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eHam Forums => Station Building => Topic started by: K4BDA on December 19, 2022, 06:40:07 PM

Title: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: K4BDA on December 19, 2022, 06:40:07 PM
I'm trying to setup my HF shack after being off HF for a long time.
Right now I have a table with the equipment front panels 24 inches back from the front edge of the table/desk.
That is somewhat of a long reach.
In your shack, how far back are the equipment front panels from the front edge of your desk/table?
Thanks,
K4BDA
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: WA9AFM on December 19, 2022, 07:22:56 PM
I've set mine for 'arm's reach'.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: KF4HR on December 19, 2022, 08:14:42 PM
This dimension really depends on the equipment you use (or plan to eventually use), and also how you use your equipment.  Consider the table depth difference required to comfortably reach a FT-818 or IC-7300, vs say an ICOM-7851 or FT-9000, or large vintage equipment or power amplifiers. 

Also if you're the type that mostly parks your equipment on one or a couple frequencies, reach distance isn't nearly as important compared to a situation where you need to reach your equipment often.  Personally I suggest 30 to 36 inch table depth.  With this depth, if your reach is too far you can always move your equipment further forward, but if the table depth is not deep enough, that can make for little or no arm/elbow support and uncomfortable operating.   
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: G4AON on December 20, 2022, 12:51:55 AM
My transceiver(s) and amp are 10 inches back from the front of the desk. This seems about right to me, both in terms of using the radio/amp and having a computer keyboard in front of the radio with a set of Morse paddles to the right of the keyboard.

My problem is my desk is up against a wall and access to the rear panel of equipment is not easy.

In my original job as a sparks on a ship, the receiver was on the left at an angle, completely clear desk space in front, pump handle Morse key screwed to the desk on the right and the transmitter in a rack to the right of the operating position. The microphone was on a boom.

73 Dave
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: NN4RH on December 20, 2022, 01:02:35 AM
12.573 inches exactly
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: N6XJP on December 20, 2022, 03:16:27 AM
No way Ron…..mine is all set at 12.572898 inches exactly.  Of course, temperature variations could affect that.  I weep for the future.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: N2SR on December 20, 2022, 03:55:18 AM
0.0001257406720573945612520577 inches from the edge

but the desktop is 3.14159265359 inches deep.

Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: G8FXC on December 20, 2022, 04:48:24 AM
My rigs are quite a long way back because I need the space in front of them for the keyboard and mice (multiple) that I actually use to operate the radios.

Martin G8FXC
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: K1KIM on December 20, 2022, 04:48:41 AM
Shack #1    20 inch deep table against the wall. All equipment 2-5" back from front edge. My
                  large office desk is in front with a swivel desk chair in between. Work-Play-Work-Play. 
                  ;D

Shack #2    36 inch deep table against the wall. All equipment except the PS's 3" back from front
                  edge.

Mice live in a 8" square !
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: K4PIH on December 20, 2022, 05:33:15 AM
I'm trying to setup my HF shack after being off HF for a long time.
Right now I have a table with the equipment front panels 24 inches back from the front edge of the table/desk.
That is somewhat of a long reach.
In your shack, how far back are the equipment front panels from the front edge of your desk/table?
Thanks,
K4BDA

I set mine 14 - 16 inches from the front edge. That way the edge hits about 1" before my elbow.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: K1VSK on December 20, 2022, 05:53:15 AM
Only two real considerations
 What is comfortable to you to reach/tune the VFO and
 Enough room to comfortably rest your arm while operating CW.

Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: NA4M on December 20, 2022, 06:10:30 AM
Table edge about 11 inches back from front of rig.   I use 2 old office conference tables in an "L" shape to provide walk-behind access to rig and some of the other station components for ease of access to cabling. 

Computer monitor immediately to the right of transceiver and about same distance from edge.  Use a compact keyboard to save space.

