to S9 at -73dBm. Kenwood, Icom and Yaesu do tend to use 3dB per S point for S1 to S9 due to the fact Muricans seem to think that the higher the needle goes the better the receiver is.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9IQ on June 27, 2016, 01:43:07 PM
To be correct, it is not an IARU standard. It is a technical recommendation from Region1 in 1981 that was never approved by any standards body. It is interesting to note that the recommended S9 level is different for HF than for 2 meters and up. Their TR also omitted any recommendations between 30 MHZ and 144MHz.

- Glenn W9IQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on June 27, 2016, 09:54:31 PM
Quote from: K7JQ
Neal:

Guess I led a sheltered life...just figuring it out at age 70.  ;D
Unfortunately, the "contrarians" are like the Energizer Bunny. They keep going, and going, and going..... ::)

BTW, I just read on the Acom amp Yahoo forum that there have been some reports of the IC-7300 exhibiting RF spike overshoot issues, causing some damage to an SPE Expert SS amp. Happens when driving them with 10-50 watts. Icom responded with "don't use compression when running an amp". Just what I read...no first-hand substantiation. Anyone else hear this?

73,  Bob K7JQ

I have not yet.  But I would think that this should be VERY easy to see on a scope.
You just use a watt meter probe that has a coupler/attenuator output, and plug that into
a scope.  You can trigger and watch the RF envelope amplitude quite easily.
I have a 7300 on order.  It should be here by the weekend.   I also happen to have
a digital storage scope and a WaveNode digital watt meter with attenuated RFview output.
Should be a piece of cake to monitor transmit cycles visually and see what is going on,
if anything.

Cheers,

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on June 28, 2016, 04:01:44 AM
Should be a piece of cake to monitor transmit cycles visually and see what is going on,
if anything.

Cheers,

Neal

The ARRL lab found 7300 SSB overshoot and it is mentioned in the sidebar of the QST review.......

Stan K9IUQ

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3RSW on June 28, 2016, 06:19:23 AM
Specifically in "lab notes."

May not be sufficient burst time to harm some amps but careful interpretation of note is required .

Log in if ARRL member :
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/protected/Group/Members/ProductReview/PROD_REV_0816.pdf (http://www.arrl.org/files/file/protected/Group/Members/ProductReview/PROD_REV_0816.pdf)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6BRN on June 28, 2016, 07:45:15 AM
Regarding Field Day ops with the IC7300 - no major problems - I'm not too surprised.  Most multi-op setups use dedicated outboard bandpass filters to limit interference, and I've seen rigs with far worst specs than the 7300 perform just fine on Field Day because of this and due to other good practices.

It seems clear that the IC7300 is a decent radio.  For one, its finals are not exploding on contact with TX as some small wonderrigs have seemed to do in the recent past.  Second, its user interface, after all the bitching is said and done about touch screens, is pretty intuitive, bucking the last 5 year's trend toward puzzle-box menus.  Third, the price is holding steady and people are not returning them in droves.

Regarding fatal flaws - none seen yet, though I'd like to propose the color scheme of the box is rather "BLAH!" and I prefer a larger "S" meter.  Kind of like one contributor criticizing the S-Meter for not being precisely calibrated.  That person has obviously never seen or built a Heathkit. 

But its not the ultimate radio, either, and has many compromises to keep its price down and user interface familiar to analog radio users.   And the compromises are made in the right places so that they are "do not cares" for most operators.

I like Neal's (N6YFM) approach to the radio best - get one and try it out.  Now THATS a time honored Ham tradition if I ever saw one.

Brian - K6BRN
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 28, 2016, 08:18:12 AM
Regarding Field Day ops with the IC7300 - no major problems - I'm not too surprised.  Most multi-op setups use dedicated outboard bandpass filters to limit interference, and I've seen rigs with far worst specs than the 7300 perform just fine on Field Day because of this and due to other good practices.

It seems clear that the IC7300 is a decent radio.  For one, its finals are not exploding on contact with TX as some small wonderrigs have seemed to do in the recent past.  Second, its user interface, after all the bitching is said and done about touch screens, is pretty intuitive, bucking the last 5 year's trend toward puzzle-box menus.  Third, the price is holding steady and people are not returning them in droves.

Regarding fatal flaws - none seen yet, though I'd like to propose the color scheme of the box is rather "BLAH!" and I prefer a larger "S" meter.  Kind of like one contributor criticizing the S-Meter for not being precisely calibrated.  That person has obviously never seen or built a Heathkit. 

But its not the ultimate radio, either, and has many compromises to keep its price down and user interface familiar to analog radio users.   And the compromises are made in the right places so that they are "do not cares" for most operators.

I like Neal's (N6YFM) approach to the radio best - get one and try it out.  Now THATS a time honored Ham tradition if I ever saw one.

Brian - K6BRN

The calibrated S meter thing is really dumb.  I have a dozen old rigs around here and Except for the R4B none of them have a calibrated S meter.  I calibrated the S meter on the Drake 10 years ago so it may not be that close anymore either but it doesn't matter.  I definitely agree with you about a larger S meter.   I really liked the S-meter on my 7600 until I upgraded the firmware, now it has the little bar graph meter when the spectrum scope is enabled.  There are several new rigs that have a couple milliseconds of ALC delay, not sure why that is because Icom has made dozens of radios that don't have that issue, or maybe some did and no one paid attention.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AI8IA on June 29, 2016, 07:05:43 AM
Oh eham...

This may seem silly, but this is why I take the reviews (in particular number ratings) with a pound of salt.

Recent review:

I have been doing extensive ABC tests between 2 top receivers Collins R 390A Rick Mish remanufacturated unit and Ic 7800.

 Need to say that in the 1500 us dlls price range this 7300 takes a 5 star rating but in the top of the line equipment range only a 4 star is enough.


It's a $1500 radio, but the reviewer gave it a 4 anyway. ???

Eh.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on July 02, 2016, 07:29:00 PM
Oh eham...

This may seem silly, but this is why I take the reviews (in particular number ratings) with a pound of salt.

Recent review:

I have been doing extensive ABC tests between 2 top receivers Collins R 390A Rick Mish remanufacturated unit and Ic 7800.

 Need to say that in the 1500 us dlls price range this 7300 takes a 5 star rating but in the top of the line equipment range only a 4 star is enough.


It's a $1500 radio, but the reviewer gave it a 4 anyway. ???

Eh.




"ABC tests" between TWO things..  :D   
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on July 04, 2016, 06:39:15 AM
I did some A/B testing over the weekend and would like to share my observations. Key word is observations, no measurements were done.

First, the actors- radio 1 is 7300 and radio 2 is 756 Pro 3. Note that the 756P3 also has the Inrad roofing filter installed.

Antennas- 4 el 40m yagi at 90', 6 el tribander at 115', full size delta for 80, inv-V @ 90' for 80, and vertical for 160. 20m band noise as observed visually on my QS1R is about -130 dBm.

I started with deliberate efforts to overload the 7300. Was able to get the OVF light to occasionally flicker by going down on 40m and activating pre-amp 2. As expected, the waterfall was mostly yellow with some orange and red. The 7300 sounded very noisy. However, the 756P3 sounded just as bad, but due to the lack of the OVF light there was no visual indication that the 756P3 has been overloaded.

I activated the 40m BPF that is in front of the two rigs. The OVF light never came on and the orange/red was gone from the waterfall. Both radios sounded pretty noisy.

Next I went back to the way I use both radios- no pre-amp and RF gain set at the point where the static crashes do not show up on the S-meter. On both rigs this is between 9 and 10 o'clock. NR on the 7300 is set to 4 and to 9 o'clock on the 756P3. Both rigs are set to 500 Hz filters, with the 7300 also configured for a RX CW bandpass filter (400 - 600 Hz).

At this point there is a huge difference between the 7300 and the 756P3. The 7300 is very quite, no noise, and very pleasant to the ear. Static crashes are visible on the waterfall, but not audible. In comparison, while also relatively quite, the 756P3 sounds noisier and a bit harsher.

Then I tried what happens when I transmit 100W on the 756P3 and listen on the 7300.  The 7300 didn't care as long as I was not listening on the harmonic of the 756P3. The BPFs certainly help. When I add high power BPFs I will repeat this test.

So, from a receiver perspective, I definitely give the 7300 the upper edge.

From a user interface perspective, I feel there is too much screen tapping on the 7300. As a contester, I really pay attention to the interaction with the radio. When using the 756P3 I don't have to ever look at the radio as there are buttons I can use, mainly the filter selection and AGC.

Next, I tried to observe any TX power spikes. I use two tube amps that require about 30W of input for 1500W out, have no ALC circuits, and have extensive protection, including against overdrive and hot switching. I did not observe any "complaints" from the amps, regardless of drive power.

Finally, speaking of drive power, a very interesting observation- I dialed down the power to zero so I can play with N1MM+ logger. As soon as I called CQ on 40m, I was spotted by N2QT, and F, DL, and OZ skimmers at 10 db SNR. I am really puzzled as I didn't think zero is that much power; clearly it is plenty power to conduct a transatlantic QSO!

So there you have it. Remember, just observations, no measurements.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: G4AON on July 04, 2016, 09:37:59 AM
Calibrated S-meters, don't exist. There is no such thing
The Microtelecom Perseus has a superb S-meter, calibrated in both dBm and S-units (6dB/unit, S9 is -73dBm). The dBm readings match my signal generator pretty closely. The meter doesn't change with attenuator settings (as it shouldn't).

So, meters can be accurate, it's a pity the far eastern manufacturers don't seem to care.

73 Dave
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on July 04, 2016, 11:20:11 AM
First, the actors- radio 1 is 7300 and radio 2 is 756 Pro 3. Note that the 756P3 also has the Inrad roofing filter installed.

Thanks for this report, esp. interesting because I have a ProIII that has the Inrad filter.  The IC-7300 sounds better and better.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 04, 2016, 05:10:11 PM
I thought the pro 3 was a very nice to operate radio that did not perform very well at all.
At least in stock form.
Performance wise, its not hard to top at all.

Did love how easy it was to operate, no need to ever open the manual.
I think I would be in the manual for the 7300 often...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on July 04, 2016, 06:32:38 PM
I thought the pro 3 was a very nice to operate radio that did not perform very well at all.
At least in stock form.
Performance wise, its not hard to top at all.

I found that the Inrad filter helped in contest conditions with the ProIII.  Have only used mine on CW, where it has done well in contests and chasing DX, though the filters do ring when you tighten down below about 400 hz.  From what I'm reading, the IC-7300 filters don't have this problem.  The spectrum display on the ProIII isn't useful - it's pretty, but not nearly as helpful as a waterfall. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on July 04, 2016, 07:36:29 PM
There is NO industry standard

Yeah actually there is. The IARU standard is 6dB per S point with S9 set at 50.1uV or -73dBm. You will find most amateur radio S meters are calibrated to S9 at -73dBm. Kenwood, Icom and Yaesu do tend to use 3dB per S point for S1 to S9 due to the fact Muricans seem to think that the higher the needle goes the better the receiver is.
The IARU isn't a governing body, so it isn't really an industry wide standard that "must" be adhered to.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 04, 2016, 08:36:53 PM
I thought the pro 3 was a very nice to operate radio that did not perform very well at all.
At least in stock form.
Performance wise, its not hard to top at all.

Did love how easy it was to operate, no need to ever open the manual.
I think I would be in the manual for the 7300 often...

The PRO III is still a very good radio and can be easily used as a contest rig by someone with experience which has a lot to do with success.  If you ever played golf then you realize that even if you had the most expensive clubs in the world the last place guy on the pro tour would beat you like a step child using a set of K-Mart specials.  There is nothing wrong with the Pro III with a proper roofing filter installed which is not much of a modification. 

As for the menus on the 7300 I can only guess that you probably have a lot of problems with your phone also.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 05, 2016, 01:33:40 PM
I am not a contester and operate mostly phone these days.
TX phone was so/so on ssb and AM did not really work at all.
Out of the passband signals pumped the 15+ KHz wide 1st IF like mad and the audio had a lot of hi gain ic chip hash and hiss.

I liked the spectrum display, the band stacking, the amount of knobs.
I had a pro1, 2 and 3, not much change between the 2 and 3, both were better then the 1.

Ten tec and Elecraft did CW better at less cost but much worse ease of use.
I grew to hate Elecraft multi button multi menu operation, and no, I do not enjoy smart phones.

I thought power sdr was very well done for a software operating system, unlike most things like the super complex gps system in my car.
Its got a manual as thick as a small phone book.

If I can not sit in front of a radio and figure out how to change the spectrum display bandwidth in 30 minutes, I give up.
Its NOT what I call intuitive.
I spent 10 minutes looking for the band button, band stacking registers?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 05, 2016, 03:21:00 PM
I am not a contester and operate mostly phone these days.
TX phone was so/so on ssb and AM did not really work at all.
Out of the passband signals pumped the 15+ KHz wide 1st IF like mad and the audio had a lot of hi gain ic chip hash and hiss.

I liked the spectrum display, the band stacking, the amount of knobs.
I had a pro1, 2 and 3, not much change between the 2 and 3, both were better then the 1.

Ten tec and Elecraft did CW better at less cost but much worse ease of use.
I grew to hate Elecraft multi button multi menu operation, and no, I do not enjoy smart phones.

I thought power sdr was very well done for a software operating system, unlike most things like the super complex gps system in my car.
Its got a manual as thick as a small phone book.

If I can not sit in front of a radio and figure out how to change the spectrum display bandwidth in 30 minutes, I give up.
Its NOT what I call intuitive.
I spent 10 minutes looking for the band button, band stacking registers?


Now I know you're just being contrary to get a reaction.  I owned a Pro 3 and there was absolutely nothing wrong with it, AM worked great and I drove my Henry 2K classic at about 200 watts carrier all day and got great audio reports.  My guess is you didn't know how to set it up correctly, takes a little reading and you have to know something about radio. 

I know you drank the Flex koolaide so I won't press you anymore since you have nothing of value to add to the thread.  Truth is Icom sold way, way more Pro 3's than Flex has sold from their entire product line so the Icom's must have been pretty good.  Even Rob Sherwood like them. 

Now back to spectating as Icom kicks the crap out of Flex in the world amateur radio equipment market.  ;D :P
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 05, 2016, 06:09:29 PM
Funny, most guys I talk to have to use a 9 volt battery into the ALC to get the modulation to work right without hitting the alc and turning the carrier off  on the pro series (and most icom's).
I have a recording of a friend on a 7300 and he sounds great on it, so they fixed that.
I wont insult you, and just say I thought the 7300 was not an easy to figure out radio.
My stations are all home brew at the moment, except for an sdriq as a band scope/spectrum display.
I am a fan of radios I like and that work well for what I want, I have no loyalty to any particular brand.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 05, 2016, 08:46:20 PM
Funny, most guys I talk to have to use a 9 volt battery into the ALC to get the modulation to work right without hitting the alc and turning the carrier off  on the pro series (and most icom's).
I have a recording of a friend on a 7300 and he sounds great on it, so they fixed that.
I wont insult you, and just say I thought the 7300 was not an easy to figure out radio.
My stations are all home brew at the moment, except for an sdriq as a band scope/spectrum display.
I am a fan of radios I like and that work well for what I want, I have no loyalty to any particular brand.


seen them, nice workmanship, been there done it in the 60's and 70's.  As for you reasons, whatever those are, I have to say I am very impressed only not the way you think.   I still home brew once in a while but only solid state stuff these days and I don't bother with AM anymore but I absolutely don't even care about AM on a modern transceiver and to use that as a rationale to say something disparaging about any new rig is really stupid.  Since you have all that iron why do you even care?  Cause I sure as h311 don't.  Go play on 75 and worry about something important like your electric bill.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4KOE on July 06, 2016, 10:09:04 AM
Wow. Emotions seem to be running high here.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 06, 2016, 10:34:36 AM
Wow. Emotions seem to be running high here.

It is all part of the Flexradio culture and experience...  ;)

Having owned a Pro II, Pro III, 7600 and many other Icoms, they were all more pleasant and intuitive to operate than PSDR and a Flexradio...

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 06, 2016, 10:42:01 AM
Wow. Emotions seem to be running high here.

Not really, I just don't suffer idiots very well.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 06, 2016, 10:54:15 AM
I just don't suffer idiots very well.

It is all part of the Flexradio culture and experience...  ;)

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on July 06, 2016, 11:58:48 AM
Back on topic.   I am just fine and happy with my Yaesu FT-DX3000.  But I came into a little extra play money,
and was curious to learn about entry level SDR and how much of a game changer the new ICOM might be.
So I purchased an IC-7300 from another ham on QRZ.com a week ago.
WOW.
Initial reaction for this little "entry level" SDR radio;

+  The user interface was so easy to figure out.  I might have spent a total of 10 minutes with the manual.

+  The quality of the scope, and what you can do with it just mops the floor with Yaesu :-)
     Very impressive, yet very useful.

+  Without even learning to dial-in the audio yet, my first SSB contact asked what kind of
     audio processing rack and high end MIC I was using :-)  :-)   Since then, I have dialed in
     the EQ and COMP even more over the air, and contacts love the sound.

+  For Digital, especially JT-65 and JT-9, the audio passband on transmit is SO MUCH more flat,
    that you do not get the annoying variation in power level, ALC, etc when you move to signals
    from 400 Hz to 1200 Hz to 2700 Hz, it just stays flat where you want it.   This is SO much better
    than my Yaesu.  

My overall impression;    WOW!   Icom nailed it, right out of the ball park.   How can an entry level
radio be SO MUCH MORE FUN to operate than my more expensive Yaesu FT-DX3000 SuperHet?

Answer:   It is the sum of a HUGE number of tiny little user interface details, intelligent compromises
in price/performance, and attention to detail, coupled with the ease and simplicity of fine tuning
features in software, rather than rebuilding dozens and dozens of hard wired prototypes.

The result;  You just have to use one for a few days.   Can't be described.    It's like trying to
describe a Concert, or sky diving, or being in an earthquake over the phone to a friend.
It's one thing to listen to others, it's an entirely different thing to experience it yourself.
Icom payed attention to the experience.   I did not think I could be this Impressed by an
entry level rig.

And as a final note;    A few of us went to HRO and played with one for 30 minutes.
Initially I was not that addicted.   But after getting it and using it for 2 days;  I'm cooked.
You can't pry it away from me :-)

The only small learning curve that takes a few hours to break bad habbits;  It's NOT a superhet, it's
an SDR with an ADC.   So it takes a little different approach to learning to adjust the attenuator, or
RF gain, or preamps, to properly load the ADC chip, rather than with a Superhet radio where you only
care about overall analog gain/signal level.    A tiny small nuance, but it is a little different.
Once I figured that out, I can get the weak signals pulled in, and get the audio noise way down.

Bottom line:   I have had a lot of fun this last week, and stayed up way too late for a
working man :-)

Cheers,

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 06, 2016, 02:44:45 PM
My overall impression;    WOW!   Icom nailed it, right out of the ball park.   How can an entry level
radio be SO MUCH MORE FUN to operate than my more expensive Yaesu FT-DX3000 SuperHet?
Neal

At $1500 I do not consider it to be an entry level radio. The Icom 718 and Yaesu 450 are entry level radios. The 7300 is competing with the Kenwood TS-590SG and your Yaesu 3000 and even the Flexradio 6300 and obsolete Flexradio 5000. From your observations and all the reviews I have read about the Icom 7300, it seems to holding its own against the mid level priced radios. Certainly the Icom 7300 huge sales show that everyday ham Ops are ready for a all in one box SDR with knobs that is not premium priced...... The QST review hit the nail on the head. The 7300 is gonna be a BIG game changer.

Stan K9IUQ

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 06, 2016, 06:22:22 PM
I do not follow your logic.
I think a modern radio should work well on all modes, not just some, or one.
Why you think its really stupid that someone would complain about including a mode on a rig and have it work like crap makes no sense.
Many people do like AM, its easy to build your own stuff and get on the air and its nice to listen to.
The 7300 does AM very well, the older icoms did not.

You seem to take it as a personal insult that I did not find the 7300 easy to use right off the bat and resort to insults and put downs.
Maybe some insecurity there?
Or was it the fact the pro series had alc issues on AM and a wide 70 MHz first IF?

I have not found the perfect rig yet and can always find something that could be better in some respect, nothing unusual about that.
Ten Tec, Elecraft (almost all of them), various Icoms, Kenwoods, many flex radios, the Anan, homebrew, Collins, Gonset, Drake, Heathkit, had them and used them all on most modes, some were great, some not, all could be better in some respect.

Why are so many hams so grumpy?









seen them, nice workmanship, been there done it in the 60's and 70's.  As for you reasons, whatever those are, I have to say I am very impressed only not the way you think.   I still home brew once in a while but only solid state stuff these days and I don't bother with AM anymore but I absolutely don't even care about AM on a modern transceiver and to use that as a rationale to say something disparaging about any new rig is really stupid.  Since you have all that iron why do you even care?  Cause I sure as h311 don't.  Go play on 75 and worry about something important like your electric bill.
[/quote]
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on July 06, 2016, 07:12:38 PM
The only small learning curve that takes a few hours to break bad habbits;  It's NOT a superhet, it's
an SDR with an ADC.   So it takes a little different approach to learning to adjust the attenuator, or
RF gain, or preamps, to properly load the ADC chip, rather than with a Superhet radio where you only
care about overall analog gain/signal level.    A tiny small nuance, but it is a little different.
Once I figured that out, I can get the weak signals pulled in, and get the audio noise way down.

This is soooo not true- you have to manage RF gain and attenuation with superhet radios as well. There is a good reason they are equipped with a RF gain knob and an ATT button; they are just as prone to overloading as SDRs.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on July 06, 2016, 07:25:32 PM

Why are so many hams so grumpy?


Because most of us are old farts that sit in the porch and chase kids off the lawn.  ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on July 06, 2016, 08:00:15 PM
Answer:   It is the sum of a HUGE number of tiny little user interface details, intelligent compromises
in price/performance, and attention to detail, coupled with the ease and simplicity of fine tuning
features in software ...

I haven't seen one first-hand but I've read all of the reviews  and watched most of the IC-7300 Youtube videos, and my impression is that the 'killer feature' is the user interface.   UI is one thing that Icom does especially well.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on July 06, 2016, 08:01:38 PM
The only small learning curve that takes a few hours to break bad habbits;  It's NOT a superhet, it's
an SDR with an ADC.   So it takes a little different approach to learning to adjust the attenuator, or
RF gain, or preamps, to properly load the ADC chip, rather than with a Superhet radio where you only
care about overall analog gain/signal level.    A tiny small nuance, but it is a little different.
Once I figured that out, I can get the weak signals pulled in, and get the audio noise way down.

This is soooo not true- you have to manage RF gain and attenuation with superhet radios as well. There is a good reason they are equipped with a RF gain knob and an ATT button; they are just as prone to overloading as SDRs.

Right, but if you read closely, it's different.   On a Superhet, for example, when you have a weak signal, it's sometimes counter-intuitive what works best;  You turn DOWN the RF gain and turn UP the volume, and suddenly the noise
seems lower relative to the weak signal you want.

Now, in an SDR, if you try that same teaching, without some minor adjustment/learning curve, you will actually unload the ADC and make it worse.  Not better.

They both have attenuator, pre-amps, and RF gain, but in the SDR they interact in a noticeably different way.


Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on July 07, 2016, 02:59:44 AM
The only small learning curve that takes a few hours to break bad habbits;  It's NOT a superhet, it's
an SDR with an ADC.   So it takes a little different approach to learning to adjust the attenuator, or
RF gain, or preamps, to properly load the ADC chip, rather than with a Superhet radio where you only
care about overall analog gain/signal level.    A tiny small nuance, but it is a little different.
Once I figured that out, I can get the weak signals pulled in, and get the audio noise way down.

This is soooo not true- you have to manage RF gain and attenuation with superhet radios as well. There is a good reason they are equipped with a RF gain knob and an ATT button; they are just as prone to overloading as SDRs.

Right, but if you read closely, it's different.   On a Superhet, for example, when you have a weak signal, it's sometimes counter-intuitive what works best;  You turn DOWN the RF gain and turn UP the volume, and suddenly the noise
seems lower relative to the weak signal you want.

Now, in an SDR, if you try that same teaching, without some minor adjustment/learning curve, you will actually unload the ADC and make it worse.  Not better.

They both have attenuator, pre-amps, and RF gain, but in the SDR they interact in a noticeably different way.


Neal

This makes absolutely no sense at all. Regardless of the receiver's architecture you want to use as little gain as needed. Your end goal is to extract as much audio as possible while minimizing the noise, aka SNR. Your next step is to use as little bandwidth as possible to further improve the SNR. By dialing down on a narrower filter selection you improve the SNR (this is why NR is much less effective with narrow filters).

Here's a good step by step guide on how to quiet your receiver:

http://www.ab4oj.com/icom/dbmheaven.html

Have been using it for ages and it does make a huge difference. On the 7300, where you have only one antenna port, the process changes somewhat- you find a clear frequency and dial down the RF gain until it doesn't show up on the S-meter. If the scope were larger, then you want to dial down the RF gain until the band scope's bottom is barely above the band noise. Of course this is not set it and forget it, RF gain needs to be managed at all times and on all bands/modes.

IMHO, SDRs are helping people develop better habits by using their radios better. That flickering OVF light in front of you is a good reminder that maybe you should dial down the RF gain.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AC7CW on July 07, 2016, 06:45:53 AM
With direct sampling I'd think that you want the signal as presented to the input of the A to D converter to drive it right to it's maximum on the peaks. That gives you the maximum accuracy. Each reduction in input by half is the same as reducing the accuracy by one bit. I'm not sure at what point an operator would be able to hear any difference though. If you couldn't hear any difference between 14 bits and 16 bits then a 16 bit A/D brings a lot of latitude with it...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on July 07, 2016, 07:04:23 AM
With direct sampling I'd think that you want the signal as presented to the input of the A to D converter to drive it right to it's maximum on the peaks. That gives you the maximum accuracy. Each reduction in input by half is the same as reducing the accuracy by one bit. I'm not sure at what point an operator would be able to hear any difference though. If you couldn't hear any difference between 14 bits and 16 bits then a 16 bit A/D brings a lot of latitude with it...

"The actual difference in performance between 14 bit and a 16 bit ADC is insignificant, around 1 dB, maybe 2 at most", Rob Sherwood, NC0B

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ic-7300/conversations/messages/7624
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 07, 2016, 08:20:11 AM
I think that partly depends on the clock speed.
 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W6RZ on July 07, 2016, 04:48:56 PM
"The actual difference in performance between 14 bit and a 16 bit ADC is insignificant, around 1 dB, maybe 2 at most", Rob Sherwood, NC0B

The ENOB (Effective Number of Bits) for today's 14 and 16-bit RF ADC's is pretty much the same at around 12.5 bits. ENOB is calculated from SINAD.

ENOB = (SINAD - 1.76) / 6.02

If you look at the data sheets for the LTC2208-14 and the AD9467 (the 16-bit ADC used in the Flex 6000 series), the 5 MHz SINAD for the the LTC2208-14 is 77 dB and the AD9467 is 76.3 dB. So that's 12.5 bits ENOB for the LTC2208-14 and 12.4 bits ENOB for the AD6467.

The extra 2 bits on the AD9467 is essentially just noise. This is also why there are no commercially available 18-bit RF ADC's, the state of the art isn't there yet.

http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/220814fb.pdf

http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD9467.pdf
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 07, 2016, 08:24:46 PM
"The actual difference in performance between 14 bit and a 16 bit ADC is insignificant, around 1 dB, maybe 2 at most", Rob Sherwood, NC0B

The ENOB (Effective Number of Bits) for today's 14 and 16-bit RF ADC's is pretty much the same at around 12.5 bits. ENOB is calculated from SINAD.

ENOB = (SINAD - 1.76) / 6.02

If you look at the data sheets for the LTC2208-14 and the AD9467 (the 16-bit ADC used in the Flex 6000 series), the 5 MHz SINAD for the the LTC2208-14 is 77 dB and the AD9467 is 76.3 dB. So that's 12.5 bits ENOB for the LTC2208-14 and 12.4 bits ENOB for the AD6467.

The extra 2 bits on the AD9467 is essentially just noise. This is also why there are no commercially available 18-bit RF ADC's, the state of the art isn't there yet.

http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/datasheet/220814fb.pdf

http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD9467.pdf


Don't forget the bit energy to noise ratio EB/N0. It has a direct impact on weak signal reproduction.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 08, 2016, 07:49:46 AM
My 14 bit sdr-iq has a LOT of background noise, even with no antenna attached.
The other SDR's did much better, even the 14 bit Anan 10E that has 14 bits but a higher clock speed.
The sdr-iq makes a great band scope and strong signal receiver but is very poor on weak signal work.
The 7300 seems fine, I suspect its the higher clock speed...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 09, 2016, 08:55:39 AM
My 14 bit sdr-iq has a LOT of background noise, even with no antenna attached.
The other SDR's did much better, even the 14 bit Anan 10E that has 14 bits but a higher clock speed.
The sdr-iq makes a great band scope and strong signal receiver but is very poor on weak signal work.
The 7300 seems fine, I suspect its the higher clock speed...

I'm not sure that clock speed would have much of an impact on noise since anything in the window at the time a sample is clocked gets quantized and processed. The maximum sample rate for the 14 bit ADC is 400 MSPS so increasing clock speed won't increase the sample rate.  Also, noise is relatively constant with respect to signal so sample speed won't really impact input and system (error) noise.   I do think how the samples get processed after quantization has a lot of effect on signal to noise ratio in the recovered audio.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 09, 2016, 06:08:52 PM
When I bought the Anan 10E, I was told it was much better then my sdr-iq (both 14 bit units) because of the higher clock speed, and it was explained but I forget exactly why.
And the Anan WAS so much better then the sdr-iq.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on July 10, 2016, 05:57:55 AM

Why are so many hams so grumpy?


Because most of us are old farts that sit in the porch and chase kids off the lawn.  ;D

Nailed it!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4KOE on July 13, 2016, 11:21:19 AM
Chasing kids off the lawn is good sport. The young ones are tender and don't take so long to cook.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 13, 2016, 12:25:43 PM
All the reviews on this radio are very good.
Despite my not loving the control aspects on a short test drive at HRO, its hard to pass this thing up at the price.
Used gear that is not as good costs more, and even some used old junk is the same price!
But I might go for the KX2 as a more portable rig...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 13, 2016, 12:28:58 PM
The QST review just came out and the numbers are sparkling.  The IC-7300 has been a runaway success and there are better radios in development already.  I think by this time next year we may be seeing some very cool stuff coming out of Japan. :)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 14, 2016, 05:29:50 AM
I guess THIS is why the 14 bit Anan was better then the SDR-IQ:

The trick is that your getting more bits of resolution by decimating the ADC output with a DDC in the FPGA. For every 4X of decimation, you gain 1 bit of resolution. If you're decimating by a factor of 4096 (for example 61.44 Msps to 15 ksps), you gain 6 bits of resolution and a 14-bit ADC with FPGA acts like a 20-bit ADC. 20 bits of resolution is 122 dB of dynamic range.



When I bought the Anan 10E, I was told it was much better then my sdr-iq (both 14 bit units) because of the higher clock speed, and it was explained but I forget exactly why.
And the Anan WAS so much better then the sdr-iq.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 14, 2016, 02:34:43 PM
I guess THIS is why the 14 bit Anan was better then the SDR-IQ:

The trick is that your getting more bits of resolution by decimating the ADC output with a DDC in the FPGA. For every 4X of decimation, you gain 1 bit of resolution. If you're decimating by a factor of 4096 (for example 61.44 Msps to 15 ksps), you gain 6 bits of resolution and a 14-bit ADC with FPGA acts like a 20-bit ADC. 20 bits of resolution is 122 dB of dynamic range.



When I bought the Anan 10E, I was told it was much better then my sdr-iq (both 14 bit units) because of the higher clock speed, and it was explained but I forget exactly why.
And the Anan WAS so much better then the sdr-iq.


Learned some new words?  So "decimating"  is that like quantizing samples in a gat array?  Like a Field Programmable Gate Array?  Those are ordinarily used for designing custom logic devices you know.  So I'm not convinced that six bits of resolution can turn a 96 db dynamic range device into a 120 db dynamic range device but if you tell me who you design radios for I'll take your word for it, otherwise I think you may just be parroting something you read ion the interwebs.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 14, 2016, 02:43:53 PM
Read it here, on this forum.
I can say the 10E was worlds better then the sdr-iq, and both are 14 bit radios, sdr-iq clocks at 66 MHz and the 10E at 120 MHz I think.
Did they not improve things on CD's by over sampling?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on July 14, 2016, 06:33:13 PM
Quote
Learned some new words?  So "decimating"  is that like quantizing samples in a gat array?  Like a Field Programmable Gate Array?  Those are ordinarily used for designing custom logic devices you know.  So I'm not convinced that six bits of resolution can turn a 96 db dynamic range device into a 120 db dynamic range device but if you tell me who you design radios for I'll take your word for it, otherwise I think you may just be parroting something you read ion the interwebs.

Hi Guys:

If you wanted the most simple intro to decimation and noise injection, this Atmel tech note may help;
http://www.atmel.com/images/doc8003.pdf (http://www.atmel.com/images/doc8003.pdf)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 14, 2016, 07:30:23 PM
Quote
Learned some new words?  So "decimating"  is that like quantizing samples in a gat array?  Like a Field Programmable Gate Array?  Those are ordinarily used for designing custom logic devices you know.  So I'm not convinced that six bits of resolution can turn a 96 db dynamic range device into a 120 db dynamic range device but if you tell me who you design radios for I'll take your word for it, otherwise I think you may just be parroting something you read ion the interwebs.

Hi Guys:

If you wanted the most simple intro to decimation and noise injection, this Atmel tech note may help;
http://www.atmel.com/images/doc8003.pdf (http://www.atmel.com/images/doc8003.pdf)

Thanks, that's a great test methodology for tweaking the rate vs amplitude algorithm and the Z transforms to determine where the poles and zeros need to be.  It does not appear to be an acceptable methodology for improving signal to noise in practice since the type of noise in the pass band is not reliable.  Table 8 gives some insight into the process.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 15, 2016, 04:58:12 AM
?
It does not reduce band noise, or boost incoming signals, it reduces the internal radio noise.
My 14 bit sdr-iq does not have it, and its got a LOT of background hash making weak signals VERY hard to copy.
Does not matter what you do with preamps or attenuators, the hash is always there.

The Anan was a 14 bit radio with over sampling, and it was very good at weak signal work.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: PJ2BVU on July 15, 2016, 06:53:01 AM
?
.....
The Anan was a 14 bit radio with over sampling, and it was very good at weak signal work.
                                                ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Could you elaborate on that?

Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 15, 2016, 09:06:52 AM
The Anan 10E (14 bit unit) clocked much higher then the sdr-iq.
So when you listen to say 7 MHz and the clock speed is 120 MHz, you get 17 samples.
With the sdr-iq and its 60 MHz clock, you get 8.5 samples.
Get up around 30 MHz and you get even less, and the sdr-iq did not work very well at all up there.

I dismissed the Anan 10E because it is a 14 bit radio, but was told by owners because the clock was a higher speed (and maybe a better quality clock?), its performance was much better then you would expect for a 14 bit radio, and it was, much better.

If you care to dig up the specs for the Anan10E and the sdr-iq, the 10E blows the sdr-iq away and its only really the clock speed that is much different.
Both direct sample into a 14 bit a/d converter.

I was told, the 16 bit Anan 10 is not much better then the 10E.
I suspect maybe a bit more dynamic range allowing stronger signals before overload, but little improvement in the noise figure.

I am no expert in this stuff at all, but I have owned quite a few sdr radios and almost all, even the Peabury V2 was better in performance then the sdr-iq.
The sdr-iq has other advantages though, its small, rugged, trouble free, works with many software platforms, is usb powered, and does 190 KHz of bandwidth.
Its just no good at all for weak signal work.
My location seems to be quiet, at least where I operate, and the homebrew tube superhets outperform the sdr-iq by a good margin in weak signal work.
The 10E outperformed (or was equal to) the homebrew receivers.



?
.....
The Anan was a 14 bit radio with over sampling, and it was very good at weak signal work.
                                                ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Could you elaborate on that?

Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 15, 2016, 10:01:36 AM
So to get back on topic, the ARRL lab report for the Icom IC-7300 is very good, the best fifteen hundred dollar radio ever made.  The thing that impressed me the most is how complete the package is.  A lot of folks wail and moan that it doesn't have this feature and they left out that feature but none of that matters.  It was designed as is for a reason and it works perfectly right out of the box, if it doesn't have the features you need then don't buy it.

No software glitches, no endless fiddling and tweaking, it just works.  You don't have to buy an interface with tuning knob and a display, they are already included. Icom simply nailed it and the next generation is almost certain to be a slam dunk success given the success of the IC-7300.  It is interesting that the ARRL numbers are a little better than Sherwood's but then I think he may have used someone else's test data.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 15, 2016, 10:15:35 AM
Sure beats a flex 6000 series for mobile work!
Built in antenna tuna should make mobile operation a snap!
And unlike many Icom radios, it seems to work well on all modes!

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: PJ2BVU on July 15, 2016, 02:20:46 PM
Hi Brett,
What you say about the ANAN having a higher clock speed than the SDR-IQ is correct but it is not oversampling. The ANAN can receive up to 60MHz and this requires at least a 120MHz sampling clock. The SDR-IQ receives up to 30MHz and requires at least a 60MHz sampling clock. Oversampling is when you sample at a much higher clock rate than required for various reasons which I won't detail here.
The increase in dynamic range is due to decimation which is the decrease of the sampling rate done by the DSP and after the ADC. Each time you decimate by 2 you increase the dynamic range by 3dB. If the final sampling rate is 384KHz you increase the dynamic range by quite a few dB (Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic - Arthur C. Clarke). If the ADCs of the ANAN and the SDR-IQ were the same you would get only 3dB dynamic range difference betweeen the ANAN and the SDR-IQ for the same final bandwidth. The ADCs being different things are more complicated.
If you are interested in learning more about this stuff you can do like I did:
- Download the free Guide to Digital Signal Processing by Steven W. Smith or buy the book. Good introduction to DSP.
- After that you can buy Understanding Digital Signal Processing by Richar G. Lyons. The DSP bible.
- Watch some videos like those from MIT OpenCourseWare by Alan V. Oppenheim. From the 70s and mainly theory (tough and a little above my head) but with a fantastic explanation on how FFT works (first time I understood it) and some nice shirts.

Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 15, 2016, 05:44:39 PM
I have read some of that theory, but its not really my thing so I do not write it to permanent memory.
I am still in the Vacuum tube era mostly.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 16, 2016, 04:36:03 AM

If you are interested in learning more about this stuff you can do like I did:
- Download the free Guide to Digital Signal Processing by Steven W. Smith or buy the book. Good introduction to DSP.
- After that you can buy Understanding Digital Signal Processing by Richar G. Lyons. The DSP bible.
- Watch some videos like those from MIT OpenCourseWare by Alan V. Oppenheim. From the 70s and mainly theory (tough and a little above my head) but with a fantastic explanation on how FFT works (first time I understood it) and some nice shirts.

Jean-Claude PJ2BVU

Nice to see you back on the SDR forum Jean-Claude. Thanks for the information, I am always trying to learn... Even tho it is hard to teach Old Dogs new tricks.  ;) :D :D

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: PJ2BVU on July 16, 2016, 07:52:23 AM
Hi Stan,
I have been following the forum all this time but did not really had to add anything to the posts.
I don't want to hijack the thread but I thought someone might be interested.
I am myself an old dog  :D, 40 years ago I learned a little bit about DSP but never used it so I had only vague remembrances. After playing with Softrocks and reading about the HPSDR I decided to see if I could learn how this stuff works. I imagined it would be really difficult but in the end it is not that bad. Only the math theories behind it are difficult but you don't have to learn that: someone did all the theory for you and if just take it as granted learning is relatively smooth.
Start with the first reference, at first just read while skipping the little math there is, this gives you a very good idea of what it is all about. You can also skip what is related to image processing and data compression.
The Lyons book is more like a cookbook, excellent but a lot to read and better to read it over and over, some stuff took me a long time to click.
Video lectures: when I started I got a shock as I did not see what it had to do with DSP. First it is only theory with a lot of it being how what was known for continuous signals can be "applied" for digital signals. Most of the math is above me and I am not really interested in learning it but if assume that his demonstrations are true - which they are - it is very interesting. Don't expect anything about computers and algorithms, it is only theory. In the 70s DSP was done only by big entities on big mainframes and usually not in real time. Alan is a fantastic teacher, top notch lectures, his speech is fantastic, really neat overhead projections (no Powerpoint  ;D) and don't forget the shirts. For me the top lecture was about the FFT: it is the first time I really understood how it works.
There are other videos: some from Stanford but the guy is really too messy, after watching 1 lecture I gave up. Don't waste your time on that series. There is also a series of videos from some Indian Institute of Technology, the guy is also messy and I did not finish watching them but may be I will go back one of these days. Don't look for lecture 13, the 13th one is 14: I cannot believe that a scientist is so much superstitious.

Sorry for the deviating from the IC-7300, may be we could start a new thread for DSP stuff.
I don't have a 7300 but I think it is a fantastic radio for the money. A HDMI output and a I/Q output would have been the icing on the cake but I suspect Icom will come up with some real good stuff in the future. It will surely hurt Flex and ANAN: most hams just want a radio which works out of the box, has knobs and do not need a PC. Flex and ANAN will have their place and as of today are in another class but I guess the market for these kind of rigs is very limited and will shrink when the big manufacturers come up with more SDRs. And wait until the Chinese enter this market.
I saw many posts regarding the firmware/software for the Flex and ANAN. For the Flex I won't elaborate, for the ANAN (HPSDR) it is true that only a few amateurs are working on it, it is also true that they are not 20 years old but the state of the software is already quite good. Do you really think you are better off with Icom? I doubt there will be much upgrades on the 7300. I would be more concerned for the hardware (and this is also true for modern traditional radios): the use of millipede chips is increasing and makes fixing them a lot more difficult (BGA anyone). One second after being introduced they become obsolete and become unobtainable. To fix one of these radios you have to cannibalize another dead one. I wouldn't be worried about the firmware/software. And while writing this Hallicrafters, Drakes, Collins are still on the air.
Modern radios don't smell as good, LEDs are nothing compared to glowing filaments and I won't mention the blue light from mercury rectifiers. But SDRs is the future, their performance is excellent and they can be made cheaply. If I was a new ham with $1500 to spend for a first radio guess what I would buy? That's the price of a Maestro with accessories.

Jean-Claude PJ2BVU

Jean-Claude
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on July 16, 2016, 04:49:18 PM
Jean-Claude

TU for pointing to the Smith book.  I had not seen it before.  As I read through the beginning of it, it occurred to me the process he uses to describe DSP in simple terms, is very much how Flex came into being.  Flex was started basically as a personal science project by Gerald K5SDR, and the first PowerSDR was written in Visual Basic, as Gerald tried to feel his way along into creating a radio that runs on software.  This was in the late 90's.  Gerald is an engineer trained in the 60's who then moved into being a CEO of various high tech companies and as such he was no DSP guru, but he had the interest to see if he could build a radio that used equations as components instead of a typical superhet analogue signal pathway. 

In his development of his hardware and software he wanted to see if maybe there were a few other enthusiasts that he could perhaps collaborate with, so he made 10 SDR-1000 3 board 1 watt kits and put it out to see if anyone was interested.  In about 2 days he had over 50 orders, so he thought hmmm this might be a business.  Some very high caliber DSP authors who were also hams eventually contacted him and the software moved from VB.  If you consider the SDR-1000 as the first "clean sheet" design Flex has gone through 2 other clean sheet designs in their product development, so they are not afraid to innovate, and understand the power of creative destruction.  I had an early 3 board SDR-1000.

It was this science project of K5SDR that later expanded to HPSDR by some of the Flex collaborators, as Gerald decided to make Flex into a business.  It was the HPSDR crowd that brought "open source hardware" to the project, also very innovative.  I built the original multi board-set that was later redesigned to become Mercury.  I'm sure Mercury had a lot to with the future design of the 6xxx series.  Anan kept Flex's PSDR (which now has been largely rewritten), and Flex adopted the ADC design but moved to building the radio in a FPGA instead of using a general purpose computer to crunch the numbers.   So when you look at the Anan and Flex products they were created in a very different cauldron of experimentation and to some extent cooperation, than something like the 7300.  They were born out of a world wide bunch of hams doing what they do best "home brewing".  I have nothing against the 7300 but I see it as a radio strictly designed to sell as many "units" as possible.  As such it is not particularly revolutionary or innovative but I'm sure will be quite profitable.

73  W9OY     
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 16, 2016, 08:36:39 PM
Jean-Claude

TU for pointing to the Smith book.  I had not seen it before.  As I read through the beginning of it, it occurred to me the process he uses to describe DSP in simple terms, is very much how Flex came into being.  Flex was started basically as a personal science project by Gerald K5SDR, and the first PowerSDR was written in Visual Basic, as Gerald tried to feel his way along into creating a radio that runs on software.  This was in the late 90's.  Gerald is an engineer trained in the 60's who then moved into being a CEO of various high tech companies and as such he was no DSP guru, but he had the interest to see if he could build a radio that used equations as components instead of a typical superhet analogue signal pathway.  

In his development of his hardware and software he wanted to see if maybe there were a few other enthusiasts that he could perhaps collaborate with, so he made 10 SDR-1000 3 board 1 watt kits and put it out to see if anyone was interested.  In about 2 days he had over 50 orders, so he thought hmmm this might be a business.  Some very high caliber DSP authors who were also hams eventually contacted him and the software moved from VB.  If you consider the SDR-1000 as the first "clean sheet" design Flex has gone through 2 other clean sheet designs in their product development, so they are not afraid to innovate, and understand the power of creative destruction.  I had an early 3 board SDR-1000.

It was this science project of K5SDR that later expanded to HPSDR by some of the Flex collaborators, as Gerald decided to make Flex into a business.  It was the HPSDR crowd that brought "open source hardware" to the project, also very innovative.  I built the original multi board-set that was later redesigned to become Mercury.  I'm sure Mercury had a lot to with the future design of the 6xxx series.  Anan kept Flex's PSDR (which now has been largely rewritten), and Flex adopted the ADC design but moved to building the radio in a FPGA instead of using a general purpose computer to crunch the numbers.   So when you look at the Anan and Flex products they were created in a very different cauldron of experimentation and to some extent cooperation, than something like the 7300.  They were born out of a world wide bunch of hams doing what they do best "home brewing".  I have nothing against the 7300 but I see it as a radio strictly designed to sell as many "units" as possible.  As such it is not particularly revolutionary or innovative but I'm sure will be quite profitable.

73  W9OY    

in 1967 or 68 Hewlett Packard began making Fast Fourier Transform spectrum analyzers.  By the 1980's the digital FFT analyzer was a reality and the implementation of State Variable filters using the Laplace (Z) transfom, was cutting edge.  These became the first real Software Defined Radios.

Your friend started this as a hobby venture in the 90's I have no doubt about that but such radios were already being built and used by the government and military since the early 1980's, he did not invent the stuff.  

The advent of more powerful desktop computers is what made SDR more practical from a home hobby standpoint.  Don't forget though that Yaesu. Icom, and Kenwood were already producing radios that used mathematical algorithms to synthesize notch, band pass, and low pass filters as early as 1988.  I realize you have a great affinity for Flex and it's creators but they really did not invent anything that was not already in place for some time, they just brought it to the hobbyist by exploiting advanced (affordable) computer technology.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on July 17, 2016, 07:12:36 AM
I have nothing against the 7300 but I see it as a radio strictly designed to sell as many "units" as possible.  As such it is not particularly revolutionary or innovative but I'm sure will be quite profitable.    

Every business wants to sell as many of its widgets as it can, and Icom has hit the bullseye with the IC-7300.  It may not be quite cutting-edge, but as Theodore Levitt said, "People don't want to buy a quarter-inch drill, they want a quarter-inch hole."  The IC-7300 apparently makes holes that do the job for a lot of people.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 17, 2016, 07:56:53 AM
I have nothing against the 7300 but I see it as a radio strictly designed to sell as many "units" as possible.  As such it is not particularly revolutionary or innovative but I'm sure will be quite profitable.    

Every business wants to sell as many of its widgets as it can, and Icom has hit the bullseye with the IC-7300.  

Yes, and in order to sell as many widgets as possible, a company MUST give customers what they want at a fair price.

The 7300 IS both revolutionary and innovative in that it is giving the vast majority of hams exactly what they want - a SDR with Knobs and buttons at a value price. Instead of targeting the small market of computer/mouse loving nerdy hams wanting a Flexradio or Anan, Icom is going for the big $$$ market - the average everyday normal ham that just wants a great radio (priced reasonably) to talk to his friends.

Instead of trying to force Hams to a Computer/Mouse controlled SDR, Icom gave hams a "Game Changing" SDR.  The 7300 was designed to give a taste of SDR's to the Ham Masses and there is nothing shameful about that. The huge Icom 7300 Sales is well deserved and will give Icom/Yaesu/Kenwood more incentive to design even more powerful SDR's without the dis-advantage of needing a computer..

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 17, 2016, 09:03:48 AM
I have nothing against the 7300 but I see it as a radio strictly designed to sell as many "units" as possible.  As such it is not particularly revolutionary or innovative but I'm sure will be quite profitable.    

Every business wants to sell as many of its widgets as it can, and Icom has hit the bullseye with the IC-7300.  

Yes, and in order to sell as many widgets as possible, a company MUST give customers what they want at a fair price.

The 7300 IS both revolutionary and innovative in that it is giving the vast majority of hams exactly what they want - a SDR with Knobs and buttons at a value price. Instead of targeting the small market of computer/mouse loving nerdy hams wanting a Flexradio or Anan, Icom is going for the big $$$ market - the average everyday normal ham that just wants a great radio (priced reasonably) to talk to his friends.

Instead of trying to force Hams to a Computer/Mouse controlled SDR, Icom gave hams a "Game Changing" SDR.  The 7300 was designed to give a taste of SDR's to the Ham Masses and there is nothing shameful about that. The huge Icom 7300 Sales is well deserved and will give Icom/Yaesu/Kenwood more incentive to design even more powerful SDR's without the dis-advantage of needing a computer..

Stan K9IUQ


Spot on.  It is going to be interesting to see what they come out with next but whatever it is I'm sure it will be another winner.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WD5GWY on July 17, 2016, 09:12:45 AM


Yes, and in order to sell as many widgets as possible, a company MUST give customers what they want at a fair price.

The 7300 IS both revolutionary and innovative in that it is giving the vast majority of hams exactly what they want - a SDR with Knobs and buttons at a value price. Instead of targeting the small market of computer/mouse loving nerdy hams wanting a Flexradio or Anan, Icom is going for the big $$$ market - the average everyday normal ham that just wants a great radio (priced reasonably) to talk to his friends.

Instead of trying to force Hams to a Computer/Mouse controlled SDR, Icom gave hams a "Game Changing" SDR.  The 7300 was designed to give a taste of SDR's to the Ham Masses and there is nothing shameful about that. The huge Icom 7300 Sales is well deserved and will give Icom/Yaesu/Kenwood more incentive to design even more powerful SDR's without the dis-advantage of needing a computer..

Stan K9IUQ


Wait a minute!! Are you saying I'm abnormal Stan???? ;D
After all, I like computers and radios with knobs!!! And I like Flex radios.
In the case of the Flex, it gives me the ability to write software for the radio
using a program language I like, (C#) plus, having the Maestro, gives me knobs
for the Flex too.  It's all about choice and that's a good thing. No one forced me
to buy a Flex or for that matter, any other brand of radio that I have owned or
currently own.
And my boat anchor collection is growing too! Amateur Radio is fun and messing around
with all the options available is fun too. In fact, I may yet end up with a 7300 in my collection!
More so, if ICOM will publish the command codes for the USB interface for the 7300. Then, I can
write my own software to control the radio. One of their engineers told me that they probably will
allow 3rd party developers access before long. Otherwise, he told me I could always reverse engineer
the USB commands using some dedicated software to watch what is being sent to and from the radio
to ICOM's PC software.  Too much work for now though!
james
WD5GWY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on July 17, 2016, 09:21:55 AM


Yes, and in order to sell as many widgets as possible, a company MUST give customers what they want at a fair price.

The 7300 IS both revolutionary and innovative in that it is giving the vast majority of hams exactly what they want - a SDR with Knobs and buttons at a value price. Instead of targeting the small market of computer/mouse loving nerdy hams wanting a Flexradio or Anan, Icom is going for the big $$$ market - the average everyday normal ham that just wants a great radio (priced reasonably) to talk to his friends.

Instead of trying to force Hams to a Computer/Mouse controlled SDR, Icom gave hams a "Game Changing" SDR.  The 7300 was designed to give a taste of SDR's to the Ham Masses and there is nothing shameful about that. The huge Icom 7300 Sales is well deserved and will give Icom/Yaesu/Kenwood more incentive to design even more powerful SDR's without the dis-advantage of needing a computer..

Stan K9IUQ


Wait a minute!! Are you saying I'm abnormal Stan???? ;D
After all, I like computers and radios with knobs!!! And I like Flex radios.
In the case of the Flex, it gives me the ability to write software for the radio
using a program language I like, (C#) plus, having the Maestro, gives me knobs
for the Flex too.  It's all about choice and that's a good thing. No one forced me
to buy a Flex or for that matter, any other brand of radio that I have owned or
currently own.
And my boat anchor collection is growing too! Amateur Radio is fun and messing around
with all the options available is fun too. In fact, I may yet end up with a 7300 in my collection!
More so, if ICOM will publish the command codes for the USB interface for the 7300. Then, I can
write my own software to control the radio. One of their engineers told me that they probably will
allow 3rd party developers access before long. Otherwise, he told me I could always reverse engineer
the USB commands using some dedicated software to watch what is being sent to and from the radio
to ICOM's PC software.  Too much work for now though!
james
WD5GWY


The Icom CAT command set has always been well published. This is how all third party software packages communicate with the radio. Specifically for the 7300, the detailed documentation is at http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-7300_ENG_CD_0.pdf
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 17, 2016, 09:27:08 AM
Wait a minute!! Are you saying I'm abnormal Stan???? ;D
After all, I like computers and radios with knobs!!! And I like Flex radios.

james
WD5GWY


Well James, I would say you are half normal....  ;)

Since I have known you for a while, I would peg you as a Flexradio Liker, NOT a rabid Flexradio Lover.
 :) :) :) :)

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WD5GWY on July 17, 2016, 04:44:56 PM


The Icom CAT command set has always been well published. This is how all third party software packages communicate with the radio. Specifically for the 7300, the detailed documentation is at http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/manual/pdf/IC-7300_ENG_CD_0.pdf

Thanks for the link. I downloaded it and will give it a good going over. I have seen most of those CAT commands for the ICOM radios
in the past. But, the interesting part, the Panadapter scope and Waterfall, data will be fun trying to extract. Now, I will have to get
a 7300 so I can test some code! Whats not clear in the CAT table is how each frequency point in the display is actually sent. Most
SDR's send the data as an array of points that each correspond to a given frequency and signal strength, from the lowest to the highest that is being displayed at any given time. In the case of Flex 6000 SDR's those points are sent as X & Y coordinates along a line from
the lowest frequency to the highest frequency, and updated at a very fast rate.
So, it will be fun finding how the actual panadapter and waterfall data are being sent.
Again, thanks for the link!
james
WD5GWY
 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WD5GWY on July 17, 2016, 04:45:51 PM


Well James, I would say you are half normal....  ;)

Since I have known you for a while, I would peg you as a Flexradio Liker, NOT a rabid Flexradio Lover.
 :) :) :) :)

Stan K9IUQ

I feel much better now Stan!   ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 17, 2016, 06:25:26 PM
Almost all my gear is home brew, receivers, transmitters, antenna's.
No one forced me to buy all the flex radios I have had, and I really liked most of them.
I really LIKE clicking on things with a mouse, I like seeing something and clicking on it and hearing it.
I see no reason not to click a filter size, or drag a filter/passband/notch where I want them.
The 7300 is about like every other Japanese radio, it just works a bit better for the price.

The price is what is selling the 7300.

And I wonder, without Flex starting the sdr thing if we would have the 7300, or the Anan radios.
Was anyone offering a sound card based radio before Flex did?
I would LOVE to have a 6500, the price is more then I want to spend.
I could get a 7300 but besides the price, I have no reason to get one.
I want a BIG screen, lots of ins and outs on the back panel.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on July 17, 2016, 07:56:36 PM
LEDs are nothing compared to glowing filaments and I won't mention the blue light from mercury rectifiers.

Ah yes - I think the thing that hooked me on ham radio was seeing the station of a friend of my father's when I was 10, in 1957.  He ran AM on 20 with a low dipole, and didn't make a contact that night, but when he transmitted, those 866a's lit up and that was it for me.  Got my novice 5 years later when I was 15, and I'm absolutely certain it was that purple glow that did it. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: PJ2BVU on July 17, 2016, 08:00:53 PM
Lee, yes I know all about that. I started to be interested in SDRs when Flex produced the SDR-1000 with the 1W 2N3866 PA only and since that time I have been following anything SDR for amateurs. You also forgot the QSR1 produced by Phil who was also a member of the HPSDR group .
I think the 7300 is revolutionary because it is the first SDR produced by one of the big manufacturers, looks like a non SDR radio (knobs, buttons, no need for PC) and at a really good price. Sure, you cannot compare it to the Flexes, ANANs or HPSDRs, they are totally different radios for different kind of Hams. I am sure Icom sells them like hot cakes and the buyers love them and are relieved of not having to rely on a PC to operate. If Icom did not put a SDR sticker on it you would think it is some kind of 756-PRO with a real spectrum display, better audio ...

Sure, Gerald did not invent SDRs; they have been in use by the military, government and telecommunication companies long before. He was not even the first amateur to homebrew a SDR, what he did was to introduce the concept to hams and show it was possible to do it at non military price (see A Software-Defined Radio for the Masses in 2002-2003).
In 1992 Rick Campbell KK7B published an article in QST titled High-Performance, Single-Signal Direct-Conversion Receivers: it is not a SDR, just a regular phasing receiver. The front end which produces the analog I/Q signal is basically the same as the front end of  the SDR-1000, Flex-1500, Flex-3000 and Flex-5000. The circuit processing the analog I/Q signals is totally analog using all-pass filters. But on page 39 there is a little block diagram with the following legend: The R2 board can serve as a basic building bloc for a receiver of the future. Just add a direct-digital synthesizer for the LO and digital processing for the audio processing.
In 1998 Rob Frohne KL7NA published an article in QST titled A high-Performance, Single-Signal, Direct-Conversion Receiver with DSP Filtering. Rob started the project in 1994 to do what was suggested in the article of KK7B using a Motorola DSP evaluation board but apparently no DDS. The word SDR is not mentioned anywhere in these 2 articles but it is the first amateur SDR I know of. The SDR-1000 is basically an improved R2 SDR using a PC instead of a DSP board and using a PC made a huge difference with spectrum display/panadapter and a multitude of functions not possible with the DSP board.

With that said we have to recognize that Gerald is the father of Amateur SDR.
Now lets wait and see what will be coming in the future. Knobed SDRs with HDMI output and digital I/Q outputs for example (like the Elad FDM-Duo).

Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 18, 2016, 04:54:36 AM
So why did Icom (and the other major companies) wait so long to come out with something sdr?
Are they even slower to develop stuff then Flex is?

Is it going to be 8 years before they have a full size radio with most of the features a Flex has with the addition of supporting a large touch screen?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on July 18, 2016, 10:13:01 AM
Is it going to be 8 years before they have a full size radio with most of the features a Flex has with the addition of supporting a large touch screen?

Only Icom knows, but my guess is that we'll see a 7600 replacement in 2 years.  My theory is that Icom is very encouraged by sales of the IC-7300 and will want to release replacements for 7600/7700/78xx as soon as they can, but they're a big company and while I suspect they have a big engineering staff, they have corporate inertia.  It was about a year between the leaks that the IC-7300 was coming and the actual release.  I get the 2 year guess allowing for first leak, then another year to set up production and start shipping.  Leak Dayton 2017, radio Dayton 2018.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 18, 2016, 12:01:24 PM
So why did Icom (and the other major companies) wait so long to come out with something sdr?
Are they even slower to develop stuff then Flex is?

Is it going to be 8 years before they have a full size radio with most of the features a Flex has with the addition of supporting a large touch screen?

My guess is that they wanted it to work correctly, it does unlike the Flex radios that have all been released as Beta systems that had to wait on software patches to function correctly.

There is nothing you can say that can detract from the runaway success of the IC-7300 and if it takes two years for a successor then so what?  At least it will work.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 18, 2016, 12:58:12 PM
There is nothing you can say that can detract from the runaway success of the IC-7300 and if it takes two years for a successor then so what?  At least it will work.

You bring up an excellent point, one that the Flex Lovers Ignore. Flexradio has yet to release a finished product from the get go. It takes YEARS for their products to become finished. Sometimes they are never finished. If a ham buys a FLexradio product without waiting at least 3 years they will become a Beta tester, complete with all the Frustration that goes with a product being unfinished.

This is not just an opinion from a well known eHamer that dislikes the FLexradio Company. Go to the Official Flexradio Community Forum and read all the discontent with the Maestro which was released unfinished a couple of months ago.

The Flex series 6000 was released 3 years ago and still has not fulfilled FLex's original Promises. The first SmartSDR software was released without a Panafall and many other basic features. Consider what would happen if Icom had released the 7300 without a panafall, usable NB, ANF, NR, no FM or FSK mode etc. Hams would not buy the radio.

Yet Flexers continue to make excuses for their Radios and their Beloved Flexradio Company. Except for some ex Flex hams:

I had a 6700 but there were too many issues with the software for me that were not and are still not addressed.
Greg

Maybe we will have to wait 2 years for a Icom 7600 SDR replacement. At least when it is released it will be a finished usable product that does not cause Frustration.

Stan K9IUQ

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 18, 2016, 06:24:12 PM
I think Icom has to release a finished product because once its made its done except maybe for minor changes.
Any flex radio never needs to be done, they can always add something.
I suppose Flex could have released the Flex 5000 as a (mostly) finished product (whatever that is in the sdr world) say a year ago.
But people would not have been able to enjoy the radios for the 10 years or whatever before that....
The Anan is not finished yet is it?
A finished sdr radio is a real bummer...

You are never going to be able to add pure signal, or diversity reception, or a huge screen, and many other really neat things to the 7300.
Its a fixed product, its 'done', stick a fork in it, its never going to get much better.

Flex might even get pure signal going, and who knows what people will do with the Anan platform.
No one is going to do anything with the 7300 but use it, like a regular radio.

 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on July 18, 2016, 07:37:34 PM
I think Icom has to release a finished product because once its made its done except maybe for minor changes.

They don't make many small releases, but the 2.0 firmware that they released for the 7600 added some nice features. I was impressed that they released an upgrade for a radio that had been out for 5+ years.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 19, 2016, 04:20:10 AM
They don't make many small releases, but the 2.0 firmware that they released for the 7600 added some nice features. I was impressed that they released an upgrade for a radio that had been out for 5+ years.

I was impressed also by the Icom 7600 V2 release. In fact I bought a 7600 shortly after the new firmware release last year. My new 7600 came with the V2 software already installed. The 7600 has been an excellent radio for me, frustration  free. Of course I have owned many Icoms in the past including a Pro II and Pro III, so I knew it would be a finished good performing radio.

I held off for many years buying the 7600 as I thought the price was too high. When I bought mine the price had dropped to under $3K, That price and the new firmware kicked me off the fence. I have not been disappointed.

I will probably get a 7300 as soon as the price drops some. I got stung buying a Icom 7100 at $1500 as an early adopter, and the price of the 7100 dropped to $1k after a couple of years. No more early adopting for me.

Stan K9IUQ

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on July 19, 2016, 08:52:55 AM
I was impressed also by the Icom 7600 V2 release. In fact I bought a 7600 shortly after the new firmware release last year.

When I googled the upgrade to make sure I had my facts right I saw a lot of comments like this, with folks who were on the fence deciding to go for the 7600 because of the upgrade.  It seemed to have come as a pleasant surprise - I don't have the impression that folks were expecting it.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 19, 2016, 12:02:29 PM
I guess it was not finished.
Just what got done in the upgrade?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 19, 2016, 01:01:32 PM
I guess it was not finished.
Just what got done in the upgrade?

The Icom 7600 was finished in  2009/2010 when it was first released. Every Feature in the radio worked without issue. ALL features in normal knobbed radios was there and working properly. Icom gave no Promises for future features like a"certain" SDR Company.

The Icom 7600 V2 Firmware upgrade last year ADDED a waterfall and other features to the spectrum screen and allowed the use of point and click waterfall tune with a USB mouse plugged in to the USB port of the radio. Also a level control was added for the very useful APF knob. There also were other small upgrades.

Compare this to FLexradio who has released radios without usable basic features like FM or FSK mode, NB, NR, ANF Notch filter etc.

Note that the Flexradio 6000 series SmartSDR software was released without a Waterfall and many basic features. Flexradio Promised a waterfall which took a long time to produce. Many 6000 features are still being promised. OTOH Icom never promised anything, the V2 firmware upgrade was just a Free unexpected bonus.....

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W8KFJ on July 20, 2016, 08:37:23 AM
Why make a choice between a direct-sampling SDR with knobs and buttons, and one whose software offers the many additional features and benefits afforded by the attached computer.  While the 7300 is certainly a great radio at a great price, it lacks the many benefits that SDR software in a separate computer can offer.

My preference is the Elad FDM-DUO.  It's diminutive size belies it's capabilities.  It's a direct-sampling SDR with knobs and buttons, that can be used stand-alone or with included SDR software - for $1150.  As a QRP radio drawing only 500 ma, it makes a great battery portable.  Add a 100 watt amp and an antenna tuner, and you almost have a 7300.  Add a $40 Android tablet or phone, and with HB9EIK's software, you get a nice spectrum-waterfall display, more controls, and a Bluetooth link to the radio.  We have now surpassed the 7300!  Run the included SW2 software, and add EIGHT more receivers, and as many as TWELVE spectrum-waterfall displays.  You can even use alternative SDR software like HDSDR or Studio One if you choose.  Want to learn more - play with GNU radio!  Stream a spectrum over the internet!  There is WAAAAY more!

Dave  W8KFJ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: PJ2BVU on July 20, 2016, 09:22:24 AM
Why make a choice between a direct-sampling SDR with knobs and buttons, and one whose software offers the many additional features and benefits afforded by the attached computer.  ..........

Dave  W8KFJ
Because most hams want just a radio which do not need a computer to work. For them having a computer for logging is enough. To run a SDR with a logging program you also need 2 screens (or more), you have to be careful which program has the focus when you type so your keystrokes do not go to the SDR program when you want to log a QSO ...
The Elad is very well designed but expensive for a 5W rig with a very basic display.
Running 8 receivers and 12 spectrum displays is way more but who really needs it? Only a few if you exclude those who use them just to show off.

Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4KOE on July 20, 2016, 10:16:27 AM
That's why the 6300 only does 2 slices. The middle and upper level models are geared for contest folks and those who want bragging rights. A waste of money for the mainstream ham IMHO.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on July 20, 2016, 01:44:12 PM
I guess it was not finished.



Too Funny

73  W9OY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on July 20, 2016, 03:43:59 PM
Is it going to be 8 years before they have a full size radio with most of the features a Flex has with the addition of supporting a large touch screen?

Only Icom knows, but my guess is that we'll see a 7600 replacement in 2 years.  My theory is that Icom is very encouraged by sales of the IC-7300 and will want to release replacements for 7600/7700/78xx as soon as they can, but they're a big company and while I suspect they have a big engineering staff, they have corporate inertia.  It was about a year between the leaks that the IC-7300 was coming and the actual release.  I get the 2 year guess allowing for first leak, then another year to set up production and start shipping.  Leak Dayton 2017, radio Dayton 2018.
I talked at length on this topic with the "ICOM reps" at Dayton this year. I was helping demo the 7300 and the 7600. We even discussed a possible model number for this, "7600 replacement", the "IC-7651" was tossed around. We also discussed a three tier SDR product line in the near future. 7300= Entry level SDR,  7651= Mid-level SDR, 7751= "Elite class SDR"
2years to the 7651, 2 more years to the 78xx.
Products that are likely to be discontinued during those years would be the 7600, 718, 7700, and 7851.
SDR's are very profitable, due to the huge reduction in parts counts on the pcb. The cost in any SDR is in the software. Custom made, fine tuned and optimized for and SDR.

Yes, I do own a 7300 now, I waited till a software issue was resolve in production. I also own a 7600, have had since they came out. I am comparing the two right now.
I can tell you this, so far it's very close on RX performance. The 7300 scope is very good, even at high sweep speeds it works nicely. I wish it were abit bigger.  Perhaps I'll have get a 7651 to fill that wish...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 20, 2016, 07:28:31 PM
I don't care about a computer or not, or 27 slices, I only need one slice, but want a big screen and the easy control and fine detail it gives.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Ham-radio/i-cbWWbLN/0/L/sdr-console-L.jpg)

I also want lots of ins and outs, line in and out audio, multi antenna ports, built in antenna tuna.
I do not need any knobs on the radio, better if it has none and the box can go behind the desk or whatever.
The 7300 is a great buy if you are looking for a normal radio, make a good mobile rig I suppose, but its not much of an sdr...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on July 20, 2016, 08:27:27 PM
The 7300 seems to be a great buy for those who actually plan to buy one based on actual capabilities as have been copiously published on multiple venues and is obviously of a superior nature compared to other radios at the same price point of $1499 or so.

Flex 3000 was about the same price. It, like the 7300, has an internal antenna tuner, only one antenna port, but does have a line level input. That's really the only difference other than the display software presentation and lack of knobs.

How many hams actually use a line level 600 ohm audio input? A very few, relatively speaking.
How many hams buy a "knobbed" SDR, while still pining for a waterfall on the PC? Possibly a good percentage. BUT... why?
Who can't afford a $50 HF/6m diplexer? (answer this with an example, and I'll turn that around to someone who really shouldn't be in this hobby in the first place..)

 

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: WW5F on July 21, 2016, 07:02:09 AM
I like my 7300.  My advice to those of you who don't like the 7300:  don't buy one.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 21, 2016, 11:16:28 AM
I don't care about a computer or not, or 27 slices, I only need one slice, but want a big screen and the easy control and fine detail it gives.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Ham-radio/i-cbWWbLN/0/L/sdr-console-L.jpg)

I also want lots of ins and outs, line in and out audio, multi antenna ports, built in antenna tuna.
I do not need any knobs on the radio, better if it has none and the box can go behind the desk or whatever.
The 7300 is a great buy if you are looking for a normal radio, make a good mobile rig I suppose, but its not much of an sdr...

That doesn't look any better than my 7600's display in fact, it's not as sharp.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 21, 2016, 11:40:37 AM
That doesn't look any better than my 7600's display in fact, it's not as sharp.

I was thinking the same thing. Wonder what software generated the panafall?
I use a QS1R with my 7600. I usually use HDSDR software, sometimes SDRMAXV software. Both have a much better screen then the above picture and I use a 32" monitor as seen on the top shelf of my K9IUQ QRZ.com lookup.

With my setup I have a great knobbed radio AND a superior panafall on a 32' HD monitor for click and tune....

27 slices, I only need one slice, but want a big screen and the easy control and fine detail it gives.

I also want lots of ins and outs, line in and out audio, multi antenna ports, built in antenna tuna.

You just described my hybrid setup of the Icom 7600 and QS1R.. Only I WANT knobs instead of worrying and fiddling with "Windows Focus".

Anything more than 2 RX's (slices) is a waste and not needed. With my setup I can have 2 OR 3 RX's.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 21, 2016, 01:13:01 PM
24 inch monitor, the fuzziness is in the camera.

That is an sdr-iq running sdr-radio v1.5.
But when I had the flex 5000, I did not need or want knobs.
Audio processing went into the BALLANCED line in, BALLANCED line out went to the Marantz audio amp and big speaker, the three antenna ports went to various antenna's or big tube transmitters, RX antenna port to the big TR relay.
It was handy to record (one button) and play back (another click) of someones signal if they wanted to hear what they sounded like at my QTH, plus other neat sdr type things.

How much money into a qs1r, a 7600, the display?
Over $4000.00 I think.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 21, 2016, 02:01:12 PM
That is an sdr-iq running sdr-radio v1.5.
But when I had the flex 5000, I did not need or want knobs.

How much money into a qs1r, a 7600, the display?
Over $4000.00 I think.

I thought the software looked familar, I have used SDR-Radio with a USB SDR dongle on my backup computer for grins.

The cost of my hybrid station was about the same cost of what I paid for my Flexradio 5000 with ATU and 2nd RX, firewire card/special FW cable, and bags of ferrites.  ;) :D

However my present hybrid knobbed/sdr setup is a much more competitive radio with better usable features and because it does not have a Flexradio nameplate, my station is Frustration Free with NO unfulfilled Promises.   :D :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6JH on July 21, 2016, 02:07:58 PM
That is an sdr-iq running sdr-radio v1.5.
But when I had the flex 5000, I did not need or want knobs.

How much money into a qs1r, a 7600, the display?
Over $4000.00 I think.

I thought the software looked familar, I have used SDR-Radio with a USB SDR dongle on my backup computer for grins.

The cost of my hybrid station was about the same cost of what I paid for my Flexradio 5000 with ATU and 2nd RX, firewire card/special FW cable, and bags of ferrites.  ;) :D

However my present hybrid knobbed/sdr setup is a much more competitive radio with better usable features and because it does not have a Flexradio nameplate, my station is Frustration Free with NO unfulfilled Promises.   :D :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ

Yeah, but I can't go buy a new QSR1 right now. Phil doesn't have any of the old ones in stock, and the new version is still vaporware. ;-)

(Not meant to be a dig at Phil. I hope he recovers from whatever's ailing him, and he can go back to his old lifestyle. This the nature of being a one man shop.)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 21, 2016, 02:26:03 PM
Yeah, but I can't go buy a new QSR1 right now. Phil doesn't have any of the old ones in stock, and the new version is still vaporware. ;-)

True. The QS1R is an extremely capable SDR which was years ahead of the competition. Hams that own one rarely sell. They are too useful. I have owned my QS1R for many years, I got it soon after I bought a TS-590s to replace my Flex 5K.

HOWEVER you can do a SDR/Knobbed Hybrid station like mine with ANY SDR RX and any knobbed radio.

Stan K9IUQ   
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on July 21, 2016, 03:09:00 PM
The 7300 seems to be a great buy for those who actually plan to buy one based on actual capabilities as have been copiously published on multiple venues and is obviously of a superior nature compared to other radios at the same price point of $1499 or so.

Flex 3000 was about the same price. It, like the 7300, has an internal antenna tuner, only one antenna port, but does have a line level input. That's really the only difference other than the display software presentation and lack of knobs.

How many hams actually use a line level 600 ohm audio input? A very few, relatively speaking.
How many hams buy a "knobbed" SDR, while still pining for a waterfall on the PC? Possibly a good percentage. BUT... why?
Who can't afford a $50 HF/6m diplexer? (answer this with an example, and I'll turn that around to someone who really shouldn't be in this hobby in the first place..)

Has anyone here used a HF/6m diplexer or other arrangement to create a spectrum scope/waterfall on a PC display for an Icom 7300?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 21, 2016, 03:47:13 PM
Has anyone here used a HF/6m diplexer or other arrangement to create a spectrum scope/waterfall on a PC display for an Icom 7300?

The hybrid setup I had can be used with any radio. I have used the QS1R with a TS-590s, Icom 7100, and presently with a 7600. It would be no problem to do it with a 7300. There is no modifications needed to the radio.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on July 21, 2016, 03:54:26 PM
Has anyone here used a HF/6m diplexer or other arrangement to create a spectrum scope/waterfall on a PC display for an Icom 7300?

