eHam
eHam Forums => QRP => Topic started by: KO7I on June 29, 2022, 02:27:17 PM
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W7TST 2B2B EWA FD 2022.
Running 5W QRP is mainly a search and pounce kind of operation.
5W QRP is a test of patience, it is equivalent to pounding your head on a door for 24 hrs straight. Then at the end of the event, when you tally up the QSO points, it is as if that damn door opens. Laying behind that door, you find a pot of gold!
I will be honest, doing a 4AB 5W QRP, with 2 contest grade CW Ops, and 2 contest grade FT8 ops, would be a hoot. This is where achieving top placing scores for FD is headed.
73, Don KO7i
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Our local club ran QRP for a few years to reduce overload.
Then switched to 100W because they were making so few contacts.
But, as the only CW operator, I didn't notice a lot of difference in
my contact rate between the two power levels: I was more limited
by rusty skills and running out of stations to work than anything else.
It made a big difference for the SSB operators, however.
We always put the best antennas on the SSB stations, as they need
all the help they can get, then it isn't unusual for me to make as
many contacts on CW as all the phone stations together, even without
staying up all night. But our SSB operators aren't serious contesters,
either, and are somewhat shy about wading into pile-ups or working
weak stations. My goal is to give them good enough antennas that
they can make plenty of contacts, so they have a good time.
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our club did it at the peak of a cycle with really good antennas
(yagis and wire beams) with numbers of QSOs nearing the
prior year at 100W. Didn't hurt that 100W was 2points and
5W was 5points per QSO.
The upside far less interference and it allowed battery ops (quieter RF).
The down side, you really need a solar peak.
However we are going up the curve. so it has potential.
This year poor conditions and 6 was nearly dead and that was with
beams for every band 40-6.
Conditions and location. IF QRP is your thing use good antennas
and work from the highest spot you can.
Allison
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Good points from WB6BYU & KB1GMX. Not a single thing said that I disagree with. Operating 5W QRP SSB during Field Day is really rough. Extremely challenging.
Operating 5W QRP for CW of FT8 can be much more productive.
There is a handicap imposed on a 2B2B entry, only 2 hams can participate in setup and tear down. But actually, that was not too much of an issue. By Friday 3pm all of our antenna's were hung.
For 10-20M we hung a tri-band yagi between a pair of 80 ft tall fir trees. The tri-band yagi was fed with a tri-plexer.
On 40M We had 2 delta loops (ON4UN design's) hung with ~300 ft separation. This allowed 40M CW and FT8 to operate same band - same time.
On 80M we used a NVIS OCF dipole - I was not impressed with it. Next year it will be replaced with something much better. Most likely we will use a low take off angle delta loop.
Many times we were working stations on the 1st or 2nd call. Never more than 3 calls.
What Allison has stated is correct, efficient antenna's make a BIG difference.
We did make one screw up this year. We failed to install a 2nd 20M capable antenna to allow CW & FT8 to run on the same band at the same time.
With 5W qrp, you have to remember that you are only 13dB down from 100W, which is on average for most receivers 2 "S-units."
I used my K-3S on CW and my partner used his FT-991 on FT8. I am an extremely hardcore CW OP, and I have to say I was SUPER impressed with my buddy's success on FT8.
I am getting too long winded. Lots more to say. :)
73, Don KO7i
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...Conditions and location. IF QRP is your thing use good antennas
and work from the highest spot you can.
Height is important at VHF/UHF.
Ground slope is more important on HF.
Case in point: we used an overlook area for several years -
not the highest spot, but had a good view to the East and
South. It had a pretty steep slope down to the East, dropping
down to a road, then another 600' or more to the valley floor.
While VHF antennas did pretty well anywhere in the flat area,
HF antennas worked noticeably better the closer we got to
the edge of the dropoff. My rule of thumb is to be within
twice the height of the mast for best low angle radiation.
Our most recent site has a lodge on top of a hill, and we
still crowd the HF antennas at the edge, or just down the
side of the hill a bit, for best effect.
It may be worthwhile running the HF Terrain Analyzer
software on your proposed site to find the optimum height
for each band if you want to make the most of it.
Of course, that assumes you have hills to work with...
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Actually, we operate from the side of a mountain from a bench cut into the side of the mountain for logging. It has an unobstructed view of the horizon 80 miles in the distance from the NE to the SSW at about 4,000ft in elevation. It is a perfect spot to operate from here in the NW. We point the yagi's at New Mexico / W Texas and never move them.
We do not get a lot of the 1st call district but get plenty of everywhere else.
Our facebook page is ARRL Field Day 2022 W7TST 2B EWA. We have pictures of the site there.
73, Don KO7i
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From NW Oregon we point due East. Texas and New Mexico aren't
in the main beam, but with the shorter paths and single hop
propagation, we don't need as much power to work them.
Most of the East Coast is 2 hops from here: single hop distance
seems to stop around the west edge of PA / WVA. Often we
work the coastal states on CW, but not on SSB.