I notice some installing their transceiver elevated above table top on a shelf - but that seems to me to make using rig controls uncomfortable and not very ergonomic.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: K4GTE on December 20, 2022, 06:50:09 AM
10 inches, but I wish I had more.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: N8NK on December 20, 2022, 07:01:17 AM
10 inches, but I wish I had more.
Hahaha.. this had to be said.
My rig is on an angle on my left.. L hand corner of rig ~6" whilst R hand corner is ~12 or 13".
Rig to the left, laptop to my right- paddles, J-38 and homebrew mem keyer straight away, mate.
dit dit now you're it
Chuck
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: AA4PB on December 20, 2022, 07:02:25 AM
I have a commercial (military surplus) rack-mount console. The front edge is 22 inches from the equipment.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: KE6VG on December 20, 2022, 09:52:51 AM
I have a 30" deep desk. Radio face is about 15" back. Keyboard and mouse are under the desktop on a pullout shelf. Leaves me plenty of room for notepad, keyer or whatever on a clean desktop. And I use a 4k 43" TCL TV as a monitor mounted just above the radios to the wall for my computer screen. Lots of room on the monitor to keep multiple programs open at once for logging, FT8, maps, whatever you need.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: N4MU on January 17, 2023, 05:37:30 AM
0.0001257406720573945612520577 inches from the edge

but the desktop is 3.14159265359 inches deep.

Could you please express that in parsecs or fortnights per furlong? I have a Chinese ruler
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: N7EKU on January 17, 2023, 05:38:51 AM
Depends how big your belly is  ;)
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: N2SR on January 17, 2023, 05:52:44 AM
0.0001257406720573945612520577 inches from the edge

but the desktop is 3.14159265359 inches deep.

Could you please express that in parsecs or fortnights per furlong? I have a Chinese ruler

Sure. 

0.0001257406720573945612520577 inches = 1.035044325305663913e-22 parsecs
3.14159265359 inches = 2.58602693568876e-18 parsecs.

fortnights per furlong is invalid for distance because it's a speed. 

Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: N7EKU on January 17, 2023, 07:10:57 AM
Inverse of speed actually  :)
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: K7JQ on January 17, 2023, 08:09:22 AM
I'm trying to setup my HF shack after being off HF for a long time.
Right now I have a table with the equipment front panels 24 inches back from the front edge of the table/desk.
That is somewhat of a long reach.
In your shack, how far back are the equipment front panels from the front edge of your desk/table?
Thanks,
K4BDA

Sitting comfortably close to the desk with chair armrests level with the desktop. Elbow on the armrest. Distance from radio tuning knob and keyer paddle is approx 1/2 the length of my wrist to elbow. In my case, 11" to the edge of the desk. Unless you're a 7' basketball player, 24" would be way too uncomfortable leaning and reaching over the desk to the controls.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: N4MU on January 18, 2023, 05:53:25 AM
0.0001257406720573945612520577 inches from the edge

but the desktop is 3.14159265359 inches deep.

Could you please express that in parsecs or fortnights per furlong? I have a Chinese ruler

Sure. 

0.0001257406720573945612520577 inches = 1.035044325305663913e-22 parsecs
3.14159265359 inches = 2.58602693568876e-18 parsecs.

fortnights per furlong is invalid for distance because it's a speed.

Thank you! I hope you didn't take all your free time to compute. Now I know where to put my radio! I'll just beam myself up now. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: K7JQ on January 18, 2023, 06:14:11 AM
0.0001257406720573945612520577 inches from the edge

but the desktop is 3.14159265359 inches deep.

Could you please express that in parsecs or fortnights per furlong? I have a Chinese ruler

Sure. 

0.0001257406720573945612520577 inches = 1.035044325305663913e-22 parsecs
3.14159265359 inches = 2.58602693568876e-18 parsecs.

fortnights per furlong is invalid for distance because it's a speed.

Thank you! I hope you didn't take all your free time to compute. Now I know where to put my radio! I'll just beam myself up now. Thanks again.

Ask a legitimate question, you’ll always get a share of sarcastic/rude answers.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: N2SR on January 18, 2023, 06:33:29 AM
Ask a legitimate question, you’ll always get a share of sarcastic/rude answers.

Oh pulease. 

The OP question was like asking "how long should I make my coax from my radio to the antenna?"   
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: K7JQ on January 18, 2023, 08:13:08 AM
Ask a legitimate question, you’ll always get a share of sarcastic/rude answers.

Oh pulease. 

The OP question was like asking "how long should I make my coax from my radio to the antenna?"

Oh "pulease" yourself.

The OP was merely asking opinions about others' station ergonomics, and maybe received some helpful input from more experienced OPS on how they set up their stations for operating comfort and efficiency. That's the intent of these forums. This is not a case of "RTFM". If you think the question was too stupid, then just like on your radio, twist the knob and move off frequency.

