eHam

eHam Forums => Licensing => Topic started by: WA2ISE on August 15, 2021, 04:30:23 PM

Title: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: WA2ISE on August 15, 2021, 04:30:23 PM
Heard that some Techs were caught on HF FT8 (outside 10m).  Not sure what the penalty for that is.  Thought crossed my mind that someone at the FCC might say "Upgrade to a General or Extra within a year, and we'll forget it ever happened".  A kind of incentive licensing, somewhat similar to a judge telling someone to behave for a year and if you do, we'll drop the charges'.

Yeah.
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: K7LZR on August 15, 2021, 05:40:01 PM
I doubt that anything will be done. Not like yesteryear when there was more enforcement. Seems like the ham bands have become freeband, where pretty much anything goes.....
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: K1VSK on August 15, 2021, 07:18:10 PM
The FCC will be assigning a czar to look into the “root cause”
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: W9IQ on August 15, 2021, 07:27:11 PM
The ARRL Volunteer Monitoring program reported Technician-class licensees in Spring Valley, Smith River, and Nipomo, California; Oneonta, New York; Idaho Falls, Idaho, and Center, Texas, received Advisory Notices concerning FT8 operation on frequencies not authorized to Technician licensees.

- Glenn W9IQ
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: KM1H on August 16, 2021, 05:09:57 PM
What happens if they do it again?  Is Riley going to wield the broadsword?
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: K0UA on August 16, 2021, 06:00:24 PM
One was caught today by a net control operator on a 40 meter SSB net. But the Tech was certain he was legal.
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: K1VSK on August 17, 2021, 07:34:58 AM
One was caught today by a net control operator on a 40 meter SSB net. But the Tech was certain he was legal.
In most activities, the lack of punitive action is often evidence of legality.
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: K3XR on August 17, 2021, 01:43:33 PM
Don't forget a certain portion of today's ham radio operators came from a rather lawless radio service.  Of course there is no way of knowing the origin of the miscreants mentioned in the infractions set forth in this thread.  If you were free to do what you please in another radio service why not believe you can do the same on the ham bands?
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: WW5F on August 17, 2021, 04:51:28 PM
More anecdotal evidence that there's a growing number of people who believe "rules for thee, but not for me."
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: W9IQ on August 17, 2021, 05:03:14 PM
Recalling my Novice days, I would like to think that the majority of these incidents are simply naiveté such that once advised, the infraction will not be repeated.

- Glenn W9IQ
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: K0UA on August 17, 2021, 07:47:57 PM
Recalling my Novice days, I would like to think that the majority of these incidents are simply naiveté such that once advised, the infraction will not be repeated.

- Glenn W9IQ

The one I referenced was that the tech latched on to the proposed new band plan allowing tech on SSB on several of the HF bands. He took this as settled law and operated accordingly.
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: W9IQ on August 18, 2021, 04:52:25 AM
Recalling my Novice days, I would like to think that the majority of these incidents are simply naiveté such that once advised, the infraction will not be repeated.

- Glenn W9IQ

The one I referenced was that the tech latched on to the proposed new band plan allowing tech on SSB on several of the HF bands. He took this as settled law and operated accordingly.

Those nasty skirts on the bell curve where all sorts of perturbations are found...

- Glenn W9IQ
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: WA2ISE on August 23, 2021, 05:58:08 AM
The ARRL Volunteer Monitoring program reported Technician-class licensees in ...., received Advisory Notices concerning FT8 operation on frequencies not authorized to Technician licensees.


I wonder if those advisory notices have an informal mention, beyond "don't do it again", that if you upgrade your license, you can "do it again" with no issues.  As people keep saying, the tests are not that hard.  And these techs must have HF rigs, they'd have a reason there to study up and upgrade.
 
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: N4KZ on August 24, 2021, 11:10:06 AM
I'd heard for a while that some tech licensees were operating on bands, modes and frequencies they were not authorized to use. But I hadn't heard any of that until one night I was reading the mail on a roundtable in the 75m extra class subband. A guy checked into the group and he was apparently known to some of the guys. Immediately, he was told, "You have a tech license. You are not supposed to use this part of the band." His solution was to continue talking with them but not give his callsign again. They should have shunned him but they didn't. On a related matter, I have called CQ on SSB in the 40m extra/advanced class subband and had general class people answer me. Two of them gleefully told me that they had recently upgraded from tech to general. In both cases, I calmly explained they were operating outside their authorized frequencies and that since I didn't want them to get into trouble for it, I would move up to the general portion of the band so we could continue our QSO. One apologized for his misdeed but just signed clear while the other took me up on my offer and we moved up the band and continued talking. He was very apologetic for his mistake and thanked me for moving up the band. He said he was nervous and not paying attention to the frequency display. I suspect some or even many of these incidents are honest mistakes. But not all. I've told the story before about my time in the 15m extra phone subband and a fellow with an advanced ticket answered my CQ. I calmly offered to move up the band to continue our QSO. But he declined and told me he had been operating in the various extra class subbands for 25 years with his advanced ticket and no one had ever made an issue of it. And then he topped it off by telling me, "I'm 83 years old. What are they going to do to me? Throw me in jail?" Then he let out a hardy laugh and signed clear. I just sat there in amazement. And it wasn't the good kind of amazement. 73, N4KZ
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: WA2ISE on August 24, 2021, 12:13:08 PM
... He was very apologetic for his mistake and thanked me for moving up the band. He said he was nervous and not paying attention to the frequency display. I suspect some or even many of these incidents are honest mistakes. ...
Having my extre means I don't have to worry about this issue.   :)
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: K3UIM on August 24, 2021, 02:50:00 PM
... He was very apologetic for his mistake and thanked me for moving up the band. He said he was nervous and not paying attention to the frequency display. I suspect some or even many of these incidents are honest mistakes. ...
Having my extre means I don't have to worry about this issue.   :)
And as long as my soldering pencil is on and working, me to!! ::) 8) ;D
Charlie
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: KM1H on September 01, 2021, 05:08:26 PM
Quote
Having my extre means I don't have to worry about this issue. 

