Just #2 to work, with a bit of luck, and that's 3/3.
Two outta three ain't bad.
(https://i.ibb.co/d5b7ZPH/Capture.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Tom KH0/KC0W
I know a lot of us are going to be stoked to get Bouvet in the log. The pileups will be fierce but I think I should be able to work them considering Crozet was a good test run. LP will be the way to go.My station is ready. Crozet was a good test run.
John K7KB
Which is it? The pileups are going to be fierce? Or, it will be easy to work on CW and especially SSB because hardly anyone uses those caveman modes any more.....
Lets all get our story straight.
Ed N1UR
Here are short-path bearings over Bouvet's topography from Cape Fie to various NA locations:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hccJFCGztkU/YRG2vkMU3fI/AAAAAAAAIa4/7olXXKeJM2sH0u6ubOo5qUTCkoYvnQ-rwCLcBGAsYHQ/s16000/bouvet.jpg)
Here are short-path bearings over Bouvet's topography from Cape Fie to various NA locations:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hccJFCGztkU/YRG2vkMU3fI/AAAAAAAAIa4/7olXXKeJM2sH0u6ubOo5qUTCkoYvnQ-rwCLcBGAsYHQ/s16000/bouvet.jpg)
I will be interested in seeing how the topography affects propagation.
73 Rich KB8GAE
Which is it? The pileups are going to be fierce? Or, it will be easy to work on CW and especially SSB because hardly anyone uses those caveman modes any more.....
Lets all get our story straight.
Ed N1UR
Here are short-path bearings over Bouvet's topography from Cape Fie to various NA locations:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hccJFCGztkU/YRG2vkMU3fI/AAAAAAAAIa4/7olXXKeJM2sH0u6ubOo5qUTCkoYvnQ-rwCLcBGAsYHQ/s16000/bouvet.jpg)
Looks like W1, W2 should be interesting... right over the peak ::)
I will be interested in seeing how the topography affects propagation.
73 Rich KB8GAE
Agreed. I'll be looking Longpath (over Asia) first. Just like Kerguelen a few years ago...
Kerguelen Over The Longpath (https://www.n0un.net/repost-ft4xu-kerguelen-on-the-air/)
Great map by AE5X!
N0UN
Agreed. I'll be looking Longpath (over Asia) first. Just like Kerguelen a few years ago...
Kerguelen Over The Longpath (https://www.n0un.net/repost-ft4xu-kerguelen-on-the-air/)
Great map by AE5X!
N0UN
LOL that is not all that encouraging ;D
I assume that was at peak time etc.
If you were having that hard of a time reading him then it says a lot.
The prevailing wind and current effects on speed over the ground. Sailing downwind is different than upwind
That's a BIG 1,000 mile (between 4 & 6 days each way) difference!
What am I missing here?
N0UN
is just under 4,000 km. That is 2,500 miles.
"The 2,500 Km (1,553 mile) journey
What am I missing here?
is just under 4,000 km. That is 2,500 miles.
"The 2,500 Km (1,553 mile) journey
What am I missing here?
I'd guess he got the number of 2500 miles confused with km and then did his own math to come up with a 'new' miles figure.
These pileups will be __________(fill in the blanks) :) or ;D or :(
Split instructions from 3Y0J:
CW MAX 15 kHz split (operators chose QRG within a certain bandwidth)
SSB MAX 30 kHz split (operators chose QRG within a certain bandwidth)
Lowest 10 kHz spectrum on regular bands NO TX to allow regular DX traffic
Facebook update:
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update: We would like to answer a couple of very good questions from the comments.
Q: Will there be log updates while on Bouvet?
A: We will use BGAN on Bouvet for daily upload. This will be on the ClubLog and M0OXO websites. The BGAN (Broadband Global Area Network) is a global satellite network with telephony owned by Inmarsat using portable terminals.
Q: What is the reason for no /MM operation?
A: We will not be setting up antennas for /MM operation. For safety reasons we are not allowed to walk on deck whenever we want. During sailing we will stay in the aft part of the sailboat. There is a nice view from there.
And the next one that they will be listening on next.Absolutely! Anticipation is essential unless you want to waste time, electricity and patience. Follow their pattern. Every operator has one.
Ed N1UR
1900z: The tracker now shows the sailboat about 10 miles east of the Falklands....they are on their way.
Looks like the team will have plenty of time to get to know each other.
(https://i.ibb.co/Tg4hmKq/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FD57gsq)
Tom KH0/KC0W
Looks like the team will have plenty of time to get to know each other.
(https://i.ibb.co/Tg4hmKq/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FD57gsq)
Tom KH0/KC0W
I just read an update from the team that they are only doing 7 knots right now, trying to keep behind a storm system. So I didn't imagine they had almost come to a stop :) At that pace, they would reach Bouvet in about 13 days so I hope they can kick in the afterburners sometime during the trip.
I must be looking at the tracker incorrectly. When I see the dots it looks like they are there already? What am I seeing when I click the SHOW ALL TRACKs button? What are the flags?
Some Hams have stated Thierry and his operation (FT8WW) are "heroic". An "unbelievable" personal sacrifice to activate #3 DXCC Most Wanted. Some are calling for him to be nominated for "DXpedition of The Year".
Think about that for awhile while you're trying to get your head around what this dozen DXpeditioners are going through - in just the last few days.
N0UN
Well, nobody is shooting an enemy while facing withering fire from a machine gun nest.(https://media.makeameme.org/created/somebody-please.jpg)
So, by that standard, no DXpedition is "heroic".
But if we go by the definition of "heroic" that means "excruciatingly large effort" then any of these rare places qualify. One just has different kinds of "heroic" things to do.
.....Yabba Yabba Yabba
Let me educate you like your a 5 year old... Yabba Yabba...
One Novel Later.....
73s
Well, nobody is shooting an enemy while facing withering fire from a machine gun nest.The term "heroic" is not a proper one. The exceptions are, of course, K7LMU and ZL2AMJ lost at sea and shoot away Spratly team. These folks died for Ham Radio, they are heroes.
So, by that standard, no DXpedition is "heroic".
But if we go by the definition of "heroic" that means "excruciatingly large effort" then any of these rare places qualify. One just has different kinds of "heroic" things to do.
There are several distinct classes of challenge and for the really rare ones, they take years and often large sums of money to overcome:
The Marama is currently cruising along at 12 MPH.
Click on the blue traingle, click "more"
https://share.garmin.com/3Y0J (https://share.garmin.com/3Y0J)
N0UN
It's kind of strange that they have no MM activity going.
I wonder why he would not allow an antenna installation before they left port and just run it to one of the rooms below deck. Anyway no big deal but MM certainly does add to the excitement and gives the operators something fun to do.It's kind of strange that they have no MM activity going.
They already addressed that issue. Because of safety reasons the boats captain nixed it because he doesn't want people on the deck due to the potential of bad weather. (installing antennas, etc)
We just saw how fast 20 days of FT8WW went by. I will not be waiting for the pileups to diminish for Bouvet.
Interesting point made by Wayne about the ship needing to be back in SA by early March,
It has been mentioned that they have 22 days contracted at or on the Island, I don't recall if the guys said 22 days at or on as that would make a huge difference if they struggle to land on the island there could be a lot smaller window of opportunity to work them,
Hopefully they make it there safe and sound, that is the most important thing currently,
73
Trevor
EI2GLB
I'll be happy not to see another DXpedition operating multiple Data sub-modes. FT8 is efficient but not much fun. I see 20 and 15 m also assigned RTTY, that's cool.I'm most excited for RTTY to be honest. I worked Petrus (3Y0E) on 20m phone, and CW should be fairly easy—eventually. But with the exception of Crozet, every one of my 328 digital mode entities have been on RTTY. If I can get Bouvet on either digital mode that'll put me 2 back of the digital Honor Roll, but doing it on RTTY would be special, for sure.
Just checked and they are now only doing 6 mph. Not exactly burning up the waves. Maybe they need bigger oars? :)
John K7KB
Worked Ken, LA7GIA/MM this evening without too much trouble on 20m CW. The signal was a bit fluttery but nothing too bad. Here is what he sounded like at my QTH around 23z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lga-yzHQMoA
73
Mason - KM4SII
Any thoughts on when the first 3Y0J station will hit the airwaves?
I say around 2000Z on Wednesday March 1st - SSB.
That's right about their sunset next Wednesday evening (CET, GMT +1).
N0UN
Too many people not listening in the traditional sense.Ha!
The guys on the boat have been trivially easy to work /MM the last few evenings, and yet almost no takers. CQ CQ CQ...
I know it doesn't count for anything except maybe grid squares but why so little interest? Even just to throw them a bone? Listening to the endless CQing is sad. I do sometimes wonder if the DXers who enjoy the whole "show," and not just the greenies, are a dying breed.
Consider giving them some traffic tonight. I am sure they would appreciate it.
For info also check Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ but I don't see much new right now.
Somewhere I saw that they were using some sort of dipole antenna onboard. I suspect it'd be barefoot operation.
Garmin seems to need new battery/charge. 73
For info also check Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/) but I don't see much new right now.
Somewhere I saw that they were using some sort of dipole antenna onboard. I suspect it'd be barefoot operation.
Garmin seems to need new battery/charge. 73
On that facebook page there is a link to track the boat using its AIS transponder.
Tor N4OGW
More would rather work FT8 than CW?
According to google Earth that puts them 170 Miles from the Island.So that puts them at the Island on Wednesday morning 32nd January, in my time zone! ;D
They should be there tomorrow at around 4-5pm EST which will be just a few hours after sunset on Bouvet. So it looks like 31st will be the first attempt at landing if the weather is good.
According the their Band Plan they have designated 14,105 as their FT8 transmit frequency. I've been monitoring this frequency for several days and the beacon traffic there is S9 here in Virginia. Is the crew aware that this is a beacon frequency?I forwarded your post to a pilot station and the team is now aware of it. Thanks for bringing it up!
According the their Band Plan they have designated 14,105 as their FT8 transmit frequency. I've been monitoring this frequency for several days and the beacon traffic there is S9 here in Virginia. Is the crew aware that this is a beacon frequency?
Tune to 14,105.00 and set your receiver bandwidth to 3 KHz (as though you were working FT8) and you will hear the multi-tone clatter right now. Others are hearing this too, not just me.According the their Band Plan they have designated 14,105 as their FT8 transmit frequency. I've been monitoring this frequency for several days and the beacon traffic there is S9 here in Virginia. Is the crew aware that this is a beacon frequency?
A beacon frequency for what? The IARU CW beacons are on 14.100.
Tune to 14,105.00 and set your receiver bandwidth to 3 KHz (as though you were working FT8) and you will hear the multi-tone clatter right now. Others are hearing this too, not just me.According the their Band Plan they have designated 14,105 as their FT8 transmit frequency. I've been monitoring this frequency for several days and the beacon traffic there is S9 here in Virginia. Is the crew aware that this is a beacon frequency?
A beacon frequency for what? The IARU CW beacons are on 14.100.
You're right. That's what it appears to be. A new one on me.Tune to 14,105.00 and set your receiver bandwidth to 3 KHz (as though you were working FT8) and you will hear the multi-tone clatter right now. Others are hearing this too, not just me.According the their Band Plan they have designated 14,105 as their FT8 transmit frequency. I've been monitoring this frequency for several days and the beacon traffic there is S9 here in Virginia. Is the crew aware that this is a beacon frequency?
A beacon frequency for what? The IARU CW beacons are on 14.100.
https://www.varac-hamradio.com/ (https://www.varac-hamradio.com/) probably.
It appears sunset on Bouvet is at 2042Z (UTC/GMT+1).
Sunrise is around 0518Z (0418 local CET).
They are past their longest Summer day so Bouvet loses 2 minutes at sunrise and again at sunset - 4 minutes per day.
Here's a Sunrise/Sunset on Bouvet Link (https://www.timegenie.com/sunrise_sunset/city/xbvbv)
I wouldn't think you can go back & forth between the ship and land in the dark so either they're on land, or back on the Marama for the evening here in a hour or so (2002Z). Speculating at this point...
NØUN
I wouldn't think you can go back & forth between the ship and land in the dark
Since Cape Fie is on the South East side of Bouvet from my point of view and because 60 feet up the side of the glacier doesn't sound like they would even have a clear shot to the North, are they going to drag all the equipment further up in altitude to a better location with a clear view to North America and Europe or will they operate close to Cape Fie on the South side?
I have no problem doing long path if that's the only option but I figure its best to ask now and plan my beam headings before all of the calling starts.
We will hopefully soon see if we have short-path signals to NA! I know Chuck Brady was on the Western side of Bouvet with perfect shot with zero mountains to NA.
Lot's of spots on the cluster from guys honestly believing 3Y0J has started. "Work first worry later" their spots say. :) :) :)Every time I see these kind of spots I wonder why QRZ does not have their own Spotting server. A server that you can log onto using your QRZ credentials.
This is my favorite 3Y0J spot so far from someone who's confused about where penguins live.
(https://i.ibb.co/6W4VnGF/Capture.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Tom KH0/KC0W
This is my favorite 3Y0J spot so far from someone who's confused about where penguins live.
Aren't there penguins on Bouvet? We have them in Australia, and certainly on Macquarie Island.
Having worked Cezar on the boat as they approached Bouvet, I am confident in at least a 20 m CW QSO with 3Y0J, and they have a clear path to VK.
(https://i.ibb.co/HN0txTf/1.png) (https://ibb.co/jVdyWkP)
It would be a good omen if they were Marconi penguins instead of macaroni penguins.
do any of you from the US have 3y on 30,40 or even 80m ? i have only heard of qso's 20m and above. ?Just out of curiosity, I checked some of the top stations in the PVRC club league on ClubLog and I am seeing a number of stations with low band QSOs to Bouvet. For instance, W4DR and W3UR have Bouvet confirmed on every HF band (Except for 60m), including 80 and 160m. Impressive!
During some of the prior 3Y expeditions, they were calling CQ near the end with no/few takers.
Just out of curiosity, I checked some of the top stations in the PVRC club league on ClubLog and I am seeing a number of stations with low band QSOs to Bouvet. For instance, W4DR and W3UR have Bouvet confirmed on every HF band (Except for 60m), including 80 and 160m. Impressive!
73
Mason - KM4SII
Just out of curiosity, I checked some of the top stations in the PVRC club league on ClubLog and I am seeing a number of stations with low band QSOs to Bouvet. For instance, W4DR and W3UR have Bouvet confirmed on every HF band (Except for 60m), including 80 and 160m. Impressive!
73
Mason - KM4SII
Do any of you from the US have 3y on 30,40 or even 80m ? i have only heard of qso's 20m and above?The last big Bouvet expedition was before my time, however I got all the Southern Ocean entities on 30, 40, and 80 that have been active on the lowbands in the last 20 years. A couple on 160 as well. But Heard, Peter1, South Georgia, South Sandwich, South Orkney, Amsterdam, all worked on 80 and 40. Just a vee on 80 at 60 feet, and a short Yagi on 40 at about 68 feet, and 1400 W.
1. VK's will have to fight with auroral/muf zone propagation absorption on all paths.
2. VK is SE of Bouvet, its either on the back of, or on the side of the beam of popular zones EU/JA/NA. Africa is always easy for the VK6's because of proximity a higher MUF and just being lucky enough to skirt the Auroral zone absorption. The signals from South America. Southern Africa and anything south or on the polar path extremes always has that watery aurora flutter.
3. VK/ZL/Oceania rarely gets serious attention from dx'peditions. We have to fight for every QSO either through Europe or JA pileups.
Just saw a message reported to be from the team, saying "this will not be a fullscale operation as planned but a smaller setup."
I'm bracing for impact when I see it on their official feeds.
Just saw a message reported to be from the team, saying "this will not be a fullscale operation as planned but a smaller setup."Oh crap!!
I'm bracing for impact when I see it on their official feeds.
I wonder if a Generator dropped into the Water. This was what I feared.
Thanks.
I think it's due to the weather. 60kt storms forecast. This is what was just released:
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Status Update:
3Y0J Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA has sent the following:
4 team members have spent 4 days on the island under difficult conditions. All team members are now back on the vessel and everyone is safe. Bouvet has proved to be a difficult destination to activate, and the team is now adjusting our plans before we return to the island. The wx forecast for the weekend indicates a storm with 60 knot wind Sunday/Monday and depending on this storm we will assess the situation and go onshore when conditions are good. This will not be a fullscale operation as planned but a smaller setup. We have a good overview of the camp and the possibilities, and will attempt to continue building the camp. We have infrastructure on the island including access to the camp.
We will send the next update later.
73, 3Y0J team
i remember ft5zm it took them 2or 3 days till they got the first signal out and they didnt have to climb cliffs i'll be happy if they have a station going over the weekend. do any of you from the US have 3y on 30,40 or even 80m ? . . .
At this point I've lowered my expectations, but I'm hoping for at the very least one CW and one digital mode, and one or two new bands. Anything other than 20 SSB would be great, to be honest.i remember ft5zm it took them 2or 3 days till they got the first signal out and they didnt have to climb cliffs i'll be happy if they have a station going over the weekend. do any of you from the US have 3y on 30,40 or even 80m ? . . .I think it’ll be next Tuesday at minimum . . as for Bouvet, I have it cfd using cw on 10, 20 and 40m, 100w.
Just saw a message reported to be from the team, saying "this will not be a fullscale operation as planned but a smaller setup."
I'm bracing for impact when I see it on their official feeds.
Oh crap!!
I wonder if a Generator dropped into the Water. This was what I feared.
I think you are right. This has got to be one of the toughest things a person can do. Carrying all that gear over has got to be a nightmare.
I'm guessing they way over estimated how much gear they would be able to get ashore in a few days and now realize they won't operate many days if they try and get everything brought over and setup and then allow for tear down and return to the boat.
I saw the offical vegas over/under on FT8 Q's was 78%. I dropped a hundred on the over.
Gino - KE8KMX
At this point I've lowered my expectations
Don't worry about this. We already have conducted a "lesson learned" from other DXpeditions. When it comes to this specific thing we have split our 7,5 metric ton of gear in several STEPS. You can access our webpage to see how the camp, antenna and station setup will be done.
The weather on both Islands seems to change rapidly hour by hour so I am a bit worried for 3Y0J and how they are going to get that much equipment on the island by small boats.
Meaning that we already in the planning stage have considered the very likely scenario that we will only have a short wx window of a few hours to be able to set up a small camp. So our approach is to start with a LIGHTWEIGHT STEP1 of 1500 kg, estimated to 5-6 boat rides, which only includes the minimal amount of equipment, food, water, medications etc to be able to setup a SMALL camp. Then we have designed additional steps 2 to 4 that additionally expands the camp. In addition we have implemented measure so that we can ration the amount of fuel, heating, food and water so any team that land on the island will survive for 28 days without resupplies. Landing by zodiak is not any issue at all, we have previous videos demonstrating the feasibility of this.In addition we have implemented measures that allows us to work in parallell. We will have 2 zodkas that can do the landing, this will speed up the process. We have implemented a fuel pump system that will easily pump the diesel from beach into camp. We have several other possibilities to hoist up the equipment into the camp. Contrary to many other DXpeditions our approach is to do the job ourselves. The lesson learned session has also included other aspects.
Merry christmas!
It will be interesting to find out if they are trying to execute their original plan of the small STEP1 camp first or they are going with a different strategy. Praying for the safety of the team.
73 Rich KB8GAE
"......a smaller setup"....
This could take different forms. Will be interesting to see what station configuration choices they make in the challenging conditions they face.
i remember ft5zm it took them 2or 3 days till they got the first signal out and they didnt have to climb cliffs i'll be happy if they have a station going over the weekend. do any of you from the US have 3y on 30,40 or even 80m ? i have only heard of qso's 20m and above. ? after 12 months plus i got my amp going yay.
Don't worry about this. We already have conducted a "lesson learned" from other DXpeditions. (etc)
……. and then the ship’s engines went on the Fritz and the whole thing was done.
……. and then the ship’s engines went on the Fritz and the whole thing was done.
no 3y5x was in 1989/1990 they had helicopter watch the video.
"......a smaller setup"....
This could take different forms. Will be interesting to see what station configuration choices they make in the challenging conditions they face.
I suspect that they discovered those Zodiac boats weren’t suitable for carrying them or their gear over to the island.
It’s a pity we don’t have a better idea of just what’s been done so far, pad prep for the shelters and ? Is a shelter already erected? We’re they on island for whole four days or we’re they “commuting” back to Marama? Just how much of their gear is now ashore and so on. On their website 3y0.no they show three steps, looks like even Step1 might be too hard. I hope not.
Here is the VP8STI 2016 South Sandwich video. Very similar conditions to Bouvet from what I am seeing.
Video link: https://vimeo.com/170266606
I have to disagree. If you are there for almost a week and have a small portion of the team having even set foot on the island, no actual antennas in the air, and looking at possibly another 5 - 6 days before you can add to where you are now, I doubt that was anticipated.
I think they are making the right decisions based on what they have and what they are faced with, but I don't really think this was close to the plan. The first calm (meaning only 6 - 8ft swells) and reasonable day since their arrival looks to be Saturday - Feb 11.
They also have to be sure they can get off when they need to leave. These are very tough decisions.
Ed N1UR
Man oh man, I sure hope they can weather this - forget about radio - there's 16 souls onboard. NOTHING is more important to them right now but their safety - nothing.
Old Sailors saying:
Below latitude 40 degrees south there is no law.
Below 50 degrees south, there is no god.
Bouvet is 54 degrees South in the furious 50's and screaming 60's.
They will need all the luck that they can get!
I tried asking on the FB group about what they have managed to get onto the Island after 4 days but it wasn't approved so that sort of says a lot,Only the admin is posting in the 3Y0J Facebook group. All others may comment on his posts, but it does not seem like they are permitted to make their own posts. I presume this is to keep things organized.
This is a stupid question but why is 54S so bad, the North of Ireland is 54N and we are a small rock in a big ocean all be it a lot larger than Bouvet but we don't see the extremes they do, same for further North like TF SM OY ect ??
The landing spot chosen cannot be safely activated - best option is to relocate the boat and land at Nyrøysa base on the northwest corner of Bouvet.
my thoughts are we might be looking a vertical only operation if the winds are that bad. i also wondering if the weight of the 5 kw generators might be the problem. did they take any smaller generators?
my hope is to hear them if i hear them then i would like to work them it should be fun. i have worked quite a few of the ops from tough dxcc when they had 100 and wire and generally got 1 qso here is hoping. and that they are safe. i think the next operation to 3y would be a massive one with a big ship and helicopter
Man oh man, I sure hope they can weather this - forget about radio - there's 16 souls onboard. NOTHING is more important to them right now but their safety - nothing.
NØUN
This is a stupid question but why is 54S so bad, the North of Ireland is 54N and we are a small rock in a big ocean all be it a lot larger than Bouvet but we don't see the extremes they do, same for further North like TF SM OY ect ??
we might be looking a vertical only operation if the winds are that bad.
The landing spot chosen cannot be safely activated - best option is to relocate the boat and land at Nyrøysa base on the northwest corner of Bouvet.
The downside is that I doubt another dxpedition will be funded again once they are in the logs.I think this will be the last attempted activation of Bouvet for an extremely long time, full stop. This was just shy of $1M, and the one with the broken ship was in the same range. At this point, I think to do it successfully might require the kind of money that cannot be raised within the amateur community, not to mention an icebreaker-class ship, a chopper, unlimited time and the ability to wait out storms for weeks, etc. I still hope they can salvage some time on the air, even if it's far less than originally anticipated, but obviously safety has to take precedence here.
Could very well be the best plan yet (as crazy as it sounded at the time):
QuoteCould very well be the best plan yet (as crazy as it sounded at the time):
If, for instance, for selected entities, we allowed /MM within, say, 50 miles, we could get them activated for far, far less money and risk.
QuoteCould very well be the best plan yet (as crazy as it sounded at the time):
If, for instance, for selected entities, we allowed /MM within, say, 50 miles, we could get them activated for far, far less money and risk.
Maybe a bit closer than 50 miles - maybe close enough to make a good selfie pic with the island in the background? Kinda like Gus Browning "may" have done?
http://www.callingdx.com/BOUVET-1.png
Randy / WB9LUR
Seems you didn't know Gus Browning.
Maybe a bit closer than 50 miles - maybe close enough to make a good selfie pic with the island in the background? Kinda like Gus Browning "may" have done?
Randy / WB9LUR
As to the "close enough" nonsense, credibility matters.
Could very well be the best plan yet (as crazy as it sounded at the time):
https://www.on4ww.be/bouvet2016.html (https://www.on4ww.be/bouvet2016.html)
NØUN
To state the obvious, it’s been done numerous times for various amounts.QuoteAs to the "close enough" nonsense, credibility matters.
So is do-ability and do-ability for a price.
If everyone knows, up front, what the rules are, there's no problem. Moreover, we can certainly prove, with today's GPS technology, that they were where they say they were. It's no harder and no different than proving that one actually made it to the bottom tip of Big Bend to that tiny patch of land that is in that grid in the US.
We already have several special areas, like Western Sahara, for which we have made special rules. So, it's not like we have a pristine set of inviolable rules today.
What we have in DXCC is a set of rules blessed by nothing but history. And, we can change it if it strengthens the program.
Having a half dozen DXCC that cost one to three million dollars to adequately activate seems like a poor way to run this particular railroad.
It's amazing to me that a Dog needs surgery and someone can raise $200K on gofundme and yet 3 million Ham operators cannot raise $1.5 million to do a full scale Dxpedition with a big ship and helicopters.
Doesn't sound like it. Only 4 ops have been on the island I believe.
Ed N1UR
We can and do raise money for near 7 figure DXpeditions, the question is how often can we be expected to do that? Once a year? The DX community is ageing well past retirement. Most are on fixed incomes and some have made their fortunes, or are at least comfortable. I help fund as many as I can individually and as a member of my local club (LSDXA) and NCDXF. When I look at individual sponsors on DXpedition websites it's always the same 50-100 callsigns. I don't know how to get more hams to step up or what the answer is but I think we'll see less and less of the mega-DXpeditions.
Thus far, the only thing special here is the incessant unfounded speculation with a dash of “it’s hard to do” as some dubious rationalization for changing the rules.
I reset my goals a while back after a good friend of mine waited and waited and waited for Navassa, just to get the chip shot, then die less than a year later. Once he had them all, he just plain quit. I did not like the way he went out, it hurt my head to see all that anticipation, then to watch and listen to him quit once he got it. And not just radio. I asked his daughter if she placed his #1 plaque in his coffin, and she said they fried him and, "do you want his plaque?" I thought I may NEVER want a #1 plaque after that! After all, this whole radio thing is just kinda' a weird hobby that few understand anyway.
After all, this whole radio thing is just kinda' a weird hobby that few understand anyway.
It's amazing to me that a Dog needs surgery and someone can raise $200K on gofundme and yet 3 million Ham operators cannot raise $1.5 million to do a full scale Dxpedition with a big ship and helicopters.
I think a really good op can still do HR in one sunspot cycle. But it is not as easy for even that as it once was.
I have decided not to care about #1 HR either.
So for me, personally, I'll laugh hard (and you can all join me) if I ever actually do it. Even if it is 10 minutes before the dirt nap. It's not an objective. I missed Glorioso while looking for a job. I am indifferent to whether I ever get P5. There's a handful of others, none of which are looking good for the imaginable future.
But, I did know another friend who quit after he made HR. Turns out, his neighbors complained and he decided to listen to them (legally, he could have told them off). So, he made HR and promptly sold out, went into photography. Which is sad because he was the guy who taught me to read a pileup.
...My big one was 5BWAZ. That was the one I really wanted. I've almost completed a interesting-to-me-only 2nd time on that one. I've nearly completed DXCC Challenge 2500 (probably this year or next).
After all, this whole radio thing is just kinda' a weird hobby that few understand anyway.
