eHam
eHam Forums => Clubs => Topic started by: W5OT on July 16, 2022, 08:39:11 AM
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I joined a local club a few years ago. They had friday evening meetings that I was able to attend. (work out of state during the week). They had 100+ members with regular meeting attendance of 50-80 people. Multiple linked repeater locations, weekly sunday night net, massive Field Day participation, monthly field excursions, an annual swap meet, good prestige among the community and other local clubs...............
Then they start making changes. First was the repeater committee deciding to convert their most popular and used repeater to Yeasu system fusion and unlinking it from their network. This was a COMMITTEE decision, not a membership decision. Now, over half of the membership is kicked off the weekly sunday night net. (I'm sure as heck NOT buying a special radio just to check in and say "no traffic" on a sunday night.) Unlinking the repeater and disposing of Echolink now has alienated a good group of snowbirds that are (were) members also. Then, the executive committee decided they want to build a nice big HF remote station for the club. But it's expensive and they have a 5 year plan and need to raise the annual membership dues from $25/year to $125/year. This is an EXECUTIVE committee decision, not a membership decision. Well, crap hits the fan, special meetings are called, the whole situation just blows up, and the net result is that over half the clubs members just up and leave. Some of the leaders of the Field Day ops and monthly excursions decide to splinter off and form their own club.
Then..........COVID hits. They go to ZOOM meetings only. I for one am NOT buying a camera and microphone just to look at a bunch of people on my computer screen. Memberships continues to decline. I'm not sure where they are now.....but I've looked at their financial reports, and they ain't doing good boys and girls.
They have finally decided to return their primary repeater to analog because no one was using the Yeasu system fusion machine. They abandoned the $125 increase in annual dues, and as of a few months ago, resumed in person monthly club meetings. I decided to attend one just to see if I might be interested in returning. SIGH.......it was a joke. Sure, they had a nice ZOOM presentation about contesting, but the atmosphere was somber and just a shell of what it used to be. A TOTAL of 15 people present and a couple people dialed in for the ZOOM presentation.
What put the nail in the coffin for me was when the ZOOM presenter asked if the club has participated in Field Day this year. There was an "excuse" given that due to Covid, they ran out of time to find a location. The real reason being that all the people that set up and participated in Field Day left the club and formed their own club and they couldn't scrape the people/equipment/location together to do it.
So, the moral of the story boys and girls, if you don't want to run your club into the ground.......ASK your membership about any changes you are thinking about making first. Just doing things by executive committee and pissing off your membership is NOT the way to keep a club successful.
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Yup. I'm by myself these days, too. Dropped out of two clubs. Last one before this covid thing became an issue. One for pretty much the same reasons you listed, the other one because it's just a social "eatin" club. (Both are now almost begging me to come back--pass, no thanks, don't need you, don't want you, thanks anyway.)
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Wow, I had a very similar experience. Not so much about dues or specialized repeaters, but the "executive decisions" that were made and other critical ones deferred, also NOT securing a place for field day.
My club had a strong core membership turnout of 30 more or less who would show up to meetings.
The problems started when the president decided that he would run the club when he felt like or had absolutely nothing better to do. The meeting schedule was changed to HIS convenience without input from the members
There was virtually NO planning, thus no club activities.
As if that wasn't bad enough, then Covid hit. The zoom meetings were dreary and dismal. Then he decided to go "covid crazy" . We can't do this, we can't do that, all because of covid. BALONEY!!!!
I spoke up about finding a meeting venue and doing more, but was shot down by the president. There weren't enough people attending the Zoom meeting ( maybe 5!) to make any input or have a meaningful discussion.
To give an idea of the level of BS/paranoia ,the "in person meetings" were only reinstated last month!
There has been no club field day for 3 years including this year.
Another local club, in contrast, is still doing well. They reinstated meetings as soon as they could while also offering a Zoom "simulcast, which they tell me they are going to continue for the elderly hams.
They also had a well attended field day.- like covid never happened!
I guess the take away here is to not be afraid to speak up at meetings if things are going south.
In retrospect, I should have called some other member to find 'like minded" individuals and have them attend the meeting to have their voices heard.
Maybe the club would have survived...
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Sadly this holds true for a lot of different organizations. Things are running just fine and a select group who thinks they know what's better for everyone else steps in. I seen this first hand in a local radio club as well as a sportsman's club. I belong to neither now. Its happening in quite famous national organizations currently too. Its just sad.
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Another way I would think can contribute to a death of a club is arrogance. I moved to NC from Florida and attempted to join a local ham radio club in Statesville, NC which is about 12 miles sway from my QTH. Emailed them 3 times and never received a a reply back from anyone there. I erroneously assumed that every club would be more than happy to sign up new members but guess that I was wrong when I tried joining this outfit.
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Well, I was in agreement until you mentioned the transition to Zoom meetings due to COVID. Our local club did the Zoom thing and it worked out just fine. It wasn't reasonable to ask people to gather indoors during a pandemic (still isn't, according to the local case numbers here).
