eHam

eHam Forums => Portable Operations => Topic started by: AC9QC on October 25, 2021, 07:43:59 AM

Title: Asking permission for parks
Post by: AC9QC on October 25, 2021, 07:43:59 AM
Do you guys do anything of the sort or just kind of set up and go? If some times what makes you ask or not? In particular I'm thinking about the observation tower at this park, it looks like it'd be fun to work off of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapham_Peak_Unit%2C_Kettle_Moraine_State_Forest (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapham_Peak_Unit%2C_Kettle_Moraine_State_Forest)
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: K9DEG on October 25, 2021, 07:54:24 AM
Howard, I live near this park, about 4 miles away. This time of the year now that it's cold you'd have no problem on the tower but a week or two ago it was jammed with "leaf peepers". Probably best to ask if you had any cables etc in the way. I hear other people doing POTA from there. Probably do fine from a picnic table unless you were doing UHF/VHF. 73
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: W1VT on October 25, 2021, 08:00:59 AM
I used to write a permission letter to operate from Mt Greylock every year to operate the 10GHz contest.

It came in handy one year when their were two dueling bridezillas on the mountain at the same time as the 10GHz contest!
The park personal extended my written permission to my radio friends who were also there.

Zak W1VT
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: WA9AFM on October 25, 2021, 08:05:56 AM
I coordinated the 2016 ARRL Parks On The Air operations for the Oklahoma City National Memorial.

You should get permission for the appropriate agency to do any substantial operations at a public facility.  Small, portable ops probably wouldn't be a problem.  If you do ask for formal permission, get it in writing in case a park ranger or LEO questions your setup; they might have not gotten the 'memo'.

If you can get some ARRL literature promoting amateur radio, have that handy to present to visitors.

Finally, if you are operating, even with permission, and a range/LEO asks you to leave, do so without question as there might be a situation they don't have time to explain.

Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: NO9E on October 25, 2021, 10:57:47 AM
I operated from zillions of parks. Only one problem when I used a thick wire to top of a tree in a very public area, as no object could be attached to a tree. There would no problem if I used a thin wire suspended by a fishing line.

I would ask for permission if the operation is large in a crowded area. Otherwise it is not more engaging than cooking on a grill for which we need more permission. 

Ignacy NO9E
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: AC9QC on October 25, 2021, 12:41:20 PM
Howard, I live near this park, about 4 miles away. This time of the year now that it's cold you'd have no problem on the tower but a week or two ago it was jammed with "leaf peepers". Probably best to ask if you had any cables etc in the way. I hear other people doing POTA from there. Probably do fine from a picnic table unless you were doing UHF/VHF. 73

I'll be living about 6 miles north of it in a few weeks. Just gotta get there first!
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: KQ4KK on October 25, 2021, 02:04:56 PM
I did 2016 National Parks on the Air and never asked for permission. However I operated from my parked SUV using 100 watts and a full size TAR Heel antenna on the trailer hitch.
I have been doing POTA with the same setup. No issues. Just have to make sure the parking lot is within the real park boundaries. The state park rangers are a little more friendly with using their parks.
I know that most National Park rangers do not want you to string ropes/wires in any of "their" trees.
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: SWMAN on October 25, 2021, 03:05:42 PM
I say just do it, go for it !
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: K2WPM on October 25, 2021, 07:22:22 PM
Great thread.  Yes, this is, unfortunately, a question I ask myself every activation. 
If you ask permission (good boy), you risk an ignorant CYA bureaucrat-type shutting you down, just because that's easy.  Been there.  But there are other times when we should realize there exists a legitimate concern.  Such as: (1). Hundreds of feet of wire and coax in a crowded park, near where lots of people are; (2). Operating that might go after hours when the park is supposed to be closed ... even if you're only in a parking area; (3) Using a structure like a fire tower, as if it's yours alone to use ... ouch this one hurts the most. 
Generally, I look for an inconspicuous location, and don't ask permission.
GL and 73, David K2WPM
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: KC6RWI on October 25, 2021, 08:49:21 PM
I'd probably go for it, if its cold the parks can be empty.
But if you have Karens around or police with a bad reputation,
wouldn't it be nice to have permission?
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: K9DEG on October 25, 2021, 09:51:21 PM
I'll be living about 6 miles north of it in a few weeks. Just gotta get there first!


