eHam
eHam Forums => Clubs => Topic started by: NN2X on December 07, 2020, 06:45:21 AM
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Interesting:
People of all ages operate ham radio. What's your age? (This is the response from Eham) / December 7, 2020
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If Hams do not do something, most QSO we will be between our graves.
I tried to do something, I was interviewed for the CEO position for ARRL three times, I said repeatedly on interview, we must target the young and I had a solution, which I had performed a pilot test here in Texas. It works, but I simply don't have the resources like ARRL, But I digress
FYI: I did not get the job (ARRL CEO), otherwise, there would be a change in direction for the ARRL, rather trying to protect frequencies for Ham radio (Which is a great thing), but we can't protect something that we will not use!
Look, it is not all about Ham radio, How many of you are Engineers? Do you recall when you had your first exposure to Ham radio and you knew that would be your path...(I know this did for me)
Here is what I did to promote Ham radio
I went to the private schools, I provided a demonstration, and provided a small course..the kids loved it..
(And so did the parents!).. (Forget Public schools, way to much red tape,...Miserable experience!)
If I were the CEO ARRL, I would provide a mission to the Ham clubs across the USA and asked them to do the same, which is to target the private schools, and have a certain amount of quota (Per year) to provide demonstrations.
If for anything, those kids who are seeking a channel to become an engineer, Ham radio is the very best path...
Maybe it is time, to have another ARRL, and organization to promote Ham radio to the youth...I know others have tried. I believe the pilot test I did here in Texas, is one option that truly works.
Tell me what you all think?
Tom / NN2X / 73's
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Tom - There should be ways to start your ham club youth movement without being CEO of the ARRL.
KF4HR
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Tom - There should be ways to start your ham club youth movement without being CEO of the ARRL.
KF4HR
It is in the numbers..I can do my part, which I have done, but it is a drop in a bucket...You need full scale effort, which this can only be via ARRL..
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Hi Tom, I commend your efforts along with your idea of doing it with private schools for the reasons stated.
I don't think u need the arrl for something like this. In fact I suspect you'd be stuck in the "a camel is a horse designed by a committee thing".
New ideas are often best promoted by one person with a vision and passion to start it up. Like minded people join you ( new chapters) and you go from there.
If I may ......I like to think outside the box sometimes. Not out of any passion but just to cover the bases and be sure the thinking I am buying into is heading the right way.
In my only 4 years in the hobby as 6 decader on the planet type and when I've heard the "youth is our future" and the grim one that says "this hobby dies with us" and I really wonder if we are off the tracks with our thinking.
Was ham ever really a bastion of youth or is it mainly a hobby for the retired? What were the age group spreads circa 1960 compared to today? Is the hobby really driven by those that joined in their youth or is it more by those that joined in later life? I don't know the answer to all that but I wonder if our recruitment efforts would be simply accomplished by going to places where we would introduce the hobby to seniors and say empty nesters in their 40's. I seem to talk to a lot of empty nesters when I get on and call my "anyone anywhere CQ."
Is it like Genealogy .... The younger ones eyes glaze over and the old folks light up about the subject.
And .... Not saying youth outreach is not a great idea, regardless. It is a great idea. Any of those little minds of mush that get fed the right way with tech and wonder could simply find something they enjoy for a lifetime or they could get the bug and go into engineering or physics or maybe the next Elon Musk could be the student you teach to call cq next week. Just wondering if the end result is not going to save our hobby..... Maybe it's bigger than all that. And smaller.
Ok I ramble...... Thanks for the brain food :)
John k1jrf
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Was ham ever really a bastion of youth or is it mainly a hobby for the retired? What were the age group spreads circa 1960 compared to today? Is the hobby really driven by those that joined in their youth or is it more by those that joined in later life? I don't know the answer to all that but I wonder if our recruitment efforts would be simply accomplished by going to places where we would introduce the hobby to seniors and say empty nesters in their 40's. I seem to talk to a lot of empty nesters when I get on and call my "anyone anywhere CQ."
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John k1jrf
In my youth (forty-odd years ago) and on this side of the big pond, amateur radio was a bastion of youth. I grew up as a member of one of the big contesting clubs in Britain and the majority of members were under 40 - many under 30. Planning for Field Day was like planning a military campaign and a small convoy of vehicles would set off for the hills the day before to pitch camp, fire up the generators and attack the enemy! I was one of the youngest at 14, but most of my companions on expeditions like that were under 25.
Martin (G8FXC)
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John,
One way to see the change in demographic for yourself is to download some of the ARRL, RSGB, WIA etc. magazines from the 1970s or 80s. Leaving aside the fact that we (then) juniors generally didn't figure too much, the "movers and shakers" in the pictures are generally in their late 20s, 30s or 40s. In fact, those same people may very well be the ones still figuring prominently in the pictures of today!
I'm not a fan of appealing to the lowest common denominator in a race to the bottom for membership of the national bodies, although I recognize that those bodies have aspirational targets for their own and the wider ham radio viability. One target group I, and some others I know, try to interest are the technically minded high achievers at school and university. We'll never be killed in the rush by these people, simply because they have too many alternative paths. However, relatively few such people can make a big difference in the innovation facet of the hobby, as they have in the past.
I don't regard this approach as inappropriately elitist: it's rather a balance to the mainstream recruitment which, in my view, is heavily slanted in the opposite direction. It might be as simple as just doing what you can in the circles you move, whether they're academic or other circles.
73, Peter.
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Well, I'm 60 and disabled. I used to try to help young hams and new hams alike. But alas, the politics of a radio club being against someone who had plenty of time to do something caused me to leave the hobby.
