eHam
eHam Forums => Long Wave / Medium Wave => Topic started by: N8FNR on October 29, 2020, 07:55:16 AM
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https://swling.com/blog/2020/10/fcc-authorizes-am-radio-stations-to-operate-using-all-digital-broadcast-signals/
https://radioinsight.com/headlines/200439/fcc-approves-voluntary-digital-operation-for-am/
https://www.radioworld.com/tech-and-gear/digital-radio/fcc-approves-all-digital-option-for-am
There are 273,000,000 vehicles in the US and I bet that 90% of AM listening is done in cars. How many people do you think will replace their car radio to get HDradio? I bet that figure will be very low as few will want to go the trouble and expense of doing that. Everyone here is a serious radio enthusiast. Now let me ask if you will replace your vehicle radio with a HDradio? I will not spend money on this for our 2013 van. I have never met anyone who put a HD receiver in their car when HDradio was being promoted in the past. Most people who listen to AM do that in their cars during their drive time. If their favourite news station were to go all digital I bet that most would say the hell with getting a new radio and just listen on their phones. It might be cheaper to stream rather than buy new radios.
It does look as if half of all cars made after 2019 do have HDradio built in BTW, http://www.insideradio.com/more-than-half-of-new-cars-now-equipped-with-hd-radio/article_055842a0-3f18-11e9-af44-abb5c736f701.html
Zack N8FNR
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Even though DRM would likely be superior it does make sense for the FCC to pick HD Radio as apparently half of all cars now sold in the US are equipped with HD Radio receivers.
http://www.insideradio.com/more-than-half-of-new-cars-now-equipped-with-hd-radio/article_055842a0-3f18-11e9-af44-abb5c736f701.html
Here are the brands; https://hdradio.com/get-a-radio/new-cars/
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Big problem wit digital AM in the broadcast band.
The AM band has a station signal band width of 10 KHz max. The signal to noise ratio needed for that digital bandwidth will be about 23 dB above the noise. Most AM listeners never hears that signal level unless the station is in your home town.
This looks like a solution in search of a problem.
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What does this change mean for my old classic AM receivers? How long before stations totally stop broadcasting in AM?
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This sucks for me as I love MW DXing and actually utilize it to fall asleep to music out of Reno, Pocatello, Window Rock and Modesto to name off some. Heck I use the two big HF roof antennas for this more than for HF. This is because MW music doesn't exist here in San Francisco-even FM blows here.
What does that do to weaker adjacent stations? Because those ones I mention mostly are alongside locals and I have to put the PBT walls up.
Also, ya think this means they ALL will switch over or just some?
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This is being done to increase the amount of revenue for stations.
With digital, you can have multiple streams on each station. Like digital terrestrial TV did for us.
Now, you can sell commercials to multiple "channels". More sales = more revenue!
Nevermind the fact that radio is dying. I work on multiple job sites and ONE person uses a radio. He only listens to extreme right wing conservative talk shows.
Not one other person, out of the multiple job sites spread across the state use a radio. The stream off their phones. I admit, I do the same thing. 15 bucks a month and I don't have to listen to a single commercial. When I don't have signal on the phone I can still listen to the music I've marked for offline listening.
As the radio listening public ages and dies, less and less people will want to even listen to AM radio. It's a dying demographic.
Wonder what happened to the buggy whip manufacturers years ago?
--Shane
KD6VXI
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Have to admit using IHEARTRADIO for free on my phone is far better then an actual radio. Plus I can get stations from all over.
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My flip phone is still in the dinosaur age so Im forced to use a real radio....BUT I havent broken that phone or dropped it in the toilet yet as so many do with these big clunky PITA versions.
I also dont listen to a radio when Im around HV, machine tools, under a vehicle, climbing ladders and towers, etc so that just leaves me radios sitting all over the house, garages, trailers out back, etc when my feet are on the ground. Cheap enough for nice ones at yard sales or my collection of restored boatanchors and wooden consoles with PP tube audio.
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MW listening in the US is 30% car, 30% home and 30% at work.
There are probably enough HD radios in new cars to provide an audience. The problem is that those newer radios also have bluetooth, streaming capability, etc., which are probably more popular than a digital AM station -- or even an FM station, for that matter...
The new rule won't change anything for the vast majority of stations, which, right now, are probably hoping they can stay on the air due to economic conditions, much less worry about buying new digital broadcast equipment. Maybe in 20 years we'll see a handful of digital AM stations nationwide, maybe a couple hundred analog AM stations, and the rest will be static.
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I do use AM radio for listening to talk radio and for sports. It costs too much to listen to my sports teams on their web site or through MLB.com. I need AM radio.
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I do use AM radio for listening to talk radio and for sports. It costs too much to listen to my sports teams on their web site or through MLB.com. I need AM radio.
MLB Gameday Audio is $20 per season for all teams and all games, with no local blackouts. TuneIn Plus is $7 per month, and includes MLB Gameday Audio as well as most major college football and basketball. The IHeart and Radio.com are free. Basic TuneIn is also free.
