eHam

eHam Forums => DXing => Topic started by: N0UN on January 07, 2023, 05:27:13 PM

Title: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 07, 2023, 05:27:13 PM
7 Days away from departure! I'm getting stoked! What have you done to ready your station?

From DXNews.com (https://dxnews.com/3y0j/):

"The captain estimates the trip to Bouvet could take 11-14 days. If the team departs on January 14th, they will look to arrive sometime between January 25-28th. Probably they will spend a few days in total to go ashore and set up camp / operating area. Worst case scenario, they may have to wait one week before attempting to disembark. So, in theory, at the moment they hope to begin operations sometime between January 27th and February 4th.

LA7GIA/3Y0J."

3Y0J Website (https://www.3y0j.no/)
Real Time Bouvet Winds & Temperatures (https://www.windy.com/-54.421/3.359?-54.784,3.359,8)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on January 07, 2023, 06:09:14 PM

 Two outta three ain't bad.

 (https://i.ibb.co/d5b7ZPH/Capture.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)


                            Tom KH0/KC0W
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on January 07, 2023, 06:57:32 PM
Getting close! I have a couple of wire antennas I am working on in case I need a little more gain over the dipole I have - gotta build a balun this weekend and do some more testing. I'm guessing some big pileups to crack!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on January 07, 2023, 07:32:31 PM

 Two outta three ain't bad.

 (https://i.ibb.co/d5b7ZPH/Capture.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)


                            Tom KH0/KC0W
Just #2 to work, with a bit of luck, and that's 3/3.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on January 07, 2023, 08:31:50 PM
I know a lot of us are going to be stoked to get Bouvet in the log. The pileups will be fierce but I think I should be able to work them considering Crozet was a good test run. LP will be the way to go.

John K7KB
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on January 07, 2023, 08:37:55 PM
I know a lot of us are going to be stoked to get Bouvet in the log. The pileups will be fierce but I think I should be able to work them considering Crozet was a good test run. LP will be the way to go.

John K7KB
My station is ready. Crozet was a good test run.
Looking forward to Bouvet. At least the continent of Africa isn't in my way, like it is for Congo! The only obstacle will be the southern Auroral zone. Sure hope this team actually makes it!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on January 08, 2023, 04:37:07 AM
Which is it?  The pileups are going to be fierce?  Or, it will be easy to work on CW and especially SSB because hardly anyone uses those caveman modes any more.....

Lets all get our story straight.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on January 08, 2023, 04:49:46 AM
 Those will all be easy. The tough ones will be 80 meters EME and 2 meters SSTV.

                    Tom KH0/KC0W
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on January 08, 2023, 06:58:56 AM
Which is it?  The pileups are going to be fierce?  Or, it will be easy to work on CW and especially SSB because hardly anyone uses those caveman modes any more.....

Lets all get our story straight.

Ed  N1UR

The good ops will find it easy. The not so good ones,  not so easy. Any other questions?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on January 08, 2023, 08:04:21 AM
Here are short-path bearings over Bouvet's topography from Cape Fie to various NA locations:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hccJFCGztkU/YRG2vkMU3fI/AAAAAAAAIa4/7olXXKeJM2sH0u6ubOo5qUTCkoYvnQ-rwCLcBGAsYHQ/s16000/bouvet.jpg)

I will be interested in seeing how the topography affects propagation.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 08, 2023, 08:19:25 AM
Here are short-path bearings over Bouvet's topography from Cape Fie to various NA locations:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hccJFCGztkU/YRG2vkMU3fI/AAAAAAAAIa4/7olXXKeJM2sH0u6ubOo5qUTCkoYvnQ-rwCLcBGAsYHQ/s16000/bouvet.jpg)

I will be interested in seeing how the topography affects propagation.

73 Rich KB8GAE

Agreed. I'll be looking Longpath (over Asia) first.  Just like Kerguelen a few years ago...

Kerguelen Over The Longpath (https://www.n0un.net/repost-ft4xu-kerguelen-on-the-air/)

Great map by AE5X!

N0UN

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on January 08, 2023, 10:41:17 AM
Which is it?  The pileups are going to be fierce?  Or, it will be easy to work on CW and especially SSB because hardly anyone uses those caveman modes any more.....

Lets all get our story straight.

Ed  N1UR


Was I speaking to you? No, I dont think so. Why do you take anything anyone says and make a derogatory statement about it? I was just making a general statement about the pileups, not trying to make it into another FT8 vs. CW/SSB debate.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on January 08, 2023, 11:51:21 AM
Here are short-path bearings over Bouvet's topography from Cape Fie to various NA locations:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hccJFCGztkU/YRG2vkMU3fI/AAAAAAAAIa4/7olXXKeJM2sH0u6ubOo5qUTCkoYvnQ-rwCLcBGAsYHQ/s16000/bouvet.jpg)

Looks like W1, W2 should be interesting... right over the peak  ::)

I will be interested in seeing how the topography affects propagation.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on January 08, 2023, 11:07:37 PM
The level of difficulty will also be affected by how complete their planned set up ends up being as their plan is to my mind very optimistic.

Anyway, as Wayne says, excitement is building as they are on the way to London right now to rendezvous then fly to the Falklands for their sailing this Saturday.

Hope they brought their meclizine !

 https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-2023/
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE4KY on January 12, 2023, 08:36:57 AM
All the best to this team.

Everything visible online and elsewhere indicate a team that has dug deep into the details. Hope they're blessed with safe travels.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on January 12, 2023, 10:16:06 AM
Agreed. I'll be looking Longpath (over Asia) first.  Just like Kerguelen a few years ago...

Kerguelen Over The Longpath (https://www.n0un.net/repost-ft4xu-kerguelen-on-the-air/)

Great map by AE5X!

N0UN

LOL that is not all that encouraging  ;D
I assume that was at peak time etc.
If you were having that hard of a time reading him then it says a lot.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 12, 2023, 09:56:32 PM
Track the 3Y0J Team via GPS:  Track 3Y0J (https://share.garmin.com/3y0j)

N0UN


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 12, 2023, 09:58:44 PM
Agreed. I'll be looking Longpath (over Asia) first.  Just like Kerguelen a few years ago...

Kerguelen Over The Longpath (https://www.n0un.net/repost-ft4xu-kerguelen-on-the-air/)

Great map by AE5X!

N0UN

LOL that is not all that encouraging  ;D
I assume that was at peak time etc.
If you were having that hard of a time reading him then it says a lot.

He was running 50 watts to some kind of shoulder high antenna, on a battery he was carrying!

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 12, 2023, 10:51:13 PM
I'm seeing the distance between Stanley (Port Stanley, Falklands) and Bouvet is just under 4,000 km. That is 2,500 miles.

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/3y0j.png)

But in a post by Adrian Ciuperca, KO8SCA on the "On All Bands" Website he says it's 1,553 miles - LINK (https://www.onallbands.com/3y0j-a-dxpedition-to-the-most-remote-uninhabited-island-on-earth/).

"The 2,500 Km (1,553 mile) journey to and from Bouvet, from the starting point of Port Stanley in the Falkland Islands to 54° south latitude where Bouvet Island is located, means a journey totaling 45 days of sailing in one of the most frigid and whirling waters of the South Atlantic Ocean."

That's a BIG 1,000 mile (between 4 & 6 days each way) difference!

What am I missing here?

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on January 13, 2023, 05:41:57 AM





That's a BIG 1,000 mile (between 4 & 6 days each way) difference!

What am I missing here?

N0UN
The prevailing wind and current effects on speed over the ground. Sailing downwind is different than upwind
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4UFO on January 13, 2023, 08:02:37 AM
is just under 4,000 km. That is 2,500 miles.

"The 2,500 Km (1,553 mile) journey

What am I missing here?

I'd guess he got the number of 2500 miles confused with km and then did his own math to come up with a 'new' miles figure.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 13, 2023, 09:54:17 AM
is just under 4,000 km. That is 2,500 miles.

"The 2,500 Km (1,553 mile) journey

What am I missing here?

I'd guess he got the number of 2500 miles confused with km and then did his own math to come up with a 'new' miles figure.

"east bound and down"

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on January 14, 2023, 07:07:53 AM
These pileups will be __________(fill in the blanks)  :) or  ;D or   :(

Split instructions from 3Y0J:

CW MAX 15 kHz split (operators chose QRG within a certain bandwidth)

SSB MAX 30 kHz split (operators chose QRG within a certain bandwidth)

Lowest 10 kHz spectrum on regular bands NO TX  to allow regular DX traffic

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on January 14, 2023, 08:24:38 AM
Latest from their Facebook page:

3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
“We have refuelled the IBC tanks and are now proceeding with loading the vessel after having stayed anchored through the night and morning. Loading will continue through saturday and sunday. Unfortunately we have some freight stuck in London. This contain some electronics, important sailing and climbing gear we need at Bouvet. We don't know if the gear will arrive on the next flight to Stanley. Our departure will be slightly delayed until Monday. We will decide monday morning local time when we depart. Plan is to depart on monday local time if weather is good. What is holding us up now is the missing sailing and climbing gear. In meantime we will complete loading so we're ready monday. All well here in Stanley we had time for 90 min sightseeing and last minute personal shopping.
73 Ken”



Seems like the smart thing to do would be to ship all the important chit to the port several weeks ago. Assuming everything gets shipped safe and on time is assuming an awful lot.

Gino - KE8KMX
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 14, 2023, 08:21:29 PM
I believe the original plan was to depart on the 13th so if they depart Monday, that's 3 days later than the original plan.

I wouldn't think they can make up time on the high seas so either they will have to shorten their operating time or extend the DXpedition.  We can only speculate at this time.  There's a lot of moving pieces to this DXpedition.

I have been reading and rereading their plans:  3Y0J Band, Radio, Antenna, Mode Plan (https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan)

I like the fact they are concentrating on "human modes". Some folks may get tweaked they are only going to run 100 watts on all FT8 stations.  I don't blame them, 13 second key-down transmit times are rough on amplifiers and generators.

Let's hope they succeed on the sailboat - TWO other Groups have tried and been oh so close, yet had to turn away...

N0UN


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on January 15, 2023, 07:00:27 AM
"It’s been confirmed by LA7GIA that no /MM activity will take place during the voyage to Bouvet. "
From dx-world.net
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on January 15, 2023, 07:43:35 AM
These pileups will be __________(fill in the blanks)  :) or  ;D or   :(

Split instructions from 3Y0J:

CW MAX 15 kHz split (operators chose QRG within a certain bandwidth)

SSB MAX 30 kHz split (operators chose QRG within a certain bandwidth)

Lowest 10 kHz spectrum on regular bands NO TX  to allow regular DX traffic

While the width of a pileup may seem intimidating to some, keep in mind they are listening on only one frequency, not the entire spread.