I have run into some REAL weirdo’s in this hobby. I mean, really strange people. “Eccentric” might be a better description of them. I guess my detractors might say the same about me, but man, there are some certifiably crazy F’n amateurs out there.
Tom KH0/KC0W
but Z24 and Z26 on 80 just aren't possible from here barring nothing short of a full-on propagation miracle, during which I'll likely be asleep.!
As far as I know it is called remote operation and is legal in most countries. Wi-Fi link is easy to make as well RHR's HH2AA is an excellent and efficient example.
Although I'm not in favor of /MM offshore counting as the entity, I would be in favor of a RIB (Radio In a Box) where a team would go to the island, setup the antennas, drop off the RIB, and then do their operations from the safety and comfort of the ship. Not only would this be safer, but considerably less expensive as you don't have to equip for the tents, generators, generator fuel, etc. And it might make it easier to get permission for an operation as you don't have 11 operators trouncing around the island. Just a initial team for setup and teardown.
John K7KB
Bouvet has another visitor:
(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-06-090345.png)
NØUN
Pete both those zones are on almost daily, 3W1T has a big signal from Z26 and I even worked 2 from Z24 last Friday, and all I have is a center loaded 1/4 wave with a very high noise floor, unless you are trying to do it all in CW or SSB of course,Those two zones are an order of magnitude easier from Ireland than they are from the east coast of the U.S., unfortunately. Both of those zones are not only polar paths (26 is 0° and 24 is about 350°), but the distances are over 8500 miles from here. The nearest analog to that for you would be the South Pacific islands in Z32, however there are far more operators (and DXpeditions) in those islands, and it also includes ZL.
Trevor EI2GLB
I reset my goals a while back after a good friend of mine waited and waited and waited for Navassa, just to get the chip shot, then die less than a year later. Once he had them all, he just plain quit. I did not like the way he went out, it hurt my head to see all that anticipation, then to watch and listen to him quit once he got it. And not just radio. I asked his daughter if she placed his #1 plaque in his coffin, and she said they fried him and, "do you want his plaque?" I thought I may NEVER want a #1 plaque after that! After all, this whole radio thing is just kinda' a weird hobby that few understand anyway.
Here's another tip for CW DXers! Stash That Paddle (https://www.n0un.net/elevated-radio/)
The 3Y0J Team was able to land yesterday at the island. Eight operators plus Peter are on the island. They managed to secure the tent and camp.
Due to the strong and challenging conditions, we are using two K3 radios running 100w, wire antennas, and the Honda generator. Please remember that the 3Y0J team will always be operating split. Never transmit on their frequency.
We ask that people that have Bouvet already confirmed on some bands please do not work us again to allow an opportunity to many others get Bouvet for an All Time New One
Yeah I only see EU stations but it's funny that when I turn my beam towards the EU I can hear a few US stations calling him :-X
I forgot how many nut jobs come out of the woodwork to QRM these Dxpedtions.
They are using remote stations in EU, or using EU SDR's.
NØUN
They are using remote stations in EU, or using EU SDR's.
NØUN
How exactly do you know this? 3Y0J was spotted on the RBN on the east coast (12m, CW), including skimmers at K1TTT and W3LPL. I'll give the benefit of doubt that some US operators heard them without cheating.
I'd love to find the SDR people use that can hear them,I can hear them on the KiwiSDR in Kenya. The one in South Africa is at capacity ;D
DQRM on 30m is crazy and they are super weak id love to find the SDR people use that can hear them,
I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.
73 Rich KB8GAE
I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.
73 Rich KB8GAE
Yeah I kind of figured that was what was happening. I should start writing down the call signs ;).Yeah I only see EU stations but it's funny that when I turn my beam towards the EU I can hear a few US stations calling him :-X
I forgot how many nut jobs come out of the woodwork to QRM these Dxpedtions.
They are using remote stations in EU, or using EU SDR's.
I recognized a few of the 15 Meter Kilocycle Cops voices and you can hear the remote knuckleheads that aren't smart enough to realize they are transmitting on the 3Y0J TX frequency.
NØUN
Remind me again why "old-school" CW DXing is so much better? There are far too many seriously mentally-ill people out there today to make this enjoyable. I'm just after one CW QSO at this point, and one digital.I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.
This is where experience comes in. You can always tell a weak SSB or CW signal from the Arctic area vs one that is coming from Somewhere else. If it's not weak then that is another reason to be suspicious.I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.
73 Rich KB8GAE
Yup. I heard someone 20 over S9 "working people" for a few mins.
All of this - typical 1st day idiots. A complete zoo of people with maybe 1/2 a brain cell combined.
Remind me again why "old-school" CW DXing is so much better? There are far too many seriously mentally-ill people out there today to make this enjoyable. I'm just after one CW QSO at this point, and one digital.I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.
Remind me again why "old-school" CW DXing is so much better?I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.
30m CW is an utter clown-fest right now. I'm already sick of the DQRM...
I would suspect that many of the so-called "CW ops" that you are hearing are not frequent CW users. I'd wager that there are some phone / FT8 ops that even had to go out and buy a key.
Someone has been "tuning" for the last 5 or so mins. It would be nice if their finals blew. I reckon some of these people never matured past grade school..
Hoping after they go to bed band conditions improve and we get a shot at hearing them in NA.
Is the station on 10.115 CW now real or fake? Very good at picking out callsigns, but sending more slowly than I might expect (~25 wpm).
Remember EAHSYL/EASSYL/EA5SYL?
Got him @0335 on 30m. Tough as any low band QSO I ever made. Sure hope they upload to ClubLog as I will be relieved to see it with my own two eyes. Shoulda been pounding in at that time. I think the mountain is really gonna make it tough for some parts of NA. His SR. Really good op.
Remember EAHSYL/EASSYL/EA5SYL?
Yes, I do remember thatfamousinfamous QRM'er but I can't recall the DXpedition he was QRMing. Was it the DXpedition to Navasa back in 2015 as K1N?
Tom KH0/KC0W
Got him @0335 on 30m. Tough as any low band QSO I ever made. Sure hope they upload to ClubLog as I will be relieved to see it with my own two eyes. Shoulda been pounding in at that time. I think the mountain is really gonna make it tough for some parts of NA. His SR. Really good op.Congrats on the QSO! Have not been able to hear them at any readable level since they briefly came out of the noise around 7:30 PM local. Only a faint trace now with a few dits making it through every now and then.
Just what he sounded like here, Lumpy. I did exactly what you did. I thought he came back to me and sent my call twice and a "?" and got a confirmation. For others on the list, Lumpy and I are about 70 miles apart by air, separated by a few mountains.
Quite a bit stronger now on 30m CW! Nice readable s4 signal.Yes, good signal here (0545-0620z and counting), but mostly working Japan. Edited to add that I finally got through shortly after posting initially—I hope—after hearing a couple of 5NN-TU calls for #333 worked on CW. Telling that all the DQRM went away after about 2 or 3am in Europe. Just sayin'.
Got him @0335 on 30m. Tough as any low band QSO I ever made. Sure hope they upload to ClubLog as I will be relieved to see it with my own two eyes. Shoulda been pounding in at that time. I think the mountain is really gonna make it tough for some parts of NA. His SR. Really good op.Yes, first-class CW man. If they can get a couple of amps running, on bands where QRO can be used, I don't think it will be quite as bad as all that. He was strong here after 06z, and if he was only running 100W and a compromised antenna I'm thinking 15 and up will be fairly easy with power. Congrats on getting through the pile. I decided my evening hours would be better spent in front of the boob-tube then getting my taxes ready for the accountant.
I *think* I can hear them on 10115.3 kHz on Long Path. Still hours until our sunset. Well after theirs already.Given the time you posted (around 07z), they're well into daylight on Bouvet by that time.
Nothing heard this morning apart from LIDs.
Still there very weak here, still well before our sunset. The pileup still goes up to 10143 kHz, so many are still hearing him. I would be able to work them now, if not for that HUGE pileup!I *think* I can hear them on 10115.3 kHz on Long Path. Still hours until our sunset. Well after theirs already.Given the time you posted (around 07z), they're well into daylight on Bouvet by that time.
Nothing heard this morning apart from LIDs.
I decided my evening hours would be better spent in front of the boob-tube then getting my taxes ready for the accountant.
If you like a speedy tax return DON'T move here.That was like me a few years ago. I was submitting multiple years tax returns after the Tax Office sent me a nasty letter! I've been keeping on top of it the past couple of years. They don't get anything off me anyway.
The minimum tax return time is about one year with quite a few people waiting two years or more for their tax returns
Tom KH0/KC0W
Interesting that with 8 operators on the island, only one station on at night. Does that make sense to anyone?
Interesting that with 8 operators on the island, only one station on at night. Does that make sense to anyone?
No. Neither does not operating FT8 from day 1 onwards to give small peashooters and big guns ample chance to work them.
Most major DXpeditions between 2010 and 2015. He was eventually caught. https://www.okdxf.eu/files/DFing-DQRM.pdf (https://www.okdxf.eu/files/DFing-DQRM.pdf)"IARU Region 1 wrote to ‘EASSYL’ explaining that the offending station had been located very close to his address and asking for his help to identify the culprit."
Interesting that with 8 operators on the island, only one station on at night. Does that make sense to anyone? 20M should be open to somewhere pretty much 24/7 with the solar cycle progress and if you can put up a 30M antenna, surely you can put up a 40M antenna, right?
It was also very interesting to see just how small the zodiacs they are using. The compromises made to use the sailboat really cost them I think. With a bit larger boats, they probably could have used the earlier last week reasonable conditions to get a lot on shore.
I really think they underestimated the zodiac landing challenge vs the typical conditions on Bouvet.
But at least they are on. And no one is hurt. That's not the worst outcome by any means.
Ed N1UR
Well my refund days are long past. I'm a sole proprietorship and I don't make quarterly pre-payments, so I get royally hosed living in NJ. My accountant is a member of my Jeep club (my previous accountant was a big-name contester, K2TTT, who became an SK a few years back—F@#$ Cancer!), so at least he can distract me as he gives me the bad news. I have to program his GMRS radio and scanner for him as well.I decided my evening hours would be better spent in front of the boob-tube then getting my taxes ready for the accountant.If you like a speedy tax return DON'T move here. The minimum tax return time is about one year with quite a few people waiting two years or more for their tax returns.
Steve Hass
26 min ·
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA has informed me that the 3Y0J Team has secured the campsite. They had a good night there last night. They will be running one station at night and two stations during the day. They will operate bands from 12m-30m. If you see a spot outside of those bands it’s a pirate. We will be operating CW & SSB at this time. Watch the DX Cluster for QSY information. If you already have Bouvet in your log please standby and let those operators who need Bouvet for an ATNO work us. There is a storm coming on Thursday that may affect operations. Please continue to watch for updates here.
73,
Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/)
Interesting that with 8 operators on the island, only one station on at night. Does that make sense to anyone?
No. Neither does not operating FT8 from day 1 onwards to give small peashooters and big guns ample chance to work them.
...They should concentrate on FT8...
...They should concentrate on FT8...
The original plan was amplifiers for CW and SSB and 100 watts for FT-8. With a downsized operation, assuming they can get a couple of amplifiers going, I think they should time-share CW, SSB, and 1,000 watts on FT-8. If they do that on FT8 they can go 5 streams wide at 200 watts each and make 300+ Q's per hour easy. They would hand out a lot more ATNO's that way. -- Jim K6OK
I only gave them a 10% chance getting on the air. Hope you bet against me.
After seeing where they are up the mountain "wall", and seeing what they have to do in a zodiac to even get to the island from the distant Marama, after closely watching the wind & weather forecasts - I give them less than 1% of getting any amplifier, beam, or heavy generator up there. I'd say zero chance, but my 10% observation was already wrong so I'll stick to 1%.
Hope you can see what they (and we) are up against. You don't need a Facebook account to see their posts, pictures or videos:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129)
NØUN
Although it may seem counter-intuitive, small is safer than large for a few reasons, principally to minimize the volume of water it might ‘take’ over the sides in rough conditions while maintaining the same buoyancy as a larger one.
1% sounds about right. Five guys in that Zodiac...looks like an over sized tire inner tube. They've got some big cajones navigating those waters in that thing.
I could hear them, barely S1. 6 el yagi on 45 ft boom at 100 ft with a fantastic shot in that direction. Terrain enhanced.
This one is not going to be a picnic.
And I agree with N0UN, after seeing the zodiac they are using (or now using if the other one got busted up), there is no way big hardware is coming ashore.
Ed N1UR
I only gave them a 10% chance getting on the air. Hope you bet against me.
After seeing where they are up the mountain "wall", and seeing what they have to do in a zodiac to even get to the island from the distant Marama, after closely watching the wind & weather forecasts - I give them less than 1% of getting any amplifier, beam, or heavy generator up there. I'd say zero chance, but my 10% observation was already wrong so I'll stick to 1%.
Hope you can see what they (and we) are up against. You don't need a Facebook account to see their posts, pictures or videos:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129)
NØUN
Interesting that with 8 operators on the island, only one station on at night. Does that make sense to anyone?
No. Neither does not operating FT8 from day 1 onwards to give small peashooters and big guns ample chance to work them.
A agree with the "world cruiser" comment. However most of them aren't trying to get a 120 lb 5kW generator and 500 gallons of fuel onto the beach. They are just trying to get close to shore to hop over and wade in. And the smaller Zodiac also makes for a smaller "hop".
Not sure if the other one was larger but what they show on that video is laughably small given the task to be performed.
Ed N1UR
A REAL expedition gets on the air, and ops are complaining they are not doing enough FT8. Bless your heart.
A REAL expedition gets on the air, and ops are complaining they are not doing enough FT8. Bless your heart.
The complaint is that they are not trying to maximize the amount and extent geographically of Q's made. Under their compomised working conditions FT8 makes the most sense to anyone without an emotional attachment to THEIR favorite mode/modes clouding rational thought.
Gino
...They should concentrate on FT8...
The original plan was amplifiers for CW and SSB and 100 watts for FT-8. With a downsized operation, assuming they can get a couple of amplifiers going, I think they should time-share CW, SSB, and 1,000 watts on FT-8. If they do that on FT8 they can go 5 streams wide at 200 watts each and make 300+ Q's per hour easy. They would hand out a lot more ATNO's that way. -- Jim K6OK
I have an SPE which is what I believe they are using, and it's a great amp. I can't imagine running it for hours on end at full smoke on FT8.
Also, dividing power amongst multiple streams doesn't work like that. From the manual, "if you are using N Slots signals, your average transmitted power will be P 0/(N Slots) and the power in each signal will be P 0/(N Slots)2. Thus, for N Slots = 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 the average power per signal will be down from P 0 by about 0, 6, 9.5, 12, and 14 dB, respectively." For 1.5 kW in 5 streams, that's 60 watts per stream.
1 kW on an SPE Expert 1.5K-FA is on MID setting isn't "full smoke," AFAIK.
Given the above let's say 800 watts 3 streams wide.
Latest update on FB is very interesting. Highlights: FT8 coming, but emphasis on CW and SSB. Hoping for 7-10 more days. The first log upload may be this weekend.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/)
Why concentrating on 30, 17, and 15 and skipping 20 is beyond me.
What happened to "use the mode needed to make the contact"?
Silly me for never having a Facebook account. Below is what non-Facebook users see when they try looking at the Facebook page of of 3Y0j. You cannot scroll past nor get rid of the "Not logged in" announcement.
(https://i.ibb.co/RBk7V3Y/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Br5wSyc)
Tom KH0/From Facebook…
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
Interview with 3Y0J Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA.
“Everything is OK in the camp. The guys are good. We have a few antennas up. Running some pileups and preparing for the storm which will arrive in a few hours and last until Thursday. The boat will pull away from the island a bit. The antennas and camp are being secured. The winds are expected to be 60 knots. 9 members will stay in the camp during the storm. They will try to run two bands this evening and tomorrow. They will take down one antenna. They will run 30m and 17m using the Spider Pole on 17 and the aluminum DX Engineering antenna on 30m.
The operation has proved to be extremely difficult. The most extreme expedition I’ve been to. Setting up the camp has been a lot of work.
We will focus on CW and phone but there will be FT8. We have just discussed this today. We are running low power, only 100w. We have no amplifiers. We have three antennas set up. We are considering setting up 20m as well. So we will have 30, 20, 17, 15.
The beach landings were accomplished by holding onto a line attached to a buoy and floating 15 meters to the beach in our survival suits. This is quite extreme. We float in all the equipment as well. Then carry the equipment 800 feet up to the camp. We have videos of this. We spent a few days to set up the antennas and tent then prepared for the storm that is coming.
Everybody is in good shape. It’s quite hard to stay here. A lot of wind, but today was a quiet, nice, and sunny day . This will change, and there will be a lot of rain. The day we arrived was a lot of wind and rain. Activating Bouvet is not like activating an island in the Caribbean. It is really windy, cold, and exhausting to bring equipment up here. It’s a different DXpedition than we thought we should do. It’s a challenge, but we hope we can stay on the island for some more days.
Regarding dupes, please only call us if you hear us. We have very good receive here on Bouvais Island. We do not have any facility to upload the log on the island. We are saving on fuel and connection for this. When we get back to the vessel, we will likely upload. We don’t know when the first upload will be. Going to Marama is very time consuming project because of the procedure involved. (Ken describes it.) The first upload may be in the weekend. Again, if you don’t hear us, don’t call us.
Nothing more to report. Hopefully people understand the complexity of this operation. Hopefully we will be able to stay another 7 to 10 days. We are working on plans for how to continue the operation despite the difficult weather conditions here at Bouvet.”
73,
Steve N2AJ
Sent from my iPad
Silly me for never having a Facebook account. Below is what non-Facebook users see when they try looking at the Facebook page of of 3Y0j. You cannot scroll past nor get rid of the "Not logged in" announcement.
Tom KH0/KC0W
Silly me for never having a Facebook account. Below is what non-Facebook users see when they try looking at the Facebook page of of 3Y0j. You cannot scroll past nor get rid of the "Not logged in" announcement.
(https://i.ibb.co/RBk7V3Y/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Br5wSyc)
Tom KH0/KC0W
to hear what you aren't missing listen hereNow that DQRM is ALL I was hearing here the past two mornings.
I can hear them a little bit - I can hear him in there... I can make out the 599's and TU's but not quite able to clearly hear calls yet. A little better than last night. Not quite loud enough to call. Then of course the lidfest.Seems about the same as last night. Came up out of the noise slightly around 01z, and again much stronger around 06z. Right now I am in the same boat as you... I can hear him but not well enough to call.
Try this direct link for a couple videos and a few pictures:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/posts/4647245552066609/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/posts/4647245552066609/)
Try this direct link for a couple videos and a few pictures:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/posts/4647245552066609/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/posts/4647245552066609/)
I can access that one...........Thanks.
I doubt anyone with deep pockets ever said, "hey, we'll give you $100,000 if you concentrate on FT8".
What happened to "use the mode needed to make the contact"?
73
Jim
This was the theme wasn't it?
Perhaps now there will be a better understanding of why dxers upgraded their stations in the era of only the traditional modes.
What happened to "use the mode needed to make the contact"?
73
Jim
Here might be a few but those calling simplex deserve the disappointment.
Me thinks there's gonna' be a bunch of broken hearts when the logs are uploaded. I can't tell you how many folks think they worked 3Y0J when first of all they called on the 3Y0J TX frequency, then some ass repeats their call with a 599 and a TU follows.
NØUN
Here might be a few but those calling simplex deserve the disappointment.
Me thinks there's gonna' be a bunch of broken hearts when the logs are uploaded. I can't tell you how many folks think they worked 3Y0J when first of all they called on the 3Y0J TX frequency, then some ass repeats their call with a 599 and a TU follows.
NØUN
All things considered, they are doing great and their rate seems good according to the cluster comments. And at least they got on the air which is better than failure.
Wow, the natives are getting really, really restless. I haven't seen people $hitting on a DXpedition like this in terms of crazy DX spots in many years.
I got to say that listening to his CW op run the pileup was pretty amazing.
The only hitch was that a lot of guys seemed to be throwing out their calls without truly being able to hear the Op. It looked like about 1 in 4 calls was an operator who did not respond when he called back.
Seems about the same as last night. Came up out of the noise slightly around 01z, and again much stronger around 06z. Right now I am in the same boat as you... I can hear him but not well enough to call.
Pretty sure many could hear him fine and called in the hopes they would catch a non-DQRM window to hear the response. It's hard enough in the pileup, now you have to have luck catching a break from the DQRM. I have never heard it so bad.
I was hearing him pretty good last night and thought I heard my call but the QRM was so bad that I kept calling till I was able to hear my call sign in the clear......
Pretty sure many could hear him fine and called in the hopes they would catch a non-DQRM window to hear the response. It's hard enough in the pileup, now you have to have luck catching a break from the DQRM. I have never heard it so bad.
I still cannot fathom why they did not bring a big enough generator on shore so they could use an Amplifier.
Have you seen how they get gear on and off the island?
Anybody willing to wager that the sponsors, foundations, clubs that donated all the big money to make this attempt have called for SSB and CW? That's a smart betActually the smart bet is that most sponsors, foundations, and clubs donated all the big money to make as many unique/ATNO contacts as possible, no matter what mode they were using.
BTW can anybody tell me how to turn on the ignore option?
Everyone else seems to be using it except for me!
Decent copy now but the DQRM is absolutely insane. He's being covered for minutes at a time :P
He is surprisingly loud here right now.I'm using a three element yagi, and beverages. They haven't been strong enough to be sure its them yet on 30 m. And I'm much closer and have a pretty clear shot at them.
I'm using the same antenna they are - a DX Engineering 30M Comtek Vertical (https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/com-30va). Really heavy duty, awesome craftsmanship - $300 well spent me thinks.
NØUN
Very loud in here for a good 2+ hours on 30m. Didn't make it through yet but the first night for me of decent sigs. Hopefully we get more prop like this!Same here... I've been trying for 2 hours and no luck, unfortunately. Signals again peaked in 06z hour and then started to fade around 07z. Called it quits at 0730z as his signal was getting too weak to copy.
Anyone know why they are not using the hoisting equipment which they specially made for the expedition?
If you can't get the equipment to the beach you can't hoist it,
Looks like the zodiacs are the issue they can't get the last 150m and you can't float a 500kg diesel generator in the sea unfortunately
Lucky they brought the little Honda but seemly there might be a shortage of petrol as they planned to use diesel, it was only to be used for charging tools and other stuff according to the original plan,Anyone know why they are not using the hoisting equipment which they specially made for the expedition?
If you can't get the equipment to the beach you can't hoist it,
Looks like the zodiacs are the issue they can't get the last 150m and you can't float a 500kg diesel generator in the sea unfortunatelyAnyone know why they are not using the hoisting equipment which they specially made for the expedition?
It's 15m not 150m, see Facebook. 150 meters and a 500 kg diesel generator, you have a tendency to exaggerate matters.
If you can't get the equipment to the beach you can't hoist it,
Looks like the zodiacs are the issue they can't get the last 150m and you can't float a 500kg diesel generator in the sea unfortunatelyAnyone know why they are not using the hoisting equipment which they specially made for the expedition?
It's 15m not 150m, see Facebook. 150 meters and a 500 kg diesel generator, you obviously like to exaggerate matters.
i think i got them we had a big opening to vk on 17m cw finger crossed.
OK you guys down under. Is 15m still open there? He's on 21105 FT8, F/H.
They planned for this beach landing and they knew exactly what the sea conditions would be like. This is why others have used a Helicopter!
The storm is not something they could have anticipated but getting the proper Generator on the Beach by the fifth day of landing when you have typical Bouvet weather is something pretty critical to a 3Y0 Dxpedition.
He's not F/H -- transmitting in the odd sequence. Probably a pirate.
OK you guys down under. Is 15m still open there? He's on 21105 FT8, F/H.
OK you guys down under. Is 15m still open there? He's on 21105 FT8, F/H.I tuned to the alleged 3Y0J on 21105 kHz and made a few calls as I was copying them. But I just let my transmission time out and turned off my station. I smelled a rat.
Same here... I've been trying for 2 hours and no luck, unfortunately. Signals again peaked in 06z hour and then started to fade around 07z. Called it quits at 0730z as his signal was getting too weak to copy.
73
Mason - KM4SII
I'm watching 15m FT8 now - not got a decode yet, but it's hilarious: half the stations are calling on evens and half on odds. Some well-respected callsigns in both groups, so maybe the real one and the pirate are active in different time slots?I only use FT8 on 2m and 440 but last I checked Fox/Hound mode is supposed to lock out the wrong timeslot depending on whether you select "Fox" or "Hound". So I guess people are using normal mode, or configured for Fox mode.
Thankfully I got them on 17m CW last night, the propagation peaked nicely to G after our sunset on both 17m and 15m.
That don't look good:Not sure it makes much difference going from 29 knots to 34 knots of wind.
(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-08-104801.png)
NØUN
That don't look good:Not sure it makes much difference going from 29 knots to 34 knots of wind.
(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-08-104801.png)
Listening on a European SDR indicates they are 59 there on 15M now.
If you have made a QSO with 3Y0J, and you are sure of it, the team has requested that you NOT TRY TO FILL OTHER BAND/MODE SLOTS. You are taking an ATNO away from someone else.
Yes, I know that you can’t be totally sure until the log upload (probably this weekend, has to be from the boat), but some of you really know, from the exchange, the timing, etc. that you got through. As the Beatles said, “Let it Be.”
The DXpedition is operating in a truly bare-bones backup mode, with no amplifiers, no big antennas, few stations, and no generator or fuel to power any of that even if they did have it.
The team will be lucky to get 20K QSOs instead of the intended 200K, and no one will be going to Bouvet for a long time after. Please DO spot them, help your friends and clubmates to get in the log, etc., but don’t try to fill slots.
In particular, the team has requested that if you have contacted them on CW or SSB, DO NOT CONTACT THEM ON FT8. FT8 operation began today, and may be the only means for more modest stations to get in the log. Give them a chance.
Also please note: 3Y0J may go QRT (or revert to even more limited operation) as a big storm is passing through between now and Thursday. They plan to take some antennas down to prevent damage. The nine on-island team members will remain on the island and hunker down, as it is too difficult and dangerous to go back to the Marama, which has moved even farther from Bouvet in preparation for the storm.
Rich KE1B
West Coast Pilot, 3Y0J
We are looking at the same forecast which indicates nothing like that.
It's the "red" headed their way - expecting 60 kt winds (70 MPH).
But you knew that...
NØUN
Hi I cant believe the Lidfest and abuse that is going on right now on 21.225mhz,its shocking ,3Y0J is strong and workable here in Ireland but the QRM is shocking,where is Ham Radio going
[FEBRUARY 8 @ 2000Z]
INFO BELOW BY WEST COAST PILOT STATION, RICH KE1B
If you have made a QSO with 3Y0J, and you are sure of it, the team has requested that you NOT TRY TO FILL OTHER BAND/MODE SLOTS. You are taking an ATNO away from someone else.
Yes, I know that you can’t be totally sure until the log upload (probably this weekend, has to be from the boat), but some of you really know, from the exchange, the timing, etc. that you got through. As the Beatles said, “Let it Be.”
The DXpedition is operating in a truly bare-bones backup mode, with no amplifiers, no big antennas, few stations, and no generator or fuel to power any of that even if they did have it.
The team will be lucky to get 20K QSOs instead of the intended 200K, and no one will be going to Bouvet for a long time after. Please DO spot them, help your friends and clubmates to get in the log, etc., but don’t try to fill slots.
In particular, the team has requested that if you have contacted them on CW or SSB, DO NOT CONTACT THEM ON FT8. FT8 operation began today, and may be the only means for more modest stations to get in the log. Give them a chance.