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I think your crazy.
Carry on.
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Was ham ever really a bastion of youth or is it mainly a hobby for the retired? What were the age group spreads circa 1960 compared to today?
I was a teenager when I got my license in 1966, and I can assure you there were lots of hams my age. There seemed to be a good spread of ages among licensees. Some of the older, more experienced hams wouldn't talk to Novices, but there were plenty of us newbies, so we could talk to each other.
It may be true that ham radio can perpetuate itself primarily through the recruitment of older people; I don't know. But it certainly wasn't that way when I got started.
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When I was 13 and got my ticket (1983) I was the only youngster at the local club. Everybody was very kind and helpful, and they treated me like a rock star because I was such a rarity. Perhaps the demographic skewed a little younger back then, but there wasn't a crush of kids barging the doors down. The people in my Technician class were retired, or XYL's getting their license so they could talk to their spouses on the repeater ("K7OM this is N7XYL, could you stop and get a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk?"). I loved radio, and I couldn't understand how anybody else couldn't find it equally fascinating. Of course, back then, shortwave listening was a window into the world that really wasn't available anywhere else. I could use my handheld to make a phone call on the local phone patch repeater and that was quite a party trick! But to actually learn Morse code and study for a test? Only the true die-hards would bother with all of that. It has been my experience in life that people either get it, and find it fascinating, or they don't.
I know lots of very technically minded people who never gave a lick about ham radio. I was a radar technician in the Air Force, and was surrounded by electronics geeks but my peers were into Commodore Amigas and spending 2 months salary on a 30286 clone. Everyone thought my radio obsession rather quaint, even in the 80's. I can't make anybody find it interesting who doesn't naturally gravitate towards it. I first saw it as a Cub Scout when I was about 8, but I'd already spent many sleepless nights DXing on the A.M. broadcast bands.
I can only imagine how boring it must seem to a kid who's grown up not even worrying about long-distance tolls, let alone being able to instantly communicate with anybody on the planet. Even though I still feel the magic of snatching a signal from the ether, it isn't quite as exciting as listening to Radio Moscow at the hight of the Cold War.
Beyond keeping the hobby in the public eye as much as we reasonably can, I think evangelizing beyond that is a Quixotic quest. No sense flagellating about it. I don't understand wanting to ride a horse and paying to keep it alive, but there are still people who do that.
Corey
KD7LX
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When I was 13 and got my ticket (1983) I was the only youngster at the local club. Everybody was very kind and helpful, and they treated me like a rock star because I was such a rarity. Perhaps the demographic skewed a little younger back then, but there wasn't a crush of kids barging the doors down. The people in my Technician class were retired, or XYL's getting their license so they could talk to their spouses on the repeater ("K7OM this is N7XYL, could you stop and get a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk?"). I loved radio, and I couldn't understand how anybody else couldn't find it equally fascinating. Of course, back then, shortwave listening was a window into the world that really wasn't available anywhere else. I could use my handheld to make a phone call on the local phone patch repeater and that was quite a party trick! But to actually learn Morse code and study for a test? Only the true die-hards would bother with all of that. It has been my experience in life that people either get it, and find it fascinating, or they don't.
I know lots of very technically minded people who never gave a lick about ham radio. I was a radar technician in the Air Force, and was surrounded by electronics geeks but my peers were into Commodore Amigas and spending 2 months salary on a 30286 clone. Everyone thought my radio obsession rather quaint, even in the 80's. I can't make anybody find it interesting who doesn't naturally gravitate towards it. I first saw it as a Cub Scout when I was about 8, but I'd already spent many sleepless nights DXing on the A.M. broadcast bands.
I can only imagine how boring it must seem to a kid who's grown up not even worrying about long-distance tolls, let alone being able to instantly communicate with anybody on the planet. Even though I still feel the magic of snatching a signal from the ether, it isn't quite as exciting as listening to Radio Moscow at the hight of the Cold War.
Beyond keeping the hobby in the public eye as much as we reasonably can, I think evangelizing beyond that is a Quixotic quest. No sense flagellating about it. I don't understand wanting to ride a horse and paying to keep it alive, but there are still people who do that.
Corey
KD7LX
Your experience is almost word for word like mine except I started a little over a decade earlier, first licensed in 1971. But everything else was all the same. There was a bunch of us at around age 16 years of age and licensed. There were a lot of 20 something, 30 something and 40 year old hams as well as the "old guys". It is NOT like it is now, with mostly us "old guys" of which I am in the over 66 club. I think your observations and conclusions are spot on.
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If I were the CEO ARRL, I would provide a mission to the Ham clubs across the USA and asked them to do the same, which is to target the private schools,
Tell me what you all think?
OK but you will not like it one bit. That is why you are not the CEO, you are an Elitist and out of touch with reality. Only wealthy kids in private schools are good enough to be a ham. Glad they showed you the door.
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My prediction is in 10 years the hobby will be pretty much gone as we once knew it. It already sounds like CB radio. I hate to say that but the old timers will be dead, the license requirement will probably go away as a last ditch effort to sell gear, then the rednecks that have blessed the bands for the last 20 years will start to die off.
As far as the kids. Forget it. You can do more on a Cell phone than you ever could or can on a ham radio for 600 to a 1000 dollars and a phone plan. They aint interested. Believe me.
NUFF SAID!!!
73ss
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2105: You might be a wet blanket for ham radio, but then again, you might be right. :(
When I was a kid all the local teens were interested in hot rods. Today the triple Strombergs and shaved heads are a thing of the past. The only semblance of those days are the sound of the mufflers and even that has toned down many dB's.