The only thing which matters is your ability to identify that one frequency.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on January 15, 2023, 08:13:02 AM
And the next one that they will be listening on next.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on January 15, 2023, 08:46:47 AM
Facebook update:

3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update: We would like to answer a couple of very good questions from the comments.
Q: Will there be log updates while on Bouvet?
A: We will use BGAN on Bouvet for daily upload. This will be on the ClubLog and M0OXO websites. The BGAN (Broadband Global Area Network) is a global satellite network with telephony owned by Inmarsat using portable terminals.
Q: What is the reason for no /MM operation?
A: We will not be setting up antennas for /MM operation. For safety reasons we are not allowed to walk on deck whenever we want. During sailing we will stay in the aft part of the sailboat. There is a nice view from there.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on January 15, 2023, 09:08:31 AM
They also have starlink and have been using it in Falklands, But are unsure if it will work on 3Y



Facebook update:

3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update: We would like to answer a couple of very good questions from the comments.
Q: Will there be log updates while on Bouvet?
A: We will use BGAN on Bouvet for daily upload. This will be on the ClubLog and M0OXO websites. The BGAN (Broadband Global Area Network) is a global satellite network with telephony owned by Inmarsat using portable terminals.
Q: What is the reason for no /MM operation?
A: We will not be setting up antennas for /MM operation. For safety reasons we are not allowed to walk on deck whenever we want. During sailing we will stay in the aft part of the sailboat. There is a nice view from there.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on January 15, 2023, 09:51:08 AM
And the next one that they will be listening on next.

Ed  N1UR
Absolutely! Anticipation is essential unless you want to waste time, electricity and patience. Follow their pattern. Every operator has one.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on January 16, 2023, 04:13:54 PM
Looks like the team is departing tomorrow morning from Port Stanley. I hope they have a safe and uneventful sail to Bouvet.

A comment posted by Thierry just the other day said about winds on Crozet, "ever since I have been on the island, there has not been a single day without wind, varying from 30 KMH to gusts of 140 KMH. And this is summer time in the southern hemisphere !"

Crozet is at 46 degrees South in the roaring 40s; Bouvet is further South at 54 degrees in the furious fifties.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0IZ on January 16, 2023, 06:00:09 PM
Just worked VP8/SQ1SGB from Kansas City, 20M SSB 500W to dipole.  0140  weak but doable.  Hopefully that suggests some ability to work Bouvet.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on January 17, 2023, 06:23:56 AM
i was jsut going through the 3y0j site and realized the 100w ft8 thing. then i thought hmm ken always gets me in the log cezar always gets me in the log adrian always gets me in the log im pretty sure i will get there in cw or ssb it going to be lot of fun.
I would seriously love to work them but just hearing them would leave me satisfied i have a very high noise floor here so fingers crossed
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on January 17, 2023, 12:15:20 PM
1900z: The tracker now shows the sailboat about 10 miles east of the Falklands....they are on their way.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 17, 2023, 12:32:49 PM
1900z: The tracker now shows the sailboat about 10 miles east of the Falklands....they are on their way.

Kinda' neat to track the vessel on GPS: Track 3Y0J (https://share.garmin.com/3y0j)

Also watching the real time winds they can expect:  Bouvet on Windy (https://www.windy.com/-54.421/3.359?-54.784,3.359,8)

I'm not a mariner but I wonder with so much gear, fuel and Hams, I suspect it'll ride the waves much lower than normal. I remember the "powered" Atlantic Tuna was cooking along at maybe 7 knots I think it was.  I'm curious to see if the put the sails up, lean and "cut the prevailing winds" like you see on TV.

I actually held a ruler up to my screen to try and figure the scaled distance of how far they've made it since departing, lol.

5 knots - 5.75 MPH
7 knots = 8.05 MPH
9 knots = 10.36 MPH
Port Stanley to Bouvet = 2,500 Miles.

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W4AMP on January 17, 2023, 04:26:55 PM
Underway!

(https://i.ibb.co/n7Q6x5M/Firefox-Screenshot-2023-01-18-T00-19-37-211-Z.jpg)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on January 18, 2023, 12:26:13 AM
 Looks like the team will have plenty of time to get to know each other.

 (https://i.ibb.co/Tg4hmKq/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FD57gsq)

                                              Tom KH0/KC0W   
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on January 18, 2023, 05:10:13 AM
In an interview one of the team said 10 to 14 days to arrival. Their "contracted period on the island is 22 days."
Looks like the team will have plenty of time to get to know each other.

 (https://i.ibb.co/Tg4hmKq/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FD57gsq)

                                              Tom KH0/KC0W
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on January 18, 2023, 12:27:02 PM
Looks like the team will have plenty of time to get to know each other.

 (https://i.ibb.co/Tg4hmKq/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FD57gsq)

                                              Tom KH0/KC0W

That's for sure. I keep looking at the Garmin map and almost seems they have come to a halt as the distance keeps looking about the same from Port Stanley. Probably just me and my own optical illusion :)

John K7KB
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on January 18, 2023, 04:35:56 PM
I just read an update from the team that they are only doing 7 knots right now, trying to keep behind a storm system. So I didn't imagine they had almost come to a stop :) At that pace, they would reach Bouvet in about 13 days so I hope they can kick in the afterburners sometime during the trip.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 18, 2023, 08:48:58 PM
I just read an update from the team that they are only doing 7 knots right now, trying to keep behind a storm system. So I didn't imagine they had almost come to a stop :) At that pace, they would reach Bouvet in about 13 days so I hope they can kick in the afterburners sometime during the trip.

Exactly as you stated. Storms over South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands...

N0UN

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Screenshot-2023-01-18-213331.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE4KY on January 19, 2023, 03:41:41 AM
Another companion site to go with Wayne's posting.... Windy:waves

Not only follow the weather, follow the sea forecast.

https://www.windy.com/-Waves-waves?waves,-57.017,-54.844,4 (https://www.windy.com/-Waves-waves?waves,-57.017,-54.844,4)

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on January 19, 2023, 09:58:15 AM
I must be looking at the tracker incorrectly. When I see the dots it looks like they are there already? What am I seeing when I click the SHOW ALL TRACKs button? What are the flags?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on January 19, 2023, 12:40:12 PM
I must be looking at the tracker incorrectly. When I see the dots it looks like they are there already? What am I seeing when I click the SHOW ALL TRACKs button? What are the flags?

Zoom out a bit and you'll see Bouvet come into view SSW from the cape of South Africa.  The ship is unfortunately tagged "3Y0J Bouvet" which makes it appear to be the island itself.


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on January 19, 2023, 12:48:07 PM
Ha Ha Ha. What an idiot I am!!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 19, 2023, 09:32:57 PM
From Steve N2AJ and the Bouvet Facebook Page:

3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:

Based on the popularity of our previous Question & Answer update I am going to include it again today after some news.

The Marama continues to make steady progress towards Bouvet. The boat’s speed has been anywhere from 7-9 mph. Unfortunately they are no longer receiving Starlink internet service and they don’t know if or when they will be able to receive it again during travel. We still have two other means of communication with the team including the Icom Satellite Radios. Cezar gave me an update on the team’s condition two days ago. He wrote again yesterday and told me it’s about the same. Most of the team is still feeling the effects of seasickness despite having taken various medicines for it. Only Peter and Cezar did not take the medicine and therefore don’t have the dizziness that seems to be associated with taking it. Bill, Axel, and Mike seem to suffer the least. The rest prefer to lay down rather than eat dinner. We are hoping that the situation improves over the next couple of days so the rest of the voyage will be more pleasant for the entire team.

Question & Answers

Q:  On FT8 mode will 3Y0J be F/H or MSHV?
A: FT8 operation will always be F/H with no exceptions.

Q: Why isn't the Marama broadcasting it's position via AIS?  I thought ALL vessels had to do that like airplanes.
A: “The terrestrial-AIS-based MarineTraffic system does not cover 100% of the world's seas, but only specific coastal areas where a land-based AIS receiver is installed. Wider areas are covered with the addition of Satellite-AIS.
More info: https://help.marinetraffic.com/hc/en-us/articles/203990958-Why-cannot-I-see-a-vessel-on-the-Live-Map- (https://help.marinetraffic.com/hc/en-us/articles/203990958-Why-cannot-I-see-a-vessel-on-the-Live-Map-)
Note: The best way to track the 3Y0J Team is going to be using this garmin GPS link.
share.garmin.com/3Y0J (http://share.garmin.com/3Y0J)

Q: Why did Marama sail to Bouvet from the Falkland Islands instead of South Africa which is much closer to Bouvet?
A: Marama is a sailboat. It uses the wind for propulsion when it can. This saves diesel fuel. The prevailing winds always blow from West to East. Bouvet is to the East of the Falkland Islands. So it makes sense to sail with the wind at your back as opposed to sailing into the wind.

An Appeal To All To Support 3Y0J:

The last item I would like to discuss with you today is making a donation to 3Y0J if you have not done so already, or making an additional donation if you have donated before, or ordering some 3Y0J Official Merchandise from one our 3Y0J Official Merchandise Suppliers. Why is this important? Because every donation you make, and every piece of merchandise you buy, helps to fund this DXpedition. Maybe you’re thinking that 3Y0J has already achieved their fundraising goal of $815,000. That’s true, but the additional funds that come in now will help to reimburse the 3Y0J Team Members for the $25,000 they each paid just to be part of the 3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition. Look what this team is going through to try to give us an All Time New One, a new mode, or a new band. Let’s all show them that we appreciate what they are going through for us. And besides, 3Y0J Official Gear is what you want to be wearing, or drinking your coffee from, when you work Bouvet for that ATNO. I’ve got the 3Y0J beenie hat, the tee shirt, and the 15oz corporate sponsors coffee mug. Thank you for your consideration.

Individual Donation Page:
https://www.3y0j.no/individualdonors (https://www.3y0j.no/individualdonors)

Bouvet 2023 Official Merchandise:
https://www.bonfire.com/store/bouvet-dxpedition-2023/ (https://www.bonfire.com/store/bouvet-dxpedition-2023/)

Bouvet 2023 Official Merchandise:
SQ1K Bart’s Shop on EBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175501912851 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/175501912851)
Check out his other 3Y0J items too.

73, Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 19, 2023, 09:56:43 PM
The difference between 7 & 9 MPH (roughly 6 and 8 knots) is 3 1/2 days at sea. 15 days versus 11.5 days of travel.

Some Hams have stated Thierry and his operation (FT8WW) are "heroic".  An "unbelievable" personal sacrifice to activate #3 DXCC Most Wanted. Some are calling for him to be nominated for "DXpedition of The Year".

Think about that for awhile while you're trying to get your head around what this dozen DXpeditioners are going through - in just the last few days.

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on January 20, 2023, 04:16:57 AM
Looking at the wave forecasts, the captain has done a nice job of keeping seas to a minimum for them so far - only 6 - 9ft waves.  But there are A LOT of 12 - 18 ft wave areas out there and they are quickly going to have to make some comfort vs "get there" decisions as to how long it takes them.  This trip could easily extend to 15 days depending on those decisions.

They really are paying the price right now for the sailboat decision.  Not questioning it, just saying they are paying the comfort price. 

I was surprised how little gear they actually had in the pictures.  Contrast that to the failed helicopter ship attempt.  Its quite striking.

Kudos to this team.  They are not faint hearted, I will give them that.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE4KY on January 20, 2023, 05:46:17 AM

Some Hams have stated Thierry and his operation (FT8WW) are "heroic".  An "unbelievable" personal sacrifice to activate #3 DXCC Most Wanted. Some are calling for him to be nominated for "DXpedition of The Year".

Think about that for awhile while you're trying to get your head around what this dozen DXpeditioners are going through - in just the last few days.

N0UN

+1

The parameters of activating Crozet are much different than Bouvet, almost the difference between night and day.