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If things are working well, LEAVE THEM ALONE, instead of feeling like you always need to be changing something.
73 John AF5CC
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Like it or not, the trend now-a-days seems to be the minority speaks for (and controls), the majority. Many prefer democratic type decisions (especially given the high dues you mentioned).
If you enjoy the club environment consider there are several options: run for a committee position, or finding a new club, start your own club. GL
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But it's expensive and they have a 5 year plan and need to raise the annual membership dues from $25/year to $125/year.
They made bad decisions from perspective of a person where $125 dues are high. For a club aiming at a better repeater and a remote HF station.
You cannot please everybody.
I visited a PI4CC club in the Netherlands. See
https://www.pi4cc.nl
Their contributions must be in the thousands per year. They have fun.
Ignacy NO9E
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Yup. There are a few clubs in my area, but some don't do anything except a lunchtime get together of the old regulars, so very few folks of working age can participate. Club websites haven't been updated in over a year. And we wonder why ham radio interest is flagging.
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I have never been in a Ham club, but decided to visit the general meetings of two local ones.
First one, a bit far from home, was well attended. People saw I was new, and introduced themselves. Meeting was quick business, a short tech presentation, then social hour, coffee etc. We were invited to an after meeting at a local Pizza parlor. Nice people, well run club. But, a bit far for me.
Second one, much closer to home. I showed up at Field Day as a possible member. Emailed them in advance asking if I could help. No response. When I showed up, I offered to spell an op. Some slob said, 'sure, take the 6M USB station while I take a piss. Band's dead anyway'. Nice intro there.
I hung around for a hour or so, chatting with two other men who had come with their teen sons. There had been an article in a local paper about Field Day, and the men thought the kids would be interested. No one even talked to them, no one offered to have them make contacts.
Soon, club ops said it was time to tear down. I asked what I could do to help, on guy said 'Roll up coax' So I started. About a minute later, he start screaming at me that I wasn't rolling it correctly. Just about the same time, another guy backed his truck into the portable tower, knocking it down. More screaming ensued.
I just walked away. And no doubt the hobby of Ham Radio did not have it's finest day of impressing the public.
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Our local ham club is a shell of its former self. Its been on life support for years. Sad.
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Beware the tyranny of a minority. >:(
Nev
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I joined a local club a few years ago. We have many members on the roster who never show up (which is probably true of many organizations), but we also have some members who are very active. The dues haven't changed from the $30 that its been since I joined. We have repeaters for vhf, 220 and uhf (even though I never hear anyone on 220. Our monthly meetings are held in a beautiful new location preceded by our board meetings. We work well with other local clubs and have members who are members of several clubs. Covid actually expanded our membership, possibly due to the Covid net we ran each week and coordinated with another club who ran a covid net on a different night. There are no ego problems and decisions are always discussed.
Every month we have a VE session and get at least 5 new applicants to take the test. I am fortunate to be in an area where there are many clubs and repeaters, and the hams all get along well. If the dues were to be raised to $125.00, no matter how good the club is I would regretfully have to leave it. That price raise could buy me a new radio every year.
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A lot of clubs are nothing more than ROMEO'S. Retired Old Men Eating Out.
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If you read the first paragraph of W5OT's OP, you can see many of the ingredients of a successful club (of any hobby I believe)... a good, diverse set of activities and interests that cater to many types of members who share a main common interest.
It's not easy to keep multiple activities ongoing (meeting presentations, repeater management, field day, hamfest, digital nodes, contesting, public demos, etc), so the executive needs to plan and delegate for club members to own something and organize it.
As soon as a hobby club starts narrowing its field of interest and activity, or prioritizing just one thing, it can expect to narrow its membership too.
73, Ed
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Most volunteer things are almost doomed from the start. The personality type that dominates the ham hobby escalates downturns. If we promoted leaders with high social skills and low self-assessed superiority rather than the opposite we might do quite well
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The club I belong to was originally built from the ashes of another club. I don't know the history of that dissolution as it was before my time. The club now however has been around for quite a long time and probably seven or eight years ago we formed a 501(c)(3) organization which has some rules that actually helps us in many ways. Yes, there are some tax advantages when it comes to fundraising etc, but how this pertains to the discussion at hand is no one person or committee is allowed to make decisions under the law. Meticulous meeting minutes have to be taken, published, and items are brought up and voted on. If the majority doesn't accept it then it is not passed. We need to not operate our clubs as if they are free wheeling but rather as the organizations that they are. Even large families when they hold reunions may come up with a committee but because of the family ties they tend to be a bit better organized. The underlining importance here however is again the requirement that nothing is done by committee. We have committees, but they will only make recommendations and things get done after it is voted on at our meetings.