Also please note: 3Y0J may go QRT (or revert to even more limited operation) as a big storm is passing through between now and Thursday. They plan to take some antennas down to prevent damage. The nine on-island team members will remain on the island and hunker down, as it is too difficult and dangerous to go back to the Marama, which has moved even farther from Bouvet in preparation for the storm.
https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-island/ (https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-island/)
I can't see too many folks following any of those requests. A lot of greedy people out there... plus many don't read / ignore any updates or bulletins. Well, hopefully some people will listen.. I fall in the modest station category ::)
I suspect that in absence of a log - many who have had solid QSO's will suddenly doubt themselves - lots of QRM you know - they will need that "insurance" QSO just to be sure.
When (if?) ClubLog stats are available the DX pigs won't be able to hide.
Maybe we should create a special award for them? The DX Piggy...
Randy / WB9LUR
Congrats KB2FCV I heard that lol
FCV, I heard your QSO too! And I got ‘em a couple of minutes later for #330 on CW.
Paul
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?
Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?
Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?
NØUN
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?
Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?
Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?
NØUN
On the website if you look at the "System Diagrams" they posted, there is one Honda Eu20i listed, for "Tools, battery chargers, and additional electrical equipment". It is not clear if they have a second one as a backup.
Tor N4OGW
I've got a 6500W Honda inverter here that I use for Field Day when I do a 1E from home, but I'm also looking for a 2kW inverter that I can throw in the Jeep and go play radio on a mountaintop with at the end of June instead.Looking into getting one for around the house. I have a 12kW portable (on wheels) for power outages out here in the country, but I may get one of these (or similar) for quick, easy power.Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?On the website if you look at the "System Diagrams" they posted, there is one Honda Eu20i listed, for "Tools, battery chargers, and additional electrical equipment". It is not clear if they have a second one as a backup.
Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?
I've got a 6500W Honda inverter here that I use for Field Day when I do a 1E from home, but I'm also looking for a 2kW inverter that I can throw in the Jeep and go play radio on a mountaintop with at the end of June instead.Looking into getting one for around the house. I have a 12kW portable (on wheels) for power outages out here in the country, but I may get one of these (or similar) for quick, easy power.Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?On the website if you look at the "System Diagrams" they posted, there is one Honda Eu20i listed, for "Tools, battery chargers, and additional electrical equipment". It is not clear if they have a second one as a backup.
Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?
I give the ops there a lot of credit; once they catch a call sign they repeat it over and over till the QSO is confirmed. Sometimes 3 or 4 times. They must know how much DQRM we have; I have someone sounds “local” tuning up endlessly for the past 3 nights.
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?
Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?
Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?
NØUN
On the website if you look at the "System Diagrams" they posted, there is one Honda Eu20i listed, for "Tools, battery chargers, and additional electrical equipment". It is not clear if they have a second one as a backup.
Tor N4OGW
Looking into getting one for around the house. I have a 12kW portable (on wheels) for power outages out here in the country, but I may get one of these (or similar) for quick, easy power.
Thanks!
NØUN
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?
Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?
Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?
NØUN
On the website if you look at the "System Diagrams" they posted, there is one Honda Eu20i listed, for "Tools, battery chargers, and additional electrical equipment". It is not clear if they have a second one as a backup.
Tor N4OGW
Looking into getting one for around the house. I have a 12kW portable (on wheels) for power outages out here in the country, but I may get one of these (or similar) for quick, easy power.
Thanks!
NØUN
The EU20i is basically the EU2000i (or now the EU2200i) here. 2KW generator. Great little generator that is quiet, light (46lbs - I don't know why I remember that), sips gas (on econo mode it will go a good 10 hours on 1 gallon of gas). Since they are an inverter generator they are kind on electronics. It's what I use for power outages here (and sees use for field day). It's enough to run my sump pump, furnace in the winter, the fridge and a couple of lights... oh and my internet hardware. Good little generators.
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?
Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?
Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?
NØUN
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?
Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?
Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?
NØUN
N4OGW found it - a little over halfway down:
https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan (https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan)
I cannot imagine what they are feeling right now, after all they've been through.
(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-08-190805.png)
NØUN
I like your mention to our mutual friend about how to stop the DQRM. I agreed 100% - I for one would LOVE to see it. It was used years ago, and things got twisted around to make it look like the DX Station was the bad guy, but it would really work for this DXP me thinks. Got to think out of the box, love it!A real HR#1 old-timer in my club who I respect tremendously suggested it to me on the phone last night; he remembered when the originator of the practice did it in the old days (plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, and all that). I think if the practice is announced and made crystal clear via PR channels then the criticism would be mitigated somewhat, and only used when needed, of course.
During our IOTA trips in the Golf activating multiple islands off of LA/MS/TX coast, AB5EB, AD5A, XE2K and I (K0AP), we used HONDA1000 and HONDA2000 generators which worked flawlessly. We easily ran one radio from the 1000... plus few other things hooked up to it.If I can get a few interested folks I want to do a nice overlanding Field Day in Virginia using one of those and my K3s—CW only, of course! I tried to organize it last year but no takers. A nice 3-day combination of off-road driving, mountain-top camping, a serious 1E or 2E field day entry, and overland travel in the George Washington National Forest. Not quite the same as running global pileups from the #2 most-wanted DXCC entity, but still a fun operation (I hope).
The 2000 was capable of a lot more. We used KPA500 amplifier with these generators. Very reliable, zero issues. Also, not too heavy to carry and move around.
Update - Video Interview:
https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/534037238555991/ (https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/534037238555991/)
\Update - Video Interview:
https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/534037238555991/ (https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/534037238555991/)
If I'm ever in the market for a satellite phone The LAST model I will consider is this Icom.
N4OGW found it - a little over halfway down:
https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan (https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan)
N4OGW found it - a little over halfway down:
https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan (https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan)
(https://i.postimg.cc/FKnjVygW/generators2.jpg)
I like your mention to our mutual friend about how to stop the DQRM. I agreed 100% - I for one would LOVE to see it. It was used years ago, and things got twisted around to make it look like the DX Station was the bad guy, but it would really work for this DXP me thinks. Got to think out of the box, love it!A real HR#1 old-timer in my club who I respect tremendously suggested it to me on the phone last night; he remembered when the originator of the practice did it in the old days (plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, and all that). I think if the practice is announced and made crystal clear via PR channels then the criticism would be mitigated somewhat, and only used when needed, of course.
Anybody on the east coast seeing them print on 30m FT8? I see a crapload of callers, on BOTH slots (because of course), but not a single print. I was hearing them on 30 CW since the beginning but not a whisper on FT8, and nothing even on the bandscope below 500 Hz, which is where I assume they'd be transmitting if they're using F/H, which they said they would.No copy here. I'm thinking it is most likely a pirate. I have seen a few NA/SA stations sending R-xx reports, but most of the reports were pretty weak.
Yeah, I'm seeing reports and the occasional 73 being given too. All I can think is that if it's legit, the transmit power from each of the streams must be so weak there's just not enough signal overall to make it all the way up to Zone 5. As I'm writing this it's pretty close to dawn on Bouvet, so any greyline enhancement should be peaking right about now.Anybody on the east coast seeing them print on 30m FT8? I see a crapload of callers, on BOTH slots (because of course), but not a single print. I was hearing them on 30 CW since the beginning but not a whisper on FT8, and nothing even on the bandscope below 500 Hz, which is where I assume they'd be transmitting if they're using F/H, which they said they would.No copy here. I'm thinking it is most likely a pirate. I have seen a few NA/SA stations sending R-xx reports, but most of the reports were pretty weak.
Looks like the op is not sending 73 messages.I just saw "3Y0J" send a RR73. However, I doubt it is actually them given that they stressed that they would be using F/H only. WFWL of course!
Looks like the op is not sending 73 messages, but a report was received from both his operating slots.
For as much as I love working guys on CW, I really really wanted them on any digital mode. This puts me two back from digital Honor Roll now. HappyDance™ Time!
(https://i.postimg.cc/282XmnjT/Bouvet.jpg)
Naturally there were some real RocketSurgeons™ transmitting on the same AF and time slot 3Y0J...Because OF COURSE THERE WOULD BE. There should be a popup box that says "You must be ->THIS<- smart to operate FT8.
Dumb question. I'm not an FT8 user, obviously, am just curious - when the 3Y0J call sign is highlighted (in your image - had to enlarge it) it often is followed by a -10 or some other number - is this some sort of signal strength indicator?Not a dumb question at all, and you're quite correct. In normal FT8 both stations send reports where the caller typically sends AA1AAA XX9XXX -09, and the DX would reply XX9XXX AA1AAA R-10, meaning "roger, you're -10dB to me." Both stations would then exchange 73 messages. In this case, I believe the station signing as 3Y0J is not using F&H, but rather two stream MSHV.
Dumb question. I'm not an FT8 user, obviously, am just curious - when the 3Y0J call sign is highlighted (in your image - had to enlarge it) it often is followed by a -10 or some other number - is this some sort of signal strength indicator?Not a dumb question at all, and you're quite correct. In normal FT8 both stations send reports where the caller typically sends AA1AAA XX9XXX -09, and the DX would reply XX9XXX AA1AAA R-10, meaning "roger, you're -10dB to me." Both stations would then exchange 73 messages. In this case, I believe the station signing as 3Y0J is not using F&H, but rather two stream MSHV.
Seeing a bunch of stations calling, every now and then someone sends something about "even only" (TX sequence?) and when I first started spying I saw a few of these :
K7JFD RR73; JA0UUA <3Y0J> -10
Seeing a bunch of stations calling, every now and then someone sends something about "even only" (TX sequence?) and when I first started spying I saw a few of these :
K7JFD RR73; JA0UUA <3Y0J> -10
What I got was just a report, no 73, and sent in the "ODD" slot by the operator signing as 3Y0J. That is most definitely not F/H mode, unless the specs for F/H have changed in the last few months, and I'm not aware of that happening.
So you have pirates on FT8 as well - oldest sins in the newest ways.
Well, maybe that was the real 3Y0J on FT8, just using MSHV for some reason. They sent "QSY CW" and then immediately showed up on 10115 sounding exactly like they have the past few nights. And just as expected, they are starting to fade out now at 0720z.
I tried working them on both FT8 and CW, but still no joy. Been putting in as much BIC time as I can between school work. It's been nothing but studying and 3Y0J the past few days ;D
I wonder how soon they will run out of gas for the Honda EU20i? Since this was brought to run power tools and not radios I am guessing a single 5 gallon can. You don't want to carry much gas if any at all on a boat for saftey reasons. This genset will use about a gallon a day. They prob only have five days worth of gas, 10 if they brought 2 5 gallon cans but I would be surpised if they brought that much. 5 would have been way more than they need to power tools to build camp.
Gino
Also I wonder why the zodiacs can not make it the last 150m to shore, what would stop them,
73
Trevor
EI2GLB
Also I wonder why the zodiacs can not make it the last 150m to shore, what would stop them,
73
Trevor
EI2GLB
The last 15m to shore.
I know English is not your first language but please stop disagreeing with me,
Look at this video and around the 6 minute mark Ken clearly states 150m they have to float from,
https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/1318706922246702/
Have you nothing better to do than try to start an argument here ??Also I wonder why the zodiacs can not make it the last 150m to shore, what would stop them,
73
Trevor
EI2GLB
The last 15m to shore.
I know English is not your first language but please stop disagreeing with me,
Look at this video and around the 6 minute mark Ken clearly states 150m they have to float from,
https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/1318706922246702/
Have you nothing better to do than try to start an argument here ??Also I wonder why the zodiacs can not make it the last 150m to shore, what would stop them,
73
Trevor
EI2GLB
The last 15m to shore.
I know English is not your first language but please stop disagreeing with me,
Look at this video and around the 6 minute mark Ken clearly states 150m they have to float from,
https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/1318706922246702/
Have you nothing better to do than try to start an argument here ??Also I wonder why the zodiacs can not make it the last 150m to shore, what would stop them,
73
Trevor
EI2GLB
The last 15m to shore.
No I have nothing better to do while I wait for 3Y0J to produce a somewhat stronger and more consistent signal.
I think the only chance for "improvement" would be that they get on 10M or 20M as well. Why that seems impossible with 9 guys on an island with 7 of them looking for something to do most of the time is mind blowing quite frankly.
On one hand they are doing herculean work getting on the island at all given the unfortunate chain of events. On the other, it seems like they are standing around for days with their hands in the pockets and no one has a balun, 18 ft of wire, and a little bit of 1/8 inch twine.
I just don't get it. Especially as the overnight goes down to one radio. One radio. with 9 guys on the island? WTF
Ed N1UR
Am I reading the chatter on here right? Is anyone expressing their intentions to call 3Y0J again after already working them? And just for the mode? It's already been pointed out several times that they are asking not to call them again if you're sure you have a QSO. Well, of course we can never be absolutely sure without any log uploads, and someone who doesn't have Bouvet on a previous DXpedition may want an insurance contact. Doing it is one thing, but why get on this forum and talk about your intentions to call again, especially if you already have Bouvet confirmed? The final upload will be telling.
Well, maybe that was the real 3Y0J on FT8, just using MSHV for some reason. They sent "QSY CW" and then immediately showed up on 10115 sounding exactly like they have the past few nights. And just as expected, they are starting to fade out now at 0720z.
I tried working them on both FT8 and CW, but still no joy. Been putting in as much BIC time as I can between school work. It's been nothing but studying and 3Y0J the past few days ;D
Am I reading the chatter on here right? Is anyone expressing their intentions to call 3Y0J again after already working them? And just for the mode? It's already been pointed out several times that they are asking not to call them again if you're sure you have a QSO.
"We're spending a king's ransom to go to a really inaccessible place to set up a radio station on the wrong side of a mountain for a large part of the world to operate essentially QRP into makeshift antennas, so even if you can hear us please don't call.
Well, maybe that was the real 3Y0J on FT8, just using MSHV for some reason. They sent "QSY CW" and then immediately showed up on 10115 sounding exactly like they have the past few nights. And just as expected, they are starting to fade out now at 0720z.
I tried working them on both FT8 and CW, but still no joy. Been putting in as much BIC time as I can between school work. It's been nothing but studying and 3Y0J the past few days ;D
Depends on how you define ATNO
For this one I personally think that 3 x QSO's is acceptable
1 x CW 1 x SSB and 1 x Digi As it is a ATNO on each of those modes,
Some people think ATNO means 1 QSO and some people think the a bandmode slot is a ATNO and they will chase each slot like a new one,
Either way listening to the pile up's almost no one is listening and it is a feeding frenzy so WFWL as they say,
With the absence of a log they will never be able to control dupes and insurance QSO's
It’s common courtesy.
...it's getting on here and talking about intentions of doing it. That's sorta like publicly thumbing your nose at the DXpedition's request.
It’s common courtesy.
No it's not. It's misplaced altruism. It's about a certain contingent of ops wanting less competition. It's what happens when someone can't or doesn't prepare themselves to work the tough ones. Like having a General class license and not being unable to call in the Extra sub-bands (for example). Or not assembling an adequate station to pursue the goals to which one claims to aspire. There will always be those that just can't get through, no matter how you stack the deck to give them an unfair advantage. You're buying into the false premise that there's only a certain amount of Q's to be had, so we have to reserve a certain quota for the inept and inadequately prepared.
If you wanna be pissed at someone over lack of "common courtesy," choose the DQRMers. They're the ones that are denying ops of QSOs.
Well, maybe that was the real 3Y0J on FT8, just using MSHV for some reason. They sent "QSY CW" and then immediately showed up on 10115 sounding exactly like they have the past few nights. And just as expected, they are starting to fade out now at 0720z.
I tried working them on both FT8 and CW, but still no joy. Been putting in as much BIC time as I can between school work. It's been nothing but studying and 3Y0J the past few days ;D
I admire your passion for this hobby... you remind me of myself when I started HAMing back in the late 80's. HAM radio needs more young blood like you. Keep it up.
73 Dragan K0AP
Or not assembling an adequate station to pursue the goals to which one claims to aspire.
But (working them on) a new band or mode? Whoever heard of a DXpediton saying that was out of bounds?
But (working them on) a new band or mode? Whoever heard of a DXpediton saying that was out of bounds?
I have. They just said it.
Paul
Depends on how you define ATNO
For this one I personally think that 3 x QSO's is acceptable
1 x CW 1 x SSB and 1 x Digi As it is a ATNO on each of those modes,
Some people think ATNO means 1 QSO and some people think the a bandmode slot is a ATNO and they will chase each slot like a new one,
Either way listening to the pile up's almost no one is listening and it is a feeding frenzy so WFWL as they say,
With the absence of a log they will never be able to control dupes and insurance QSO's
ATNO doesn’t mean all time new ones. It’s singular.
Regardless, many people are having difficulty working it even once so those of us who have worked Bouvet on any mode/band should have some consideration for those who have not. It’s common courtesy.
"If your on the West coast consider yourself lucky because you got a chance at LP with these guys but for the rest of us on the east coast it's a nightmare."
Log upload: It seems that they have extra team members on the boat, extra radios, and a /MM antenna. Plus at night they don't operate on the high bands. It seems that they could upload logs by sending them to the boat at night using RTTY.
Tor N4OGW
Nobody stepped aside. Nobody dropped the 20 WPM code requirement for Extra. Nobody made a day's travel to an FCC office easy when you're 12.
All those hours of listening and calling, calling, calling amounted to a bunch of frustration & background noise. I remember it oh so well. 51 years worth of it to get to #337. "Life" got in the way of radio several times during those 51 years, sometimes for a decade and more.
And now after years of building a station, thousands of dollars that could have been used on strippers and cocaine instead of radios, beams and towers, you want folks like me to step aside?
17 Meter LP signal was good this morning. "Take the Shot".
NØUN
17 Meter LP signal was good this morning. "Take the Shot".
NØUN
17m LP generally or 3Y0J specifically?
You do realize that THEY are the ones with the 3Y0J QSL cards, right? Not sure I would piss them off.
LP but not if your on the East coast.
You do realize that THEY are the ones with the 3Y0J QSL cards, right? Not sure I would piss them off.
Not sure playing stupid games with conformations wouldn't piss the ARRL off too. And then there's the funding for the next one.
Sorry you haven't worked 'em, Paul. Not my fault really. DQRM and all that, you know?
And I have worked them already; I am done.
Nobody stepped aside. Nobody dropped the 20 WPM code requirement for Extra. Nobody made a day's travel to an FCC office easy when you're 12.
All those hours of listening and calling, calling, calling amounted to a bunch of frustration & background noise. I remember it oh so well. 51 years worth of it to get to #337. "Life" got in the way of radio several times during those 51 years, sometimes for a decade and more.
And now after years of building a station, thousands of dollars that could have been used on strippers and cocaine instead of radios, beams and towers, you want folks like me to step aside?
They didn't? Well those meanies.
Nobody considers that some of the rest of us have paid dues too. I wonder how many of the "Give us a chance you big meanie" guys have spent hours precariously hanging off big assed towers installing Yagis or quads or slopers...in order to use them. I've done that for many others too, for free, for guys who can't...or just won't. Or slaved away at some brain-dead job in order to afford that amp to warm the shack. Don't you dare call me selfish. You play the hand your dealt and make your own luck.Quote17 Meter LP signal was good this morning. "Take the Shot".
NØUN
17m LP generally or 3Y0J specifically?
51 years worth of it to get to #337. "Life" got in the way of radio several times during those 51 years, sometimes for a decade and more.Life's too short for QRP and life's too short for crappy antennas. But you got here, and you did it with far less than most of us, so huzzah.
And now after years of building a station, thousands of dollars that could have been used on strippers and cocaine instead of radios, beams and towersI think I'm now going to refer to stations like yours as H&B-class stations.
So now the latest wrinkle. They are supposedly operating FT8 on 17m as of this afternoon (Thursday, Feb. 9th). Same as last night, two streams, F/H on the wrong time slot. They are not audible to me on either short or long path. They're using 18.112 and there are a ton of North American stations calling them, But here's the problem. The US and Canada do not have data privileges above 18.110! ITU Region 1 does allow data on that frequency, so this was likely a conscious decision to target EU.
If the NA stations work 3Y0J outside their privileges on 17 meters how will that affect DXCC? You only need to put in the band in LOTW.If you're fine with violating FCC regulations then please go right ahead. Same with the big guns who were very obviously running 1500W (or more) on 30m. But if you're putting your callsign out there operating out of band in a mode where every single transmission is in everybody's ALL.TXT file, it's there for the whole world to see that you couldn't care less about FCC regs.
And then there was this:
Recording (https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/3Y0J-17M-LP.mp3)
Quote17 Meter LP signal was good this morning. "Take the Shot".
NØUNQuote17m LP generally or 3Y0J specifically?
LP but not if your on the East coast.
And then there was this:
Recording (https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/3Y0J-17M-LP.mp3)
Can't get much clearer than that. Congrats.
Is your filter like 100Hz?
And then there was this:
Recording (https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/3Y0J-17M-LP.mp3)
Can't get much clearer than that. Congrats.
Is your filter like 100Hz?
Thanks. 250Hz for that Q. FTDX101MP.
NØUN
Tone is more difficult to convey on this "social" media than it used to be on the printed page. Lots of people don't do irony these days, and sarcasm can often become invisible to people less likely to understand attitudes because they're often just scrolling around looking to pick fights or display their political or moral superiority at the first hint of difference.
Jamie O'Neill
When (if?) ClubLog stats are available the DX pigs won't be able to hide.
Maybe we should create a special award for them? The DX Piggy.
Quote from: WB9LUR link=topic=138002.msg1286384#msg1286384When (if?) ClubLog stats are available the DX pigs won't be able to hide.
Maybe we should create a special award for them? The DX Piggy.
It's already in the works.
And then there was this:
Recording (https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/3Y0J-17M-LP.mp3)
Can't get much clearer than that. Congrats.
Is your filter like 100Hz?
Thanks. 250Hz for that Q. FTDX101MP.
NØUN
Congrats??!!?? That's his second band! OMG, fall on my sword! Call the QSO cops!
PS: Lumpy, sounds great, sounds real too. :D I confess, I am remiss. I didn't listen LP this morning. Had the beam SP and heard nada. Prolly a little early too. QSYed to 10m and worked some nice stuff there. May renege on my promise, jus' so you can't have all the bragging rights.
What beam heading? Over JA or skew path to the SW?
I knew there would most probably be no way I would hear them through the mountain, especially with low power, so I have everything favoring (and pointed) to the longpath. I don't even try to listen short path on any beam. Of course the vertical is just what it is.I too feared that the topography of the island would make short path all but impossible, but all the times I have been able to copy them, it has been via short path. While I do not have rotatable antennas, I do know that 30m long path to Bouvet is not possible at 06z (at least from my setup). Might be worth swinging your beams around to check on occasion!
NØUN
Absolutely, this young man has the drive and potential to reach is goals with ham radio. I remember when he was first contemplating CW. He wasn't sure about giving it a try. He did, and then took off like a rocket. Wouldn't be surprised if he shows up on major DXpeditons one day, he's already been on some already.I appreciate the kind words! Although I must say that contrary to what some might think, I really am not all that good of a CW op. Making a quick QSO where I just need to copy my call and a few other CW "phrases" is ok, but beyond that, I still have a long ways to go. One of these days when I have some time, I need to buckle down and focus on getting fully proficient.
Hey Pete,
If the NA stations work 3Y0J outside their privileges on 17 meters how will that affect DXCC? You only need to put in the band in LOTW.
73 Rich KB8GAE
I knew there would most probably be no way I would hear them through the mountain, especially with low power, so I have everything favoring (and pointed) to the longpath. I don't even try to listen short path on any beam. Of course the vertical is just what it is.I too feared that the topography of the island would make short path all but impossible, but all the times I have been able to copy them, it has been via short path. While I do not have rotatable antennas, I do know that 30m long path to Bouvet is not possible at 06z (at least from my setup). Might be worth swinging your beams around to check on occasion!
NØUN
I appreciate the kind words! Although I must say that contrary to what some might think, I really am not all that good of a CW op. Making a quick QSO where I just need to copy my call and a few other CW "phrases" is ok, but beyond that, I still have a long ways to go. One of these days when I have some time, I need to buckle down and focus on getting fully proficient.
The band plan on the RAC web site (https://www.rac.ca/rac-0-30-mhz-band-plan/) for the 17m band shows the 18.110-18.168 MHz segment as Phone, but that is the primary mode, not the only allowed mode. Industry Canada allows us (https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/spectrum-management-telecommunications/en/licences-and-certificates/regulations-reference-rbr/rbr-4-standards-operation-radio-stations-amateur-radio-service#t1) to use any mode with the bandwidth up to 6 kHz in that segment.
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
The 3Y0J Team is approaching the 7,000 QSO mark and continues to operate through the ongoing storm. They had a good night sleep. Last night 30m FT8 received great signals from JA and NA West coast. Unfortunately, some callers were not using Fox/Hound. Their QSOs were not logged. As stated previously, please remember that on FT8 mode 3Y0J will always be Fox/Hound. The weather in Bouvet was sunny skies and winds around 40 knots. We will continue to operate weather permitting. The 3Y0J Team wishes to thank the Amateur Radio community for their support.
73,
Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition
Imagine if one radio was constantly on 20M 24/7...sigh....
Ed N1UR
Its a shame that after 10 days since arriving, "approaching 7,000 Qs" is the milestone. 9 team members on island. They can't be too happy with the result. Imagine if one radio was constantly on 20M 24/7...sigh....Where did anyone say 7000 was a milestone? It’s simply the total thus far.
Ed N1UR
Last night 30m FT8 received great signals from JA and NA West coast. Unfortunately, some callers were not using Fox/Hound.
Its a shame that after 10 days since arriving, "approaching 7,000 Qs" is the milestone. 9 team members on island. They can't be too happy with the result. Imagine if one radio was constantly on 20M 24/7...sigh....
Ed N1UR
why 8 team members don't care if they operate all night long, but there must be a reason. Hope we learn what it is some day.
Yeah, it does look like the bad guys finally figured it out. Or, cared enough to persist.
Of course, if the expedition was able to do nightly uploads, the sickos might get discouraged as they heretofore have -- on any mode.
The combination of low power and no uploads probably gives them a new kind of thrill. Up to now, they have seemed to avoid FT8 because nobody heard them (no ego strokes) and nobody cared. At least, that's what I've concluded. There was, after all, no reason they couldn't have done this from day one on FT8 F&H. They just never cared to do so before.
I expect in an expedition with three or four stations and a KW each, they probably give up just as they always do.
I've long thought their main pleasure was the sound of their own voice -- or paddle -- annoying folks.
But it looks like at least some of them have found a new, sick game. Be interesting to see if that continues for less dire expeditions.
Yes, but people bring it on themselves. Working 3Y0J as a "fox" transmitting on the ODD time slot when they have said OVER and OVER and OVER again, that they will be operating Fox and Hound ONLY. is just dumb.
Is there a way to force WSJT to transmit on the even cycle even when in F/H?
All,
It appears that 3Y0J absolutely requires that we all be in F/H mode in order to get into their log.
Problem is they are TXing on the ODD cycle which WSJT-X F/H doesn’t support (i.e., they are obviously not using WSJT-X). Therefore if you are using WSJT-X here is what you need to do:
#1) In the Settings menu under the General tab, make sure “Allow Tx frequency changes while transmitting is checked.
#2) Stay in standard mode (i.e, NOT F/H mode)
#3) If you are decoding 3Y0J and they are TXing on the ODD cycle, then set your TX to transmit on the EVEN cycle.
#4) If you are reliably RXing them, start calling them well above 1000Hz.
#5) If you get called, you will need to immediately move your TX frequency to ANY FREQ BELOW 1000Hz, and then send your R-XX signal report. If they send you the RR73, no need to send 73. If you don’t get your RR73 after 4 tries, start over.
Tonight I was seeing individuals working 3Y0J in standard mode (i.e, not moving their TX frequency down) and receiving a RR73 from 3Y0J. These individuals are likely under the impression that they will be in the log. I am hearing that if the F/H procedure is not followed, it is most likely they will not be in the log. This is why the pilots are all telling us we must be in F/H mode in order to get into the log.