I have a great circle map in this article (https://practicalantennas.com/applications/portable/fieldday/).
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I have a great circle map in this article (https://practicalantennas.com/applications/portable/fieldday/).
Nice website. good info. I have been doing pretty much the same. Pretty straight forward stuff.
We swing our antennas further to the south because we are running low power. However this past FD on Sunday the morning path to the east coast from EWA opened up, plus I think the east coast ops were willing to dig out the QRP stations because they had too in order to maintain QSO rate.
I prefer to use vertically polarized antennas for 40 & 80 meters. To get a 40 or 80 meter horizontally polarized antenna a 1/2 wavelength high is very challenging under field day conditions. Achieving 33 ft high with a 10-20M yagi is very doable.
73, Don KO7i
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The Maury ARC (W4GGM 5A TN) ran QRP CW in 2021 and 2022. Last year we used a K1 into an EFHW and made 62 Qs. This year was with a K2 and we ran a BLISTERING 9 watts into an EFHW in an inverted vee fashion. We made 177 contacts this year and could have made more but I ran of gas around 10:30 AM (all the stations ran off solar panels and batteries).
The reason for the QRP effort was to minimize the QRM between the phone and stations. The last few years there was QRM between the phone, CW AND digital stations, even with the use of filters. This year we moved the digital station and its antenna out 200+ feet and one of the phone stations out 300 feet. The other phone and GOTA station (also phone) and the CW station were within 50 feet of each other. The GOTA station ran 50 watts and all stations pretty much followed the band plan of who's on what band and when.
This year we did not have any interstation QRM at all and everyone had a great time at FD. We totaled 540 contacts, including one with NA1SS, as well as with Zimbabwe, Fiji, Cayman Islands, Cuba, and Hawaii.
Paul WB0CJB
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... the morning path to the east coast from EWA opened up, plus I think the east coast ops were willing to dig out the QRP stations because they had too in order to maintain QSO rate...
I usually work the East Coast from NW Oregon, especially
New England, even running QRP (on CW). One year my
opening contact was Vermont on 40m, at 11 AM PDT.
I often make a game of trying to work all 50 states on
Field Day. The best I’ve done is 47, running QRP to
dipoles, and operating for about 8 hours.
I prefer to use vertically polarized antennas for 40 & 80 meters. To get a 40 or 80 meter horizontally polarized antenna a 1/2 wavelength high is very challenging under field day conditions.
Tall trees help, but that’s where the ground slope is important.
Sloping ground lowers the angle of radiation in the downhill
direction. As a rough estimate, think of it as tilting the
radiation pattern by the slope angle. It’s not that simple,
and the slope has to continue for some distance for it to
be effective. It also requires having the antennas near
the edge of the slope, or at least close enough to it that
the RF at the desired angle misses the local ground.
Our 40m antennas are usually up 50-60’ in the trees,
and that works pretty well. I’m not a night owl, and
rarely use 80m on Field Day, but our late shift SSB
operators are mostly working the western half of the
country, so low angle isn't as important.
...Achieving 33 ft high with a 10-20M yagi is very doable.
We usually put my TA-33jr up at 28’ or 32’ using the 4’
heavy aluminum military mast sections. Goes up easily
with 2-3 people. I as going to see if I could do it by
myself one year, but when someone offered to help, I
wasn’t going to refuse.
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One key to the success of QRP is CW. But the most important thing is an effective antenna.
A few years ago my friend and I ran QRP FD with my KX3 at 5 watts out CW only. We placed third
in the Atlantic division.
The first time he and I set up for QRP FD, he asked me what the mic was for. I told him I was going to give
SSB a try. When it was my turn to operate, it took me about 2 minutes to realize SSB was not going to cut it. The mic got unplugged and we were then 100% CW.
I would suggest you either run digital or CW and put the mic in storage.
Barry, KU3X
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Barry,
Your summary is spot on. I agree completely.
I have some ideas to improve the 80M antenna(s).
73, Don KO7i
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I've gotta get up the nerve to try running at QRP levels for FD again.
Did once many years ago with an Argonaut 509 and had a blast.
Problem is, everyone else in our group doesn't want to do that, and I think you only get the 5x multiplier
if everyone at your site is QRP.
We were at 40 watts CW for Field Day, and just about anything we could hear, we worked.
Antenna was a 20 m dipole, and an 80 m dipole with the feed point up 20' in a fairly open field.
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Location makes a big difference!
From the Eastern US there are lots of stations in short
hop range. Here in the Pacific Northwest, hams are
relatively sparse in the thousand miles from here to
Denver. 40m and 80m are pretty good up and down
the coast, and out to Arizona, along with 20m to
Southern California, depending on how far the band
is open.
At one point I had some plots of distance vs. number
of FD entries, and it was quite enlightening. As a
result, the antenna requirements chance with location.