The hybrid setup I had can be used with any radio. I have used the QS1R with a TS-590s, Icom 7100, and presently with a 7600. It would be no problem to do it with a 7300. There is no modifications needed to the radio.

Stan K9IUQ

What software/SDR device and cabling configuration did you use?  Did it enable you to have bi-directional control from the radio controls and from the point and click display interface?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 21, 2016, 04:11:35 PM
What software/SDR device and cabling configuration did you use?  Did it enable you to have bi-directional control from the radio controls and from the point and click display interface?

I have described my setup countless times on this SDR forum. I use a QS1R, Icom 7600 and a DXE RT1A box for the antenna switching and QS1R front end protection. Yes it is bi-directional, tune from the HDSDR software, IOW click and tune on the panafall OR tune with the Knobbed radios VFO knob. They follow each other perfectly. Many other hams are doing this, some knobbed radios like a TS-590SG will not require a DXE RTR-1A box...

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 21, 2016, 05:40:47 PM
Was not the QS1R sort of based on the same design as the Anan rigs?
I had one, was not over fond of the software, nice hardware though.
Sold it because it was USB based (delay).
I hope Phil gets better, but would not expect a new QS1R soon...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6JH on July 21, 2016, 07:24:32 PM
Well, I suppose I can grab an SDR Play from HRO for $150. But it seems to me that's a little too low end for the EE in me to be happy!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: PJ2BVU on July 21, 2016, 08:01:44 PM
Was not the QS1R sort of based on the same design as the Anan rigs?
.....
The QSR1 came out after Phil left the HPSDR group. The Hermes board from tHPSDR came after that and is used in the ANAN10/100. Very similar for the receive part. Main differences: Preamp before ADC and Ethernet on Hermes, no preamp and USB on QSR1.

Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 22, 2016, 03:32:20 AM
Was not the QS1R sort of based on the same design as the Anan rigs?
I had one, was not over fond of the software, nice hardware though.
Sold it because it was USB based (delay).

Since you had a QS1R please explain how the USB delay affected your operating??
In my use of the QS1R as a panafall for a knobbed radio I have never noticed a delay as I do not use the audio from the QS1R. Ditto for using the QS1R as a CW Skimmer Server. The only time I will notice a delay if I have both the 7600 and QS1R on the same frequency with the audio on both radios. You can then hear the millesec delay from the QS1R. However I have never operated this way. I use the audio from the 7600 and use the Qs1R as a panafall. No delay will be noticed in this use....

FWIW I do not particularly like the SDRMAXV software which was developed for the QS1R. Instead I use primarily HDSDR (free) software which meets my needs and then some.

So how did you use the QS1R where the USB delay apparently bothered you???

Phil Covington designer of the QS1R, was instrumental in the development of HPSDR which much later led to the Anan radios. When the QS1R was first released it was years ahead of the competition and even today it's performance will hold its own against late model radios.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 22, 2016, 05:15:22 AM
I know about Phil's history.
I used the QS1R as a receiver, and sold it partly because it had about the same latency as all the other usb radios and partly because of the software was not to my taste.
It was good just different I suppose.
A lot of money tied up in a receiver with more delay then the flex 5000.

If I was to operate CW with a different transmitter, the delay would be an issue, and if I wanted to listen to my own signal the delay made that impossible.
The ONLY radio that I could get the delay low enough to listen to myself with was the flex 5000 using firewire.
The Anan worked fine on CW, but audio delay through the radio was high on voice modes.
That is only an issue for me, except maybe on CW break in, the QS1R and other high latency radios are fine.

The sdr receivers are generally so good they are useful as signal monitors except for the delay.
In that respect, the 7300 is a winner.

So, for me, the QS1R was not worth the money tied up in it, good as it is/was.
 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 22, 2016, 07:05:35 AM

If I was to operate CW with a different transmitter, the delay would be an issue, and if I wanted to listen to my own signal the delay made that impossible.

The ONLY radio that I could get the delay low enough to listen to myself with was the flex 5000 using firewire.


Listening to your xmitter on a different RX is dangerous to the health of your different RX.  ;)

I have to wonder if you actually have done CW as it was impossible to send decent CW on a Flex 5K using the internal keyer and sidetone because of latency. To work CW on the Flex 5K one had to use an external keyer with sidetone. In addition the Flex 5K would stutter from time to time when sending CW even with an external keyer.

Please do not give the standard Flex 5K CW spin crap about my DPC's or slow computer. At the time of my 5K ownership I had a state of the art (FaSSSST) full blown i7 PC, Flex approved FW card and the PC had extremely low DPCs...

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 22, 2016, 11:01:51 AM
Well, I am not a break in kind of guy, too slow for that, so the flex 5000 was fine.
As far as voice goes, I had a computer built by Neil, a mid range one, and I was able to monitor myself using it.
My rx audio goes to a mod monitor with a relay, then to headphones.
So I hear the receive audio on RX and my TX audio on TX.
I want the sdr to integrate like the rest of the equipment.
The 5000 did, nothing else so far has.
The latency through the Anan was 0? on cw, but not in voice.
The 7300 would be good but it has nothing I want, big display, balanced line in and outs, 3 antenna ports, etc.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 22, 2016, 11:38:21 AM
Well, I am not a break in kind of guy, too slow for that, so the flex 5000 was fine.

Maybe you used the CWX mode, AKA Keyboard CW? Poor Flex 5K CW performance has been beat to death here eHam: http://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php/topic,73279.75.html

Only CWX users and hardcore Flex Lovers (like W9OY) liked Flex 5K CW sending....
Some (Hi Jerry W6UV) including K9IUQ sold their radios because of poor CW sending

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NI8R on July 23, 2016, 04:41:22 AM
this post has run it course and may be the biggest most viewed thread of all time. Someone please close it. Nothing to learn here.



Greg ni8r
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 23, 2016, 05:09:06 AM
this post has run it course and may be the biggest most viewed thread of all time. Someone please close it. Nothing to learn here.
Greg ni8r

No need to close it, if there is nothing to learn, there would not be such a high view count. Let us go for the record of most viewed in the SDR forum. Right now it is ranked at #3. ICOM IC-7300  (Read 123237 times)

Topic #1. DVB-T Stick as SDR  (Read 205148 times)

A topic I started which has been closed for 4 years is, #2 Flex 5000a - Can Not Take it Anymore (Read 146585 times).

You can find the view counts by going to the SDR forum page and click on "Views". Click twice for the sort from most to less.  It will sort according to view counts...

This 7300 topic however has the most replies at 399. Sort the replies column the same way.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 23, 2016, 09:32:49 AM
I notice that the British Ham mag RadCom has just done a review on the 7300. Are there any subscribers that can tell us how the Icom 7300 fared? I have always thought that the Radcom reviews are less biased and more informative than QST reviews  (fear of offending QST Advertisers I suspect) ...

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 23, 2016, 09:48:15 AM
Besides this thread, the 7300 has a LOT of reviews (119) in a short time..
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on July 23, 2016, 10:11:56 AM
I think this is a good thread.  It covers many varied and historic perspectives about ham radio sdr development over the past 12 years and arms the new comer with some context by which to judge manufacturer claims.  Ic om touts the 7300 as an industry first rf direct sampling system but we see hpsdr is the actual industry first rf direct sampling system and was introduced 8 years ago.  Flex is a rf direct sampling system introduced 4 years ago.  The new comer has no way to judge the truth and threads like this make it harder for manufacturers to lie.

73. W9OY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on July 23, 2016, 12:21:41 PM
I am a current 7300 owner. I also have a 7600. I am a member of the yahoo 7300 group (it's the one with the most members).
I have posted six "Mini-Reports" on the group. They have all been well received.
I'll share my latest report. For anymore of them, you will have to sign up as a member of the yahoo group.

The IC-7300, on CW.
Let me say this up front, I am a casual CW operator. I do not contest, I do not dx. I ragchew. It is a rare thing to find on CW, a ragchewer, now days.
I run 20-25wpm most of the time, 28 in a burst. I run only QRP on CW, I usually run below 10 watts out. I have an excellent antenna system, at good altitude so they perform well, I can run QRP very effectively.
I just don't spend as much time on CW as I used to. Not enough ragchewers to keep me interested. Maybe the 7300 will change that.

 "First impressions."
I tuned to 40M CW, it was the only band with activity, and a low enough noise level to make a first run at it, without struggling much.
I changed AGC timing a couple times, adjusted the CW filter settings. I found I prefer the "soft" filter setting. I set up my filters as follows: wide = 1000hz, mid = 300hz, and narrow = 100hz.
I noticed no "cellophane crinkeling" in the narrow bandwidth. This has been an issue in the 7600 and others for me. Your results may vary.
After listening for awhile, I found a clear spot in the band down near the lower end.  I used the scope to find the hole.
The scope works very nicely for spotting openings as well as signals. The "audio scope" shows individual CW characters in the sweep, if you play with the speed abit. The waterfall also shows each pulse, if you can't hear the signal, you can see it in the scope.
Soon, I decided to put the transmitter on the air. I dialed the RF power out down to 0%. My outboard power meter stopped reading it below 1 watt, and showed only sporadic 0.6 watt readings. I tried a small "CB" meter, but I can't vouch for the accuracy, it read about 1 watt out.
I called CQ a couple times, and had a station in Oklahoma respond. RST was 579, not bad. He was running 30 watts more than me so I sent 599.
I used a well reduced RF gain level, to tame the storm noise on the band.  Copy was very good on most signals I heard. Not hard to hear them at all.

The 7300 has impressed me with its clear audio and lack of DSP artifacts in the recovered audio when used with very narrow filter bandwidths.
Once the station is tuned in, the filter can be narrowed. Then it becomes a one-on-one contact. Amazingly, I heard no other signals that broke thru the filter walls. It was just the station I was in contact with, and me.
The "Auto-tune" feature works, if you get close to the desired signal, within a few hundred Hz, hit the button, and the 7300 tunes itself to perfect center, based on the CW pitch you have selected in the CW pitch menu. It tends to tune best from low to high tone. It wanders if you are too low, or high.
Signal strength effects the Auto-tune accuracy. A weak signal can cause the feature to mis-tune or take longer to lock-on.

Proper AGC selection is a must, as well. There are three user adjustable levels, so finding one that suits you should be a matter of playing around with them. I would like to see more increments added in future software updates.
Selection of filters BW and soft/sharp shape factor is a matter of personal preference. Your requirements and results may vary.

I found that the CW filters are very steep. Brick-walls? Maybe, I need more time and better conditions to determine how well they perform under "pile-up" conditions. I have not been able to find any pile ups. Where did all the contests go? Poor propagation currently has created this issue. All I have been able to do, is tune near strong signals and listen for filter penetrations. As of now, I have not heard any such penetrations. If I hear a signal is is within the pass-band, if I don't hear one, it falls outside that pass-band. I have not found a signal strong enough to cause issues with that yet.

I can't express it strongly enough, how important it is for the operator of the 7300, to manage the receiver gain. In this case, less is truly more. The only bands I ever use a pre-amp on is 17-6m. I use no pre-amp and no attenuation on 20m, using only the RFG to control signal levels. On 40m, I use reduced RFG, some times ATT. On 80m, I use ATT full time, with reduced RFG. The user need not worry about "missing a rare one" with this method, you won't.

Overall, it is my opinion based on my casual operations that CW performance of the 7300 is excellent. It has become my favorite rig to use on CW due to the filters and clarity of recovered audio. Tremendous capabilities for a mid range price, that nearly equals rigs that cost two or three times more.

Changes I personally would like to see in a future software update: Add more increments to AGC timing, TX delay, CW "rise time", etc. Doubling all increments would be great. Extending of upper a lower limits on settings, would be very cool.

An interesting side note: (interesting to the frugal QRP operator), with the 7300 set to 50% power output, the DC input current draw was about 12A. With the radio set to 10% the DC input was about 5A. When I ran the output down to 0% (or about 1w out), the DC input remained at 5A.  Based on this, there is no savings for the battery user in the field by lowering output power to 0. You can run 10% and you have reached the best input vs. output economy balance.


I hope you enjoy the report sample. I plan several more in the near future, distributed only on the yahoo group.

73 de Matt KK5DR

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on July 23, 2016, 01:45:42 PM
I hope you enjoy the report sample. I plan several more in the near future, distributed only on the yahoo group.

Very interesting - thanks for sharing that.  How does the NR and NB compare to the 7600?  I'm thinking of a 7300 for my in-town QTH that has a ton of noise from street lights, etc. where I'm currently using a ProIII.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on July 23, 2016, 02:42:37 PM
I hope you enjoy the report sample. I plan several more in the near future, distributed only on the yahoo group.

Very interesting - thanks for sharing that.  How does the NR and NB compare to the 7600?  I'm thinking of a 7300 for my in-town QTH that has a ton of noise from street lights, etc. where I'm currently using a ProIII.

Testing of the NB, NR, & Notch systems are the subjects of the next group posting. You will have to join to find out.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on July 24, 2016, 03:40:29 PM
I am a current 7300 owner. I also have a 7600. I am a member of the yahoo 7300 group (it's the one with the most members).
I have posted six "Mini-Reports" on the group. They have all been well received.
I'll share my latest report. For anymore of them, you will have to sign up as a member of the yahoo group.


Thanks for the very good report.  I signed up for the Yahoo 7300 group (the one that has about 1900 members) but I didn't find your reports.  It's probably user error (I don't find Yahoo's forum software to be the most modern feature rich and user friendly so maybe it's just my lack of Yahoo search and navigation skills).  Any chance you can post one or more of the Yahoo links to your reports?  Thanks.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on July 24, 2016, 04:06:20 PM
I signed up for the Yahoo 7300 group (the one that has about 1900 members) but I didn't find your reports.  It's probably user error (I don't find Yahoo's forum software to be the most modern feature rich and user friendly so maybe it's just my lack of Yahoo search and navigation skills). 

You are in the right Yahoo group. Do a search in the group for his call letters and you will find what you are looking for. The Search Conversations bar is at the top..

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on July 24, 2016, 05:41:51 PM
I signed up for the Yahoo 7300 group (the one that has about 1900 members) but I didn't find your reports.  It's probably user error (I don't find Yahoo's forum software to be the most modern feature rich and user friendly so maybe it's just my lack of Yahoo search and navigation skills). 

You are in the right Yahoo group. Do a search in the group for his call letters and you will find what you are looking for. The Search Conversations bar is at the top..

Stan K9IUQ

Thanks - that works.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on July 24, 2016, 05:52:07 PM
Kind of nice to see this:
"A long time ago, ICOM decided the S-9 = 50uV @ 14mhz was the standard they would hold. Hold it, they did..."
At least it's a defined and consistent reference point (linearly preceded and followed or not).

On a different/larger subject, what's the thinking on how long it will be before:
a: Icom decides the uptake is so good on the 7300 that they ship a 7300 II with a few notable improvements?
b. Icom ships a big brother to the 7300 with some very significant improvements?
c. Kenwood ships something similar/better in response to the 7300?
d. Yaesu ships with something similar/better in response to the 7300?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on July 24, 2016, 06:24:30 PM
Hi. I have a 7300 (and a lot of other Icoms), and really enjoy it.
I think scenario #2 you listed, is already in the works. On the 7300 Yahoo group this has been discussed several times.
The existing 7300 can be improved in software, but most 'complaints' about the radio center around the single antenna connector, etc. So scenario #1 may not be in the cards.

I was bored the other day and I got to thinking about Icom's model numbering....
There is:
7000
7100
7200
7300
7410

7600
7700
7800

What about a 7500 or 7900? 7351?

Pretty trivial, but to this old fart, kinda fun to think about. I bought my 756PRO in Tokyo the week it was announced, then came the PROII and PROIII. The only complaint I've ever had with my PRO is the lousy NB. Even my older Icoms are much better there.

ron
N4UE
 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on July 24, 2016, 07:36:21 PM
Kind of nice to see this:
"A long time ago, ICOM decided the S-9 = 50uV @ 14mhz was the standard they would hold. Hold it, they did..."
At least it's a defined and consistent reference point (linearly preceded and followed or not).

On a different/larger subject, what's the thinking on how long it will be before:
a: Icom decides the uptake is so good on the 7300 that they ship a 7300 II with a few notable improvements?
b. Icom ships a big brother to the 7300 with some very significant improvements?
c. Kenwood ships something similar/better in response to the 7300?
d. Yaesu ships with something similar/better in response to the 7300?
There are a few of us out here that have a close relationship with ICOM, but, we do not work for them.
I discussed this with the others, the current thinking is 2 yrs to an SDR replacement for the 7600, 2 more years for a replacement SDR for the 7700, 7851.
The 7410 has already been discontinued as a direct result of the 7300 soaking up all its sales. The 7600 hardware is maxed out, no more software can be loaded into it. Crystal filters are getting more and more expensive, so the time has come to begin phasing out all non-SDR models from the product line.
Hope that answers your question.
Give it about a year for a software update on the 7300.

Discussions I've had with ICOM reps, are model numbers of the future. 7651, 7900, 7865, were all tossed around. All were projected as SDR, in their own price class.
7300= entry level price class $1500, 7651= mid range SDR, $3000, 7865/7900= elite class, $6k.
Please don't hold me to all this info, it's all highly speculative, but so far my group has a 85% hit record on ICOM radios. The 7800 was 90%, missing only the model number...

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on August 01, 2016, 09:23:11 PM
ZS5J has posted a very good review.  I like his recommendations for enhancements - especially the user selectable multi-knob frequency tuning adjustments and the external HDMI panadapter  - but the 7300 as is must be pretty good since this is his second :) 7300.

http://www.eham.net/reviews/review/142862
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: OK4FX on August 01, 2016, 09:42:34 PM
... I like his recommendations for enhancements - especially the user selectable multi-knob frequency tuning adjustments...
I saw a few other hams who recommended multi-knob as secondary tuning knob, but I think this isn't that simple. For example, if you engage RIT or XIT then multi-knob is already occupied with that.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on August 05, 2016, 09:31:34 PM
My question, why? Why do you need a second freq tuning knob?
If you want a radio with two tuning knobs, you should buy one with two knobs.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on August 06, 2016, 01:16:50 PM
My question, why? Why do you need a second freq tuning knob?
If you want a radio with two tuning knobs, you should buy one with two knobs.

I think the overall idea is to just use the tuning knob for tuning (so only one tuning knob) but to use the Multi-knob to set the frequency tuning increments according to a user's preferences for quick jumps to a desired increment.  I'm not sure if the current tuning knob could do this on it's own as currently configured or if it might need some augmented functionality (such as a turn and/or a push) from the Multi-knob.  I think it's more of a concept than a particular implementation at this point.  Apparently Kenwood has something similar as a frame of reference.  I've seen other radio tuning implementations that offer forward and reverse adjustments with three different increments (small, medium, large) and it is a nice way when you get close to help snap the tuning in.  (The one I saw I think moved the pointer up or down to the nearest 500, 1000, or 3000 Hz, but I might be off on this.)  Setting aside the exact details, I think the idea here is to give the user a way to define the increments; once those increments are configured it's just a matter of whether the current tuning knob can invoke the direction and increment or whether the Multi-knob would need to be used in conjunction with the tuning knob.

"Allow the Multi knob to be used to change frequency in pre-programmed steps, such as 1 Khz, 5 Khz or 10 Khz steps. This allows for quick and precise QSY. If a station says go up 5 Khz, it will just be one click of the multi knob (if 5 Khz per step is selected). This is commonly used in Kenwood equipment."
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on August 06, 2016, 03:39:18 PM
A simple tap on the screen allows the 7300 to examine signals on the scope. See a sig, tap on its trace in the waterfall, and your there. Then press the auto tune and your there, never having touched a knob.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on August 06, 2016, 08:24:46 PM
A simple tap on the screen allows the 7300 to examine signals on the scope. See a sig, tap on its trace in the waterfall, and your there. Then press the auto tune and your there, never having touched a knob.

So, the procedure is to tune to the QSO then tune up on top of it?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on August 07, 2016, 05:42:48 AM
I'm not talking about the transmitter.
Tuning RX.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on August 07, 2016, 11:01:56 AM
I'm not talking about the transmitter.
Tuning RX.

Ah. Makes sense. That's good information. Sort of analogous to hovering over a trace with PowerSDR. It shows you the frequency you are hovering over but doesn't change til you click. Can it also be set to just tune there when you tap on the trace?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on August 07, 2016, 11:26:00 AM
Press and hold, tunes the radio to that trace. Tap, and a pop up shows a zoomed view, that I can fine tune by pressing on the zoomed in trace.
Tap the MHz display, and change band pop up shows bands to select, or increment up of down in 1mhz steps.
Tap on the kHz display, and the VFO knob tuning steps can be selected.
Press and hold the Hz display, and the 10hz digit turns on, or off.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on August 07, 2016, 02:27:56 PM
A simple tap on the screen allows the 7300 to examine signals on the scope. See a sig, tap on its trace in the waterfall, and your there. Then press the auto tune and your there, never having touched a knob.

In the manual it seems to indicate the auto tune is for CW but maybe it works for SSB also?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N8CM on August 08, 2016, 06:54:19 AM
Auto tune only works for CW. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9IQ on August 08, 2016, 07:04:43 AM
Holding the TUNE button for about 1 second initiates a "manual" tuning operation.

The 7300 can also be programmed to automatically initiate a tuning operation if the frequency has changed by more than 1% and the PTT is keyed. This feature is accessible under SET > Function > Tuner > PTT Start.

- Glenn W9IQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N8CM on August 08, 2016, 07:27:17 AM
Holding the TUNE button for about 1 second initiates a "manual" tuning operation.

The 7300 can also be programmed to automatically initiate a tuning operation if the frequency has changed by more than 1% and the PTT is keyed. This feature is accessible under SET > Function > Tuner > PTT Start.

- Glenn W9IQ

I stand corrected, thanks Glenn.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on August 08, 2016, 08:38:27 AM
Holding the TUNE button for about 1 second initiates a "manual" tuning operation.
- Glenn W9IQ

Auto tune only works for CW.  

It should be noted that the "Tune(r)" and "Auto Tune" are two different buttons with two different functions.

Auto Tune is for auto tuning your CW signal to the other stations freq and Tune(r) is for tuning the Antenna tuner.

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N8CM on August 08, 2016, 09:47:12 AM
Holding the TUNE button for about 1 second initiates a "manual" tuning operation.
- Glenn W9IQ

Auto tune only works for CW.  

It should be noted that the "Tune(r)" and "Auto Tune" are two different buttons with two different functions.

Auto Tune is for auto tuning your CW signal to the other stations freq and Tune(r) is for tuning the Antenna tuner.

Stan K9IUQ

Correct, and I shouldn't be answering posts before I've had my morning coffee, as it's obvious that I cannot read very well.  ;D  Auto Tune, as Stan states only works for CW, when pushed it will tune to the strongest CW signal. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9IQ on August 08, 2016, 10:32:09 AM
Well I guess I was the one that misread the intent. As you were...

- Glenn W9IQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on August 09, 2016, 02:14:20 PM
Sorry for the basic question, but what makes the Auto Tune useful for CW but not for SSB?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: G4DWV on August 09, 2016, 02:56:59 PM
Sorry for the basic question, but what makes the Auto Tune useful for CW but not for SSB?
With CW, one has to be on the exact frequency of the other station, whilst with SSB you just tune until it sounds right.

73 de Guy G4DWV/4X1LT
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9IQ on August 09, 2016, 03:40:01 PM
More to the point, the transceiver is able to easily determine the carrier frequency of a CW signal and zero in on it.

While it would be a nice feature to do the same on SSB, it is much more difficult to determine the carrier frequency of an SSB signal since there is no reference carrier and speech patterns vary widely.

- Glenn W9IQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N5PG on August 10, 2016, 10:09:17 PM
How about when chasing a DXpedition working split, how quick/easy to immediately change to listening to the pile for a few seconds before reverting back and calling the DX  using the freq you were just listening on ? Like TF-Set on Kenwoods or A/B on single rcvr rigs ? Is the 7300 any different ?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on August 11, 2016, 05:54:12 AM
How about when chasing a DXpedition working split, how quick/easy to immediately change to listening to the pile for a few seconds before reverting back and calling the DX  using the freq you were just listening on ? Like TF-Set on Kenwoods or A/B on single rcvr rigs ? Is the 7300 any different ?

No different. When working split, push and hold the momentary "XFC" button next to the tuning knob. It lets you listen to the pile-up frequency, and tune around to find the station the DX is working. Then let go of "XFC" and you're back listening to the DX, while transmitting on his last station worked frequency.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N5PG on August 11, 2016, 11:16:42 PM
How about when chasing a DXpedition working split, how quick/easy to immediately change to listening to the pile for a few seconds before reverting back and calling the DX  using the freq you were just listening on ? Like TF-Set on Kenwoods or A/B on single rcvr rigs ? Is the 7300 any different ?

No different. When working split, push and hold the momentary "XFC" button next to the tuning knob. It lets you listen to the pile-up frequency, and tune around to find the station the DX is working. Then let go of "XFC" and you're back listening to the DX, while transmitting on his last station worked frequency.

Excellent, just like the TF-Set button I remember on my old TS-930S, makes it about impossible to transmit on "wrong VFO" :)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AE5X on August 12, 2016, 04:16:14 AM
Word on the street is that a new SDR rig from Icom will soon be available - the IC-7610, with more features and better specs than the '7300.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZENKI on August 12, 2016, 04:46:00 AM
Interesting news. This will entrench Icoms position  as the world leader in Knobbed front panel DDC/DUC SDR transceiver production. Its unfortunate that  other SDR radio makers have persisted with the black model, a model of radio that most hams  dont want. The success if the IC7300 is  direct reflection of the market need for a knobbed SDR radio.

If the IC7610 is a real product and is a true dual slice high DDC/DUC radio, it  will mark the demise of  many in the legacy transceiver market. These companies will not be able to compete on price of the manufacturing cost savings from manufacturing a DDC/DUC platform.

I vote for the IC7610 to have a calibrated S-meter, clean high voltage PA with pre-distortion along with a high performance DDC receiver.  I guess time will tell.

Word on the street is that a new SDR rig from Icom will soon be available - the IC-7610, with more features and better specs than the '7300.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on August 12, 2016, 11:00:34 AM
Word on the street is that a new SDR rig from Icom will soon be available - the IC-7610, with more features and better specs than the '7300.

Maybe they'll tease something at JARL next weekend.  If they do we might see it in time for Dayton.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6JH on August 12, 2016, 04:37:00 PM
This claims it will be at the Tokyo Ham Fair. We'll see.
http://www.cqdx.ru/ham/new-equipment/hamleaks-ham-fair-2016-in-tokyo-japan/ (http://www.cqdx.ru/ham/new-equipment/hamleaks-ham-fair-2016-in-tokyo-japan/)

I've been kind of lukewarm to the 7300, so if there's really a 7610 in the pipeline I may just wait.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on August 13, 2016, 08:38:55 PM
What additional features/specs over the IC-7300 should the purported IC-7610 offer?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZS5J on August 14, 2016, 12:06:29 AM
What additional features/specs over the IC-7300 should the purported IC-7610 offer?


I own an IC-7300 since they were first released, and I have just purchased a second IC-7300 arriving this week. What I would like in an IC-7610 (that is missing from the IC-7300) would be:

1) HDMI high speed, low latency video output
2) Minimum 2 RF connectors....preferably 3
3) Larger built-in screen than the one the IC-7300 uses
4) Ability to go down to 0 Hz and up to 4000 Hz TX audio
5) Keyboard and/or mouse connectivity
6) Dual receivers
7) More options on the back panel - the IC-7300 is a bit sparse. Including....
a) Separate receive input loops
b) Low power transverter ports...and display of VHF/UHF transverter frequency on the rig
c) I/Q output

8) What would be REALLY nice, and no other manufacturer has this yet, is if they could incorporate a PROPER
graphical antenna analyser on the screen - much the same as the youkits one. The basic one they have used
for the past 15 years - also in the IC-7300, where you have to manually key your mic 8 or 10 times is very
clunky and last century. It should draw the SWR and impedance curves on the screen....automatically, when
selected

I would buy the IC-7610 if it had the above included
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on August 14, 2016, 04:25:11 PM
What additional features/specs over the IC-7300 should the purported IC-7610 offer?


I own an IC-7300 since they were first released, and I have just purchased a second IC-7300 arriving this week. What I would like in an IC-7610 (that is missing from the IC-7300) would be:

1) HDMI high speed, low latency video output
2) Minimum 2 RF connectors....preferably 3
3) Larger built-in screen than the one the IC-7300 uses
4) Ability to go down to 0 Hz and up to 4000 Hz TX audio
5) Keyboard and/or mouse connectivity
6) Dual receivers
7) More options on the back panel - the IC-7300 is a bit sparse. Including....
a) Separate receive input loops
b) Low power transverter ports...and display of VHF/UHF transverter frequency on the rig
c) I/Q output

8) What would be REALLY nice, and no other manufacturer has this yet, is if they could incorporate a PROPER
graphical antenna analyser on the screen - much the same as the youkits one. The basic one they have used
for the past 15 years - also in the IC-7300, where you have to manually key your mic 8 or 10 times is very
clunky and last century. It should draw the SWR and impedance curves on the screen....automatically, when
selected

I would buy the IC-7610 if it had the above included

With all those features in a 7610, what would they add to make you want to buy their more upper tier radios (77xx,78xx) SDR replacements?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on August 14, 2016, 05:32:30 PM
ZS5J

Sounds like you want a Flex...

73  W9OY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on August 14, 2016, 07:08:28 PM
With all those features in a 7610, what would they add to make you want to buy their more upper tier radios (77xx,78xx) SDR replacements?

If the 7610 is good enough, they may not need higher-priced models anymore.  Between the 7300 and 7610 their sales numbers are going to be very good.  Lower cost to make, higher profit per unit, lots of units sold because the price is attractive.   Their bottom-line numbers are probably going to be a lot better than in their pre-SDR days even if their most expensive box is $3-4K. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on August 14, 2016, 07:13:27 PM
What additional features/specs over the IC-7300 should the purported IC-7610 offer?


I own an IC-7300 since they were first released, and I have just purchased a second IC-7300 arriving this week. What I would like in an IC-7610 (that is missing from the IC-7300) would be:

1) HDMI high speed, low latency video output
2) Minimum 2 RF connectors....preferably 3
3) Larger built-in screen than the one the IC-7300 uses
4) Ability to go down to 0 Hz and up to 4000 Hz TX audio
5) Keyboard and/or mouse connectivity
6) Dual receivers
7) More options on the back panel - the IC-7300 is a bit sparse. Including....
a) Separate receive input loops
b) Low power transverter ports...and display of VHF/UHF transverter frequency on the rig
c) I/Q output

8) What would be REALLY nice, and no other manufacturer has this yet, is if they could incorporate a PROPER
graphical antenna analyser on the screen - much the same as the youkits one. The basic one they have used
for the past 15 years - also in the IC-7300, where you have to manually key your mic 8 or 10 times is very
clunky and last century. It should draw the SWR and impedance curves on the screen....automatically, when
selected

I would buy the IC-7610 if it had the above included

With all those features in a 7610, what would they add to make you want to buy their more upper tier radios (77xx,78xx) SDR replacements?

1) 200W output power
2) Much larger enclosure with physical controls for most functions
3) Built-in power supply
4) 16-bit ADC with higher sampling rate. Not really needed, but will appease those looking strictly at specs
5) Large, gorgeous display
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on August 14, 2016, 07:37:16 PM
What additional features/specs over the IC-7300 should the purported IC-7610 offer?


I own an IC-7300 since they were first released, and I have just purchased a second IC-7300 arriving this week. What I would like in an IC-7610 (that is missing from the IC-7300) would be:

1) HDMI high speed, low latency video output
2) Minimum 2 RF connectors....preferably 3
3) Larger built-in screen than the one the IC-7300 uses
4) Ability to go down to 0 Hz and up to 4000 Hz TX audio
5) Keyboard and/or mouse connectivity
6) Dual receivers
7) More options on the back panel - the IC-7300 is a bit sparse. Including....
a) Separate receive input loops
b) Low power transverter ports...and display of VHF/UHF transverter frequency on the rig
c) I/Q output

8) What would be REALLY nice, and no other manufacturer has this yet, is if they could incorporate a PROPER
graphical antenna analyser on the screen - much the same as the youkits one. The basic one they have used
for the past 15 years - also in the IC-7300, where you have to manually key your mic 8 or 10 times is very
clunky and last century. It should draw the SWR and impedance curves on the screen....automatically, when
selected

I would buy the IC-7610 if it had the above included

With all those features in a 7610, what would they add to make you want to buy their more upper tier radios (77xx,78xx) SDR replacements?

1) 200W output power
2) Much larger enclosure with physical controls for most functions
3) Built-in power supply
4) 16-bit ADC with higher sampling rate. Not really needed, but will appease those looking strictly at specs
5) Large, gorgeous display

Yup...sounds logical for a higher tier model. But I would delete the second receiver from K5TED's version of the 7610, and add it to your (N2WQ) upgraded model.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9AC on August 15, 2016, 05:10:57 AM
Quote
1) 200W output power
2) Much larger enclosure with physical controls for most functions
3) Built-in power supply
4) 16-bit ADC with higher sampling rate. Not really needed, but will appease those looking strictly at specs
5) Large, gorgeous display

We're not likely to see 200W in a mid-level transceiver from Icom.  IMO, it's a "dumb" power level unless regulations in the county of operation limit transmit power to 200W.  Going from 100W to 200W increases size, weight and adds unnecessary high PA and AC line current even from an efficient switch-mode supply.  Above 100W it's time to start thinking about an external amp to better distribute power, current, weight and cabinet size.  And, few amplifiers require 100+ watts of drive power to make 1.5KW.

The IC-7800's internal switcher produced large RFI/EMI through the low end of the MW band.  Remove the antenna and it got even worse.  Manufacturers need to pay better attention to EMC testing of their internal switching supplies.  
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W4FSA on August 15, 2016, 09:56:28 AM
Having 1 on 1 my FT-991 vs IC-7300 during field day, I now own a 7300 and have not looked back. I have an FTM-100 for C4FM.

Just using the Sherwood Receiver list as a loose benchmark, spec wise I would shoot to exceed the FTDX-5000 specs.
The number of outputs, screen size, dual receive, usb, IF out, etc, etc can't encroach the 7851.
Icom is not going to antagonize those who dropped 12K+ for a 7851, but those with 7800 / 7850 might have
not appreciate a 3K radio that outperforms their 9K+ box. Life and Technology move forward.

What will be interesting is how YaeWood responds.

Boyz and our toyz

W4FSA
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NI8R on August 21, 2016, 04:34:28 PM
color=red] Now that I have this rig it has wetted my desire for SDRs and I will definitely step up to more advanced SDR in the future like the Flex 6 series. Thanks Icom for unlocking that need.[/color]


I found this I a recent review on the ic7300, just as I thought, it drives sales for both companies. sounds like a win win.

Greg ni8r
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K9IUQ on August 21, 2016, 04:42:55 PM
just as I thought, it drives sales for both companies. sounds like a win win.

Greg ni8r

It works BOTH ways Greg.  ;)

I bought a Flexradio and it made me want a radio with knobs......

The big Flex computer display sucks in a lot of hams to a black box Flexradio, until they discover all the frustrations and peculiarities that a computer and a SDR (driven by a mouse) brings to your enjoyment of hamming.  :D :D :D

Stan K9IUQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NI8R on August 21, 2016, 05:19:50 PM
Stan , the ic7851 has a panadapter that goes to that big monitor and all the knobs you can stand with a receiver that rivals any on the market sdr or not.

I have a 24 in monitor on it , the sdr's run on dual 29 inch 4k monitors, that really sucks them in :D :D :D :D :D


Greg ni8r
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: G4HAK on August 25, 2016, 03:32:56 AM
I know this is probably an old chestnut but as a bit of an old timer Im struggling with the "Touchscreen" Idea. (I hear you saying...come on..get up to date you old &*£$%!)
I have a mobile and a tablet and get on with them ok but after a while I find the whole touchy feely thing a bit weird. I love the actual display idea and the SDR technology. The Icom PRO series looks and works great but why this move towards putting my old maulers on a screen? Is it just because its cheaper to produce than some actual knobs/switches? I suppose so. I suspect that that this will go the same way as the mobiles industry...got to have the i1 i2 i3 i4 i5 i6......etc . same device  and the same fingerprint marks all over it (yes I DO wash my hands!) . I am convinced that this radio is a good performer for the price. No question. I imagine it it here in my shack...I think I want to change bands/filter or whatever...now wheres the control...ah wait a moment..Good thing Ive got Bi-focals..Its on the screen here...Better wipe the solderflux / biscuit crumbs of my fingers..ahh here it is..." Beep"....blast...wrong function..."Beep" to bring it back..... I am genuinly going to wait to see if they produce a similar radio with the OPTION of using touch screen or conventional Knobs. Im probably slapping the air..........is it just me?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on August 25, 2016, 05:03:22 AM
I am genuinly going to wait to see if they produce a similar radio with the OPTION of using touch screen or conventional Knobs. Im probably slapping the air..........is it just me?

Both have their advantages.  My vision is in decline (macular degeneration, etc.) and I find that computer/tablet/radio flatscreen displays are a godsend because they're bright and contrasty.  I have an IC-756 ProIII on the desk, and can no longer read the print under/on the buttons without using a flashlight, but I can make out the display just fine.  I agree when it comes to the tuning knob - clicking the screen and tweaking with the mouse wheel is OK, but having a big knob to turn as you tune around makes me happy.  For me the ideal setup is a mix of both physical and virtual.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: G4HAK on August 25, 2016, 07:45:54 AM
Physical and virtual - Yes that sums it up nicely..So with your vision situation have you played with the IC-7300 screen..if so i wonder what was your conclusion? small but managable?
This is really the only reason that I am pausing over the buy it now button. This will probably be my final affordable "Modern radio". I was looking at the TS590/FT950/FT1200DX then this came along and I am inpressed with the spec. Can't afford to wait for the next 2 to 3 thousand pounds radio. (Violins playing....). I really would appreciate any comments having the same thoughts. Unfortunately i am not in a position to view/try at an emporium either!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on August 25, 2016, 10:55:05 AM
Physical and virtual - Yes that sums it up nicely..So with your vision situation have you played with the IC-7300 screen..if so i wonder what was your conclusion? small but managable?
This is really the only reason that I am pausing over the buy it now button. This will probably be my final affordable "Modern radio". I was looking at the TS590/FT950/FT1200DX then this came along and I am inpressed with the spec. Can't afford to wait for the next 2 to 3 thousand pounds radio. (Violins playing....). I really would appreciate any comments having the same thoughts. Unfortunately i am not in a position to view/try at an emporium either!