GL & 73,
-rob N7QT
They aren't using WSJT-X. If they were, they would be on even, because for WSJT-X, there's no option to do it any other way in F&H.Why? Are the looking for MORE problems than they already have? It seems they are using JTDX, and flipping F/H around. Again, why? Thanks for Rob's tips to manually force WSJTx to the reverse cycle.
They're using one of the others.
They aren't using WSJT-X. If they were, they would be on even, because for WSJT-X, there's no option to do it any other way in F&H.
They're using one of the others.QuoteWhy? Are the looking for MORE problems than they already have?
Exactly my point, Luke. Do they perceive some advantage to doing this? Why not transmit on the even cycle and accommodate everyone regardless of what software the hound may be using?
Really weird "big endian" FH setup they're running, but I'm grateful to finally be able to hear them.
Saw several familiar callsigns from here getting through; congrats to all of you.
Back to the hunt.
They aren't using WSJT-X. If they were, they would be on even, because for WSJT-X, there's no option to do it any other way in F&H.
They're using one of the others.QuoteWhy? Are the looking for MORE problems than they already have?
Exactly my point, Luke. Do they perceive some advantage to doing this? Why not transmit on the odd cycle and accommodate everyone regardless of what software the hound may be using.
Is it possible they are doing this to limit the size of the pileup? 3Y5X would CQ listening up but only be working stations down.
73 Rich KB8GAE
Is it possible they are doing this to limit the size of the pileup? 3Y5X would CQ listening up but only be working stations down.
73 Rich KB8GAE
3Y0J 0612Z 14105.0 five streams. S9+30 LOL VK9DX
I saw that, too.
I decoded them ,was pointed at Asia at the time.
Very strong all things considered. Are they really one 20? WFWL.
Ridiculously strong.
062430 8 0.4 293 ~ UT5UDX RR73; UT2XQ <3Y0J> -16
062430 16 0.6 2703 ~ 3Y0J UA6A KN95
062430 10 0.4 353 ~ JP3TIG 3Y0J -12
Is it possible they are doing this to limit the size of the pileup?
Is the signal coming from the correct direction?Reportedly. I didn't turn my beam off 202 degrees, Short Path to Bouvet, and they were ridiculously strong.
Marvin VE3VEE
This is monkey business. If you gotta jump through hoops to call even on F/H, someone should tell the East Coast pilot... 065945 15 0.2 1644 ~ 3Y0J N2AJ FN30
Last night I had a clear copy and maybe could have worked them but they were TX-ing on ODD... so, based on the instructions from the pilot I thought it was a Pirate and did not try to call.
Peter and Randy I saw both of your contacts and they were good, if he was the real deal.
Based on the pattern used the last 2 or 3 nights it appears legit.
Congrats to both of you
73
David KE4YD
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo
At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU 3Y0J UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.
00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.
01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes belowSounds like a solid QSO to me Randy. Signals quite strong there in Florida. Here in the black hole of the Midwest he was much weaker last night than the night before (around the same time ~07:00 UTC).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo
At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU 3Y0J UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.
00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.
01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station
Congratulations Randy! You can almost hear my call at the end of that recording!
Congratulations Randy! You can almost hear my call at the end of that recording!
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes belowSounds like a solid QSO to me Randy. Signals quite strong there in Florida. Here in the black hole of the Midwest he was much weaker last night than the night before (around the same time ~07:00 UTC).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo
At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU 3Y0J UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.
00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.
01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station
Congrats on making the QSO!
73 de Chuck NI0C
...I DID do a lot of work to my vertical to prepare for this (added 30m, put down lots more radials etc.) but it's probably not enough for the path I have....
I appreciate the kind words! Although I must say that contrary to what some might think, I really am not all that good of a CW op. Making a quick QSO where I just need to copy my call and a few other CW "phrases" is ok, but beyond that, I still have a long ways to go. One of these days when I have some time, I need to buckle down and focus on getting fully proficient.
I have accepted the fact that I probably won't work this one, and that's on me. I DID do a lot of work to my vertical to prepare for this...
I have accepted the fact that I probably won't work this one, and that's on me. I DID do a lot of work to my vertical to prepare for this...
Can you throw up a temporary 30M dipole pointed at them. ANYTHING, even up 20 feet. And take it down at midnight if you have to. I couldn't hear them at ALL on 30M my 100' long doublet up 40' (they were in a null on 30M); then I threw up a temporary dipole pointed right at em and got them easily the second day. Here in MD my window for good copy was about 5:00-6:30pm on 30M, then they were pretty weak.
Don't give up and you can't just do the same thing over and over and over... You have to change SOMETHING. Try something different; go to a park and throw up dipole if you have to. The a$$holes running 1 KW on 30M already have their QSO so regular LP guys still have a chance with a DECENT antenna. And most guys don't have yagis for 30M.
Paul
I have accepted the fact that I probably won't work this one, and that's on me. I DID do a lot of work to my vertical to prepare for this...
Can you throw up a temporary 30M dipole pointed at them. ANYTHING, even up 20 feet. And take it down at midnight if you have to. I couldn't hear them at ALL on 30M my 100' long doublet up 40' (they were in a null on 30M); then I threw up a temporary dipole pointed right at em and got them easily the second day. Here in MD my window for good copy was about 5:00-6:30pm on 30M, then they were pretty weak.
Don't give up and you can't just do the same thing over and over and over... You have to change SOMETHING. Try something different; go to a park and throw up dipole if you have to. The a$$holes running 1 KW on 30M already have their QSO so regular LP guys still have a chance with a DECENT antenna. And most guys don't have yagis for 30M.
Paul
I too normally run a 100 foot doublet and it wasn't cutting it. I tossed up a 30m delta loop and even whipped up a 4:1 balun out of stuff i had laying around. Do whatever you can do to try something differnt to get them in the log! When i used to live in an apartment with an attic dipole I sometimes had to drive up to the top of a hill to setup a dipole to hear a dxpedition. Keep trying different things! Never give up!
Maybe I missed it, but haven't seen anything about operating 20M, either CW or SSB. Perhaps no suitable antenna?They have the antennas, however, I assume they haven’t yet operated on 20M because the deliberate QRM would be worse there than it is on the other bands.
I have accepted the fact that I probably won't work this one, and that's on me. I DID do a lot of work to my vertical to prepare for this...
Can you throw up a temporary 30M dipole pointed at them. ANYTHING, even up 20 feet. And take it down at midnight if you have to. I couldn't hear them at ALL on 30M my 100' long doublet up 40' (they were in a null on 30M); then I threw up a temporary dipole pointed right at em and got them easily the second day. Here in MD my window for good copy was about 5:00-6:30pm on 30M, then they were pretty weak.
Don't give up and you can't just do the same thing over and over and over... You have to change SOMETHING. Try something different; go to a park and throw up dipole if you have to. The a$$holes running 1 KW on 30M already have their QSO so regular LP guys still have a chance with a DECENT antenna. And most guys don't have yagis for 30M.
Paul
I too normally run a 100 foot doublet and it wasn't cutting it. I tossed up a 30m delta loop and even whipped up a 4:1 balun out of stuff i had laying around. Do whatever you can do to try something differnt to get them in the log! When i used to live in an apartment with an attic dipole I sometimes had to drive up to the top of a hill to setup a dipole to hear a dxpedition. Keep trying different things! Never give up!
Thanks for the inspiration, I should be able to temporarily pull down a 160M doublet and get a 30M Delta loop up facing roughly the right direction. Have 1:1, 2:1 and 4:1 baluns available also.
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo
At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU 3Y0J UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.
00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.
01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station
So the whole are they legitimate or aren't they for the odd time streams continues, with more questions than answers. Communiqués from the island insist that they are transmitting on evens in genuine F/H mode, using the real, original-recipe WSJT-X software. Either that statement is incorrect, or else the power from the split streams is so low that no signals are making it to North America and all we're seeing is a pirate. In monitoring 30m FT8 last night and the night before, not a single print of 3Y0J was ever copied by my station on the even timeslot. Not one. I'm using an Elecraft K3s and a rotatable dipole at roughly 70' that admittedly is not ideal, but certainly good enough to have provided 322 confirmed on 30m.
Furthermore, the signal on the odd stream disappears when I rotate my dipole to Europe or due north-south. Southeast/northwest is the only heading where the odd stream prints, and there is not much land southeast of me. So it's either someone pirating in the pacific northwest, western Canada, or southern Africa, or else it's really them on odds. That's the best I can figure.
My understanding, which granted may be incomplete, is that there are only four programs that can send FT8 at the moment. WSJT-X, and WSJT-Z cannot operate F/H mode in the opposite time slots. JTDX can reply to either slot in Hound mode, but doesn't have a Fox mode for sending; MSHV can operate on either slot, but the team is adamant that that's not the software they're using. Is there another app behind Door Number Three that's missing from that small list? I guess until the first log upload nobody will know for certain.
Agree. Which is why its almost offensive to be asking the DX community to not work them again if "you are pretty sure you have a QSO". WITH WHO? And while it not the fault of the DXpedition that there are pirates and DQRM, we all know that if there were 2 stations on, 24/7 on 40 - 10 and they were using their pilots better (there are pilots right?), there would be a lot less confusion going on right now.
Accepting the modification and scale down for sure. Hats off to them for getting on at all. But not accepting the 1 radio at night and band selection and lack of the pilots adding any value. For a $750,000 DXpedition, its just shameful.
Ed N1UR
Now today I actually worked them on 21.105 FT8 or I worked someone. They were on even, I was properly an odd foxThanks to a friend, I was told they were loud in the western US on 15, and I got them from RHR Tacoma beaming 250°, along the terminator. Got a +3, if I recall, but I didn't take a screen shot; I wanted to get off quick and stop the meter :D . They were definitely on evens and I was working F/H mode.
I'm listening on 21.105 right now near Seattle, and I hear a pretty loud 3Y0J CQing over and over on evens, with many callers on odds. Don't see any Qs going through. Either 3Y is deaf or this particular 3Y is just having some fun.If you're on RHR Tacoma you came in right after me--I wanted to log back in and take a screenshot but someone else grabbed the slot!
I'm listening on 21.105 right now near Seattle, and I hear a pretty loud 3Y0J CQing over and over on evens, with many callers on odds. Don't see any Qs going through. Either 3Y is deaf or this particular 3Y is just having some fun.If you're on RHR Tacoma you came in right after me--I wanted to log back in and take a screenshot but someone else grabbed the slot!
I'm listening on 21.105 right now near Seattle, and I hear a pretty loud 3Y0J CQing over and over on evens, with many callers on odds. Don't see any Qs going through. Either 3Y is deaf or this particular 3Y is just having some fun.If you're on RHR Tacoma you came in right after me--I wanted to log back in and take a screenshot but someone else grabbed the slot!
Nope, but my QTH is just a few miles away. I'm sure whoever is using that station is hearing the exact same thing, but better.
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo
At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU 3Y0J UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.
00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.
01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station
I'd try and work them again if that was my QSO. I never heard your full call.
I hope you're in the log.
To me it sounds like they got it but who knows? At this point - might even be a pirate - nobody knows for sure. I think I've gotten spoiled with near real time log uploads.
You are a -2 here in MA. I'm beaming LP so beam is close to you. No copy on SP or LP.
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo
At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU 3Y0J UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.
00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.
01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station
I'd try and work them again if that was my QSO. I never heard your full call.
I hope you're in the log.
"I'd try and work them again if that was my QSO. I never heard your full call.
I hope you're in the log."
To me it sounds like they got it but who knows? At this point - might even be a pirate - nobody knows for sure. I think I've gotten spoiled with near real time log uploads.
Randy / WB9LUR
Nope, but my QTH is just a few miles away. I'm sure whoever is using that station is hearing the exact same thing, but better.They were +8 to me and I was +2 on their end. Can't complain about that.
So did a physical fight actually break out on the Island?What on EARTH would possess you to post something like that?!?! Seriously. Whisky Tango Actual Foxtrot?
I can imagine the stress is high but this would be a whole new level of crazy.
So did a physical fight actually break out on the Island?
I can imagine the stress is high but this would be a whole new level of crazy.
What??
So did a physical fight actually break out on the Island?
I can imagine the stress is high but this would be a whole new level of crazy.
To add more fuel, I'm on 15m FT8 at the moment out of RHR Tacoma and they ARE on the correct time slot for F&H. Curiouser and Curiouser. No joy working them, but they are definitely VERY VERY LOUD and on evens as of 1850z Friday.
Yes it's kind of weirdly surprising that no one on here had heard a thing, even when it's gone from inner circle to outer.So did a physical fight actually break out on the Island?
I can imagine the stress is high but this would be a whole new level of crazy.
Perhaps best to let them work it out - nothing can be done around this forum anyway.
NØUN
So did a physical fight actually break out on the Island?Yes it's kind of weird surprising that no one on here had heard a thing, even when it's gone from inner circle to out there.
I can imagine the stress is high but this would be a whole new level of crazy.
Perhaps best to let them work it out - nothing can be done around this forum anyway.
NØUN
To add more fuel, I'm on 15m FT8 at the moment out of RHR Tacoma and they ARE on the correct time slot for F&H. Curiouser and Curiouser. No joy working them, but they are definitely VERY VERY LOUD and on evens as of 1850z Friday.
Hope it was them, got a "RR73" at 1705z from someone signing 3Y0J.
Maybe the logs will go up this weekend and clear the air.
Maybe the logs will go up this weekend and clear the air.
What is next? Two teams brawling?
What??Sounds crazy to me but that is what I am hearing from other Hams.
Just wanted to know if it was true or false.
What??Sounds crazy to me but that is what I am hearing from other Hams.
Just wanted to know if it was true or false.
What is the point of even suggesting such a story, especially on a public forum? We as DXers want to be able to go back to places like Bouvet. Stories of that nature are not how you win over recalcitrant bureaucrats in charge of landing permits! Unless they ran out of food and went full Donner Party on someone, I suggest that the best policy is "what happens on Bouvet stays on Bouvet."
This just popped up on Twitter and may explain the FT8 time slot issue:
https://twitter.com/je2ehp/status/1623869952821440514 (https://twitter.com/je2ehp/status/1623869952821440514)
So the OP doesn't know he's transmitting on odd. That's a new one.Nonsense. They have been told.
I think everyone has decided to ignore the advice not to work them again
Have you ever seen such drama and weird stuff going on as the Dxpedition? I haven't.
Ed N1UR
Why blame somebody for making a post? If true, members of the team let the story get off the island. Blame the team. It's a legitmate post if this is circling wide and far.Posting a story like that is the exact opposite of Ham Spirit and adds nothing to the story of the 2023 3Y0J DXpedition. As one who believes in praising publicly and chastising privately, seeing this posted (even if it were to be true) really has no place on a public forum. Just my personal opinion, of course, YMMV, void where prohibited by law, and objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear.
I just worked 3Y0J, real or not, on 14.025, up 2.I heard him work you I believe. Weak but readable here but went QRT after a few minutes.
Marvin VE3VEE
So the OP doesn't know he's transmitting on odd. That's a new one.
From what I have heard and seen, there seem to be two sorts of DXers: those who openly are working insurance slots, and those who are quietly doing it.
Hello !
I was trying to work them fox/hound on 15m this afternoon, my receive was good but I was locked on the wrong time period. :o
Anyone has a suggestion to solve this please ? :'(
N7QT posted this on the WWDXC reflector, in case it might be of interest:QuoteAll,
It appears that 3Y0J absolutely requires that we all be in F/H mode in order to get into their log.
Problem is they are TXing on the ODD cycle which WSJT-X F/H doesn’t support (i.e., they are obviously not using WSJT-X). Therefore if you are using WSJT-X here is what you need to do:
#1) In the Settings menu under the General tab, make sure “Allow Tx frequency changes while transmitting is checked.
#2) Stay in standard mode (i.e, NOT F/H mode)
#3) If you are decoding 3Y0J and they are TXing on the ODD cycle, then set your TX to transmit on the EVEN cycle.
#4) If you are reliably RXing them, start calling them well above 1000Hz.
#5) If you get called, you will need to immediately move your TX frequency to ANY FREQ BELOW 1000Hz, and then send your R-XX signal report. If they send you the RR73, no need to send 73. If you don’t get your RR73 after 4 tries, start over.
Tonight I was seeing individuals working 3Y0J in standard mode (i.e, not moving their TX frequency down) and receiving a RR73 from 3Y0J. These individuals are likely under the impression that they will be in the log. I am hearing that if the F/H procedure is not followed, it is most likely they will not be in the log. This is why the pilots are all telling us we must be in F/H mode in order to get into the log.
GL & 73,
-rob N7QT
Why blame somebody for making a post? If true, members of the team let the story get off the island. Blame the team. It's a legitmate post if this is circling wide and far.Posting a story like that is the exact opposite of Ham Spirit and adds nothing to the story of the 2023 3Y0J DXpedition. As one who believes in praising publicly and chastising privately, seeing this posted (even if it were to be true) really has no place on a public forum. Just my personal opinion, of course, YMMV, void where prohibited by law, and objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear.
Yes, he didn't spend more than 10 minutes there. That's one of the reasons I suspect he was a pirate. Also, we don't really know if they indeed have a 20m antenna.For the life of me I cannot figure out why they are not working 20m!
Marvin VE3VEE
Why blame somebody for making a post? If true, members of the team let the story get off the island. Blame the team. It's a legitmate post if this is circling wide and far.Posting a story like that is the exact opposite of Ham Spirit and adds nothing to the story of the 2023 3Y0J DXpedition. As one who believes in praising publicly and chastising privately, seeing this posted (even if it were to be true) really has no place on a public forum. Just my personal opinion, of course, YMMV, void where prohibited by law, and objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear.
Here is what 3Y0J (or a pirate) sounded like at my QTH on 20m CW. Not very strong, but the "3Y0J" came through clear as day: https://youtu.be/4uTPaCJkWjs
Here is what 3Y0J (or a pirate) sounded like at my QTH on 20m CW. Not very strong, but the "3Y0J" came through clear as day: https://youtu.be/4uTPaCJkWjs
Yes, he didn't spend more than 10 minutes there. That's one of the reasons I suspect he was a pirate. Also, we don't really know if they indeed have a 20m antenna.For the life of me I cannot figure out why they are not working 20m!
Marvin VE3VEE
I see people constantly spotting them on 20m and it's always deception or a Slim.
For the life of me I cannot figure out why they are not working 20m!.
Here is what 3Y0J (or a pirate) sounded like at my QTH on 20m CW. Not very strong, but the "3Y0J" came through clear as day: https://youtu.be/4uTPaCJkWjs
I put my vote in the real bucket. Sounded legit.
I feel terrible for the team members who dropped their hard earned $25,000 to go DXing from Bouvet but have yet to even step off the boat. It's gotta be very, very frustrating. (understatement of the year)
I feel terrible for the team members who dropped their hard earned $25,000 to go DXing from Bouvet but have yet to even step off the boat. It's gotta be very, very frustrating. (understatement of the year)Man I feel it for them.
Nobody ever caught on to the tip I gave.
When you saw a NP4G spot (without the -@ so no spoofed callsign, he was logged in), you do understand that was Team Member Otis on the ship (with Internet) trying to help everybody out, right?
If Otis spotted 3Y0J on 18.120, or 14.105, 3Y0J was there, guaranteed.
NØUN
How much gas for the Honda generator is ashore?
Sunrise 30 minutes ago (0330Z), and wind gusts greater than 40 MPH projected ALL DAY, I hope they are safe, secure and healthy.
From watching videos, I can't imagine there will be any travel back & forth to the Marama today...
NØUN
KO8SCA's Garmin is still tracking them at their camp.
There's an obvious radio/information blackout going on - no updates & the rumor mill is cranked up. Hope we hear something, anything really.
(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/adrian-tracker.png)
NØUN
KO8SCA's Garmin is still tracking them at their camp.
There's an obvious radio/information blackout going on - no updates & the rumor mill is cranked up. Hope we hear something, anything really.
(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/adrian-tracker.png)
NØUN
They are back on the air as of 0713z on 20m FT8 and 30m CW... both are confirmed to be legit. No copy on 20m FT8 and 30m CW is all but closed here sadly.
Nobody ever caught on to the tip I gave.
When you saw a NP4G spot (without the -@ so no spoofed callsign, he was logged in), you do understand that was Team Member Otis on the ship (with Internet) trying to help everybody out, right?
If Otis spotted 3Y0J on 18.120, or 14.105, 3Y0J was there, guaranteed.
NØUN
Unfortunately, this FT8 garbage is making it far harder than necessary to make a QSO. He is quite strong here, but because of the phase distortion from the polar path, it is only occasionally decoding.
Wayne, now I understand exactly what you meant! Thanks!!!
NP4G 14105.0 3Y0J 07:20 11 Feb F/H alway TX even Bouvet
I made my QSO with 3Y0J one hour later (a half an hour ago). This 14.105 activity this morning did sound legit.
Marvin VE3VEE
20m is the one band every one has an antenna for thats why they are reducing the number of callers does a tune work marvin for 17m to get then in the log.
3Y0J Bouvet Island Frequency Announcement
11 FEB 2023 11:45 UTC
All good. Generator fixed. Easier to do when it is light. QRV now.
FT8 14.105 MHz
CW 10.120 MHz
I am not “100% sure” of my contact; I am 99% sure but would appreciate like the opportunity to work them “again” if necessary before they QRT for real.
Seriously - we have to monitoring pilots' personal facebook pages to get word of what's going on?
Serious slap in the face constantly of the supposed Media guy.
Ed N1UR
Sounds like the astronaut who circled the moon while the other two got the thrill (and fame) by walking on it.
If one were needing this for a new one, good luck. either move to the east coast or something as no signals here and only FT8 it seems.
Sounds like the astronaut who circled the moon while the other two got the thrill (and fame) by walking on it.
Because if offered a chance to be the command module pilot for one of the greatest feats of all mankind or watch it from the ground, which would you choose?
If you don't know the history, all three got fame. All three were recognized for their contributions to the flight. All three were picked by NASA because they were experts in their fields of study, the ability to work with each other, and the trust that they each provided. Armstrong and Aldrin have always said that they were glad that Collins was with them.
Collins' hand calculations of the trajectories of each orbit as well as the RTE were within 0.1 degree of what the ground computers had calculated (based on where they actually were and where they needed to point the CM back to earth).
If one were needing this for a new one, good luck. either move to the east coast or something as no signals here and only FT8 it seems.
Because if offered a chance to be the command module pilot for one of the greatest feats of all mankind or watch it from the ground, which would you choose?
If you don't know the history, all three got fame. All three were recognized for their contributions to the flight. All three were picked by NASA because they were experts in their fields of study, the ability to work with each other, and the trust that they each provided. Armstrong and Aldrin have always said that they were glad that Collins was with them.
Adrian just worked himself ;D
162630 -14 -0.1 278 ~ KO8SCA 3Y0J RR73
Have never seen anything quite this intense - almost like somebody is waging a personal vendetta against this activation.
3Y0J is 579 into MA on 10.1201 right now. I'm pretty sure I worked him but it was only my second call and I wasn't expecting a call so fast. I should've sent my call again. Oh, well, first time I even heard them ( if it's real) so now I wait for a log, or use FT8.The DXPedition Facebook page says this is 3Y7THA.
3Y0J is 579 into MA on 10.1201 right now. I'm pretty sure I worked him but it was only my second call and I wasn't expecting a call so fast. I should've sent my call again. Oh, well, first time I even heard them ( if it's real) so now I wait for a log, or use FT8.The DXPedition Facebook page says this is 3Y7THA.
I have no idea why the different call.... This is the first time they are workable here too but I can't verify the call due to all the jammers and lids.
Good signal on 30m CW here, but with insane DQRM. It looks like they just went QRT unfortunately. Still on the hunt.
@W2IRT they sent you 3 x reports were you not in hound mode??I had called them a bunch of times but they were no longer decoding. I went off to enjoy my victory cigar for a bit. When I got back I saw them call two other stations, threw in my call and they came back to me. Got my RR73, and have not decoded them once since then. Was it real??
They are back now but the QRM is still the likes of which I have never heard... even during this DXpedition :o
@W2IRT they sent you 3 x reports were you not in hound mode??I had called them a bunch of times but they were no longer decoding. I went off to enjoy my victory cigar for a bit. When I got back I saw them call two other stations, threw in my call and they came back to me. Got my RR73, and have not decoded them once since then. Was it real??
W2IRT wrote about "Ham Spirit". Listen to the zoo on 30 cw and tell me again about Ham Spirit. If there ever was any it has gone extinct.
Chris NU1O
They are back now but the QRM is still the likes of which I have never heard... even during this DXpedition :oW2IRT wrote about "Ham Spirit". Listen to the zoo on 30 cw and tell me again about Ham Spirit. If there ever was any it has gone extinct.
Didn't see your RR73 and I hope it was real, heading was spot on and they came up and faded away as per what we would normally see, but you never can tell.If they sent me an RR73 message around 19 or 20z then I was away and wouldn't have seen it. The one I got was around 2145z, and I saw both messages (one on each frequency slot).
If they sent me an RR73 message around 19 or 20z then I was away and wouldn't have seen it. The one I got was around 2145z, and I saw both messages (one on each frequency slot).
"they appear to be intentionally reducing the number of callers until they can get more equipment and more operators from Marama to the island through the rough seas and high winds. Operating on 30m instead of 20m, and operating on 17m FT8 above the US frequency allocation for digital modes are both consistent with that strategy."Yes, well operating on 30 m has excluded me from that pileup. There is no propagation path on that band here. Cannot hear them. It seems that Everybody Else is hearing them, or at least calling them on 30 m.
Ah, the old "if we operate where nobody can hear us, the pileups will be more manageable" strategy!
They are back now but the QRM is still the likes of which I have never heard... even during this DXpedition :oW2IRT wrote about "Ham Spirit". Listen to the zoo on 30 cw and tell me again about Ham Spirit. If there ever was any it has gone extinct.
I disagree. The DQRMers obviously don't possess it, but how many of those are on at any given time?
threshold set in WSJTx, and any signals above (I think +3 dB) were not seen. He suggested the chap call him with much lower power and he'd be worked.
Now, that leads me to my observations on the FT8 pileups I'm seeing for 3Y0J. They are supposedly operating more FT8 to allow "the smaller stations" a chance to work them. Is that working? The pileups are a full onThe message went out again that if you have worked them, not to work them again.
The fact remains, that nobody who has worked them knows they have worked 3Y0J.
If they turn up on 20 m CW, I will call them!
On FT8 operations, I have an anecdote to share. On our Norfolk Island DXpedition last year, our FT8 operator told us how a US Ham emailed him to ask why his calls on 10 m FT8 weren't being answered. He was, after all, using 1.5 kW and a 5 el yagi at 100' (or similar such, you get it). Our FT8 operator replied that he had the war, of huge signals, most of which are not decoding (in my station anyway). How are the little guys going to be seen through that?
In addition, what I've been seeing here is a station signing "3Y0J" flipping between even and odd, with much stronger signals (or the one I'm seeing) than I should expect from Bouvet.
I will probably submit OQRS as soon as I see I'm in Their log (whenever they get that uploaded), and turn off the station here. This is no longer fun.
You must have had your fill of ham spirit if this is no longer fun. ;D I wouldn't call this fun, either. It's just plain frustrating.Yes, it's a nice cooler day here today. I'm going to go ride my horse.
73,
Chris NU1O
The message went out again that if you have worked them, not to work them again.
The fact remains, that nobody who has worked them knows they have worked 3Y0J.
If they turn up on 20 m CW, I will call them!
Yeah, I know 20+ years agoI can assure everyone it is not "20 years ago" today!
I am slowly coming to accept that I may not work this one. I spent the last week trying to dig them out on 30 but my low 30M dipole just hasn't cut it. I've managed to hear them on 17 on my hexbeam but the QSB made copy near ESP.
I thought I'd have a shot, heck, I logged Heard, Macquarie, and Crozet and those aren't exactly chip shots from W1.... and 2 of the 3 were running LP. DQRM, pirates, and to an extent where they set up, not to mention being away all weekend for continuing education haven't helped.... I don't know..... (but I'm not throwing in the towel!)
