eHam
eHam Forums => Youth => Topic started by: W3TTT on March 21, 2017, 07:13:50 AM
-
What age can a child be trusted with a hot soldering iron? What would the group recommend?
-
I was doing it at 10 with minimal supervision. the occasional yowch was a trainer supreme for flailing fails. I have no permanent scars.
supervision consisting of occasionally burning something up in a carefully controlled manner is needed. some kids take to tools quickly, some become "golden screwdriver" operators. how I would do it if I had kids is when junior came over with "whatcha doin?" I would exaggerate my procedure and do it slowly as a demonstration. when I got to a noncritical area, I would sneak the little nipper in by holding a heat sink, or the solder. eventually get a little gutless noncritical project started and let him have a couple licks at it.
remember, rosin is an irritant, molten metal hurts, and lead is a hazard. this would be a good time to get a little air cleaner on the bench, intake towards the soldering station.
-
I turned my grandkids loose with soldering irons when they were 10 years old. We put together a little blinking LED Christmas tree kit. No major problems. They caught on quickly.
-
When I was little -- long ago-- woodburning kits were popular gifts. I was given one when I was about 6 years old. About the same as a soldering iron. Miracle I didn't burn down the house.
http://www.woodburning.com/
-
"Eight Wildly Irresponsible Vintage Toys"
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/4/7/95447.jpg?v=1)
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/6/6/95466.jpg?v=1)
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/7/2/95472_v1.jpg)
-
A kid can be trusted as soon as he has the maturity and coordination to use a soldering iron safely. That could be 5 years old or 50. I built my first Heathkit when I was 9 or 10. A VTVM. I already had a scope. My father wasn't competent with anything mechanical or electrical. I learned it all on my own. I made a lathe with old washing machine parts and brazed stuff by sticking it into the burner on the gas water heater or the furnace. My parents never knew most of the stuff I did. Some was fairly dangerous but I'm not dead yet and I still have all my appendages.
I would have liked one of those glass blowing kits. Maybe they still sell one.
-
"Eight Wildly Irresponsible Vintage Toys"
Those darn chemistry sets! I had a couple of them. Neither one had the chemical that I wanted . . . Potassium Nitrate!
::) (innocent smiley)
-
Old enough to recognize that one skin burn, one scorch mark on the work bench, and one hole in a shirt or pair of pants with high polyester content from a flying hot solder droplet is enough. Could be as young as seven or maybe 12. [Wear safety glasses!]
-
"Eight Wildly Irresponsible Vintage Toys"
Those darn chemistry sets! I had a couple of them. Neither one had the chemical that I wanted . . . Potassium Nitrate!
::) (innocent smiley)
when I was a kid, they sold saltpeter at the drug store... open shelf... K2N*10H2O. a little light cooking out and it's dehydrated. a little charcoal, a little sulfur, and it kept one of my friends busy for hours. nowdays, doctor hands you a prescription, you might only be able to fill it at the hospital pharmacy.
-
When they can grasp (no pun intended) this important concept:
(http://www.kg4rul.info/SmellsLikeChicken.jpg)
-
I started at age 9, although Dad supervised at first. My XYL didn't start until 14, but she had obtained the highest licence class when she was 16, when I met her at the radio club. Now 41 years ago and 34th wedding anniversary this year....
-
When they can grasp (no pun intended) this important concept:
(http://www.kg4rul.info/SmellsLikeChicken.jpg)
RF burns smell surprisingly like chicken, too!
-
"Eight Wildly Irresponsible Vintage Toys"
Those darn chemistry sets! I had a couple of them. Neither one had the chemical that I wanted . . . Potassium Nitrate!
::) (innocent smiley)
when I was a kid, they sold saltpeter at the drug store... open shelf... K2N*10H2O. a little light cooking out and it's dehydrated. a little charcoal, a little sulfur, and it kept one of my friends busy for hours. nowdays, doctor hands you a prescription, you might only be able to fill it at the hospital pharmacy.
Potassium nitrate is sold without restriction for small quantities at most garden supply stores, where two forms are available:
--Fertilizer with an NPK rating of 13-0-44
--Post stump removal products are totally or primarily potassium nitrate.
If you have time and access to manure, ashes and urine, you can make your own using the pre-industrial "French method".
Guano from bat caves is a reliable substitute.
A solution of potassium nitrate works well as a cleaner for aluminum antenna masts or elements.