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I've had very acceptable results from WA out to IL/OH, south to TN/MS and west to CA running 5w QRP 15, 20, & 40. On 80 it is limited to the NW.
73, Don KO7I
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........Problem is, everyone else in our group doesn't want to do that, and I think you only get the 5x multiplier if everyone at your site is QRP.
I suggested QRP to our local club. Like you, nobody else wanted to go that route either. Hence the reason my friend and I set up our own QRP FD.
Like WB6BYU said....."Location". How true that is !
I live on the east coast and my one friend lives in Floydsknobs, IN. We were talking contests. He pointed out to me that for a stateside contest he is much better off where he is compared to where I am. How true. To my east.....water. For him no matter what direction he looks, he has lots of state side stations that he can work.
Barry, KU3X
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...I live on the east coast and my one friend lives in Floydsknobs, IN. We were talking contests. He pointed out to me that for a stateside contest he is much better off where he is compared to where I am. How true. To my east.....water. For him no matter what direction he looks, he has lots of state side stations that he can work.
Of course, a station on the coast can use a beam pointed inland
without missing too many stations. (We can always work KH6
and KL7 regardless of our antenna, due to the shorter path
lengths.)
But it is a function of both direction and distance. Here in
Oregon we have to work longer distances to contact the
same number of stations as a station on the East coast.
And Indiana can work both coasts on single-hop paths,
while we need two hops to cover the East coast.
All of those are factors to be considered if you are trying
to optimize for maximum contacts, or just see how many
states you can work.
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Just about all my FD operations have been QRP from the west coast. As you say, it's all S&P. CW is the way to go and running wire antennas I'd usually get a bit above 400 QSOs. One year propagation was really poor and after two hours I upped it to 100W.
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Location makes a big difference!
exactly, soil composition and conductivity affect propagation often drastically.
an antenna that gets excellent results in LA will have a much different result in Georgia or Maine.
given your location its a bit of a crap shoot to depend on manufacturers specs or even modeling software.
you can get an idea from the simulation, but unless you actually map out the nulls and lobes, its just a best guess.
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qRP? the antenna is everything...look forward to working U next Field Day
73/GL
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This is a late post.
One reason why SSB is hard with qrp radios is poor speech processors. Kx2, kx3, ft817 etc have inefficient signal. Drive them with tentec 715 and they sound like an amp was added.
Using regular higher level radios throttled down to 5w solves the problem.
Ignacy NO9E
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I know this is an old thread, but I worked with Barry, KU3X, on our two man CW only, QRP field day.
We made 607 Qs. We worked Hawaii and Alaska (quite and achievement with 5w from the east coast). We even managed to work F5IN on the 80 meters.
I didn't laugh too hard when Barry tried SSB. ;D
We had a lot of fun.
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A number years ago I did a 2A QRP FD with the Buena Vista, CO club from the top of Poncha Pass. Poncha is between Salida and Saguache, CO (pronounced SA-WATCH). Despite wasting a station on SSB (not enough CW ops, classic FD problem) we still finished 3rd nationally.
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I ran two FDs as 1B-Battery, one EPA and another WNY. CW and SSB 5W. Ten-Tec Scout on CW and MFJ-9420 and MFJ-9440 on SSB. The MFJ rigs had excellent processor. I ensured all were 5W out on SLA battery. 67' doublet. Did well, cannot find results, still Googling. S&P. Maybe have paperwork.
73 Kevin N2TO
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2000 EPA 1B-Battery 5W 188 QSOs. SFI now is what it was about then. Didn't give it a full blast effort. Stayed with YL's family so worked around dinner Saturday, etc. Oper Sunday morning on 40M before heading home.
73 Kevin N2TO
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N4OGW FD 2007: 954 cw qsos QRP/1B (single radio, not so2r). I used a K2 @5W and two ladder-line fed dipoles.
Single transmitter qrp FD is fun because you can always pick the band that has the best propagation. Multi-transmitter qrp is not as fun because it is very tough on ssb and on the bands with not so good propagation.
Tor N4OGW
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The majority of my ARRL Field Day operations have been QRP. A group of us operated many times in 1C mobile class QRP from a sailboat moored at Catalina Island in California. It was just about all S&P with ~400 Qs achieved.
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The local club decided to run QRP to reduce interference
among stations. After 2 very frustrating years, they went
back to 100 watts, where it was much easier to make
contacts on SSB.
It didn't really make much difference for me, the only CW
operator. I'd still make 200 - 300 QSOs, depending on
how long I stayed at the site. (I like a real bed sometimes.)
My limiting factor was my CW skills, rather than the output
power.
But it was a huge difference for the SSB stations. We'd always
give them the best antennas, and they would struggle for
just a few contacts. They didn't have to struggle nearly as
hard at 100W, and Field Day was a lot more fun. I'm sure
that attention to output power and effective speech processing
would help further, but these weren't serious operators.
I'd still usually make more contacts on CW than all three SSB
stations combined, but they came closer to parity.