Frank, W1NK
This is extremely reminiscent of the way the Microlite Penguins operated from the rare ones in the Southern Ocean back a bunch of years back. They only had vertical antennas, low power, no Internet and no online logs. When I was still living in Queens I never heard them once from South Georgia and South Sandwich on my 30' high multi-band dipole. But after I moved out to NJ and got my Yagis in the air, I was able to work them fairly easily on Kermadec (ZL8R) in 2006 and again from South Orkney (VP8ORK) in 2011.The message went out again that if you have worked them, not to work them again.It's hard to work them once when there are zero log updates and just sit by the sidelines.. not knowing if you worked a pirate, or the real station.. or if your qso was good. Yeah, I know 20+ years ago you'd work a station and wouldn't know if your qso was good til they got back and you sent for a qsl card.. but these days many / most dxpeditions have the capability to do a daily log upload. I know there are several here on this forum who have worked them on multiple bands and modes. I'm doing my best to resist making an insurance qso - especially when there are many of you who have yet to hear them and work them and are trying hard. The scenario I'd hate to have happen is to assume your QSO was good... the team decides to wrap up instead... and the log upload happens when they're all back on the boat - with your QSO not there. Ample times you could have re-worked them.. but you did as they asked. I've resisted working them again - but with all the pirates and no log uploads it's not easy.
I appreciated what they did,
It's hard to work them once when there are zero log updates and just sit by the sidelines.. not knowing if you worked a pirate, or the real station.. or if your qso was good.
im surprised the couldn't send some packet or wifi back to the boat but i suppose that would involve some planning im pretty sure i have one qso and 2 suspect ones so im relaxing if after a log upload i have none i will be back in the mix
There was a mention of a generator failure last night. Does anyone know approximate time of the failure?
Marvin VE3VEE
I think it is significant that this sort of operation died out. The Martti Lane style seems much preferred and more of them have actually happened.Martti had the right of it. Be loud. Run the pileup, don't let the pileup run you. Publish a plan and stick to it, and then have a backup plan, because you know the first battle plan will never survive first contact with the enemy. Two is one, one is none, etc.
I remember a long ago DXCC annual (when they came out on paper, still) where both groups discussed what they were up to. It was an interesting and frank discussion. But, it is clear now which argument has won the day with DXpeditioners. . .and DXers.
is kind of thing.
What we're seeing now is the Microlite scheme forced by circumstances beyond the expeditioner's control. And, we're seeing the frustration that results.
I was listening to 3Y0J on 14.068 around 0300 UTC and it appears he was not using F/H. I read somewhere they would always be using F/H and non-F/H FT8 QSOs would not be logged. 3Y0J answered some stations who initially transmitted below 1000 Hz. Most of the stations worked who initially transmitted above 1000 Hz sent their report on their original frequency above 1000 Hz. In both cases 3Y0J sent RR73. This appears to be non-F/H and the RR73 implies it was logged.
Seen you get a report on 17m FT8 this even Darrell but didn't see RR's
Seen you get a report on 17m FT8 this even Darrell but didn't see RR's
Hi Trevor, I eventually got the RR73 after several retries: several stations didn't understand F/H and were calling them on their TX freq, so when worked stations QSY'd they weren't being copied. I saw several lost QSOs this way including some Gs and a GW.
Someone asked if they are even using F/H: well not in the traditional sense, because I saw someone call them on their freq and get a reply. F/H requires callers to be +1000. So this was adding to the chaos, as others must have seen this and called them.
Hope you got them Trevor. If not, try calling really high: I had XIT in for the call and was calling +3000Hz, some Gs got picked up as high as +3300Hz.
So I have a Tri-Ex WT-51 laying in my driveway, pointing in a very unhelpful direction.
Log online
https://www.m0oxo.com/oqrs/logsearch.php (https://www.m0oxo.com/oqrs/logsearch.php)
Log online
https://www.m0oxo.com/oqrs/logsearch.php
Log online
https://www.m0oxo.com/oqrs/logsearch.php (https://www.m0oxo.com/oqrs/logsearch.php)
Me thinks there's gonna' be some relieved Hams, but gonna' be a lot of brokenhearted Hams too...
NØUN
A reminder that the last QSO in the log doesn't always mean every QSO in the log.
This is fun. Now we can see who had multiple QSOs even after they asked us to lit to ONE only.
Paul
This is fun. Now we can see who had multiple QSOs even after they asked us to lit to ONE only.apparently, the unique call signs number between 45% and 78% based on which day. Lots of people are vying for the “all about me” award.
Paul
This is fun. Now we can see who had multiple QSOs even after they asked us to lit to ONE only.
Paul
This is fun. Now we can see who had multiple QSOs even after they asked us to lit to ONE only.
Paul
And, those who have duplicate QSOs while complaining relentlessly on eHam for the last week. I already see a few.
Paul, W9AC
Grateful to be good in log - OQRS completed. One 30M QSO.
For those that have dupes now - normal insurance QSO - with all of the pirate activity I was going to make one myself but hadn't had the chance yet. Unless they give the word that it's OK to work more slots now, I will standby and hope that all those yet to get in the log will have a chance.
One tent for sleeping, cooking, operating. No Chairs, sitting on floor. No heat while doing radio in a life threatening climate after risking a challenging voyage in a dangerous ocean. 3Y0J.
Randy / WB9LUR
C O N G R A T S to all of you who are already in the log. I'm still on the hunt. I don't see any 20m QSOs in their log so either I worked a pirate or two, or the log may still be uploaded later.
Marvin VE3VEE
In life there are two types of Hams. Those that do, and those that don't.
$15 confirmation. It is what it is, gotta' pay to play.
In life there are two types of Hams. Those that do, and those that don't.
It's more complex than that. As with anything else in life that involves humans, there's always these types...
ME ME ME...
(https://i.postimg.cc/cH5dxSBs/me.jpg)
I am trying to decode them now on 10 meters ft8, I am hearing a strong rtty digital signal interfering. :'(Currently 17:21 UTC it's KZ5MM and K4MTS chatting on RTTY
Is it because of the rtty contest, or ..... ? :o
C O N G R A T S to all of you who are already in the log. I'm still on the hunt. I don't see any 20m QSOs in their log so either I worked a pirate or two, or the log may still be uploaded later.
Marvin VE3VEE
They had a meeting and decided to operate till gasoline in the generator runs out (likely tomorrow their afternoon) and then they will dismantle antennas and everything else and plan to head to the boat on Tuesday.
Marvin VE3VEE
They attempted a Zodiac landing earlier today, but were unsuccessful. The landing point is all rocks and ice, with a waterfall adjacent. If they could have landed, they were planning to bring more food, fuel, an amplifier, another generator, and more antennas. Being unable to do that, they decided they had had enough of operating on the cold floor (no tables or chairs), no heat (been living in their winter clothes for a week), high winds, etc. I don’t envy their situation.
Rich KE1B
They had a meeting and decided to operate till gasoline in the generator runs out (likely tomorrow their afternoon) and then they will dismantle antennas and everything else and plan to head to the boat on Tuesday.Although I did not work them, I'm glad the circus is over.
Marvin VE3VEE
I hope if there ever is another one, the Zodiacs are way bigger or they bring a crack helicopter pilot like 3Y0X did, or both. If not, don't bother. That's my opinion.
The DXpedition is what it is and won't be turned into a smashing success by another few days and another antenna and tent. Better to accept the successes gained (which were huge) and call it a day, with everyone safe.
Ed N1UR
Log Search
This form allows you to check if you are "in the log". It only works for registered Club Log users and expeditions that have uploaded their logs.
Log to search: 3Y0J
11,579 QSOs logged between 2023-02-06 16:24Z and 2023-02-12 13:26Z
Callsign to check:
FT8WW
Band CW
15 1
Note: 3Y0J is also using the Club Log expedition charts
kind of cool
Ray
Maybe Thiery will make DXCC. He'll be stuck on that rock for some time.I think he's there for another month. I'd be surprised if he didn't already have 100 entities in the log.
I dont think we will ever see a Dxpedition to there againI wonder if Dom (3Y0I) still has plans to go to Bouvet. Seeing as tonight is my last chance to get in the 3Y0J log, I am not overly optimistic.
I dont think we will ever see a Dxpedition to there againI wonder if Dom (3Y0I) still has plans to go to Bouvet. Seeing as tonight is my last chance to get in the 3Y0J log, I am not overly optimistic.
I am not overly optimistic.
I am not overly optimistic.
Mason,
They were loudest here in Potomac MD between 5:00 and 6:30 pm on 30 CW. That’s your best chance; go get ‘em
Paul
Are there any scientific bases left on Bouvet? Wasn't Chuck Brady (3Y0C) at a base there? Maybe we can get another ham or 2 stationed at the base if there are some still there that are manned.
73 John AF5CC
I am not overly optimistic.
Mason,
They were loudest here in Potomac MD between 5:00 and 6:30 pm on 30 CW. That’s your best chance; go get ‘em
Paul
Here in NJ between the same times on 30 CW + 0500-0700z on 30m. Providing they're on 30m.. that's 3 or 4 hours of pileup time. Go Mason!!
FWIW at 0500-0600Z on 30 I heard NOTHING but DQRM.
Paul
I've been in the pileups at those times every day and they have indeed had good signals at times. It's just a matter of getting through the massive pileups and battling the DQRM. I would estimate I have spent a good 12 hours calling so far :oI am not overly optimistic.
Mason,
They were loudest here in Potomac MD between 5:00 and 6:30 pm on 30 CW. That’s your best chance; go get ‘em
Paul
Here in NJ between the same times on 30 CW + 0500-0700z on 30m. Providing they're on 30m.. that's 3 or 4 hours of pileup time. Go Mason!!
They don't appear to be on 10.120 now, someone does 1 or 2 QSO's really weak then stops think it's Mr Slim as usual. I'm sure there is about 5000 people sitting waiting for the first proper CQ from them
Dom has said on the rebel facebook page he will go back with his own boat to Bouvet and peter 1 island.
This will still be a top 5 or 10 most wanted.
They don't appear to be on 10.120 now, someone does 1 or 2 QSO's really weak then stops think it's Mr Slim as usual. I'm sure there is about 5000 people sitting waiting for the first proper CQ from themYeah they seem to be gone now, but they were there. 10.120 was announced on Facebook, there was definitely a pileup with lots of EU callers, but that was a good 20-25 mins before I posted my last message.
Rebel DX Group
Dom has said on the rebel facebook page he will go back with his own boat to Bouvet and peter 1 island.
I just checked Dom's Facebook page. I don't see that. Could you post a link to that specific comment, or could you post a quote here.
Marvin VE3VEE
This will still be a top 5 or 10 most wanted.
If it was #2, I think it still will be #2, or perhaps #3.
Marvin VE3VEE
We either continue to Bouvetoya by end of the year or we will move this project to Peter 1( 3y0/P) next year.
Dom has said on the rebel facebook page he will go back with his own boat to Bouvet and peter 1 island.
I just checked Dom's Facebook page. I don't see that. Could you post a link to that specific comment, or could you post a quote here.
marvin check your ve3vee page messages.
and who knows what he will do its a struggle
Marvin VE3VEE
marvin check your ve3vee page messages.
Maybe I'm greedy but I hope Dom doesn't go to 3Y, Let him work towards Peter 1 and or maybe something else in the top 20,
Bouvet needs a chopper to be done right, this trip has proved that, And it's going to be very hard to raise another Million to activate it any time soon again
Guys, shouldn't we keep our focus on hoping this team get off the island and home safely first?I think that goes without saying!
Biggest question on my mind is 'will you guys try for another bouvet operation, or will you do something else like peter 1 instead?' 😉
Reply10 h
Dom Dom
Yes we will. Actually both on our own vessel. But plans not always work as we plan. So many different factors
Reply10 hEdited
Bill Crossley
I wish you the best of luck and hope to get you in my log from both. Especially if my 3y0j QSOs turn out to be busted...
Reply9 h
John Draves
The dxpedtion is great. The operators everywhere else are not
Reply10 h
Dom Dom
John Draves they land and operate. Question is if they were ready for this condition or not. Bouvet trip requires survival guys more than best operators. I keep my fingers crossed for them to keep operate and back home in one piece
Reply10 hEdited
Bill Crossley
Agree with that! I have 3 possible QSOs in my log, but due to lids, pirates, idiots, jammers, etc., I can not be sure of any of them. WTF is wrong with people?
Reply9 h
Sinisa Ruzin
What type of a boat should be used to transfer the equipment to the Bouvet island from main ship? Is it possible to go to the top of the hills or land on the northern shores? The current expedition is on the South side and I have not heard them in NA at all. Thanks.
Reply10 h
Dom Dom
Sinisa Ruzin we had 3 rib boats. 1 with twin engine 8 pax 6m . 2 other hard floor 4.2m. Aluminum hull. This big RIB boat will pull other one from shore back to the ocean using floating ropes without using human muscles. You need to have knowledge how to surf the waves to go on shore full speed. Than when you unload your people and cargo, this powerfull zodiac is pulling smaller one back to ocean.
Reply10 hEdited
Andrius Ignotas
Sinisa Ruzin 🚁 best way to transfer people and equipment to the island.
Reply10 h
Rebel DX Group
Andrius Ignotas that is the easiest way. But 85% of the time you can't fly due to wind, fog, mist, snow storm. There is no problem to start helicopter from the ship and land on the glacier..... The problem starts when you want to land back on the rolling vessel... I know one crazy fooker who is doing that every single day... He is flying on board of Aquilhas II South African Department of Environmental vessel.
Mariv i copy pasted
How they were able to transport Chuck's conteiner there?Chuck strapped it to his back and swam it ashore.
How they were able to transport Chuck's conteiner there?
And that would be the same mistake made on this Dxpedition.
One bigger Boat to carry supplies is a singular failure point.
The boat idea should be a backup to having a Helicopter. The weather may be bad but your bound to have a clear day and on that day you can get all the equipment over. If the sea gets rough and the Helicopter cannot land back on the boat it can land by the camp and wait it out.
If things are so bad that you cannot use the Helicopter then go to Plan B and use the Zodiacs.
Does anyone remember a program on TV years back can't remember they name of it but the used to sail around the Southern Seas in a big boat trying to stop the JA's from killing whales, I think the boat was called the Sea ShepardI believe you are thinking of Whale Wars.
Does anyone remember a program on TV years back can't remember they name of it but the used to sail around the Southern Seas in a big boat trying to stop the JA's from killing whales, I think the boat was called the Sea ShepardI believe you are thinking of Whale Wars.
Does anyone remember a program on TV years back can't remember they name of it but the used to sail around the Southern Seas in a big boat trying to stop the JA's from killing whales, I think the boat was called the Sea ShepardWe saw their mother ship docked in Antigua last season and it was for sale. No one aboard.
They had a nice Helicopter on board and were always short on cash, I wonder is that ship still around could be an option in there off season, Boat was crewed by a load of dope smoking hippies ;D
From DX World
[FEBRUARY 13 @ 1520Z]
NEW QRT DATE/ TIME – – 3Y0J will QRT Tuesday, 14 February 2023 at 03:00 UTC. Team will then pull out and transport all equipment to Marama. The final log update will be made once we are on Marama.
73 Rich KB8GAE
And that would be the same mistake made on this Dxpedition.
One bigger Boat to carry supplies is a singular failure point.
The boat idea should be a backup to having a Helicopter. The weather may be bad but your bound to have a clear day and on that day you can get all the equipment over. If the sea gets rough and the Helicopter cannot land back on the boat it can land by the camp and wait it out.
If things are so bad that you cannot use the Helicopter then go to Plan B and use the Zodiacs.
Can you figure out why landing a helicopter on a sailboat might be problematic?
Assuming that is tonight - Tuesday at 0300Z.
If they show up on SSB between now and then, it will be caos. They uploaded only 40 Qs in all of NA on SSB. Wow! And only 97 Qs on 15M for NA. I was one of those on 15M CW.
Ed N1UR
I though the last trip to Bouvet had a helicopter and it couldn't take off because it was too windy? Let's face it, this is a very difficult place to get ashore.
oh well, better luck next time if I live that long
73,
David KE4YD
Looks like they are QRT again. Hoping they can get back on the air in the next hour or so -- hopefully on 30m -- as that will probably be my last shot. Unfortunately, their QRT periods the past few days have coincided with peak band opening times for me.
Only be sheer dumb luck they all stopped enough for me to hear my call coming back.
Only be sheer dumb luck they all stopped enough for me to hear my call coming back.
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.Yep, and that's how I got my 30m CW contact. I found the QSX, narrowed my notch filter down to 50 Hz, and by some grace of good luck the lids shut up just long enough for me to hear my call coming back to me. I wasn't confident, but it was indeed valid.
Only be sheer dumb luck they all stopped enough for me to hear my call coming back.
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.
What about the Operators who stayed on the boat and didn't even operate ?? They paid big dollars to go on the dxpedition !
What about the Operators who stayed on the boat and didn't even operate ?? They paid big dollars to go on the dxpedition !
Could someone legitimately say they were part of the 3Y0J DXpedition if all they did was stay on the boat?Sure they can.
Could someone legitimately say they were part of the 3Y0J DXpedition if all they did was stay on the boat?
Could someone legitimately say they were part of the 3Y0J DXpedition if all they did was stay on the boat?
One of the pilots just reported that the reason they have been QRT is their generator died on them again. Previously, they have waited until daylight to fix it. So now the question is will they continue to operate for a few more hours come daylight, or will they be QRT for good? As I type this, the clock has struck 03z which is the time they were supposed to go QRT, at least before the generator failure.
That was Greenpeace. And I haven't heard of them doing things like that any more for a long long time. They did have a very Dxpedition worthy boat though as I remember.I saw the Sea Shepherd docked at Williamstown docks several years ago. It was a big ship. The stuff they got up, harassing the "scientific whaling crews" was audacious!
Ed N1UR
Many said they "Did Not Do CW" or "Did Not Do FT8". I frankly have little sympathy for them. The DX Does Not Care About Your Favourite (or Only) Mode of Operation.
It was a demonstration of how the the DQRMers will eat you alive if your signal is weak and you cannot control the pileup.
Could someone legitimately say they were part of the 3Y0J DXpedition if all they did was stay on the boat?
Sure but imagine where a conversation could go. "So you were a 3Y0J OP, did you operate or did you stay on the boat?" Because no DXer will forget what happened on this DXpedition.
Mason will probably still be in this forum, or at least still be a ham, come the 22nd Century just to keep the record straight. ;)
From now on and for the rest of my life, each time I hear or think about Bouvet, I'll smile and think what a beyond believe cluster F-U that undertaking was.
That's odd. I was thinking it was a DXpedition that gave us the CHANCE at working them. Just like most DXpeditions do. Maybe some were looking for Participation Trophy's I guess. For many of us, we'll look back years from now & smile how our preparation, skill & moxie overcame all the DQRM to log 3Y0J.
From now on and for the rest of my life, each time I hear or think about Bouvet, I'll smile and think what a beyond believe cluster F-U that undertaking was.
That's odd. I was thinking it was a DXpedition that gave us the CHANCE at working them. Just like most DXpeditions do.
Maybe some were looking for Participation Trophy's I guess.
For many of us, we'll look back years from now & smile how our preparation, skill & moxie overcame all the DQRM to log 3Y0J.
NØUN
Still, it is possible to exaggerate one's virtues here and assume the failures of others is entirely a matter of choice. It isn't. Some people have hidden constraints -- finances, health, family.And one must recognise one's limitations and set one's expectations accordingly.
I have to say that I admire that these guys overcame hardship and got on the island and made some Qs, where others have failed totally. That being said, the last few "Mega DXpeditions" with the $750,000- $1,000,000 pre-departure money raising have been dismal failures in my opinion. I think that this DXpedition and an unfortunate continuation of other failures have done more harm than good for top 20 DXpetitions for the future.
How many more times are people going to front the big money and see this outcome?
What bothered me about this DXpedition was the extremely poor decisions on bands used, communications through their official channels - not - and bailing out so early.
Did you see the sea conditions in the last pictures? Did they look hard to land in and beyond what you would have expected in planning? I hope not. Why did they bail and not build up further. $750,000 worth of people funded that, just sayin....
Instead they bailed early. Could have easily doubled down yesterday and today. And then left in the next weather window, which seem to come every 4 to 6 days.
People will say, oh but they won't know if they could get off safely...Sorry, you could have said that a year ago, and if that was paralyzing, then don't go.
I really believe future DXpeditions of this magnitude will need to deliver first, fund second. The pay me up front to help me go model has just died in my opinion.
I hope they are safe getting off and get home. However, next time, if safe is the ultimate goal, just stay home, that's safe too.
Ed N1UR
What bothered me about this DXpedition was the extremely poor decisions on bands used, communications through their official channels - not - and bailing out so early.
Did you see the sea conditions in the last pictures? Did they look hard to land in and beyond what you would have expected in planning? I hope not. Why did they bail and not build up further. $750,000 worth of people funded that, just sayin....
Instead they bailed early. Could have easily doubled down yesterday and today. And then left in the next weather window, which seem to come every 4 to 6 days.
Ed N1UR
And one must recognise one's limitations and set one's expectations accordingly.
Unfortunately, the expectations were set very high, with the Contest-competitive station that was planned, and everybody with a bit of wire and a transceiver *expected* to make it into the 3Y0J log. It surely would have been a wonderful thing for the plans to have been fully realised, and >>100,000 QSO in the log. But those without a pretty decent station were mostly left disappointed with what the team managed. For those, I guess it would have made no difference if they had *not* managed to get on the island and set up anything. I feel their disappointment.
I'm one with a smaller "average" station who managed to get in the log. I've had multiple opportunities to have a larger station but have a yard full of trees and a small lot that say otherwise (I've passed on two free full complete towers & beams...). I had to pay attention to the best band, I built and tossed up a delta loop & 4:1 balun to improve my chances, focused on greyline, used pileup skills from years of chasing dx and just a bit of luck with dqrm and I made it in. With a small station you gotta be willing to think outside the box, keep trying different things - and never, ever give up.congratulations sir great effort.
I've had multiple opportunities to have a larger station but have a yard full of trees
Here are short-path bearings over Bouvet's topography from Cape Fie to various NA locations:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hccJFCGztkU/YRG2vkMU3fI/AAAAAAAAIa4/7olXXKeJM2sH0u6ubOo5qUTCkoYvnQ-rwCLcBGAsYHQ/s16000/bouvet.jpg)
I will be interested in seeing how the topography affects propagation.
73 Rich KB8GAE
That's odd. I was thinking it was a DXpedition that gave us the CHANCE at working them. Just like most DXpeditions do.
Maybe some were looking for Participation Trophy's I guess.
For many of us, we'll look back years from now & smile how our preparation, skill & moxie overcame all the DQRM to log 3Y0J.
NØUN
You just cannot work a station that you can barely hear while dealing with a dozen stations QRMing him and another dozen calling on top of your own signal.It's worse on 30m where you're dealing with a 200W limit (and there were a LOT of stations that were maybe using 200 Texas Watts out there). But sometimes you get lucky. They were very weak on 30 when I worked them and the DQRMers were quiet for just the needed few seconds. I was also able to narrow my K3s down to 50 Hz and play with the manual notch filter to get rid of anybody who wasn't perfectly zero-beat with the DX. Frustrating for sure, and luck was absolutely involved.
We'll argue a long time about this one.
What seems apparent to me is that after three pretty expensive trips, a great fraction of the DX community had no realistic shot at Bouvet. There just weren't enough QSOs, world-wide, to keep those from more favored propagation from lapping just about all of it up.
If there was enough time -- if they got to (say) 50,000 QSOs and therefore 20,000 unique calls, it would have meant, as it does on other expeditions, that the entire DXing community had a shot.
Well, they didn't. But the "DXing must be as hard as possible, especially if I get mine and you didn't" crowd can rejoice. You got what you wanted.
Unfortunately, I don't see tremendous virtue here, necessarily. By the time we get done analyzing it, there probably will be the lingering suspicion that a lot of folks, no matter what their experience level is, no matter how large the tower, never made the cut. Nor were they ever going to unless the Q rate tripled or quadrupled.
This has been true of many expeditions. But most have some other group going back. Bouvet is different.
Bouvet is just plain hard to do. We had one expedition that turned out a decent number of QSOs. In 1989. Everything else has been of this sort. Limited QSOs from a limited station.
It's just not clear that everyone, especially after 1990, has had a fair shot at it. And, maybe cannot given the Norwegian base is now unavailable.
FWIW, I did work it SP on the West Coast on 30.
Just as a separate point of reference, Monaco, 3A, is actually quite difficult from the US West Coast. It is 137th, world wide, but 24th from here (says Clublog). There are many expeditions there, but it is still true that there are mountains between us in W7 and the short path. The only thing that keeps it from being a top 20 from this area (it almost is) is that there are enough expeditions so we can get it long path on a couple of bands, at least. But nobody in my neighborhood works all of the 3As that show up. Not even close.
To a degree, we might measure the availability of an entity by how much the least favored region gets through and whether there are enough locations so that "least favored" can vary if it is local mountains that are the problem.
| Africa | 202 | 1.7 |
| Asia | 3833 | 33.1 |
| Europe | 5198 | 44.9 |
| North America | 1773 | 15.3 |
| Oceania | 140 | 1.2 |
| South America | 426 | 3.7 |
| Totals | 11572 | 100.0 |
Certainly, those Right Thinking Hams in NA that refuse FT8 really struggled. We'll see if FT8 was a big difference maker or not.
For those playing along at home, here are the Clublog continental stats (with the FT8 QSOs still to come).
FT8 might strengthen the NA numbers. A bit.
Africa 202 1.7 Asia 3833 33.1 Europe 5198 44.9 North America 1773 15.3 Oceania 140 1.2 South America 426 3.7 Totals 11572 100.0
So, maybe NA got extra chances because of the donations, but it is not, in this evidence, a big difference maker.
And this doesn't break down East Coast versus West Coast either. Going by what's posted here, maybe 2/3 of the NA numbers, maybe even more than that, are West Coast. I don't know; maybe we never will.
But a lot of good hams that post here regularly and hams most of us would regard as good DXers got shut out. So did a lot of my friends on the "favored" West Coast.
Certainly, those Right Thinking Hams in NA that refuse FT8 really struggled. We'll see if FT8 was a big difference maker or not.
but my personal belief is that the FT8 operations drew away callers and made it easier for the CW guys.
Filtered by zone, and this doesn't include FT8 or anything after their first log posting:
Zone 3 459 QSO's
Zone 4 516 QSO's
Zone 5 669 QSO's
That adds up to 1644, a few less than W07R's numbers. West coast had the least of the 3 zones that cover the mainland US and Canada and East coast had the most.
But the "DXing must be as hard as possible, especially if I get mine and you didn't" crowd can rejoice. You got what you wanted.
And this doesn't break down East Coast versus West Coast either.
Certainly, those Right Thinking Hams in NA that refuse FT8 really struggled. We'll see if FT8 was a big difference maker or not.
But the "DXing must be as hard as possible, especially if I get mine and you didn't" crowd can rejoice. You got what you wanted.I personally never understood this whole gatekeeper mentality. We DXers should strive to lift all boats equally if we can. The thought of rejoicing that I made the log but you didn't is anathema to me. I want to see your call in the log (but of course I want to see mine first :D :D). My good friend Steve, WX2S earned his 5B-WAZ last November after less than 10 years. An incredible feat, and I was still holding at 198 at that point. Was I envious? Oh HELL yes, but I was glad he got it.
there probably will be the lingering suspicion that a lot of folks, no matter what their experience level is, no matter how large the tower, never made the cut. Nor were they ever going to unless the Q rate tripled or quadrupled.I don't necessarily agree. If their skills were decent and they had a big tower and plenty of aluminum in the air up high the only things that would have prevented them from getting a QSO with Bouvet were lack of BIC time, a refusal to work them on FT8 (or CW), being badly hindered by terrain that's worse than my own, or just plain old bad luck. And if someone was really desperate for a shot at Bouvet there was nothing stopping them from paying airtime charges on RHR, and that was essentially a guaranteed QSO if you're prepared to spend enough. If I were in an antenna-restricted community and needed 3Y0J for a DX milestone (HR#1, for example), you're darned tootin' I'd be calling from the biggest, baddest remote station I could get on if I had no station of my own any more.