It's guys like you that discourage others, especially newbies, from asking questions to improve their knowledge. I imagine that you were so smart about everything when you were just starting out that you never had any questions. And BTW, in many cases the length of coax from radio to amp or to the antenna *does* make a difference.

Oh Pulease!


Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: N7EKU on January 18, 2023, 08:24:04 AM
Here's a nice source with a lot of experience:

http://www.arrl.org/setting-up-a-station (http://www.arrl.org/setting-up-a-station)

There are good links there for general setup, chair ergonomics, and grounding.

73.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: N2SR on January 18, 2023, 10:15:47 AM
Oh "pulease" yourself.

The OP was merely asking opinions about others' station ergonomics, and maybe received some helpful input from more experienced OPS on how they set up their stations for operating comfort and efficiency. That's the intent of these forums. This is not a case of "RTFM". If you think the question was too stupid, then just like on your radio, twist the knob and move off frequency.

It's guys like you that discourage others, especially newbies, from asking questions to improve their knowledge. I imagine that you were so smart about everything when you were just starting out that you never had any questions. And BTW, in many cases the length of coax from radio to amp or to the antenna *does* make a difference.

Oh Pulease!

Go play in traffic.

Sure, some things I asked my Elmer about, but most things I figured out myself, based on my own operating style and preference. 

No one is discouraging anyone. 

For a single coax to a single antenna, it's unlikely to make a difference.  If you are talking 30+ GHz, then yea, it will.  Ask me how I know.

Take the stick out of your behind and laugh once in your pathetic life.  Pulease!

Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: K7JQ on January 18, 2023, 11:50:51 AM
Oh "pulease" yourself.

The OP was merely asking opinions about others' station ergonomics, and maybe received some helpful input from more experienced OPS on how they set up their stations for operating comfort and efficiency. That's the intent of these forums. This is not a case of "RTFM". If you think the question was too stupid, then just like on your radio, twist the knob and move off frequency.

It's guys like you that discourage others, especially newbies, from asking questions to improve their knowledge. I imagine that you were so smart about everything when you were just starting out that you never had any questions. And BTW, in many cases the length of coax from radio to amp or to the antenna *does* make a difference.

Oh Pulease!

Go play in traffic.

Sure, some things I asked my Elmer about, but most things I figured out myself, based on my own operating style and preference. 

No one is discouraging anyone. 

For a single coax to a single antenna, it's unlikely to make a difference.  If you are talking 30+ GHz, then yea, it will.  Ask me how I know.

Take the stick out of your behind and laugh once in your pathetic life.  Pulease!

From what I've seen, many (not all) of your posts on the forums are either sarcastic, derogatory, or combative. You've done that to me in the past for no reason. As a fellow avid contester, I've seen your scores on 3830 and have even complimented you on them. Apparently, you have qualified experience in efficient station operation/ergonomics, and could have provided some good input to the OP.

Instead, you inferred he asked a stupid question, and decided to embarrass him by posting a stupid answer. I have a great sense of humor, but that's not the way I express it. Your personal attack on me ("pathetic life")?...I just consider the source ;).

 
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: K6CPO on January 18, 2023, 01:36:51 PM
My shack is arranged in a "U" shape made up of two different desks. One is an old corner computer desk from an office supply store and the other is a corner desk from Ikea I bought second hand. The computer desk contains my computer, printers, scanner and a couple of monitors. The Ikea desk has all the radios on it. The HF is in a corner 20 inches from the curved part of the desk and the two VHF/UHF radios, power supplies, tuner, etc are stacked on shelves above it. There are a pair of Heathkit transcievers to the left of the stack and two receivers on a shelf above them. The shelf also holds the power supply and speaker for one of the Heathkits. All my HTs are stacked on top of the receivers.

This setup works fairly well, but puts my back to the radios when I'm on the computer. This is a minor inconvenience but sometimes I miss the frequency or repeater someone is on when they call out.     
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: WA3SKN on January 18, 2023, 03:56:25 PM
To the original poster... move the eqpt forward a bit.

-Mike.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: HB9PJT on January 19, 2023, 12:38:05 AM
My TRX is 15 inches (40 cm) off the edge of the table. The TRX directly on the table top and not elevated so that I can rest the arm on the table and I can operate the VFO comfortably with my hand without fatigue.