I grew up at a time when a crank telephone could still be found in farm houses and TV was something that only the folks up in the hilltop mansion enjoyed.
Then I heard a crystal set. ... I was addicted!
With all the electronic doo-dads available on today's market and the thrills gotten from the "killed or be killed" computer games available today, who has time to become intrigued with ham radio?
I remember, as a teen, seeing a picture of Alexander the Great and beneath the picture it said, "No more worlds to conquer". That could be said for today's youth. They've got it all already. sigh
I believe we have to enjoy whatever comes our way and be contented in life itself until something better comes along. Have fun piling up the QSO's in contests, or adding that amplifier stage to the latest project and be happy. I'm thinking that we only live twice, so keep smiling and make people wonder what you're up to. ;D
Charlie
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I grew up in the farmland west of Detroit, Michigan. I got my tech license in 1959 at 15 years old. I was the only one under about 30 at the local radio club in Detroit. I was the only one in my school with a license. I started a license class after school. One kid got his novice license out of about 10 that started the class. Most lost interest after they found out they had to learn Morse.
One thing I found with the older guys back then was that many were willing to help me get started. I found help in building equipment, donating parts, answering technical questions, and providing rides to the club meetings.
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Well the 30 year olds are joking about how antique those old flip phones were. If that puts things into perspective. They are definitely not interested in ham radio.
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2105: You might be a wet blanket for ham radio, but then again, you might be right. :(
When I was a kid all the local teens were interested in hot rods. Today the triple Strombergs and shaved heads are a thing of the past. The only semblance of those days are the sound of the mufflers and even that has toned down many dB's.
I grew up at a time when a crank telephone could still be found in farm houses and TV was something that only the folks up in the hilltop mansion enjoyed.
Then I heard a crystal set. ... I was addicted!
With all the electronic doo-dads available on today's market and the thrills gotten from the "killed or be killed" computer games available today, who has time to become intrigued with ham radio?
I remember, as a teen, seeing a picture of Alexander the Great and beneath the picture it said, "No more worlds to conquer". That could be said for today's youth. They've got it all already. sigh
I believe we have to enjoy whatever comes our way and be contented in life itself until something better comes along. Have fun piling up the QSO's in contests, or adding that amplifier stage to the latest project and be happy. I'm thinking that we only live twice, so keep smiling and make people wonder what you're up to. ;D
Charlie
Charlie knows what time it is.
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It is perhaps also a question of the view from the respective age perspective: When I acquired 1978 with 14 years my HAM radio license were in my former local club at that time from my view almost only "old men", who treated the few young people at best indifferently. I can still remember that there was a seating arrangement at the club meetings at that time - I had once unknowingly sat at the head of the meeting table; I got a big scolding, because only the board was allowed to sit there. These meetings were often held in smoky back rooms of inns. No one proactively addressed newcomers there. There were never any activities for newcomers or targeted promotions either. I met my Elmer John Fournier (DC0HW/G8LRH, sk) much later.
I only got into HAM radio because I had been infected with the electronics and HF bug before. A family friend recognized this and recommended me to a course to obtain the license. At the beginning of that course, the instructor said unambiguously that he had no interest in qualifying CB radio operators for an amateur radio license! It was a good thing that I had not told anyone there that I occasionally did CB as well. Besides, I was quite thick-skinned even back then and didn't let those "old men" scare me off.
Today - with 58 years - I belong now also to the "old men". However I am always pleased about the rare moments, if I can exchange myself with young people over HAM radio - perhaps also because I had it differently at that time. The fact is, however, that they have completely different priorities, which is why the current efforts of the amateur radio clubs to attract young people are, in my opinion, a complete waste of energy and have no lasting effect. From my observation, at least here in DL, perhaps it is different in the States.
In addition nowadays the pressure regarding school, apprenticeships, work, life planning & partnership, starting a family etc. is so great that there is hardly the necessary free time to engage in a demanding leisure activity at the same time. Thus then e.g. tinkering afternoons or vacation actions for children/young people fizzle out as singular event, without from it new radio amateurs grow out.
It would be substantially more meaningful instead to give more attention to the age group 50plus: This age group is usually professionally and privately established, financially secured and sees itself in the medium term also the retiring from the working life ahead, so that place and time for new hobbies are available. Here the correct activities to unfold, these people for HAM radio to inspire would be substantially more purposeful and also more lasting!
Perhaps the responsible persons in the amateur radio federations think once about it.
So, only my five cents
73
Eilert, DL9BDM
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My experience working with younger people in IT is that they are smarter and more hard working than they often get credit for.
How about a bank of servers on the internet with software for them to write the next generation of software applications and radios? I believe over time we can draw interest from younger people.
They are not interested in tubes or spark. But they are into cutting edge solutions.
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Received my Novice license in High School and yes I would love to see more young folks in the hobby. My interest started as an SWL and listening to the many AM stations on the ham bands at the time. A 3-tube receiver and a piece of wire tacked to the wall in my bedroom were my motivation. It may sound simplistic, but it's not what other folks do to interest young people in ham radio, it's a self-initiated desire on their part which is likely to assure a lifelong interest in the hobby. The element of "the magic of radio" is the spark that lights the fire. Quantity is never a substitute for quality. It's no good recruiting new hams regardless of age if after a few months they stick their license and their Baofeng in a drawer and forget about them both.
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So, is it possible to start an open source "Amateur Radio Software Corporation"?
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So, is it possible to start an open source "Amateur Radio Software Corporation"?