It's just not clear that everyone, especially after 1990, has had a fair shot at it.They most certainly have had a shot at it, but they may have chosen not to do what was necessary to get in the log. That may have been involuntary (work, family/children, illness, etc), or apathy—not putting up a tower when they had the chance, electing to move into a CC&R restricted community, or buying a nicer car instead of bigger Yagis, etc. But opportunities were there. They weren't great opportunities, but getting in the log was possible, and thousands of people have done it since 1990.
It might help your cause to get a 1x2 or a 2x1 callsign. It's easier for them to copy four characters than six. I run into this a lot, but I've been known by my present call since May 2002 so I'm probably not going to change it now. I would like to operate contests under a 2x1 or 1x2.....
Not sure who is rejoicing or "got what they wanted, or want it to be as hard as possible."
Filtered by zone, and this doesn't include FT8 or anything after their first log posting:
Zone 3 459 QSO's
Zone 4 516 QSO's
Zone 5 669 QSO's
That adds up to 1644, a few less than W07R's numbers. West coast had the least of the 3 zones that cover the mainland US and Canada and East coast had the most. It'll be interesting to see what it is after the complete log is posted.
DXing at this level is not for the faint of heart or the weak of wallet. You need to be dedicated to the craft, prepared to invest a decent sum in gear, and put in a lot of time working the lesser operations to gain the wisdom needed to make the right decisions when that ultra-rare one comes on. Sure you can get lucky with 100W and a wire, but a 50 or 70 foot tower and good Yagis will be almost a guarantee of success on at least one band and one mode.
| Africa | 308 | 01.7 |
| Asia | 6457 | 36.2 |
| Europe | 7509 | 42.1 |
| North America | 2484 | 13.9 |
| Oceania | 382 | 02.1 |
| South America | 690 | 03.9 |
| Totals | 17830 | 100.0 |
When did we become the “I needed and therefore am entitled to and deserve it” hobby?
The expedition would have made perhaps 20% more qsos if not for deliberate jamming. I think a network needs to be established to identify jammers almost in real time.
I worked them on 30m early morning when jammers were asleep.
Ignacy NO9E
These things certainly help and help a lot. No serious person disputes this. But even this is no guarantee. There's a lot of hams who took up DXing after the year 1990 (QC members!), have done everything you suggest, and do not have Bouvet. They might not have Heard, either. Heard was pretty successful.It's not artificial at all. Honor Roll, especially today, is the most rarified air in DXing. It does take dedication, skill, and at least a moderately good station to achieve it.
...
This idea that only the best deserve HR or #1 HR is ratifying scarcity that is somewhat artificial.
That implication is clear in what you wroteQuoteWhen did we become the “I needed and therefore am entitled to and deserve it” hobby?
Who really says that?
The question is one of fairness. Well, life is unfair. But that doesn't mean we have to organize our hobbies to maximize the amount of unfairness there is.Sounds like you want to argue with yourself. None of us are entitled to anything, much less a expedition contact and labeling that as unfair is semantic crap meaning the same thing but with a different label. Quantifying unfairness is ludicrous.
It's not artificial at all. Honor Roll, especially today, is the most rarified air in DXing. It does take dedication, skill, and at least a moderately good station to achieve it.
.
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA says,
“We will start sailing tomorrow morning. We might take a tour around the island if wx is not too bad. All team is on board and equipment strapped for sailing to Cape Town. There are just some small items to strap inside the cabins. We might operate /MM. Our estimated ETA in Cape Town is 23 Feb. We plan to stay one night there and have a team dinner.
ALL logchecks shall be directed to QSL Manager Charles M0OXO. No team members have access to the log. They will not answer any requests. www.m0oxo.com”
In my other hobby, Jeeping, there is absolutely none of that attitude. When our club is on a trail everybody helps everybody else, unconditionally. If I get bogged and I have nothing to winch against someone will pull me out, and if I make it up but someone else doesn't I'll help winch them up. Of course we all have our boxes full of recovery gear (shackles, snatch blocks, Maxtrax boards, tree savers, tow straps, kinetic ropes, etc) which are the Jeeping equivalent of rigs with tight filtering, directional arrays, IF DSP, and so on. We provide the means so we can make our own luck in case there's nobody else around to help us.
That may be true, but it's not equivalent.Moral support and chatting on the phone or Messenger really does help a lot. I've given that help and have gotten that help. Plus my station is always open to friends who want to come over and work an ultra-rare one—it's provided eight QSOs to Scarborough Reef and a handful of others over the years. But yes, they have to work the DX themselves.
Other than letting someone operate your station to work rare DX, it's not the same. You can't work the DX for someone else - well you can, but it's not legal nor moral. You can spot the QSX to help others, but even then that data is time sensitive.
Other than providing moral support (and letting a friend operate your station), it's not the same as winching someone out of a mud pit.
Looks like the 30m FT8 QSO's are missing from the log.Some of them are there, but hopefully there will be more to come.
In assessing the availabilty of Bouvet over the years, the 2000-2001 one man 3Y0C operation by Chuck, N4BQW (SK), made slightly more than 16,000 QSOs over a period of around 3 months, largely SSB but with a signifiicant number of CW Qs, virtually all QRP 100w.
Or in my case, 1,499.5W or fewer :D :D :DIn assessing the availabilty of Bouvet over the years, the 2000-2001 one man 3Y0C operation by Chuck, N4BQW (SK), made slightly more than 16,000 QSOs over a period of around 3 months, largely SSB but with a signifiicant number of CW Qs, virtually all QRP 100w.Sorry W2LO, but QRP is 5W, not 100W.
Plus my station is always open to friends who want to come over and work an ultra-rare one—it's provided eight QSOs to Scarborough Reef and a handful of others over the years. But yes, they have to work the DX themselves. .While I know that isn’t prohibited, I never could understand what sense of accomplishment derives from using someone else’s station like that.
Easy. It's the operator's skill (or luck, if you believe in it) that ultimately makes the QSO. You sit in the chair in my QTH and I'm probably going to be at the other desk being a badass on Facebook or something while you work DX. To each their own.Plus my station is always open to friends who want to come over and work an ultra-rare one—it's provided eight QSOs to Scarborough Reef and a handful of others over the years. But yes, they have to work the DX themselves. .While I know that isn’t prohibited, I never could understand what sense of accomplishment derives from using someone else’s station like that.
None of us are entitled to anything, much less a expedition contact and labeling that as unfair is semantic crap meaning the same thing but with a different label. Quantifying unfairness is ludicrous.
Sounds like a transparent attempt to minimize the accomplishment with the constant reference to “luck” and doing so by using the result of one expedition just because it failed to live up to some expectation. Silly!
But if it is because that on balance, DXing and DXpeditioning in particular has become significantly tougher, and to too many of them unreasonable, that's a different animal. One we all should be interested in.This is precisely correct, and what I have (frequently) stated, both here and to my DXAC representative. The program has to encourage new entrants and give them an attainable goal. If that cheapens the award in the eyes of the Cycle 19 set, then so be it. This is a long term program, and many won't be around in the long term. The game has to be brought up to modern standards. Professional sports all allow instant replays now and that caused a lot of butthurt, but in the end it's for the better.
I don't know about you, but I want a DX that thrives. I do not want a game where the top prize is dangled and then years on, too many conclude it is out of reach. That is not "healthy". Screw fairness, how about the health of the program?
...
We all of us know (or should know) hams who have concluded that it is a mug's game by now. The question is: Are there too many of them? Will their ranks increase if we do the easy thing and sit on our haunches if conditions are, in fact, much harder?
...
When it comes to Bouvet, "I got mine". So, I can be a real jerk about it if I want. Cost me nothing to sneer at those that haven't got it. But, as someone already on the HR and possessing 5BWAZ, I'm kind of on the upper end of things. Maybe, just maybe, it pays for me to wonder about what people on the road to where I am are experiencing. And whether they will get there.
This is precisely correct, and what I have (frequently) stated, both here and to my DXAC representative.
There have been rumblings about a possible "DXCC 2025" package of revisions, similar to what we saw a quarter century ago. Whether it goes anywhere or not is anybody's guess, but it's worth reaching out. He was polite, at least :)This is precisely correct, and what I have (frequently) stated, both here and to my DXAC representative.And was your DXAC representative receptive?
I have not detected any reform momentum, but I haven't been paying attention either. If this recent experience doesn't move the needle, it's hard to see anything moving it in the near future.
The program has to encourage new entrants and give them an attainable goal. If that cheapens the award in the eyes of the Cycle 19 set, then so be it.
It's The Modern Way and a real shame...
Having read your last post in it’s entirety, I selected the point you are trying to make and deleted the irrelevant remainder and cliches.QuoteNone of us are entitled to anything, much less a expedition contact and labeling that as unfair is semantic crap meaning the same thing but with a different label. Quantifying unfairness is ludicrous.
No, it is not.
Certainly, those Right Thinking Hams in NA that refuse FT8 really struggled. We'll see if FT8 was a big difference maker or not.
Well, I am truly West Coast, just being a few miles inland. LP was indeed a powerful weapon. From here, a hex beam on 17 and a dipole on 30 were enough to get in the log, with some modest RX antennas. I worked hard on my station but in the end, none of the improvements I made actually mattered. In fact, my 30 meter QSO on the first night was with an antenna I put up hours before after seeing Col's tweet that they would be on 30 all night.
But I wanted to share my personal experience about mode: CW was way, way easier than FT8 for me. I did not call for more than 5 minutes for either of the CW QSOs I made. I called for hours on FT8 at 500+ watts without any success at all. Same station, totally different results. Part of it may have been propagation, but I also think FT8 is going or has gone full "red ocean" and it is not the path to easy success it may have once been. Everyone is welcome to their own interpretation of the situation, but my personal belief is that the FT8 operations drew away callers and made it easier for the CW guys. For the near future, perhaps, if you can hear the DX at all on CW, it may be an easier shot.
| Prefix | Entity | Most-wanted Rank | Comments |
| P5 | DPRK (NORTH KOREA) | 1 | Top level political problems. The son, unlike Daddy, doesn't seem interested in "demonstration" projects. |
| EZ | TURKMENISTAN | 23 | Top level political problems. Wait until the current ruler dies and then _maybe_ it changes? |
| BS7H | SCARBOROUGH REEF | 4 | Politics, potential to actual war zone |
| BV9P | PRATAS ISLAND | 6 | Politics, potential to actual war zone |
| KH3 | JOHNSTON ISLAND | 8 | Cesspool, this would be the king of "let someone else activate it." |
| KH7K | KURE ISLAND | 7 | Military approval, wasn't it? This and the next three are the sort that are impossible until they aren't. No idea when these will be green-lit again. Nothing recent. |
| CE0X | SAN FELIX ISLANDS | 5 | |
| YV0 | AVES ISLAND | 12 | |
| PY0T | TRINDADE & MARTIM VAZ ISLANDS | 17 | |
| 3Y/P | PETER 1 ISLAND | 9 | "Doable", but better plan on 2 to 3 million if we go by Bouvet and "some" failures. |
| FT/G | GLORIOSO ISLAND | 10 | Done as recently as 2009. Seems we might see this one. |
| YK | SYRIA | 25 | "When the war is over, Ashley. When the war is over." |
| ZL8 | KERMADEC ISLAND | 27 | Don't know on this one. Environmental, I assume? |
Kingman Reef was deleted because of a change in administration over it, which now made it part of Palmyra and Jarvis Island, not because it was difficult to get to or activate.
Looking at Johnson Island -- very nasty.I worked the very last-ever activation of that entity, a small operation by Martti Laine, who happens to have a Johnston-based callsign (AH3D, which he was using). This was before I got interested in CW and RTTY, so I only worked him on 10, 12, and 15 SSB. That's it. That was during the first week of February 2003. I'm kicking myself for missing him on CW and RTTY. I didn't start dabbling in CW until later that year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_limited_recognition
Looking at Johnson Island -- very nasty.I worked the very last-ever activation of that entity, a small operation by Martti Laine, who happens to have a Johnston-based callsign (AH3D, which he was using). This was before I got interested in CW and RTTY, so I only worked him on 10, 12, and 15 SSB. That's it. That was during the first week of February 2003. I'm kicking myself for missing him on CW and RTTY. I didn't start dabbling in CW until later that year.
Quotehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_limited_recognition
I give you high points for imagination, but reading through the list makes me, at least, squeamish.
A lot of these little rump states are little more than pawns in big power politics and may provoke wars. Maybe we don't care about that, but I suspect the league would look at the potential problems with various governments and opt out. It took a bit of time, remember, before the ARRL recognized Kosovo for DXCC purposes.
Let's look at the rest of EI2GLB's list:
PY0T TRINDADE & MARTIM VAZ ISLANDS 17 FT/G GLORIOSO ISLAND 10 Done as recently as 2009. Seems we might see this one. ZL8 KERMADEC ISLAND 27 Don't know on this one. Environmental, I assume?
My thoughts would be reducing the separation distance to allow a small handful of new entities, removing anything from the active list that would not conform to current or new list criteria (goodbye Scarborough, SMOM, the U.N., and ITU HQ), the addition of an "inactives" list for entities that have not been activated for X years (20-25 would be a reasonable number) or that have been declared off-limits to human recreational activity by the governmental agencies that administer access to the islands. I would also add the ability for stations in a vessel anchored within 250m of land from places like Bouvet on a case-by-case basis, where landing would be exceptionally dangerous and is not likely to occur safely. Photo evidence and a sworn statement from the vessel's master would be required for those. Failing that, I would consider reducing the number of entities needed to get on the Honor Roll to 20 below the top level, rather than the current 10. Any or all of these would breathe new life into a moribund program that desperately needs an injection of fresh blood.
Thanks to a friend, I was told they were loud in the western US on 15, and I got them from RHR Tacoma beaming 250°, along the terminator. Got a +3, if I recall, but I didn't take a screen shot; I wanted to get off quick and stop the meter :D . They were definitely on evens and I was working F/H mode.
I was monitoring 21.105 on my home station in NJ and in three hours there wasn't a single print on either long or short path, and that's with four elements at 65' on a C31XR.
Looks like the 30m FT8 QSO's are missing from the log.Some of them are there, but hopefully there will be more to come.
I know it's authorized by DXCC to use remote to make contacts anywhere within your own country, but it's still a joke. Don't know why you come on here making those statements, but when you do, some may wonder if you'll also use remote to work zones, grids, and Alaska on 6M. I'm not saying you will, just some may wonder.
Since you already have 30M and digital, insurance is not needed.
You've got to be kidding... Why don't we just delete and dumb down the program so everyone can have Honor Roll. And this is all for the new blood? You want countries/entities that haven't been activated for 20-25 years to be put on an inactive list? Well, that sounds like an ulterior motive since you need Pratas and San Felix, which haven't been activated in over 20 years. If you also want North Korea on that list, you'll need to come up with something else since it was activated in 2016.Way to overreact here mate. First of all, yes, it is absolutely for new blood to get interested. Tell someone "you'll never, ever be able to achieve in 30, 40, or 50 years what someone who got in 10 years ago did," and a newcomer will just say fine. Screw this and move on. If Basic Honor Roll was still a very distinct possibility for someone coming in now, today, in 2023, I wouldn't even dream of wanting to see this changed. But it's not, and it likely will NEVER be if governments hold to their "it's closed to human activity forever" policies. HR#1 is a very different animal and there's no way I'd agree to see that dumbed down, but basic HR within two solar cycles should be achievable by anybody with a reasonable station and dedication. There are close to 20 "closed" entities now. See a previous post for what I added. Maybe closer to 15, but still much more than the 10-back needed for the most basic level of HR.
The DXCC list is fine as it is, and hope the guys at DXAC see it that way. If they take you up on any of those ideas, there's gonna be some very pizzed off DXers, and I'll be one of them.Tough. Your achievements are great for you and other old-school operators, but they will likely never be possible by someone new. Old Timers on the way out have no business imposing UNATTAINABLE standards on the next generation. "This is how we did it, and we liked it" doesn't fly in 2023 with that precious demographic that everybody's trying to entice into DXing, those in their teens and twenties. That attitude of "I've got mine, screw you" is one of the most insidious evils in any field of endeavor.
I know it's authorized by DXCC to use remote to make contacts anywhere within your own country, but it's still a joke.It's authorized for DXCC and it's legal. Period. It's a tool that is permitted, and I intend to use it on occasion and as needed to further my goals. I will not hobble myself to keep to your or anybody else's allegedly lofty ideals. End of discussion.
Don't know why you come on here making those statements, but when you do, some may wonder if you'll also use remote to work zones, grids, and Alaska on 6M. I'm not saying you will, just some may wonder.In that case, "some" may take a flying....leap at a rolling doughnut. It's against the WAS and VUCC rules to work states and grids in that fashion and quite simply I will not do it. I want AK for not just a new DXCC (OK, that's within the remote rules), but also to close off my 10B-WAS, plus whatever VUCC grid(s) go along with that. Like just about everybody here, I have never and will never cheat for an award. Period. Full Stop. I simply cannot make it plainer than that. And to question the integrity of someone you've never even met or gotten to know personally is quite frankly unpalatable. Using accepted, modern, and cutting-edge tools is not cheating. If remote operations are ever disallowed then I'd never consider using one. Take that to the bank.
Except it turned out that it was needed. Two "contacts" that I made on 30m earlier never showed up. Then I used RHR to work 15 via remote and it's not there either. Until I see something in the log I will always assume the contact with a CW or digital station isn't legit, until it's proven otherwise. If I quit after those "Bouvet contacts", thinking, hey I got 3 already, lets not be a piggie, I wouldn't have bothered working them on 17, which turns out to be the only legit one in the log.Had to scratch my head about that one. This is what you already have in the log. Other than pigging out, what do you have to gain by a 30M FT8 QSO showing up in the log, and what do you have to lose if it doesn't show up? Since you already have 30M and digital, insurance is not needed.Looks like the 30m FT8 QSO's are missing from the log.Some of them are there, but hopefully there will be more to come.
insurance is not needed.
BLAH BLAH BLAH....
The experience of the past month or so has shown me that FT8 is no Panacea.
Quoteinsurance is not needed.During this particular expedition, insurance QSOs were very very much needed. The number of pirates interfering was just unprecedented. Many of us likely worked at least one of them. I personally worked a pirate on 20m FT8, then later on 20m CW, and only my last QSO, again on 20m FT8, was a valid one. One out of three.
Wonder how many of those zones are attributable to RHR. Just sayin....
One.
If you devoted similar energy into contesting as you do DXing, you might overcome many of your trials and tribulations like the mountain that moves, or your seeming inability to work stations during a contest. Instead of whining about the choices you made by buying a QTH at the base of Mount Everest, you could channel all that energy into increased BIC time during major contests to help out your contest club.When I bought this place I didn't know what takeoff angle and HF Terrain analysis was. If I did, 100% I wouldn't have considered it. Ask Zev what it's like operating from here. Or come try it yourself—I could use another op for ARRL-CW. Europe from my QTH is a slog. I can't hear the 100W/wire guys clearly enough to work, just the big mega-stations and kW/triband types from over there. Getting a run going is very, very difficult so I'm 90% S&P. Quite honestly, even in the best conditions, 1.5M to 2M is as good as score as you'll ever see me able to post.
and then leave within 9 as "Full" or what have you...rather than tinkering with the rules to specifically make it easier.
Wonder how many of those zones are attributable to RHR. Just sayin....
One.
This is the most resent FB update from team 3Y0J....Oh my. That's... really unfortunate. No wonder some of those digital pileups were such a disaster.
We had issues with the FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock were 14 seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it was even.
Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award ;D
That’s the spirit!Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award ;D
A lot of 1's, couple dozen 2's, but I did see a 3.
Good for him, 3 Q's somebody else didn't get. They get participation trophy's instead. That makes me happy.
NØUN
This is the most resent FB update from team 3Y0J.
We activated Bouvet Island in extremely difficult conditions! Now that we leave Bouvet with mixed feelings, we also know that we did what we could to get Bouvet on the air.
Four members went ashore at Bouvet on 31 January in good conditions to set up the climbing route and install an unmanned zodiac rope system between a buoy and the beach, so that we could land equipment also in rough surf. During the day the surf increased, and the extraction of the team members was aborted, and we were thus stranded on Bouvet late in the evening. During 3 nights we slept outdoors under the open sky in cold and difficult conditions with little or no supplies. We prepared a simple emergency shelter on the island where we stayed (tarp). During the second day we got some supplies in a risky zodiac operation in high swell. We lost several objects in the surf and punctured the zodiac. The conditions on the beach were terrible. Due to the coming storm, we evacuated back to Marama on day 4.
Despite this, we decided to go ahead and scale down DXped. We could not fight against Bouvet, but had to adjust to the weather and go ashore when Bouvet allowed us. We called it "Picolite DXped" as pictures will show you we operated with 100W from a single tent, no chairs and no table, 60m coax, no amp, simple antennas, small generator etc. Our 2 Elecraft K3 radios were stacked on top of a bucket turned upside down, and we sat on the ground operating. All our wet clothes were dried outdoor on the rocks, and we had very limited heating. We went through a storm of 55 knots, but our tent had no problem with the windforce! The spiderpoles and the DX Engineering antennas also survived the storm w/o any issue.
We only took the equipment we needed, 620 kg in total including supplies. All our supplies to the island were via a rope attached to a buoy 100 meters from shore to beach. All objects were hooked to the line and floated to shore by team members pulling the rope. We named it the gym. The team members also went ashore in survival suits hooked to the line and floating to shore. What an experience!!
Radio Operation: Pileup was difficult as our signals were weak. We had good reception and very often we called 3 to 5 times to log a qso. Many DXers called us but couldn't hear us, how frustrating! We focused on fewer bands to maximize ATNO and looking at the stats we achieved 19,000 QSOs and 50% unique calls. And many dupes! Many are satisfied, but some are also disappointed by the performance of either the team or the DQRMers. We had issues with the FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock were 14 seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it was even.
As for Bouvet, there is no guarantee at all, whether you use two helicopters or zodiac! We could have wanted to make more contacts, but safety was and will always be more important than trying to push our limits in a risky environment. In the coming months, you will be invited to hear more of our stories at conventions and in articles.
Nobody but a few of us care about DXCC anymore. Look at the FCC license numbers. HALF are Technicians. 50.2%.
That’s the spirit!Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award ;D
A lot of 1's, couple dozen 2's, but I did see a 3.
Good for him, 3 Q's somebody else didn't get. They get participation trophy's instead. That makes me happy.
NØUN
For folks like me it doesn't matter - but didn't they operate 30M FT8?
Maybe I missed something (it has happened once before)?
NØUN
Many (most?) of those with two or more Q's were probably making insurance QSO's. It's how we did it in the old days.
Randy / WB9LUR
Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award ;D
A lot of 1's, couple dozen 2's, but I did see a 3.
Good for him, 3 Q's somebody else didn't get. They get participation trophy's instead. That makes me happy.
NØUN
Someone in this very group posted, after listening to the recording of my QSO, that they still were not sure if I made the Q or not and suggested that I should work them again to be sure.
Randy / WB9LUR
2. The rules should be changed to make it easier/quicker/ less onerous to achieve a goal.
What many did in “the old days” was send “599 pse cfm” as the exchange to ensure we were in the log. Guess people don’t know that works with the collateral benefit of eliminating dupes.
Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award ;D
A lot of 1's, couple dozen 2's, but I did see a 3.
Good for him, 3 Q's somebody else didn't get. They get participation trophy's instead. That makes me happy.
NØUN
After running the latest from Club Log, there's one eHammer with 5 Q's, lol.
A lot of the 1's are now 2's. 2's are now 3's - a 4, and now a 5!
Well done sir, well done!
NØUN
That’s the spirit!Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award ;D
A lot of 1's, couple dozen 2's, but I did see a 3.
Good for him, 3 Q's somebody else didn't get. They get participation trophy's instead. That makes me happy.
NØUN
Well I assume I might have one CW contact under Kens Bouvet Call sign but I don't even know how to confirm that one yet.
985 30 meter FT8 QSOs have been uploaded. Many that people I know were expecting still seem to be missing. Whether though pirates or operator error, the bust rate here for FT8 is astonishing.
What many did in “the old days” was send “599 pse cfm” as the exchange to ensure we were in the log. Guess people don’t know that works with the collateral benefit of eliminating dupes.
I was reasonably sure both of my Qs were good with someone, and they were. What I did not know was whether it was Slim. Getting an in-band confirmation confirms nothing in that context.
Well I assume I might have one CW contact under Kens Bouvet Call sign but I don't even know how to confirm that one yet.
I got one on FT8 during the F/H Debacle and that seems to have gone into the Bin, so I wait here in limbo thinking that this one is a bust.
It would not be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that those people probably had a dozen RHR stations in their arsenal. Anyway a Q made that way would be useless to me.
It would not be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that those people probably had a dozen RHR stations in their arsenal. Anyway a Q made that way would be useless to me.
It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award. Kinda dilutes the value of the award compared to those that did it from home, or a remote station that they built and own. But it's allowed, so to each his own ::).
It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world,
Go Here: https://clublog.org/logsearch.php
Enter Ken's call (3Y7GIA) as log to search
Enter your call as KD8MJR
And stand by for bad new unfortunately
Well I assume I might have one CW contact under Kens Bouvet Call sign but I don't even know how to confirm that one yet.
I got one on FT8 during the F/H Debacle and that seems to have gone into the Bin, so I wait here in limbo thinking that this one is a bust.
It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award. Kinda dilutes the value of the award compared to those that did it from home, or a remote station that they built and own. But it's allowed, so to each his own ::).
After running the latest from Club Log, there's one eHammer with 5 Q's, lol.
A lot of the 1's are now 2's. 2's are now 3's - a 4, and now a 5!
Well done sir, well done!
NØUN
worst[/u] prefix someone could possibility have for CW is HH5. I operated in the 160 CW contest & had my keyer speed set to it's usual 40WPM. If I operated S&P NO ONE and I mean NO ONE could copy the callsign correctly. :)
Tom KH0/KC0W
Who got 5, I only got 3 :'( I missed 10m and 30m, Never heard them anywhere else,
Trevor
EI2GLB
Guys like you always say that proposals for change "make it easier". But, you never seem to consider the possibility that things today just might be significantly harder than they used to be.Significantly harder is one thing. Impossible, according to the rules of the government agency that control the entities in question, is another. Honor Roll should not be something you can earn in 5 or 10 years if you're starting from scratch. That would be insanity. But it should be achievable within 25 if you're skilled, lucky, and have a good station (redundancy alert).
If that proves true (and there is some evidence for it), then we need to think about what we want to do. If DXing, overall, keeps ratcheting up the difficulty, it is someday going to die. People are going to do it for a while, look at the end game, decide "never going to be me" and stop. Happens already, always did; the question is "is this group increasing"? Well, if we keep making it harder, it will.Agreed. This is precisely my argument. Those will be be serious DXers (and hopefully DXpeditioners) tomorrow are millennials and older Gen-Zers. They have absolutely no use for the whole "that's the way it has to be or else" nonsense. Why do you think it's so difficult for businesses to find workers today? The younger workers who'd normally start in entry level positions have the ability and power to tell bosses to get stuffed and walk away. Guess how any new DXer will react when someone who's been DXing since the 50s or 60s tells them "how it has to be." I'll give you a hint: Two words, and they're not Merry Christmas.