With all hope, the 3Y0J team will be ashore and making contacts in the weeks ahead. With success, 3Y0J will truly be the DX-pedition of the year.... no question!

Glenn KE4KY
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on January 20, 2023, 09:32:15 AM
Well, nobody is shooting an enemy while facing withering fire from a machine gun nest.

So, by that standard, no DXpedition is "heroic".

But if we go by the definition of "heroic" that means "excruciatingly large effort" then any of these rare places qualify.  One just has different kinds of "heroic" things to do.

There are several distinct classes of challenge and for the really rare ones, they take years and often large sums of money to overcome:

1.  Political problems.  This is actually #1.  It turns out that we can activate places like Heard that have minimal political problems.  Those are mostly a problem of logistics and money.  If the money wasn't so great, we'd see places like this done about once a year, even given how "heroic" these expeditions are in terms of logistics.  Examples of political problems are basically of two classes:  a) dictators who prohibit amateur radio, b) environmental restrictions.  The latter is getting to be more and more widespread, unfortunately for us.  There are commercial flights to P5; P5 would be about as hard as Aruba if the political process was more, um, conventional.  Yet, does anyone doubt that the few P5 activations were anything but "heroic"?  It seems to take years to wheedle permissions here.

2.  Money problems.  Some of these places (see Heard for instance) are mostly about very large sums of money, though they also invoke #3.

3.  Logistical problems. A lot of places are basically uninhabited or uninhabited enough to require serious logistics to activate.  Everything has to come with the team from radios to food to fuel to underwear.  However, some of these are "relatively" cheap.  As I recall, S9 has a regular boat that comes to the islands every two or four weeks.  Whether I remember that right, there are places like that.  I think Pitcairn is another such.  But the logistics are still formidable even for those.  There is often "staging" where a lot of gear, possibly from multiple locations, have to be shipped to some nearby staging area, and reliably stored until the team gets there to double-check that it is all there before loading the actual ship (or, rarely, puddle hopping charter plane) to make the final miles to the target.

Anything really rare -- especially those that seem to turn up once in 20 years or even longer, has at least one of these categories and it takes lengthy, often expensive work to overcome them.  So, yeah, any of these are "heroic" in the sense of "serious effort invested."

Crozet is really about #1 in the end, maybe a bit of #3.  But, as P5 shows, that doesn't mean the effort to activate it is any less "heroic".  We probably have yet to hear about all the restrictions (some probably last minute) that were imposed on this one.

I wouldn't be surprised that when we get the whole story (translated from the original French) that we'll find that having any QSOs was much closer to not happening at all than we now know.  I would be very surprised if we found out it was as easy as going to Aruba.  Because on the record we have, it isn't.  Not this trip, not any trip.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on January 20, 2023, 10:00:38 AM
Well, nobody is shooting an enemy while facing withering fire from a machine gun nest.

So, by that standard, no DXpedition is "heroic".

But if we go by the definition of "heroic" that means "excruciatingly large effort" then any of these rare places qualify.  One just has different kinds of "heroic" things to do.
.....Yabba Yabba Yabba
Let me educate you like your a 5 year old... Yabba Yabba...

One Novel Later.....
73s
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/somebody-please.jpg)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: US5WE on January 20, 2023, 10:53:57 AM
Well, nobody is shooting an enemy while facing withering fire from a machine gun nest.

So, by that standard, no DXpedition is "heroic".

But if we go by the definition of "heroic" that means "excruciatingly large effort" then any of these rare places qualify.  One just has different kinds of "heroic" things to do.

There are several distinct classes of challenge and for the really rare ones, they take years and often large sums of money to overcome:
The term "heroic" is not a proper one. The exceptions are, of course, K7LMU and ZL2AMJ lost at sea and shoot away Spratly team. These folks died for Ham Radio, they are heroes.
There's a fundamental difference between large multinational DXPeditions and one man efforts. Having this in mind one can talk in terms of "The Best One Man DXPedition of The Year" and there are only two candidates: F6CUK/FT8WW and prof. David Pommerenke 7O/DL7ZM whose 6m Yemen activation has delighted the 50 MHz community.
There were many big DXPeditions by Russians, Czech, Germans, Rebels etc to choose the "The Best DXPedition of The Year" title from. 
 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on January 20, 2023, 07:15:28 PM
Apparently they are already there - ha!

The DQRM is gonna be fierce.

Randy / WB9LUR



(https://radionewmusic.com/fake.jpg)

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 20, 2023, 07:15:47 PM
The Marama is currently cruising along at 12 MPH.

Click on the blue traingle, click "more"

https://share.garmin.com/3Y0J (https://share.garmin.com/3Y0J)

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 20, 2023, 08:09:40 PM
The Marama is currently cruising along at 12 MPH.

Click on the blue traingle, click "more"

https://share.garmin.com/3Y0J (https://share.garmin.com/3Y0J)

N0UN

Wow, now 16 MPH!

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/bouvet-16MPH.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on January 22, 2023, 03:24:13 PM
It's kind of strange that they have no MM activity going.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on January 22, 2023, 03:31:38 PM
It's kind of strange that they have no MM activity going.

 They already addressed that issue. Because of safety reasons the boats captain nixed it because he doesn't want people on the deck due to the potential of bad weather. (installing antennas, etc)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 22, 2023, 04:01:35 PM
Looks they're past South Georgia and the Sandwich Islands!  Appears they have about 1,000 miles down, another 1,500 miles to go.

Seems to be around +/- 200 miles a day (so far).

I cannot get my head around that yet (2,500 miles on a sailboat).

https://share.garmin.com/3Y0J (https://share.garmin.com/3Y0J)

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on January 22, 2023, 05:19:14 PM
"3Y0J Co-Leader Rune LA7THA. 3Y0J Chief Pilot Morten LA3MHA was in the talk group as well. The Marama is passing just to the south of South Georgia Island. They will not be stopping at South Georgia.....asked if he had an estimated date if arrival at Bouvet. He said that he thought it is still a bit early to know but he suspected that it would be close to the end of the month..."

"3Y0J Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA earlier: Not much news here. We saw an iceberg and are changing the route to a more northern one. This will add one half day but is more safe. The route is assessed by a professional navigator working onshore. He advises the Captain what route to choose. He provides us with the waypoints we should go to. The guys are chilling, sleeping, eating and discussing. It’s about 1,500 nautical miles to 3Y.” Ken also thinks they will arrive at Bouvet around January 30th."

Above in dx-world.net
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on January 22, 2023, 06:13:50 PM
It's kind of strange that they have no MM activity going.

 They already addressed that issue. Because of safety reasons the boats captain nixed it because he doesn't want people on the deck due to the potential of bad weather. (installing antennas, etc)
I wonder why he would not allow an antenna installation before they left port and just run it to one of the rooms below deck.  Anyway no big deal but MM certainly does add to the excitement and gives the operators something fun to do.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 22, 2023, 07:56:00 PM
According to the Marama Expeditions Website calendar - they have a "Cape Town to Brazil" expedition that is scheduled to embark Cape Town on March 7th.

The Bouvet expedition is scheduled to disembark Cape Town on February 28th.

I show the distance from Bouvet to Cape Town as approximately 1,600 miles.  At their present rate of about 200 miles a day, that's around 8 days of sailing.

There's not much wiggle room to possibly extend this DXpedition and still have the vessel ready for its next trip.

https://maramaexpeditions.com/en/calendar-marama-expeditions/ (https://maramaexpeditions.com/en/calendar-marama-expeditions/)

We just saw how fast 20 days of FT8WW went by.  I will not be waiting for the pileups to diminish for Bouvet.

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on January 22, 2023, 10:08:27 PM
We just saw how fast 20 days of FT8WW went by.  I will not be waiting for the pileups to diminish for Bouvet.

Assuming they land successfully, their rigs and amps stay working, and their antennas all stay up they will probably be easy enough to work at least once for an ATNO after about 10 days by anybody with more than 100W and a G5RV at 15 feet.

The outlier bands will be tricky until the end, especially 80 and 160, but I think the pileups from 40 to 15m will thin out substantially before the final week of their operation. But again, that presupposes everything goes according to plan. If they keep losing antennas in the wind, if their amps fail under load, a genny craps the bed, or we get triple-digit A indices then all bets are off.

Heard, Amsterdam, Malpelo, and a few others were all very easy to work in their respective last few days. I worked VK0EK on Heard Island using QRP on 30m just nine days after they went QRV and all I have is a rotatable dipole at 75 feet. Now the first 10 or so days on Bouvet are going to be utterly insane, that's for sure. But unlike FT8WW or the previous small Bouvet activations there will be loud simultaneous QRO signals to all corners of the world 24 hours a day, or as close to it as possible. If they can stay active with multiple stations for more than 15 days then I suspect they'll also be possible to work QRP, and by guys with bad antennas and low power. I'd wager 15 and 20, CW and SSB, will be easy by the end.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on January 22, 2023, 11:23:11 PM
I also think this is (again) a case where FT8 will help everyone.  No, really.  Here's why.

Those that just want an ATNO and aren't fussy about mode, are almost certain to find FT8 very friendly and maybe available to them on multiple bands at the same time for many hours a day.  These stations will probably crank out rates of 150 to 200 Qs an hour on each band in the early going.

Which means if you can't abide FT8 yourself, a lot of your erstwhile competition is going to be content to work the "wrong" mode and leave less competition for you.  What do you care what they do?  They're gonna do it anyway.  Why not profit from it?.

I have also observed that operations that put up huge numbers of Qs on FT8 in the early days see less jamming activity.  If that trend continues, that will help everyone out as well.  Less abuse of your ears and mine.

Moreover, this is going to be a large operation with plenty of ops, so it won't be one of those "two guys who work all FT8 and a little of the rest" kind of deals.  This is going to be more like Baker and all the other large scale operations.  I'm not worried about that and neither should anyone else, whatever the preferences.  Even if CW and SSB are "merely" 30 per cent (and I think they will sum up to be more like 60), that's going to be an enormous number of QSOs available, pretty much around the clock, too.  Whatever the number is, it is quite likely there will be enough "action" for those that want it with stations that have worked on these expeditions in the past.