Having my Extra longer than many have been alive and not bothering with ANY SSB nets means I dont have to be around those clowns who dont even know their license privileges.
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: N2EY on September 02, 2021, 08:56:38 AM
The first time, it may be an honest mistake.

After that.....not so much.

----

I find it.....interesting....that some folks who brag about how long they've been licensed will also brag elsewhere about how they run more than the legal limit (1500 watts PEP) on AM because they "consider themselves grandfathered".

Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: KA1CNK on September 07, 2021, 08:47:34 AM
On a related matter, I have called CQ on SSB in the 40m extra/advanced class subband and had general class people answer me. Two of them gleefully told me that they had recently upgraded from tech to general. In both cases, I calmly explained they were operating outside their authorized frequencies and that since I didn't want them to get into trouble for it, I would move up to the general portion of the band so we could continue our QSO. One apologized for his misdeed but just signed clear while the other took me up on my offer and we moved up the band and continued talking.

Do you look up every call before you answer it?  In a number of cases, that's likely the only way to determine license class.
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: K5NOK on September 08, 2021, 01:30:35 PM
I have an anecdotal tale for CNK.

In the last period of sunspots I was sitting in a dxpedition pileup in the Extra portion of 20 meters. I couldn't hear the DX but the East Coast was loud. To amuse myself while I hoped conditions changed in my favor, I started looking up call signs. I found Extra class operators up and down the East coast but the 5th lookup was a General class.
hmmm.
A few more and another General class and later yet a third General.
Now, maybe they had a Extra class control operator sitting next to them.  ?
It was one of the reefs that was activated last cycle. (Grin).
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: N2EY on September 08, 2021, 01:42:40 PM
I have an anecdotal tale for CNK.

In the last period of sunspots I was sitting in a dxpedition pileup in the Extra portion of 20 meters. I couldn't hear the DX but the East Coast was loud. To amuse myself while I hoped conditions changed in my favor, I started looking up call signs. I found Extra class operators up and down the East coast but the 5th lookup was a General class.
hmmm.
A few more and another General class and later yet a third General.
Now, maybe they had a Extra class control operator sitting next to them.  ?
It was one of the reefs that was activated last cycle. (Grin).

Even if there was an Extra as control operator, the operation wasn't legal if the callsign used was that of a General.

And of course such a Q would not count for DXCC.

Also, unless there is a third-party-traffic agreement between the USA and the reef in question....

73 de Jim, N2EY
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: W9IQ on September 08, 2021, 02:55:38 PM
Now, maybe they had a Extra class control operator sitting next to them?

If that were the case then 97.119(4)(e) would apply:

When the operator license class held by the control operator exceeds that of the station licensee, an indicator consisting of the call sign assigned to the control operator's station must be included after the call sign.

- Glenn W9IQ
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: N1KWW on February 22, 2022, 06:54:36 PM
I suspect with digital SDR's engrossed in answering stationa without first checking the frequency could, could happen!
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: N8NK on February 22, 2022, 07:55:51 PM
drip.. drip.. drip.....
The Great Dilution continues and is accelerating exponentially
N8NK
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: SWMAN on February 22, 2022, 07:59:51 PM
   Bailiff, Whack his pee pee.

Quote from Chech and Chong, 1978.
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: W5RG on February 22, 2022, 08:11:38 PM
Thank God we have the ARRL!!
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: KF4HR on February 22, 2022, 10:58:40 PM
I occasionally read where the FCC imposes fines and pulls licenses.  This News needs considerably more advertising.  Rules are only as good as the enforcement. 
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: NA4IT on February 23, 2022, 04:29:15 AM
What happens if they do it again?  Is Riley going to wield the broadsword?

Nah, the WufHong.
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: K1FBI on February 23, 2022, 05:43:50 AM
On a related matter, I have called CQ on SSB in the 40m extra/advanced class subband and had general class people answer me. Two of them gleefully told me that they had recently upgraded from tech to general. In both cases, I calmly explained they were operating outside their authorized frequencies and that since I didn't want them to get into trouble for it, I would move up to the general portion of the band so we could continue our QSO. One apologized for his misdeed but just signed clear while the other took me up on my offer and we moved up the band and continued talking.

Do you look up every call before you answer it?  In a number of cases, that's likely the only way to determine license class.
Only if you're looking to play Cop. I look up call signs but never check for license class.
Title: Re: Techs caught on HF FT8
Post by: WA9AFM on February 23, 2022, 08:41:49 AM
Once identified as operating out the terms of their license, tell them to move to their authorized segment and then cease any communications with them, i.e. treat them like a jammer and don't acknowledge.