That is pretty old school. You simply start an open source project on GitHub or similar, declare your open source licensing terms and invite collaboration. There is no traditional legal structure nor individual ownership of the resulting works.
- Glenn W9IQ
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Perhaps this shift we are seeing towards licensees being older are due to the times we live in and technology. I was first licensed in the 60's before cell phones and the internet existed so I found considerable excitement involved with building or buying equipment that could communicate over long distances, mainly because, aside from snail mail or long distance phone charges, there was no other way!
Of course now-a-day most young folks have many inexpensive ways to communicate long distances, without the need to study for a license or build a ham station.
But as many of us hams know, even though there are less expensive ways to communicate around the world, there are many aspects of ham radio that are appealing, especially for those who have time on their hands to enjoy these aspects; for example retirees. And maybe this is the main reason why we have this shift in the ham age group.
To the best of my knowledge, the US ham population, while not growing in leaps and bounds, continues to increase slowly, so I wouldn't sweat this age shift.
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Tell me what you all think?
Tom / NN2X / 73's
Influx of youngsters likely not gonna happen.
Wayne Green was preaching basically the same thing decades ago and few listened nor got involved. And he had some great ideas too. Even had a few cool programs for kids.
I tried for years locally to get young folks interested in the hobby and electronics in general to virtually no avail. Nowadays I only bother if I feel that there is genuine interest. I never try to "sell" ham radio.
Just do the best you can, as we all should. And thank you for your efforts.
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Glenn makes a great point about github.
there are 951 repository results listed under amateur radio on github. Could this effort be consolidated somewhat to a more common purpose?
my entreprenurial skills are lacking here but, like all of you, I'd love to see more younger people involved.
years ago, AMSAT was formed to support amateur radio satellite activity and is still functioning today. Can we do this with software?
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Having a hard time getting around the virtue signaling.
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Maybe all this "data" shows is young people don't like taking polls?
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All I know is 1) older hams are not accepting the fact that ham radio drastically changed in 2005 and 2) ham clubs with older hams do everything they can to discourage new hams.
We're eating our young! Maybe things will change for the better in 20 or 30 more years.
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As a relatively new ham, being licensed when I was 63, I found quite a few older hams not willing to help, or was looked down upon because I wasn't required to learn CW code. Not conducive to growth, and that attitude will kill off any endeavor. Also, I believe more emphasis should be put on getting 30+ year olds interested. It's great to get younger kids interested, and should continue, but 30 year olds and up are more likely to have disposable income that this hobby/service requires.
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A car auction site, Bring a Trailer, has noticed that some of the buyers for the muscle cars is dropping off, possibly because the older guys are dying off, they are the ones that remember and know the cars . rare toyota sports models are bringing higher prices with younger buyers.
So things do change, but radios are better than ever imho, I don't know if even the younger users will find no one on frequency when they are retirement age.
They said the guitar and 4 guy group would never last in the 60's.
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It might take longer but ham radio will die like model trains. Todays youth has little patience for learning.
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It might take longer but ham radio will die like model trains. Todays youth has little patience for learning.
I wouldn't call it "little patience for learning." Maybe in some cases. But I'd call it... today's youth are overwhelmingly flooded and bombarded with spam, virus's, scams, robocalls, loud advertising, TV "blipverts", video games, loud mind-numbing music (music? that's not music...), pressure to keep up with a continuous stream of social media content scrolling down the screen of their cell phones, mountains of trash created by using things once and then throwing things away and more peer pressure than ever before to do stupid things such as trying to keep up with and out-do their "social media influencers" within their sphere of "friends".
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I am with DL9DBM on this issue. Guys, think about your own beginnings in Amateur Radio: we had little money, little space, no way to compete with the big guns, and not at all the time available to watch for DX.
It's the same today. I would not look for the youth, but for the generation 50+. They have the resources, they'll soon have the time, they have the space, and they look forward to a meaningful hobby. I think that's where the sweet spot is.
Being a ham op in one's 20's must be very frustrating. Just as it wsas when I was 20.
F4GFT
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A lot of good thoughts here. I hope the powers to be at ARRL and some of the larger, active clubs are reading this.
I got started in the hobby during the 50s. I received my Novice license in 58 at 14 years of age. My interest was being able to talk to people around the world from a few electronic boxes in my bedroom. My gear was mostly military surplus (Arc5s & BCs) and Heathkits. I became an expert at converting military surplus gear to ham use and building Heathkits. It wasn’t until the late 70s that I purchased my first non kit and non surplus rig. I never had any real interest in electronics or electrical engineering.
While I can use an Ohm meter and dummy load with proficiency I only have enough electronic knowledge to maintain my gear and build wonderful wire antennas. My interest in the hobby, as it was when I started, is meeting and chatting with other hams (friends) around the country and world. In my 60s and 70s it is a joy to turn on my radio and meet and chat with friends from a little box, now in my basement shack.
I’m not sure younger kids today look to our hobby for meeting people. While I use to get a kick out of speaking into my tin can walkie-talkie young kids today have cell phones and contact their friends around their city, state, country and world with ease with out a license requirement or any knowledge of how it all works. One piece of hand held equipment can keep youth entertained for hours on end, without concern for propagation or band conditions or QRN or….
We are in a different era. I don’t think our hobby is going to be of much interest to todays youth. Maybe a few may have some interest following the footsteps of their parents and grandparents. Or some may be intrigued by digital stuff or satellites. But mostly not. I think our hobby is now fertile ground for those older folks wanting a leisure hobby where they can relax at home and meet people from the confines of their own abodes. And, what’s wrong with that? I’m not saying we shouldn’t recruit kids. I like kids. In fact I have a grand kid I absolutely adore. And occasionally we communicate when she isn’t on her cell phone. But I can’t see her ever wanting to sit at home talking on a radio.