 Great, good luck with the move. You'll have 2 great repeaters within 6 miles of you. A powerhouse on VHF and a linked UHF system. And maybe when your new address data downloads to QRZ it will be correct this time. It says your present location is 366 miles from me.
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: W9FIB on October 26, 2021, 01:55:13 AM
Back in the 80's, W9HHX, the MSOE radio club had field day up there. Put a Mosley TA-33 on top of that tower.

At that time, the park was not open to the public and the club got special permission to use the sight. Had to bring our own ladder as the bottom set of stairs were removed at the time.

The 80M sloper worked quite well too.

Too crowded to do that now! Ah the college memories.
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: AC9QC on October 26, 2021, 04:42:51 AM
And maybe when your new address data downloads to QRZ it will be correct this time. It says your present location is 366 miles from me.

QRZ shows the correct address, it's about 150 miles from there based on what I'm seeing. It should be Joliet, are you sure you have the right call?
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: K3XR on October 26, 2021, 04:55:59 AM
I have never participated in POTA but do spend 4-5 weeks a year camping and operating in mostly (Pa) state parks.  I've always felt that paying for the use of my campsite includes attaching my push up fiberglass mast with vertical wire to the rear of my travel trailer.  Park rangers have never questioned the antenna in about 15 + years of operation. .  It might not be a bad idea if your not paying for a site to stop by the park office and ask if there are any restrictions on your operation in other areas of the park. 
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: W1MOW on October 26, 2021, 08:43:06 AM
The only time I ask for permission before hand is at National Parks. They have a tendency to get nervous about such things.

I use a minimum setup, just an Alpha Antennas FMJ vertical, radio, battery, and laptop. I always use a headset as to not bother people who are not used to the noise of a radio. (I learned early on, that some people don't appreciate the sound, and complain to whoever would listen.)

The only issue I ever had was from a "Soccer Mom" who got nervous when she saw me, and called the Police. The responding Officer was very friendly asked a couple of questions, and I even had him make a QSO, and he left. The "Soccer Mom" just spent the next hour staring at me.

Go out and operate!

Gary W1MOW
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: N7EKU on October 26, 2021, 07:21:10 PM
Hi,

Most parks and national forests request or require a "leave no trace" policy.  This would include leaving behind stuck cords or fishing lines in trees etc.  These are actually a real problem as wildlife can easily become entangled in these lines and die a sad death of strangulation or starvation.

73,


Mark
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: KB9BVN on February 22, 2022, 01:15:01 AM
I have never had to ask for permission but that varies from state to state and depending on the type of park.  If a national park, I think you have to apply for a permit to operate.  I'm in Indiana nad I have yet to have to ask for written permission.
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: KF4HR on February 22, 2022, 06:41:17 AM
I prefer SOTA (Shacks on the air).  Less hassle. :)
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: WA8NVW on March 21, 2022, 02:13:26 PM
If Amateur radio has a seat inside your state's EOC like the DNR does, those folks can often "grease" the permit process for you.  They might also make introductions between you and local staff at the park you want to activate. 
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: K2WPM on April 11, 2022, 05:20:22 AM
Are there hams who do POTA using mobile antennas?
This may avoid the whole issue, where it's a problem.

I have worked on a mobile dipole for the back of the pickup....
What do you use, and how well does it work?

David, K2WPM
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: AE5X on April 15, 2022, 04:57:55 PM
Are there hams who do POTA using mobile antennas?
This may avoid the whole issue, where it's a problem.