I have exactly one Q with Bouvet in my life, so I need two modes and lots of bands.  I expect to get all of that.  Some of it, probably, the first day and, yeah, probably on FT8.  After that?  Well, I got some conventional QSOs to run after.  I will get at least one band that way and probably more.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on January 22, 2023, 11:50:10 PM
I'll be happy not to see another DXpedition operating multiple Data sub-modes. FT8 is efficient but not much fun. I see 20 and 15 m also assigned RTTY, that's cool. I won't begrudge those who are authorised to operate 60 m.
I am very much looking forward to this one, especially after the multiple disappointments over the past years.
One thing for sure, I'll be trying my best to get in the log in the first few days, at least during Step 1 and Step 2 of the installation, BEFORE they get the beams up.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on January 23, 2023, 01:10:16 AM
Interesting point made by Wayne about the ship needing to be back in SA by early March,

It has been mentioned that they have 22 days contracted at or on the Island, I don't recall if the guys said 22 days at or on as that would make a huge difference if they struggle to land on the island there could be a lot smaller window of opportunity to work them,

Hopefully they make it there safe and sound, that is the most important thing currently,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on January 23, 2023, 05:30:30 AM
Team plan:
"The team envisage 9-14 days at sea. While 22 days on the island is planned. Then it’s another 9-14 days sailing to Cape Town. Estimated date for Cape Town is March 1st. "

Interesting point made by Wayne about the ship needing to be back in SA by early March,

It has been mentioned that they have 22 days contracted at or on the Island, I don't recall if the guys said 22 days at or on as that would make a huge difference if they struggle to land on the island there could be a lot smaller window of opportunity to work them,

Hopefully they make it there safe and sound, that is the most important thing currently,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on January 23, 2023, 08:42:53 AM
I'll be happy not to see another DXpedition operating multiple Data sub-modes. FT8 is efficient but not much fun. I see 20 and 15 m also assigned RTTY, that's cool.
I'm most excited for RTTY to be honest. I worked Petrus (3Y0E) on 20m phone, and CW should be fairly easy—eventually. But with the exception of Crozet, every one of my 328 digital mode entities have been on RTTY. If I can get Bouvet on either digital mode that'll put me 2 back of the digital Honor Roll, but doing it on RTTY would be special, for sure.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE4YD on January 23, 2023, 10:24:01 AM
I don't need them on CW or Phone but do need a lot of band fills. I would love to get a RTTY contact but will take FT8 for a new digital mode, of my current digital totals 323 are RTTY, 1 PSK, 2 FT8
Currently sitting at 328 total 326 current.
Hopefully the propagation gods will look down favorably on all of us.
73,
David
KE4YD
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on January 23, 2023, 04:58:15 PM
/MM now qrv.
"Today at around 19:23 UTC the callsign LA7GIA/MM was heard from the yacht Marama. Adrian KO8SCA told Steve N2AJ a few minutes ago that four different operators from the team had operated /MM at that point."

from dx-world.net
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on January 24, 2023, 09:51:02 AM
Just checked and they are now only doing 6 mph. Not exactly burning up the waves. Maybe they need bigger oars? :)

John K7KB
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 24, 2023, 10:41:54 AM
Just checked and they are now only doing 6 mph. Not exactly burning up the waves. Maybe they need bigger oars? :)

John K7KB

I'm no weatherman but converging/colliding red can't be good me thinks?

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Screenshot-2023-01-24-113755.png)

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on January 24, 2023, 01:43:20 PM
That is probably normal weather for this part of the world.
I have not heard them complaining about bad weather like the other 3J0 dxpeditions, so I suspect it's nothing worst then what they expected.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on January 24, 2023, 05:10:23 PM
Worked Ken, LA7GIA/MM this evening without too much trouble on 20m CW. The signal was a bit fluttery but nothing too bad. Here is what he sounded like at my QTH around 23z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lga-yzHQMoA

73
Mason - KM4SII
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on January 24, 2023, 06:12:30 PM
Worked Ken, LA7GIA/MM this evening without too much trouble on 20m CW. The signal was a bit fluttery but nothing too bad. Here is what he sounded like at my QTH around 23z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lga-yzHQMoA

73
Mason - KM4SII

Just worked  VE3LYC/MM on 20M CW - always fun to work the MM on the way to the DXpedition!

02:05 UTC 14024 / QSX 14027 when I worked him. Looks like they are taking turns letting different team members use their home call/MM.

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 26, 2023, 10:12:39 AM
Any thoughts on when the first 3Y0J station will hit the airwaves?

I say around 2000Z on Wednesday March 1st - SSB.

That's right about their sunset next Wednesday evening (CET, GMT +1).

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on January 26, 2023, 11:30:44 AM
They have done the easy bit, actually getting on Bouvet and assembling the huge stations they have planned will be the hardest challenge,

Fingers crossed that they can do so safely,

And I'm sure they will fire up FT8 first just for the hell of it  ;D

My robot is sleeping in preparation for this, WD set to 1hr  ;)

Trevor
EI2GLB


Any thoughts on when the first 3Y0J station will hit the airwaves?

I say around 2000Z on Wednesday March 1st - SSB.

That's right about their sunset next Wednesday evening (CET, GMT +1).

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on January 26, 2023, 12:04:59 PM
The guys on the boat have been trivially easy to work /MM the last few evenings, and yet almost no takers.  CQ CQ CQ...

I know it doesn't count for anything except maybe grid squares but why so little interest?  Even just to throw them a bone?  Listening to the endless CQing is sad.  I do sometimes wonder if the DXers who enjoy the whole "show," and not just the greenies, are a dying breed.

Consider giving them some traffic tonight.  I am sure they would appreciate it.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on January 26, 2023, 12:59:56 PM
Too many people not listening in the traditional sense.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on January 26, 2023, 07:42:21 PM
At this point I have reached the stage where I will get excited when they actually setup the stations and start broadcasting.  I thought the 3Y0Z was a slam dunk activation and then everything went sideways.  I thought Doms plan was a bit half baked but doable and that went sideways.  So now I will just wait and pray that this works out.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on January 26, 2023, 07:59:57 PM
Too many people not listening in the traditional sense.
Ha!

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 27, 2023, 12:18:11 AM
The guys on the boat have been trivially easy to work /MM the last few evenings, and yet almost no takers.  CQ CQ CQ...

I know it doesn't count for anything except maybe grid squares but why so little interest?  Even just to throw them a bone?  Listening to the endless CQing is sad.  I do sometimes wonder if the DXers who enjoy the whole "show," and not just the greenies, are a dying breed.

Consider giving them some traffic tonight.  I am sure they would appreciate it.

Cezar (VE3LYC/MM) had a pretty good pileup (and signal) tonight right up until he went QRT around 0230Z or so.  Of course the Lids were out in force also.   

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD0PO on January 27, 2023, 06:35:30 AM
NP4G/MM has a great signal right now on 28.026.
Excellent op with a great Q rate.

I've been enjoying working each of the guys working MM.
I just hope that when they park behind the mountain, they are still copyable!!

Ray
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 27, 2023, 06:28:18 PM
It appears the Garmin stopped transmitting yesterday the 26th at 11:57 PM (EST).

https://share.garmin.com/3y0j (https://share.garmin.com/3y0j)

Satellite tracking out of range?

N0UN

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Screenshot-2023-01-27-192422.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on January 27, 2023, 06:31:25 PM
Anybody know how much power/antenna they're running on the boat?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on January 27, 2023, 10:16:49 PM
For info also check Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ but I don't see much new right now.
Somewhere I saw that they were using some sort of dipole antenna onboard. I suspect it'd be barefoot operation.

Garmin seems to need new battery/charge.  73
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4OGW on January 28, 2023, 09:05:20 AM
For info also check Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ but I don't see much new right now.
Somewhere I saw that they were using some sort of dipole antenna onboard. I suspect it'd be barefoot operation.

Garmin seems to need new battery/charge.  73

On that facebook page there is a link to track the boat using its AIS transponder.

Tor N4OGW
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 28, 2023, 09:24:29 AM
For info also check Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/) but I don't see much new right now.
Somewhere I saw that they were using some sort of dipole antenna onboard. I suspect it'd be barefoot operation.

Garmin seems to need new battery/charge.  73

On that facebook page there is a link to track the boat using its AIS transponder.

Tor N4OGW

There's a Garmin (that isn't working) but I cannot find any reference to this transponder you mention. Do you have a link?

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on January 28, 2023, 09:38:57 AM
On the 26th when I checked it the Garmin said that the battery status was LOW!  I suspect that no one is willing to recharge it, maybe it was put in a difficult location to reach to in high seas??

I am almost sure that the Garmin Tracking worked fine all the way to Bouvet with other Dxpeditions.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4OGW on January 28, 2023, 10:04:51 AM
this is the link that was posted:

https://universe.fleetmon.com/explorer/vessel/10777544
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on January 28, 2023, 10:22:56 AM
These shots were taken from a poll in this  video (https://twitter.com/wimo_de/status/1618979750772457475). Nearly half will wait to see if they'll try to make contact and 3% say it's not important? More would rather work FT8 than CW? At least the SBB [sic] crowd is ranking higher. The needed bands are all over the place. Had I taken the poll, I would have checked everything but 20.

(https://i.postimg.cc/BbMBCvq2/poll2.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4OGW on January 28, 2023, 10:36:18 AM
Here's another link

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:5.2/centery:-52.7/zoom:6

You can't get info from fleetmon without an account (could try bugmenot). On the above free map you can see the boat ("Pleasure craft") and read out the position on the display in the upper right corner of the screen. It gives a further east position than the garmin, the last update was 20 hours ago (click on boat icon).

Tor N4OGW
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 28, 2023, 12:10:03 PM
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:

I had a very nice Satellite Radio call with 3Y0J Team Co-Leader Ken at 17:00 UTC today. First and foremost we always discuss the condition of the team members. Ken said they are all doing very well now. Some are no longer using the seasickness medications. Conditions at sea are now 30 knot winds with 2-3 meter waves. Ken said their location at that time was approximately 400 nautical miles from Bouvet Island. Their speed was about 8 knots. Ken estimates Marama should arrive at Bouvet on Monday evening just before sunset. He says he anticipates a good weather window for at least two days then. The team will attempt to move the equipment and supplies onto the island using the zodiac then. They have two zodiacs. They are hoping to accomplish it in those two days.

For those of you who noticed that our Garmin GPS stopped tracking halfway through Day 9 at 11:57 PM, and also indicated Low Batt, we certainly noticed that too. Adrian charges the Garmin every night so that is not the issue. I downloaded the manual and texted sections that might apply like doing a soft reset, or if there was a low power mode it may have switched to. None of that helped. So it could be an anomaly of being in the most remote place on Earth. Not everything is going to work there. You will see that the Garmin continues to lay down Day marker flags. If you left click them they give you the date, time, latitude and longitude.

I asked Ken how the team is spending their time as they get closer to Bouvet. There are having meetings and making preparations for the landing operation. They are also enjoying working many if you on the radio. This keeps them from being bored, gives them some practice to keep them sharp, and give you an opportunity to see how the propagation is from that part of the world to your stations. IKen had originally told me they had dipoles for just 17m & 20m they would use for maritime mobile operation, but they are using the Elecraft K3’s internal tuner with 100 watts and doing other bands too. I’ve seen spots for them on 10, 12 15, 17, & 20 meters CW & SSB. Ken said there is very low noise on 10 & 12 meters. They are having excellent receive there.

Thank you to everyone who re-tweeted my tweet, or sent their own tweet, to @elonmusk requesting his help in getting Starlink internet coverage for Bouvet Island if we don’t get signal there when the terminal is set up. I haven’t heard from “Mr. Tweet” directly, yet but word has made it to Spacex, the parent company of Starlink, that we may need help. It’s still in the beginning stages at this point. Hopefully I will have more to report to you on this soon.

Thank you all for following the 3Y0J Adventure!

73,

Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on January 28, 2023, 04:13:27 PM
Quote
More would rather work FT8 than CW?

Well, according to the chart, that's not the way the question was worded.

It said "more important" which could be interpreted several ways by the survey taker.

It could be regarded as "more important" because they expect they have a better shot with FT8.  That might reflect the station they have.  That might reflect the rate the expect to see from the operation.  That might reflect a third or fourth thing that didn't occur to me but did to them.  And yes, some might have used it to express a mode preference, even though that's not quite what the survey asked.

