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eHam Forums => Mobile Ham => Topic started by: N1AUP on August 12, 2022, 03:07:14 PM

Title: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: N1AUP on August 12, 2022, 03:07:14 PM
I'm seeing ignition noise of S7 blowing away my Yaesu FT891.

Curious what people have done to make this vehicle quiet?

Christine
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: W6SWO on August 12, 2022, 03:42:05 PM
Have you got your power leads running all the way back to the battery?  Do you have your transceiver grounded to the truck's frame and not just attached to plastic panels?
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: K6SDW on August 12, 2022, 03:51:24 PM
What SWO said. Also, I'd pull each sparkplug individually to see if that points to the problem. Your antenna mounting setup could be the problem as well....

Is the noise broadband or only at certain frequencies?

GL/73
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: WA3SKN on August 12, 2022, 05:01:02 PM
Well, first you replace the antenna with a known good dummy load and see if you still have the noise!  This determines whether the signal is incoming via the antenna or via the power and/or ground.
You want to know this so you know what to filter/shield/etc.

-Mike.

And you now know why FM is so popular in mobile!
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: W1RKW on August 13, 2022, 03:32:59 AM
are you sure it is ignition noise?
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: WM4RB on August 13, 2022, 06:33:17 AM
Also bond hood, body, doors, bed and tailgate to the frame with braided ground straps.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: K5LXP on August 13, 2022, 06:58:12 AM
Many Fords have COP ignition - Coil Over Plug.  So if it's ignition-like popping it's probably injectors.  I've had some luck reducing noise by shielding, and using EMI filters on the DC lines.  Bonding body panels together and bonding the driveline and exhaust are standard protocol.  Minimizing common mode on the feedline can help too.  So there's no one magic bullet that will solve the noise issue, often it's a little bit of everything.

Mark K5LXP
Albuquerque, NM
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: K0UA on August 13, 2022, 08:12:48 AM
I'm seeing ignition noise of S7 blowing away my Yaesu FT891.

Curious what people have done to make this vehicle quiet?

Christine

Bonding and grounding are called for in ALL HF mobile installations.  Bond, hood in at least both sides, bond exhaust system in multiple places. Bond, doors,  and bond bed to frame in at least 2 places, bond tailgate. Bond EVERYTHING. This will do the most for noise. After that consider snap on mix 31 ferrites over spark plugs, and fuel injector wires.  But bond first and ferrite second if needed. Did I mention how important bonding is? Perhaps I should mention it again.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: K0UA on August 13, 2022, 08:18:11 AM
I used stainless screws and drilled pilot holes in the sheet metal, and used No-Ox-Id on the screws before they go into the sheet steel. I made my own bonding straps. I used stainless hose clamps on the stainless exhaust pipe. Use several. The other end of the braided strap goes to the frame. All of this takes lots of dirty work crawling under the truck and is absolutely NO fun. But it really pays off.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: N1AUP on August 13, 2022, 11:37:46 AM
Have you got your power leads running all the way back to the battery?  Do you have your transceiver grounded to the truck's frame and not just attached to plastic panels?

The power leads are 10 gauge, and go from the dash to the back of the cab.  They connect to a bus, and that connects directly to the battery with 10 gauge wire.  Plus goes directly to the battery, and minus goes to the frame near the body.  The radio itself is not grounded, aside through the shield of the coax.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: N1AUP on August 13, 2022, 11:38:53 AM
What SWO said. Also, I'd pull each sparkplug individually to see if that points to the problem. Your antenna mounting setup could be the problem as well....

Is the noise broadband or only at certain frequencies?

GL/73

Antenna is mounted on a Larsen elevated taillight mount.  That mount is grounded to the body of the truck with a 4 inch length of 14 gauge wire.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: K6SDW on August 13, 2022, 01:46:16 PM
Take an AM portable radio and move it around the truck...it should help you locate the source of the noise, the closer you get to the noise source the louder it will sound in the AM radio. Like K5LXP sez there's no magic bullet

My 2013 Ford F150 is very quiet RF wise so I'm guessing there's something amiss with your engine's electrical system. It would probably cost $$ but your mechanic could put his scope on your engine and probably see the problem..

GL/73
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: N5PNZ on August 14, 2022, 05:45:52 AM
I have noticed recently that some newer models of Ford pick ups "talk" to my HR2510 as they pass by.  Even hear them from the opposite side of the interstate.  Its a loud popping emission like a single coil arcing.  Has happened several times recently.  Haven't noticed it with brands.  Coincidence?  Maybe.

To the op's question, I found that bonding the exhaust to the frame solved some my problems.  The hood and doors need bonding also. 

Careful on 40 meters.  My Ram and some other vehicles have had anti lock brake activations when talking on 40.  Not serious enough to cause accident but enough to feel the brakes bump and set a code in the system.  The exhaust bonding seemed to cure it too
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: AI5BC on August 14, 2022, 08:16:53 AM
I'm seeing ignition noise of S7 blowing away my Yaesu FT891.

