eHam

eHam Forums => Long Wave / Medium Wave => Topic started by: N8FNR on January 24, 2020, 03:22:50 PM

Title: DRM Consortium asks FCC to adopt DRM for MW
Post by: N8FNR on January 24, 2020, 03:22:50 PM
The DRM Consortium is asking to have the FCC allow DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) to be used as way of digitizing the AM band. I was reading recently that India has switched to DRM for MW and using only 35 transmitters they can cover the entire country with just those so it is very efficient. Seemingly moving to DRM looks like a good idea.

The problem with moving to DRM is that every AM receiver in the country would become obsolete. AM is still one of the primary ways that information is delivered during an emergency or power outage. If the power is out one can sit in their car and at least have some information available. There are around 110,000,000 cars in the US and I bet that 99% of them have an AM/FM radio. I cannot imagine very many people would be willing to replace the radios in their cars where I bet the the majority of AM listening is done. How many people would buy a DRM radio for use in their home?

If AM stations adopt DRM this would seem like a great way for them to go out of business for lack of a way for people to listen to them.

https://www.radioworld.com/tech-and-gear/allow-drm-for-digitizing-the-am-band
https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/the-power-of-digital-radio-during-emergencies

Zack
N8FNr
Title: Re: DRM Consortium asks FCC to adopt DRM for MW
Post by: K9RJ on January 24, 2020, 08:29:59 PM
It is interesting to see how many new cars do not have AM radio available. I believe this includes all electric vehicles. If AM broadcasters don't do something soon, they will be putting themselves out of business. When I do cross-country drives, I want AM radio.
Title: Re: DRM Consortium asks FCC to adopt DRM for MW
Post by: W3DBB on January 25, 2020, 04:58:17 AM
The big thing is radio broadcasting is being replaced by streaming. The mode or band used for broadcast won't matter. In this locality there is an interim strategy whereby the local AM stations simulcast on the FM broadcast band. At some point down the road the AM station is turned off. The day will come when the FM outlets are no longer financially viable and they in turn will be switched off. Its a progression of changes and I grew up listening to AM rockers in the 1960's. I find myself seldom tuning around on the AM BCB, and then just to see who's still BCing and what programming is available. I never listen to AM in the car or the house. Many of the aftermarket automobile AM receivers are built on a single IC with commensurate performance. On the other hand my wife's 2014 Honda Pilot has an excellent AM receiving setup. I still like listening to FM in the car but almost never listen to it in the house. I don't mess with Internet streaming on my iPhone even though this is where it's at for younger people. Free over-the-air broadcasting paid by advertising is on the way out. They're still in much better shape than the print media.
Title: Re: DRM Consortium asks FCC to adopt DRM for MW
Post by: K1QQQ on January 25, 2020, 08:31:30 AM
Yes it is a worldwide trend. Invent a format and get rich selling receivers/transmitters. One can push the fantastic advantages with nobody to counter with another opinion.

They did digital testing on AM radio in the US a few years back. AM coverage was terrible. They still are plugging HD radio. I listen to HD FM here (88-108 mhz) and hardly any FM station on the dial is even using it. Then if it gave a station 'another' channel to broadcast SURE it's going to stay ad free. HD AM (530-700 khz) is simply a disaster as far as coverage.

Radio Mondale ? I am not the expert !!! Does it give great enhancement ? (technical facts why ?) Allot of times they say 'switch to' it is only some of the broadcasting. What is the plus ? Fantastic better sound ? Superior coverage area ? How ? Ever hear the technical ? I believe it can reduce the ups and downs of signal fading but when a shortwave signal goes down to zero what do you hear ? All I know is when they push all this exciting stuff somebody is making big bucks.

I am not even sure if HD radio is 'digital' but why has it not taken over the AM/FM Broadcast bands being so superior ?

Yes. Shortwave radio where everybody needs to buy a special receiver. Then often it offers tracking to who is listening.

Amateur Radio. DRM,Fusion,D Star, Echolink. It is so superior that only crazy people would not dump analog.

-- not the expert !!!!


PS..I was one of the original subscribers to that Radio World. It had interesting articles for the broadcaster. It kind of slowly started showing what it is really about. It is nothing but a rag to push DIGITAL.
Title: Re: DRM Consortium asks FCC to adopt DRM for MW
Post by: 2E0SVE on April 04, 2020, 12:01:36 PM
What to my understanding is that the data standards for DRM are not useful enough.  DRM could be extremely useful and transmit text or web pages in the same way othernet does.  This could be very useful for remote areas when AM can reach.  Receivers could cache this and say present on a small LCD disply making the devices very useful, say in the event of an emergency, for general use where by one does not have to be tied to the internet.  But I do not believe these things are specified or standardized enough.  A generation of DRM receivers could be produced while these standards settle wasting much.  It is a shame that DMR has not had more interest!
Title: Re: DRM Consortium asks FCC to adopt DRM for MW
Post by: W7XTV on April 04, 2020, 01:08:14 PM
The DRM Consortium is asking to have the FCC allow DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) to be used as way of digitizing the AM band. I was reading recently that India has switched to DRM for MW and using only 35 transmitters they can cover the entire country with just those so it is very efficient. Seemingly moving to DRM looks like a good idea.