-
"Eight Wildly Irresponsible Vintage Toys"
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/4/7/95447.jpg?v=1)
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/6/6/95466.jpg?v=1)
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/7/2/95472_v1.jpg)
I remember a mineral kit that I had. It came with an actual piece of Uranium rock!
-
"Eight Wildly Irresponsible Vintage Toys"
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/4/7/95447.jpg?v=1)
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/6/6/95466.jpg?v=1)
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/7/2/95472_v1.jpg)
I remember a mineral kit that I had. It came with an actual piece of Uranium rock!
I just noticed something strange about the chemistry set. The three square enveloppes on the right have been photoshopped. The top one says "Rolling Papers". I can't make out the middle one, but the bottom one says "Latex C----m.
-
Like several that have responded, I too started out early building radios (soldering) and still enjoy it. However, may I share an experience that puts the original question in perspective. For 11 years I was an instructor at a camp for 4Her's that was held during spring break. The kids were all ages elementary to high school. Initially there were around 200 to finally around 400 kids and their adult leaders at camp along with the staff of around 30. The camp was electricity and electronic based. My part was with two electronic projects which the kids and their leaders had to build. One was a Radio Shack VOM kit and the other was a temperature sensor that connected to the VOM. This later project was of my design and featured point to point wiring. All kids and leaders in each camp session built both kits. We taught some basics, discussed safety in using a soldering iron and other tools, and then they went to work. The staff carefully watched over the build process encouraging and answering questions. The staff promise was that if an individual completed their kit, that they would leave with it working properly even if the staff had to troubleshoot, which in some cased meant a complete rebuild. We made sure that before each kit was initially used that it was checked for obvious issues. If it didn't work only the changes needed for it to work along with any safety issues found were made. We didn't try to pretty up the wiring. With the exception of a very few kits each year where the individual made no effort to complete the kit, all kits left camp working. Over 11 years some consistent observations were made. The young kids were the most eager to build the kits. They rarely made mistakes in installing parts because they asked lots of questions if they didn't understand what to do. The majority of their kit problems were due to poor soldering or solder bridges. The high school kids were more interested in talking to each other and they didn't ask questions. Maybe the presence of the younger kids made them reluctant to ask questions. Their kits had lots of misplaced parts and they too had soldering issues. The adult leaders also didn't ask questions but many of them completed their kit with minor soldering issues. However, each year there were several adults that spent the whole class time complaining about how difficult the two kits were for kids to work on and that it was dangerous to allow the kids to use a soldering iron and wire clippers. The young kids, after completing their kits spent the rest of the week talking about how much fun they had. If you talked to an older kid in private, some of them actually said they enjoyed the projects. During the 11 years, no one was ever seriously injured. Yes, a few briefly found the hot end of the soldering iron but most were very careful. Bottom line, get kids involved early, teach them proper use of all tools, be present to oversee them working and to answer their questions. It will be something that they will remember for years to come. And, we probably will gain more that a few hams in the process.
-
Now is the time for all young kids to wield a soldering iron.
Kids these days are too protected leading to more injuries
and weak adults.
When I hurt myself, my mother said, 'stupid you!'
He will burn and learn.
73 and wear your seat belt.
Kraus
he time for all yo
-
What age can a child be trusted with a hot soldering iron? What would the group recommend?
My son is currently 6 and has been handling a soldering iron since a few weeks before his 5th birthday. I supervise him anytime the iron is on the table and started out with "this end is hot enough to hurt you for a very long time" and "don't breath close to the iron, let the fan carry the smoke away."
Everything has worked out swimmingly. After a couple of small non-functional PCBs with no real circuit on them (just a lot of practice with components) was a great start, then he dove into the ever popular blinky light. Since then, he's built things with an arduino, made a simple robot, and assembled a pixie transceiver.
I think it all depends on their fine motor skills and their ability to be patient and listen.
-
Now is the time for all young kids to wield a soldering iron.
Kids these days are too protected leading to more injuries
and weak adults.
When I hurt myself, my mother said, 'stupid you!'
He will burn and learn.
73 and wear your seat belt.
Kraus
he time for all yo
Spot on.
Learned to drive on a Massey Ferguson 135 tractor coupled to straw trailer aged 8 - later same year out "turbotilling" fields for barley seeding (unsupervised) on a John Deere 2020. Didn't have cabs or even roll-over frames in those days.