Curious what people have done to make this vehicle quiet?

Christine
Install the radio correctly. For example, I bet you connected the radio negative wire directly to the battery post. That is guaranteed to generate noise and makes for a good firebomb someday when you start the vehicle.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: KM3F on October 15, 2022, 10:42:37 PM
When considering any specific vehicle such as Ford F150,
There are several different engine options and many different body equipage function options that can be present depending on the model level such as XL, XLT etc.
The interference sources present many possibilities.
A. Going negative to the battery terminal puts a Battery management sensor between the neg. terminal and the Chassis for ground.
B. There is a tire pressure monitoring system usually in the 313 band, the remote-control system in the 915 band, ABS monitoring, The dash big screen operations, the PCM clock frequency and the list goes on and on with over30 different modules on communication Bus, all over the vehicle. Many of the functions are in one module located in right rear cab roof area over the head liner.
Ignition on a 5L v8 engine has 7 coil overs and one offset coil linked to the #3 spark plug by a short, exposed lead and boot.
Full electronic dash displays.
Often owners substitute Halogen Lamps with LED and get issues from the peticular LED chosen for the change if it is internal switch driven with resultant hash interference.
....You need to make a good attempt to ID the source, see what the solution to that specific interference source might be and go from there.
....Might be informative to look at page 583 of the 2018 Owner manual for RF field specs as additional Radio info.
ID the source, then what to do about it.
If the Dash display includes AM radio, check to see if you hear RFI on that unit.
Modern vehicles no longer fit the old standards for interference sources and remedies.
.
I run 2m FM and reverse turns on the backup camera function and Dash display screen and overloads the radio but is not an issue for the small time in reverse.
2018 5L XLT.
Good luck.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: AI5BC on October 16, 2022, 07:15:40 AM
I bet you made a ham mistake. You ran the negative from the radio all the way to the battery term post, didn't you? If you did, you got exactly what you asked for. Take the battery negative to the chassis.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: KM3F on October 16, 2022, 07:45:09 PM
Don't know who your reply was meant to be to. The Power point is what I plug into.
Did not run any wiring anywhere else.
The Antenna base or Coax and Radio are not even grounded.
All power control is through a module that is time and function controlled.
All loads are meant to be drawn though the sensor, so the battery >usage life< is detected and calculated for every parameter, battery life and performance, is dependent on.
This is why a new replacement battery should have a Re-Set done to the battery management system. That does not just happen with a power down as the reason for the re-set by tool to access the program.
There is not one circuit that runs direct to the battery terminal in this vehicle.
Battery management in these late model vehicles is no longer old school.
A lot is going on that depends on it.
If there is a difference of opinion, take that up with Ford.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: K4AX on October 17, 2022, 03:31:47 PM
For me on the F150 over the years with a few of them, bonding as mentioned above and especially bonding the exhaust in a few places made huge differences.  I tried shielding all the DC lines going to the COPs and it didn't really make any difference for me. 

Bonding, bonding and more bonding is the ticket.  Then start putting ferrite cores and shielding if that doesn't work.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: N1AUP on December 16, 2022, 09:50:43 AM
I've not done any of the suggested fixes yet.  To be honest, the thought of drilling a zillion holes, wrapping everything in shielding, etc on a $50.000 truck, gives me the willies.

One thing I did notice is that if I am tooling down the highway at 70 MPH, and take my foot off the gas, the noise decreases to S0.  Giving the truck gas, spikes the noise to S7.  The more gas I give it, the more noise.

Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: N1AUP on December 16, 2022, 10:18:30 AM
I bet you made a ham mistake. You ran the negative from the radio all the way to the battery term post, didn't you? If you did, you got exactly what you asked for. Take the battery negative to the chassis.

No.  The negative goes to the metal firewall right near the battery.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: W1RKW on December 16, 2022, 11:18:54 AM
 fuel pump or injector noise or both.
Title: Re: 2018 Ford F150. How did you suppress noise?
Post by: K0UA on December 17, 2022, 03:49:31 PM
Do the hood bonding, and the exhaust bonding FIRST.

All of your trucks are valuable, but drilling these unseen holes if done right will NOT devalue it. If fact no one will even see these. Be sure to use stainless hardware, and No-Ox-Id to prevent any chance of rust in these holes. Then if that does not eliminate it start slipping Mix 31 ferrites over any and all exposed wires/looms Special attention to the computer modules. That fuel pump wiring deserves a look too as stated above. It ain't no thing to slip a Stainless Steel clamp over a Stainless steel exhaust pipe and take a plated copper bonding strap to the nearest frame/body place and screw it down with a hex head stainless screw and star washer with the screw gooped with No-Ox-Id.  It does not take long to do and can yield real dividends.