Sometimes, in a survey, there is no answer that best fits what you, the participant, might want to say.

But "preferred" notably doesn't appear on the chart.  I don't think we can automatically insert it.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on January 28, 2023, 06:00:15 PM
It was also a survey with an unknown number of self-selected respondents on the website of a German ham radio dealer.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on January 29, 2023, 08:34:09 AM
Heh someone should contact Starlink and let them know that their claims that their system works anywhere on the Planet are about to be busted if they do not get some coverage for Bouvet. 

If the team cannot get it to work they should make a full video of it failing on the remotest part of the world.  Who knows Starlink might Sponsor a second trip next year just to dispel the bad press.  If you know Elon then you know that he will never let a Youtube video of their system failing in Bouvet stay unchallenged.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 29, 2023, 01:33:06 PM
Adrian's tracker is working again - they're getting close!

https://share.garmin.com/3y0j (https://share.garmin.com/3y0j)

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on January 29, 2023, 03:31:44 PM
According to my routing program, they have had some relatively good downwind weather which now indicates N wind around 27 knots when they expect landfall making a leeward landfall pretty tame if I understand their target area.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on January 29, 2023, 07:44:42 PM
According to google Earth that puts them 170 Miles from the Island.
They should be there tomorrow at around 4-5pm EST which will be just a few hours after sunset on Bouvet.  So it looks like 31st will be the first attempt at landing if the weather is good.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on January 29, 2023, 10:19:06 PM
According to google Earth that puts them 170 Miles from the Island.
They should be there tomorrow at around 4-5pm EST which will be just a few hours after sunset on Bouvet.  So it looks like 31st will be the first attempt at landing if the weather is good.
So that puts them at the Island on Wednesday morning 32nd January, in my time zone!  ;D
I worked Cezar easily with a good signal this morning on 20 m CW, so it's LOOKING GOOD!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on January 30, 2023, 05:00:15 AM
Looks like they will be offshore the island by tonight from the latest update.

Looking at the waves forecast, Tuesday is the best day until Friday - Saturday to try and get ashore with Zodiacs.  Wouldn;t surprise me if they get some stuff ashore Tuesday and have to look for good windows to land for a few days with the rest of the stuff after that.

They got there, now the really dicey part starts.  Lets all hope for safety and success.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on January 30, 2023, 01:12:15 PM
The video on their Facebook page is gnarly...

https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/1304642250112417/ (https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/1304642250112417/)

3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:

3Y0J Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA reports, “We are at Bouvet. We arrive in one hour. Wx forecast is not too good. There is a 24h wx window on Tuesday noon until Wednesday noon. It is foggy and difficult conditions with high winds. We will assess the situation tomorrow morning at 04:00 local time. If conditions are ok we might attempt to land. But this is not going to be easy. Otherwise we have to wait until Thursday or Friday.”

The 3Y0J Team is receiving Starlink Internet Service at this time. Thank you Elon Musk!

73,
Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on January 31, 2023, 02:58:02 AM
Very cool.  Those are pretty tame seas vs the forecast for Wed - Fri.  They look to be getting ready to attempt the first landings today.  Wish them safety and success.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on January 31, 2023, 11:25:34 AM
LA7GIA
AB5EB
WD5COV
landed along with Peter cameraman
Quote Tweet

DX World.net

@DX_World
·
17m
BREAKING DX NEWS !!

3Y0J team members have landed on Bouvet !!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on January 31, 2023, 01:36:55 PM
The guy sounds absolutely exhausted just from a single beach landing without any gear.  Just imagine doing that with a few hundred pounds of gear. 
I really wishing them the best of luck and that they can actually get all of their plans in place.  This is going to be really hard!
 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on January 31, 2023, 01:38:27 PM
Interesting to listen to the SAT phone discussion.  Looks like Ken swam to shore.  Not sure if they all did.  But they said that even the current surf was so bad that they are rigging up some kind of system to pull in the equipment by rope rather than risk numerous Zodiac landings.

That will be very interesting to see.

Additionally, they sounded pleasantly surprised with the climb/hoist to the camp/radio site.  So it sounds like as long as they can get equipment and team members ashore, the on island part might be as planned or possibly easier.

Sounded like on air start could be as late as Saturday.

Great to hear this real time report from the team.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W4AMP on January 31, 2023, 02:54:18 PM
They sound like a gritty bunch. Best wishes to them.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on January 31, 2023, 05:00:21 PM
I would love to be where SQ1SGB is right now  :) :)
Certainty is a nice thing to have at this point.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4UFO on January 31, 2023, 05:36:31 PM
WD5COV Dave and I are the same age and been hams about as long... (my Novice call was WD5CCV) That said, I can hardly imagine doing what he is doing right now. A trip to operate somewhere remote, sure, but not the physical endurance this trip must require. My hat's off to all of them. Look forward to working one of them. I hope. :)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KW4CQ on February 01, 2023, 01:11:21 PM
According the their Band Plan they have designated 14,105 as their FT8 transmit frequency.  I've been monitoring this frequency for several days and the beacon traffic there is S9 here in Virginia.  Is the crew aware that this is a beacon frequency?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 01, 2023, 03:03:58 PM
According the their Band Plan they have designated 14,105 as their FT8 transmit frequency.  I've been monitoring this frequency for several days and the beacon traffic there is S9 here in Virginia.  Is the crew aware that this is a beacon frequency?
I forwarded your post to a pilot station and the team is now aware of it. Thanks for bringing it up!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 02, 2023, 03:48:42 AM
Surprised to see no news for 36 hours from such c communicative group at this critical stage.  Especially when the last communication was pretty concerning as to the landing.  I hope all is okay on Bouvet!

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 02, 2023, 06:38:20 AM
https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-island/ (https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-island/)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KA2FIR on February 02, 2023, 08:27:50 AM
According the their Band Plan they have designated 14,105 as their FT8 transmit frequency.  I've been monitoring this frequency for several days and the beacon traffic there is S9 here in Virginia.  Is the crew aware that this is a beacon frequency?

A beacon frequency for what? The IARU CW beacons are on 14.100.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KW4CQ on February 02, 2023, 10:59:02 AM
According the their Band Plan they have designated 14,105 as their FT8 transmit frequency.  I've been monitoring this frequency for several days and the beacon traffic there is S9 here in Virginia.  Is the crew aware that this is a beacon frequency?

A beacon frequency for what? The IARU CW beacons are on 14.100.
Tune to 14,105.00 and set your receiver bandwidth to 3 KHz (as though you were working FT8) and you will hear the multi-tone clatter right now.  Others are hearing this too, not just me.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 02, 2023, 11:02:57 AM
According the their Band Plan they have designated 14,105 as their FT8 transmit frequency.  I've been monitoring this frequency for several days and the beacon traffic there is S9 here in Virginia.  Is the crew aware that this is a beacon frequency?

A beacon frequency for what? The IARU CW beacons are on 14.100.
Tune to 14,105.00 and set your receiver bandwidth to 3 KHz (as though you were working FT8) and you will hear the multi-tone clatter right now.  Others are hearing this too, not just me.

https://www.varac-hamradio.com/ (https://www.varac-hamradio.com/) probably.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KW4CQ on February 02, 2023, 11:05:10 AM
I just found this on the IARU HF Beacon Band Plan.  Pertains to Region 1:

"14101 – 14112 Digimode (Store and fwrd preferred"
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KW4CQ on February 02, 2023, 11:07:44 AM
According the their Band Plan they have designated 14,105 as their FT8 transmit frequency.  I've been monitoring this frequency for several days and the beacon traffic there is S9 here in Virginia.  Is the crew aware that this is a beacon frequency?

A beacon frequency for what? The IARU CW beacons are on 14.100.
Tune to 14,105.00 and set your receiver bandwidth to 3 KHz (as though you were working FT8) and you will hear the multi-tone clatter right now.  Others are hearing this too, not just me.

https://www.varac-hamradio.com/ (https://www.varac-hamradio.com/) probably.
You're right.  That's what it appears to be.  A new one on me.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 02, 2023, 11:58:41 AM
It appears sunset on Bouvet is at 2042Z (UTC/GMT+1).

Sunrise is around 0518Z (0418 local CET).

They are past their longest Summer day so Bouvet loses 2 minutes at sunrise and again at sunset - 4 minutes per day.

Here's a Sunrise/Sunset on Bouvet Link (https://www.timegenie.com/sunrise_sunset/city/xbvbv)

I wouldn't think you can go back & forth between the ship and land in the dark so either they're on land, or back on the Marama for the evening here in a hour or so (2002Z).  Speculating at this point...   

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 02, 2023, 12:32:26 PM
It appears sunset on Bouvet is at 2042Z (UTC/GMT+1).

Sunrise is around 0518Z (0418 local CET).

They are past their longest Summer day so Bouvet loses 2 minutes at sunrise and again at sunset - 4 minutes per day.

Here's a Sunrise/Sunset on Bouvet Link (https://www.timegenie.com/sunrise_sunset/city/xbvbv)

I wouldn't think you can go back & forth between the ship and land in the dark so either they're on land, or back on the Marama for the evening here in a hour or so (2002Z).  Speculating at this point...   

NØUN

I think I have that backwards - their sunset is 1942 local (UTC/GMT +1) so that's 1842Z sunset & 0318Z sunrise.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 02, 2023, 02:15:56 PM

I wouldn't think you can go back & forth between the ship and land in the dark


Wayne, as long as it is not cloudy, they should have plenty of moon light now. The Full Moon on Bouvet island will be in 3 days, on February 5th. Today it is 92.9%  ;D ;D ;D

https://www.timeanddate.com/moon/phases/norway/bouvet-island

Just kidding of course. Hopefully every one is OK there. We have not heard from them in over 48 hours.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 02, 2023, 02:48:07 PM
Maybe hanging wires, lifting beams and building camp? 60' higher than their first location ping.

Updated:

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-02-154526.png)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB8VLC on February 02, 2023, 03:57:35 PM
Since Cape Fie is on the South East side of Bouvet from my point of view and because 60 feet up the side of the glacier doesn't sound like they would even have a clear shot to the North, are they going to drag all the equipment further up in altitude to a better location with a clear view to North America and Europe or will they operate close to Cape Fie on the South side?

I have no problem doing long path if that's the only option but I figure its best to ask now and plan my beam headings before all of the calling starts.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 02, 2023, 04:14:47 PM
Since Cape Fie is on the South East side of Bouvet from my point of view and because 60 feet up the side of the glacier doesn't sound like they would even have a clear shot to the North, are they going to drag all the equipment further up in altitude to a better location with a clear view to North America and Europe or will they operate close to Cape Fie on the South side?

I have no problem doing long path if that's the only option but I figure its best to ask now and plan my beam headings before all of the calling starts.

Follow the short-path lines that AE5X shows on his map, and then follow the height of the mountain ridge lines.

Convert those meters to feet, and be prepared to be shocked just how tall those ridges are.

We will hopefully soon see if we have short-path signals to NA!  I know Chuck Brady was on the Western side of Bouvet with perfect shot with zero mountains to NA.

NØUN

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/bouvet.jpg)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 02, 2023, 04:27:12 PM
I would think that today  was spent getting a system in place for moving the equipment and setting up at least one tent.  I suspect the first station will be on the Air tomorrow.  If it's not then that means they are having more issues then expected.