So I have to assume you don't have a smart phone since they all have touch screens.  Think about this, once you set the radio up to your liking you will rarely have to access the touch screen and just use the tuning knob, volume control, and RF gain control while operating.  All of the radios you are looking at have imbedded memory functions that require pressing multiple buttons.  I presently have an IC-7600 as my primary station rig and it is an excellent radio but the touch screen on the IC-7300 is so much easier to use.  I spent a couple of hours playing with one and it is incredibly easy to set up.  I almost bought one but decided to wait for the IC-7610 to be released.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on August 25, 2016, 11:22:48 AM
So with your vision situation have you played with the IC-7300 screen..if so i wonder what was your conclusion? small but managable?

No - I haven't seen a 7300 in the flesh yet.  From the youtube videos, the screen looks very manageable.  My impression is that Icom does user interface very well.  I came pretty close to ordering a 7300 to play with but decided to wait for the next model.

I'm not seeing many gripes about the 7300's screen - the clicky relay on CW generated a lot more discussion - screen size doesn't seem to be an issue with most 7300 owners.  Judging by the videos, wiith my vision I'd probably be ok with it if I could place it about 12" from my eyes.  I have a Flex Maestro and am able to put that about 18" away, but it has a bigger (8" screen).  With either device, the important text tends to be in a large font, which helps. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on August 25, 2016, 11:27:18 AM
I presently have an IC-7600 as my primary station rig and it is an excellent radio but the touch screen on the IC-7300 is so much easier to use. 

I have a 756 Pro III, and I've never much liked the on-screen UI, but that's a 10-year-old design from before the smartphone era.  The UI on the IC-7300 looks to be well thought out & efficient. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on August 25, 2016, 11:53:56 AM
The screen is quite small.
There is (or can be) a lot on it.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: G4HAK on August 25, 2016, 12:01:47 PM
Ok Many thanks for the comments and thoughts. I actually missed the obvious point about once the parameters are set I probably wont do a great deal of fingering the screen! (except to change bands or mode) Good point! Well I think this a bit of a wake up call for me......I didnt think I would see it but the screen might actually be and advantage when all told.  Anyway I guess the receiver performance sounds like a winner from what I have seen on the figures and sites...and decent audio without fancy microphones....
I appreciate those who will wait until the next model comes out but the price bracket is likely to be out of my ballpark...so.I reckon I'm won over...
Nice comments friends and nice helpful site
Kind Regards
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3PH on August 25, 2016, 12:34:07 PM
Anyway I guess the receiver performance sounds like a winner from what I have seen on the figures and sites...and decent audio without fancy microphones....

I worked a guy on 40 SSB last weekend who had a borrowed IC-7300 that he was using with a homebrew microphone (didn't get details, I presume an electret element since he said it cost him $1 in parts).  He had only had it set up for a few hours and said he felt he had figured out the interface.  The reason I called him was that his audio was really outstanding, really stood out as I tuned across the band.  Seems like a nice radio.  Price, at least from US resellers, has just dropped $100, too.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: G4HAK on August 27, 2016, 07:20:41 AM
No sign of any price drop in the UK yet. Talking to a freind on 40m who has a IC7410 and told me that he thinks it is every bit as good as the 7300 but with a bright monochrome screen instead of the all singing/dancing colour one. Anyone else done this comparison?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: G4PNX on August 27, 2016, 08:42:41 AM
No price drop...only the threat of a price increase of 10-15% from the rip off UK dealer network in the near future!!!

Seems the 7300 has had some effect in some quarters tho...Anan/Expert Electronics MB1 prices have taken a bit of a beating...not enuff...just a bit!!

David - G4PNX
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3AWS on August 28, 2016, 01:20:41 PM
I almost bought one but decided to wait for the IC-7610 to be released.
I am in agreement with you on this. I want a contest grade rig and the 7300 doesn't quite make the cut. The 7610 might be the perfect solution.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on August 28, 2016, 05:41:59 PM
Well, what eactly is the criteria for a "contest grade" radio? Is it size? Price? Number of buttons and knobs on the front panel (even if most of them aren't primarily used in the heat of the contest)?

The Kenwood TS-590SG is considered contest grade in many circles, despite it's price. Per the guru Sherwood numbers, the 7300 is rated higher in receiver performance. It's also small. The 7300 has all the necessary needed controls on the front panel...DSP filter selection, NB, NR, Twin PBT, RIT, Notch, spectrum scope/waterfall, AF/RF gain. SSB transmitter has adjustable bandwidth, equalizer, voice and CW keyer with memories. Plus, your contest logger program performs many radio functions through its keyboard. Receiver performance is the key factor, and the 7300 compares favorably with the top radios on the market, despite the price. The only real difference between it and a 7600 (which I own) is Dual Watch, APF, two RF outputs, and size. Dual Watch in a contest? Personally never use it. APF? Just OK, but not really necessary. You want another RF output? Buy a coaxial switch.

I'm sure many will disagree with me, but this is just my opinion. I think many are influenced by Icom's description of it being an "entry level radio"....can't be "contest grade", can it? I'd like to try it in a major contest, and see for myself. Maybe I'm all wet  ;)

73,  Bob K7JQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on August 29, 2016, 07:45:08 AM
I almost bought one but decided to wait for the IC-7610 to be released.
I am in agreement with you on this. I want a contest grade rig and the 7300 doesn't quite make the cut. The 7610 might be the perfect solution.

As a contester, and an actual 7300 owner, I find the 7300 perform flawlessly in contests. Having used a 7800, 781, and a K3, IMHO the 7300 is just as good as the others. My concern was using the touch screen for frequent filter selection, but as it turned a 300 Hz non-BPF filter works really well even on the crowded 40m CW band and there is no need to change the filter at all. My 3 CW filters are 450 Hz non-BPF, 300 Hz non-BPF, and 250 Hz BPF.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: PJ2BVU on August 29, 2016, 10:36:53 AM
Just being curious: what are non BPF filters? Are they external to thr rig?

Jean-Claude PJ2BVU
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3EVL on August 29, 2016, 11:46:01 AM
Apparently BPF is something to do with filter skirts for filter width below 500Hz where BPF = steeper skirts, non-BPF = softer skirts. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AA4PB on August 29, 2016, 11:57:46 AM
Apparently BPF is something to do with filter skirts for filter width below 500Hz where BPF = steeper skirts, non-BPF = softer skirts. 

I've read that terminology before. Kind of an odd terminology since both wide shape factor and narrow shape factor are bandpass filters (BPF).
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: PJ2BVU on August 29, 2016, 01:17:03 PM
So you can have a non-BPF BPF?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3EVL on August 29, 2016, 01:24:10 PM
Maybe it stands for "Basically Prefer Flex" :)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on August 29, 2016, 02:27:45 PM
Just being curious: what are non BPF filters? Are they external to thr rig?

Jean-Claude PJ2BVU

See a very old article on the subject:

http://www.seed-solutions.com/gregordy/Amateur%20Radio/Experimentation/CWFilter.htm

All modern Icom rigs have BPF and non-BPF filters

You can use the terminology to screen out Icom bashers who don't actually own one; works really well with Flex fanboys :-)

Seriously, the 7300 is the first Icom I have used where the BPF filters do not ring and are pleasant to the ear.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AA4PB on August 29, 2016, 03:00:02 PM
Icom manuals don't use the terms "BPF" and "Non-BPF". They use the terms "sharp" and "soft" to designate the two filter shape selections. The person who coined the term "Non-BPF" to describe the shape of a bandpass filter must not understand what a bandpass filter is  ;)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NI8R on August 29, 2016, 04:41:05 PM
sdrs do not have filters.


ni8r
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AA4PB on August 29, 2016, 06:37:43 PM
sdrs do not have filters.
ni8r

They don't have physical filters like crystal or mechanical filters. They certainly do have filters implemented in DSP.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3EVL on August 29, 2016, 06:39:38 PM
sdrs do not have filters.


ni8r

I think you'll find they do.  Lookup FIR filters, for example.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on August 29, 2016, 08:31:36 PM
sdrs do not have filters.


ni8r

Sure they do.  they use the Laplace or Z-Transform series to determine the desired position of poles and zeros which simulates a filter response.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on August 30, 2016, 04:56:52 AM
I like the reviewer who said the 7300 was not great because it did not have roofing filters but he did not need them.
I think a number of Icom's have had hard and soft filter settings.
Did not the 756 pro series have that?
 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: PJ2BVU on August 30, 2016, 07:18:53 AM
The link posted by N2WQ explains the origin of this term:
On the 756Pro in CW mode a BPF indicator is lit when the filter shape is sharp, this indicator is off when the shape is soft.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on August 30, 2016, 12:18:21 PM
The link posted by N2WQ explains the origin of this term:
On the 756Pro in CW mode a BPF indicator is lit when the filter shape is sharp, this indicator is off when the shape is soft.


IMHO Icom has done a poor job documenting the feature and more importantly how to make the most out of it. The indicator is on when the operator dials a filter that is less than 500 Hz in bandwidth without tweaking the PBT knobs. So when the indicator is on you have the alternative filter shape.

You can create a 500 Hz filter or less by setting a "base" bandwidth of 600 Hz and then reduce it down to 500 Hz by tweaking the PBT knobs. The filter is not considered BPF and the indicator is not on.

The practical implication is that you can have both 250 Hz BPF (sharp skirts) and 250 Hz non-BPF (soft skirts) filters that sound very different. Further, the 7300 has really effective non-BPF filters and that's why it is such a pleasure to run all the time with a 250 Hz filter (I could not do that with my 756ProIII or the 7800s at another station).  Same applies to SSB of course.

BTW, I also have a QS1R and the SDRMax software has also implemented extremely pleasent narrow filters. Now, however, the QS1R is 100% dedicated to the public skimmer node and I don't use it for contesting anymore.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on August 30, 2016, 01:04:23 PM
I like the reviewer who said the 7300 was not great because it did not have roofing filters but he did not need them.
I think a number of Icom's have had hard and soft filter settings.
Did not the 756 pro series have that?
 


I have an original 756PRO (JA model) and it doesn't have the 'soft' or 'hard' filter settings. It also has a lousy noise blanker that was improved (adjustable) in the later versions.

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AA4PB on August 30, 2016, 01:53:14 PM
Icom didn't add the hard/soft filter settings until the 756PROII. I have a 756PRO (U.S. version) and it has no hard/soft setting.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NI8R on August 30, 2016, 04:44:04 PM
sdrs do not have filters.
ni8r

They don't have physical filters like crystal or mechanical filters. They certainly do have filters implemented in DSP.



sdr's have software defined filters, not crystal filter. I guess if you want a reason to argue or redefine fixed versus infinite, we will be here all night. I cannot buy a roofing filter for my flex or anan.
They have enough of Fir filters to last a lifetime.

Greg ni8r
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on September 01, 2016, 06:29:06 PM
sdrs do not have filters.


ni8r

Software defined radios have Software defined filters.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on September 01, 2016, 09:42:27 PM
sdrs do not have filters.


ni8r

Software defined radios have Software defined filters.

There is one type of analog filter that an SDR will have;  After the antenna input, and before the Analog to Digital converter chip, the better radios have bandpass filters to reduce overload from strong signals outside the band of interest.  These filters are switched in automatically as you change bands.

Next, the ADC chip converts to digital.

Then, as everyone else asserts, accurately, the rest of the equivalent to IF, conversion, filtering and detection/decoding, is handled by software (firmware) running on the FPGA chip that comes after the ADC.

So again, in summary, the one type of analog filter that can still be found in an SDR, all the way from the $149 SDRplay, up to the multi-thousand dollar Flex 6700 are analog pre-selector filters on the input stage.

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KM9R on September 03, 2016, 10:10:28 PM
Are there any planned software upgrades for the 7300, if there is room, or is this as good as it gets for the 7300  ?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on September 04, 2016, 12:08:46 PM
Are there any planned software upgrades for the 7300, if there is room, or is this as good as it gets for the 7300  ?

This is a good question - hopefully Icom will keep making improvements, especially with input from users.  Seems like the ability to keep delivering upgrades should be a competitive advantage for products with heavy software architectures.  Clearly, they are staying aggressive as evidenced by their recent $100 price drop.  Maybe they will continue lowering the price to stay super competitive or maybe they will provide a mix of price reductions and new enhancements to help keep the competitive value high.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KK5DR on September 04, 2016, 12:27:45 PM
Typical ICOM firmware updates are released about a year after the model is released.
It took a good while for an update on my 7600.
If there are legitimate issues, they will be fixed in the next update. If there are serious problems, it will be sooner.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 06, 2016, 08:52:09 AM
I find all the comments very interesting, the first of many is the use of BPF, that term is used in many different ways but used in the radio's front end would be RF BPF which most radio's have but when it comes to the Flex 6000 series to get that you need to go with the 6500 or 6700 and the 6300 is left out. The RF band pass filters in front of the SDR RX will help the radio if you are on one band lets say 20 and the ham down the street is on 40, aka almost like a field day setup. The spec which determines the ability of the RX to perform better in this case is the second order IMD in most of the ARRL lab reviews, sorry but Sherwood doesn't seem to post this on the chart for comparing RX performance but the ARRL does. When you look at the 2nd order data from the ARRL you will see some radio's are better than -75 to -85 dbm, the Flex 6500,6700,Icom 7851,Yaesu FTDX5000&FTDX3000, the older radio's like the FT1000MP even were very good and the MK5 and Field were good as long as you used the VFR adjustable filter. These radio's if you are talking contest grade will be in the running  when used with a competitive antenna farm and anything in the -40 to -60 dbm are kind of ho hum. Is the 7300 contest grad well that would really depend on your antenna system, if its a modest one it should work but if you have stacked mono band beams at 50-100' and phased verticals on the low bands I think not for a competitive advantage. For most of the year it would do fine but during a 48 hour CQWW phone or CW contest I don't feel it would do the job and no way would it be competitive in a SO2R setup, that is were the 2nd order higher IMD spec will have the advantage plus the use of good external aftermarket band pass filters that will help.
I think the next generation Icom radio that should be out soon like the 7610 if there smart will have better front end BPF plus the ability to use aftermarket BPF's even before there own to give the radio the ability to do battle at the larger stations in a high RF environment. IF you have a tribander,Hex beam,Quad on the roof up 30-50' and dipoles on the low bands up around 50' the 7300 would do fine IMHO but if the antennas are larger, higher and you have hams right down the street I think that radio would not be the one of choice.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on September 06, 2016, 12:56:01 PM
Is the 7300 contest grad well that would really depend on your antenna system, if its a modest one it should work but if you have stacked mono band beams at 50-100' and phased verticals on the low bands I think not for a competitive advantage. For most of the year it would do fine but during a 48 hour CQWW phone or CW contest I don't feel it would do the job and no way would it be competitive in a SO2R setup, that is were the 2nd order higher IMD spec will have the advantage plus the use of good external aftermarket band pass filters that will help.
I think the next generation Icom radio that should be out soon like the 7610 if there smart will have better front end BPF plus the ability to use aftermarket BPF's even before there own to give the radio the ability to do battle at the larger stations in a high RF environment. IF you have a tribander,Hex beam,Quad on the roof up 30-50' and dipoles on the low bands up around 50' the 7300 would do fine IMHO but if the antennas are larger, higher and you have hams right down the street I think that radio would not be the one of choice.

The 7300 did exceptionally well in a SO2R environment during IARU. 4el 40m yagi and 6 el tribanders, up at 95' and 110' respectively. Second radio was 756P3. Both radios running 1500W.

Having used 756P3, 7800, and K3, my personal vote goes to the 7300.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 08, 2016, 09:58:37 AM
The radio decodes CW, does it not?
I know it decodes rtty.

I never had a rig that decoded cw and it might help when guys go faster then I can copy.

How would you SEND rtty with the 7300?

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: M5AED on September 09, 2016, 02:26:43 AM
Old Chinese proverb :
product work better in hands of user than in mind of non user
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 09, 2016, 05:22:41 AM
Read the entire owners manual, nothing in it about CW decode.
Maybe they will add that in the future.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on September 09, 2016, 07:45:51 AM
Read the entire owners manual, nothing in it about CW decode.
Maybe they will add that in the future.


The 7300 does not decode CW. Unless things have changed, I've yet to see a CW decoder that will "reliably" decode anything other than a perfect fist and strong, noise and QSB-free signal. Best to brush up on your copying, and decode in your head  ;)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on September 09, 2016, 08:38:32 AM

How would you SEND rtty with the 7300?



Without the capability to use an external keyboard, you have to use the eight RTTY memory macros, or the touchscreen keyboard (really not feasible). Best to use an external PC RTTY program. Like the 7600, the new 7610 will have a USB port for an external keyboard.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VK3BL on September 10, 2016, 08:13:35 AM
Without the capability to use an external keyboard, you have to use the eight RTTY memory macros, or the touchscreen keyboard (really not feasible). Best to use an external PC RTTY program. Like the 7600, the new 7610 will have a USB port for an external keyboard.

Its a great feature for contesting (you can increment a counter for the report) or snagging a DXPedition, but to have a rag chew a computer with a keyboard is king!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NI8R on September 10, 2016, 03:42:43 PM
Not sure why it would not be like the 7851  with a usb keyboard.

The 7851 has mouse and keyboard support. not that expensive to add


Greg
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on September 10, 2016, 05:28:26 PM
Not sure why it would not be like the 7851  with a usb keyboard.

The 7851 has mouse and keyboard support. not that expensive to add


Greg

Icom has to reserve some features for their higher end radios. If the 7300 had all the extra stuff people have requested, there would be no need to buy the upgrade models  :o
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on September 12, 2016, 07:54:31 PM
Why doesn't a IC-7851 have integrated no-tune QRO? Not that expensive to add.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ZENKI on September 13, 2016, 01:39:43 AM
A direct sampling IC7851 with  clean transmitter and calibrated S-meter would make a nice radio. It would also be very popular if they released a 500 watt version.

These days ham companies should not offer any options,  they should equip and sell radios with all options and optional extras. The distribution and costs savings would be enormous.

Why the hell should you pay for 15000 for a radio and find that you have to buy or make a amplifier keying interface. This stupidity in marketing is very perplexing. Its bizarre as some car companies who offer those ridiculous space saver Tires  or no spare Tire at all!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMSTUDY on September 13, 2016, 08:06:40 PM
Somewhat off the current sub-thread(s) but on the overall 7300 thread.... has anyone with a 7300 found a reason or need to use an external antenna tuner?  If so, which tuner and why?  Thx
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9WQA on September 13, 2016, 08:37:20 PM
Somewhat off the current sub-thread(s) but on the overall 7300 thread.... has anyone with a 7300 found a reason or need to use an external antenna tuner?  If so, which tuner and why?  Thx
i use an sg230 with my 450d and ic7300 for use with a long wire. the internal tuners dont do untuned wires.
in also used the fc40 yaesu with the 450d but the sg is better.
the icom ah4 should do well with the 7300.
i used it with the same long wire with an ic7000.
sg was better!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VK3BL on September 14, 2016, 01:49:06 AM
Somewhat off the current sub-thread(s) but on the overall 7300 thread.... has anyone with a 7300 found a reason or need to use an external antenna tuner?  If so, which tuner and why?  Thx

Plenty of people will be using external tuners.  The internal one is only good for 'touching up' a dipole, vertical or beam when its wet or you're in the ssb portion of the band and its tuned for CW etc.  Or an amp which doesn't have dedicated input filters for warc bands.

Of course, you can engage 'emergency' mode, and it will tune a lot of things, but be limited to 50 watts.

I use a Palstar AT2K with mine when tuning a G5RV.  Nothing beats a big well built manual tuner for QRO.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2WQ on September 14, 2016, 02:38:43 AM
Somewhat off the current sub-thread(s) but on the overall 7300 thread.... has anyone with a 7300 found a reason or need to use an external antenna tuner?  If so, which tuner and why?  Thx

As with everything else in life, there are best practices and then there is reality (i.e., people ignoring the best practices).

The best practice is to build resonant antennas. The best practice is to make sure there is over 5,000 ohm of common mode choke resistance. The best practice is to have at least 32 radials on the ground for vertical antennas.

In reality people don't or can't follow best practices and end up with compromises. If you must use a tuner, use a remote one, as close to the antenna feed point as possible. Your rig's tuner should be your last resort.

Finally, don't forget that when you use an amp the internal tuner becomes irrelevant and what matters is your amp's ability to match the mismatched load. Good amps can match up to 3:1 SWR.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on September 18, 2016, 09:01:13 AM
Somewhat off the current sub-thread(s) but on the overall 7300 thread.... has anyone with a 7300 found a reason or need to use an external antenna tuner?  If so, which tuner and why?  Thx

As with everything else in life, there are best practices and then there is reality (i.e., people ignoring the best practices).

The best practice is to build resonant antennas. The best practice is to make sure there is over 5,000 ohm of common mode choke resistance. The best practice is to have at least 32 radials on the ground for vertical antennas.

In reality people don't or can't follow best practices and end up with compromises. If you must use a tuner, use a remote one, as close to the antenna feed point as possible. Your rig's tuner should be your last resort.

Finally, don't forget that when you use an amp the internal tuner becomes irrelevant and what matters is your amp's ability to match the mismatched load. Good amps can match up to 3:1 SWR.

You are absolutely correct, if this was commercial radio.  The fact is that this is AMATEUR radio and hams have been loading up the bed springs and tin roofs for as long as there have been transmitters.

The little Icom AH-4 is an excellent portable auto tuner and will load end fed wires, dipoles, and loop antennas very well, even balanced lines.  The trick with any end fed wire is to have a good counterpoise (RF Ground) and avoid a half wavelength on the band or bands of interest because the impedance is just too high for the tuner to resolve.

I have a TenTec 238 tuner in the shack along with a very old Johnson Matchbox and they both work great.  As long as the antenna is near resonance or at least presents a reasonable impedance the tuners will match it nicely with very little loss.  I use balance feed lines here so loss is kept to a bare minimum.

So toss up some wire and have fun, keep in mind that an end fed wire antenna can be very effective and don't let anyone tell you it can't.  If however you are setting up a 50 thousand dollar contest station or a commercial radio station then you must adhere to good accepted engineering practice.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: M1CTK on May 02, 2017, 03:13:37 PM
I can't get the scope with the RS BA-1 software to show...can't seem to activate it even though I set the baud rate to 115200 bps, any ideas anyone please ?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VK3BL on May 19, 2017, 01:15:19 PM
The fact is that this is AMATEUR radio and hams have been loading up the bed springs and tin roofs for as long as there have been transmitters.


Tin roof, FT-817ND 5 Watts Phone and LDG tuner got me to Cambodia to Brunei 5/9.

Long live tin roofs!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AF4RK on May 20, 2017, 06:52:40 AM
Somewhat off the current sub-thread(s) but on the overall 7300 thread.... has anyone with a 7300 found a reason or need to use an external antenna tuner?  If so, which tuner and why?  Thx
7300 Internal Tuner Specification from the manual: 16 to 150 ohms.  that's very limited.  In contrast, the LDG IT 100 tunes from 4 to 800 ohms.  Forget about End Fed Half Waves! Not even an OCF without a balun.  And do not use ladder line!  I use a Palstar AT2K for my Alpha 86.  The Alpha has a sensitive SWR fault setting.  Since I only use resonant antennas, the internal tuner works just fine to tweak a 2:1 SWR.
73
AF4RK
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on May 21, 2017, 12:06:02 PM
Somewhat off the current sub-thread(s) but on the overall 7300 thread.... has anyone with a 7300 found a reason or need to use an external antenna tuner?  If so, which tuner and why?  Thx
7300 Internal Tuner Specification from the manual: 16 to 150 ohms.  that's very limited.  In contrast, the LDG IT 100 tunes from 4 to 800 ohms.  Forget about End Fed Half Waves! Not even an OCF without a balun.  And do not use ladder line!  I use a Palstar AT2K for my Alpha 86.  The Alpha has a sensitive SWR fault setting.  Since I only use resonant antennas, the internal tuner works just fine to tweak a 2:1 SWR.
73
AF4RK

I have not seen a radio with an internal tuner that has a broad matching range, those are designed for resonant antennas and will get you from one end to the other on a 80/75 meter dipole.

Quote
And do not use ladder line!
   That's a pretty stupid statement considering the radio is configured for an unbalanced coaxial output, I don't even know what radio you have but it is too.  LDG Tuners are junk in my estimation.  The AH4 has a far broader range, will work automatically with the IC-7300, and will match end fed wires, dipoles, loops, and even balanced feedlines.

I have five different tuners here including a TenTec 238 that will load nearly anything and still run legal limit.  I also have an MN-2000, a Johnson Matchbox, and several legal limit home brew tuners.  So I guess I don't understand how the IC-7300's antenna tuner is an issue since it is no different than the one in the Yaesu FT-3000, or the Kenwood TS-590SG.  In fact, the $4500.00 Flex radios don't even come with a tuner.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on May 25, 2017, 07:40:00 AM
The reviews for this radio are really off the charts.
Amazing for a low priced radio...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on May 26, 2017, 01:56:53 AM
Amazing numbers for sale on s/h market for an "off the charts" "amazing" radio.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on May 26, 2017, 05:35:12 AM
Not around here.
I think I have seen 1 used one for sale.
None on ebay at the moment, all new, some over list price!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on May 26, 2017, 09:23:14 AM
Regularly for sale here.

Last one I saw was ebay yesterday or day before at "buy it now" of around £800 - typical new price here £1200.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on May 26, 2017, 10:24:21 AM
I suspect that is the soon to arrive new one.
New I think they go for under $1400.00 here.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on May 26, 2017, 10:33:06 AM
I suspect that is the soon to arrive new one.
New I think they go for under $1400.00 here.

Don't think so............https://www.hamradio.co.uk/amateur-radio-base-station-radio-icom-base-station-radio-pc-309.php

and...........................http://hamradiostore.co.uk/amateur-radio/hf-multiband-recievers/icom-hf/icom-ic-7300-hf-4m.html
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on May 26, 2017, 11:48:22 AM
$1349.00 free shipping no tax.


https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/ico-ic-7300?seid=dxese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-dxese1-_-icom&gclid=CIT5ka6cjtQCFZ26wAoddpwFiA
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3RSW on May 26, 2017, 05:35:28 PM
You two do realize your in two separate countries with different taxing systems don't you? ;)
Or maybe as frequently happens I've missed something.  ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AE5X on May 26, 2017, 07:36:49 PM
Maybe these guys could do an Icom ad in Scottish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLxLmFhROqY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on May 27, 2017, 01:01:50 AM
You two do realize your in two separate countries with different taxing systems don't you? ;)
Or maybe as frequently happens I've missed something.  ;D


Oh geez so we are.  :o

Point I was trying to get across was s/h price relative to new price here........quite a bit less than new and going down....... and certainly non above new price as N2DTS has seen.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on May 27, 2017, 01:09:12 AM
Maybe these guys could do an Icom ad in Scottish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLxLmFhROqY

........absolutely, and ideal for the Icom radio with "big TV screen" market ..............>

 (http://horrorcultfilms.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/laurel-hardy.jpg)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3RSW on May 27, 2017, 06:38:51 AM
Great pix, two very funny gents, right up there with Laural and Hardy.

And I have Say, there's no such thing as free shipping for long.  It's subsidized by multiple orders over time from a "favored" customer or the potential of one, or a minimum cost order, or a subtle chink in the wholesale vs. retail differential, or by attempting to unload poor product sellers, or sales of a hot product with net profits already realized for the year, or temporary loss leader to retain market, or myriads of other business reasons including driving others out of business, or going out of business yourself.  ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on May 27, 2017, 07:02:10 AM
Great pix, two very funny gents, right up there with Laural and Hardy.



The best of the best..........humour that just doesn't age - that takes something very special.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 24, 2017, 08:57:11 AM
I picked up a 7300 yesterday, new at HRO for $1200.00, in store discount.
It had a problem at first, it was putting out 150 watts and was putting out 5 watts with the power turned down to zero, plus it had a motorboat type sound in voice modes, and the swr was off the scale into the dummy load.
I was going to go back and return it, but after a few power off and on's it seems normal.
Some sort of firmware problem, something was not loading right I suppose.

For the price, the radio works really well, a lot of bang for the buck.
Nit picks: an sdr should have continuously variable filters, a width and shift adjustments would be nice with 50 Hz to 10 KHz or more would be nice.
That is one of the huge advantages to sdr, the ability to make the filter whatever you want it to be.

The low frequency response on receive only seems to go down to about 200 Hz but TX audio can go down to 100 Hz.
For broadcast and AM listening, and maybe even essb, 50 Hz would be nice.

High frequency TX bandwidth is also limited, that is ok with me but many would like the ability to run it wider at times.
Its 3 KHz audio on AM, the ability to go to 4 or 5 would be nice.

The memory setup is not as user friendly as the other controls.

The display is nice, but a bit small..

That is about all I can think of, I like the fact that the A/B vfo can be on different bands.
The fan is quiet, the radio runs cold even at full power, its small, RX audio out is good, its quiet and sensitive, its got preamps, attenuators, and an rf gain control.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on June 24, 2017, 12:42:25 PM
Hi, you might want to join the Yahoo 7300 Group. There have been some recent discussions about receive/transmit bandwidth and why Icom chose what they did.

A lot of folks don't realize the built in antenna tuner is actually a 10:1 capable tuner. However, this wide capability is only available in "Emergency Mode". This is simply a reduction of power output to 50 Watts.
If you do digital, this shouldn't matter since 30 Watts is usually recommended.

There are some very knowledgeable folks on there and they are VERY friendly (unlike some snarky folks on here).

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9OY on June 24, 2017, 01:32:20 PM
I suspect the discrete bandwidth issue is a function of the DSP chip.  Tnx for the review.

73  W9OY
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 24, 2017, 03:58:53 PM
I don't have a problem with the antenna tuna, my antenna's have low swr where I operate and I have a 200 watt LDG tuna if I need it.

And yes, all the sdr's that don't use a computer (as in windoze) have limited bandwidth choices.
Must take some processing power...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 27, 2017, 09:02:18 AM
Unless people get the wrong idea, you CAN adjust the filters to anything within a range Icom gives you.
Each mode has 3 filter choices, you can set each one for any bandwidth you want within the range allowed.
On ssb and CW you can also pick hard or soft filter shape.

Not sure if that is better or worse then just having a knob to adjust bandwidth...
And it would be nice if the bandwidth choices were wider and not mode dependant like a real sdr.






Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 27, 2017, 07:50:37 PM
My erratic operation came back and will not seem to go away.
The tuner does not seem to work, the radio puts out 150 watts, and it sounds like something frying in the audio.
The alc and swr jump around all over the place.

All bands, all modes.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VK3TEX on June 28, 2017, 05:44:53 AM
I would take it back, get a good one.

It doesn't matter what type of radio you buy, sometimes these things happen.

When I bought my TS 990 it showed an intermittent fault about 3 months in, took it back to the dealer(long way 200 miles from me!)
Got it all the way there and fired it up to show the dealer but the fault disappeared so I felt a bit
Stupid, then drove all the way home.
The fault re surfaced about a week later, this time I took very good video footage of the problem,
Then back to the dealer again. I showed him my iPad footage and then he believed me!
Was sent back to Kenwood Australia and they had a hell of a time trying to find the fault.
After 2 months they stumbled onto the problem just brushed an internal coax cable and found the cable crimp connection not 100% good. Had a minute cable crimp defect enough to cause an intermittent fault that was very hard to track down!

Moral of the story, take some good video footage of the problem for future proof of defect....

Good Luck, I love my 7300. Great radio. I'm going to get the 7610 when it arrives and may sell my 990 depending on how the 7610 performs.

Regards,
Les VK3TEX.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 28, 2017, 07:24:07 AM
My erratic operation came back and will not seem to go away.
The tuner does not seem to work, the radio puts out 150 watts, and it sounds like something frying in the audio.
The alc and swr jump around all over the place.

All bands, all modes.


That is unusual.  The 7300 has one of the best quality ratings in the market right now and very few problems have been reported vs the number of radios sold.  I totally agree with Les, make a video of it acting up then take it back and get a good one.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 28, 2017, 07:57:01 AM
I will go back to HRO Saturday and hope they exchange it for a good one.
When I called, they seemed to think I was doing something wrong...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on June 28, 2017, 08:40:18 AM
My erratic operation came back and will not seem to go away.
The tuner does not seem to work, the radio puts out 150 watts, and it sounds like something frying in the audio.
The alc and swr jump around all over the place.

All bands, all modes.



Brett, 150W? that's clue #1. Is this a radio that's been modified? There are radios being sold that produce 135 W+.

Do you have a good dummy load? A GOOD wattmeter? Tried different power sources?

rpn
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 28, 2017, 11:11:33 AM
The radio was brand new in the unopened box.
I have the usual power supply, an astron 35 amp supply (non switching).
150 watts on cw and fm, 150 watts pep on ssb, 50 watts carrier on AM.
The antenna tuner does not work and the radio sometimes shows full scale swr, or no swr at all.
It makes a frying sound if I listen  on another receiver, which matches the meter display, the alc and current jump around to the static.

I may try and reload/upgrade the firmware.
Odd that it had the problem, but after I packed it up to send back, then unpacked it to play around with the receiver, it started working normal, and worked normal for days and many power on and off's.
I thought maybe some battery inside had charged up or firmware did a self check and fixed something, then the next day it wont work right at all.

I use the same setup as the elad used, the Anan uses, the KX2 and KX3 used.
It seems OK on cw and ssb except for the 150 watts out, I don't think I hear the noise on ssb.
If I turn the power down to zero, I get 4 to 10 watts out....

Some issue with the alc/swr stuff I suppose.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on June 28, 2017, 01:44:28 PM
Brett, OK. As a former IBM Engineer, I don't really believe in "lemons", but certainly, your radio has issues.
I would contact the seller and get an exchange.
It might be just a loose connector, but who knows? Who cares? You deserve nothing but a correctly performing radio.
There are guys selling "135 watt" radios. However, not only are these NOT under warranty, they will probably be 'splatter' boxes. If someone thinks the difference going from 100W to 135W is important, they need to go back to 11 Meters. Sorry, couldn't resist ;D
I bought my 7300 as soon as they were available and have had zero issues. The people who complain about the receiver being "too sensitive" (here on eHam) either have the pre-amp on or don't understand what an RF Gain control is.

BTW, on the Yahoo 7300 Group, there have been some people saying the radio's receiver didn't do well at Field Day. However, there were MANY other saying just the opposite.
Haven't figgered that out yet.

Let us know how the seller treats you, please.

ron (spelled my own name wrong, earlier! Had surgery today. ha ha)
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 28, 2017, 02:41:53 PM
I upgraded the firmware and the radio now puts out 180 watts!
Seems to sound fine on ssb, AM does 100 watts carrier and downward modulation, fm does 180 watts.

Anyone want to buy a supercharged 180 watt 7300?
I can let it go for $1500.00..
Just the thing for contests..
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on June 28, 2017, 03:15:31 PM
Brett, OK. As a former IBM Engineer, I don't really believe in "lemons", but certainly, your radio has issues.


Seriously?    No lemons? :-)

So you have never, ever [multiple choice]:

A.  Purchased an MFJ product

B.  Had a new item fail to work due to shock/vibration during shipping.

C.  Had a new item that simply did not work, since it was not tested.
    [Have you been in manufacturing during the last 10 years?  There is a new sickness, complete with text books,
     called "Statistical Quality Assurance" that the M.B.A.'s came up with to improve profit.  You stop testing each
     and every item you build.  You only test statistical samples.]

OK, so how about my average consumer experience with product lemons right out of the box;

1.  Comet H-422 antenna;   defective trap right out of the box.
2.  Comet CX-333 VHF/UHF antenna:   defective center radiator inside fiberglass dome.
3.  Brand new LMR-400UF jumper from Comm-Line Inc;    Shorted
4.  MFJ Switching Power Supply  "4230".   Dead as a brick.
5.  Handy Talkie, VHF/UHF, sent in for PCB exchange.
6.  MFJ-4422 30 amp current meter;  Don't get me started cussing.
7.  Brand New LDG AT1000 Pro II tuner and M-1000 meter;  upon opening box, meter movement was banging around inside chassis,
     fell out of mounting.
8.  Wavenode WN-2d digital power meter with 4 couplers;  HF-1 coupler defective, more than 20% out of calibration right out of box.
9.  MFJ-269C antenna analyzer;  Defective design for charging (sic) the battery pack, and wrongly designed knobs that split when you
     adjust the locking screws, which you need to remove in order to simply put the carry case onto or off the unit.
10.  ASTRON Power Supplies;   Did not bother to use locking output wiring bolts (keyed shafts), so that on EVERY single Astron
      I service, simply by attaching the wires and tightening the nuts, the output conductors inside the chassis end up rotating and
      shorting.   Or the fact that Astron only pays for Electrolytic filter capacitors that have a safe headroom of maybe 2 to 5 volts,
      so they blow up routinely.   Using large filter caps rated at only 20 volts on the pre-regulator 17 volt line.   I usually replace
      them with 30 volt electrolytics.

+  How about my Ford Explorer, that went back under warranty 7 times, to a total cost of over $5,000, for MFG defective
     wiring harness for the air-bag system they could not figure out.  [Yes, I am not exaggeration, in the end the factory had the
     dealer give me a loaner for 5 weeks while they completely took apart the new car and put an entire new chassis wiring
     harness from end to end.    No lemons.   Never :-)]

+  How about those "O" rings that blew up one of our space shuttles.  Or the faulty insulation that blew up the other one?