NHL games are free on each team's flagship station or via TuneIn. AFAIK, the NBA games are free via their own app. The NFL has always been problematic. And greedy. They used to be on TuneIn Plus but not this year.
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According to a survey a month or so ago, almost 30 percent of US adults were having trouble paying for necessities.
It makes free, over-the-air radio look even more appealing. Doesn't mean HD radio will benefit, of course, at least until the overall economy improves.
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I've got a fairly basic car -- VW Jetta diesel with the "Premium" package, which just means alloy wheels instead of steelies, sunroom, heated seats, and a Fender branded (but actually a Panasonic) head unit. Hell it's even a manual transmission, so definitely not a luxury sedan or anything like that. 2013 model year. It has HD radio, no GPS nav or Apple / Android audio. Yes, it can pick up digital AM station already. Not sure if it's WBZ in Boston or WTAM in Cleveland, but in the winter and with good enough conditions I've definitely seen the HDRadio logo light up and a noticeable difference in audio quality. It's still not quite FM broadcast band levels, but way clearer than standard AM! The good part? It rides on top of the currently existing analog AM signal so if the HD lock is lost, it falls back just the way it was before! Unless this is a new type of MW AM compression technique, it seems that maybe it was already being piloted by current stations and is just now getting accepted as some sort of standard?
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This is being done to increase the amount of revenue for stations.
With digital, you can have multiple streams on each station. Like digital terrestrial TV did for us.
Now, you can sell commercials to multiple "channels". More sales = more revenue!
Nevermind the fact that radio is dying. I work on multiple job sites and ONE person uses a radio. He only listens to extreme right wing conservative talk shows.
Right now, most FM's with HD channels have no commercials on their HD channels whatsoever -- the exceptions being FM's which are simulcasting AM sister stations on one of their HD channels. So, even with that 'multiple channel' HD option that FM stations have had for at least ten years now, it just hasn't turned out to be a big moneymaker, commercial-wise.
Also, the jury's out as to whether all-Digital AM's could have multiple channels, without present-day HD AM receivers having to have their software updated. On another forum some station engineers discussed the probability of HD2's on AM HD and the general consensus would be that it would be difficult to implement for various reasons.
So, the idea that AM radio is aiming for HD to sell commercials to "multiple channels" is a non-starter. If an AM stations goes all-Digital, they will just have the one channel to work with.
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This is being done to increase the amount of revenue for stations.
With digital, you can have multiple streams on each station. Like digital terrestrial TV did for us.
Now, you can sell commercials to multiple "channels". More sales = more revenue!
Nevermind the fact that radio is dying. I work on multiple job sites and ONE person uses a radio. He only listens to extreme right wing conservative talk shows.
Not one other person, out of the multiple job sites spread across the state use a radio. The stream off their phones. I admit, I do the same thing. 15 bucks a month and I don't have to listen to a single commercial. When I don't have signal on the phone I can still listen to the music I've marked for offline listening.
As the radio listening public ages and dies, less and less people will want to even listen to AM radio. It's a dying demographic.
Wonder what happened to the buggy whip manufacturers years ago?
--Shane
KD6VXI
"He only listens to extreme right wing conservative talk shows."
can uou name just ONE??
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According to a survey a month or so ago, almost 30 percent of US adults were having trouble paying for necessities.
What survey and what are the details?
I doubt many skip their booze and butts.
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So might I ask what any of the discussion so far about AM Digital Broadcasting has to do with amateur radio operations on the 2200 and 630 meter (135 and 472 kHz) amateur bands?
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Quote
According to a survey a month or so ago, almost 30 percent of US adults were having trouble paying for necessities.
From KM1H
What survey and what are the details?
I doubt many skip their booze and butts.
No reply and no surprise either. Some dont like facts getting in the way of their spouting off.
Carl
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According to a survey a month or so ago, almost 30 percent of US adults were having trouble paying for necessities.
What survey and what are the details?
I doubt many skip their booze and butts.
https://www.cbpp.org/blog/latest-data-1-in-3-adults-having-trouble-paying-expenses
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Quote
According to a survey a month or so ago, almost 30 percent of US adults were having trouble paying for necessities.
From KM1H
What survey and what are the details?
I doubt many skip their booze and butts.
No reply and no surprise either. Some dont like facts getting in the way of their spouting off.
Carl
You think everyone checks into this forum on a minutely basis?
Here's another link. The one third having difficulty is mentioned in the fourth paragraph.
https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RRA308-3.html
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Digital or not, the problem with HD AM BCB is lack of bandwidth. There just is not much OF it on AM. To support HD will require more bandwidth or a CODEC with lots of compression and minimal ECC, which means a very good SNR will be needed to receive it without VERY annoying atrifacts popping up. Data caching to eliminate dropouts will be tough - not a lot of extra bandwidth to do it.