I think we need to spend more time recruiting middle age and seniors. They have the resources and need for relaxation that the hobby can provide. I don’t see anything wrong with having a hobby for older folks. Which doesn’t exclude juniors or anyone else that has an interest. Just my two cents.
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I am with DL9DBM on this issue. Guys, think about your own beginnings in Amateur Radio: we had little money, little space, no way to compete with the big guns, and not at all the time available to watch for DX.
It's the same today. I would not look for the youth, but for the generation 50+. They have the resources, they'll soon have the time, they have the space, and they look forward to a meaningful hobby. I think that's where the sweet spot is.
Being a ham op in one's 20's must be very frustrating. Just as it wsas when I was 20.
F4GFT
DL9DBM, Eilert sent me a nice email on this topic. See my previous post in this thread. I would love to see young folks become involved in the hobby, mostly of their own volition. Often we see these "wringing of the hands" posts, reminding me of chicken little and the sky is falling, if we don't encourage young people to join the hobby. Where are the post that want to encourage older folks to join the hobby? As F4GFT indicates, many of them certainly have the financial resources, and the retired or soon-to-be-retired crowd has the time. It's time we stop pitting old and young against each other and equally encourage all new entrants regardless of age to our hobby.
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I know I am late to the party but here is my experience. I first heard shortwave on my (rich) Uncles wooden console radio. I was immediately interested. Later I had a paper route (remember those?) and my goal was to earn money to buy a portable transistor (remember those?) radio with a short wave band. I did it! One night as I am camping outside my house I hear two guys talking (40 meters) - HAM RADIO! I was super interested. And the best thing was one ham gave the other ham (they were both local VE3s) his phone number. Since I was in the habit of logging what I heard I wrote it down. I called him the next day. Well the rest is history. Soon thereafter I got and built a Heathkit HR-10 (remember those?) for Christmas. I was in heaven. In 1967 at age 16 I got my first ham license. There were quite a few young hams in those days and almost everyone was friendly. The key thing for me though was "I felt the magic" right away. I agree with all the comments about "youth" in general being occupied with many other things. But ham radio as always been a "minority" hobby, i.e. less than 1% of the population. We only need to find a few to keep things going. One local radio club in Utah County seems very good at attracting a younger demographic and encouraging Technicians to upgrade. Now back to the original suggestion. If we can crowd source a good set of lessons, I would be willing to approach charter schools (not elitist in Utah) and give a demo and if any are interested give a class. Don't know much about the public school system but I am not averse to contacting a few science teachers and pitch it as introduction to STEM. Whatever happens ham radio is the greatest hobby ever and I am very grateful for those who went before me.
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I wouldn't call it "little patience for learning." Maybe in some cases. But I'd call it... today's youth are overwhelmingly flooded and bombarded with spam, virus's, scams, robocalls, loud advertising, TV "blipverts", video games, loud mind-numbing music (music? that's not music...), pressure to keep up with a continuous stream of social media content scrolling down the screen of their cell phones, mountains of trash created by using things once and then throwing things away and more peer pressure than ever before to do stupid things such as trying to keep up with and out-do their "social media influencers" within their sphere of "friends".
Exactly. Well said.
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I am in the up to 65 years of age bracket. Been licensed just shy of 30 years now. Still enjoy the hobby, still trying to get more young folk involved in the hobby. We’ve seen a few teens join our ranks here in my part of Florida. Due in part to the propensity for hurricanes here. We do what we can with what is available.
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If Hams do not do something, most QSO we will be between our graves.
Which band are we using? :)
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Age here is 76. Entered ham radio in 1959 at age 13 and still quite active, mostly in CW, SSB, and RTTY contests...no FT8. Unfortunately, my outlook for the future of ham radio is not very optimistic.
Look at the pictures in the HR magazines and on the websites...grey hair and/or bald, wrinkled, and paunchy. While the total number of licenses in the U.S. has been pretty stable over the last 20 years, the disparity in classes is distressing...over 50% are Technician class compared to all other classes combined.
The golden/boom years of ham radio were the 1950's, 60's, and early 70's (when CBers were going to HR). Those are also the ones that upgraded to the General, Advanced, and Extra class that we see today. Lots of teens and 20 somethings, as wireless radio communications was still considered "magic". Not so much today, as the younger generation is consumed with cell phones/texting, computers, video games, and crazy social media options. Tell someone younger than 40-45 that you're a ham radio operator, and you'll most likely get a blank stare and say, "what's that?".
The next 10-20 years will be the telltale sign where the overall total number of licenses will start declining more rapidly, and the Technician class % will rise exponentially, as those upgraded General, Advanced, and Extra class hams from "yesteryear", entering their 70's, 80's, and 90's, will start dying off in increasing numbers.
Regarding the reasons that Technicians are not upgrading to the higher classes, I place a portion of the blame on the increasing numbers of HOA/CC&R antenna restricted communities. As the older communities without such restrictions are becoming more dilapidated, folks are seeking more modern homes, closer to work, schools, and other amenities...now mostly under HOA's. The Technicians are just able to use their VHF/UHF HT's, and without the ability to erect HF antennas, what's the incentive to upgrade?
Of course, all this is just my opinion. Hopefully I'm wrong, and something will come to fruition that will keep ham radio a viable, rewarding hobby that I've enjoyed for the last 63 years.
Bob K7JQ
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Quite well-known fact the over whelming majority of ham radio operators is white, male, ageing baby boomers. Exactly what your data is telling you.