You are an engineer and have never experienced lemons?     There is junk everywhere.  You just have to be
that special unlucky customer.   In the global competitive "RACE TO THE BOTTOM", too many companies are getting
to be like MFJ, and cutting every single ounce of safety margin out of the parts, packaging, knobs, testing, etc.
I do honestly appreciate your optimism.    Please, no harm, no offense intended.
But I am still a working-stiff engineer at a large name brand manufacturer, and what I see
routinely makes me roll my eyes, say nasty things over lunch, and hold onto all packaging and paperwork
until I get past warranty period :-)

Cheers,

Neal
N6YFM
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 28, 2017, 07:19:25 PM
I think its kind of rare for a Japanese electronic product to have an issue.

I can see failures over time with ham radio gear, with swr, static buildup on antenna's, lightning, etc.
Out of the box failure is very rare I would think.

Out of the box failure with mfj stuff I have had, I would never power/use anything of theirs before checking it inside.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on June 28, 2017, 07:49:45 PM
Out of the box failure with mfj stuff I have had, I would never power/use anything of theirs before checking it inside.
It would be interesting to know, how many units they sell in a typical month, and how many are returned.

If all the 'lemon' reports are true, how do the manage to stay in business for so long. It must be a tiny percentage.

I have 3 or 4 of their products here, and they all work as described. Is the build quality and functionality all it could be, I don't know, but they do have a market.

73 de Vince, VA3VF
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on June 28, 2017, 10:42:20 PM

MFJ and some others that are street wise........don't underestimate the buying power of dumb/naive people in large groups.

That's how they manage to stay in business.  ;)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on June 28, 2017, 10:59:11 PM

It would be interesting to know, how many units they sell in a typical month, and how many are returned.


73 de Vince, VA3VF

..........and even more interesting to know how many are quietly fixed by the customer and not returned.  ;)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 29, 2017, 05:28:17 AM
Funny story, I went to a local fest many years ago and bought an MFJ antenna tuna, a 200 watt job, just because I wanted to get something and the tuner looks nice (and small).
Took it home and found it shorted, removed top cover and found the coil shorting to the top cover.
I fixed that, and got on 80 meters CW.
Made a contact with N2DXM in a nearby town and told him about my bad mfj tuna.
He kept responding that I was someone else, a friend of his. I had to call him on the phone to prove I was not his friend.
He went to the same fest, bought the same tuna, and had the same problem, then also got on 80 meters cw!

We were friends for a long time...went to many fests and bought boat anchors and home brewed stuff.
He is no longer active that I know of.

I have heard the same story in many places, you have to take anything of theirs apart and check it before use to be safe.
Loose parts, bad solder, etc.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on June 29, 2017, 01:45:28 PM
Brett, OK. As a former IBM Engineer, I don't really believe in "lemons", but certainly, your radio has issues.


Seriously?    No lemons? :-)

So you have never, ever [multiple choice]:

A.  Purchased an MFJ product

B.  Had a new item fail to work due to shock/vibration during shipping.

C.  Had a new item that simply did not work, since it was not tested.
    [Have you been in manufacturing during the last 10 years?  There is a new sickness, complete with text books,
     called "Statistical Quality Assurance" that the M.B.A.'s came up with to improve profit.  You stop testing each
     and every item you build.  You only test statistical samples.]

OK, so how about my average consumer experience with product lemons right out of the box;

1.  Comet H-422 antenna;   defective trap right out of the box.
2.  Comet CX-333 VHF/UHF antenna:   defective center radiator inside fiberglass dome.
3.  Brand new LMR-400UF jumper from Comm-Line Inc;    Shorted
4.  MFJ Switching Power Supply  "4230".   Dead as a brick.
5.  Handy Talkie, VHF/UHF, sent in for PCB exchange.
6.  MFJ-4422 30 amp current meter;  Don't get me started cussing.
7.  Brand New LDG AT1000 Pro II tuner and M-1000 meter;  upon opening box, meter movement was banging around inside chassis,
     fell out of mounting.
8.  Wavenode WN-2d digital power meter with 4 couplers;  HF-1 coupler defective, more than 20% out of calibration right out of box.
9.  MFJ-269C antenna analyzer;  Defective design for charging (sic) the battery pack, and wrongly designed knobs that split when you
     adjust the locking screws, which you need to remove in order to simply put the carry case onto or off the unit.
10.  ASTRON Power Supplies;   Did not bother to use locking output wiring bolts (keyed shafts), so that on EVERY single Astron
      I service, simply by attaching the wires and tightening the nuts, the output conductors inside the chassis end up rotating and
      shorting.   Or the fact that Astron only pays for Electrolytic filter capacitors that have a safe headroom of maybe 2 to 5 volts,
      so they blow up routinely.   Using large filter caps rated at only 20 volts on the pre-regulator 17 volt line.   I usually replace
      them with 30 volt electrolytics.

+  How about my Ford Explorer, that went back under warranty 7 times, to a total cost of over $5,000, for MFG defective
     wiring harness for the air-bag system they could not figure out.  [Yes, I am not exaggeration, in the end the factory had the
     dealer give me a loaner for 5 weeks while they completely took apart the new car and put an entire new chassis wiring
     harness from end to end.    No lemons.   Never :-)]

+  How about those "O" rings that blew up one of our space shuttles.  Or the faulty insulation that blew up the other one?

You are an engineer and have never experienced lemons?     There is junk everywhere.  You just have to be
that special unlucky customer.   In the global competitive "RACE TO THE BOTTOM", too many companies are getting
to be like MFJ, and cutting every single ounce of safety margin out of the parts, packaging, knobs, testing, etc.
I do honestly appreciate your optimism.    Please, no harm, no offense intended.
But I am still a working-stiff engineer at a large name brand manufacturer, and what I see
routinely makes me roll my eyes, say nasty things over lunch, and hold onto all packaging and paperwork
until I get past warranty period :-)

Cheers,

Neal
N6YFM

Neal, perhaps our definition of "lemons" differ.

I have seen many of your posts on eHam and certainly respect your opinion. Your streak of bad 'luck' reminds me of a buddy who was an Abrams Tanker during the Gulf Conflict. He said a "Tanker could break an anvil with a screwdriver".

I know who W. Edwards Deming was and also understand SPC, ISO 9XXX, etc.

BTW, I had to visit Morton Thiokol shortly after the Challenger disaster, to check on an unannounced color lazer  printer we produced. It was VERY somber experience. Were the O-rings a 'lemon'? Not in MHO. NASA was advised NOT to launch because it was too cold. Marginal design? Dunno.
Also, BTW, I know a little about O-rings since I serviced nuclear weapons in the Navy. But NO expert, for sure.

I also had 3 Ford Pintos. Never had one issue. Of course, I was never rear-ended either. This was back before cell phones and the current problem of texting.

I own dozens of MFJ products and NEVER, EVER, had ONE problem. LUCKY? I guess.
Most of the products I dealt with, came from several different Japanese vendors and they have their shi# together.
They should, we taught them!
I was one of the first to get a 7300 and as soon as a 'pre-order list' for the 7610 was announced, Ordered one of them also. Faith is a strong motivator. ha ha

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 29, 2017, 05:58:33 PM
Got home today and powered up the 7300, got 170 watts out, 100 watts carrier on AM.
Turned it off, then back on and was getting about 30 watts carrier, on and off a few times, stable, so I had a nice qso on 80 meters with the rig.
Carrier power got up to 40 watts and 100 watts pep which is great, but its only supposed to do 25 carrier....

I just wonder what would cause such erratic operation, how it can work fine then not after a power cycle.
Must be the firmware?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 30, 2017, 04:57:19 AM
Could not get it to fail last night, this morning I was back to being bad.
I just don't get such erratic operation...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on June 30, 2017, 08:00:16 AM
Could not get it to fail last night, this morning I was back to being bad.
I just don't get such erratic operation...


Maybe it's time to seek repair or replace.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on June 30, 2017, 08:50:28 AM
Could not get it to fail last night, this morning I was back to being bad.
I just don't get such erratic operation...


So why no video of the erratic operation?  I could log into this thread and say that my rig blew up and killed my dog, you could not dispute it.  It is so easy to say that your rig is messed up and It's not that I don't believe you but I and others have said you should record a video of the erratic operation to show the people at the store where you bought it.  I have never heard of any radio that puts out normal power on one day and excess power the next unless there is something very wrong with the ALC circuit. 

The ALC in the 7300 is very similar to the one used in a lot of Icom radios.  Since I have never heard of this problem in any other Icom rigs, or the internal tuner problem on any other Icom radio your's is unique.  Please record the anomalous behavior because it is beginning to sound like you are just wanting to bad mouth the IC-7300.  That or you really don't know what you are doing.   Gee, I hope it didn't kill your dog. ::) :o
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on June 30, 2017, 09:02:08 AM
So why no video of the erratic operation?

I was about to say this, and also what was said in the message before: 'Maybe it's time to seek repair or replace.'

I would not be surprised if Icom would really appreciate seeing this IC-7300.

If nothing else, instead of spending time here on eHam, I would be on my way to the nearest service center. The last thing you need, is to learn that the warranty has expired, and the defective board costs $1200 plus labor.  ;D

73 de Vince, VA3VF
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 30, 2017, 10:59:17 AM
I don't really have anything to make a video with, I might be able to do it with my flip phone, but have never done email on that.
I work full time and HRO is an hour or more away and only open during work hours, so I am going there tomorrow.
I may get there and it might be fine...which will be another 3 hours wasted.


I am not really worried about all that, just the failure mode.
That is what really bugs me, the fact I can not come up with a reasonable theory of why the problem comes and goes.

I know everyone makes cool video's with their smart phones and posts them on line, but I am resisting the whole smart phone distraction thing.
I am sticking with a basic flip phone, if someone needs to get a hold of me they can call me, otherwise I ignore it.

Maybe I should try and make a video tonight though, not that it proves anything, you can't see how everything is connected and prove the dummy load is good, the watt meter, etc.

If HRO gives me a hard time I will just not shop there anymore.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VE3WGO on June 30, 2017, 07:11:15 PM
The IC-7300 is rated at 21 Amps DC consumption at 100 Watts SSB output.  When it is putting out 170 Watts, the DC consumption surely rises by more than 100 Watts, maybe even 150 more watts, ie another 8 to 12 Amps at least. 

So... when the Wattmeter says you have 170 watts out, is the DC power supply current meter kicking up to 30 Amps or so? (give or take a bit...)

If not 30 Amps, the Wattmeter might just be having a bad day.....

If yes 30 Amps, then your rig is surely destined for a short life.

73, Ed VE3WGO
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 30, 2017, 07:24:23 PM
I think it gets up to about 26 amps per the meters.
The power meter in the radio and my power meter match closely.
Most times the radio does 150 watts on FM and pep on ssb.
On AM, it does 50 to 70 watts carrier, sometimes 100 watts.
The swr on the 7300 may read off the scale into the dummy load or antenna.
The swr, alc, current and power output meters may jump all around, the voltage is stable.
I made a video with my camera, its not very good at close ups...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VE3WGO on June 30, 2017, 07:33:21 PM
It sounds like you really should take it back to the shop for a checkup ASAP.  Too much current is going into the finals, so they're probably getting way too hot, and you know what effect that will have.  The more info you can take with you to the dealer, the better.  Your video of it will be very worthwhile.

73, Ed VE3WGO
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on June 30, 2017, 07:36:09 PM
https://photos.smugmug.com/Ham-radio/i-qs4MQqW/0/6030cfcf/640/P6300004-640.mp4
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on June 30, 2017, 07:58:12 PM

I made a video with my camera, its not very good at close ups...


The camera is good enough, but you are moving too fast from one place to the next. I was getting dizzy.  ;)

73 de Vince, VA3VF
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 01, 2017, 09:13:35 AM
Went to HRO, the radio acted fine (of course) when they tested it, but they gave me a new one.
Got it home and it works fine.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on July 01, 2017, 09:20:14 AM


I own dozens of MFJ products and NEVER, EVER, had ONE problem............

ron
N4UE

>..................
                  
                     (http://www.onetothree.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/bang.gif)

                                                                                                                                        ............... ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on July 01, 2017, 09:21:54 AM
Went to HRO, the radio acted fine (of course) when they tested it, but they gave me a new one.
Got it home and it works fine.


Excellent, have fun!

73 de Vince, VA3VF
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on July 01, 2017, 10:29:51 AM
Went to HRO, the radio acted fine (of course) when they tested it, but they gave me a new one.
Got it home and it works fine.


Glad to hear it Brett.
Let us know how this one acts at your QTH. Your comments about swr and power out 'jumping around' doesn't sound right.
Time will tell.

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 01, 2017, 08:17:39 PM
Used it a bit today, works great, no issues at all.
I just got done a nice long qso  on 80 meters, 25 watts of AM and everyone heard me fine.

The failure mode on the other radio is going to bug me not knowing what caused it.

Fun radio though, well thought out, well working. Like a much better working 756 pro series radio.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W1BG on July 01, 2017, 08:44:09 PM
Offhand I remember you saying that they gave you a significant discount on the original one.  Was it possibly a customer return?  My reason for mentioning is there is a really stupid hack out there posted on Mods.dk for modifying the ALC circuit for just that purpose (addt'l power out). The result causes the rig to flat-top badly which of course makes an RMS wattmeter suddenly behave like a peak-reading one. Anyhow glad to hear that they exchanged it for you.  I've dealt with HRO for several years and never had a single issue with them.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 01, 2017, 09:00:58 PM
It was new in an unopened box.
They told me the radio was $1340.00 when I called and asked if they had it in stock, but they had some in store discount when I picked it up.

I have seen the alc time constant change, I don't think it makes the rig flat top in normal use, just makes the alc a bit less aggressive.
I do not really operate ssb though so I do not care, and whats 10 or 15 more watts pep anyway...
The alc is aggressive on AM as well, but it works differently and at least it does not hose up the carrier like past Icoms did.
I can not get the 7300 to overmodulate on AM which is great, but the pep power is not the usual 4X carrier, its more like 2X (50% positive) per the scope.
It gets close to 100% negative, very close.
With a TONE it will do 4X, really quick acting peak detecting power output control setup they seem to have.

I think Kenwood is the only company that gets AM right. Their radios look like VCR's though...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on July 02, 2017, 05:15:54 AM
It was new in an unopened box.
They told me the radio was $1340.00 when I called and asked if they had it in stock, but they had some in store discount when I picked it up.

I have seen the alc time constant change, I don't think it makes the rig flat top in normal use, just makes the alc a bit less aggressive.
I do not really operate ssb though so I do not care, and whats 10 or 15 more watts pep anyway...
The alc is aggressive on AM as well, but it works differently and at least it does not hose up the carrier like past Icoms did.
I can not get the 7300 to overmodulate on AM which is great, but the pep power is not the usual 4X carrier, its more like 2X (50% positive) per the scope.
It gets close to 100% negative, very close.
With a TONE it will do 4X, really quick acting peak detecting power output control setup they seem to have.

I think Kenwood is the only company that gets AM right. Their radios look like VCR's...


......as opposed to others that look like TV-radios.........

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VE3WGO on July 02, 2017, 07:05:15 AM
Yea, maybe the latest radios are looking a lot like PCs or TVs or radar sets, but they do show us where the signals are. 

And... in a completely non-software-automated way, we have to use our own eyeballs to interpret those fancy waterfall displays, so that should be some consolation to those of us who want to keep station control as "human" as possible.

73, Ed VE3WGO
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 02, 2017, 09:16:27 AM
Yea, maybe the latest radios are looking a lot like PCs or TVs or radar sets, but they do show us where the signals are. 

And... in a completely non-software-automated way, we have to use our own eyeballs to interpret those fancy waterfall displays, so that should be some consolation to those of us who want to keep station control as "human" as possible.

73, Ed VE3WGO

For digital modes the display is a necessity since many digital signals are too close to the noise floor to be heard but they can be seen on the waterfall.  I don't really use the display for anything other than RTTY, PSK, and WSJT.  I don't find it useful for CW or phone since I don't need a panadaptor to tell me where the signals are, all I need are my ears. 

Still, my new radios offer a lot of really nice features that I could not have even imagined 50 years ago.  I remember my first all solid state radio and I thought it was amazing because for the first time I could QSY without retuning the finals.  I like new technology and I use to the extent that it serves my purpose.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on July 02, 2017, 11:38:18 AM

For digital modes the display is a necessity since many digital signals are too close to the noise floor to be heard but they can be seen on the waterfall.  I don't really use the display for anything other than RTTY, PSK, and WSJT.  I don't find it useful for CW or phone since I don't need a panadaptor to tell me where the signals are, all I need are my ears. 

To the contrary, if you're operating unassisted, search and pounce in a contest, especially with one of less participation, the scope/waterfall is an essential tool for efficiency. So much so, that the principals in the popular N1MM+ contest program have incorporated the 7300 spectrum display as an additional window. This lets you use shift+up/down to quickly jump from waterfall signal to signal, eliminating manual tuning between each signal.

In this past Saturday's RAC Canada Day contest, with poor propagation and signals far apart, even manual tuning CW and SSB signals quickly between waterfall traces saved me a lot of unnecessary time just listening with my ears. How useful a feature is depends on your operating needs and preferences.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 02, 2017, 06:04:30 PM
I find it great that I can spot slow CW at a glance and tune it in with a click using the panadaptor.
You can SEE all the speed of the cw signals on the band at once.

I like the look of the Icom's, and most of the Yeasu's look ok, but the Kenwoods look very plain.
They seem to sound great though...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on July 02, 2017, 06:44:53 PM
I find it great that I can spot slow CW at a glance and tune it in with a click using the panadaptor.
You can SEE all the speed of the cw signals on the band at once.

I like the look of the Icom's, and most of the Yeasu's look ok, but the Kenwoods look very plain.
They seem to sound great though...

I don't have a panadaptor working with my transceiver, but I do have a cheap SDR receiver, and it's nice to see the entire 'neighbourhood' in one screen.

The beauty of having options/choices...As far as looks only go, I find Yaesu's ugly as sin. The Kenwood's plain, but functional. I'm still undecided on the Icom's look.  ;)

But since looks won't bring me the next ATNO, it is not a factor.  :)

73 de Vince, VA3VF
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VE3WGO on July 02, 2017, 07:05:34 PM
I tried out an IC-7300 at the Radioworld in Toronto, and I like it a lot.  It feels right, and looks good too.  I'm thinking it would be ideal for portable setups.

As far as awful looking radios go, I have to say my TS-2000 wins that award hands down.

73, Ed VE3WGO
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 02, 2017, 08:09:21 PM

For digital modes the display is a necessity since many digital signals are too close to the noise floor to be heard but they can be seen on the waterfall.  I don't really use the display for anything other than RTTY, PSK, and WSJT.  I don't find it useful for CW or phone since I don't need a panadaptor to tell me where the signals are, all I need are my ears. 

To the contrary, if you're operating unassisted, search and pounce in a contest, especially with one of less participation, the scope/waterfall is an essential tool for efficiency. So much so, that the principals in the popular N1MM+ contest program have incorporated the 7300 spectrum display as an additional window. This lets you use shift+up/down to quickly jump from waterfall signal to signal, eliminating manual tuning between each signal.

In this past Saturday's RAC Canada Day contest, with poor propagation and signals far apart, even manual tuning CW and SSB signals quickly between waterfall traces saved me a lot of unnecessary time just listening with my ears. How useful a feature is depends on your operating needs and preferences.

I'm not a contester so have no need for it.  I'm glad that it works for you.  I do have click and pounce using a mouse on my IC-7600 although I have only used it twice just to play around with it.  I'm old school and strictly a casual operator.  Back when I was into contesting I had a loaded B Line (still have it minus the amp) and it was an effective contest station at the time.  I also used a Yaesu FT-902DM with an outboard VFO and an Alpha 77sx.  You need a good set of ears more than anything else to be an effective CW contester.  The point is that I came up in a time when we didn't need a spectrum analyzer to be an effective contest station.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on July 02, 2017, 08:58:58 PM
The point is that I came up in a time when we didn't need a spectrum analyzer to be an effective contest station.

True, but contesting has changed a lot over the years. The hard core contester, if allowed by the rules, will use anything that could improve their performance. Will a panadaptor do that? No idea, time will tell.

73 de Vince, VA3VF
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on July 02, 2017, 10:53:34 PM
The point is that I came up in a time when we didn't need a spectrum analyzer to be an effective contest station.

True, but contesting has changed a lot over the years. The hard core contester, if allowed by the rules, will use anything that could improve their performance...........

73 de Vince, VA3VF

Yeah, apart from flexing the credit card, the equipment/software is the increasingly bigger part of the equation - the operator does less/is becoming more or less a token gesture.......a sort of passenger.  :-\

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on July 02, 2017, 11:26:51 PM

Something about this seeing/looking at radio signals blight that is not quite in the spirit of radio........especially when the seeing/looking is seemingly becoming the go-to or primary function/activity.

Oh dear.........  :)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 03, 2017, 05:10:40 AM
I hate operating without it any more.
I first had it on the icom 756 pro I think, and although that setup did not work very well, it was still useful.
Next up was an SDR-IQ which worked with at least 3 programs I had, great very detailed 190 KHz of spectrum if you wanted it that wide.
Great audio, lots of options and filters, very accurate signal measurements.

Is it a good thing? I have no idea, but I enjoy it.
Maybe the same was said when tubes came out, or transistors, or how about those hams that don't make their own parts?
People used to make their own batteries, and resistors, and capacitors, and coils, and they likely thought things were going to pot when you could just BUY all the parts for a nice station!

I do not contest, and think its CRAZY all the programs and things people use for that and DX, guess a guy with a radio does not stand a chance against someone with all the stuff you CAN use....
Its progress, often older people don't like it and fondly remember when they walked to school barefoot in the snow up hill both ways, in the days before school buses.
Less 'real' men and women around, but much less frostbite as well!

My new 7300 is working great, making many contacts with it.
Bought an Alpha Delta dx lb antenna and I am going to add legs for 20 and 10 meters, and maybe try adding 6 meters also.
That antenna should suit the 7300 very well, most places the swr is low enough to use the built in tuna in the 7300.
Its a good lower power antenna that will fit in my space. Its poor on 160, not fantastic on 80, and good on the other bands as its a full size antenna.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 03, 2017, 07:01:23 AM
I forgot to say, I looked at the AM modulation on the REA modulation monitor which is digital, and the very short duration peaks were hitting very close to 100% positive modulation, while the peak reading watt meter was not showing them.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on July 03, 2017, 07:24:22 AM
I forgot to say, I looked at the AM modulation on the REA modulation monitor which is digital, and the very short duration peaks were hitting very close to 100% positive modulation, while the peak reading watt meter was not showing them.

Interesting to hear it's still there. This 'anomaly' was detected very early on. Check the IC-7300 Yahoogroups archive for the discussion.

73 de Vince, VA3VF
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 03, 2017, 07:54:09 AM
That is the way it should work on AM.
If they wanted to be fancy they could put in a look ahead compressor, and a multi (3) band compressor.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on July 03, 2017, 08:10:32 AM
That is the way it should work on AM.
If they wanted to be fancy they could put in a look ahead compressor, and a multi (3) band compressor.


Oh sorry... I was thinking the spike that drove some linear amplifiers crazy.

73 de Vince, VA3VF
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on July 03, 2017, 09:45:35 AM

Its progress, often older people don't like it and fondly remember when they walked to school barefoot in the snow up hill both ways, in the days before school buses.
Less 'real' men and women around, but much less frostbite as well!


You may jest.........you have a country (& I don't exclude my own) full of ever younger inactive big fat lazy lumps - an obesity epidemic with serious costly health issues coming down the line.

Many will be wishing they did it the old way and walked/cycled to school.

Wait for old becoming the new new.  ;)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on July 03, 2017, 11:21:46 AM
Got home today and powered up the 7300, got 170 watts out, 100 watts carrier on AM.
Turned it off, then back on and was getting about 30 watts carrier, on and off a few times, stable, so I had a nice qso on 80 meters with the rig.
Carrier power got up to 40 watts and 100 watts pep which is great, but its only supposed to do 25 carrier....

I just wonder what would cause such erratic operation, how it can work fine then not after a power cycle.
Must be the firmware?


Interesting.
HOW MANY 7300 OWNERS HAVE CHECKED MAX OUTPUT WITH A HIGH QUALITY METER?

This has peaked my curiosity.  I purchased a high end meter this week for my shop,
PrecisionRF DPM-6000 with internal calibration reference, and found my Icom 7300 putting
out 117 watts into a precision Narda Attenuator, or 124 watts into an HF coupler (+/-5%).
My consumer grade meters, including an analog Daiwa, read closer to 100 watts.
So now my chess game is to figure out if the new high meter really IS calibrated,
and/or can an IC-7300 really put out over 100 watts?

How many of you 7300 owners have checked the max output with a calibrated precision power meter?
I found that AB4OJ used a lab grade thermister based power meter and got a max of 115 watts.

Any of you?   This is curious.

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 03, 2017, 11:37:10 AM
My new radio seems to put out a bit more then 100 watts, but my meters are suspect.
The big problem with the original radio was the power output was unstable and had a crackling noise in the TX audio.
It might work great all day, and then put out 150 watts and not have the antenna tuner work the next day.
I took the covers off and made sure all the cables and connectors were seated, tapped things while in operation, turned the thing on and off a hundred times, and it always seemed like it was fine today, all day, and bad tomorrow, all day.
Figure THAT one out!
I think a 100 watt radio should put out 110 watts, headroom.
I once had a radio shack PA amplifier rated at 100 watts.
Tested into a load it did 70 watts before clipping.
The 100 watt SAE amplifier did 150 watts before clipping....

Power output will vary per band I would think...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 04, 2017, 07:50:35 AM
My new radio seems to put out a bit more then 100 watts, but my meters are suspect.
The big problem with the original radio was the power output was unstable and had a crackling noise in the TX audio.
It might work great all day, and then put out 150 watts and not have the antenna tuner work the next day.
I took the covers off and made sure all the cables and connectors were seated, tapped things while in operation, turned the thing on and off a hundred times, and it always seemed like it was fine today, all day, and bad tomorrow, all day.
Figure THAT one out!
I think a 100 watt radio should put out 110 watts, headroom.
I once had a radio shack PA amplifier rated at 100 watts.
Tested into a load it did 70 watts before clipping.
The 100 watt SAE amplifier did 150 watts before clipping....

Power output will vary per band I would think...


I think a 100 watt radio should put out 90 watts, the finals will last forever that way.  There is no difference in received signal strength between 90 watts and 130 watts anyway so putting out more power is pointless unless you are willing to go to at least 400 watts.  That should make a one S unit difference.

If the ALC is properly designed, and I am certain that it is, the power out will be the same on all bands.  Old hybrid rigs dropped off a bit on the upper bands when the output tubes started to get a little weak but solid state radios don't do that unless they are really old.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 04, 2017, 03:11:03 PM
What I meant was a 100 radio should put out 110 watts and be built to handle 200 watts.
That is how I build my transmitters.
My pair of 813 rig has been trouble free for the last 35 years.

In stock form, the 7300 seems to run nice and cool...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 04, 2017, 08:38:47 PM
What I meant was a 100 radio should put out 110 watts and be built to handle 200 watts.
That is how I build my transmitters.
My pair of 813 rig has been trouble free for the last 35 years.

In stock form, the 7300 seems to run nice and cool...
I see, and how do you design you FET transmitters?  I mean I build a rig 40 years ago with an 807 driving a pair of 811's.  I have no doubt that if I still had it, it would be trouble free.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 05, 2017, 05:11:54 AM
If I built one, I suppose it would be built for twice the power I was going to use it at.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on July 05, 2017, 08:35:07 AM
If I built one, I suppose it would be built for twice the power I was going to use it at.


When I worked at Harris we designed SS power amps with a 25% overhead.  The ALC and return loss fold back circuits would never let them go beyond the specified power in the design specs.  Of course with tube amps grid current becomes an issue but there is really no way to compare solid state amps to tube amps. 

The output section in the IC-7300 is a proven design but component failures and faulty circuit boards can happen although it is rare in modern radios.  All of the failures I have seen in solid state power amps have been immediate. Intermittent anomalies in power were always due to a failure in a preceding stage or in a combiner ahead of the amp causing it to fold back.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 18, 2017, 08:07:36 AM
Been having fun with this radio.
I put up an all band fan dipole that I have yet to clean up and tune, but it works well with the little icom.
Had a nice series of qso's on 20 meters last night and the 7300 performs very well indeed.

I enjoy the very fast boot up time, its a lot faster then the old pro series radios were.
About 3 seconds?
Maybe less.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on July 18, 2017, 09:36:56 AM
Hi, yes it is fast. I have the 756PRO I purchased in Tokyo, the week it was announced. Still a great radio.
I've added the FA-AS to the 7300 and it's boot up time is as long as the PRO. It's still a great addition to the 7300.

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 18, 2017, 11:49:20 AM
What is the FA-AS?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on July 18, 2017, 12:50:58 PM
It's a German automatic antenna switch, designed for the 7300. It is the same width as the 7300 and about 1 1/2" tall. Perfect match.
It allows 4 different antennas and a transverter. Uses radios power and band data.
One port on mine is for HF and one for 6M. When I select a band, the antenna is instantly transferred.
It's a kit but no SMD. Quality is awesome.

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6JH on July 18, 2017, 05:28:21 PM
I believe the FA-AS kit can also be programmed to use one of the 4 antenna jacks for RX ANT purposes. You plug it in to the 7300 accessory connector as well as CI-V.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on July 18, 2017, 05:36:20 PM
That sounds handy.
I found going through my home made antenna selector/tr relay/rf sampler changes the swr a lot on the upper bands.
I bypassed all that and plugged the fan dipole into the 7300 and made my first ever 6 meter contacts.

I measured the swr on all the bands and found big differences on the higher bands....
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on August 12, 2017, 06:56:28 PM
Traded the 7300 for an Anan 100B.
Much better radio as long as you don't mind having a computer to run it.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on August 13, 2017, 02:24:25 PM
Traded the 7300 for an Anan 100B.
Much better radio as long as you don't mind having a computer to run it.


No argument, but is USA service available if the Anan hardware goes punt?
Just curious.   

And yes, unfair comparison, the IC-7300 is designed as an entry level price-band
stand-alone knobbed radio, and the Anan 100B is designed as a computer-tethered
higher-than-entry-level SDR radio with higher end feature set.

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on August 13, 2017, 06:58:30 PM
There is repair service in the US.
I doubt I would ever use it though, I have never had anyone repair anything of mine.
(Cars, motorcycles, appliances, electronics, etc.)

Yes, different radios, but as far as performance and flexability goes, nothing tops the software for the Anan radios.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on August 24, 2017, 07:56:48 PM
Trading to get the 7300 back.
I miss it for some reason.
The ease of use, or just the way you operate the radio is fun in itself.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on August 25, 2017, 06:43:41 AM

Traded the 7300 for an Anan 100B.
Much better radio............




Trading to get the 7300 back.............


   (https://68.media.tumblr.com/59343cc23e51a2c0157bd68780dec010/tumblr_ns0nb52opo1sx92edo1_400.gif)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on August 25, 2017, 03:08:21 PM
Trading to get the 7300 back.
I miss it for some reason.
The ease of use, or just the way you operate the radio is fun in itself.

For an entry level radio, I find it VERY good.
While running FT8, a not yet mature experimental digital mode, I like to drive the 7300
in manual mode;   I turn off AGC, ride the RF gain in real-time during receive, use
the twin-pbt while watching the WSJT-X spectrum display and cut the JT-65 stuff
off above 2,000hz that starts messing with my receive sensitivity, and then for the
LIDS who don't understand FT8 yet and start pumping silly amounts of power, splattering
my waterfall, I turn on the IC-7300 manual narrow notch filter.   While watching the waterfall,
I turn the knob and place the notch right over the LID, boom, gone.  Then I can turn back UP
my RF gain a little, and drag the desired FT8 signal out of the mud.

The 7300 is a pleasure to operate.   Unlike my Yaesu FT-DX3000, I don't need to dive deep into
menus and take a lot of time.   All this happens with a few touches or turns of knobs.
Fast, efficient, good visual feedback.   I love it.

Also note, my Yaesu FT-DX3000 only handles about 2400 hz in digital mode on the receive passband,
and even then, NOT in flat linear response, but with significant roll-off.   Contrast that with the
little entry level IC-7300 that has a flat-as-a-table receive passband all the way out to 3600hz
for my digital modes.   It's really a great value for an "entry level radio".

Cheers,

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on August 26, 2017, 08:43:19 AM
I just received an email newsletter from Elecraft, with a comparison chart between the K3S and the IC-7300, along with a dissertation about the inherent problems with SDR radios and strong adjacent signals. The 7300 must really be cutting into their sales for them to post this on their website (chart also shows there).

While the K3S is a great radio, along with OPTIONS like the P3 panadapter, auto tuner, digital voice recorder, filters, second receiver, etc, that bring the price up to nearly $6,000 (in one of their "packages"), why stoop to compare it with a $1,250 (at HRO) radio? The 7300 is still 10 spots below the K3S in Sherwood's chart.

 I own a 7300 and really like it, but IMO, Elecraft should let its radio stand on its own merits, at that elevated price point. No comparison needed.

73, Bob K7JQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on August 26, 2017, 09:36:09 AM
I just received an email newsletter from Elecraft, with a comparison chart between the K3S and the IC-7300, along with a dissertation about the inherent problems with SDR radios and strong adjacent signals. The 7300 must really be cutting into their sales for them to post this on their website (chart also shows there).

While the K3S is a great radio, along with OPTIONS like the P3 panadapter, auto tuner, digital voice recorder, filters, second receiver, etc, that bring the price up to nearly $6,000 (in one of their "packages"), why stoop to compare it with a $1,250 (at HRO) radio? The 7300 is still 10 spots below the K3S in Sherwood's chart.

 I own a 7300 and really like it, but IMO, Elecraft should let its radio stand on its own merits, at that elevated price point. No comparison needed.

73, Bob K7JQ

That is Crazy isn't it.  comparing to an entry level radio at a fraction of the price. The 7300 is killing all the competitors.  And the number of them on the air is astounding. I have never seen an entry level radio gain such acceptance in such a short time.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on August 26, 2017, 10:09:13 AM
That is Crazy isn't it.  comparing to an entry level radio at a fraction of the price. The 7300 is killing all the competitors.  And the number of them on the air is astounding. I have never seen an entry level radio gain such acceptance in such a short time.

You guys are making me reconsider the decision to go with a TS-590SG. I missed last month's 590's sale by a day or two. The local ham shop currently has a half decent price on the 7300, good until Aug 31.

Decisions.  ;D ;D ;D

Nah...I think I'll stay with the 590.   ;)

But the 7300 seems to be still causing after shocks, after the big earthquake, when it was released.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on August 26, 2017, 10:20:51 AM
That is Crazy isn't it.  comparing to an entry level radio at a fraction of the price. The 7300 is killing all the competitors.  And the number of them on the air is astounding. I have never seen an entry level radio gain such acceptance in such a short time.

You guys are making me reconsider the decision to go with a TS-590SG. I missed last month's 590's sale by a day or two. The local ham shop currently has a half decent price on the 7300, good until Aug 31.

Decisions.  ;D ;D ;D

Nah...I think I'll stay with the 590.   ;)

But the 7300 seems to be still causing after shocks, after the big earthquake, when it was released.



The 590 is a good radio and the 7300 is a good radio..  I will tell you this, if you do decide to take the 7300 plunge, you will not be disappointed.  I got one to replace my FT450 and my Icom 756pro3 was to remain my main rig in the shack.   I will tell you this, I don't even bother turning on my 756pro3 any more.  I was surprised at how well the 7300 works, and how enjoyable it is to operate.  I know, I sound like a "paid political announcement", but I really like this thing.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on August 26, 2017, 10:26:34 AM
The 590 is a good radio and the 7300 is a good radio..  I will tell you this, if you do decide to take the 7300 plunge, you will not be disappointed.  I got one to replace my FT450 and my Icom 756pro3 was to remain my main rig in the shack.   I will tell you this, I don't even bother turning on my 756pro3 any more.  I was surprised at how well the 7300 works, and how enjoyable it is to operate.  I know, I sound like a "paid political announcement", but I really like this thing.

The ideal would be to have one of each. Most hams I know, have at least two transceivers on their desks. I should join the 2 transceivers club.  ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on August 26, 2017, 11:57:53 AM
The 590 is a good radio and the 7300 is a good radio..  I will tell you this, if you do decide to take the 7300 plunge, you will not be disappointed.  I got one to replace my FT450 and my Icom 756pro3 was to remain my main rig in the shack.   I will tell you this, I don't even bother turning on my 756pro3 any more.  I was surprised at how well the 7300 works, and how enjoyable it is to operate.  I know, I sound like a "paid political announcement", but I really like this thing.

The ideal would be to have one of each. Most hams I know, have at least two transceivers on their desks. I should join the 2 transceivers club.  ;D

They are.. you can monitor for a 6 meter opening with one, and work some other band with the other, as long you have antennas for each. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W1BG on August 26, 2017, 03:14:54 PM
That is Crazy isn't it.  comparing to an entry level radio at a fraction of the price. The 7300 is killing all the competitors.  And the number of them on the air is astounding. I have never seen an entry level radio gain such acceptance in such a short time.

You guys are making me reconsider the decision to go with a TS-590SG. I missed last month's 590's sale by a day or two. The local ham shop currently has a half decent price on the 7300, good until Aug 31.

Decisions.  ;D ;D ;D

Nah...I think I'll stay with the 590.   ;)

I will tell you this;  After playing with a 7300 for all of about 5 minutes I traded my 590(sg) for one and honestly haven't looked back.  The 590(sg) had that great parametric EQ but the 7300's TX audio, even with the factory HM219 mic, is so incredibly good that you don't miss your 590.  Man, I'm sold.


Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on August 26, 2017, 04:53:47 PM
I always liked the look of Icom radios, and how easy they were to use, but the 7300 takes it to another level for such a low price.
I had no issues with the performance of the radio at all, its got preamps, an attenuator and RF gain control, something not all sdr's have.
It has low phase noise.
It has a small footprint in the shack, its instant on, its quiet and seems to run cool.