Cellphones have so much bandwidth in comparison that they can accept coded audio transmissions in bursts, cache them and then play back the material at a lower rate. Most dropouts are simply smoothed over by the caching and ECC process, so reception stays pretty good for OTP music until the network data signal gets very bad.
Brian - K6BRN
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You think everyone checks into this forum on a minutely basis?
Apparently you do since you are a certified troll.
Your links are a laugh also since they both belong to the Looney Tunes left.
No need to reply either as you are now permanently cataloged.
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Apparently you do since you are a certified troll.
Your links are a laugh also since they both belong to the Looney Tunes left.
No need to reply either as you are now permanently cataloged.
I gave you your answer and then you call me a troll. Nice one.
The links I posted include data from the US Census bureau when it was under a right wing administration. And right now the economy is in a downturn due to covid.
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Carl:
"Your links are a laugh also since they both belong to the Looney Tunes left. No need to reply either as you are now permanently cataloged" (Etc.)
Still trash talking and throwing out veiled threats, I see. Crude, rude and abusive, as usual. Seems much more ... ummm ... "fringe" that anything RENTON said. And after all that time locked inside to reflect, too. I thought you'd mellow. Maybe not.
So. Why not just move on and let it be. You two disagree over something that makes little difference - why make an issue of it. There's no value proposition to it, for anybody.
Brian - K6BRN
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El Rushbo??? ;D
Charlie
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This is being done to increase the amount of revenue for stations.
With digital, you can have multiple streams on each station. Like digital terrestrial TV did for us.
Now, you can sell commercials to multiple "channels". More sales = more revenue!
Nevermind the fact that radio is dying. I work on multiple job sites and ONE person uses a radio. He only listens to extreme right wing conservative talk shows.
Not one other person, out of the multiple job sites spread across the state use a radio. The stream off their phones. I admit, I do the same thing. 15 bucks a month and I don't have to listen to a single commercial. When I don't have signal on the phone I can still listen to the music I've marked for offline listening.
As the radio listening public ages and dies, less and less people will want to even listen to AM radio. It's a dying demographic.
Wonder what happened to the buggy whip manufacturers years ago?
--Shane
KD6VXI
"He only listens to extreme right wing conservative talk shows."
can uou name just ONE??
Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michael Savage....
You won't hear how most Americans really feel watching The View.
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So might I ask what any of the discussion so far about AM Digital Broadcasting has to do with amateur radio operations on the 2200 and 630 meter (135 and 472 kHz) amateur bands?
Surely you might ask. No one is going to answer your silly question, but go ahead and ask.
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I noticed when test driving a Tesla (did not buy) it has no AM and no SiriusXM. I live in Utah and when driving in the middle of nowhere, I like listening to something current. I have wondered if the EVs use switch-mode power supplies and the resultant RFI would make listening on AM impossible.
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Why not address all of this to the FCC? They are the ones who authorized the change!
And they DO listen to Congress.
-Mike.
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I have wondered if the EVs use switch-mode power supplies and the resultant RFI would make listening on AM impossible
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Wonder no more. YES, this is precisely the reason a Tesla does not have an AM receiver in it. That and the listening public have lost interest in AM broadcasting. AM radio is a dying thing. Kind of like land line telephony. Might not live long enough to see it gone completely, but it is going.
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This is being done to increase the amount of revenue for stations.
With digital, you can have multiple streams on each station. Like digital terrestrial TV did for us.
Now, you can sell commercials to multiple "channels". More sales = more revenue!
Nevermind the fact that radio is dying. I work on multiple job sites and ONE person uses a radio. He only listens to extreme right wing conservative talk shows.
Not one other person, out of the multiple job sites spread across the state use a radio. The stream off their phones. I admit, I do the same thing. 15 bucks a month and I don't have to listen to a single commercial. When I don't have signal on the phone I can still listen to the music I've marked for offline listening.
As the radio listening public ages and dies, less and less people will want to even listen to AM radio. It's a dying demographic.
Wonder what happened to the buggy whip manufacturers years ago?
--Shane
KD6VXI
"He only listens to extreme right wing conservative talk shows."
can uou name just ONE??
Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Michael Savage....
You won't hear how most Americans really feel watching The View.
And you don't hear how most American's really feel by listening to those shows, either.
--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
Resurrecting a thread from the grave.
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And you don't hear how most American's really feel by listening to those shows, either.
--Shane
WP2ASS / ex KD6VXI
Resurrecting a thread from the grave.
Because people aren't allowed to discuss politics (or religion) in most public forums.
And most people want to watch the History Channel and Discovery Channel so they agree to pay for several other channels spewing vile disgusting lies, misdirection, half-truths, out of context conclusions and trying to create the sense that anyone who's watching is in the minority with success in many instances.
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The price of gas, food, housing and the crime rate are what people are really concerned about. Not alphabet soup and inclusivity. That’s just a diversion.