When no trees are available I use a HamStick mounted to a (photography) lightstand. RF ground comes from 3 or 4 1/4-wave radials extending from the elevated (10 feet) feedpoint.

Sometimes I use a 17-ft telescoping whip (MFJ-1979) in the same manner.

Works fine, even with QRP gear - lightweight, cheap, portable.
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: N8AUC on April 20, 2022, 07:27:57 PM
I used to write a permission letter to operate from Mt Greylock every year to operate the 10GHz contest.

It came in handy one year when their were two dueling bridezillas on the mountain at the same time as the 10GHz contest!
The park personal extended my written permission to my radio friends who were also there.

Zak W1VT

Bridezillas? Now that paints a vivid mental picture.
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: K5LXP on April 29, 2022, 07:35:42 AM
I've set up some pretty involved antennas while camping and the greatest challenge was the question WTH is that?  From the perspective of recreational use I don't see a huge difference between setting up a portable antenna or a portable ez-up structure or screen tent.  Judging by the number of campers I've seen over the years that set up a campsite that would make Ma and Pa Kettle blush, the innocuous vertical or wire in a tree isn't on the radar.  After decades of operating so far I have yet to be told to cease, so onward I go.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: KA4KOE on August 29, 2022, 09:39:36 AM
FT. Pulaski near Savannah, as usual, no lines in trees. Also, no stakes to hold taught ground wires.
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: K0UA on August 29, 2022, 08:13:14 PM
Are there hams who do POTA using mobile antennas?
This may avoid the whole issue, where it's a problem.

I have worked on a mobile dipole for the back of the pickup....
What do you use, and how well does it work?

David, K2WPM

Yes, this is my preferred method of operation. I have used the 4 foot whip on my Little Tarheel II on my 2010 Silverado and it works well, and I have used it with a 24 foot piece of wire added to the whip supported by my 20 foot fiberglass telescoping fishing pole diagonally across the bed with a fitting for sticking in one of the bed stake holes. And it works EXTREMELY well.  Last deployment I worked 50 stations in 30 minutes.  Set up or tear down is less than 2 minutes total.  If you had a car not a truck to support a fishing pole,  Then park under a tree and throw a water bottle in the tree with a string and pull up a long whip, attach it to the Tarheel and resonate it.   With the screwdriver antenna you have an inductive tuner right there. As long as the wire is still capacitive (too short for a 1/4 wave for the band) you have the ability to resonate it.  For 20 meters you just need under 16 feet of wire, so I put a tiny insulator in the 24 foot wire and jump around it when using it for the lower bands.
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: N4MJG on November 14, 2022, 08:37:39 AM
I done the same to do ham radio in park saying sure i said ok !!! most place won't let you do ham radio in the park it don't hurt to ask anyway !

73
Jackie
N4MJG
SKCC 7305 SINCE  2005
NAQCC 5233
OMISS 11548
PREFER EQSL
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: N2TO on December 01, 2022, 07:52:43 AM
I bought masts from The Mast Co (tnx Glenn AE0Q for that!) and tire mount from Flagpole-to-Go. I made a 20M 1/4-wave vertical with two raised 1/4-wave radials. I made two 1:1 common mode chokes; one at the feed point and one at the rig. I was looking for a standalone solution to not use the trees.

To support radials when I cannot use something in the park I use one gallon bottles of water. Will be adding square dowels to the bottles to raise the ends more. It works really well.

Next will be 17M and 15M 1/4-wave verticals. And a doublet when it gets warmer.

73 Kevin N2TO
Title: Re: Asking permission for parks
Post by: W0LMS on December 28, 2022, 08:58:18 AM
I have never asked for permission as a single operator or with a friend, I agree with other comments, if you are doing a major activation with a group then it is prudent to inform them versus asking for permission. Many parks require permits for large events, so I would look at that as it may apply.
For POTA, no need to ask or inform in my humble opinion.