A 2000 FT solid wall of ice in front of the Antennas makes this look like a long path scenario for most of the Americas.  I got a really bad feeling about this given that Europe and Japan have an almost a clean shot.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 02, 2023, 04:50:30 PM
Just a hunch, but I think NA East will do OK with this one. If they're running full power and propagation is even moderately decent, their high takeoff angle will only make things marginally tricky. They're saying about a 6.5° takeoff towards us. My takeoff angles to Crozet, Amsterdam, and Heard, all of which are much further away, is about the same and I was able to work them on multiple bands. All of those Qs were short path, and I even worked Heard QRP on CW. So I don't think this one will be substantially worse. Now guys with G5RVs at 20 feet and 10 Watts might be in for a bit of disappointment, but it's been ever thus. And likewise, guys with stacks and on RHR will get in first day, but average stations might take a few days to get in the log.

I think the biggest factor for NA-E operators is the relative proximity, which hopefully means the average incoming signal from Bouvet might be at a higher angle just naturally; generally the further away the lower the angle needed, for multiple hops.

One more datapoint. When I worked Petrus, 3Y0E on Bouvet in late January 2008, the SFI value at the time I worked him was 71.4 (today it is 135 and will probably go back up in about 2 weeks). We were at the very bottom/end of cycle 23, and I was able to work him on 20 SSB. Yes, he was on the west coast of Bouvet, but everything else was worse--he was using 100W, wire antennas and crappy solar conditions. It can be done. these were the sunspot numbers for Jan. 2008 for reference.

(https://i.postimg.cc/8zPc147F/sunspots-1-2008.jpg)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 02, 2023, 05:06:12 PM
We will hopefully soon see if we have short-path signals to NA!  I know Chuck Brady was on the Western side of Bouvet with perfect shot with zero mountains to NA.

Yep, we'll see. When I worked Chuck on 20M SSB in Jan 2001, he was loud and clear. Cycle 23 was between the two peaks at the time, which was about the same as we've seen in sunspot numbers with Cycle 25 here lately.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 02, 2023, 06:53:23 PM
 Lot's of spots on the cluster from guys honestly believing 3Y0J has started. "Work first worry later" their spots say.  :) :) :)

 This is my favorite 3Y0J spot so far from someone who's confused about where penguins live.

 (https://i.ibb.co/6W4VnGF/Capture.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)


                                                          Tom KH0/KC0W
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 02, 2023, 07:37:34 PM
Lot's of spots on the cluster from guys honestly believing 3Y0J has started. "Work first worry later" their spots say.  :) :) :)

 This is my favorite 3Y0J spot so far from someone who's confused about where penguins live.

 (https://i.ibb.co/6W4VnGF/Capture.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)


                                                          Tom KH0/KC0W
Every time I see these kind of spots I wonder why QRZ does not have their own Spotting server.  A server that you can log onto using your QRZ credentials.
 It sounds simple enough to me just to have a box under your QRZ profile that allows you access to their cluster using a generated password.
I get that the clusters share data but if it's QRZ based then you know the Spots are real and anyone who is posting fake ones or abusing the comments will get booted from spotting.
It would quickly become the only one that Ham Operators use.
The cluster as it is now is like a CB playground and that is why I do not use it all that much.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 02, 2023, 07:58:37 PM
Aren't there penguins on Bouvet? We have them in Australia, and certainly on Macquarie Island. Polar Bears would definitely be out of place in Bouvet!
As for crap posted on the Cluster Network, this has been discussed at length before. I expect that DX Summit would be the unlocked door where the loonies get in. The sysops don't seem interested in cleaning up the traffic, by only allowing registered users. I've given up looking in the Comments section. I suppose there are other open cluster nodes that allow the anonymous postings too. A "clean" Cluster would be appealing, where everyone posting is verified.
Having worked Cezar on the boat as they approached Bouvet, I am confident in at least a 20 m CW QSO with 3Y0J, and they have a clear path to VK.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on February 02, 2023, 08:29:08 PM
About 0400Z, Feb 3, 2023

" 3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
The 3Y0J Team is very busy working in very extreme and difficult conditions to transfer all the equipment and supplies from Marama to Bouvet Island. The materials must then be carried or hoisted up to their campsite at a higher elevation. The Starlink internet terminal has been disconnected. Internet communications with team members will not be possible again until the camp is established and Starlink set up. Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA has asked that we be patient while they work. The satellite radios are being used to coordinate activities between the camp and the boat and must be kept open for that purpose. Thank you for your understanding.
73,
Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition"
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 02, 2023, 11:27:00 PM
This is my favorite 3Y0J spot so far from someone who's confused about where penguins live.                                                         

 Pot meet kettle. OK, so I'm the one who knows NOTHING about penguins..............The shame, the humiliation, the embarrassment. Where's the nearest rug to climb under?


 (https://i.ibb.co/HN0txTf/1.png) (https://ibb.co/jVdyWkP)


                                            Tom KH0/KC0W

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 03, 2023, 05:30:00 AM
Aren't there penguins on Bouvet? We have them in Australia, and certainly on Macquarie Island.

I would say they are there. I believe these cute little guys are Rock Hoppers, and there's other types there as well.

(https://i.postimg.cc/jjM5HXR6/vk0mm.jpg)


Having worked Cezar on the boat as they approached Bouvet, I am confident in at least a 20 m CW QSO with 3Y0J, and they have a clear path to VK.

This operation should be a piece of cake for you guys in VK.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AE5X on February 03, 2023, 05:54:17 AM
(https://i.ibb.co/HN0txTf/1.png) (https://ibb.co/jVdyWkP)


It would be a good omen if they were Marconi penguins instead of macaroni penguins.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 03, 2023, 07:49:20 AM
i remember ft5zm it took them 2or 3 days till they got the first signal out and they didnt have to climb cliffs i'll be happy if they have a station going over the weekend. do any of you from the US have 3y on 30,40 or even 80m ? i have only heard of qso's 20m and above. ? after 12 months plus i got my amp going yay.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 03, 2023, 08:30:54 AM
It would be a good omen if they were Marconi penguins instead of macaroni penguins.

The Macaroni breed taste better   ;D ;D
BTW I guess people forgot the old wooden Boat at Bouvet.
The most common picture that is in circulation shows a large Seal lying inside the half submerged boat.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 03, 2023, 10:38:37 AM
do any of you from the US have 3y on 30,40 or even 80m ? i have only heard of qso's 20m and above. ?
Just out of curiosity, I checked some of the top stations in the PVRC club league on ClubLog and I am seeing a number of stations with low band QSOs to Bouvet. For instance, W4DR and W3UR have Bouvet confirmed on every HF band (Except for 60m), including 80 and 160m. Impressive!

73
Mason - KM4SII
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 03, 2023, 10:51:50 AM

Just out of curiosity, I checked some of the top stations in the PVRC club league on ClubLog and I am seeing a number of stations with low band QSOs to Bouvet. For instance, W4DR and W3UR have Bouvet confirmed on every HF band (Except for 60m), including 80 and 160m. Impressive!

73
Mason - KM4SII
During some of the prior 3Y expeditions, they were calling CQ near the end with no/few takers.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 03, 2023, 10:57:34 AM

Just out of curiosity, I checked some of the top stations in the PVRC club league on ClubLog and I am seeing a number of stations with low band QSOs to Bouvet. For instance, W4DR and W3UR have Bouvet confirmed on every HF band (Except for 60m), including 80 and 160m. Impressive!

73
Mason - KM4SII

I did manage to work Heard on 80/40/30... Amsterdam on 40/30.. Crozet on 30.. South Gorgia and South Sandwich on 80/40, etc.... so it could be doable on 80/40 from here. We'll see!!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 03, 2023, 11:35:47 AM
Do any of you from the US have 3y on 30,40 or even 80m ? i have only heard of qso's 20m and above?
The last big Bouvet expedition was before my time, however I got all the Southern Ocean entities on 30, 40, and 80 that have been active on the lowbands in the last 20 years. A couple on 160 as well. But Heard, Peter1, South Georgia, South Sandwich, South Orkney, Amsterdam, all worked on 80 and 40. Just a vee on 80 at 60 feet, and a short Yagi on 40 at about 68 feet, and 1400 W.

The problem here will be the relatively short period of mutual darkness and greylines will limit the number of folks who get through, providing that propagation is favourable. I think 80 should be possible if they're active for two weeks, and 40 almost certainly.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3OD on February 03, 2023, 11:36:41 AM
"[/quote]

This operation should be a piece of cake for you guys in VK.
[/quote]"

The realities are these.

1. VK's will have to fight with auroral/muf zone propagation absorption on all paths.
2. VK is SE of Bouvet, its either on the back of, or on the side of the beam of popular zones EU/JA/NA. Africa is always easy for the VK6's because of proximity a higher MUF and just being lucky enough to skirt the Auroral zone absorption. The signals from South America. Southern Africa and anything south or on the polar path extremes always has that watery aurora flutter.
3. VK/ZL/Oceania rarely gets serious attention from dx'peditions. We have to fight for every QSO either through Europe or JA pileups.
4. Most other locations in the world have a MUF/Non aurora zone propagation advantage.
5. On the higher bands propagation peaks and windows can be very short as short as 10 minutes in Eastern VK.
6. The greyline peak is very narrow on the low bands and the window is very small 
7. Without the operators looking for VK's/ZL's, its going to be a tough fight even for us
8. It would not be a tough fight if the dx'pedition's seriously beams VK/ZL Oceania in a meaningful way with consistency and making time rather than the usual "VK/ZL's" for 2 minutes with beam towards Japan or Europe.
9. The recent run of African dx'peditions was a good example. The operators working endless pileups of short trans equatorial short skip 24/7 while rarely considering the small propagation windows/conditions while never bothering to even to turn the beam. Its amusing that operators think that its fair for VK's to call through endless JA and Europe pileups  while listening for VK's on the back or the side of their beams. Thats even before considering auroral zone absorption. But I suppose 10 metre FM qso's for band slots is more important for egos!

As the saying goes, dont  count your chickens before they hatch, or before you even hear or see the chicken. Time will tell how this dx'pedition plays out and how much effort was put into propagation research in terms of  giving everyone in the world a fair shot at getting them in the bag, its never as easy as it looks unless its short skip in your backyard with 24/7 propagation.

This is a perspective, good luck in the pileup!

73
VK3OD
[/quote]

This operation should be a piece of cake for you guys in VK.
[/quote]
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 03, 2023, 12:08:34 PM
1. VK's will have to fight with auroral/muf zone propagation absorption on all paths.
2. VK is SE of Bouvet, its either on the back of, or on the side of the beam of popular zones EU/JA/NA. Africa is always easy for the VK6's because of proximity a higher MUF and just being lucky enough to skirt the Auroral zone absorption. The signals from South America. Southern Africa and anything south or on the polar path extremes always has that watery aurora flutter.
3. VK/ZL/Oceania rarely gets serious attention from dx'peditions. We have to fight for every QSO either through Europe or JA pileups.

Of these, I think point 3 will be the most difficult overall. East coast VK will have its challenges due to the path, but I think SA, VIC, and certainly WA should be able to work them on numerous bands. They have some of the world's best operators and first class pilot stations so a word in the ear of the pilots should hopefully yield some pauses for VK/ZL during the best times.