Suppose we did adopt a rule for very expensive places like Bouvet or Peter I that allowed us to do Maritime Mobile as long as the boat was within (say) 15 miles of the island, and properly certified as such.You're far more generous that me. I'd say within 250 or 500 metres of the high water mark or something like that, although to be fair I don't even play a maritime law lawyer on TV, so I frankly don't know what's legal or not in that regard.
I'll answer that, since I've used RHR in DXing and I enjoy it. I used to feel exactly the same way, to be honest, but after listening to all the old arguments a zillion times I realized something important in all this, and that is I get the satisfaction of hearing my callsign and a 73 come back to me after successfully working a station, and I know my operating skill is what allowed it to happen just as much if not more than the nice hardware. The RHR hardware just equalizes the chance for me to work something by virtue of it hearing better. My K3s has as good a receiver as their Flex 6600s, my KPA-1500 is similar to their PGXL amps, so it's just a question of getting more signal into the radio than I can get from home, or more likely, using a receiver that is in an electrically quieter location. Yes, their towers are a lot higher and their arrays have more gain than my simple tribander and shorty-forty, but all the gain in the world is useless if you don't know what to do with it.Anyway a Q made that way would be useless to me.It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award. Kinda dilutes the value of the award compared to those that did it from home, or a remote station that they built and own.
Resorting to a dupe to ensure someone is in the log, while somewhat understandable, doesn’t explain why the % of unique calls was so low unless everyone did that.
And don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's. But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...
$1.25 a minute plus $20.00 a month. Heck, I'll let you remote into mine for $1 a minute, minimum 2 hours per day (exclusions apply).Cheaper to subscribe for a year ($100/yr), and there are a ton of smaller stations that are a lot cheaper.
And don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's. But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...I bet very few people even "remember" that rule exists, unfortunately.
Significantly harder is one thing. Impossible, according to the rules of the government agency that control the entities in question, is another.
Honor Roll should not be something you can earn in 5 or 10 years if you're starting from scratch.
$1.25 a minute plus $20.00 a month. Heck, I'll let you remote into mine for $1 a minute, minimum 2 hours per day (exclusions apply).Cheaper to subscribe for a year ($100/yr), and there are a ton of smaller stations that are a lot cheaper.And don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's. But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...I bet very few people even "remember" that rule exists, unfortunately.
The thing with RHR that really gets under my skin is that, although legal/acceptable, working rare ones on the 160 when you yourself are in full daylight. I guess that's my personal line in the sand. But it's legal, so more power to those who want to do it that way, I guess.
You might get some donations for doing either one
I am all set to operate remote from Fiji,…
Maybe if I get bored and feel like stabbing myself in the eyes with a sharp object I may do it. Maybe not. We'll see.
NØUN
I am all set to operate remote from Fiji, and when the time comes remote from Rotuma, and several other entities. Dedicated gear, software, configuration, license & callsign in hand. Got the latency down to a few milliseconds. Yet I hesitate. Why? Look at the DX Clusters. Look at 3Y0J Facebook comments. I am not convinced, although "legal", why would I open myself up to all these armchair idiots? Why would I go out of my way to work Phone or CW and give these clowns a Q? They practically hung Ken and his Group. They practically hang Dom everywhere he goes (although it is funny to me to see folks begging Dom to go to Bouvet now).
Maybe if I get bored and feel like stabbing myself in the eyes with a sharp object I may do it. Maybe not. We'll see.
NØUN
I am all set to operate remote from Fiji, and when the time comes remote from Rotuma, and several other entities. Dedicated gear, software, configuration, license & callsign in hand. Got the latency down to a few milliseconds. Yet I hesitate. Why? Look at the DX Clusters. Look at 3Y0J Facebook comments. I am not convinced, although "legal", why would I open myself up to all these armchair idiots? Why would I go out of my way to work Phone or CW and give these clowns a Q? They practically hung Ken and his Group. They practically hang Dom everywhere he goes (although it is funny to me to see folks begging Dom to go to Bouvet now).
Maybe if I get bored and feel like stabbing myself in the eyes with a sharp object I may do it. Maybe not. We'll see.
NØUN
Not that I am doubting that you did your due diligence but I don't even understand how this can be legal.
So your saying a single operator with five Strong Sherpa type workers could activate Peter 1st using one tent and setup 6 remote stations via Starlink and have twelve operators sitting in the USA running the stations 24/7?
This would be considered legal by the ARRL?
Here's a remote operation from a rare one nobody should ever have forgotten...
https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld (https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld)
NØUN
QuoteAnd don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's. But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...
Tell you what. Why don't you and your like-minded friends start a thread called: "Everyone who doesn't DX like I do is a cheater."
Your constant, fact-free accusations are tiresome. Typical "keyboard warrior" stuff. My guess is, you'd never do that in person.
So, take your vitriol to your own thread. The rest of us get tired of you slandering people without evidence.
Pro tip: Don't ever move to Britain. They would eat your sort alive in slander suits.
After running the latest from Club Log, there's one eHammer with 5 Q's, lol.There's a certain Asian station that has 8 QSOs in the log with 3Y0J...
A lot of the 1's are now 2's. 2's are now 3's - a 4, and now a 5!
Well done sir, well done!
NØUN
Here's a remote operation from a rare one nobody should ever have forgotten...
https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld (https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld)
NØUN
When was there ever a time when that was not true for some places?
Here's a remote operation from a rare one nobody should ever have forgotten...
https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld (https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld)
NØUN
Well I know I haven't, lol.
Good luck with 3D2UN.
It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award. Kinda dilutes the value of the award compared to those that did it from home, or a remote station that they built and own. But it's allowed, so to each his own ::).I do not have an issue with people who operate remote stations, including those on RHR. If the operator has the money and wants to have fun playing on these big remote stations, I say have at it. As some of you know, I am a member of the RHR Youth Program and my station is part of their youth network, allowing other youth hams (many of whom may not have a home station of their own) to be able to get on the air and have some HF fun.
It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award.
If it's a question of a few places then there is no issue. Before it was China, Albania and maybe one or two others. Bhutan, P5. Top of the Honor Roll was not attainable throughout that entire time. However basic Honor Roll certainly was. It wasn't easy, but for most of the post-war period a decent station and dedication plus skill could get you on the HR with a lot of blood sweat and tears. For a new DXer, getting on the Honor Roll was possible until very recently. I started in 2001 and Tromelin got me onto the mixed and phone HR in October 2014. So 13 years. But ever since there's been wave after wave of environmental closures. Countries who's governments have officially stated that <entity> is now completely off limits to human recreational activity. Those entities were able to be activated before; they no longer are and will likely not be for generations, if ever. There are now far more than 10 entities that fall into that category, making basic entry-level HR an impossibility for someone starting today with zero entities worked.Significantly harder is one thing. Impossible, according to the rules of the government agency that control the entities in question, is another.When was there ever a time when that was not true for some places?
It may have been for a brief while, but not likely. Probably around 1999-2019 or so, if ever. But there are many here who think any new proposals or revisions will lead to precisely that. The sky is falling, we're throwing every standard out the window. Just as every other BadThing™ was going to spell the end of amateur radio. Every single one of those dire predictions was wrong and this one is too.Honor Roll should not be something you can earn in 5 or 10 years if you're starting from scratch.When was that ever possible?
I am all set to operate remote from Fiji, and when the time comes remote from Rotuma, and several other entities. Dedicated gear, software, configuration, license & callsign in hand. Got the latency down to a few milliseconds. Yet I hesitate. Why? Look at the DX Clusters. Look at 3Y0J Facebook comments. I am not convinced, although "legal", why would I open myself up to all these armchair idiots? Why would I go out of my way to work Phone or CW and give these clowns a Q? They practically hung Ken and his Group. They practically hang Dom everywhere he goes (although it is funny to me to see folks begging Dom to go to Bouvet now).
Here's a remote operation from a rare one nobody should ever have forgotten...
https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld (https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld)
NØUN
Well I know I haven't, lol.
Good luck with 3D2UN.
Won't be long they'll be a waiting line to be the remote op from their nice warm shack.
| Most W | Prefix | Country | Last Activated | Last Major Activation | Main Problem | More/Less Difficult? |
| 1 | P5 | DPRK (NORTH KOREA) | Small numbers? | Never | Politics | Wash at best |
| 2 | 3Y/B | BOUVET ISLAND | 2023-02-13 | 2023-02-13 | Expense, Permissions, maybe heli | Harder (see also failures, only really biggie Jan '90) |
| 3 | FT5/W | CROZET ISLAND | 2023-03-15 | 2023-03-15 | Permissions? | Recent Activation, 2 in 15 years |
| 4 | BS7H | SCARBOROUGH REEF | 2007-05-05 | 2007-05-05 | Politics, War | Harder |
| 5 | CE0X | SAN FELIX ISLANDS | 1991-04-25 | Never | Politics | Wash |
| 6 | BV9P | PRATAS ISLAND | 2000-04-12 | 2000-04-12 | Politics | Wash |
| 7 | KH7K | KURE ISLAND | 2005-09-25 | 2005-09-25 | Permissions | Wash at best, USFW hires?? |
| 8 | KH3 | JOHNSTON ISLAND | 2003-06-03 | Never | Permissions | Wash at best, USFW hires, major pollution?? |
| 9 | 3Y/P | PETER 1 ISLAND | 2006-02-19 | 2006-02-19 | Expense, Helicopter | Harder, Some stirrings of plans |
| 10 | FT5/X | KERGUELEN ISLAND | 2005-03-20 | 2005-03-20 | Expense | Wash |
| 11 | FT/G | GLORIOSO ISLAND | 2009-09-15 | 2009-09-15 | Permissions? | Recent Activation |
| 12 | VK0M | MACQUARIE ISLAND | Active | Never | Expense but Recent Resident | Easier |
| 13 | YV0 | AVES ISLAND | 2006-04-28 | 2006-04-28 | Permissions | Wash |
| 14 | KH4 | MIDWAY ISLAND | 2009-10-13 | 2009-10-13 | Permissions | Wash at best |
| 15 | ZS8 | PRINCE EDWARD & MARION ISLANDS | 1989-05-29 | Never? | ?? | Wash at best |
| 16 | PY0S | SAINT PETER AND PAUL ROCKS | 2012-11-23 | 2012-11-23 | Permissions? | Wash |
| 17 | PY0T | TRINDADE & MARTIM VAZ ISLANDS | 2015-04-04 | 2002-02-18 | Permissions, Military Admin | Wash, 7K in 2015 |
| 18 | KP5 | DESECHEO ISLAND | 2009-02-27 | 2009-02-27 | Permissions, Helicopter | Harder because of helis & USFWS "hires" |
| 19 | SV/A | MOUNT ATHOS | Active | Never | Permissions | Wash |
| 20 | VP8S | SOUTH SANDWICH ISLANDS | 2016-01-25 | 2016-01-25 | Expense but Recent Activation | Wash |
| 21 | KH5 | PALMYRA & JARVIS ISLANDS | 2016-01-26 | 2016-01-26 | Permissions | Wash at best, USFW hires?? |
| 22 | ZL9 | NEW ZEALAND SUBANTARCTIC ISLANDS | 2016-01-07 | 2016-01-07 | Permissions | Harder; Briefly easier, expanded from just Cambell then tough permisisons |
| 23 | EZ | TURKMENISTAN | 2006-12-31 | Never? | Politics, prohibited completely | Harder, more thorough than ZA or P5 prohibitions |
| 24 | FK/C | CHESTERFIELD IS. | 2015-10-11 | 2015-10-11 | Permissions | Wash at best; reasonable expedition count since 2000 but stricter rules now. |
| 25 | YK | SYRIA | Resident | Never | War | Call it wash; never very active, war is short term problem?? |
Won't be long they'll be a waiting line to be the remote op from their nice warm shack.
Even 7 years ago (wow!) when I did VK0LD, I thought offering access to "be the DX" was a logical progression for helping to fund DXpeditions. The technology has moved on so far during that time that it's probably ripe about now. Doing it via geostationary satellites was honestly pushing the thing to the limit. The lower LEO latency from something like Starlink could be a game changer.
A year or so ago, I predicted on this forum that it was only a matter of time before we saw a predominantly-remote DXpedition, and that it would come from an unexpected direction. Maybe that time is finally upon us?
I'm sure I read that St Peter and Paul Rocks (16) saw its last DXpedition in 2012?
When I bought this place I didn't know what takeoff angle and HF Terrain analysis was. If I did, 100% I wouldn't have considered it. Ask Zev what it's like operating from here. Or come try it yourself—I could use another op for ARRL-CW. Europe from my QTH is a slog. I can't hear the 100W/wire guys clearly enough to work, just the big mega-stations and kW/triband types from over there. Getting a run going is very, very difficult so I'm 90% S&P. Quite honestly, even in the best conditions, 1.5M to 2M is as good as score as you'll ever see me able to post.
Also remember that I work from this same desk typically 60 to 80 hours a week, and there are some weekends I'm just so wiped out that I can't stomach the thought of sitting at my work desk for another two days straight, but I do it for FRC and try to soldier on until I just can't any more. Yeah, excuses, excuses, excuses...but my passion in radio is DXing and awards chasing, not contesting. Contesting can be fun, and I love FRC, but after operating from a crap location for 16 or so years I've hit a wall and it's just not a pleasant experience if you want to know the ghods' honest truth. Maybe I'd do better being an op in a big M/M, or certainly from a DX location with big antennas and power but from here? Meh.
Like I said, I'll challenge anybody to come up here and sit in this chair for a few hours in CQWW or ARRL-DX, especially Friday night, and see how fun it is to have every big 1x2 and 2x1 east coast callsign beat you like a drum in every single mult pileup. And no, I'm not changing my callsign, but I'm often sorely tempted after an SSB contest.
Simple stations with high T/O angles just can't compete effectively with the big guns. I have trouble with the low-angle DX and outside of contests; a semi-rare one that would probably take you an a few minutes or half an hour to work often takes me many hours or I don't get through until the next day, even with about 1350-1400W. Now condense that to needed mults, and do it 300 times in the roughly 30 or so hours I can play. C'mon up and try it. It'll be fun!
I think we have ventured pretty far off of the 3Y0J topic here.Wait a minute! We need to complain about FT8 a bit more! ;D
Time to start a new thread. 3Y0J is done.
Ed N1UR
If it's a question of a few places then there is no issue. Before it was China, Albania and maybe one or two others. Bhutan, P5. Top of the Honor Roll was not attainable throughout that entire time. However basic Honor Roll certainly was. It wasn't easy, but for most of the post-war period a decent station and dedication plus skill could get you on the HR with a lot of blood sweat and tears. For a new DXer, getting on the Honor Roll was possible until very recently. I started in 2001 and Tromelin got me onto the mixed and phone HR in October 2014. So 13 years. But ever since there's been wave after wave of environmental closures. Countries who's governments have officially stated that <entity> is now completely off limits to human recreational activity. Those entities were able to be activated before; they no longer are and will likely not be for generations, if ever. There are now far more than 10 entities that fall into that category, making basic entry-level HR an impossibility for someone starting today with zero entities worked.Significantly harder is one thing. Impossible, according to the rules of the government agency that control the entities in question, is another.When was there ever a time when that was not true for some places?It may have been for a brief while, but not likely. Probably around 1999-2019 or so, if ever. But there are many here who think any new proposals or revisions will lead to precisely that. The sky is falling, we're throwing every standard out the window. Just as every other BadThing™ was going to spell the end of amateur radio. Every single one of those dire predictions was wrong and this one is too.Honor Roll should not be something you can earn in 5 or 10 years if you're starting from scratch.When was that ever possible?
There can only really be one side of this argument that will win; there's not a whole lot of room for compromise. Keep everything status quo and keep things difficult by 1995 standards. The old timers will be happy—until they pass away in a few years or become inactive, and as a result of which we'll lose scores of potential new DXers (and DXpeditioners) that are necessary to keep the program alive.
Or else reasonable reforms to the program are instituted like a reduced HR threshold or an inactives list, maritime mobile activations, etc, that will reflect the DXing landscape and political realities we all now face. The old guard will throw a collection conniption and threaten to hang up their straight keys and D-104s forever (probably less than 10% will, of course, the next time someone goes to Bouvet or Peter 1), but newly minted QRPers will see a path ahead that's going to be a tough but possible road to follow.
How many of those who are adamant about never, ever changing the DXCC program's rules already have the following entities confirmed and verified: Turkmenistan, Navassa, Desecheo, Johnston Atoll, Kermadec Island, NZ Sub-Antarctic Islands (Auckland-Campbell), St. Peter and Paul Rocks, Syria, North Korea, Pratas, San Felix, Conway Reef, Scarborough Reef, and Kerguelen Islands. Well guess what. That's 14 that will probably not be active for decades, if ever, and I know I'm leaving a few off that list.
Maybe we'll get lucky and see 4 or 5 of them open up, and if they do great. But let's say for the sake of discussion that they don't open for 30 years, and no new entities are added in that time. Nobody who had earned their license after 2020 will be able to get on the Honor Roll until at least the year 2050. The old guard will be long gone (me included, probably) so who'll be left to work the DX and be the DX? You think all those young-in-2023 hams who were disincentivized to continue pursing DXCC awards will stick around? The status quo will hurt DXing long-term. Of that I am 100% certain. Modernizing it and giving new hams a path to success is the only way.
QuoteIt beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award.
So, you confess to a weak imagination then?
Let me supply just one example:
Suppose you're a 75 year old ham. You are in frail health. You had a station, but you sold out to pay for your medical care. You still have a computer and the internet and, however shakily, you can still operate the computer.
There are still some ham goals that interest you, especially including DXing.
Choice one: Give up ham radio forever, sit in your drool, and watch the soaps.
Choice two: Sign up for RHR and see if you can still reach some of those goals, particularly in DXing.
Choice two may not have been what you would have wanted at age 20, but it is available at age 75. For a lot of people, something beats nothing and "purity" gives way to reality.
RHR is there for people who are "not you" and have trade-offs in life that are "not yours".
QuoteAnd don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's. But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...
Tell you what. Why don't you and your like-minded friends start a thread called: "Everyone who doesn't DX like I do is a cheater."
Your constant, fact-free accusations are tiresome. Typical "keyboard warrior" stuff. My guess is, you'd never do that in person.
So, take your vitriol to your own thread. The rest of us get tired of you slandering people without evidence.
Pro tip: Don't ever move to Britain. They would eat your sort alive in slander suits.
(https://cdn-bio.qrz.com/r/wo7r/Larry_Renfest_Headshot_tif_0.jpg)
BBBWWWAAAAAHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
I’m sure you have heard the cliche - “when you win a fight with a skunk, even when you win, you lose”QuoteIt beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award.
So, you confess to a weak imagination then?
Let me supply just one example:
Suppose you're a 75 year old ham. You are in frail health. You had a station, but you sold out to pay for your medical care. You still have a computer and the internet and, however shakily, you can still operate the computer.
There are still some ham goals that interest you, especially including DXing.
Choice one: Give up ham radio forever, sit in your drool, and watch the soaps.
Choice two: Sign up for RHR and see if you can still reach some of those goals, particularly in DXing.
Choice two may not have been what you would have wanted at age 20, but it is available at age 75. For a lot of people, something beats nothing and "purity" gives way to reality.
RHR is there for people who are "not you" and have trade-offs in life that are "not yours".
No, at 77 I still have a very vivid imagination, Mr. Opinionated…you seem to have an argument for everything on these forums. And it’s always your way or the highway ;). Nothing to do with my imagination.
My point was using *pay-for-play* remote stations to claim *individual credit for an award/certificate*. But the rules allow it. Personally, I wouldn’t derive a sense of accomplishment doing things that way. But if you live in an antenna restricted HOA, or now at the ripe old age of 75 sitting in an assisted living facility, drooling on your bib and wanting to still experience general ham radio operation, why not RHR? It’s definitely a viable option.
Someone else on here stated that even though he has a K3S, KPA-1500, tower with a tribander and 40M yagi, he still uses RHR. He has his reasons. Not for me to judge.
I live in a HOA with antenna prohibitions here in AZ, and use two stealth screwdriver antennas and attic dipoles for SO2R contest operations. I’ve been able to achieve some fairly decent contest scores and although I’m not a paper/award chaser, I’m closing in on 300 DXCC entities with my current setup. I just check them off on a list, knowing I worked them.
You should consider just stating your opinions, without chiding others for theirs. No need to pass judgement on my “imagination”…you don’t know me.
Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award ;D
QuoteAnd don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's. But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...
Tell you what. Why don't you and your like-minded friends start a thread called: "Everyone who doesn't DX like I do is a cheater."
Your constant, fact-free accusations are tiresome. Typical "keyboard warrior" stuff. My guess is, you'd never do that in person.
So, take your vitriol to your own thread. The rest of us get tired of you slandering people without evidence.
Pro tip: Don't ever move to Britain. They would eat your sort alive in slander suits.
(https://cdn-bio.qrz.com/r/wo7r/Larry_Renfest_Headshot_tif_0.jpg)
BBBWWWAAAAAHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
I put little lord fauntleroy on Ignore long ago as nothing he has to say deserves my reply. That is until you quoted some of his worthless drivel, and now I can't unsee that.
What a way to start the day. Thanks a whole lot.
NØUN
Not really my problem, is it?Then why comment?
Basic terrain analysis was available back in the early 90s by Brian Beesley.Because I didn't know what that was. I'd only been active on HF for four years at that point and I had never heard of HFTA. And boy you really seem to be fixated on how much money someone else paid for their station. You may want to seek treatment for that. You want to know the real price of my HF station? The loss of my mother. I had a bit left over after inheriting my parents' meagre life savings to put a small down payment on my house and buy some radio gear and a used Honda. I'd far prefer to be using my old Kenwood POS and still be able to visit my mom every week. Trust me on this.
Zev appears to not have any problems. When he was running from your station, he was posting that many juicy mults called in.Zev's an amazing CW op. I'm not. I work the same mults (usually) if I'm in the chair. But next time you see him ask him how difficult it is to operate SSB from here. He's also never here at night, when I'm getting slaughtered on 40 and 80. My best-ever SSB Friday night was 250-275 QSOs from start until I go to bed at 2. More typically it's 100-150. Yes, it's really that bad.
Why should I?One word: empathy. Maybe, just maybe you'll understand what it's like to be in someone else's less-comfortable shoes. There aren't a lot of places on mountain-tops within an hour of NYC (wife's career requirement at the time) that we could have afforded, and that came with a tower variance granted by the town in a county that doesn't generally allow anything over 35'. We have about 1/4 to 1/3 of an acre with lots of trees and plenty of space between our neighbours. Our quality of life here is fantastic. My radio situation is not, but I do what I can. Bouvet, Crozet, Scarborough, Heard, I got them all in my log and on different bands and modes, but most of those contacts were hard-fought slogfests, sometimes over several hours or days. In contests I regularly have loud stations CQing in my face when I call. So yeah, if you want to sit there from your optimized high ground and criticize be my guest; I can keep it up all day if you want. But humble yourself by working a major SSB contest from an inferior station someday, where 1500W still can't put certain mults in the log or get you though hundreds of big east coast blowtorches in PA and MA. There's a reason there are no massive M/M stations in NNJ or NLI.
...<snip>
I took care in finding it by looking at that terrain map, as well as noise and a location that was not close to other contesters.
Why would I want to drive 2 hours to a supposedly inferior QTH?
Simple. These days I value my down time more than I do BIC time struggling to work 1000 Hungarians, Italians and Germans for 48 hours straight, half of whom bust my call two or three times each. It's that simple. If my typical 1M to 1.5M isn't good enough for you then kick me out of the club. I'm sure YCCC will welcome my points.Also remember that I work from this same desk typically 60 to 80 hours a week, and there are some weekends I'm just so wiped out that I can't stomach the thought of sitting at my work desk for another two days straight.Again, not my problem. I work at a desk as well, which happens to be behind my operating desk.
There are plenty of other contesters that have smaller stations with other limitations and have spent far less do just as well, do not whine, and and do not have the excuses that you come up with.My griping is because I would like to be able to do better, but I simply cannot, and my body won't let me sit there for more hours the way it did in 2005 when I moved in here. It's soul-sucking to work 80 and 40 for hours and be lucky to work just the big guns. A simple tribander and 1500W behind a hill may be somewhat OK to work DX but to compete seriously with you, or Bud, or Chas? in CQWW? Not a prayer.
You have said on multiple occasions - as well as in this thread - that you'll do "whatever it takes" to work a new DX country, as well as pontificating to others to do the same. That must also include sitting at that desk for another two days after working 60-80 hours a week, because "DX IS."And that is 100% correct. I am a DXer first, last, and always. I got into contesting to work more DX and fill in new band slots and new modes. Then I joined a great club to get tips on how to work more DX and contribute my points to help the club. And while operating CQWW and ARRL-DX can have its moments of enjoyment, like when I can get a really good SSB run going, it's otherwise grueling and I don't enjoy it the way I once did. If there's a rare one on I won't be spending 48 (or even 30) hours in the chair trying to work him unless we're talking P5. Yes, DX IS. Contesting? Yeah, OK, maybe if I feel like it and we don't have friends and family obligations happening.
You think I haven't done that in the past? I got Crickets. I'm two hours north of Philly, I doubt anybody not local is willing to shlep up here with gas and tolls what they are. Believe me, I've asked in the past. I've now stopped asking.Like I said, I'll challenge anybody to come up here and sit in this chair for a few hours in CQWW or ARRL-DX, especially Friday night, and see how fun it is to have every big 1x2 and 2x1 east coast callsign beat you like a drum in every single mult pileup.
Why don't you put out an open call to have one or a few people who are antenna restricted, haven't spent $50,000 on their station, or otherwise would put in a lower score, operate your station?
Re-read what I wrote. 50k over 40 years, for everything, from 2m rigs in my old cars up to my current stuff. I dare anybody to buy and pay for the professional installation of a 70 foot crank-up tower, a (used) C31XR, a shorty-40, a WARC Yagi, a Green Heron box two Yaesu rotors, along with a second small tower for my 6m LFA, new Buryflex HF feedlines and hardline for 6m, a brand-new K3s and KPA1500, various pieces of test equipment and station accessories and not spend at least 30k, soup to nuts. The goal was to work my way to the top of the Honor Roll, and I'm three back from that. The goal was not to erect a contest grade station. A single tribander and an amp, in terms of DXing, is a simple station. No stacks here, no SO2R capabilities, no SDRs or skimmers. Just one radio, one amp, and one antenna for each band.Simple stations with high T/O angles just can't compete effectively with the big guns. I have trouble with the low-angle DX and outside of contests; a semi-rare one that would probably take you an a few minutes or half an hour to work often takes me many hours or I don't get through until the next day, even with about 1350-1400W. Now condense that to needed mults, and do it 300 times in the roughly 30 or so hours I can play. C'mon up and try it. It'll be fun!Simple stations cost far less than $50,000 PERIOD. You must be running QRP, since you stated previously that 1499.5 watts is "QRP."
No, at 77 I still have a very vivid imagination, Mr. Opinionated…you seem to have an argument for everything on these forums. And it’s always your way or the highway ;). Nothing to do with my imagination.
N0UN for the love of God please tell me how to get Fauntleroy on my ignore list.
Thank You Thank You Lordy Thank YouN0UN for the love of God please tell me how to get Fauntleroy on my ignore list.
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NØUN
Snowflakes are falling heavily today.Ham radio forums are like reading the news - they always blame the problem on someone else
Sounds like W2IRT and WO7R think they decide for everyone else how to think and what our values should be.Perhaps we are just sick and tired of the mid Twentieth Century status quo and all the holier-than-thou preaching that only the CW purists (who naturally passed their 20 WPM Extra exam in front of an FCC examiner, the way the good Lord intended) are worthy of recognition.
At 10,000 replies between the two of them, that should tell you all you need to know....
.
…I for one will do whatever I can to spread the word …
Sounds like W2IRT and WO7R think they decide for everyone else how to think and what our values should be.Perhaps we are just sick and tired of the mid Twentieth Century status quo and all the holier-than-thou preaching that only the CW purists (who naturally passed their 20 WPM Extra exam in front of an FCC examiner, the way the good Lord intended) are worthy of recognition.