It sounds good (to me), and it seems to be fun to use, just in how you manipulate the radio seem to make it fun.
I have tried a bunch of new radios lately. and the only one I really miss is the 7300 so I am trading back.

I also liked the KX2 a lot, but its more limited with 10 watts out and no 6 meters.
I made contacts on 10 and 6 for the first time on my 7300...

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on August 26, 2017, 07:09:52 PM
I just received an email newsletter from Elecraft, with a comparison chart between the K3S and the IC-7300, along with a dissertation about the inherent problems with SDR radios and strong adjacent signals. The 7300 must really be cutting into their sales for them to post this on their website (chart also shows there).

While the K3S is a great radio, along with OPTIONS like the P3 panadapter, auto tuner, digital voice recorder, filters, second receiver, etc, that bring the price up to nearly $6,000 (in one of their "packages"), why stoop to compare it with a $1,250 (at HRO) radio? The 7300 is still 10 spots below the K3S in Sherwood's chart.

 I own a 7300 and really like it, but IMO, Elecraft should let its radio stand on its own merits, at that elevated price point. No comparison needed.

73, Bob K7JQ

That is Crazy isn't it.  comparing to an entry level radio at a fraction of the price. The 7300 is killing all the competitors.  And the number of them on the air is astounding. I have never seen an entry level radio gain such acceptance in such a short time.


Most likely, most hams will not discern or benefit from the difference in performance, so therefore it is moot. A small segment of hams will benefit from the improved performance of the KX3 over the IC7300, all while making contacts with mostly other hams running much lower performance gear, according to Sherwood.

Who wins at this game?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on August 26, 2017, 07:33:49 PM
I just received an email newsletter from Elecraft, with a comparison chart between the K3S and the IC-7300, along with a dissertation about the inherent problems with SDR radios and strong adjacent signals. The 7300 must really be cutting into their sales for them to post this on their website (chart also shows there).

While the K3S is a great radio, along with OPTIONS like the P3 panadapter, auto tuner, digital voice recorder, filters, second receiver, etc, that bring the price up to nearly $6,000 (in one of their "packages"), why stoop to compare it with a $1,250 (at HRO) radio? The 7300 is still 10 spots below the K3S in Sherwood's chart.

 I own a 7300 and really like it, but IMO, Elecraft should let its radio stand on its own merits, at that elevated price point. No comparison needed.

73, Bob K7JQ

That is Crazy isn't it.  comparing to an entry level radio at a fraction of the price. The 7300 is killing all the competitors.  And the number of them on the air is astounding. I have never seen an entry level radio gain such acceptance in such a short time.


Most likely, most hams will not discern or benefit from the difference in performance, so therefore it is moot. A small segment of hams will benefit from the improved performance of the KX3 over the IC7300, all while making contacts with mostly other hams running much lower performance gear, according to Sherwood.

Who wins at this game?

Who wins?  The guy selling a pretty cool flashy looking rig at 1/5 the price.  Who is scared?  The guys selling the high dollar higher performance rigs.  They will always have a following, but yes they are scared "witless"
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on August 26, 2017, 07:39:39 PM
Who wins at this game?

Joe Ham, if he can keep his cool.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on August 26, 2017, 07:53:38 PM
Who wins at this game?

Joe Ham, if he can keep his cool.

Yes sir!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6AER on August 30, 2017, 10:46:33 AM
i BOUGHT THE 7300 TO REPLACE MY AIGING 7600









I bought the 7600 to replace my aging 7600 and have not looked back. the little radio is amazing. I am now buying a second radio for field work.

The KX-3 has a bit more dynamic range but that is only in a lab environment. Once you connect the radios to a -110 dBm noise floor coming out of your coax the radios are the same.

The built in spectrum analyzer and water fall display is very useful. Radio is easy to navigate and performs very well.







Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on August 31, 2017, 12:32:51 AM
i BOUGHT THE 7300 TO REPLACE MY AIGING 7600

Can understand that......false economy these cheap Aiging rigs from China.  

Next thing you know Aiging will be bringing out a 7610   ;D.........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC4ZGP on August 31, 2017, 09:39:40 AM

What is aiging?

And I see another ICOM 7300 made it to Universal Radio's used list. Second one in as many weeks.

Hmmm...

Kraus
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on August 31, 2017, 05:59:32 PM

What is aiging?

And I see another ICOM 7300 made it to Universal Radio's used list. Second one in as many weeks.

Hmmm...

Kraus

In a Ham Universe of well over 700,000 U.S. licensees, two radios "made it to a used list"...  Really? We need to be on lookout for FAIL on this?

Time for OCD posters to get a grip on reality. The ham market doesn't rotate around your very shortsighted, self absorbed reality.... There is a world out here, outside of your brain.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC4ZGP on August 31, 2017, 06:38:13 PM
K5TED,

When someone wants a new car, they go to the junkyard to see what made it to their early graves.

There you go. And quit being so angry. Settle down. You'll die young of stroke.

Kraus
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VE3WGO on August 31, 2017, 06:59:27 PM
When I want to buy a new car, or radio, or computer, etc, I talk to the shop service folks to see what brands and models they have in for repairs most often, and which ones have the least problems.  Has been a good strategy for me so far....

I am waiting for the SDR version of a 160m-70cm shack-in-a-box that can also do full-duplex for satellites.


... even "aiging" hams need to be replaced eventually.  especially when the spell-checker doesn't catch our spleling misakes.   ::)

73, Ed VE3WGO
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on August 31, 2017, 07:58:16 PM
Ah yes... the FT-849...

Never happen..
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on August 31, 2017, 08:01:39 PM
K5TED,

When someone wants a new car, they go to the junkyard to see what made it to their early graves.

There you go. And quit being so angry. Settle down. You'll die young of stroke.

Kraus

You do realize how insignificant two devices making it to the same used sale list in two weeks in the consumer electronics category really is, no?

Your assertion is failed. Settle down. You'll be ridiculed for the remainder of your life for your weird assertions, even if you don't understand why..
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on August 31, 2017, 10:34:35 PM
"Really" there has been loads of 7300s on the s/h market over here from as soon as it went on the market....."really" "really."

Have seen them as low as around £700 albeit the flurry of used units on the market seems to have settled down a bit lately.

Those that try (in their state of self denial) to make out it is only a couple here or there may be "ridiculed for the remainder of your life for your weird assertions, even if you don't understand why.."       :)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on August 31, 2017, 10:50:48 PM

What is aiging?

And I see another ICOM 7300 made it to Universal Radio's used list. Second one in as many weeks.

Hmmm...

Kraus

.... There is a world out here, outside of your brain.



             (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e8/93/11/e89311fa5c4e1ae5ad2a46aaca308181--memes.jpg)

......yeah, and many of the would-be accusers apparently stuck in one of "fishfinder" radios.  ;)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC4ZGP on September 01, 2017, 05:29:49 AM

Hey FLQ,

Are you making fun of me? You're pretty good at it if you are. I'm confused. Well that isn't hard to do Kraus.

Have a safe weekend. Say hey to the family.

Kraus
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 01, 2017, 06:33:04 AM

Hey FLQ,

Are you making fun of me? You're pretty good at it if you are. I'm confused. Well that isn't hard to do Kraus.

Have a safe weekend. Say hey to the family.

Kraus

Absolutely not, to the contrary.........'twas directed at K5TED - he was telling you   ".... There is a world out here, outside of your brain."

Thought it worth pointing out (to ready steady Teddy with vanity call  ::) ) the irony of it coming from one of the many seemingly stuck in their "fishfinder" radio world.

There we go............and hello to yours & you have a good one too.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VE3WGO on September 01, 2017, 06:58:38 AM
all those second hand 7300's seem to indicate that even though the big screen can be pretty and even useful, hams still often prefer lots of knobs after all.  Even Flex knows this now with their recent Maestro and their knobby new "-M" models coming out.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N0YXB on September 01, 2017, 09:02:57 AM
Or second hand 7300s could mean the owners want to try something else, and were not even thinking about knobs...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC4ZGP on September 01, 2017, 09:20:09 AM
FLQ,

I knew that, I knew that. ya, ya, I knew that. That's the ticket.

K0UA got his FT-891. He put up a picture. It's a tad thicker than his index finger.

It's small Barney, it's small!

I have to have one. No, I have to have two. It's such a cutie.

Who needs an amplifier. Just get a bunch of FT-891. Connect their outputs to a power combiner.

Wire the inputs parallel and viola! A 'many more than 100 watts' unit.

Don't say it's a good idea. It won't work.

Kraus




Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 01, 2017, 11:27:40 AM
My 7300 decided to lock up.
The screen and controls act like the lock is on but its not.
Reboot, nothing works, radio stuck on 14.100 usb.
This is the 2nd one with issues.....

Off to warranty repair...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N9AOP on September 01, 2017, 12:39:30 PM
There are hams that belong to the 'radio of the month' club so it is not surprising to find pre-owned 7300's out there.
Art
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N0YXB on September 01, 2017, 05:32:44 PM
Very true.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.  :D

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N0YXB on September 01, 2017, 05:35:31 PM

This is the 2nd one with issues.....

Off to warranty repair...

Ouch, good luck with that.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 01, 2017, 06:33:27 PM
Its fun trying new radios, or even old radios.
Its even more fun when they work.

I have had the Elad fdm duo, (neat but limited), the KX2 (loved it, will get another some time), kx3 (not so much as the kx2), the anan 10E (nice), the anan 100b (nicer but blew up the TX part), and the 7300 (nice if you can get one that works).

I really liked the KX2, but 10 watts is limiting, that is about 2 watts of AM which is not much.

Loads of old radios in the past, the flex radios, Icoms, old Ten Tec rigs, liked the argonaut 5.

Of all the radios, I would keep the 7300 and the KX2.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KF7DS on September 01, 2017, 11:07:27 PM
I have the 7300 fish finder and like it but I use my 7200 just as much...it's a terrific radio for the CW op.

Don
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 02, 2017, 12:13:25 AM
My 7300 decided to lock up.
The screen and controls act like the lock is on but its not.
Reboot, nothing works, radio stuck on 14.100 usb.
This is the 2nd one with issues.....

Off to warranty repair...

             (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GM3L8oaK9A4/UFX1Fzt7o5I/AAAAAAAAC_4/e_mgMzCMtBY/s320/cowboy-shaking-head.gif)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 02, 2017, 12:19:11 AM
Its fun trying new radios, or even old radios.
Its even more fun when they work.

I have had the Elad fdm duo, (neat but limited), the KX2 (loved it, will get another some time), kx3 (not so much as the kx2), the anan 10E (nice), the anan 100b (nicer but blew up the TX part), and the 7300 (nice if you can get one that works).

I really liked the KX2, but 10 watts is limiting, that is about 2 watts of AM which is not much.

Loads of old radios in the past, the flex radios, Icoms, old Ten Tec rigs, liked the argonaut 5.

Of all the radios, I would keep the 7300........



........because I like sending them off to warranty repair......... :o...........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 02, 2017, 12:54:34 AM
Very true.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.  :D



That is of course, if you are in the camp where they are completely unaware that it's the fools that have the tendency to "rush in"   ::) ........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on September 02, 2017, 09:29:22 AM
Check out the Icom IC-9700 on YouTube,
Probably make FLQ give up sheep.....

Naaaaaaaa

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VE3WGO on September 02, 2017, 12:03:46 PM
I like the IC-9700.  Portable, all mode, covers the main 3 V/UHF bands (no 220 or 900 MHz though).  ....it's about time the manufacturers added bandscopes to all of our radios!  After all, the idea is 79 years old already1.

The 9700 display does show 2 bands at once, but I wonder if it can do duplex for satellites.

73, Ed VE3WGO


1. US patent filed by Marcel Wallace 1938
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 02, 2017, 12:45:05 PM
Check out the Icom IC-9700 on YouTube,
Probably make FLQ give up sheep.....

Naaaaaaaa

ron
N4UE

No, he wears them big open top boots, so the hind legs can fit in there.  Then takes them to the edge of a cliff, and all they want to do is back up.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 02, 2017, 04:01:10 PM
Check out the Icom IC-9700 on YouTube,
Probably make FLQ give up sheep.....

Naaaaaaaa

ron
N4UE

No, he wears them big open top boots, so the hind legs can fit in there.  Then takes them to the edge of a cliff, and all they want to do is back up.

Mmmm......sounds like you have considerable experience in the matter.  ;D......
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 02, 2017, 05:21:28 PM
Check out the Icom IC-9700 on YouTube,
Probably make FLQ give up sheep.....

Naaaaaaaa

ron
N4UE

No, he wears them big open top boots, so the hind legs can fit in there.  Then takes them to the edge of a cliff, and all they want to do is back up.

Mmmm......sounds like you have considerable experience in the matter.  ;D......


I watch National Geographic.  I know about you guys over there... ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC4ZGP on September 03, 2017, 03:13:47 AM

Oh boy!

Ladies...Gentlemen...

We're all friends here.

On 10.103 KHz right now.

Kraus

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 03, 2017, 04:08:07 AM
Check out the Icom IC-9700 on YouTube,
Probably make FLQ give up sheep.....

Naaaaaaaa

ron
N4UE

No, he wears them big open top boots, so the hind legs can fit in there.  Then takes them to the edge of a cliff, and all they want to do is back up.

Mmmm......sounds like you have considerable experience in the matter.  ;D......


I watch National Geographic.  I know about you guys over there... ;D

Too late  ;D, the excuses don't work now.......you see, you can't kid a kidder.   ;)...............
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 03, 2017, 08:13:17 AM
Check out the Icom IC-9700 on YouTube,
Probably make FLQ give up sheep.....

Naaaaaaaa

ron
N4UE

No, he wears them big open top boots, so the hind legs can fit in there.  Then takes them to the edge of a cliff, and all they want to do is back up.

Mmmm......sounds like you have considerable experience in the matter.  ;D......


I watch National Geographic.  I know about you guys over there... ;D

Too late  ;D, the excuses don't work now.......you see, you can't kid a kidder.   ;)...............

Mmmm.  Scotland, where the men are men and the sheep are scared! ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3RSW on September 03, 2017, 01:27:28 PM
A little Scots history would enlighten.
The sheep were placed by English lords who displaced honest men sent into servitude after the English cut down the forests for oaken timber,  England's beimg excessively cut.. Etc.

http://www.interlinear.info/thatthat.m3u

Aye, "me a Wilson,"  son of a Gunn, or more accurately in Gunn protectorate.

And more for your edification and delight.  "Me son" a lieutenant Col. In USAF reserve taught to March this precisely at Vally Forge mil. academy before USAFA and concomitant graduation.
https://youtu.be/uyD370_mv5c
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 04, 2017, 02:35:08 AM
Check out the Icom IC-9700 on YouTube,
Probably make FLQ give up sheep.....

Naaaaaaaa

ron
N4UE

No, he wears them big open top boots, so the hind legs can fit in there.  Then takes them to the edge of a cliff, and all they want to do is back up.

Mmmm......sounds like you have considerable experience in the matter.  ;D......


I watch National Geographic.  I know about you guys over there... ;D

Too late  ;D, the excuses don't work now.......you see, you can't kid a kidder.   ;)...............

Mmmm.  Scotland, where the men are men and the sheep are scared! ;D

       got ya,  ...........>>>

             (https://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/4647933.jpg)

                                                                                                                             ............ ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 05, 2017, 08:29:15 AM
Sent the 7300 off to repair today.
Two bad ones in a row, although the 2nd one worked fine for a few weeks.

I would be angry if it was an expensive radio.
I wonder if its a design problem or an assembly problem or a parts quality problem...

1st radio, out of the box power output/alc failure, 180 watts out and static on the signal, very erratic.
2nd radio, screen and controls locked up.

Surface mount stuff should be good for vibration (mobile use) but I am not sure I would trust it after two failures.
I never used it mobile but was thinking of trying that....
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC4ZGP on September 05, 2017, 08:47:07 AM

Goodness.

Kraus
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on September 05, 2017, 12:01:49 PM
Sent the 7300 off to repair today.
Two bad ones in a row, although the 2nd one worked fine for a few weeks.

I would be angry if it was an expensive radio.
I wonder if its a design problem or an assembly problem or a parts quality problem...

1st radio, out of the box power output/alc failure, 180 watts out and static on the signal, very erratic.
2nd radio, screen and controls locked up.


Hi:

I think you just won the (unfortunate) lottery.   This does not seem to be a trend.
There are not lots of reports of failures, so you just statistically got unlucky.

My 7300 is a 2016 unit, and since around Sept last year I have pounded it with
more than 3000 QSO's, several RTTY contests, the AM rally, and a number of bone-headed
(Silly human) mistakes.   I also constantly use it as a test exciter at all power levels for
running cal charts on power meters, loads, attenuators, and also for test driving tube amps
while repairing.  All that, while it lives in the un-insulated garage, thermal cycling
from 60 at night to 90+ in the day.    It's almost like I am the unofficial-QA-test group trying
to break it.  I can't.  It has been rock solid for me.

So hang in there, I will be VERY surprised if your third unit does not work very well for you.
Unless;   Is there any evidence that more recent units are being sub-contracted to China for assembly?
That would end the quality run, and be worthy of an MFJ sticker...

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 05, 2017, 12:56:41 PM
I like the radio, I just don't know why it would lock up like it did.
I was going through the menu stuff and had just turned the ip plus on to see if I could tell any difference.
The tuning got a bit erratic, tuning then not, then tuning again as I turned the dial.
Then it stopped tuning and most of the buttons did not work after it booted up.
If you hold some buttons while it boots up it resets the radio to all defaults, or brings up the touch screen calibration, but after it booted up none of the buttons did anything, volume and rf gain worked, and the power button, that was it.

I hope they tell me what went wrong after they repair it...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 05, 2017, 01:43:35 PM

Goodness.

Kraus

......... ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 05, 2017, 05:17:46 PM
I like the radio, I just don't know why it would lock up like it did.
I was going through the menu stuff and had just turned the ip plus on to see if I could tell any difference.
The tuning got a bit erratic, tuning then not, then tuning again as I turned the dial.
Then it stopped tuning and most of the buttons did not work after it booted up.
If you hold some buttons while it boots up it resets the radio to all defaults, or brings up the touch screen calibration, but after it booted up none of the buttons did anything, volume and rf gain worked, and the power button, that was it.

I hope they tell me what went wrong after they repair it...

Did you try reloading from your backup on your SD card?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 05, 2017, 06:10:50 PM
You can not load firmware if the buttons and screen do not work.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KB6DYA on September 05, 2017, 06:36:39 PM
I thought some day I would like to visit Scotland,I have a friend over their that has some land I would like to see but GM1FLQ has left a sour taste of what some of the Scottish people are like? I know one thing that i have 2 28 inch monitors for window,s and just bought 2 40 inch HD monitors. 1 for the flex and the other for icom 7610 when that comes out. MY boat also has a color fish finder that I can hook up to my video displays when I want to relive a fishing trip. I have a hole 12x12 foot room that is my complete ham shack. N.A.S.A. would be proud.
KB6DYA
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 05, 2017, 06:45:39 PM
You can not load firmware if the buttons and screen do not work.

Ok, One thought that went thru my pea brain was a possible stuck down button.  That could keep other buttons from working.  Just an idea.  It will be interesting to see what they find, if they will actually tell you.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 05, 2017, 08:02:24 PM
I pressed every button and combo of buttons also while powering up and nothing worked.
It was just like the lock button was on (but no lock symbol on the screen).
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 06, 2017, 04:06:50 AM
I thought some day I would like to visit Scotland,I have a friend over their that has some land I would like to see but GM1FLQ has left a sour taste of what some of the Scottish people are like?

Oh no need to let that worry you, I'm very much in the minority - just as in the rest of the world the sheeples are very much in the majority if that makes you feel more comfortable.   :)

Your friend isn't called Donald by the way ? He's got land not far from me at Turnberry and some up in the Aberdeen area - I like Donald........ ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 06, 2017, 04:19:01 AM
I have a hole 12x12 foot room that is my complete ham shack. N.A.S.A. would be proud.
KB6DYA

Geez, sounds like the military would proud of that 12x12 hole/bunker as well.  ;)........ ;D

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 06, 2017, 04:32:26 AM
I pressed every button and combo of buttons also while powering up and nothing worked.
It was just like the lock button was on (but no lock symbol on the screen).


Jings......
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 06, 2017, 04:32:51 AM
You can not load firmware if the buttons and screen do not work.

Oh dear.......
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 06, 2017, 07:54:20 AM
You can not load firmware if the buttons and screen do not work.

Oh dear.......

Will you please go find a sheep...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VE3WGO on September 06, 2017, 08:16:13 AM
discussion if the new IC-9700 2m/70cm/23cm all-mode SDR is over in the VHF / UHF forum thread.

...but keep the barnyard thread right here.

73, Ed VE3WGO
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 06, 2017, 08:47:23 AM
Just put him on ignore, it works great.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on September 06, 2017, 09:36:28 AM
This whole thread reminds me of an experience that happened years ago.

I had just returned from a trip to Tokyo with my new 756PRO. It was announced while I was there.
After using it a while. I commented how nice the bandscope was for spotting activity. Several Ten Tec users, berated the radio calling it (like 'ole GM1FLQ) a "fish finder", "TV in a radio", ad nauseum.

Then TT came out with the Orion I/II and suddenly, it was "the best thing since sliced bread".

Yea, I own them all, even one TT, but I'll never own another!

ron
N4UE

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 06, 2017, 02:05:59 PM
Just put him on ignore, it works great.

Guess it must be a novelty having something that works after his 7300s.   ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on September 06, 2017, 02:39:22 PM
Sorry FLQ, the "IGNORE" button is ON!

Maybe the Moderators will tally how many of us have you on ignore and ban you from these Forums.

While I believe in "free speech", the fact is you provide NO useful information, ever.

ron
N4UE


Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VA3VF on September 06, 2017, 03:47:50 PM
...the "IGNORE" button is ON!

ron
N4UE

Thank you for the tip, Ron. One more 'like' for the fellow.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on September 06, 2017, 11:22:11 PM
Sorry FLQ, the "IGNORE" button is ON!

Maybe the Moderators will tally how many of us have you on ignore and ban you from these Forums.

From what I understand, in California it is illegal to ban Special Needs Children or sheep.

Quote

While I believe in "free speech", the fact is you provide NO useful information, ever.


Above is very true.  In all the time since I last challenged Mr. Sheeple FLQ to point out,
or to make, one relevant useful contribution to a technical discussion, he has not.
Frankly, by now, it is clear that he is so deeply infected with Chronic Inflamatory Trollitus,
that I don't think anyone will EVER hear a useful statement or contribution from him.
The sum total of ALL his posts for the last 30 days provide ZERO usefulness, other than
to annoy, disrupt, and confirm his 12 year old mentality.

It's a lot like trump, who can't possibly make it through one single day without telling lies,
contradicting himself, or doing something so insanely stupid that it confirms what a worthless.....
Never mind, I am not supposed to derail into worthless politics, even if it is so similar to
the "sheep Bumper".

Webster:
Poli * tics,  from the Greek roots;   Poly means many and tics are voracious insatiable blood
sucking pests.


Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 07, 2017, 02:28:27 AM
Sorry FLQ, the "IGNORE" button is ON!

Good for you.  ::)

While I believe in "free speech", the fact is you provide NO useful information, ever.

ron
N4UE


He doesn't believe in free speech - the "liberal" minded love to virtue signal with that old gem, but here is the big "but" - they only believe in it when the conversation is dancing to their tune and when it doesn't their common tactic is to have it shut down.   ;)............>>

Maybe the Moderators will tally how many of us have you on ignore and ban you from these Forums.

and

Since when did it become mandatory for people to provide useful information on internet forums - what is useful is a matter of opinion anyhow - as it is to whom it may be useful.   :).........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 07, 2017, 02:40:45 AM

From what I understand, in California it is illegal to ban Special Needs Children or sheep.


I noticed that.  ;)  
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 07, 2017, 03:24:23 AM

........... In all the time since I last challenged Mr. Sheeple FLQ to point out,
or to make, one relevant useful contribution to a technical discussion, he has not.
Frankly, by now, it is clear that he is so deeply infected with Chronic Inflamatory Trollitus,
that I don't think anyone will EVER hear a useful statement or contribution from him.
The sum total of ALL his posts for the last 30 days provide ZERO usefulness, other than
to annoy, disrupt, and confirm his 12 year old mentality............


I think I may have posted something useful about 10 years ago, you're getting awfully demanding   ;D........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 07, 2017, 03:29:41 AM

It's a lot like trump, who can't possibly make it through one single day without telling lies,
contradicting himself, or doing something so insanely stupid that it confirms what a worthless.....
Never mind, I am not supposed to derail into worthless politics, even if it is so similar to
the "sheep Bumper".

Webster:
Poli * tics,  from the Greek roots;   Poly means many and tics are voracious insatiable blood
sucking pests.


You've been watching too much of that clinton news network (cnn) again  :-\..........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 07, 2017, 05:13:47 AM
You can also put the people that respond to him on ignore, and let them have their fun interacting with him.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N0YXB on September 07, 2017, 05:45:20 AM
Sorry FLQ, the "IGNORE" button is ON!

Maybe the Moderators will tally how many of us have you on ignore and ban you from these Forums.

While I believe in "free speech", the fact is you provide NO useful information, ever.

ron
N4UE


Ditto. I'm seeing a LOT of "This user is currently ignored" messages, and it's wonderful.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on September 07, 2017, 10:51:16 AM
IGNORE is working great!
My post #661 must have really frustrated the little fool, since I see
4 rapid bursts of:

THIS USER IS CURRENTLY IGNORED    [cry, sob, frown]

right after my post :-)   :-)

Apparently, the Troll-Meister hath been silenced....
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 07, 2017, 11:15:17 AM
Apparently, the Troll-Meister hath been silenced....

Jings........seemingly doesn't hold much value in the 1st Amendment or just makes up his own version of it.   Typical.   :)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 07, 2017, 11:20:42 AM
Ditto. I'm seeing a LOT of "This user is currently ignored" messages, and it's wonderful.

If he equates that to "wonderful"..........reckon he needs to get out more.  :o....... ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 07, 2017, 11:29:15 AM
IGNORE is working great!
My post #661 must have really frustrated the little fool, since I see
4 rapid bursts of:

THIS USER IS CURRENTLY IGNORED  


You couldn't make that up  ;D.........

                                                    (http://www.jammiewf.com/assets/ironymeter-150x150.jpg)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on September 07, 2017, 03:10:10 PM
Neil, thank you! You said it more eloquently than I ever could!

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on September 07, 2017, 07:30:22 PM
Had a contact with KN4CUE on his IC-7300 late last Sunday. Very late for the band. Really outstanding audio from that radio. Look him up on QRZ. Very cool setup.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 07, 2017, 11:19:42 PM
Neil, thank you! You said it more eloquently than I ever could!

ron
N4UE

Attaboy aaaattaboy Neil   ;D.........

..........but hey, what about poor wee ronny, he thinks they'll soon be rewriting Shakespeare in Neil-speak "eloquence."    ;D..........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 07, 2017, 11:55:16 PM
Had a contact with KN4CUE on his IC-7300 late last Sunday. Very late for the band. Really outstanding audio from that radio. Look him up on QRZ. Very cool setup.

Vandalism of a Heathkit case.

Got a much more tasteful idea - jig-saw/chisel out that 7300 fishfinder screen of his and bolt an 8-track player in there  ;D.........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on September 08, 2017, 09:49:34 AM
Had a contact with KN4CUE on his IC-7300 late last Sunday. Very late for the band. Really outstanding audio from that radio. Look him up on QRZ. Very cool setup.

I saw his page also and it is a very neat and uncluttered setup, wish I could say the same for my shack. ;D   I had an opportunity to operate an IC-7300 shortly after they came out and the receive audio was so good I was amazed.  Since then I have worked several of them on the air and the transmit audio is also outstanding.  I think you can buy a better radio for the price.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W3RSW on September 08, 2017, 10:42:55 AM
Did you mean to say you think a better radio can't be had for the price?
It certainly filled a niche, or maybe better stated, created a pretty big niche with amazing sales for verification.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on September 08, 2017, 10:54:53 AM
I knew what he meant.   I also bought an Icom 7300, and soon stopped using my other Yaesu.
While the 7300 is an entry level radio  (One antenna jack, no dual receivers, etc), it is DARN good entry
level radio, and really easy and fun to use.  And, more important for JT-65 type users, absolutely FLAT
audio receive passband that is 3600hz wide on the JT waterfall scope.   None of the bell-curve gradual
roll-off like my Yaesu.   When I set it 3600hz wide for digital, it really is nice FLAT TOP 3600 wide and
then falls off a cliff outside that passband.

I could go on and on about the audio quality, how robust it has been even in extended RTTY contesting,
or how I found great ways to use it on FT-8 mode, but all of that would just be repetition.    For those
who are using one, they know what I mean.   For those who use other rigs, that is just fine.
We all drive different shape, color, power cars on the road, and they ALL get us to the destination.

Cheers
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on September 08, 2017, 08:30:59 PM
Did you mean to say you think a better radio can't be had for the price?
It certainly filled a niche, or maybe better stated, created a pretty big niche with amazing sales for verification.

Yes, that is what I meant, I had a cranium cramp.  Just got home from three weeks in San Diego and I am jet lagged big time.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 11, 2017, 12:49:21 PM
I have had all sorts of rigs, and the 7300 works quite well (well enough) but its easy and fun to navigate and use, that is the fun part.
The touch screen opens up a lot of control abilities without adding to buttons and menu's.

And I am not a touch screen guy.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 11, 2017, 06:05:58 PM
I have three friends who recently purchased the IC7300, there comments were that they were totally blown away how well the RX sounded on the 7300. some came from radio's like the FTDX5000, Icom 7600/7700 or Kenwood TS590SG. They are very impressed with the SDR receiver section and one has an Elad Duo as well. One owns a Flex 6300 and still would rather use the 7300, weather it be rag chew or DXing and some even contest with the rig. I think Icom did not think this radio was going to be this hot but it is, maybe not the best radio ever but good enough and when used properly it fantastic.
I have and use a FTDX3000 now but very strongly thinking of a 7300 as well, its also at a very proper price so the CFO doesn't seem to mind as much, LOL and who knows maybe when the 6400 start to ship I'll trade in my 3K but I got to say its a hard call that low noise floor of the FTDX3K is nice an low for week signal work.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on September 11, 2017, 09:41:46 PM
I have three friends who recently purchased the IC7300, there comments were that they were totally blown away how well the RX sounded on the 7300. some came from radio's like the FTDX5000, Icom 7600/7700 or Kenwood TS590SG. They are very impressed with the SDR receiver section and one has an Elad Duo as well. One owns a Flex 6300 and still would rather use the 7300, weather it be rag chew or DXing and some even contest with the rig. I think Icom did not think this radio was going to be this hot but it is, maybe not the best radio ever but good enough and when used properly it fantastic.
I have and use a FTDX3000 now but very strongly thinking of a 7300 as well, its also at a very proper price so the CFO doesn't seem to mind as much, LOL and who knows maybe when the 6400 start to ship I'll trade in my 3K but I got to say its a hard call that low noise floor of the FTDX3K is nice an low for week signal work.

I also have an FT-DX3000 and more recently an Icom 7300.   While the FT-DX3000 is not an entry level radio, and has extra
antenna jacks, RF and IF output, an amazing receiver section, etc,
I just find the Icom 7300 easier and faster to use, without constantly digging down into menus.
Both companies have fine Electronics engineers, but Icom clearly also hired a User Interface engineer.
After the first hour of playing with one, you find yourself zipping all around at better speed,
using on screen touch as though they were hard button, and using the multi-dial a lot also.
It is hard to put it into words, because both radios perform really well, but the Icom 7300 is
just a LOT of fun to work with.   And, it is MUCH better for digital modes than my FT-DX3000 Yaesu.
The Yaesu has a limited audio passband that is not flat, like most older Superhet radios.  Does not matter.
Until you get spoiled by the Icom 7300;  For digital modes like JT-65, the receive audio passband can be
set FLAT AS A TABLE all the way to 3,600 hz.  Or with the twist of a knob, set to any of 3 filter sizes you
choose, either gentle sloping, or sharp as a cliff.    You just need to spend a day or two with one, and nobody
can pry it out of your hands.     I keep my Yaesu as a back-up radio, but I see no compelling reason to operate
on it daily.

It's too bad they don't rent the Icom 7300 like they rent tools or cameras.   You could try one for a weekend
to decide if you like it.   (Or, you could camp out at Ham Radio Outlet for a day and play with theirs)

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 12, 2017, 12:00:29 AM
Sent the 7300 off to repair today.
Two bad ones in a row, although the 2nd one worked fine for a few weeks.

I would be angry if it was an expensive radio.
I wonder if its a design problem or an assembly problem or a parts quality problem...

1st radio, out of the box power output/alc failure, 180 watts out and static on the signal, very erratic.
2nd radio, screen and controls locked up.


...........>>>


I have had all sorts of rigs, and the 7300 works quite well (well enough)..........


 Uh  :-\.............
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 12, 2017, 04:21:03 AM
I have three friends who recently purchased the IC7300, there comments were that they were totally blown away how well the RX sounded on the 7300. some came from radio's like the FTDX5000, Icom 7600/7700 or Kenwood TS590SG. They are very impressed with the SDR receiver section and one has an Elad Duo as well. One owns a Flex 6300 and still would rather use the 7300, weather it be rag chew or DXing and some even contest with the rig. I think Icom did not think this radio was going to be this hot but it is, maybe not the best radio ever but good enough and when used properly it fantastic.
I have and use a FTDX3000 now but very strongly thinking of a 7300 as well, its also at a very proper price so the CFO doesn't seem to mind as much, LOL and who knows maybe when the 6400 start to ship I'll trade in my 3K but I got to say its a hard call that low noise floor of the FTDX3K is nice an low for week signal work.

I also have an FT-DX3000 and more recently an Icom 7300.   While the FT-DX3000 is not an entry level radio, and has extra
antenna jacks, RF and IF output, an amazing receiver section, etc,
I just find the Icom 7300 easier and faster to use, without constantly digging down into menus.
Both companies have fine Electronics engineers, but Icom clearly also hired a User Interface engineer.
After the first hour of playing with one, you find yourself zipping all around at better speed,
using on screen touch as though they were hard button, and using the multi-dial a lot also.
It is hard to put it into words, because both radios perform really well, but the Icom 7300 is
just a LOT of fun to work with.   And, it is MUCH better for digital modes than my FT-DX3000 Yaesu.
The Yaesu has a limited audio passband that is not flat, like most older Superhet radios.  Does not matter.
Until you get spoiled by the Icom 7300;  For digital modes like JT-65, the receive audio passband can be
set FLAT AS A TABLE all the way to 3,600 hz.  Or with the twist of a knob, set to any of 3 filter sizes you
choose, either gentle sloping, or sharp as a cliff.    You just need to spend a day or two with one, and nobody
can pry it out of your hands.     I keep my Yaesu as a back-up radio, but I see no compelling reason to operate
on it daily.

It's too bad they don't rent the Icom 7300 like they rent tools or cameras.   You could try one for a weekend
to decide if you like it.   (Or, you could camp out at Ham Radio Outlet for a day and play with theirs)

Neal

Out here in the sticks, we don't have any ham radio stores, so you pay your money and you take your chances with rigs.  But like you said when you get your hands on the 7300 it is just so smooth and easy to operate you don't want to part with it.  I have a 756pro3 too and hardly use it now.  Yes it is covered in individual buttons, but yet I gravitate to the touch screen and smooth operating system of the 7300.  Not to mention better audio both ways.  I had an old ham friend come over and spent about an hour with my 7300, and he went home and ordered one immediately.  He has good serviceable rigs from the 90's (yaesu 767GX) but he had to have the 7300 after using if for a while. I also helped him get on digital modes, and he has become quite the digital junkie in the last few months.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 14, 2017, 04:14:56 PM
Fast turn around time on the repair.
The note said the LCD digitizer was inoperative, replaced LCD.

The radio works fine now.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 14, 2017, 09:31:25 PM
Neal I hear you and I feel in the next month or so I'll be treating myself to a 7300, it seems like the go to radio to use for an every day radio, I still like the FTDX3K, its speech possessor is a DX meat grinder and you only need a very small amount of compression plus the parametric EQ is more advanced then the Icom radio's but for every day use the 7300 always sound clean and smooth on ssb.
For contesting I feel the 3000 would be better but when I get them side by side I'll let you know. I would hope down the road that Icom would make a MKII version with external antenna loop/ports and a monitor out for use of an external monitor display, that would be the cats nuts. It would be a hellova follow up to and already extremely popular radio.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 15, 2017, 01:27:05 AM
Neal I hear you and I feel in the next month or so I'll be treating myself to a 7300, it seems like the go to radio to use for an every day radio, I still like the FTDX3K, its speech possessor is a DX meat grinder and you only need a very small amount of compression plus the parametric EQ is more advanced then the Icom radio's but for every day use the 7300 always sound clean and smooth on ssb.

..........so does a TS830, just sayin  :).........

For contesting I feel the 3000 would be better but when I get them side by side I'll let you know. I would hope down the road that Icom would make a MKII version with external antenna loop/ports and a monitor out for use of an external monitor display, that would be the cats nuts. It would be a hellova follow up to and already extremely popular radio.

.........yeah, rumour has it the 7300 "pro2 NASA" will have at least 6 HDMI outputs for the special pro hams  ::)..........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N0YXB on September 15, 2017, 07:21:22 AM

For contesting I feel the 3000 would be better but when I get them side by side I'll let you know. I would hope down the road that Icom would make a MKII version with external antenna loop/ports and a monitor out for use of an external monitor display, that would be the cats nuts. It would be a hellova follow up to and already extremely popular radio.

It will be interesting to hear the results of your side by side experiences. And agree with the MKII suggestion, that would be nice.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 15, 2017, 11:11:54 AM
There sure is a lot of extra space inside the radio for adding stuff if they wanted.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on September 15, 2017, 11:16:29 AM

For contesting I feel the 3000 would be better but when I get them side by side I'll let you know. I would hope down the road that Icom would make a MKII version with external antenna loop/ports and a monitor out for use of an external monitor display, that would be the cats nuts. It would be a hellova follow up to and already extremely popular radio.