The auroral issue will hurt east coast, I agree. However, SA and WA won't be really in the auroral zone (120-140° short path from Bouvet). Just too bad most of the population is in along the east coast. Only consolation I can give you is that they've got an absolutely clean shot terrain-wise and a much shorter distance to you than to the east coast of North America and northern Europe, so even with the 400W limitation I still think they'll be workable on at least 4 bands into VK. Now the South Pacific will be just awful for them, and good luck to anybody there. Lowbands will be tough for everybody. Good luck.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 03, 2023, 12:11:09 PM
Just saw a message reported to be from the team, saying "this will not be a fullscale operation as planned but a smaller setup."

I'm bracing for impact when I see it on their official feeds.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3TMT on February 03, 2023, 12:13:46 PM
Hopefully I be able to work Cezar, he only lives a few KMS down the road from me.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 03, 2023, 12:17:19 PM
Just saw a message reported to be from the team, saying "this will not be a fullscale operation as planned but a smaller setup."

I'm bracing for impact when I see it on their official feeds.

Oh crap!!
I wonder if a Generator dropped into the Water.  This was what I feared.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 03, 2023, 12:32:33 PM
Just saw a message reported to be from the team, saying "this will not be a fullscale operation as planned but a smaller setup."

I'm bracing for impact when I see it on their official feeds.
Oh crap!!
I wonder if a Generator dropped into the Water.  This was what I feared.

I think it's due to the weather. 60kt storms forecast. This is what was just released:



3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Status Update:
3Y0J Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA has sent the following:

4 team members have spent 4 days on the island under difficult conditions. All team members are now back on the vessel and everyone is safe. Bouvet has proved to be a difficult destination to activate, and the team is now adjusting our plans before we return to the island. The wx forecast for the weekend indicates a storm with 60 knot wind Sunday/Monday and depending on this storm we will assess the situation and go onshore when conditions are good. This will not be a fullscale operation as planned but a smaller setup. We have a good overview of the camp and the possibilities, and will attempt to continue building the camp. We have infrastructure on the island including access to the camp.

We will send the next update later.

73, 3Y0J team
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 03, 2023, 12:52:23 PM
Some good pictures on their 3Y0J Facebook Group Page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/permalink/4636892926435205/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/permalink/4636892926435205/)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 03, 2023, 12:55:41 PM

I think it's due to the weather. 60kt storms forecast. This is what was just released:



3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Status Update:
3Y0J Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA has sent the following:

4 team members have spent 4 days on the island under difficult conditions. All team members are now back on the vessel and everyone is safe. Bouvet has proved to be a difficult destination to activate, and the team is now adjusting our plans before we return to the island. The wx forecast for the weekend indicates a storm with 60 knot wind Sunday/Monday and depending on this storm we will assess the situation and go onshore when conditions are good. This will not be a fullscale operation as planned but a smaller setup. We have a good overview of the camp and the possibilities, and will attempt to continue building the camp. We have infrastructure on the island including access to the camp.

We will send the next update later.

73, 3Y0J team
Thanks.
This is not sounding good.  Less time and less stations is going to mean a lot more desperation to make a Q.   I'ts going to be like Gladiator on the Airwaves.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 03, 2023, 01:04:03 PM
Hmm.

eHam whining about broken promises in. . .5. . .4. . .3. . .2. . .

More seriously, I wish them well and to operate in safety in a place that has lots of cold, wind, and no guardrails.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 03, 2023, 01:35:54 PM
Oh man, sounds like dicey weather conditions down there. Hoping the team can safely make continued progress. Gonna be some big pileups!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on February 03, 2023, 01:50:01 PM
i remember ft5zm it took them 2or 3 days till they got the first signal out and they didnt have to climb cliffs i'll be happy if they have a station going over the weekend. do any of you from the US have 3y on 30,40 or even 80m ? . . .

I think it’ll be next Tuesday at minimum . . as for Bouvet, I have it cfd using cw on 10, 20 and 40m, 100w.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 03, 2023, 02:30:39 PM
i remember ft5zm it took them 2or 3 days till they got the first signal out and they didnt have to climb cliffs i'll be happy if they have a station going over the weekend. do any of you from the US have 3y on 30,40 or even 80m ? . . .
I think it’ll be next Tuesday at minimum . . as for Bouvet, I have it cfd using cw on 10, 20 and 40m, 100w.
At this point I've lowered my expectations, but I'm hoping for at the very least one CW and one digital mode, and one or two new bands. Anything other than 20 SSB would be great, to be honest.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 03, 2023, 02:42:07 PM
These guys are clearly doing everything humanly possible and then some.  Glad to see no one has been injured.

There is surprisingly little equipment in the photos and videos.  It looks like the operating camp site would be excellent.  Now to just get some stuff up there.

I think its an excellent decision to trim it down and match the realistic expectations with what they see in front of them. 

Given the discussion of weather, it would be quite an accomplishment if they were on the air by Tuesday.

Good luck to all in the pile-ups.  I can feel them getting huger with every passing day.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 03, 2023, 02:43:48 PM
Just saw a message reported to be from the team, saying "this will not be a fullscale operation as planned but a smaller setup."

I'm bracing for impact when I see it on their official feeds.

Oh crap!!
I wonder if a Generator dropped into the Water.  This was what I feared.

I'm guessing they way over estimated how much gear they would be able to get ashore in a few days and now realize they won't operate many days if they try and get everything brought over and setup and then allow for tear down and return to the boat.

I saw the offical vegas over/under on FT8 Q's  was 78%.  I dropped a hundred on the over.


Gino - KE8KMX

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 03, 2023, 03:13:29 PM

I'm guessing they way over estimated how much gear they would be able to get ashore in a few days and now realize they won't operate many days if they try and get everything brought over and setup and then allow for tear down and return to the boat.

I saw the offical vegas over/under on FT8 Q's  was 78%.  I dropped a hundred on the over.


Gino - KE8KMX
I think you are right.  This has got to be one of the toughest things a person can do.  Carrying all that gear over has got to be a nightmare.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 03, 2023, 03:20:02 PM
if you look at the 3y5x video they had helicopters which made a huge difference. and the first failed trip a few years ago had them but the pilots admitted there was little chance of them taking off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzewDrx_F8U
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on February 03, 2023, 03:50:41 PM
……. and then the ship’s engines went on the Fritz and the whole thing was done.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 03, 2023, 04:01:58 PM

At this point I've lowered my expectations


I have lowered my expectations as well. At this point a single QSO for my ATNO would keep me more than happy. If this is to be a substantially scaled down activity, perhaps they will do what FT8WW has done, limit the number of bands and modes and concentrate on the number of uniques to maximize ATNOs.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 03, 2023, 04:09:20 PM

The weather on both Islands seems to change rapidly hour by hour so I am a bit worried for 3Y0J and how they are going to get that much equipment on the island by small boats.
Don't worry about this. We already have conducted a "lesson learned" from other DXpeditions. When it comes to this specific thing we have split our 7,5 metric ton of gear in several STEPS. You can access our webpage to see how the camp, antenna and station setup will be done.

Meaning that we already in the planning stage have considered the very likely scenario that we will only have a short wx window of a few hours to be able to set up a small camp. So our approach is to start with a LIGHTWEIGHT STEP1 of 1500 kg, estimated to 5-6 boat rides, which only includes the minimal amount of equipment, food, water, medications etc  to be able to setup a SMALL camp. Then we have designed additional steps 2 to 4 that additionally expands the camp. In addition we have implemented measure so that we can ration the amount of fuel, heating, food and water so any team that land on the island will survive for 28 days without resupplies. Landing by zodiak is not any issue at all, we have previous videos demonstrating the feasibility of this.In addition we have implemented measures that allows us to work in parallell. We will have 2 zodkas that can do the landing, this will speed up the process. We have implemented a fuel pump system that will easily pump the diesel from beach into camp. We have several other possibilities to hoist up the equipment into the camp. Contrary to many other DXpeditions our approach is to do the job ourselves. The lesson learned session has also included other aspects.

Merry christmas!

It will be interesting to find out if they are trying to execute their original plan of the small STEP1 camp first or they are going with a different strategy. Praying for the safety of the team.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 03, 2023, 05:15:58 PM
"......a smaller setup"....

This could take different forms. Will be interesting to see what station configuration choices they make in the challenging conditions they face.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 03, 2023, 06:04:33 PM
"......a smaller setup"....

This could take different forms. Will be interesting to see what station configuration choices they make in the challenging conditions they face.

I think "a smaller setup" is self explanatory.
They are not going to setup as many stations because that will eat into the time they have.  At this point things may change as they are probably basing it on the Weather that is coming and the lost time it will cause, that may change and get better.

Just way to many factors for any of us to calculate, but I am pretty sure based on the 28 day reference that they are not going to push the boundaries of people on land beyond what fuel and food would be available for them to consume in a worst case scenario. 

I think it was a Peter 1st activation where the three last guys got stuck for 3 extra days due to a storm.  Twenty eight days sounds more like a "what if the boat has to leave and we have to wait on a rescue".  Sounds like a wise precaution to me.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AA6G on February 03, 2023, 06:22:00 PM
i remember ft5zm it took them 2or 3 days till they got the first signal out and they didnt have to climb cliffs i'll be happy if they have a station going over the weekend. do any of you from the US have 3y on 30,40 or even 80m ? i have only heard of qso's 20m and above. ? after 12 months plus i got my amp going yay.

I have 3Y5X confirmed on 80-15m. No 10m and no WARC bands. Considering I had a 10-30 MHz LPDA up at the time, it's possible they didn't operate on the WARC bands. Too long ago for me to remember but those bands were fairly new in 1989 and not every DXpedition operated on those bands.

AA6G
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UK on February 03, 2023, 06:24:35 PM
Looking at those great pictures their site might be a lot rougher than they thought with a drainage stream running through the middle and lots of large rocks.  I saw 3 blue equipment barrels in one of the videos that they took, so they have made some progress.

I don't know if a helicopter would help as the good day winds seem to be 30mph.  Maybe they can get one or two stations up and running next week.

I hope they all stay safe in that harsh environment.  Maybe it will be like the old days when we were happy to make one QSO with the ATNO.  I would  love a cw and an FT8 contact.  I am lucky to have one 20m ssb qso from 1990.

73 Mark N1UK

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UK on February 03, 2023, 06:30:17 PM
...in and interesting vein I was amazed to see that I only have one 15m ssb qso with Midway Island after all these years of dxing and Midway is a breeze compared to Bouvet.


73 Mark N1UK
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 03, 2023, 07:11:59 PM
60 knot winds? Just under hurricane strength. Wise to get the 4 off of the island. Probably won't be much fun riding it out in the ship either though. Whatever progress that they made may need some repair by the time the weather clears and they get back.

If everything had gone perfectly - this was going to be a real tough gig.

Sounds like they are adapting to the situation and making good decisions.

What is the *best* website to monitor WX in real time for Bouvet?

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 03, 2023, 07:47:26 PM

Windy on Bouvet (https://www.windy.com/-54.421/3.359?-54.783,3.356,8,m:8saggK)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UK on February 03, 2023, 07:58:29 PM
I have been looking at this one..

https://www.accuweather.com/en/bv/bouvet-island/2258518/daily-weather-forecast/2258518


N1UK
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 03, 2023, 08:42:39 PM
Exactly five years ago today - Feb 3, 2018 - the captain of the "Betanzos" was forced to abort the 3Y0Z effort.