Learned about mains elctricity age 5/6 when I stuck an electricians test screwdriver into mains socket (errrm, bit too far) to see if test light on it worked - big blue flash and big black scorch mark up the wallpaper.
What's the problem...........
-
I was ten and lived to tell about it. Didn't have a problem with the iron in respect to burns, but I develop a bad habit of shaking the iron to clear extra solder. [Wear safety glasses!] Once a small speck went in my eye. Not sure who was more concern me or the family. They immediately rush me a doctor.
I was lucky the doctor said my damage would clear up in a few days. He had a time removing the small solder particle. Don't think its magnetic. By the time I got out of his office I never wanted to return again and learned soldering safety.
Use a wet sponge to clean the iron, Don't have anything that will burn near the iron tip be it human or organic.
1) allow the iron to come to temperature 2) clean it on the wet sponge 3) tin it lightly 4) have a clean working area 5) touch the item needing soldered then apply the solder next remove the solder remove the iron from the object ---- always in that order. a proper soldered connection is always shinny.
73 de Stan , AK0B
-
What age can a child be trusted with a hot soldering iron? What would the group recommend?
You're serious?! Tut, tut, tut. Are you from the new thinking that everything can be regulated and all fit into ONE box?! How long is a piece of string? Only the parents of the child can decide that. Hopefully you're not the parent asking a question like that ::)
-
Let's be fair. I'm a parent and I have an idea about when my kids are ready for something, and I can experiment and see if they're ready or not. But I also work with groups of children that are not mine, sometimes without knowing exactly what to expect.
Let's say a radio club was going to visit an elementary school and offer some activities. A soldering project could be one, but at what age would one need to consider alternatives, like "snap-circuits?"
In the fall, the local high-school hosted a "STEM" night where the elementary schools from the county gathered to show-off some of the things they were doing in their STEM curricula. I saw some projects that could have benefited from soldering. Some of them really needed welding. But these were not high-school students. Unfortunately, the high-school students were preoccupied with over-priced 3D printers. They could have been accomplishing so much more with CNC machines instead of wasting their time and the district's money with tiny plastic blob makers. But I guess it's safer than wood and metal shop. Pity.
Generally speaking, I'd say around 10 years old would be a safe bet for an introduction to soldering. This is an age where it is practical to expect a child to have developed the fine motor skills needed to do a competent job safely and also to have the interest, focus, and concentration to learn a few meaningful basics like avoiding cold solder joints and identifying resistor and capacitor values. I've used this kit:
https://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Practical-Soldering-Project-Kit/dp/B0002LUAL6/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1512940481&sr=8-3&keywords=soldering+kit+elenco
This should be a slam-dunk for middle school students and one could expect them to move on to bigger kits and projects.
Children should always wear eye protection when soldering and I wouldn't include any large objects to solder (like a PL-259 to RG-213). Let them get good at 1/4 watt resistors.
-
Seems like 10 is a pretty common age in these replies but I believe there is no hard and fast rule and it depends on the child. My father, now in his 90s, is a retired heavy industrial equipment maintenance machinist. I remember learning to use hand tools in elementary school. Did I cut and burn myself? Yes, all were very minor, and sometimes pain is very good reinforcement for safety lessons forgot or not learned. By 10 or 11 I was using a drill and jigsaw under dad's supervision. As my experience grew, dad supervised less closely until he was confident that I could use a tool safely without supervision. As I look back dad introduced me to a tool when he felt I had the manual dexterity to operate use properly, and the mental maturity and judgment to know how and when to use a tool safely.
Do I chock a car's wheels, or disconnect power from electrical appliance or machinery when I'm working on them? Yes, these and many other safety lessons were drilled into me by dad and my high school shop teachers. These and many other lessons were written by injuries and sometimes death. Dad's work entailed real danger, and failure to disconnect power from a machine was the reason one of dad's co-workers was crushed to death.
10 might seem to be a good rule of thumb to start, but I think you need to assess the child's manual dexterity and mental maturity.
Thanks dad for teaching me how to be safe.
-
As a kid 1960's they had wood burning kits for 6,7,and 8 year old's
-
My 11 year old daughter, then 10, soldered together a QRP antenna tuner kit with no issues. Teach 'em young then enjoy sharing the enjoyment of electronics with them. I totally now trust my daughter with an iron.