It will be interesting to hear the results of your side by side experiences. And agree with the MKII suggestion, that would be nice.

I am also interested in the weak signal performance compared against the FT-3000.  The FT-3000 has a very low noise floor, possibly lower than any other radio but I would have to check on that.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 15, 2017, 11:31:18 AM

For contesting I feel the 3000 would be better but when I get them side by side I'll let you know. I would hope down the road that Icom would make a MKII version with external antenna loop/ports and a monitor out for use of an external monitor display, that would be the cats nuts. It would be a hellova follow up to and already extremely popular radio.

It will be interesting to hear the results of your side by side experiences. And agree with the MKII suggestion, that would be nice.

I am also interested in the weak signal performance compared against the FT-3000.  The FT-3000 has a very low noise floor, possibly lower than any other radio but I would have to check on that.

In my opinion.. And it is just that, an opinion, I don't think low noise floor or receiver sensitivity matters a bit in today's world.  They did at some point years ago, but the noise floor worldwide is so much higher in most locations than any generated noise in the receiver as to make these figures a moot point.  The noise floor has been rising year over year.  It is like cooking the frog by bring the water to a higher temprature slowly.  We don't notice it so much, but I guarantee you it is a lot higher than when I was a young ham.

Think about my theory here:  There are now millions, if not billions of switch mode power supplies in use today worldwide.  All of them radiate RF energy from DC up to and thru our VHF frequencies.  What are these little radiators hooked to?  To antennas in the form of the power wiring in our homes, and entrance drops, and some of it probably even goes thru the pole transformers.  So you have a source of broadband RF energy with a means (antenna) to radiate it.  And radiate it they do.  Now multiply that by millions or billions.  So no, I don't think a low noise receiver is important today. Even if you live out in the sticks, I think a lot of that radiated energy is propagated to you thru normal ionospheric propagation from large population centers.   I could be FOS, or I could be right.  :)

What is important is the tools the receiver provides to suppress or fight these noise sources in the form of DSP processing. I think this is very important, and will become more so in the near future. I also think that the advent of new digital techniques to "dig down" into the noise and capture signals will become more important.  I think old boatanchor rigs will become even more useless than they already are.  That is why they call them "boatanchors".  Because that would be one good use for them, or perhaps as a door stop for some of the smaller ones.   ;D

Of course YMMV, and opinions are like.....  ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 15, 2017, 04:42:31 PM
I live in a normal suburb and have a low noise level most times.
Someone does have a plasma TV that is on sometimes and causes some noise on some frequencies, but its not much of an issue.

I find noise important, my home brew receivers are designed to have very low noise and weak signals are much easier copy on them then most receivers.
But its more signal to noise ratio then just noise.
A radio like the 7300 seems quite poor at first listen, but its got a lot of gain.

If you terminate the antenna port into a shielded 50 ohm load and turn the volume up:
Homebrew, NO noise, even with the volume all the way up, a slight background hum,
Anan 200B, some hiss, low at normal listening volume,
7300, some hiss, lower then the Anan, but I can pick up really strong signals on the dummy load.

The 7300 is super sensitive even without the preamp, the rf gain needs to be used.

In the past, I compared other receivers like the r390a, icom 756 pro3, flex 5000 and 3000 and others, and the high end sdr's seem to do best.
Any triple conversion receiver I ever tried was very poor and not just in the noise department.
The 70 MHz first IF were all very poor in my book.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on September 15, 2017, 08:19:50 PM
... but I can pick up really strong signals on the dummy load.

I understand that you can also pick up really strong signals on an MFJ antenna.
No real difference there.  :-)

Cheers
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on September 15, 2017, 08:54:11 PM

For contesting I feel the 3000 would be better but when I get them side by side I'll let you know. I would hope down the road that Icom would make a MKII version with external antenna loop/ports and a monitor out for use of an external monitor display, that would be the cats nuts. It would be a hellova follow up to and already extremely popular radio.

It will be interesting to hear the results of your side by side experiences. And agree with the MKII suggestion, that would be nice.

I am also interested in the weak signal performance compared against the FT-3000.  The FT-3000 has a very low noise floor, possibly lower than any other radio but I would have to check on that.

In my opinion.. And it is just that, an opinion, I don't think low noise floor or receiver sensitivity matters a bit in today's world.  They did at some point years ago, but the noise floor worldwide is so much higher in most locations than any generated noise in the receiver as to make these figures a moot point.  The noise floor has been rising year over year.  It is like cooking the frog by bring the water to a higher temprature slowly.  We don't notice it so much, but I guarantee you it is a lot higher than when I was a young ham.

Think about my theory here:  There are now millions, if not billions of switch mode power supplies in use today worldwide.  All of them radiate RF energy from DC up to and thru our VHF frequencies.  What are these little radiators hooked to?  To antennas in the form of the power wiring in our homes, and entrance drops, and some of it probably even goes thru the pole transformers.  So you have a source of broadband RF energy with a means (antenna) to radiate it.  And radiate it they do.  Now multiply that by millions or billions.  So no, I don't think a low noise receiver is important today. Even if you live out in the sticks, I think a lot of that radiated energy is propagated to you thru normal ionospheric propagation from large population centers.   I could be FOS, or I could be right.  :)

What is important is the tools the receiver provides to suppress or fight these noise sources in the form of DSP processing. I think this is very important, and will become more so in the near future. I also think that the advent of new digital techniques to "dig down" into the noise and capture signals will become more important.  I think old boatanchor rigs will become even more useless than they already are.  That is why they call them "boatanchors".  Because that would be one good use for them, or perhaps as a door stop for some of the smaller ones.   ;D

Of course YMMV, and opinions are like.....  ;D

I disagree, a low noise front end establishes the signal to noise ratio for the entire system.  When working weak signal DX it is always desirable to have a receiver that introduces as little internal noise as possible.  Granted the noise floor on the lower bands is high but a quiet radio still beats a noisy one when copying weak signals, especially on CW.  The latest radios have superior close in phase noise that greatly enhances the S/NR compared to older boat anchors.  After all I was talking about the FT-3000, not an SX-101.  There are however, several radios from the 1980's that had exceptionally quiet front ends and when coupled with an audio DSP filter they are dynamite DX rigs.   
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 16, 2017, 06:52:57 PM
Just recently I came across a YouTube video of an SP station using the tuner in the IC7300 to help with slight out of band noise he was getting on his 7300, when the tuner was press in it completely removed the noise and you could see the difference on the waterfall which turned darker blue. This may be of interest for users that may use 7300 during FD or contest in SO2R.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 17, 2017, 05:22:16 AM
Just recently I came across a YouTube video of an SP station using the tuner in the IC7300 to help with slight out of band noise he was getting on his 7300, when the tuner was press in it completely removed the noise and you could see the difference on the waterfall which turned darker blue. This may be of interest for users that may use 7300 during FD or contest in SO2R.

Probably due more to the attenuation caused by the typical pathetic internal tuner found in most rigs that have them.  :-\
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W9IQ on September 17, 2017, 05:30:37 AM
Quote
Probably due more to the attenuation caused by the typical pathetic internal tuner found in most rigs that have them.

Highly doubtful since any loss within tuning range is typically < 1 dB.

- Glenn W9IQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 17, 2017, 08:27:40 AM
Even on six meters I have never seen any loss when using or not using the tuner in line, having the tuner in line on receive does help narrow down the front end to the band you are tuned to. I remember a QST review of the original IC756, not the pro models that they did a second order test with the tuner in line on the RX side and it really boosted the second order numbers in a good way but 20 to 30db or soo so if your radio can use the tuner on receive it will help like with a neighbor down the street that is on another band or in field day or contest.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 18, 2017, 12:39:41 AM
Quote
Probably due more to the attenuation caused by the typical pathetic internal tuner found in most rigs that have them.

Highly doubtful since any loss within tuning range is typically < 1 dB.

- Glenn W9IQ

Was being a touch facetious, just for a change you understand.   ;D.........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 18, 2017, 12:56:29 AM
Even on six meters I have never seen any loss when using or not using the tuner in line, having the tuner in line on receive does help narrow down the front end to the band you are tuned to. I remember a QST review of the original IC756, not the pro models that they did a second order test with the tuner in line on the RX side and it really boosted the second order numbers in a good way but 20 to 30db or soo so if your radio can use the tuner on receive it will help like with a neighbor down the street that is on another band or in field day or contest.

Get it, but prefer to use a proper external tuner (Harris for remote, QRO homebrew in shack) - one look at any of your internal tuners (or many of the ham market remote/auto tuners for that matter) and for me it is - nah, no thanks.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 18, 2017, 07:10:13 AM
To GM1FLQ, hey bud you just don't get it nobody cares on any of these forums what you post cause most here have you ignored and if you don't know what that means is that we see your call but no post, it is one of the great features of e ham to get rid off guys like yourself who just want to aggravate others without adding anything useful information to these forums, its like having a silence button. So unless your an oxy moron just keep posting cause most here don't care. Have a nice day.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC4ZGP on September 18, 2017, 07:37:18 AM
Just recently I came across a YouTube video of an SP station using the tuner in the IC7300 to help with slight out of band noise he was getting on his 7300, when the tuner was press in it completely removed the noise and you could see the difference on the waterfall which turned darker blue. This may be of interest for users that may use 7300 during FD or contest in SO2R.

Probably due more to the attenuation caused by the typical pathetic internal tuner found in most rigs that have them.  :-\

Yuper-oo! My TS-450S lacks impedance matching capability for 160 metres. The band requires bigger capacitors and coils.
Just ain't no room inside. Since I use and external impedance matcher for my big 160 metre loop, I disconnected it. I've
bypassed it completely. I soldered W-5 on the filter board.

Fall is near which means 160 meters, ooops I mean metres will be opening up. I'm going to spend next several months
on one-sixty. Who wants to join me?

And say hey to your families.

Kraus



Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 18, 2017, 12:19:23 PM
To GM1FLQ, hey bud you just don't get it nobody cares on any of these forums what you post cause most here have you ignored and if you don't know what that means is that we see your call but no post, it is one of the great features of e ham to get rid off guys like yourself who just want to aggravate others without adding anything useful information to these forums, its like having a silence button. So unless your an oxy moron just keep posting cause most here don't care. Have a nice day.

a nice day was had thanks, how's the hypertension  :)........

(Strange thing & any wonder I don't get it  ;D......but keep getting told I'm getting ignored, yet there we go again.  ;D)

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC4ZGP on September 18, 2017, 12:32:02 PM
Herr LQ.

I too am at a loss. If you're so ignored, why do so many answer you. Pushing the 'ignore' button is
evident of a shallow person.

Anyway. Are you a 160 CW kind-of-guy. I had a wonderful Morse contact via 160 this past Saturday.
Ohhhh I am a hungry one. 18:00 my time is 22:00 your time. Maybe we'll have gray line propagation
contact?

Kraus

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 18, 2017, 12:51:35 PM
Herr LQ.

I too am at a loss. If you're so ignored, why do so many answer you. Pushing the 'ignore' button is
evident of a shallow person.

Anyway. Are you a 160 CW kind-of-guy. I had a wonderful Morse contact via 160 this past Saturday.
Ohhhh I am a hungry one. 18:00 my time is 22:00 your time. Maybe we'll have gray line propagation
contact?

Kraus

Hiya Kraus, would be a 160 CW kind-of-guy but only got the vhf/uhf antennas up at present, the hf antennas/supports are down for a refurb before winter sets in.

Have fun......


Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC4ZGP on September 18, 2017, 12:56:41 PM

Need help? I've always wanted to go to Scotland. Just wish I had the money however.

Get 'er done and quickly.

Say hey to the family.

Kraus
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N0YXB on September 18, 2017, 03:09:51 PM
...cause most here have you ignored and if you don't know what that means is that we see your call but no post, it is one of the great features of e ham to get rid off guys like yourself who just want to aggravate others without adding anything useful information to these forums, its like having a silence button. So unless your an oxy moron just keep posting cause most here don't care.

It makes them look pathetic actually. Thanks for sharing something about the 7300 in spite of the socially inept ones.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 19, 2017, 12:14:53 AM
...cause most here have you ignored and if you don't know what that means is that we see your call but no post, it is one of the great features of e ham to get rid off guys like yourself who just want to aggravate others without adding anything useful information to these forums, its like having a silence button. So unless your an oxy moron just keep posting cause most here don't care.

It makes them look pathetic actually.

 ;D...........

Suppose things outside their sheeple/mob echo chamber could well be.    

"Ignore" working well again  ::).........

       (https://s3.amazonaws.com/halleonard-pagepreviews/HL_DDS_0000000000132610.png)

  ;D..........

  
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC4ZGP on September 19, 2017, 05:13:14 AM

FLQ,

A right nice tune.

Say have you heard any of my own compositions by Irving Berlin?

Got up on 160 this morning. Send CQ several times. One fellow sent a question mark. I answered.
He never came back. Perhaps my 10WPM is too fast for him or her. I know if I couldn't copy that
fast, I'd be intimidated too.

And B.T.W. a little known fact known by many is 15WPM is the limit of a human's ability to copy
Morse except those who can copy faster.

B.T.W. is short for by the way. I didn't want to type by the way as that would take too long. So I
abbreviated by the way with B.T.W. Quite efficient on my part wouldn't you say?

Kraus
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 19, 2017, 06:51:43 AM
I found a good use for my 7300, I drive my homebrew 813 rig with its output (carrier only) and use the band scope as a 2nd band watch.(https://photos.smugmug.com/Ham-radio/i-WJZB78M/0/868203c2/L/P9160060-L.jpg)
I can have the Anan on 80 meters and the 7300 on 40 and see both band activity at the same time.
I could do that with the Anan I think, but its easier this way.

Works great in this service. As an RX its a bit poor because the low audio is chopped off at 200 Hz.

Great CW rig though, I should get my speed back up and make some CW contacts with it.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N0YXB on September 19, 2017, 07:42:26 AM
Very cool, always like seeing photos of your shack.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on September 19, 2017, 10:44:47 AM
I found a good use for my 7300, I drive my homebrew 813 rig with its output (carrier only) and use the band scope as a 2nd band watch.(https://photos.smugmug.com/Ham-radio/i-WJZB78M/0/868203c2/L/P9160060-L.jpg)
I can have the Anan on 80 meters and the 7300 on 40 and see both band activity at the same time.
I could do that with the Anan I think, but its easier this way.

Works great in this service. As an RX its a bit poor because the low audio is chopped off at 200 Hz.

Great CW rig though, I should get my speed back up and make some CW contacts with it.


Nice amp but of course you're joking about the RX being poor because it's chopped off at 200 HZ.  The IC-7300, like all amateur radios that I know of, is a communications receiver.  There is no practical advantage to having the audio envelope extend below 300 HZ for communications purposes. The IC-7300 is a very fine receiver when used for the type of radio communications for which it was designed. 

 http://www.w0btu.com/ssb_audio-weak_signal.html

Instead of saying something bad about the IC-7300 because it does not have some obscure specification that you, and almost no one else wants, why don't you just buy an R-390A.  With a couple of easy mods it might get you a smidge below 200 HZ on the low end but it will be pretty rolled off by the IF filter response no matter what you do.  Hey, you can build your own amp, you should be able to modify a receiver.

 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 19, 2017, 12:28:34 PM
Maybe Icom will se your post and include a firmware change in the next up grade, who knows but there are more than a few radio's these days that can be taylored on the RX side to go below 200Hz and that will give a nice bottom end on receive when operating the AM mode. Nice shack and I see you have the BIG CUP for your coffee for those AM rag chews.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 19, 2017, 01:07:03 PM
Some people are not buying the 7300 because of the low frequency cut off, and the lack of highs on TX as well.
People DO SWL with radios, and fidelity matters to some people, if you just need to communicate, why use ham radio and why not just call someone on your cell phone?

I think there is more to ham radio then just communication.

Also, I do not own an amp. The picture is of my shack, homebrew transmitters, receivers and audio processing (all using tubes).
I do not really use ssb, I do almost all AM where fidelity (not hi fidelity) matters. Its nice to listen to someone who sounds just like they do in person.
The r390 series go down to at least 50 Hz stock and the roll off is gradual.
The icom has a high pass filter on the output of the A/D converter so I doubt it will be fixed by firmware.
The 7300 sounds VERY bad on receive compared to the homebrew or any other sdr receiver.
Like listening to classical music on a transistor radio with a 2 inch speaker...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 20, 2017, 02:36:24 AM
Some people are not buying the 7300 because of the low frequency cut off, and the lack of highs on TX as well.
People DO SWL with radios, and fidelity matters to some people, if you just need to communicate, why use ham radio and why not just call someone on your cell phone?...........


.........yeah, wish those that seem intent in bringing/encouraging smartphone/Ipad like radios into the hobby would do just that........use their flippin cell phone & leave ham radio alone.  ;)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: GM1FLQ on September 20, 2017, 03:18:25 AM

I think there is more to ham radio then just communication.


I'll just put you right on that    :).......

True hams don't need/require "more".........if that requires explaining you are not a radio ham - you are a hobbyist   ;)..........
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 20, 2017, 07:39:20 AM
In your posts its funny that you own a 7300, everything you have stated how bad the audio is makes me think it should be sold, I am sure you could figure a way to get an IF out of the R390 and get a spectrum scope. Most folks buy the 7300 for either the digital modes, cw or ssb, they like the spectrum display, and if you look at the audio response on the RX side its good enough for most and far better then the K2/K3 radio's that to my ears sound tinny like that 2" transistor radio you describe, the 7300 has far better audio. Tube radio's have always had far wider frequency audio response, maybe not as low in distortion but that rich harmonic content is what most audiophiles consider best overall performance as far as being true to reproducing real performance but may not be the most accurate in response.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AI8IA on September 20, 2017, 08:06:09 AM
I'm probably late to the game but what in the world is the deal with the KX3 vs. 7300 comparison on Elecraft's website? Don't get me wrong... I like my KX1 and K2 quite a bit, but if you add up all the options that make it a valid comparison, the KX3 is upwards of 3 grand. Apples/Oranges much?

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N0YXB on September 20, 2017, 08:09:11 AM
I hear you.  But marketing is the engine that drives a company.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on September 20, 2017, 08:36:26 AM
I'm probably late to the game but what in the world is the deal with the KX3 vs. 7300 comparison on Elecraft's website? Don't get me wrong... I like my KX1 and K2 quite a bit, but if you add up all the options that make it a valid comparison, the KX3 is upwards of 3 grand. Apples/Oranges much?



Even more ridiculous is their website comparison of the K3s to the 7300. With P3 panadapter, ATU, and other accessories that the 7300 has built-in, the K3s is in excess of $5,500. What were  they thinking? Is that $1,250 radio hurting their sales that much?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 20, 2017, 08:37:22 AM
I guess I don't know any better, I think the 7300 sounds VERY good on receive, and I receive unsolicited transmit audio reports.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 20, 2017, 08:38:34 AM
I'm probably late to the game but what in the world is the deal with the KX3 vs. 7300 comparison on Elecraft's website? Don't get me wrong... I like my KX1 and K2 quite a bit, but if you add up all the options that make it a valid comparison, the KX3 is upwards of 3 grand. Apples/Oranges much?



Even more ridiculous is their website comparison of the K3s to the 7300. With P3 panadapter, ATU, and other accessories that the 7300 has built-in, the K3s is in excess of $5,500. What were  they thinking? Is that $1,250 radio hurting their sales that much?

Apparently so.  I never saw them in the same class, but oddly Elecraft seems to think so.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 20, 2017, 10:33:52 AM
Sounds like a fair telephone.
I have heard better sound on some phones (pollycom ip phone).
200 to 3000Hz  is communications audio and can not be said to sound good, just understandable.
A Flex or Anan can go 10 Hz to 20,000 Hz, and can be set any way you like, say 50 to 4000 is nice, maybe out to 5000 Hz for broadcast.
Elecraft does better then the 7300, and they are hardly known for fidelity...

The radio sounds ok on TX in stock form, its clean and well rounded but not great.
Its fine on ssb, better then it needs to be on that mode....



I guess I don't know any better, I think the 7300 sounds VERY good on receive, and I receive unsolicited transmit audio reports.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VE3WGO on September 20, 2017, 06:32:10 PM
sure, but as has already been established, comparing a kilobuck entry level portable radio like the 7300 to another radio that's more than twice its size and weight and three+ times its price is well..... kind of silly.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 20, 2017, 06:40:29 PM
Nothing to do with price, its just how they made the radio.
Many cheaper sdr receivers can do 10 to 20,000 Hz on rx if you want.
They may have cut the lows to remove low frequency grunge, or to block sub audible repeater tones or something, or just because they wanted it that way.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VE3WGO on September 20, 2017, 07:20:47 PM
do those cheaper SDR receivers have an audio amplifier, or do they rely on the user supplying a computer to do that? 

For many SDRs we have to remember that most of them need you to add a computer + monitor + cables + speakers just to complete a basic receiver function.  So some portions of the performance of the system (especially the demodulation and audio) are more a function of the computer and its soundcard hardware and software, than they are of the SDR frontend.  Not to forget that the total price of all that computing gear is often many times the price of the basic SDR itself.  Okay, if you are lucky enough to have a spare computer system just sitting idle, then your cost can be lower... but it can't be just any computer, it has to have a good soundcard and display, so it's admittedly probably not an old spare one just lying idle.

Is there a way to get at the IF output of your 7300 if you want your computer to recover Hi-Fi audio?


Anyway, since most of the fundamental frequencies of the human voice are something between 80 to 250 Hz depending on the speaker's age and gender, it would seem that maximum realism might be easy enough to recreate with a subharmonic synthesizer if your receiver lacks low end.  Now, DBX has been doing that for many years and sells a few models for rock bands and audiophiles :) to add balls to their bass amplifier or subwoofer.  And the DBX 120A runs under $200, so it's a lot cheaper than much of the gear in the shack.

The DBX could also be used in voice processing boards for the AMers who love to get close to their dynamic mic and get just a little boomy the way the cool FM radio DJs did it back in the 70s.  But if you aren't listening to one of those, then 250 Hz is a great place to rolloff the bottom end.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 21, 2017, 06:42:39 AM
Some have audio line outputs, some use the computer audio, some do both.
The only limitations are the audio system you plug it into, the radio/filters can do 10 to 20,000 Hz at least.
As a direct digital conversion, I am not sure there is an IF output as there is no IF on many sdr's.
the 7300 may have something they call and IF, not sure what it is, I would have to look it up.

Listening to a good voice signal I can switch between three receivers, the 7300, Anan and my homebrew.
All the audio outputs go into an old Marantz audio amplifier and into a selection of speakers, including a big 3 way with a 12 inch woofer.

The last two radios sound good and natural, and yes, sometimes I have to cut the low end, but they sound MUCH better then the 7300.
Even most ssb signals sound MUCH better on the Anan.
Going down to 100 Hz likely would have made a huge improvement...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on September 21, 2017, 10:09:38 AM
Some have audio line outputs, some use the computer audio, some do both.
The only limitations are the audio system you plug it into, the radio/filters can do 10 to 20,000 Hz at least.
As a direct digital conversion, I am not sure there is an IF output as there is no IF on many sdr's.
the 7300 may have something they call and IF, not sure what it is, I would have to look it up.

Listening to a good voice signal I can switch between three receivers, the 7300, Anan and my homebrew.
All the audio outputs go into an old Marantz audio amplifier and into a selection of speakers, including a big 3 way with a 12 inch woofer.

The last two radios sound good and natural, and yes, sometimes I have to cut the low end, but they sound MUCH better then the 7300.
Even most ssb signals sound MUCH better on the Anan.
Going down to 100 Hz likely would have made a huge improvement...


That's nice, I have a Drake R4B that probably sounds better than either of the radios you mentioned. 

Your continual stream of negative comments based on some arcane specs for AM are pretty silly.  If the Icom is so dam bad in your application then why not sell it?  If I had a radio that I disliked that much I would simply unload it.  I also noticed that you gave it a bad rap in the reviews section.  Just had to say something bad even though the reality is, there is nothing wrong with the rig.  It operates exactly as it was designed to, so sorry if that doesn't suit you.  As smart as you are would have assumed you did some research. Based on what you say about the audio you should have known better than to buy it.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 21, 2017, 12:33:48 PM
I use it for other things, and as a standalone radio for cw and ssb, fidelity does not really matter.
I am just saying they could have made it better, for people who swl and for people who do AM or at least listen, for people who like essb, and for some people who can tell good sound, mostly musicians...

I think its quite good for an Icom, and very good for the price.
Its just a shame Icom and Elecraft ignore all those people.
Part of the advantage of sdr radios is the ability to adjust it to get what you want.
If you want hi fi, you can have it, you can even load profiles for every mode and band to set bandwidth and EQ (and limits) for each.
They can limit the TX and that is fine with me, but why limit the RX?

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 24, 2017, 07:49:11 AM
I lol, Elecraft compares there K3S against the little ole 7300 which must be hurting there sales if they have lower themselves to have a comparo on there site  between these two rigs which are in two way different price ranges. I remember when they tried to compare there K2 against the FT1000MP back around 1998, it was soo funny that they would think top contest station are going to replace there full featured battle ship MP's with a K2, that K2 next to the old MP comparo I did more that a few times with owners of the K2 back then and it lost big time. The down conversion technology brought them back when the K3 came out but like every radio hits the market they have there sales life span and the latest K3S is just not doing it for the new buyers. Its still an ugly radio, still sounds tinny, way to expensive, the control layout and use is very complicated but there performative specs are good but now there will be more competition. Now Icom comes along with the little old 7300 that gives way more usable features, easy to use, spectrum scope which works very well, sdr technology at affordable prices, maybe not a chart topper but lab specs that are good enough that it overshadows many radio's at higher price ranges, very portable station in a small box and lastly the price is less than half of a BASIC K3s. I am sure I am leaving out many other features but just touching on key ones for now, I think the boys on the west coast may have to bring something new to the market if they want to hag with what Icom  has done and compete with the newer designs  from companies like Flex and Anan. BTW I had to try one of these little boxes so a 7300 is on its way.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 24, 2017, 08:55:13 AM
I will also test out using the 7300 antenna tuner in line on the RX side and see how it may improve the use of that radio during a FD site type operation with my other radio transmuting on another band. Icom states that the tuner is in line on RX &TX in there full manual on line, I believe but not sure that has been an option in most of there radio's menu's since the original IC 756 but removed in some of the pro series rigs, using the tuner in line on the RX side did improve its second order IMD numbers in lab tests which would directly help using these radio's at a multi OP FD site.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 25, 2017, 07:36:57 AM
The one feature I am looking forward in testing out with the 7300 is the NB feature since it is not in an IF chain like in the FTDX3000, from what I can gather its inside the SDR part of the radio. From the fellow out west who gets to lab yes almost every Icom radio and I don't mean Sherwood, his review had some comments as far as how impressed he was with the NB feature which did not have any clipping effect on the signal as compare to an IF NB circuit. This feature alone in a suburban environment would be a huge help and many of my friends who have already purchased a 7300 have commented to me how effective the NB and NR features work so I will know in a few days.
The NB on the Yaesu is good on a none crowded band but as soon as someone is 3-5Khz away and over S7 you hear that clipping or blead thru on the IF like any other NB has done in the past, it does in most cases get rid of the noise but adds another in its place when the band is busy. It is an IF or IF DSP noise blanker and like many radio's I have tried  they all suck  when used on a busy band but the digital noise reduction does work better than many of the radio's I have either owned or tried such as Icom 746Pro,756ProIII,Kenwood TS590 and Elecraft K3 all add more of that digital echo effect over the FTDX3K which as some but far more tolerable and the signal doesn't sound like its under water. I am told by friends that the 7300's NR is far better so we will see. For ham's who live out in the country theses features are no big deal but for us who live in urban populated area's these tools make operating far better on a day to day basis.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 25, 2017, 08:20:51 AM
I believe you will be pleasantly surprised with both the NR and the NB in the 7300.  They are both better by far than my previous FT450 and even better then my IC756pro3.  Someone reported that the Noise reduction in his FT891 was better than the Ic7300.  I own a new FT891 now, and while the NR is very good in the Ft891, I don't think it is superior to the NR in the IC7300.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 25, 2017, 10:54:33 AM
Yaesu has come a log way in there implementation of there NR DSP part of there newer radio's and it used to be that Icoms DSP NR was better back in the ProIII days then carried over in the 7600 and the 7410 but when Yaesu improved there FTDX5K, 3K and 1200 thay worked on making the NR better IMO and I havve also seen and heard the NR in the 891 which for what they have them on sale for is an outstanding deal. I was surprised that the TS590 was aching more like the old TS870 as far as the sound of there NR when engaged which tells me they didn't think it had to be any better cause the NR1 and NR2 on the 590 always sounded like an SSB signal was under water. The FTDX3K was a huge improvement over the 590 and K3 I had cause the K3 really was OK on cw but on ssb  it made the voice scratchy and this was after many hours of playing and adjusting.
I may he hyper critical cause of way too many years in the Audio/Pro Audio business when I was younger but if the radio has scratchy audio i will no last long a my QTH. I hope your right cause between urban qth noise and other things around my qth both the NR and NB with superior performance will be a welcome addition here.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on September 25, 2017, 11:40:46 AM
I think the 7300 has the best noise blanker and noise reduction I have tried so far.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on September 25, 2017, 11:57:12 AM
I think the 7300 has the best noise blanker and noise reduction I have tried so far.


I agree.  I thought the NR was "good" on the 756pro3, but the 7300 is way better.  I got the 7300 as a replacement for the FT450at which was my "spare" or backup rig.  It took me about a day to make the 756pro3 my backup rig, and the 7300 my main rig.  It was a little disconcerting that the "main rig" costs less than 1/2 what my "backup rig" did, but it is what it is.   And yes the Ft891 is not a bad rig, and a heck of a value at $579.  It has a LOT of features.  Yeah it is 10 lbs i a 5 lb bag and yeah it has some menu's, but you have to expect that.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on September 30, 2017, 08:49:53 AM
For at least two years I have had no issues with local EMI/RFI at my qth but last month there has been some emi I have been getting which is s5-7 almost peaking every 5khz on 80 meters, it doesnt efect the higher bands but 80 and below its a real pita. Now enters my new radio, a nice little box called the 7300 and between the NR and careful adjustment of the NB it makes copy of weak signal far improved. In this past week since I have taken delivery this little radio has totally amazed me, I have only use the pre amp#1 on 10&6 meters below these bands its more than plenty sensitive, with the RF gain control which BTW works very well as an adjustable attenuation control that works totally different compared to older non sdr rigs is very well thought out. I have never seen that overload indicator come on yet even with a ham 1/2 mile away running 1kw on the same frequency, I feel some of these YouTube video's are FOS showing this radio overload but if you look at there display they have pre amp 2 engaged. The antenna tuner is fast, the pan adapter is slick and can easily be modified in the menus plus the added bonus of the transmit display is slick. What really is impressive is placing the RX next to a real strong signal and tune off just a bit and its like dead quiet on either ssb or cw. I am still learning the radio but I wish I would have bought it sooner. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on October 02, 2017, 05:15:11 PM
I feel that I just don't have enough OP time under my belt yet plus it has not seen the likes of a major contest but this 7300 has totally impressed me, the RX section is excellent, it stands up to strong signals from what I can tell a tad better than my FTDX3000, cw is sweet but so is the 3K with the optional 300Hz roofing filter but the ssb audio is again better than the 3K not by allot but enough to notice it. The transmitter is cleaner and for rag chew and dx it is excellent but for pile up busting lets say the FTDX has that meat grinding pile up busting audio that cuts threw like a sharp knife, Yaesu has always had there speech prepossessing and alc of there radio's set to do the dirty deed during DX contesting but we will see during the CQWWPH in a few weeks. For those fellows that may have had trouble right out of the box just do a factory re set, I had done that with mine cause I could not get any alc action with the stock mic, called the factory and he told me to re set the radio as we spoke on the phone and that was it. Apparently the SDR package has greater affect as far as handling or how it has been shipped and the box was in perfect shape when delivered but for almost two weeks it has been fine. The display is fine but I only wish they would have a way to get it up on a larger monitor cause the N1MM PLus crap display is for hunger using there logging program is ok for contest but that spectrum display feature is a Tonka Toy. When and when I do buy Icoms software for remote operation I try there spectrum display but from what I have seen its not much better, its a dam shame they made no provisions for an external monitor. When I want an external pan adapter I use my FTDX3000 with a Noble Radio PAN3K for hardware plus HRD and HDSDR up on my two 24' monitors in the shack which give Flex like resolution. This is not an entry level radio by no means, the Tx and RX capability is way beyond entry level. For those barking up a tree about the overload issue just turn the Pre Amps off, this radio is plenty enough sensitive on HF without any need of its pre amp stage and only maybe when doing week signal work on 10 or 6 meters that I have placed Pre Amp 1 on plus with a ham down the street less than a mile away who is 40 plus over I have never seen the overload light ever come on.
Now I know why Electraft is running scared and comparing there KX3 plus the K3S against the 7300, I owned a K3 back three years ago and this radio is far nicer to use and listen to for hours on end compared to that hissy distorted audio that came out of that K3 plus that K3 is one ugly duck, yes Icom did it right.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on October 02, 2017, 10:30:53 PM
I feel that I just don't have enough OP time under my belt yet plus it has not seen the likes of a major contest but this 7300 has totally impressed me, the RX section is excellent, it stands up to strong signals from what I can tell a tad better than my FTDX3000, cw is sweet but so is the 3K with the optional 300Hz roofing filter but the ssb audio is again better than the 3K not by allot but enough to notice it. The transmitter is cleaner and for rag chew and dx it is excellent but for pile up busting lets say the FTDX has that meat grinding pile up busting audio that cuts threw like a sharp knife, Yaesu has always had there speech prepossessing and alc of there radio's set to do the dirty deed during DX contesting but we will see during the CQWWPH in a few weeks. For those fellows that may have had trouble right out of the box just do a factory re set, I had done that with mine cause I could not get any alc action with the stock mic, called the factory and he told me to re set the radio as we spoke on the phone and that was it. Apparently the SDR package has greater affect as far as handling or how it has been shipped and the box was in perfect shape when delivered but for almost two weeks it has been fine. The display is fine but I only wish they would have a way to get it up on a larger monitor cause the N1MM PLus crap display is for hunger using there logging program is ok for contest but that spectrum display feature is a Tonka Toy. When and when I do buy Icoms software for remote operation I try there spectrum display but from what I have seen its not much better, its a dam shame they made no provisions for an external monitor. When I want an external pan adapter I use my FTDX3000 with a Noble Radio PAN3K for hardware plus HRD and HDSDR up on my two 24' monitors in the shack which give Flex like resolution. This is not an entry level radio by no means, the Tx and RX capability is way beyond entry level. For those barking up a tree about the overload issue just turn the Pre Amps off, this radio is plenty enough sensitive on HF without any need of its pre amp stage and only maybe when doing week signal work on 10 or 6 meters that I have placed Pre Amp 1 on plus with a ham down the street less than a mile away who is 40 plus over I have never seen the overload light ever come on.
Now I know why Electraft is running scared and comparing there KX3 plus the K3S against the 7300, I owned a K3 back three years ago and this radio is far nicer to use and listen to for hours on end compared to that hissy distorted audio that came out of that K3 plus that K3 is one ugly duck, yes Icom did it right.

All true.
Like I said earlier;  I have an FT-DX3000.  It's a fine radio indeed.
After one year of using my IC-7300 for various digital modes, RTTY contests, SSB, Am rally, etc,
I simply can't find a reason not to love it.   It kicks ass, and it takes a beating, and it does not
break a sweat.

So much fun to use, compared to Yaesu Menu Hell.
Again, the Yaesu is "mighty fine electronics", with the curse of a Moron Engineer
for the "user interface" (sic).

Cheers,

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on October 03, 2017, 02:13:29 PM
My most used modes are SSB and some CW and I find the Yaesu does a fine job but when you go to 75m and either rag chew or DX the NR plus NB are a cut above the Yaesu's 3000. I have never had any issues with the Yaesu menus after all after owning three different 1000MP's this one is easy but I con=m has always shinned on user interface with there menu system e will see w the 7300 does against the 3000 in the first night of the CQWW phone weekend, that will be a good tests as far as which RX hold up. I like both radio's they both have some excellent fine points but this 7300 is one hell of a radio worth every friggin dime you pay for it and with Icom selling 20K world wide that seems to be a winner.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KENNETH on October 17, 2017, 01:03:57 PM
Anyone understand what is his conclusion was? Could not understand all of it.  Thanks 73
 https://youtu.be/9uSGRT_rAS8     (https://youtu.be/9uSGRT_rAS8)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W1BG on October 23, 2017, 07:36:26 AM
I will also test out using the 7300 antenna tuner in line on the RX side and see how it may improve the use of that radio during a FD site type .... {snip}.

Before passing final judgment I think you may discover (as I did) that a legacy external ATU is going to do a better job of isolation.  Our club has historically used legacy (external) tuners in line with every rig at FD as one of the station setup requirements, with the result that we're generally able to use practically any rig in a multi-multi environment with good results, including the 7300. And yes, the more expensive tuners do in fact perform demonstrably better in this "preselector" type of application though as always, YMMV.

73 - Bill
 W1BG
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on October 24, 2017, 07:06:52 AM
If you look threw the You Tube video's you will come across one that uses the internal tuner to help with out of band interference so why not use the internal tuner during operations like FD.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on October 24, 2017, 12:49:45 PM
I think, because of the size and the type of components, the built in tuner has a much lower Q.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: DG2AT on December 02, 2017, 01:50:45 PM
New Firmware 1.20 / Update    2017/11/30

https://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/firm/IC-7300/1_20/
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K4QXX on December 04, 2017, 07:01:18 AM
I think I might have gotten a dud.  I wasn't planning on purchasing a 7300 but they were cheap during the black Friday sales so I picked one up.  It seems I have to roll back the RF gain on almost every band or the OVF (overload) light is on.  Sometimes I have to roll back the RF gain so much it basically makes the S meter useless.  Maybe I am doing something wrong?  I bought this to replace my Yaesu FT-991 for our motorhome but I'm not so sure I will be getting rid of the Yaesu just yet.  The IC-7300 has some really nice features for the money but I couldn't imagine using this radio during field day or with several transmitters close by.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on December 04, 2017, 08:01:17 AM
What do you need the S meter for?