From the 3Y0Z "Official" website:

"FEBRUARY 3 @ 21:30z — During the last 72 hours we continued to experience the high winds, low clouds, fog, and rough seas that have prevented helicopter operations since our arrival at Bouvet. No improvement was predicted in the weather forecast for the next four days. Then, last night an issue developed in one of the ship’s engines. This morning the captain of the vessel declared it unsafe to continue with our project and aborted the expedition. We are now on our long voyage back to Punta Arenas. As you might imagine the team is deeply disappointed, but safe. There is already talk about rescheduling the DXpedition."


They actually ended up returning (shorter / safer route) to South Africa.

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 03, 2023, 09:20:00 PM
Quote
Don't worry about this. We already have conducted a "lesson learned" from other DXpeditions.  (etc)

Just in case it's not obvious, that quote was not from me.  Someone got their quote tags off.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 03, 2023, 09:29:52 PM
……. and then the ship’s engines went on the Fritz and the whole thing was done.


no 3y5x was in 1989/1990 they had helicopter watch the video.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 03, 2023, 09:40:22 PM
……. and then the ship’s engines went on the Fritz and the whole thing was done.


no 3y5x was in 1989/1990 they had helicopter watch the video.

YouTube link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPz_c5BcTUU



Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 04, 2023, 03:31:20 AM
"60 knot winds over the weekend" wow!
Remember Thierry had to take down his wire antenna a couple of times due to the severe weather at Crozet. I fear that multiple beams may be unsustainable in this environment. Even vertical antennas will be challenged by such weather, let alone tents and all the ancillary gear they will have with them. EVERYTHING will have to be secured, or it will likely be lost.
When we were on Mellish Reef in 2014, the increasing winds were causing havoc with our antennas. There was a daily repair detail. On the last few days, the "Folding Hex-Beams" did exactly that, and turned into a tangle of poles and wires. Then, we had to very quickly pack up and leave, as a Severe Tropical Cyclone developed in the Coral Sea.
The team will be running through scenarios, and come up with solutions, even if they change from day to day.
Here's hoping for moderating weather after the weekend, and as fair weather as one can expect in such a place for the rest of the DXpedition. Mid-week is my guess for their first transmissions to the world. Good luck!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 04, 2023, 04:12:15 AM
The team has some serious and difficult choices to make.  Taking a look at wind and sea conditions, the next couple of days are actually the best until literally a week from now.  In the next 7 days, some serious weather moves through with prediction of waves up to 20 ft or more before calming down in a week where they have a very real chance of set up and operating next weekend (best conditions since arriving).  This could very easily become a less than 7 day DXpedition.

Meanwhile, they really can't sit there at anchor for 7 days in those swells.  It wouldn't surprise me if they raise anchor and head north a bit until the bad weather moves through.

This show is not at all certain at this point. 

The team clearly has its head on straight and some members of the team are strong expeditioner types.  They have already proven that with their first 4 days on island.  But despite that talent and skill, there is no radio coming from Bouvet.  And that proves just how hard Bouvet is to activate.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EA0021SWL on February 04, 2023, 04:57:50 AM
Very strong winds for the next few days
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gmd6BNZQ/bouvet.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2PP on February 04, 2023, 07:00:10 AM
"......a smaller setup"....

This could take different forms. Will be interesting to see what station configuration choices they make in the challenging conditions they face.


I suspect that they discovered those Zodiac boats weren’t suitable for carrying them or their gear over to the island. Now they don’t have a plan B for that.

A small operation may end up being a K3S muktiband vertical and lap top
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 04, 2023, 07:19:39 AM
Quote
I suspect that they discovered those Zodiac boats weren’t suitable for carrying them or their gear over to the island.

Unless the seas are incredibly rough, that isn't likely to be the issue.  Zodiacs have been used in a lot of these far south, horrid seas locations; if you look around, you can find the videos.

I've been in one, though not at these kinds of locations.  The "footprint" they require is pretty small.  Getting in and out can be a bit of work and a bit of a hassle, but if you can load the thing, you should be able to unload it.

I've also seen video of zodiacs landing on Bouvet itself.  No picnic, but doable.

It's really just a question of whether the weather permits the boats to launch and what kind of shore landing they have.  Getting the gear to even a tiny beach with a zodiac wouldn't be the question.  The question would be whether they can get the gear up whatever kind of spar of land and how rapidly the terrain rises from whatever beach there is.

I have never heard that there is much of a beach anywhere on Bouvet.  But unless you are hauling generators the size of houses, or super heavy tube amps, which would seem like bad things to take to a place like that, the zodiac shouldn't be the limiting factor.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 04, 2023, 07:27:08 AM
Go look up the video presentation for the South Sandwich operation of a couple of years ago.

There is apparently a trick, known to DXpeditioners, that works like this:

1.  You send a man ashore in a special suit.  He jumps off the zodiac.  He's like maybe armpit deep in cold water, but the suit insulates.
2.  He wades ashore with a long rope.
3.  There is some well-known little cliff.  10 or 20 feet above the water.  The rope is secured above.
4.  Gear and people go up and down using this rope.

It looks precarious as all get out (there is video), but apparently Thule in the South Sandwich Island chain has been activated this way several times.

I don't know what they are doing on Bouvet, from what I read before they left it wasn't supposed to be as bad as the Thule trick, but if the seas aren't cooperating, then nothing will work.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N6PSE on February 04, 2023, 07:58:24 AM
Here is the VP8STI  2016 South Sandwich video. Very similar conditions to Bouvet from what I am seeing.


Video link:  https://vimeo.com/170266606
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 04, 2023, 08:47:33 AM
1992 South Sandwich was very difficult https://youtu.be/d5B2oo9-Sjw
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 04, 2023, 09:02:06 AM
Mindful of the adage “everything is easy for the guy who doesn’t have to do it”, the conditions there now as reported by both the crew and local weather data indicates that there is nothing unexpected or which wasn’t anticipated.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 04, 2023, 10:15:15 AM
I have to disagree.  If you are there for almost a week and have a small portion of the team having even set foot on the island, no actual antennas in the air, and looking at possibly another 5 - 6 days before you can add to where you are now, I doubt that was anticipated.

I think they are making the right decisions based on what they have and what they are faced with, but I don't really think this was close to the plan.  The first calm (meaning only 6 - 8ft swells) and reasonable day since their arrival looks to be Saturday - Feb 11.

They also have to be sure they can get off when they need to leave.  These are very tough decisions.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on February 04, 2023, 10:30:01 AM
It’s a pity we don’t have a better idea of just what’s been done so far, pad prep for the shelters and ? Is a shelter already erected? We’re they on island for whole four days or we’re they “commuting” back to Marama? Just how much of their gear is now ashore and so on. On their website 3y0.no they show three steps, looks like even Step1 might be too hard. I hope not.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 04, 2023, 10:55:50 AM
It’s a pity we don’t have a better idea of just what’s been done so far, pad prep for the shelters and ? Is a shelter already erected? We’re they on island for whole four days or we’re they “commuting” back to Marama? Just how much of their gear is now ashore and so on. On their website 3y0.no they show three steps, looks like even Step1 might be too hard. I hope not.

The latest pics on FB show a ladder, a small amount of gear and a latrine. Hopefully the pics were taken as soon as they landed and not day four.

Gino
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 04, 2023, 11:01:44 AM
Here is the VP8STI  2016 South Sandwich video. Very similar conditions to Bouvet from what I am seeing.


Video link:  https://vimeo.com/170266606

It Brings back memories Paul.
You really had some first class Dxpeditions.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 04, 2023, 03:02:52 PM
I have to disagree.  If you are there for almost a week and have a small portion of the team having even set foot on the island, no actual antennas in the air, and looking at possibly another 5 - 6 days before you can add to where you are now, I doubt that was anticipated.

I think they are making the right decisions based on what they have and what they are faced with, but I don't really think this was close to the plan.  The first calm (meaning only 6 - 8ft swells) and reasonable day since their arrival looks to be Saturday - Feb 11.

They also have to be sure they can get off when they need to leave.  These are very tough decisions.

Ed  N1UR

I think one thing for sure is, especially if you need them for an ATNO - try to get them in the log sooner than later! If they have to wrap up early or cut their time short (it's already going to be a reduced setup).. you don't want to waste any time!

It's somewhat quiet at work - might use some vacation time for more chair-time for this.

See you all in the pileups!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 04, 2023, 06:17:44 PM
I took a good look at the weather conditions for the next week, even 10 days out. It is only getting worse, and continues to get worse every day.

I'm holding out slim hope (less than 10% I suppose) that this DXpedition can get on the air from Bouvet, on any frequency.  Hopefully we get pleasantly surprised, but given that we've heard the last 5 days appear to have been a rough go - those were the best weather days, I don't have a warm, fuzzy feeling the next 5 or 10 days can bring any relief.  I just don't see how you can shelter on-land, build antennas, fuel a generator in 40, 50, 60 knot winds. How?

I also expect the Marama to constantly move to the leeward side of Bouvet to try and shelter.  Watching the winds - one hour they're from the SW, then West, Then North, and cycle back again.  Anchors are expensive and I don't believe you can just sit on the anchor in almost hurricane strength winds.  Sitting ducks.

I don't know about you guys, but from the helicopter pass video from a couple years ago, I can see a conex trailer or two on the West side of Bouvet.  I'd be "borrowing" those West side conex trailers for shelter.  At least it may be an option.  What they gonna' do, put you in jail?  You know they're probably buckled down tight from past use.  The Norvegia Research Station (https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-most-remote-island-in-the-world-is-home-to-seals-seabirds-and-an-internet-toplevel-domain) appears to be inland and only reachable by chopper, so that's out.

Man oh man, I sure hope they can weather this - forget about radio - there's 16 souls onboard.  NOTHING is more important to them right now but their safety - nothing.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0UA on February 04, 2023, 07:27:27 PM
Quote
Man oh man, I sure hope they can weather this - forget about radio - there's 16 souls onboard.  NOTHING is more important to them right now but their safety - nothing.

+1 on this. They need to be thinking about safety. Maybe a little radio later if things improve.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4NYY on February 04, 2023, 07:28:47 PM
I'm going to finally chime in on this after following their news.

First, I am stunned any the life threatening conditions these people are enduring just to get people like me a ATNO on a very rare entity. The conditions, not limited to, 10 days each way on a sailboat (not including days awaiting to get ashore), cold, ice, snow, ridiculous winds, ridiculous swells, climbing heights the heights of Point Du Hoc, leave me at a loss for words as to why anyone would do this. We did a couple "Islands on the Air", and we had enormous trouble raising antennas in 20-25 mph winds, and that was in 50 degree April weather. I cannot imagine what they are going thru. And then if they get all the above, off the boat and set up, they are going to be sitting in tents for weeks enduring the same ridiculous winds, in frigid temps.  And for what? An ANTO? This place is a rock, coated with snow and ice. Nothing more. I don't even understand why the ARRL decides to make these places, along with some reefs, considered as entities.

Please be careful, stay safe. If they get set up, great. If they cannot get set up, abort, and get out in one piece. But please don't take a chance that can cause injury or death. These people may be some of the most courageous people I have ever seen. I would never do this, even if I was still in my 20s. