eHam
eHam Forums => Repeaters => Topic started by: W4OEQ on January 11, 2021, 01:28:28 PM
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Been a ham for 56 years. Extra class. SSB, CW, Digital. I notice that when calling CQ on Echolink from my urban apartment QTH, I seldom get any response. It is not unusual to sit at the computer for an hour or two and never get any response to my calls on repeaters
around the U.S. and overseas. I can always call into an existing "net," and this verifies that the equipment is working. But,
I am interesting in the psychology of why hams don't seem to respond to calls made on Echolink as well as to calls made with
SSB or CW on the HF bands. Is it because hams who are members of a local club which sponsors their own repeater just want to talk to each other? If so, why connect the repeater to the Echolink system? I must be missing something...... 73, W4OEQ
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Been a ham for 56 years. Extra class. SSB, CW, Digital. I notice that when calling CQ on Echolink from my urban apartment QTH, I seldom get any response. It is not unusual to sit at the computer for an hour or two and never get any response to my calls on repeaters
around the U.S. and overseas. I can always call into an existing "net," and this verifies that the equipment is working. But,
I am interesting in the psychology of why hams don't seem to respond to calls made on Echolink as well as to calls made with
SSB or CW on the HF bands. Is it because hams who are members of a local club which sponsors their own repeater just want to talk to each other? If so, why connect the repeater to the Echolink system? I must be missing something...... 73, W4OEQ
You answered your own question of why nobody wants to talk to you in your first two sentences.
"Been a ham for 56 years. Extra class."
That opening "qualifier" alone explains what you are missing. Nobody wants to hear you pat yourself on the back and proceed to pontificate.
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:-) I'm sorry if I offended you. But, notice that when making CQ calls in any mode, listeners do not know anything about me. 73, W4OEQ
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:-) I'm sorry if I offended you. But, notice that when making CQ calls in any mode, listeners do not know anything about me. 73, W4OEQ
You did not offend me. I am trying to help. Here is what you fail to realize in regards to other modes. As soon as you throw your call out, the first thing most stations do is look your callsign up on QRZ. What do they see?
They see that you start your QRZ Bio out the same way as you started out your post here.
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W4OEQ - you sure you were a math teacher? Your bio says you were first licensed in 1955 ... wouldn't that make it 65 years a ham instead of 55 ? :^) LOL !
Seriously, I do know what you are talking about, often being on the other end of such EchoLink probes. I submit for the most part, no one is actually listening on most repeaters at the times you connect ... and further, a substantial number of hams who are listening are likely busy doing something while monitoring a repeater and simply don't want to bother establishing an EchoLink conversation. Our local repeater has a full time echolink connection but I tend to ignore those who come up on it while I am busy at other things in the shack -- UNLESS a question is asked by the EchoLink connected station. Just my opinion, OM.
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If you are doing a psychological study of the phenomenon, the issue is not limited to Echolink, but repeaters in general.
In my initial radio naivete' , I installed a dual band radio in my vehicle, thinking it would be a monotony breaker to chat with different hams while on the road. It didn't happen that way. I would only get an occasional response, if any at all.
It also appears that some believe the repeater is for "public events and emergency use only" whiles other won't talk unless they know you personally.
I look forward to reading your paper on "Ham repeater etiquette and psychology" . It's puzzled me for years!
PS: I no longer have dual banders installed in by cars! You might as well stop beating a dead horse too.
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I almost never use Echolink. But I do use repeaters.
I've always found that calling CQ on a repeater never gets a response.
The way it was explained to me many years ago, is you that announce your presence and desire for a contact by saying, "This is W8XYZ, listening". Or monitoring. Now that may vary in different geographic areas, so your mileage may vary.
People seem to treat Echolink like an extension of a repeater, so perhaps it's best to use repeater etiquette on Echolink.
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I almost never use Echolink. But I do use repeaters.
I've always found that calling CQ on a repeater never gets a response.
The way it was explained to me many years ago, is you that announce your presence and desire for a contact by saying, "This is W8XYZ, listening". Or monitoring. Now that may vary in different geographic areas, so your mileage may vary.
People seem to treat Echolink like an extension of a repeater, so perhaps it's best to use repeater etiquette on Echolink.
That is the proper procedure, but even then...crickets.
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(Grin) Yep. 65 years.....that's today's "whoops" moment. The older I get, the more such moments I have. My theory is that using CW helps keep the brain working. Moving to a retirement apartment has required me to downsize my radio station. I am now using ham-stick antennas from my balcony railing instead of full-size dipole antennas. FT8 works great from this location. CW and SSB activity are decreased because of the antenna limitations and band conditions, so this is where Echolink comes into play. It's a great alternative, and this is why I hope other hams will be responsive to the stranger's call on the local repeater. 73, W4OEQ
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To me calling CQ on a repeater is wrong. Check in with callsign and listening or monitoring as previously stated. My 2 cents worth.
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The demographics of ham radio suggest that it is top heavy with experience and leadership. But, when people get into a hobby, they often aren't looking for that.
FT8 is popular because you don't have to listen to anyone. PSK31 would be a great rag chew mode if people didn't insist on sending lengthy macros about their stations and personal data.
I found I could easily find other hams to chat with on PSK31 if I manually typed in everything instead of using macros. The cadence of my typing made my signal stand out.
Zak W1VT
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The demographics of ham radio suggest that it is top heavy with experience and leadership. But, when people get into a hobby, they often aren't looking for that.
FT8 is popular because you don't have to listen to anyone. PSK31 would be a great rag chew mode if people didn't insist on sending lengthy macros about their stations and personal data.
I found I could easily find other hams to chat with on PSK31 if I manually typed in everything instead of using macros. The cadence of my typing made my signal stand out.
Zak W1VT
I agree with you on ALL counts. Many (mostly those not on FT8) complain about the non-ability to converse on FT8. However that is PRECISELY the main reason for the popularity of FT8. Your observations on PSK31 are spot on too.
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The demographics of ham radio suggest that it is top heavy with experience and leadership. But, when people get into a hobby, they often aren't looking for that.
FT8 is popular because you don't have to listen to anyone. PSK31 would be a great rag chew mode if people didn't insist on sending lengthy macros about their stations and personal data.
I found I could easily find other hams to chat with on PSK31 if I manually typed in everything instead of using macros. The cadence of my typing made my signal stand out.
Zak W1VT
I agree with you on ALL counts. Many (mostly those not on FT8) complain about the non-ability to converse on FT8. However that is PRECISELY the main reason for the popularity of FT8. Your observations on PSK31 are spot on too.
Exactly.
On 20 meters today and here goes this guy's bragging...
"I'm using a 4 element StepIR and I don't even have the tower all the way up. That's because after today I'm going to my second home where I have a 3 element StepIR on a 65 foot tower. Why do I use STEPir? Because they work!!!"
First off, nobody asked him why he uses StepIR.
More importantly No One wants to listen to his egotistical bullsh**.
Maybe FT8 isn't so bad after all.
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The demographics of ham radio suggest that it is top heavy with experience and leadership. But, when people get into a hobby, they often aren't looking for that.
FT8 is popular because you don't have to listen to anyone. PSK31 would be a great rag chew mode if people didn't insist on sending lengthy macros about their stations and personal data.
I found I could easily find other hams to chat with on PSK31 if I manually typed in everything instead of using macros. The cadence of my typing made my signal stand out.
Zak W1VT
I agree with you on ALL counts. Many (mostly those not on FT8) complain about the non-ability to converse on FT8. However that is PRECISELY the main reason for the popularity of FT8. Your observations on PSK31 are spot on too.
Exactly.
On 20 meters today and here goes this guy's bragging...
"I'm using a 4 element StepIR and I don't even have the tower all the way up. That's because after today I'm going to my second home where I have a 3 element StepIR on a 65 foot tower. Why do I use STEPir? Because they work!!!"
First off, nobody asked him why he uses StepIR.
More importantly No One wants to listen to his egotistical bullsh**.
Maybe FT8 isn't so bad after all.
Your jealousy is showing!
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The demographics of ham radio suggest that it is top heavy with experience and leadership. But, when people get into a hobby, they often aren't looking for that.
FT8 is popular because you don't have to listen to anyone. PSK31 would be a great rag chew mode if people didn't insist on sending lengthy macros about their stations and personal data.
I found I could easily find other hams to chat with on PSK31 if I manually typed in everything instead of using macros. The cadence of my typing made my signal stand out.
Zak W1VT
I agree with you on ALL counts. Many (mostly those not on FT8) complain about the non-ability to converse on FT8. However that is PRECISELY the main reason for the popularity of FT8. Your observations on PSK31 are spot on too.
Exactly.
On 20 meters today and here goes this guy's bragging...
"I'm using a 4 element StepIR and I don't even have the tower all the way up. That's because after today I'm going to my second home where I have a 3 element StepIR on a 65 foot tower. Why do I use STEPir? Because they work!!!"
First off, nobody asked him why he uses StepIR.
More importantly No One wants to listen to his egotistical bullsh**.
Maybe FT8 isn't so bad after all.
Your jealousy is showing!
Nah... You must be one of those showoff types who says let me tell you about my modest station.
I have my share of toys but I realize there are many things far more important than the number of guitars, motorcycles and cars that I have in my collection.
But if your big tower makes up for your little tower, go for it good buddy.
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Many yutes have contempt for their elders.
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My QRZ.com profile page suggests that if you are in my log, you have an excellent chance of getting a QSL card to confirm Connecticut.
Zak W1VT
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FBI you guessed wrong. I own some tower and it's all laying on the ground.
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FBI you guessed wrong. I own some tower and it's all laying on the ground.
Well hopefully your towers will get up again someday. :'(
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The demographics of ham radio suggest that it is top heavy with experience and leadership. But, when people get into a hobby, they often aren't looking for that.
FT8 is popular because you don't have to listen to anyone. PSK31 would be a great rag chew mode if people didn't insist on sending lengthy macros about their stations and personal data.
I found I could easily find other hams to chat with on PSK31 if I manually typed in everything instead of using macros. The cadence of my typing made my signal stand out.
Zak W1VT
I agree with you on ALL counts. Many (mostly those not on FT8) complain about the non-ability to converse on FT8. However that is PRECISELY the main reason for the popularity of FT8. Your observations on PSK31 are spot on too.
Exactly.
On 20 meters today and here goes this guy's bragging...
"I'm using a 4 element StepIR and I don't even have the tower all the way up. That's because after today I'm going to my second home where I have a 3 element StepIR on a 65 foot tower. Why do I use STEPir? Because they work!!!"
First off, nobody asked him why he uses StepIR.
More importantly No One wants to listen to his egotistical bullsh**.
Maybe FT8 isn't so bad after all.
Oh, I LOVE those guys. It's like the story about the guy in the Cessna getting the speed check and it turning into a pissing contest until an SR-71 got a speed check. Thing is, bragging about towers.... I am flying the Sr-71. So I whip that out, and the I got an X tower that's such and such tall stops. Cuz until you HAVE to register your tower with the FCC and have a tower number.... your just playing around.... :)
(https://i.imgur.com/zYTTFB9.jpg)
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Now that’s a tower!
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Hello Tom,
Glad I was able to take some time to speak with you on the Michigan State Repeater. I had no idea you had spent two hours looking for someone to speak with.
I monitor most of my working day, but can only break free for 5 minutes or so to chat on the repeater.
On the other hand, if I know someone needs help, I will always stop working to take the call-out. Most are radio checks, but we had one ham broken down on the freeway needing information about the closest town for service.
John NU8M
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I enjoyed echolink when I checked in on the local repeater from the Philippines. It was also nice that I could get a message back home quickly if I needed to. Long distance phone calls are really expensive calling out of the Philippines. (At least on my budget.)
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I thought much the same.
Tried various nodes and repeaters.
Activity on only a few at any one time.
But it's a lot better now with Echolink's new CQ function.
It basically teams you up with others calling CQ.
I've had almost instant replies when I've used it.
This video may help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-8cx_LFE1Y
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Grandpa (think of 'Meet the Fockers'), retired biomedical engineer, 47 year ham, 40 WPM CW op, etc. It's all toilet paper stuck to my ego wall.
Oh man, this thread was a tough one at first.. kinda rough.. felt bad at a couple points.. but the thing evolved into a good time for all.
Not mentioned about my ego wall is a complete lack of knowledge of repeaters, handie talkies, 2m, 144, 220 or 'echolink'. What the hell is echo link? Haha, see man? I'm a 47 year ham and utterly ignorant :)
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As was mentioned once before. Use the new CQ feature on echolink, its the little green cq icon on the top bar. I've used it successfully several times. Sometimes you might have to wait a few minutes until someone somewhere also clicks on it. I've tried calling CQ before this feature came out, but don't remember ever making a contact. I don't monitor echolink the way I do a real radio, and probably not to many folks do, hence no listeners no contacts.
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I think hams just don't want to talk to each other any more. I throw out a "AB4KA/M monitoring" when I'm in my truck and I rarely get a response (of course there are folks that I don't want to talk to. There a local ham who talks about the virus every time he is on, yet he wonders why no one wants to talk to him). That's the reason I like nets, because at least then I get to talk to somebody, and CW also affords that opportunity (even if it is a signal reports and SKCC number). FT anything doesn't interest me as it seems to me the computer is doing all the work.
I have noticed, though that folks on DMR seem much more interested in carrying on a QSO, which is one reason I'm finding myself there more.
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Today's responses in my views where totally uncalled for. The gentlemen ask a questions and everyone just jumped all over him for no reason at all. I am orginally from Connecticut and back in the day people had more manners than what was shown this morning!!!!
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Today's responses in my views where totally uncalled for. The gentlemen ask a questions and everyone just jumped all over him for no reason at all. I am orginally from Connecticut and back in the day people had more manners than what was shown this morning!!!!
Back in the day 2 meters was active all the time in Connecticut. If we were back in the day we wouldn't need the internet to play radio. Back in the day we didn't even have Internet. Welcome to 2021 for better or for worse..
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I am interesting in the psychology of why hams don't seem to respond to calls made on Echolink
I know this is an old topic but I had to chime in with a first hand observation. I remember one time a new Ham that had been calling on the repeater throwing his callsign out. I was busy with something so I wasn't able to answer him. Another Ham did and he asked, "This is __(Callsign)__ is there something I can help you with? Do you need assistance?" The gentleman came back and said, "I was just looking to talk to someone on here". The other Ham came back to him and said, "Oh, there really isn't anyone on this repeater, no one talks on repeaters around here".
Sadly, Ham Radio IS HF. Plain and simple. You enter on 2 meters just to be told that Hams don't use 2 meters because it doesn't talk around the world. Repeaters are not reliable because in an emergency, they will go down and HF will be the only thing that will reliably work. Echolink? HA! That topic is even worse. I have gotten my head chewed off for using it because "Its not real Ham Radio". So, you are forced to upgrade and join the crowd on HF if you want to talk to someone. I know this is all a load of you know what. But it is what it is. I have been told or heard a lot more that I wont even mention here.
Many new Hams are told this and that HF is where its at. Its where all the Hams hang out. Some of these Hams will bad mouth repeaters and those that use them. This sort of behavior has been going on for a couple decades now and it only gets worse. It is disgusting and might be the reason you don't get an answer back. In some places, no one is there. If they are, CQ is not something people do on repeaters so they probably don't bother going against the norm. If new Hams are taught this way and the ones who have been Hams follow that, how are you going to have any activity on these bands?