-
Oh, I think that younger amateur radio operators can handle more complicated things;
Home-made black-holes.
https://sciencing.com/build-hole-science-fair-project-7695677.html
No longer use the excuse "the dog ate my homework".
If a teacher doesn't believe you, just remember that a black hole is convenient for getting rid of all sorts of pesky problems.
-
"Eight Wildly Irresponsible Vintage Toys"
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/4/7/95447.jpg?v=1)
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/6/6/95466.jpg?v=1)
(http://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/7/2/95472_v1.jpg)
I remember a mineral kit that I had. It came with an actual piece of Uranium rock!
I just noticed something strange about the chemistry set. The three square enveloppes on the right have been photoshopped. The top one says "Rolling Papers". I can't make out the middle one, but the bottom one says "Latex C----m.
Catheters ?
-
::)
Well, when I was 12 years old.. I started..
then when I was using my soldering iron, just like this one...i didn't look and I did not pick it up by the handle,
but by the hot element..
after holding in your had for a second or so....You learn really quick not to do that again..
(http://www.hamlogbook.com/solderingiron.jpg)
Kevin Rea
Lancaster, CA
K6REA
-
spelling correction...
after holding in your hand for a second or so..
-
"Eight Wildly Irresponsible Vintage Toys"
Those darn chemistry sets! I had a couple of them. Neither one had the chemical that I wanted . . . Potassium Nitrate!
::) (innocent smiley)
I had a chemistry set, complete with a vial of liquid mercury! Somehow, I survived.
-
I had a chemistry set too. I made lots of gunpowder with it.
-
As others have said: as soon as they're responsible and mature enough.
My son first wielded a soldering iron at 5 years of age (with my supervision, of course). His class has experienced interest in kit building and they're 5-9 years of age.
-
I started tinkering with soldering when I was like 8. I even fixed a flaw on a kit Norelco radio that had kept it from working, when I was like 9. Dad was slightly irked I did it when a babysitter was watching us, but, it solved the problem my my radio. ;D
-
When they can grasp (no pun intended) this important concept:
(http://www.kg4rul.info/SmellsLikeChicken.jpg)
I want that shirt, where did you get it?
-
When they can grasp (no pun intended) this important concept:
(http://www.kg4rul.info/SmellsLikeChicken.jpg)
I want that shirt, where did you get it?
That exact shirt is no longer available but this is another source:
https://colamaga.com/product/if-it-smells-like-chicken-youre-holding-it-wrong-t-shirt-cl/ (https://colamaga.com/product/if-it-smells-like-chicken-youre-holding-it-wrong-t-shirt-cl/)
Disclaimer: I have no connection with this company.
-
Thank yoU!
-
Learning to solder properly and safely is a step on the road of learning to TIG weld. And not many things can compare to the joy of finishing a good TIG weld.
-
"Eight Wildly Irresponsible Vintage Toys"
Those darn chemistry sets! I had a couple of them. Neither one had the chemical that I wanted . . . Potassium Nitrate!
::) (innocent smiley)
Why ever would you need potassium nitrate? Mwwaaaa!!!!
Dr. Franken Kraus
-
:D
Seven year old Sophie completes her first soldering project!
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.qrz.com/t/w3ttt/sophie_builds_first_kit_age_7.jpg)
-
I remember soldering microphones when I was seven or eight & I learned from watching the CB Techs who worked on our gear.A touch in the wrong spot reminds you where NOT to touch quickly.It is far simpler than welding & not brain surgery. ;D 8)
Clayton
W4KVW
-
get them out of diapers first...
-
Right after they learn to play with matches and gasoline.
-
My nephew, we now call him 1 eyed William, was probably too young at 6 years old to attempt to build a simple code practice oscillator.
My brother and sister in law still won't talk to me after that fiasco.
-
A kid can be trusted as soon as he has the maturity and coordination to use a soldering iron safely. That could be 5 years old or 50. I built my first Heathkit when I was 9 or 10. A VTVM. I already had a scope. My father wasn't competent with anything mechanical or electrical. I learned it all on my own. I made a lathe with old washing machine parts and brazed stuff by sticking it into the burner on the gas water heater or the furnace. My parents never knew most of the stuff I did. Some was fairly dangerous but I'm not dead yet and I still have all my appendages.
I would have liked one of those glass blowing kits. Maybe they still sell one.
Wow , we have similar stories! My father was the same way.