At 10,000 replies between the two of them, that should tell you all you need to know....
I for one am bloody sick and tired of the Mode Wars (part MLVIII), the undisguised hatred for legal remote operation, and the "like-it-as-it-is-or-get-lost" attitude toward DXCC rules and award policies. These are issues that will either keep DXing going as a serious pursuit or relegate it to the same status as traffic handling, and I for one will do whatever I can to spread the word that change is both good and needed, and fight the FUD surrounding it. It's also fun living is other people's heads rent free :D
I would suggest to you that these dialogs now are not productive, just as those we had back then were unproductive.
How do you figure? It has nothing to do with "moral superiority" but rather trying to get a relatively small corner of the hobby that's steeped in some moldy, ancient traditions to fast-forward into modern realities, and also suggesting people use every tool in the shed to "further the radio art," to coin a phrase. The only "moral superiority" I would confess to here would be to get the message out that nobody has the right to impose their particular operating constraints on others, or denigrate them when they choose their X over your Y.…I for one will do whatever I can to spread the word …Interesting phrase.
I think this is the feigned moral superiority which antagonizes people.
I remember 9 years ago when I first got back into the hobby, I was building my own remote station because I didn't have space where I lived at the time. I was on the receiving end of quite a bit of abuse for it on here, not least of all from you, actually. It is strange now to be lectured about the benefits of a technology by someone who was so adamantly opposed back then.This is 100% true. I was vehemently opposed to remote operation for quite some time, especially before it was authorized by the DXCC program.
I was wrong.
I sat there and gave it a good think after the rules were amended and I couldn't find a single good reason why I was holding to that idea. It lets hams with no station of their own get on the air. The stations themselves have advanced the radio art. It's no different than driving up to Maine, putting my butt in a chair up there, and then driving back home. People drive or fly to M/M contest stations and it's welcomed. How is this different? So long as you identify with your callsign and the transmitter is in the country you're claiming to operate from it's a win-win. Plus (for some) there's a bit of a thrill top having a massive stack and a kW under their command
The hypocrisy is everywhere in this hobby
Let’s review - you are the only one (actually there are two of you who share this distinction) who is trying to subvert and twist what others are saying here such as your claim anyone is “imposing” operating modes. No one is or has tried to do that!How do you figure? It has nothing to do with "moral superiority" but rather trying to get a relatively small corner of the hobby that's steeped in some moldy, ancient traditions to fast-forward into modern realities, and also suggesting people use every tool in the shed to "further the radio art," to coin a phrase. The only "moral superiority" I would confess to here would be to get the message out that nobody has the right to impose their particular operating constraints on others, or denigrate them when they choose their X over your Y.…I for one will do whatever I can to spread the word …Interesting phrase.
I think this is the feigned moral superiority which antagonizes people.
The only moral superiority here is that we are better than DQRMers and KilocycleKops™.
You are not opposed to it now because it suits your needs now. A whole bunch of people on here have opposed it in the past but now that many of them have gone to live in HOA's, suddenly fine!Opposing it made sense when it wasn't yet approved for award credit. In that case it did give people an unfair advantage according to the rules. But a lot of it was also knee-jerk, and I'll freely admit that was how I felt at the time. But once they OK'd remoting I just asked myself what was really different than driving over to a buddy's place or up to a mountain top or whatnot, and ultimately concluded it wasn't. And it gives antenna-restricted hams access to the bands, etc. The question to ask is "will more people benefit by this new thing or be harmed by it?" In this case a few butt-hurt olde-time paper chasers vs a generation of old and new hams who have access to something they'd never dreamed possible.
This is 100% true. I was vehemently opposed to remote operation for quite some time, especially before it was authorized by the DXCC program.
I was wrong.
I sat there and gave it a good think after the rules were amended and I couldn't find a single good reason why I was holding to that idea.
You are not opposed to it now because it suits your needs now.
Oh cool - its a cat fight. Where's my popcorn. Now that Bouvet is history its the only show on TV...
You admitted on this forum that you made one QSO for WAZ via remote. I printed the rules on page 69, top message, of this topic. The rules clearly show the categories of traditional and remote WAZ awards. If you made even one contact using remote, then you fall into that category. So unless you applied for a remote WAZ award, you aren't following the rules.You are correct (although I did not see your original message). I have contacted Jose and requested the change to the Remote category. I honestly haven't checked on the 5B rules since I applied for the initial award in 2007. I had no idea things changed in 2015. I'll still finish it the traditional way someday.
Anyway some of you guys think this is a good way for getting new Hams into the hobby. My feeling is that some people might join, but most of them will get bored rather quickly and leave.
Anyway some of you guys think this is a good way for getting new Hams into the hobby. My feeling is that some people might join, but most of them will get bored rather quickly and leave.
I hope this is not perceived as an attack on FT8, because it isn't. Just a story.
I have a friend of mine who got licensed a decade ago but never really got into HF. Another friend and I recently convinced him to give it a try again and he's been busy with FT8, the obvious re-entry point. He's only been on the air a couple of weeks and he's up to 60 or 70 entities now. I asked him what he thought of FT8 today and he told me "it's kinda lame." His words, not mine. I think he's enjoying it but mildly. Late 30s newly active ham. He intimated to me earlier that he might have some interest in CW. Who knows, we're trying to encourage him to use whatever mode(s) he likes and hope something will stick.
By all means, use FT8 as an introduction to HF, and it your elmerees like it, great! I'm waiting to see if my elmeree sticks with it or branches out in another direction. I actually think FT8 might appeal more to the seasoned ham than the casual passer-by. But that's just an impression.
As I have state previously. The DXing thing died for me with FT8 sucking the blood out of 160 and 80. I only need P5 now Mixed and a couple on CW and SSB so bands are where its it. Ft8 could not be more boring. And unsatisfying personally, to me anyway. And if you think gamers will last long without sound, graphics, and action, you are kidding yourselves.
Its surprising that so few DXers don't look more at Contesting. Its truly where the fun is on HF in my opinion. I will be in ARRL DX Low Power this weekend. Probably do 3000+ Qs. I start from zero at 00Z tonight so even a G or EA on 160 or JA on 10 is a thrill. No boredom here.
Oh and there is virtually zero DQRM the whole weekend. They can't keep up with 1000 people CQing all at the same time. SO they go to 75M phone and bitch about it all weekend.
And there are quite a bit of young people hooked on it. And guess which mode they almost universally like best? CW!!!
Try it, you might like it. DXing is seriously yesterday for a lot of people. Whatever the mode is...
Ed N1UR
Try it, you might like it. DXing is seriously yesterday for a lot of people. Whatever the mode is...
Ed N1UR
This is precisely the type of generalization based on some uninformed supposition which makes these debates so silly.
The videogame generation should find FT8 very suitable, actually. Certainly, if we review the numbers, there's no sign of actual boredom.
Truth is, as often as not, FT8 is kind of addictive. It's a lot like eating popcorn. You say you're going to eat just that one handful and the next thing you know, the bowl is empty.
...
The numbers are brutal. FT8 is winning.
There will always be those who just can't adapt and remain mired in yesterday. That's pretty much their problem and takes care of itself as time moves on and the population turns over.
--- SNIP ---
Brian - K6BRN
There will always be those who just can't adapt and remain mired in yesterday. That's pretty much their problem and takes care of itself as time moves on and the population turns over.
The simple fact is that FT8 and newer digital modes are relevant and attractive to new and experienced hams alike.
Even most hardcore CW enthusiasts are sending "automated" code via (digital) keyboard, and if not that, use an electronic keyer. The days in which we could identify an operator by his/her "fist' is 99% gone. Times change. Life moves on.
The arguments regarding CW operators being a "higher grade" of ham
And that barrier, learning CW skills, required spending a great deal of time developing a skill that is more than a century old and just no longer relevant in the greater world, where digital modes and technologies ARE.
So - no need to throw rocks at digital modes.
And that's what a hobby is all about - enjoyment.
Brian - K6BRN
Every time I read phrases like “digital modes are attractive to new hams”, it’s clear anything written thereafter is just another frivolous rationalization.There will always be those who just can't adapt and remain mired in yesterday. That's pretty much their problem and takes care of itself as time moves on and the population turns over.
--- SNIP ---
Brian - K6BRN
Your logic is flawed!
We are in the horse and Buggy business in a world that has move onto Gas and Electric Cars. Our prime time passed and trying to put Lipstick on the Ham to make it compete with the Internet and Phone service is ridiculous.
My youngest son plays driving Games with kids in Sweden, Scotland and just about all over the world. They chat, laugh and curse each other during the Game and after the game they meet up in the game lounges and talk about what happened during the game.
Do you honestly think that 59 RR73 is going to interest him?
I can answer that for you. It's a 100% No!
It was like how my Father looked at my Grandfather when he use to insist on sending messages to his sisters abroad using Telegraph and my Father would keep telling him we had a phone.
The topic last night at the NCDXC meeting was, "Ham Radio is Dying... Or Is It?" Presented by the ARRL Pacific Division director.
I was not there but someone who was told me that ARRL did some surveys and found that the number of QSOs was up and satisfaction was down across the board. My friend's interpretation was that "everyone thinks the future is bleak." I would love to see those surveys for myself if anyone has them. I tried to find them on the ARRL website and failed.
There was an article in a 1929 issue of QST (and multiple occasions thereafter) saying the same thing that ham radio is dying.
This discussion about remote stations, dxcc changes, and FT8 belongs in other threads. This thread is about 3Y0J Bouvet. Which leads me to ask: Who are the Bouvet piggies?
Credit for what?This discussion about remote stations, dxcc changes, and FT8 belongs in other threads. This thread is about 3Y0J Bouvet. Which leads me to ask: Who are the Bouvet piggies?
We have one ehammer with 7 Q's I've seen. Got to give him credit he never took his foot of the gas (obviously).
NØUN
No need to throw rocks at CW, either. It's there, has been there for more than a century and will continue to be enjoyed for the forseeable future. And that's what a hobby is all about - enjoyment.
I think you're missing some observations here, Brian. For me (I can't speak for others), it's not a case that I "can't adapt" to FT8, and "mired in yesterday". That's an unfair assumption. No more than I can't adapt to banging my head against the wall ;). The fact is, I tried FT8, over and over again. Each time, I lasted about 15 minutes before being totally bored and flipped the big switch. Plain fact...I just don't enjoy it. What I do enjoy is communicating using my ears to actually *hear* the person I'm *talking* to, whether I'm decoding CW or vocally on SSB. But there is someone on here that says FT8 is "winning", and the "data" shows that it's now the most popular mode. So what? Does that mean that I should "adapt", scratch my fingernails on the blackboard, or jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it? I don't consider it a "problem" that I won't join in.
Frankly, I don't care how "relevant and attractive" FT8 is. It is not to me.
Yes, I use a keyboard in CW contests and an electronic keyer to send manually, for speed and clarity. But I'm still manually decoding what the other station is sending. Those *conveniences* have nothing to do with a comparison to FT8.
I don't regard the fact that I know Morse code and operate CW as being any "higher grade" of ham radio. I regard all those from Technician class on up to be a ham radio operator that enjoys whatever the hobby presents to them.
To me, as long as CW is a ham radio mode, I'll practice it whether it's deemed "relevant" or not. Because I enjoy it, and don't enjoy digital modes that don't require speakers or headphones...just staring at a computer screen and point-and-click. If I'm considered a dinosaur, so be it.
I'm not throwing rocks at (FT8) digital modes...operate whatever mode you like. I don't care, and don't think less of those that operate them. What I don't understand are those that say one should use it because it's the latest technology, and claim that it's a "problem" that I "can't adapt".
After all, isn't that what a hobby is all about - enjoyment ;)?
73, Bob K7JQ
Frankly, I don't care how "relevant and attractive" FT8 is. It is not to me.This is exactly the point I've been conveying myself these past few posts. Everybody has their own standards of achievements and that's great. Keep it at that, and operate whichever modes you like. So long as you operate courteously, legally, and if you chase paper, keep to the rules that's absolutely perfect.
I don't regard the fact that I know Morse code and operate CW as being any "higher grade" of ham radio.That's the problem, though. There are a great many who do precisely that. It's great to say "I'm not a fan of FT8," or whatever the thing is being questioned. But to call someone else's choices into question, to infer they're cheating because they use a certain mode or technology, or that they are just button-pushers with canned text messages is horseplucky, and I'll call 'em on it every time.
Your logic is flawed!
We are in the horse and Buggy business in a world that has move onto Gas and Electric Cars. Our prime time passed and trying to put Lipstick on the Ham to make it compete with the Internet and Phone service is ridiculous.
My youngest son plays driving Games with kids in Sweden, Scotland and just about all over the world. They chat, laugh and curse each other during the Game and after the game they meet up in the game lounges and talk about what happened during the game.
Do you honestly think that 59 RR73 is going to interest him?
I can answer that for you. It's a 100% No!
It was like how my Father looked at my Grandfather when he use to insist on sending messages to his sisters abroad using Telegraph and my Father would keep telling him we had a phone.
I was curious about the piggies question too. 90 callsigns and two others (sorry, EA0021SWL and FUFFNER) have posted on this thread. So this is a pretty hardcore but ultimately small audience.I did my part, but one for a new band was with a pirate, and the other didn't get in the log, but would have been an insurance dupe anyway. Technically the insurance dupe was the good one, the original one didn't get through.
(https://i.postimg.cc/R0Xv7x3Z/DX-Greenie-Piggie.png)
Still researching to see if we can tie that specific IP to any known Ham.
Suppose we can. What would your plan of action be?
Still researching to see if we can tie that specific IP to any known Ham.
Suppose we can. What would your plan of action be?
Collect $5 / €5 for each pirated Q, make a "donation" to a local, um, "contractor" in John's "regione"/town, for said "contractor" to remodel John's shack and antennas?
Who's he going to complain to the authorities? ;)
Can't IP addresses be faked?
3Y0J by WD5COV
https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-by-wd5cov/
Those first days on the island, no place for sissies.
Ok, I'll say it. Raise funds as per W1NK's cunning plan, and remodel "John", and ensure it never pirates again?
Still researching to see if we can tie that specific IP to any known Ham.
Suppose we can. What would your plan of action be?
I used automation to find out the details. I only counted slots worked, not QSOs, so this data doesn't capture dupes on the same band/mode.That's interesting!
Then there was the comment from the Team Leader who denied putting out the request for everyone who had worked 3Y0J once to refrain from working them on other bands/modes. We discussed that at some length here.
Frankly, I don't care how "relevant and attractive" FT8 is. It is not to me.This is exactly the point I've been conveying myself these past few posts. Everybody has their own standards of achievements and that's great. Keep it at that, and operate whichever modes you like. So long as you operate courteously, legally, and if you chase paper, keep to the rules that's absolutely perfect.
Frankly, I don't care how "relevant and attractive" FT8 is. It is not to me.This is exactly the point I've been conveying myself these past few posts. Everybody has their own standards of achievements and that's great. Keep it at that, and operate whichever modes you like. So long as you operate courteously, legally, and if you chase paper, keep to the rules that's absolutely perfect.
This. It would be nice if perhaps we kept the FT8/No FT8... Remote/No Remote back and forth out of all these DXpedition threads. Either keep it a separate thread to bash it out to your hearts content or you do your hobby the way you want and I'll do it the way I want.
This. It would be nice if perhaps we kept the FT8/No FT8... Remote/No Remote back and forth out of all these DXpedition threads. Either keep it a separate thread to bash it out to your hearts content or you do your hobby the way you want and I'll do it the way I want.
And we all know absolutely nothing results from all these debates yet here we are!This. It would be nice if perhaps we kept the FT8/No FT8... Remote/No Remote back and forth out of all these DXpedition threads. Either keep it a separate thread to bash it out to your hearts content or you do your hobby the way you want and I'll do it the way I want.
The modes of operation of a Dxpedition are a very relevant topic.
I know you would like it put in the closet but most of the serious DXers don't seem to agree with you.
This. It would be nice if perhaps we kept the FT8/No FT8... Remote/No Remote back and forth out of all these DXpedition threads. Either keep it a separate thread to bash it out to your hearts content or you do your hobby the way you want and I'll do it the way I want.
The modes of operation of a Dxpedition are a very relevant topic.
I know you would like it put in the closet but most of the serious DXers don't seem to agree with you.
The DXpedition is going to work whatever mode they want. They are putting the time, money and effort into the dxpedition - it's their choice. Not ours. Work them in the mode they choose, or not.All true!
No reason to have 30-40 pages in the dxpedition thread about why you like or dislike the mode. I think there are better places for that discussion. That's all.OK. Take out discussion of the mode, and what is left? We can all see what bands/modes they plan to operate from ADXO. We can all see what bands and modes they are actually operating from the cluster. We can all see the photos at Facebook and DX World. If this forum is not for discussing opinions and observations about given DXpeditions, what is it for exactly? Serious question!
If this forum is not for discussing opinions and observations about given DXpeditions, what is it for exactly? Serious question!
He's right. Open up a 'I hate FT8' thread and leave all that kind of stuff over there.
Few come here to actually discuss how to get into the log.
It can't have escaped anyone's notice that we used to have much livelier and broader discussions here, with a lot more participants, and we seem to have retreated into a rut. Would be nice to find some fresh grist.
So I am hearing from another ham that the reason they cut the DXpedition short by 7-10 days is because they ran out of Gas! They evidently had enough Diesel fuel to power a small town but only one drum of gas.
I get that they did not think they would be using these small generators but man that stings to know that this ended due to not having another 30 gallon drum or $100 worth of gas.
What could have been a 50,000+ QSO dxpedition. Wrong choice of extremely heavy (130kg) Hyundai 6KV diesel generators impacted this dxpedition.
Even with difficult landing they could have setup a few more stations and amplifiers with just verticals.
They should have gone with single small 2KV petrol generators per station (radio/amp).
Also someone forgot to pack some $50 usb NMEA GPS receivers for the FT8 clock sync.
John VK3YP
They should have checked the WWV one-minute time announcements against their PC clock display. This would have shown they were 15 seconds off.
They should have checked the WWV one-minute time announcements against their PC clock display. This would have shown they were 15 seconds off.
They simply should have installed/used JTSync.
Of course not syncing on the chaos 3Y0J caused themselves, people TXing on even and uneven but syncing on whatever other station on whatever band that was operating F/H.
Do it once a day to make certain one is syncing on EVEN and then - depending on the computer's clock drift - sync every 15' or 30' for the rest of the day.
JTSync is dead simple and above all accurate.
Considering the chaos 3Y0J caused by not having time correct was/is unforgivable for these so called experienced DXers.
Lets face it, the list of issues is very long. It starts with having one boat to carry in the supplies.
+1
We all know it all after the fact, don't we. ;D ;D ;D
IMHO for every single one "mistake" they did hundreds of things right.
Marvin VE3VEE
Lets face it, the list of issues is very long. It starts with having one boat to carry in the supplies.
They had 2 Zodiacs.
Sitting in the basement criticizing others for doing something without knowing the facts isn't a good idea.
Lets face it, the list of issues is very long. It starts with having one boat to carry in the supplies.
They had 2 Zodiacs.
Sitting in the basement criticizing others for doing something without knowing the facts isn't a good idea.
As far as I am told they had three Zodiacs but only one of them was the large one for carrying the Equipment. That is why when it got punctured the carrying of the generator got scrapped.
Lets face it, the list of issues is very long. It starts with having one boat to carry in the supplies.
They had 2 Zodiacs.
Sitting in the basement criticizing others for doing something without knowing the facts isn't a good idea.
As far as I am told they had three Zodiacs but only one of them was the large one for carrying the Equipment. That is why when it got punctured the carrying of the generator got scrapped.
And they made plenty a mistakes. Planning quite clearly as time went on has shown not to be their forte.
They simply should have installed/used JTSync. .....
Got it! Three Zodias isn't enough duplication. They should have had ####.
Some do... Others criticize.
They simply should have installed/used JTSync. .....
They didn't have access to an Internate NTP service to get them close to time sync. JTSync can be used to sync to the average or single window of received stations but it doesn't independently know which time window it is decoding. For example, if the PC clock has an error of 17 seconds the use of JTSYnc will reduce the error to 15 seconds but not to 0 seconds unless the user knew it was way off. They could have used WWV to get within one second of the actual time then used JTSync to reduce the residual error.
Got it! Three Zodias isn't enough duplication. They should have had ####.
Some do... Others criticize.
What about this is so hard for you to comprehend?
Let’s review -
They had 3, each of which is large enough but they apparently choose not to because of an earlier accident. Are you following?
I’ve hauled larger generators, engine and supplies ashore in smaller tenders. Are you following that?
You have gotten everything wrong in these pages back to the beginning. I am following that!
Got it! Three Zodias isn't enough duplication. They should have had ####.
Some do... Others criticize.
What about this is so hard for you to comprehend?
Let’s review -
They had 3, each of which is large enough but they apparently choose not to because of an earlier accident. Are you following?
I’ve hauled larger generators, engine and supplies ashore in smaller tenders. Are you following that?
You have gotten everything wrong in these pages back to the beginning. I am following that!
+1
We all know it all after the fact, don't we. ;D ;D ;D
IMHO for every single one "mistake" they did hundreds of things right.
Marvin VE3VEE
3Y0J = 18,846 Q's.
61% CW
27% FT8
12% SSB
Let’s review -
They had 3, each of which is large enough but they apparently choose not to because of an earlier accident. Are you following?
I’ve hauled larger generators, engine and supplies ashore in smaller tenders. Are you following that?
You have gotten everything wrong in these pages back to the beginning. I am following that!
Oh I get it, they had everything they needed to do the full Dxpedition but they chose make it a two radio no Amp or Beam Dxpedition and cut the time in half on purpose. Yeah that makes a lot of Sense ::) ::)
So, how does one get a QSL from this expedition?
Apart from tinkering with the FT8 transmit frequency, no other skill or operating finesse is required.
Paul, W9AC
3Y0J = 18,846 Q's.
61% CW
27% FT8
12% SSB
And now there's plenty of time for FT8 ops to learn CW for the next activation. Skills can be developed to attain a competitive edge over others that's missing from FT8.
FT8 ops have relished in a mode that evens the playing field. Well, they got it. Apart from tinkering with the FT8 transmit frequency, no other skill or operating finesse is required.
Paul, W9AC
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during a contest on CW. Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another. :D :) ;)
Credibility isn’t something you should seem eager to immediately destroy.
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during a contest on CW. Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another. :D :) ;)
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during a contest on CW. Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another. :D :) ;)
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during a contest on CW. Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another. :D :) ;)
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during a contest on CW. Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another. :D :) ;)
Oh really?
Your "5NN TU" is an invalid contest exchange.
I don't need a program to decode CW, TYVM. Do you? ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;) ;D ;) ;)
What direction would you turn your antenna to work V85RH on 40m at 2200Z?
And now there's plenty of time for FT8 ops to learn CW for the next activation. Skills can be developed to attain a competitive edge over others that's missing from FT8.
Apart from tinkering with the FT8 transmit frequency, no other skill or operating finesse is required.
Paul, W9AC
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during a contest on CW. Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another. :D :) ;)
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during a contest on CW. Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another. :D :) ;)
Oh really?
Your "5NN TU" is an invalid contest exchange.
I don't need a program to decode CW, TYVM. Do you? ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;) ;D ;) ;)
What direction would you turn your antenna to work V85RH on 40m at 2200Z?
My 40m antenna is a 40/75 Windom so there is nothing to turn.
Telling you call it a 75m windom.
My 40m antenna is a 40/75 Windom so there is nothing to turn.
Telling you call it a 75m windom.
My 40m antenna is a 40/75 Windom so there is nothing to turn.
From which store did you buy it?
I think it’s adorable that you think everyone here doesn’t already know that.
Windom is another term for an off center feed dipole(OCFD)
Bwahahahahaha!
Maybe those diesel generators (and an amp or two) are at the bottom of the sea?
They kind of remind me of some of the kids I knew in college that were very proud of pulling all nighters before the final exam because they hadn't studied enough prior. If they had, they wouldn't have needed to pull the all nighter.
Because we didn't have the right Zodiac - equipment balance, we got in trouble fast. But we recovered and got 3Y0J on the air. Which they did, but it doesn't mean it was a success. It just wasn't a total failure like the 2 attempts before. Somewhat of a low bar given the $750,000 raised and the grand plans promoted.
I don't think their reception is going to be as good as they think it will be doing the DX gathering circuit. There will be A LOT of questions after the usual - glad you made some Qs and everyone stayed safe....but....
Ed N1UR
The general DXing community was not blessed with 2-3 contacts, they got none and from what I am hearing they are very angry.
I already know that the reception is not going to be good. A few deluded individuals are using the posts on eHam as some kind of gauge. This section of eHam is full of people with good stations, yet they are still surprisingly out of the loop as to what is really going on.
The general DXing community was not blessed with 2-3 contacts, they got none and from what I am hearing they are very angry.
I see once again see that as you said, those who know, know and those who don't know will never know.
73s
Sure, with today's technology...spotting clusters, CW decoders, and macro memories...you can pretty much "game the system" on CW. And you're not breaking any contest rules. But while clusters and transmit memories have become embedded in contest logging programs, and commonplace in contests (for rate speed and convenience), I'll bet you that there's a miniscule percentage of CW operators that use decoders to copy the various contest exchanges required. Try using one in Sweepstakes ;). You still have to know Morse code...an acquired skill.
Only 4 days until we reach Cape Town! I only wish we had popcorn here at Marama I could enjoy while reading eham ha ha
I am open for any serious an well thought questions. I am not going anywhere in 4 days, so have plenty of time answering what we succeeded with, and what we did not.
Congrats to those who made it in the log!
73 from South Atlantic Ocean
BTW, I know you are HOA limited, but still a nice score in the contest.
Only 4 days until we reach Cape Town! I only wish we had popcorn here at Marama I could enjoy while reading eham ha ha
I am open for any serious an well thought questions. I am not going anywhere in 4 days, so have plenty of time answering what we succeeded with, and what we did not.
Congrats to those who made it in the log!
73 from South Atlantic Ocean
Only 4 days until we reach Cape Town! I only wish we had popcorn here at Marama I could enjoy while reading eham ha ha
Only 4 days until we reach Cape Town! I only wish we had popcorn here at Marama I could enjoy while reading eham ha ha
I am open for any serious an well thought questions. I am not going anywhere in 4 days, so have plenty of time answering what we succeeded with, and what we did not.
Congrats to those who made it in the log!
73 from South Atlantic Ocean
I am open for any serious an well thought questions. I am not going anywhere in 4 days, so have plenty of time answering what we succeeded with, and what we did not.
"Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during a contest on CW. Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another."
Why not give that a shot sometime and let us know how it works out for you :-)
John K5MO
Apart from tinkering with the FT8 transmit frequency, no other skill or operating finesse is required.
Paul, W9AC
Manual dexterity is required to point-and-click with the mouse. Does that count as “skill/finesse” ::)?
Only 4 days until we reach Cape Town! I only wish we had popcorn here at Marama I could enjoy while reading eham ha ha
I am open for any serious an well thought questions. I am not going anywhere in 4 days, so have plenty of time answering what we succeeded with, and what we did not.
Congrats to those who made it in the log!
73 from South Atlantic Ocean
What direction would you turn your antenna to work V85RH on 40m at 2200Z?I wouldn't have known until 2200z on Sunday. Thank you for that tip, incidentally. Greatly appreciated.
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during a contest on CW. Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another.I've yet to see a CW Decoder that's more than "very casual" help, at best. I love operating CW, but I cannot run in that mode. I can do assisted S/P pretty and scour mults really well by ear but couldn't run in a DX CW contest if my life depended on it. That skill is the difference between great CW ops and guys like me. I freely admit my code sucks and will always suck, but it's just so enjoyable to do, even knowing my skill limits.