I see a lot of shack pictures where the radio is higher and the arm has to be in the air to operate the VFO. Or the TRX is behind the PC keyboard and you can't rest your arm on the table because of that. You can't do fatigue-free operating with such arrangements.

For right-handers, the TRX must be on the right, unless you are doing CW with your right hand and want to operate the TRX with your left hand at the same time.

73, Peter - HB9PJT
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: KA4WJA on January 19, 2023, 05:37:51 PM
Will,
1)  As you've undoubtedly gathered by now, there are "personal preference" and "application specific" factors that are heavily in play here!  :)

But, in general, I (and most) would find the front panel of a radio set-back 24" from the front of the desk to be too far.... 12" to 16" is more standard.

Please read what Peter wrote here....it is very good:
My TRX is 15 inches (40 cm) off the edge of the table. The TRX directly on the table top and not elevated so that I can rest the arm on the table and I can operate the VFO comfortably with my hand without fatigue.

I see a lot of shack pictures where the radio is higher and the arm has to be in the air to operate the VFO. Or the TRX is behind the PC keyboard and you can't rest your arm on the table because of that. You can't do fatigue-free operating with such arrangements.

For right-handers, the TRX must be on the right, unless you are doing CW with your right hand and want to operate the TRX with your left hand at the same time.

73, Peter - HB9PJT


2)  In addition to personal preference / application specific criteria, shack ergonomics is also dependent on your rig!   Some rigs are very good in this regard, allowing you to easily operate them and their most often used controls....and mostly with your dominant hand, with your forearm resting on the desk...

Please have a look here at this thread, where you'll find some examples of great rig ergonomics (and examples of some with poor ergonomics, too)...

 https://www.eham.net/community/smf/index.php/topic,128776.msg1275560.html#msg1275560

 https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?threads/radio-front-panel-layouts.833074/page-3



3)  And, directly to your specific questions....
On my primary operating desk (at home), I do have my rigs set back a ways farther than some other hams, at about 15" - 16"...this gives room to have a full-size note pad (8.5" x 12"), as well as CW paddles and/or a desk mic base, etc., without stuff hanging over the desk....
{And, if using a standard 30" width table (or door) this allows 14" - 15" of depth for the rigs/accessories (actually, a bit less, to account for a rear-edge grounding/bonding strap/buss bar)....and, if placing this 4" - 6" away from the wall (for both good air-flow and allow easy-peasy cabling access, etc.) this doesn't take up too much room.}

Have a look here:
(https://cdn-bio.qrz.com/a/ka4wja/Ham3.JPG?p=5d143c4ae88eacaeb37a71ded4b9964f)


At my temporary QTH, I'm very limited in space, etc....so my rig/speaker/accessories are on a night-stand, and only 3 to 4 inches back from the front....with my amp, wattmeter, scope, analyzers, etc. in the adjacent closet...

Have a look here:
(https://cdn-bio.qrz.com/a/ka4wja/TR_7_Station_1.jpg?p=5d143c4ae88eacaeb37a71ded4b9964f)

 

Bottom line, 24" is a bit of a reach....but, "how far" depends on your rig, your actual application, your accessories, etc., and your operating style...
(some hams feel they need a computer/monitor in front of them just to use their radio / make contacts ---- heck some even need the internet to use their rigs/make contacts....others feel even solid-state devices aren't needed....most of us fall in the middle...hi hi)


I do hope this helps?

73,
John,  KA4WJA
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: SWMAN on January 21, 2023, 07:44:41 PM
 Just put it where it is most comfortable for you.
Title: Re: Shack Setup: How far from your table front edge to rig front panel controls?
Post by: KH6AQ on January 22, 2023, 08:22:40 AM
My station is set up for contesting and things are positioned for minimum hand movement.

The amp is to the left within arm's reach and angled for easy viewing. I can change bands and set the amp controls in 5 seconds.

The XCVR is 10" back from the desk front, is centered 13" from my center, and is angled for viewing. I am constantly adjusting the clarifier (Yaesu MPVD ring), AF gain and punching the APF button ON/OFF as needed.

The laptop front is at the front of the desk.

The paddles are 3" to the right of the laptop and back 11" from the desk front.


AMP   XCVR  LAPTOP  PADDLE

                      OP