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Our two year old granddaughter currently loves my radios - will spend hours fiddling with the knobs and tuning around. A few weeks ago, she worked out how to turn on break-in and I discovered her babbling in Morse on 20m - sorry to anyone round the world that heard her and was puzzled - it was in Lottiese.
She also comes with us to the boat to go sailing and she's learning to use a walkie-talkie. She wanters along the pontoon with a PMR446 (equivalent to FRS) HT in hand, babbling to her grandma back on the boat. Before long, I'll start to teach her how to use the marine radio - I would expect her to be able to make a mayday call if necessary before she is five.
Will she carry on with ham radio? I don't know, but given the lifestyle she is going to grow up in, I would expect her to be comfortable with two-way radio communications as a matter of course...
Martin (G8FXC)
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Maker clubs are a better way to introduce kids to technology. They can go there and see stuff, similar to model railroading. Some maker clubs have a ham station.
Personally I feel that hams with their introverty-superior-low-social-skills personalities have been killing the hobby all along... Getting on the air after school when I was a kid was unpleasant sometimes due to comments by the older guys on the air. I eventually went with CW to filter them out. CW is too laborious to express themselves fully.
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Guys, we haven't been reliably attracting "youth" since at least the 1980s if not earlier.
Yet, our license numbers have held steady. Even our ratio of HF capable ops have degraded (as a fraction of the whole) little if at all.
I'm watching for things like reduction of contesting and like things, but so far, it's hard to see any serious trends.
How have we survived without recruiting fifteen year olds?
We've done it by attracting hams in their 20s, 30s, and 40s.
Instead of assuming we are doomed because teens don't join, we should focus on the places we are actually winning and strengthen that.
If you're worried about "too many appliance ops", you need to check out the "maker" community. eham even has a forum for it (it's the one with "Arduino" in the title).
We are heading for a ham tinkering world with fewer soldering irons, more Grove connectors and more software. But, we are not heading for a world where people don't build radios or especially radio accessories.
A lot of people are putting 200 dollar HF receivers on the internet right now. They are not top of the line, but they are as good as any 20 year old HF analog rig.
There's simply lots that can be done these days. It is done by older people and it is done a different way. We need to help them define their ham radio instead of wringing our hands that they won't do it like we did in the '70s.
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Personally I feel that hams with their introverty-superior-low-social-skills personalities have been killing the hobby all along...
IT'S STILL ALIVE! How many more decades do you estimate it will take until the hobby is dead? By the way, I don't disagree with you that many hams tend to be introverts but the facts would tend to disprove that as a negative factor when dealing with the longevity of the hobby.
"Amateur radio came into being after radio waves (proved to exist by Heinrich Rudolf Hertz in 1888) were adapted into a communication system in the 1890s by the Italian inventor Guglielmo Marconi. In the late 19th century, there had been amateur wired telegraphers setting up their own interconnected telegraphic systems."
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It might take longer but ham radio will die like model trains. Todays youth has little patience for learning.
Hi Mike (K6AER):
Chin up! It's not THAT gloomy!
Humanity, as a whole, changes very slowly. Based on my own experience with my own children and with mentoring newly minted engineers and techs, its roughly the same percentages as it was 40 years ago:
Some people have brains, know how to use them and do.
Some people are lazy (rich or poor, smart or stupid) "entitled" and squander whatever they have, doing as little as possible, then blame everyone else for their situation.
And some people are just average (or even below), but do their best, work hard and don't give up. They tend to do well.
That said, there is an entirely new world of relevant and key technologies that have gone far, far beyond ham radio. Particularly in the multiple fields of communication. And most productive, young people put their efforts into them rather than the sideline that is this hobby.
It really doesn't matter - amateur radio has always been in the minority, and gets along just fine. Most hobbies are like that.
For example, model trains.
My next door neighbor in CA is a surgeon and has an enormous (to me) train layout designed to drop down from a (large) garage ceiling. He's WAY younger than me.
I have train sets in CA and CT. Pretty decent ones (that I take down when not in use - NOTHING like my neighbor's above) that Steven Cryan helped with - look him up. He's an East Coast train enthusiasts hub for this hobby and professional layout designer/builder.
https://ctrivermuseum.org/events/connecticut-river-museum-speaker-series-steve-cryan-steam-power-of-the-ct-river-valley/
https://www.zip06.com/local-news/20211208/cryan-leads-steam-trains-talk-on-dec-16/
The nearby city of El Segundo CA has a yearly christmas block party near Imperial Blvd. that features an entire front yard of automated trains that almost every young child delights in - while the older teens help set it up and run it.
My kids, now in their late 20's still look forward to putting up our trains, every year, and playing with the layouts, though they've completed college and been out on their own for some time.
So, like ham radio, the model train hobby is still alive and well. But it's one of MANY, and there are so many interesting choices, today. So perhaps it's not "THE" hobby anymore. But it doesn't need to be.
Brian - K6BRN
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Tough to say, but Ham Radio is not aging well. I was into learning code and passing Novice in the early 70s. But, local hams were real a**holes, and could only criticize 'long haired kids'. I ended up getting into cars and building audio equipment instead.
Fast forward to my late 50s. No longer working full time, I started looking at hobbies. I friend was a ham, and I decided to pick it up again. Having fun, but see the hobby for what it is. Old guys. My two 20s boys are heavy into tech. Neither had the slightest interest in Ham Radio. None of their friends either. I went to a successful local club meeting, all old people. Last year, I went to PacificCON, again, all old people, except for some Boy Scouts wandering around.
Not a problem for me, but I think we have to acknowledge the hobby will shrink significantly in the next 10 years. Many other hobbies are going through the same thing. Tube audio, coin and stamp collectors, model railroaders, all have seen little to no interest from young people. Read the 'Fourth Turning' and follow on articles by Neil Howe on coming generational earthquakes. Also 'Bowling Alone'.
ARRL needs to right size if they haven't started. Their goals seem to be to spend $$ on 'saving' spectrum that no one uses. And, fighting HOAs on antennas, despite the fact that the Hams SIGNED the HOA agreement when they move in. QST is not so good anymore, and the last few books I purchased seem to be just reprinted QST articles.
What happens when equipment makers start leaving the Ham Radio business? I have a IC7300 which is likely more than I will ever need. I cannot see myself ever buying a new rig. How can ICOM survive in Ham Radio? Will Elecraft or StepperIR be around in 5 or 10 years? ARRL may have to get in the equipment business to save the hobby. Will need money stashed away for that purpose.
I will need to see changes in ARRL before I rejoin, as there is no value for my money now. ARRL has many hard working and dedicated people. But they cannot stop the steamroller of time. They do not appear to be seeing that.
How about if we stop trying to convert young people and just enjoy the Ham Radio hobby? Support clubs and vendors the best we can. Enjoy the people who are still Hams, even if we are all old farts?
And, GET BACK ON THE AIR and TALK to people, OK?
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2020 post. suggest start a new one.
-Mike.
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I'm 61 now, and retired due to health issues.
I wanted to get into Amateur radio a long time ago, but a full time job and raising a family took up that time and resources.
I’ve been licensed now for just under 2 years. ( you wouldn't believe the crap many @$$hats sling on me)
I'm a retired industrial electrician and electronics tech. and by far not a lid.
Now that I have the time, the only thing slowing me down is the costs
So I build my gear or repair them.
Having the skill of visualization is a benefit that should be taught.
It can with reasonably allow a person to " see" what the circuit or antenna will do.
Granted today you have software that can simulate that and show an image for you.
We need to reach out to young people, make thins fun. And above all we need to stop being bitter old farts and talk to these kids.
So I'll ask these questions
How many people out there refuse to talk to a weak signal or poorly executed code?
How many hams get surley or cold at the mention of baofengs?
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Back in my day, the change from the 30khz to 20kHz 2M bandplan was cause for revolt. What about all the crystal radio users out there? Then it was no code, the hobby would die with these wannabe's. Echolink was blasphemy, not real radio! Today we have FT8, any mouse clicker can make DXCC. More V/U digital modes than you can shake a stick at. That's not real radio, it uses the internet.
Frankly, now that I'm past four decades of being licensed I can honestly say all of the dire predictions of the death of ham radio are all a bunch of crap. Somehow fishing is a pastime/sport that seems to survive when there are much more practical and efficient ways to have a fish dinner. Ham radio has a lot of parallels to fishing - costs money, takes time, requires dedication. Ham radio isn't a young person's hobby with few exceptions - I know, I started young. Compared to other pursuits it was a lot harder and more expensive. What kid these days has thousands to spend on a hobby unless their parents foot the bill? I worked my *arse* off mowing grass, shoveling snow and delivering papers just to acquire the POS boatanchors I had. I don't think the demographics of ham radio has changed a lot for decades. Sure, you want to introduce kids to the hobby and it's great when some latch on and make it a passion, but you can't sell that. As W2NSD would say in his editorials you could print ham radio licenses on cereal boxes and you would still only get so many people that are interested. Ham radio is different today than when I was a novice but all the elements of learning and enjoyment are still there - if that's what you value. The good old days are today, and I believe the magic of radio will endure beyond whatever amusements that technology offers as a distraction to people of all ages.
Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
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Mark (K5LXP):
Well said. The fishing analogy/observation is brilliant.
Brian - K6BRN
(Mouse Clicker Extraordinaire - 65 clicks per minute!)
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As a matter of perspective I think that we need to stress the importance of knowing more than one way of accomplishment.
For instance ( as an example)
Sanding a fine piece of walnut or mahogany,
You can lovingly hand sand a piece to a soft finish. Or use a power sander to do it quickly.
Either way can get satisfying results, but what are the pros and cons of it?
Hand sanding can get you a sense of fulfillment and the benifits of a workout.
Power sanding can save time, but its very easy to mess up.
With technology today its the same issue!
You can communicate with a cellphone ( something totally unheard of when I was a child)
But we were taught various code such as semaphore, morse, sign language, and geo code ( the art of stone stacking, good for simple messages)
Sadly though education tends to enslave itself to technology all too much.
I know we need to evolve with technology but are we relying on it too much?
The same can be said about occupations,
Specializing in one form works too narrow a field and you end up very hard pressed to learn the difference, usually learning from costly mistakes.
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Since technology is now ubiquitous, kids seem to take it for granted. Starting with the primitive basics appears to have no allure because they already have/use very sophisticated devices. It's like going back to the stone age for them.
I tried sparking some interest with my grandson by getting an electronics kit, but it was an utter failure. As far as i know, he hasn't even opened it since he got it. I ask if he got into it occasionally, but he makes excuses as well as having other 'obsessions" at the moment.
Nobody had to push him into doing Rubik's cubes. He found that by himself. Kids will gravitate to what fascinates them. Apparently exposure to electronics didn't incite his imagination.
In fact, I had no mentors in radio or electronics growing up , I found these myself as well.
In other words, to use a hackneyed phrase; "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".