The problem with moving to DRM is that every AM receiver in the country would become obsolete. AM is still one of the primary ways that information is delivered during an emergency or power outage. If the power is out one can sit in their car and at least have some information available. There are around 110,000,000 cars in the US and I bet that 99% of them have an AM/FM radio. I cannot imagine very many people would be willing to replace the radios in their cars where I bet the the majority of AM listening is done. How many people would buy a DRM radio for use in their home?

If AM stations adopt DRM this would seem like a great way for them to go out of business for lack of a way for people to listen to them.

https://www.radioworld.com/tech-and-gear/allow-drm-for-digitizing-the-am-band
https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/the-power-of-digital-radio-during-emergencies

Zack
N8FNr

The problem is that the IBOC/HD system has been the FCC-approved system for close to 20 years, and DRM is incompatible with it.  No way will the FCC change systems for no reason.
Title: Re: DRM Consortium asks FCC to adopt DRM for MW
Post by: KM1H on April 04, 2020, 02:22:52 PM
I listen to AM almost exclusively in our 18 Fusion and 19 Camry.
Title: Re: DRM Consortium asks FCC to adopt DRM for MW
Post by: N8FNR on April 08, 2020, 01:30:07 PM
The big thing is radio broadcasting is being replaced by streaming. The mode or band used for broadcast won't matter. In this locality there is an interim strategy whereby the local AM stations simulcast on the FM broadcast band. At some point down the road the AM station is turned off. The day will come when the FM outlets are no longer financially viable and they in turn will be switched off. Its a progression of changes and I grew up listening to AM rockers in the 1960's. I find myself seldom tuning around on the AM BCB, and then just to see who's still BCing and what programming is available. I never listen to AM in the car or the house. Many of the aftermarket automobile AM receivers are built on a single IC with commensurate performance. On the other hand my wife's 2014 Honda Pilot has an excellent AM receiving setup. I still like listening to FM in the car but almost never listen to it in the house. I don't mess with Internet streaming on my iPhone even though this is where it's at for younger people. Free over-the-air broadcasting paid by advertising is on the way out. They're still in much better shape than the print media.

Yeah you could say that AM radio is in trouble. WABC in NYC sold by Cumulus Media for only $12.5 million last year. I bet that it is worth even less now. It was bought by billionaire supermarket mogul John Catsimatidis. https://nypost.com/2019/06/27/john-catsimatidis-acquires-77-wabc-radio-for-12-5-million/

Zack N8FNR
Title: Re: DRM Consortium asks FCC to adopt DRM for MW
Post by: K4KYV on May 19, 2020, 11:01:43 AM
Yes, DRM is being adopted in countries all over the world, but for some inexplicable reason, the U.S. always seems compelled to do things a different way.  Maybe that's what they call "American Exceptionalism".  In the U.S. the FCC has apparently carved in stone its commitment to so-called "HD radio", a proprietary digital system developed by iBiquity corporation.

Proponents of DRM claim it's more efficient and works better than the HD/iBiquity, plus broadcasters and receiver manufacturers wouldn't have to pay an annual licence fee to use open-source DRM technology.  Limiting the broadcast industry to proprietary technology results in a monopoly of questionably legality; $$$ talks.

The common-sense approach (how often does the FCC ever go that route?) would be to allow volunteer stations to experimentally broadcast in DRM or HD, and see which actually works better, while allowing those stations to simulcast in analogue AM if they wanted to.  After a certain peroid, the system with overall superior performance would be mandated as the digital standard, but if the HD system were chosen, in the exchange for the privilege, any continuing licensing fees following the initial purchase of hardware would be prohibited.

The AM band is already far too cluttered with little toy 250/1000 watt local stations stations, many of which don't even reach the city limits, and function essentially as satellite repeaters with few listeners. Letting those  stations go dark would clear up the band for a smaller number of higher powered stations with regional daytime and nation-wide night-time coverage, and leave room in the band for experimental digital broadcasting. 

The public are not going to rush out and purchase new receivers just to pick up the new digital broadcasts. Any form of digital would have to be phased in over a period of years or even decades, just like the expanded 1600-1700 kHz "expanded" AM band was phased in over the 1980s, 90s and 2000's.
Title: Re: DRM Consortium asks FCC to adopt DRM for MW
Post by: RENTON481 on November 20, 2020, 05:56:12 AM
They did digital testing on AM radio in the US a few years back. AM coverage was terrible.

In the all-digital tests done with the AM station in WA state the coverage was actually quite good.

As for DRM, the problem is no receivers, and no one in the US knows what DRM is. Consumers are probably aware of HD radio on FM, so HD radio at least has a little bit of visibility. DRM has absolutely none, aside from maybe a few thousand SWLs and hams in the US who are aware of it -- most of those probably have never decoded it.