Personally, yes, I have used DMR, and Echolink, and talked on repeaters. But I also like using 2 meter simplex. I view Ham Radio as a huge tool box. Its not one band against the other or one class license against another. If I happen to be out and about and don't have my radio, Echolink is very useful. Also when I want to check into the nightly traffic net in my old home state. Would I always use it? Absolutely not. In fact I haven't used it in just about a year. DMR? Again, I use it as needed. Repeaters are good when you need to reach many people too far out from you, but if I am in range of everyone who is talking, I use simplex and I only use the power necessary to reach all of them.
I am sorry you didn't make contact with anyone, but Ham Radio is what Hams make of it. I realize that this thing with repeaters isn't like this all over the place and there are many Hams who love Echolink but many pockets of the country are different and in some spots, you wont hear a single voice across the whole band.
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Scanned through the responses and didn't see the obvious answer. Maybe I missed it!
- Use the CQ function on the app. If you are using Echolink through a repeater or using another app, such as DVSwitch Mobile, the CQ function is not available.
- Check the settings. Make sure the app is set to "Direct", not "Relay". If set to relay, one is not able to connect to individuals who are connected via the relay. At least one of the callers must be using a direct connection.
- You can check to see if anyone is currently calling cq by looking here: https://secure.echolink.org/cqlist.jsp
- Sometimes, one must wait for awhile to get a response. I have waited up to 30 minutes.
I have had several interesting qso's using the cq calling function on the Echolink app. Hope you have some success with it!
Happy New Year!
Doug VE3XDB
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I don't use echolink much anymore, but I did notice that one of the newer versions has a CQ button on it. I've tried a few times to get a response and had about 50% success. It might be that you will only get a response from others who have clicked on the cq button and are willing to get a call. Probably most folks on echolink just use it when their uhf/vhf rig isn't available at the time, or they don't have a vhf/uhf rig. IMHO putting the cq feature on echolink was a great idea, and hopefully will get more use in the future. Just another possibility is try the PEANUT app.
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I can give you a couple ideas from my own person experience.
1. No one does CQ anything on a repeater. I know and have known many people who wont even answer a contester on VHF or UHF (and yes, I have heard people contest on both bands).
2. Now here is the real sad part - There was no one listening because no one uses repeaters. Well, I don't want to say no one, anywhere. Since the early 2000's, Hams have been getting coerced or chased off of repeaters by extra, advanced, and general class Hams onto HF to join the contesting crowd. Yes, chased off. I have heard of Hams telling other Hams that repeaters are for emergency use only. I have personally heard Hams telling newer Hams that "No one uses repeaters to talk on, if you want to have a QSO, you need to go on the HF bands". What is really funny is when I hear Hams talking about how they cant figure out why the 2 meters and 440 are so dead. I just recently heard that conversation the other day by a couple of HF'ers.
I am not sure what happened in your case because its different all over the United States when it comes to repeaters and echolink. I know places where repeaters are smoking night and day with QSO's and other parts where there are repeaters that sit and ID night and day and wont hear a single key up for over a month.
Simply put, people are enticed into Ham Radio with a Baofeng radio and a 2 meter repeater being told that in emergencies, Hams are the ones communicating when the communications go down (something I am yet to see happen). When people get their license and their little handheld and try talking on 2 meters, they get to have a short conversation a few times and eventually get told that there really isn't much on 2 meters or 440 and that their next step is to upgrade to general so they can talk where the real action is, on HF. From that point, that person either gets discouraged because it seems like they are just chasing the carrot and they hang up the hobby and get out of it, OR, they get their license upgrade and get on HF and are never heard from again on 2 meters. Anyone can fight me on this but I have been personally watching this exact scenario play out for years now. Its really sad, but if Hams want to know why, well, this is it. Hams are the only ones who make Ham Radio what is it. The equipment doesn't, the band conditions don't, the FCC doesn't, Baofeng doesn't, even digital voice doesn't, Hams DO.
I like using echolink when needed. It is a really good tool in Ham Radio. I think there probably would be more activity on it if it was linked to HF. I hope all works out with it for you. Keep at it, I am sure you will find a sweet spot that works.
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2021 post. Is the question even still valid? I have heard plenty of responses to CQ calls over our local repeaters connected via echolink lately.
-Mike.