I have never seen the overload light come on, I did not know it had one.
I never use the preamps except maybe on 10 or 6 meters, I have full size antenna's on 80 to 6 meters.

I mostly turn the RF gain down to make the waterfall look better (more contrast) as that is easy and quick to adjust.
If I need to give someone an S meter report, I just turn the rf gain back up for a second.
The S meter means nothing though, it has NO meaning, signal strength should be a signal to noise ratio, not some level reading that depends more on the antenna in use and coax and antenna tuner loss.

Some sdr programs have a signal to noise reading which is useful for telling someone how well you hear their signal.

Sure you don't have a preamp on?

And just were is the overload light on the screen?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K4QXX on December 04, 2017, 08:50:26 AM
The red OVF light is on the top of the screen.  You would know if it was blinking because it is annoying.  Pre-amps are turned off.  If I turn on the pre-amp on 20 meters, the OVF light quits blinking and stays on a solid bright red and signals start to distort.  I have lived at my current QTH for over 21 years and have never had issues with strong RF signals overloading any of the dozen or so radios I have owned over that time.  Maybe I just got a lemon?

If you google this issue, many users have the flashing OVF light.  Many users were able to stop it by turning on the internal tuner but that didn't work for me.  The only way I can get it to stop is to turn down the RF gain quite a bit.  I had to turn up the waterfall gain settings because the waterfall disappeared once I turned down the RF gain.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K4QXX on December 04, 2017, 09:37:47 AM
It looks like some of the OVF flickering issues have been magnified with the new firmware.  I updated the firmware to the new 1.20 version when I got the radio.  Many of the users on the Icom 7300 yahoo group are complaining about the OVF light coming on more often after the firmware update.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on December 04, 2017, 09:39:29 AM
I think I might have gotten a dud.  I wasn't planning on purchasing a 7300 but they were cheap during the black Friday sales so I picked one up.  It seems I have to roll back the RF gain on almost every band or the OVF (overload) light is on.  Sometimes I have to roll back the RF gain so much it basically makes the S meter useless.  Maybe I am doing something wrong?  I bought this to replace my Yaesu FT-991 for our motorhome but I'm not so sure I will be getting rid of the Yaesu just yet.  The IC-7300 has some really nice features for the money but I couldn't imagine using this radio during field day or with several transmitters close by.

I have been through field day, and several contests and the IC7300 works very well, I have even used it while transmitting with my 756pro3 in the same room. 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on February 15, 2018, 07:25:01 PM
I just upgraded to the V1.20 firmware on my 7300 today, works fine, seems that the NR and NB seem more effective and work better yet no DSP changes were done on this upgrade but the OVF does come on  with the SW broadcast station above 7.3 tonight but only when the pre amps were engaged but I never do run any of the pre amps on below 30Mhz but that OVF seems more sensitive then it did on V1.14. The big broadcast station at 7.315 was causing the front end to have a ticking noise above 7.1 but below it was gone, this radio never did that before so I will keep an eye on this cause if there is issues I will revert back to the V1.14 which never had issues at all.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on February 16, 2018, 05:18:56 AM
Someone told me there are down to $900.00 now.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on February 16, 2018, 06:53:20 AM
Someone told me there are down to $900.00 now.



Maybe a used one. New 7300's are currently $1,149 after a $200 mail in rebate (through 3/31/18).
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on February 16, 2018, 09:05:10 AM
Someone told me there are down to $900.00 now.



Maybe a used one. New 7300's are currently $1,149 after a $200 mail in rebate (through 3/31/18).

I believe they were $999 on sale for Christmas, but they have went back up now as you have noted.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on February 18, 2018, 05:26:22 PM
Maybe check the sales around this Monday, it used to be a big sale day many years ago at Harrison radio but that was 30 plus years ago.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: DG2AT on February 27, 2018, 12:06:23 PM
New Firmware:

Version    Version 1.21
Update    2018/02/27

But:

Changes in this version

    Production process improvement.
    No changes in user operations.

??

DL: https://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/firm/IC-7300/1_21/
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on February 27, 2018, 12:14:56 PM
New Firmware:

Version    Version 1.21
Update    2018/02/27

But:

Changes in this version

    Production process improvement.
    No changes in user operations.

??

DL: https://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/firm/IC-7300/1_21/

Hm... have you loaded it yet? :)   I am always leery of loading new software for no user benefit.  Does it fix anything?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: DG2AT on February 27, 2018, 01:01:05 PM
@K0UA

I´m sure it fix anything, but it is looks like ICOM don´t want tell us what...
I´ll try it later that week.

73, Jan
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on March 01, 2018, 06:58:21 AM
It has been 3 months since they released V1.20 firmware, I was a late user on this an to be honest something didn't sound right about this one, the receiver side seemed to get not only the OVF light to come on but I was hearing more problems with near by strong stations. Fast forward to V1.21 which came out this week and almost 3 months after V1.20 so since they didn't go into detail but the release date was only three month between I just had the thought that maybe V1.20 had issues but all I can say is my 7300 is back, the front end is restore to the performance in which it was with the V1.14 firmware. Is it any better well I think after checking it out this weekend during the SSB contest I will find out but soo far it seem to be ok and everything seems to work fine, the Production process improvements that Icom claims have been restore at least from what I can tell thus far. Meanwhile back at Rob Sherwoods ranch testing he seem to find that the second sample 7300 has slowly climes up his RX list, barking at the heals of the IC7610 by only a few db and besting the old Orion II's, not bad for a radio that sells for $1200.
Meanwhile the radio has been out for around two years isn't it time for a MKII model with video out and separate RX antenna input or maybe another radio between the 7300 and the 7610, Icom should strike while the iron is hot, they seem to be on a roll.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VK4XJB on March 02, 2018, 02:42:50 PM
I'll probably try 1.21 at some point but not today. My experience with 1.20 could have been better. I have saved my settings on the sd card. With 1.20 I got as far as if I restored my settings my transmitted audio had a crackle. At the time I wanted to use the radio and not debug a crackle so reverted to 1.14 with my normal settings and the crackle went away.

At this point in time I am content to sit back and wait to see what happens with other people.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on March 02, 2018, 09:58:37 PM
I thought the V1.20 was a bust, I did go back to the V1.14 but did go with the newer V1.21 now, it is better and to think the V1.20 was only out for a month or two month and they they changed it, something was wrong and they fixed it IMO. Been using the radio in the ARRL contest ttonight, the front end seem to hold up very well even next to the big overdriven large contest stations like K3LR and the likes with IMD on there signals way beyond normal that takes 4-5Kc's out but many who I know who run there station much cleaner who are as strong just not wide are well within an ssb bandwidth. You think these contest station may have learned something by now on how to run there radio's but all knobs to the right, its like CB on these weekends.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VK4XJB on March 02, 2018, 10:08:37 PM
Today went better than expected so I do do 1.21 after all. Just finished on 80m, 2 1/2 hours before sunset and with a storm warning the lightning crashes are already 9+10 and the people I wanted to test with are normally s9 this time of afternoon. The only clear signal I have heard so far is a local am station on 864kHz.

Got to speak to one person and he did not complain. At this rate I'll record my own audio using another radio later and have a listen.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VK4FACT on April 02, 2018, 06:11:31 PM
mmmm  ok guys well i haven't noticed anything with v1.20. I got the radio with 1.14 and pretty well updated straight away, so didn't have a chance to notice any difference, but will now upgrade to 1.21 and see if i notice anything.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: HAMNET on April 21, 2018, 07:01:53 AM
My son and I will be attending Hamvention in May. Any word “on the street” about a Mk-2 version of the 7300 to be announced there? I don’t want to buy it at the end of its product cycle. Thank you.

Phil
VA3PGJ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on April 21, 2018, 07:30:26 AM
How much difference between a icom 718 and a icom 7300 is it really night and day
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on April 21, 2018, 08:41:27 AM
How much difference between a icom 718 and a icom 7300 is it really night and day

Yes.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on April 22, 2018, 08:37:11 AM
How much better will my receive be. And I take it transmit will also be better. Thanks  for your time..Have a safe day.73s
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K3GM on April 22, 2018, 03:57:40 PM
How much better will my receive be. And I take it transmit will also be better. Thanks  for your time..Have a safe day.73s

I'm confused..... Back in December, you said this:
Quote from: KC8KTN
Get the best forget the rest.Get a Icom 7300 like i did. Get the extended waranty like I did....WOW...
GOD BLESS EVERYONE.Be safe take heed. You want to hear EVERYTHING and be heard by EVERYONE  get the Icom 7300.10-4 73ss

So which is it?  Do you have a '7300 or don't you?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N0YXB on April 22, 2018, 08:50:29 PM
I noticed that too...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on April 22, 2018, 09:24:29 PM
No i do not . I was going to buy Icom 7300 but washer and dryer took a dump that cost me $1600. So with that being said I am doing ok now but as I was parking my truck in drive way tonight I blew a brake line . Now I have to take in truck tomorrow  to see how much this costs $$$. If it is not one thing it is another . I am trying to stay on the positive side it could have blew when I really needed to stop like before a dump truck collision ect. In the driveway problem is always a good thing I guess. Thanks everyone for your time and advice. I am really close to purchasing Icom 7300 just want to hear it will be worth it that is all. Everyone be safe and have a Joyous and Blessed Day.. 73s
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: AC7CW on April 23, 2018, 09:50:04 AM
No i do not . I was going to buy Icom 7300 but washer and dryer took a dump that cost me $1600. So with that being said I am doing ok now but as I was parking my truck in drive way tonight I blew a brake line . Now I have to take in truck tomorrow  to see how much this costs $$$. If it is not one thing it is another . I am trying to stay on the positive side it could have blew when I really needed to stop like before a dump truck collision ect. In the driveway problem is always a good thing I guess. Thanks everyone for your time and advice. I am really close to purchasing Icom 7300 just want to hear it will be worth it that is all. Everyone be safe and have a Joyous and Blessed Day.. 73s

Clean clothes? Transportation? Where are your values? You get out there and get that radio young man and get on with your life!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on April 23, 2018, 09:55:58 AM
If you cannot afford an Ic 7300, don't buy one.  There are plenty of used older rigs that will do a good job for less money.  BUT if you CAN afford a 7300, then by all means get one as it is a superb radio that performs (in my opinion) above its initial cost. That would be my advice.  But yes clean clothes and reliable transportation would come first in my book too.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on April 23, 2018, 04:21:55 PM
I got the bill on repairing brake line 125.00. Looks like the radio is going to happen some time in May. Everyone have a SAFE Day..73s
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6AER on May 02, 2018, 04:04:07 PM
There have been used IC-7300 radios for sale from time to time now the 7610 has come out for under $1000.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on May 03, 2018, 11:02:24 AM
There have been used IC-7300 radios for sale from time to time now the 7610 has come out for under $1000.

Where did you see a 7610 for under a thousand dollars?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: W6UV on May 03, 2018, 01:18:28 PM
There have been used IC-7300 radios for sale from time to time now the 7610 has come out for under $1000.

Where did you see a 7610 for under a thousand dollars?

This is what he meant:

"There have been used IC-7300 radios for sale from time to time (now the 7610 has come out) for under $1000."
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6AER on May 03, 2018, 01:46:45 PM
There have been used IC-7300 radios for sale from time to time now the 7610 has come out for under $1000.

Where did you see a 7610 for under a thousand dollars?

This is what he meant:

"There have been used IC-7300 radios for sale from time to time (now the 7610 has come out) for under $1000."

My Bad, thank you.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on May 06, 2018, 03:20:04 PM
Anyone want to trade a Elad fdm duo for my 7300?
I want to try something different.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: NI8R on May 06, 2018, 03:25:28 PM
did u get my email?

greg ni8r
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on May 06, 2018, 03:40:00 PM
I dont think so.
I was trying to do a trade with someone else but I get no response to my emails...

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 13, 2018, 09:41:22 AM
I HEARD there is going to be a 200.00 dollar discount at H.R.O durning Dayton week.A great Deal I am going to get one...Everyone have a Blessed Day and Be Safe ...73ssszzzz.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on May 13, 2018, 11:17:27 AM
So just wondering if KC8TKN is mentally unstable or something.  He said he bought an IC-7300 last year, amazing. ::)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 13, 2018, 12:08:11 PM
Si I am wondering  if KA4DPO can read??. Go a couple of pages back you can see what I posted. Everyone have a Joyous Day and be Safe.73zzzzssss.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N0YXB on May 13, 2018, 02:18:10 PM
So just wondering if KC8TKN is mentally unstable or something.  He said he bought an IC-7300 last year, amazing. ::)

With an extended warranty, as I recall.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on May 13, 2018, 02:37:00 PM
Si I am wondering  if KA4DPO can read??. Go a couple of pages back you can see what I posted. Everyone have a Joyous Day and be Safe.73zzzzssss.

I'm sure every day is a slap happy day for you.  Say, you know how crazy people find their way out of the woods??

They take the psycho path. ;D  Maybe you should start walking.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on May 15, 2018, 08:10:55 AM
I received my new Elad fdm duo last night.
Sure is not as user friendly as the 7300, but I knew that.
Doing a trade was like pulling teeth, so I just got a new one.

One thing I noticed is that the latency through the radio is more then my Anan through my computer.
The latency of the duo through the computer is really bad because of the usb port buffers and so on.
The latency through the duo (radio) is just a tad bit longer maybe then the 7300 but its very close.
Audio is very good though (out of the radio), goes down to 50 Hz I think, unlike the 7300...
Think of the duo as an Elecraft with half the buttons and very good audio, not for everyone!

I do not like the jump between 500 Hz and 1000 Hz filter on CW, I tend to like about 700 Hz.
They COULD have made it variable.....the 7300 has the twin pass band tuning which makes it variable...
To top it off, the 7300 is cheaper then the Elad, maybe by $200.00 at Dayton...and you get 100 watts and an antenna tuna.



Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on May 15, 2018, 09:21:36 AM
Its hard to find a perfect radio under $1500 but the 7300 seems to have a fair amount of the boxes checked off, again there are no perfect radio, just some that come close. If audio is what you want as far as bandwidth how does the 590SG compare?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on May 15, 2018, 09:36:27 AM
Never had one.
Kenwood makes a good radio, but they disguise it as a vcr.

Elad did a good job on the duo, its nicely packaged and works well, but I guess it is not built by hams.
A few more knobs and buttons and it would be fantastic.
 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K3GM on May 15, 2018, 11:14:14 AM
Rumor from someone at the Dayton Hamvention setup has it that the '7300 will be sub $1K this weekend.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on May 16, 2018, 11:00:00 AM
You cant really go wrong with the 7300 at a sub $1000.00 price, that tops even used radios...!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6MST on May 17, 2018, 08:45:53 AM
Rumor from someone at the Dayton Hamvention setup has it that the '7300 will be sub $1K this weekend.
With the mail-in rebate and discounts right now at all the major retailers, it already is!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 17, 2018, 09:57:09 AM
Thanks to everyone who has given me great advice. I just ordered the radio from the H.R.O Milwaukee store. 1249.95 minus a 100 .00 dollar rebate=1149.95 . I purchased the 2 yr warranty also in this price 149.95. It should be here by Monday or Tuesday. If i figure out how to post a picture I will. Again thanks to all.  H.R.O is having this sale for 4 days...If you just want the radio it will cost you 999.95 after 100 dollar Icom rebate...Have a great day and be safe.73s
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6MST on May 17, 2018, 10:39:04 AM
Thanks to everyone who has given me great advice. I just ordered the radio from the H.R.O Milwaukee store. 1249.95 minus a 100 .00 dollar rebate=1149.95 . I purchased the 2 yr warranty also in this price 149.95. It should be here by Monday or Tuesday. If i figure out how to post a picture I will. Again thanks to all.  H.R.O is having this sale for 4 days...If you just want the radio it will cost you 999.95 after 100 dollar Icom rebate...Have a great day and be safe.73s

What other goodies did you get to bring the total to $1250? I'm about to order one and am looking for ideas  ;D
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 17, 2018, 11:10:33 AM
I purchased the 2 year extended warranty. Radio comes with 1 year warranty and 150.00 adds abother 2 years for a total of 3 years. I did not get anything else.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on May 17, 2018, 11:32:23 AM
Why anyone would consider a lesser used rig when a  brand new 7300 is now under $1000 is a real head scratchier to me.  If there ever was a radio "worth the money" thats it.    A 7610 for under $3100 seems pretty good too.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on May 17, 2018, 12:09:14 PM
As a very happy owner of one of the first 7300s, I heartily recommend the German FA-AS Automatic Antenna Switch. It uses the radio's commands and selects up to 4 antennas (plus transverter), all automatically.
Typical (excellent) German quality.

I find myself going for the 7300 more than the 7610, which is awesome in it's own right........

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on May 17, 2018, 01:53:00 PM
As a very happy owner of one of the first 7300s, I heartily recommend the German FA-AS Automatic Antenna Switch. It uses the radio's commands and selects up to 4 antennas (plus transverter), all automatically.
Typical (excellent) German quality.

I find myself going for the 7300 more than the 7610, which is awesome in it's own right........

ron
N4UE


That's interesting.  What is it that draws you to the 7300 over the 7610?  Right now I have a 7600 and I was thinking of getting a 7610 but I am just a casual ham these days and I keep asking myself if I really need that much radio, I may buy a 7300 instead if it is worth it.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on May 17, 2018, 02:36:43 PM
Well, I have lots of radios, 22 Drakes for example. The 7300 just 'works' for my casual operating style. I've had a long line of Icom radios, on HF, I've gone from a 745 to a 761 to the original PRO, to the 7300 and lastly the 7610.
I've done numerous side-by-side tests of the receivers in the PRO, the 7300 and the 7610. I have a quiet location (most of the time) but with a recent drought, came some horrible power line noise on 6M. As it does every summer.
The NBs in the 745 and 761 (when using VHF converters) could handle the noise, but the PRO had ZERO affect. My ONLY complaint with the old girl......
The NBs in the 7300 and 7610 are amazing. They make the buzz just 'go away'. I'm still using just the default settings!!!!

I 'think' I prefer the PRO's display best. Maybe just because I'm used to it. The 7300 has a smaller screen, but it's visibility is excellent. I enjoy the waterfalls of the newer radios.
The 7610 has the ability to use an external monitor, even though I rarely use it. The RC-28 remote is cool, but functionally pretty limited. Being an OF, I DO enjoy the 7610's screen.

The addition of the FA-AS to the 7300 adds the ability to select between HF and 6M instantly and automatically.

I have a large 6M antenna at 105' fed with 7/8" hardline. Doing an A=B=C reception comparison on weak 6M beacons shows the 'ole PRO to be just the smallest possible bit behind the 7300 and 7610. The beacons are waaaay down into the noise. The APF of the 7610 makes a large improvement in copy.

The 7300 is just a HUGE 'fun for the buck' radio. Despite the teeth gnashing of the 'purists' on the .io Groups, I put the 'upgrade' fan into the 7300 and not looked back. :)

Just my $.02 worth....

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K7JQ on May 17, 2018, 02:52:02 PM
I own an 8 year old 7600, and a 1-1/2 year old 7300. Mostly a contester (favorite CW), my side-by-side comparisons of the two under the same conditions have mostly proved to be identical in performance. The only "feature" (besides size) the 7600 has over the 7300 is APF, which I rarely ever used. The 7300 has a much brighter and higher resolution display, with a much faster responding spectrum scope/waterfall. At $1,000 during Xenia, the 7300 is a no-brainer steal. I'm pondering selling the 7600 for "whatever" (not much value anymore...maybe $1,400?), and going with another 7300. IMO, the only reason for springing for a 7610 is if you want/need a second built-in receiver and/or the larger display. Sherwood numbers are pretty close between the two. Good times for inexpensive, high-performance radios.

73,   Bob K7JQ
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on May 17, 2018, 08:46:01 PM
Well, I have lots of radios, 22 Drakes for example. The 7300 just 'works' for my casual operating style. I've had a long line of Icom radios, on HF, I've gone from a 745 to a 761 to the original PRO, to the 7300 and lastly the 7610.
I've done numerous side-by-side tests of the receivers in the PRO, the 7300 and the 7610. I have a quiet location (most of the time) but with a recent drought, came some horrible power line noise on 6M. As it does every summer.
The NBs in the 745 and 761 (when using VHF converters) could handle the noise, but the PRO had ZERO affect. My ONLY complaint with the old girl......
The NBs in the 7300 and 7610 are amazing. They make the buzz just 'go away'. I'm still using just the default settings!!!!

I 'think' I prefer the PRO's display best. Maybe just because I'm used to it. The 7300 has a smaller screen, but it's visibility is excellent. I enjoy the waterfalls of the newer radios.
The 7610 has the ability to use an external monitor, even though I rarely use it. The RC-28 remote is cool, but functionally pretty limited. Being an OF, I DO enjoy the 7610's screen.

The addition of the FA-AS to the 7300 adds the ability to select between HF and 6M instantly and automatically.

I have a large 6M antenna at 105' fed with 7/8" hardline. Doing an A=B=C reception comparison on weak 6M beacons shows the 'ole PRO to be just the smallest possible bit behind the 7300 and 7610. The beacons are waaaay down into the noise. The APF of the 7610 makes a large improvement in copy.

The 7300 is just a HUGE 'fun for the buck' radio. Despite the teeth gnashing of the 'purists' on the .io Groups, I put the 'upgrade' fan into the 7300 and not looked back. :)

Just my $.02 worth....

ron
N4UE

Thanks Ron, that was a useful response.  I might just keep the 7600 and get a 7300 instead of a 7610.  Like I said I don't chase paper or contest anymore so I'm just not convinced I need a 7610 even though I like it and I can afford one.  I can use the extra money on other things.

Again, thank you.
John.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 18, 2018, 09:12:18 AM
Icom 7300 just showed up.. WOW. H.R.O. are AWESOME.  I am a 2nd shifter now I have to go in with my new toy sitting here. Everyone BE SAFE ..73ss
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on May 18, 2018, 09:29:57 AM
You know, all specs aside, the 7300 is just a joy to use. Ease of operation and intuitive controls.  Would I love to have a 7160, yeah I would. Can I justify it? probably not. Some people have looked at the low knob count on the face of the 7300 and said to themselves, "I don't want to be digging down into menus all the time".  Well it doesn't work like that , sure there isn't a knob for everything, but coupled with the ease of the touchscreen and the use of the multi knob that is context sensitive, the operating system is very easy to use and to rapidly make changes. As I have said many times, the 7300 is a real bargain. I still like my 756pro3, but the 7300 is the main rig.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KA4DPO on May 18, 2018, 09:40:53 AM
I own an 8 year old 7600, and a 1-1/2 year old 7300. Mostly a contester (favorite CW), my side-by-side comparisons of the two under the same conditions have mostly proved to be identical in performance. The only "feature" (besides size) the 7600 has over the 7300 is APF, which I rarely ever used. The 7300 has a much brighter and higher resolution display, with a much faster responding spectrum scope/waterfall. At $1,000 during Xenia, the 7300 is a no-brainer steal. I'm pondering selling the 7600 for "whatever" (not much value anymore...maybe $1,400?), and going with another 7300. IMO, the only reason for springing for a 7610 is if you want/need a second built-in receiver and/or the larger display. Sherwood numbers are pretty close between the two. Good times for inexpensive, high-performance radios.

73,   Bob K7JQ

That's the thing for me Bob, I really don't need a second receiver and it doesn't look like the 7610 gives you the option of just a single RX on screen.  Besides that, having looked at the specs the 7300 is more than good enough for the kind of operating I do these days.  It just looks like a better fit for me.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N6YFM on May 18, 2018, 10:13:33 AM
I own an 8 year old 7600, and a 1-1/2 year old 7300. Mostly a contester (favorite CW), my side-by-side comparisons of the two under the same conditions have mostly proved to be identical in performance. The only "feature" (besides size) the 7600 has over the 7300 is APF, which I rarely ever used. The 7300 has a much brighter and higher resolution display, with a much faster responding spectrum scope/waterfall. At $1,000 during Xenia, the 7300 is a no-brainer steal. I'm pondering selling the 7600 for "whatever" (not much value anymore...maybe $1,400?), and going with another 7300. IMO, the only reason for springing for a 7610 is if you want/need a second built-in receiver and/or the larger display. Sherwood numbers are pretty close between the two. Good times for inexpensive, high-performance radios.

73,   Bob K7JQ

That's the thing for me Bob, I really don't need a second receiver and it doesn't look like the 7610 gives you the option of just a single RX on screen.  Besides that, having looked at the specs the 7300 is more than good enough for the kind of operating I do these days.  It just looks like a better fit for me.

You can't go wrong.  The 7300 has been my favorite for the last 2 years.
Even though I just ordered a Flex so I can learn more about them, no one will ever get my
7300 away from me.  I beat the crap out of it during RTTY contests and it just laughs at me.
It sounds amazing on SSB, great TX audio too, and makes digital modes really fun.
For digital modes, the audio passband spectrum scope is more flat and level than almost
any other rig I have tried, which makes the waterfall and spectrum much nicer for digital
modes and also prevents power drop off at both ends of the audio passband when doing
JT-65 or FT-8.   You will love the rig.  It is the best bang for the buck that Icom ever did.

Cheers,

Neal
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on May 18, 2018, 10:45:37 AM
And since they are selling for about $1000.00 maybe, used they are under $800.00!
Beer and pizza money!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KX2T on May 18, 2018, 02:31:37 PM
I am almost tempted to buy another but I am sure they are working on a MKII model...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K6JH on May 18, 2018, 03:38:28 PM
DX-Engineering today:
IC-7610 = $2999.95
IC-7300 = $999.95 (after $100 mail-in rebate).

Dang! Decisions, decisions...

Considering all I have now is a TS-520S and an FT-847, I can have a lot of HF fun with either. I'd like both, but that seems kind of excessive!
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on May 18, 2018, 05:23:03 PM
DX-Engineering today:
IC-7610 = $2999.95
IC-7300 = $999.95 (after $100 mail-in rebate).

Dang! Decisions, decisions...

Considering all I have now is a TS-520S and an FT-847, I can have a lot of HF fun with either. I'd like both, but that seems kind of excessive!

As much as I would like to have a 7610, and I do see the advantages of the 7610 over the 7300, IF I were you, I would buy the 7300 and put the rest of the money into antennas.  The 7300 will be such a big step up from what you have now you will be in "hog heaven" probably for several years.  But on the other hand you could get the 7610 if you heart can stand the excitement.  I would visit the cardiologist first though to see if your heart is healthy enough for a rig like this.  :)  Good luck with whichever you decide.. You going to be a pretty dang happy guy either way.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 19, 2018, 12:08:52 AM
I am gettting feed back in radio hen I key it up. I also here myself in speaker like talk back..
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 19, 2018, 07:57:55 AM
Monitor button was on. Also a ham on 80 meters helped. This radio is awesome. It is pretty self forwardeven easy for the cb captain ;D ;D ;D ;D

Everyone have a Blessed day. Be Safe..73s
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on May 19, 2018, 09:42:34 AM
You have 'monitor' turn on. Read the Manual....

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 20, 2018, 10:35:43 PM
How do you get the spectrum analyzer scope to have that squiggly green line like i see on you tube video's while monitoring the band for action. Thanks all..73s
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KM4TSN on May 21, 2018, 03:03:51 AM
I believe this is what you are looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY3T91AHQko
I hope it is allowed to post the link, if not please delete and sorry.
73's KM4TSN
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 21, 2018, 08:32:57 AM
Thanks that was the ticket .. Again thanks .. This is the best site. Everyone have a great day and be safe..73s
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 25, 2018, 04:17:12 PM
Wow this radio Icom 7300 is Awesome. Does anyone have any Awesome settings on the radio that makes it really work to its best potential. Also does anyone have any sugestions on Ham radio deluxe settings as far as color schemes and sliders at the bottom of screen .Any sugestions greatly appreciated. Everyone have a safe and Blessed weekend.73s

My current Ham Radio deluxe color scheme is a blue and fluorescent green looks pretty good i have tried most of the different schemes in the program. Also i seen a You Tube video where a ham had his icom screen on a 55 inch screen Awesome. Is there a special software needed to put  the radio screen on an external display. Again thanks.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N4UE on May 25, 2018, 04:36:41 PM
Chuck. Welcome to the Icom 'fan-boy' group.
I have one of the first 7300s and one of the first 7610s (ser #0024).
My first suggestion, is to join the (free) Icom 7300 Group at .io.
You can also find LOTS of great videos on YouTube.
Lastly, you cannot run the receiver of the 7300 like an old superhet. I've been a ham for 57 years and a retired EE.
However, SDRs are a new game in town. You will have to learn something different.
Learn to use the RF Gain/ATT and you will be thrilled. There are some truly dumb-ass 'reviews' on eHam where guys are complaining about 'noise' or the "Overflow light", when all they had to do was turn down the RF Gain.
This radio has WAAAY more RF Gain than you will ever need. Hence, the comments about 'noise'..... Especially if you have a less than perfect antenna/location.

Adam and Rob on the Icom Groups have more technical experience than I EVER will have, when in comes to both theory and practical experience with the 7300, and SDRs in general. Rob has TWO!!

ron
N4UE
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 25, 2018, 11:23:32 PM
What is the Icom group at .Io.

When I run my amp it seems to interfere with my laptop and ham radio deluxe ??????.
Thanks
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 26, 2018, 12:19:07 AM
Never  Mind . Thanks. I signed up allready. Thanks. 73s

Eham Forums are the BESTUS
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 26, 2018, 05:54:46 AM
Hello All
For some Goofy reason now when I start up Ham Radio Deluxe it keys up my Radio???.It was not doing this when I started this morning all of a sudden now it does.. And every time I use my amp it messes with ham radio deluxe It also messes with my usb mouse never seemed to have this issue before with my Icom 718 now with this new radio issues minor issues but issues. Any suggestions..
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N0YXB on May 26, 2018, 09:03:26 AM
Hello All
And every time I use my amp it messes with ham radio deluxe It also messes with my usb mouse never seemed to have this issue before with my Icom 718 now with this new radio issues minor issues but issues. Any suggestions..

RF in the shack perhaps?
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on May 26, 2018, 12:59:20 PM
Hello All
For some Goofy reason now when I start up Ham Radio Deluxe it keys up my Radio???.It was not doing this when I started this morning all of a sudden now it does.. And every time I use my amp it messes with ham radio deluxe It also messes with my usb mouse never seemed to have this issue before with my Icom 718 now with this new radio issues minor issues but issues. Any suggestions..

Check in the 7300's menu if you are using the RTS and DTR pins for anything. Also in HRD on the startup page, make sure RTS and DTR pins are unchecked.  This is where you keyup proble is coming from.

I use the RTS pin for CW keying in the radio when I use N1NM software in CW contests, but I make sure that HRD does not have that RTS pin box checked.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 26, 2018, 09:26:56 PM
Thanks. It is not keying up now. But now i have two displays on HRD program i understand it pertains to the split function but I am not using the split function and it was not like this before. Does anyone know if i can delete the 2 nd display on HR D.... Thanks Everyone... 73s
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 27, 2018, 05:06:27 PM
Hello All
Every time I use my amp it screws with HRD program the amp makesit not functional i have to reboot it..I  had talked to HRD tech last month with issues with my old Icom 718 and HRD. He had mentioned a better usb to serial port cable for radio Icom 7300  with good shielding has anyone heard of this cable . Not the usb cable  TO CIV PORT cable. The reason this subject came up with the HRD tech i told him I was close to buying a Icom 7300. Thanks for all the advice so far..Take care all be safe. 73s.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: VK3TEX on May 27, 2018, 05:21:46 PM
Try some Rf suppression clip on Toroids on both sides of your USB cable. If it reduces the RF feedback a little, try some more on the cable until it gets rid of it all.

Whenever you change radio or cabling in your shack these things may creep in dosen't matter what radio you use. High power makes it even worse. Quality in amplifiers also makes a difference.

Best of Luck, these things can be a pain in the A$$ to cure....

73, VK3TEX

Les.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on May 28, 2018, 10:39:14 AM
I found it does not take ut it is just the radio itself causing this issue it is not the amp alone . I am going to try toroid coil.

Here is what I found...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-black-5mm-Cable-Clip-On-RFI-EMI-RFI-Noise-ferrite-Core-Toroid-Case/162302314653?epid=7003974733&hash=item25c9f8c89d:g:krcAAOSw44BYPlim
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on June 01, 2018, 11:20:09 AM
I got new cable seems to fix radio messing with HRD. Before new cable just the radio alone just 50 watts would mess with HRD. Now that problem is fixed I can even run the Amp no issues with HRD except on 40 meters. I also orderd toroid coils when they arrive i will place them on new cable. The new cable fixed 95% of the issues i was having. Thanks to everyones advice. Be safe.73s
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on June 02, 2018, 07:39:51 AM
Does anyone know of other programs such as HRD  that controls the Icom 7300. Is HRD  the best program or are there better ones. Thanks for any Advice. 73s
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K5TED on June 02, 2018, 04:21:07 PM
What is your shack/antenna configuration? You should not be having all these problems with RF in the shack at 100w unless something is seriously wrong...
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3HKN on June 03, 2018, 09:39:56 AM
Icom 7300 Question:

If I want to notch out a signal can I do it by touching on the screen or do I have to go to menus and dial in the notch?
Dick  N3HKN
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KC8KTN on June 05, 2018, 09:17:03 AM
Hope this helps.. Take Care be Safe 73ss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npXR8NUApoM
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: DG2AT on July 22, 2018, 01:43:26 PM
New Firmware: v1.30

http://www.icom.co.jp/world/support/download/firm/IC-7300/1_30/

Changes in this version

    A SET MODE item is added to expand the transmission passband width for the SSB data mode up to "100 to 2900 Hz".
    A SET MODE item is added to make the USB SEND/USB Keying function active immediately after USB port connection. The Menu structure is changed accordingly.
    Other performance improvements and bug fixes
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on July 22, 2018, 03:32:47 PM
Icom 7300 Question:

If I want to notch out a signal can I do it by touching on the screen or do I have to go to menus and dial in the notch?
Dick  N3HKN


There are multiple pieces to this. There is a notch hard button on the front panel.  One single press is auto-notch.  Good for SSB operation.  It will find and notch, multiple carriers in the passband automatically.  Useless for CW, or digital modes as it tries to notch them out!

Next press of the button is Manual notch. Good for all modes.   If you press and hold it will bring up the mini menu and you will have some choices as to width, and  frequency of the manual notch.  press each item on the menu to change the parameter with the multi knob.  However If you wish to have a visual indicator to help to tune and notch out that annoying signal, bring up the Audio menu first and look at the lower left hand display scope, and locate the carrier and move your "notch" over the carrier and watch (and hear)  it disappear into the black hole.

It is satisfying to see and hear that offensive carrier disappear into total oblivion.  :)
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: KM6PHH on October 04, 2018, 01:52:10 AM
I read the specs and several reviews.  Several mention the antenna tuner, but I've not been able to find out the actual specifications.  Anyone know the range that the antenna tuner can handle?

My plan was for a 66 foot OCFW and was hoping to use it on 10, 20 and 40 meters. 



 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N3HKN on October 04, 2018, 04:38:50 AM
I/Q Signals --  IC7300?

I would like to use HDSDR with the 7300 but from what I can see there is no way to get the I/Q signals it  needs to display the spectrum??
Dick  N3HKN
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: N2DTS on October 04, 2018, 05:04:04 AM
3 to 1.
And it seems more limited then other 3 to 1 tuna's.
My Flex has a 3 to 1 tuna and it tunes almost everything, the 7300 would tune very little.
Ignore the built in tuna and buy a good one, auto or manual.


I read the specs and several reviews.  Several mention the antenna tuner, but I've not been able to find out the actual specifications.  Anyone know the range that the antenna tuner can handle?

My plan was for a 66 foot OCFW and was hoping to use it on 10, 20 and 40 meters. 



 
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on October 04, 2018, 10:03:17 AM
I read the specs and several reviews.  Several mention the antenna tuner, but I've not been able to find out the actual specifications.  Anyone know the range that the antenna tuner can handle?

My plan was for a 66 foot OCFW and was hoping to use it on 10, 20 and 40 meters.  



 

In normal mode (100 watt output) 3:1 SWR is all it will do.  You can sort of "fake it out" by tuning at a frequency that is no more than 3:1 then you can move out of the 3:1 range with the VFO as long as you don't do a retune it will continue to work with a small SWR rise  on a frequency that the tuner will not tune. Does that make sense?  Kind of a hard concept to verbalize. BUT it will work.  

If you go into Emergency mode (50 watt power limited) it will tune much broader loads, some of mine I believe are about 7:1 but kinda hard to prove as my meters don't go that high. But much more than 3:1 for sure.

You have to choose Emergency mode from the menu, and reboot the transceiver.  Whole switch-over process takes about 10 seconds.

I hope this helped. Oh, your OCFD should work in normal mode without any problem.
Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: ROGERDUROID on October 20, 2018, 01:41:19 PM
I have a new 7300 and I like it, but one thing bothers me.  The TX indicator in the upper left side is always visible and get brighter red when in transmit.  Why would not they have it be GREEN and say RX when rx mode and go Red TX only when in transmit?

Anyone found a way to get rid of it or change that?   The Green/Red TX/RX LED next to the tuning knob works as you would expect.

Title: RE: ICOM IC-7300
Post by: K0UA on October 20, 2018, 02:37:39 PM
I have a new 7300 and I like it, but one thing bothers me.  The TX indicator in the upper left side is always visible and get brighter red when in transmit.  Why would not they have it be GREEN and say RX when rx mode and go Red TX only when in transmit?

Anyone found a way to get rid of it or change that?   The Green/Red TX/RX LED next to the tuning knob works as you would expect.



Well, that indicator is NOT the tx/rx led.  As you know they are near the tuning knob.  That indicator also will have a dotted line around it when you are "out of band" indicating that transmission is not possible.