I had been building plastic model kits from 7 or so, got interested in all kinds of mechanical and electronic devices about the same time. Might have been around 9 when I was allowed to use a solder gun and mess with HV electronics. I'm still here too!
I guess it depends on how the kid handles those dangerous things whether to let them do it unattended.
-
With proper supervision you can start a child at 6 to 8 years of age , but you must be very watchfull that the follow directions correctly.
It is the discretion of the teacher/ instructor to evaluate whether they can safely handle a hot iron.
But it is the same with any tools
There is something to learn from mistakes but an injury or painful burn can put them off forever.
So safety is a paramount topic to teach in any skill.
-
Oh, I think that younger amateur radio operators can handle more complicated things;
Home-made black-holes.
https://sciencing.com/build-hole-science-fair-project-7695677.html
No longer use the excuse "the dog ate my homework".
If a teacher doesn't believe you, just remember that a black hole is convenient for getting rid of all sorts of pesky problems.
well that's scary, because millennials can't even make change without a computer or calculator.
When the black hole gets out of control they will stand there with a look like a deer in headlights! :o ::)
-
Consider a soldering gun, safer on a couple of levels. Enjoy woody ok
-
When they are old enough to not lick the tip to see if it's hot !!!!
I was using a table and circular saw at 10 years old building a boat with my dad watching.
It's all about the who the child is.
Some "adults" I wouldn't allow near a soldering Iron! And I know why they only where slip-On shoes..;D ;D
-
I have my 8th grade Robotics 2 students using a soldering iron. The first soldering project is a little LED christmas tree. For most of them it is the first time they have ever soldered.
A few weeks ago I was helping a student soldering some leads on to an eight way rotary switch. I was holding some wires for him and told him to be careful not to burn me. Of course he did. It was nothing bad. In fact I was able to say, "look at what the iron is touching."
I do instruct them that there is no food or drink between soldering and washing hands.
Obviously, it isn't the main part of the class. The core of the class is an introduction to electronics and programming with the Arduino, soldering is just a small part of it. This is after the Robotics 1 class.
Robotics 1 is generally 6th or 7th grade. The core of that class is a set of lessons that have them using the Lego EV3 robot. One thing I find a bit odd is that I am using the same robots and textbook that is used at the local community college in its introduction to robotics course. Of course, I also use the same book, and lessons in my 7th and 8th grade introduction to Photoshop class as the community college uses.
Back to soldering, I generally start it at 8th grade. However, in a small number of cases, I have gone down to 6th grade (I am thinking of a particularly apt 6th grader who started in robotics 2, bu that is rare).
-
I was in 5th grade about 11 years old when I built and soldered my first Heathkit. A DX 60 transmitter. Didn’t have any problems with the soldering.
-
Between 8 to 10 years old a child should have learned enough to pay attention to safety instructions.
Although simple electronic projects are recommended especially for learning theories.
Here is where an interesting teacher is most valuable.
Once the basics of theories are absorbed then natural curiosity takes over.
-
My daughter was 5 years old when she soldered her first DIY receiver.
https://www.us7ign.com/?p=454
https://youtu.be/7Pv15A3b84g
-
My daughter was 5 years old when she soldered her first DIY receiver.
https://www.us7ign.com/?p=454
https://youtu.be/7Pv15A3b84g
As said previously , it depends on the child!
I have a very bright 8 year old grandson who solves Rubik cubes in one minute 30 seconds, does origami and algebra, etc, etc.
However, I wouldn't trust him to cross the street by himself. He has absolutely no situational awareness.
I went with push-in wire protoboards!
-
I waited until they learned how to play with matches and gasoline.
-
"Eight Wildly Irresponsible Vintage Toys"
Those darn chemistry sets! I had a couple of them. Neither one had the chemical that I wanted . . . Potassium Nitrate!
mix in sugar,. made rocket fuel, and lots of smoke...
::) (innocent smiley)
-
As said previously , it depends on the child!
I have a very bright 8 year old grandson who solves Rubik cubes in one minute 30 seconds, does origami and algebra, etc, etc.
However, I wouldn't trust him to cross the street by himself. He has absolutely no situational awareness.
I went with push-in wire protoboards!
Fully agree. When I was 5 years old, I set fire to my great-grandfather's house by playing with matches under his wooden wall. My children didn't understand why I played with matches at all. They were already playing with their phones.