I think the bigger issue wasn't brought up, is the longevity of clubs in this particular hobby. Perhaps this is true with many if not most other hobbies out there, which is the younger generation is so distracted by social media they take very little interest in this technology which they view as antiquated. We need to do a better job at showcasing and openly involving younger visitors who may wander in. If you, right now, are a member of a club somewhere and you reflect on the median age of that organization or club, is it getting older? If so, it doesn't really matter if the club becomes a 501(c)(3) organization because the club simply will not exist in a few years. It might be best to form a real organization and is governed not by committees but by rules and begin to bring in younger hams so that we can lower the median age of our membership ranks. As that happens and younger hams raise items that they would like to see done like anything else it will be voted on. This hobby needs to stop being an old man's club but rather something for everyone.
GL,
Glen
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The club I belong to was originally built from the ashes of another club. I don't know the history of that dissolution as it was before my time. The club now however has been around for quite a long time and probably seven or eight years ago we formed a 501(c)(3) organization which has some rules that actually helps us in many ways. Yes, there are some tax advantages when it comes to fundraising etc, but how this pertains to the discussion at hand is no one person or committee is allowed to make decisions under the law. Meticulous meeting minutes have to be taken, published, and items are brought up and voted on. If the majority doesn't accept it then it is not passed. We need to not operate our clubs as if they are free wheeling but rather as the organizations that they are. Even large families when they hold reunions may come up with a committee but because of the family ties they tend to be a bit better organized. The underlining importance here however is again the requirement that nothing is done by committee. We have committees, but they will only make recommendations and things get done after it is voted on at our meetings.
I think the bigger issue wasn't brought up, is the longevity of clubs in this particular hobby. Perhaps this is true with many if not most other hobbies out there, which is the younger generation is so distracted by social media they take very little interest in this technology which they view as antiquated. We need to do a better job at showcasing and openly involving younger visitors who may wander in. If you, right now, are a member of a club somewhere and you reflect on the median age of that organization or club, is it getting older? If so, it doesn't really matter if the club becomes a 501(c)(3) organization because the club simply will not exist in a few years. It might be best to form a real organization and is governed not by committees but by rules and begin to bring in younger hams so that we can lower the median age of our membership ranks. As that happens and younger hams raise items that they would like to see done like anything else it will be voted on. This hobby needs to stop being an old man's club but rather something for everyone.
GL,
Glen
Very good info
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Without good leadership, a ham club is doomed these days.
I was a student of leadership for many years (in the U.S. Air Force), and I'm pretty sure I could step into the president's slot of a failing club today and get things back up and running.
I did it back in the early 80s. (Keesler AFB Amateur Radio Club, K5TYP, membership increased from 12 to 80 in one year.) It's about promoting what interests your members. It's about giving them the authority and recognition of stepping up and becoming leaders themselves. And most importantly, it's about squashing the naysayers.
But I don't know why I'd want to do that these days. It would be work without pay. My interests in ham radio are no where near the interests of the brand new ham of today.
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Sadly this holds true for a lot of different organizations. Things are running just fine and a select group who thinks they know what's better for everyone else steps in. I seen this first hand in a local radio club as well as a sportsman's club. I belong to neither now. Its happening in quite famous national organizations currently too. Its just sad.
And its not just clubs!
Volunteer fire departments experience the same issues.
Because the executive positions are elected ones many people vie for those positions when they are not qualified and for other reasons unfit to hold those positions of power.
And its these vipers that often breed contention, tend to be disruptive ( like internet trolls) they entertain themselves on the strife they create.
But it honestly is amusing and satisfying when their idiot decisions come back and bite them in the @$$.
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Reference the COVID situation, with over 1 million dead from COVID in the US, and the US still loosing ~300 people per day, it's perfectly understandable why ZOOM was suggested.
Sounds like what you initially had was a Democratic style management and now have an Authoritarian style management. Your elections are your opportunity to make changes. And of course you could always do some research and find a club that better suits your needs and/or approval.
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You don't have to buy a camera and microphone to do Zoom. Modern computers already have them. We have meetings on Zoom and in person. Zoom allows people who don't drive at night or live far away an opportunity to be part of the club. We also use many (but not all) Yaesu repeaters. The DR-2X allows both analog and fusion. All of our nets are on analog but fusion is there for those who want it. The FCC exams have questions on digital and it is a big part of modern radio. It is good to learn something about it. It is odd that committees are allowed to make the decisions. Most clubs have committees that render an opinion which is then voted on by the whole membership.
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Equipment aside, while many clubs are open to new members, not many stay if there is strife or drama.
They generally are interested and want to learn more.
In house politics is a touchy situation.
And bickering, or trashing someone else is not congenial to a club function.
The meetings are there to bring all its members up to date on activities and conditions and to vote on matters as needed whether approved or vetoed.
Decisions cannot just favor a few at the expense of the rest, that fosters division and rapidly deteriorates things.
Rules for the club must be followed by all and no one is exempt from them or the concequences for breaking them.
( that is one topic ive seen way too often)
Holding office is not about power ( as many people tend to think it is)
Holding office is about stepping up to the responsibility of the office and all the duty it entails.
Quite often its a thankless task, and you put a target on you back for all the mud others will fling at you. :-\
Anyway im sorry if i sounded preachy
But what causes the clubs and organizations to fail tends to sour an attitude a bit.