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(snip)
I tried sparking some interest with my grandson by getting an electronics kit, but it was an utter failure. As far as i know, he hasn't even opened it since he got it. I ask if he got into it occasionally, but he makes excuses as well as having other 'obsessions" at the moment..
In fact, I had no mentors in radio or electronics growing up , I found these myself as well.
In other words, to use a hackneyed phrase; "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink".
James (AC2EU):
There have always been the "Weird Kids", like me and perhaps you, who'd spend their spare time taking apart various appliances for amusement and playing with radios and (later) microprocessors.
They still exist, gravitate towards each other and tend to go into technical career paths.
But they've always been relatively rare. And this personality trait is not necessarity carried on from father to son.
My son likes working on cars and motorcycles with me (as long as they're something special) but has little interest in tech hobbies. Instead he's an investment analyst, and a pretty good one. We did little tech projects together when he was in elementary school and he enjoyed it. But it was the world of finance/investment/entreprunership that caught his imagination. And he showed this strong interest in high school and won several awards for his projects, later graduating from a college known for this.
And I'm a nerd engineer. Ooops!
Well, at least he has a passion for his work. Many never find that.
But the young engineers I helped train before my second retirement just over a year ago were right there with me: "Lets take it apart, figure out how it works and make it better!" I had a special lab built just to support and explore this. They produced some great results - some very unexpected and creative - and we put them into practical deliveries to customers. To the consternation of some of the "old guard". "Hey, we TRIED that. It will never work!". Guess again - it did.
In short, it was a lot of fun. And yes - perhaps 15% of the newbies just didn't have the hands-on talent and interest they needed for success. But that's always been true.
As for Amateur Radio - once it was a cutting edge technology. But that hasn't been true for half a century. The current "cutting edge" FTDX-101 hybrid receiver technology and Flex-6600/IC-7610 direct digital sampling technologies were in use in my industry way back in the early 1990's. The price point has dropped, but the tech is largely the same.
On amateur radio statistics - perhaps we should be looking at two key metrics: 1. The percentage of total population with a license, plotted over time, and 2. The percentage of license base turnover (permanently cancelled licenses - not upgrades/vanity changes + new ones, i.e. "churn") over time. That would tell us a lot about the health of the hobby.
But no matter. Good or bad. I'm going to enjoy it while I can.
Brian - K6BRN
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An anti-aging forum would be more useful than threads about growing the hobby.
The ARRL could sponsor maker clubs and have a ham station available. I saw a maker club in California that had all sorts of electronics projects and a very nice ham station with a yagi on the roof. Kids were there every day and some probably took up the hobby. They had workbenches, their own cloud computer [seems a contradiction of terms but there it was] and engineers leading them in building projects that interested them. It was sponsored by the local tech industrial giants who feared a shortage of competent workers.
Repeatedly asking a bunch of aging introverts to grow the hobby seems like a dead end street, no? Clubs could have clubhouses with a station, I've seen that but the cranks that ran the club were impossible pretty much and it was inaccessible to anybody without a car anyhow...
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Repeatedly asking a bunch of aging introverts to grow the hobby seems like a dead end street, no?
Good point, Max.
Luckily we're not ALL old, sour introverts.
The FTx digital modes and remote operation has some attraction for Techno-Youth because it IS computer-centric and is a more or less modern digital comms mode. Remote operation is basically Command, Control and Telemetry, which is popular in the current Robotics push for STEM.
CW on the other hand is an interesting piece of history, but not a lot of young operators I've seen have a strong interest in it.
While some may argue that CW takes much more operating skill to do well (it DOES) than digital modes, it's the modes themselves that offer the opportunity for evolution into much more with the help and support of a newer crowd. This is one of the "gifts" left by Joe Taylor and his team. If and only if we're smart enough to realise this and pick up on it.
1. Improved converational digital modes (already in work, but attacked by some hams)
2. HF Command, Control and Telemetry to remote sites not served by more conventional means (yes, I know this requires some regulation changes - progress always does)
3. HF end-to end real time voice and data links with automated power control and relay, possibly applied to comms nets. Very military/emergency applicable as well.
A great deal is possible when we consider moving forward from the traditional operating model.
But change is difficult for many.
Brian - K6BRN
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James (AC2EU):
There have always been the "Weird Kids", like me and perhaps you, who'd spend their spare time taking apart various appliances for amusement and playing with radios and (later) microprocessors.
They still exist, gravitate towards each other and tend to go into technical career paths.
Yes, I was "that kid", and still am for the most part. I am "compelled" to know how things work!
The truth is that you can't really fix something unless you know how it works. Yet many dive into the abyss anyway.
My son liked to work on muscle cars, and fancied himself as a 'good mechanic" because he could change brake pads.
He never liked to delve into the details of much of anything. So, what you say about technical traits not necessarily passed father to son is very true!
He was more of a 'people person" so he started medical transport company, and yes , did his own basic mechanical work on the cars and vans.
I like the "maker" concept for promoting various technical hobbies, even amateur radio. The maker events are non specific , so if you bring amateur radio, there is a wider audience.
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When I trained apprentices in 3 phase we would take a burned out motor apart visually inspect and meter all the windings, and mark on a graphic chart which winding was open or shorted.
Using those results we would diagnose what the cause of the failure was.
Overload, phase imbalance, vibration, power surge, thermal runaway, insulation breakdown, and bearing failure.
Most of the bosses didn't care about that, their only concern was getting production back up.
But I left a bunch of highly skilled journeymen in charge when I retired.
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But I left a bunch of highly skilled journeymen in charge when I retired.
FB! That's really the best we can do.
Brian - K6BRN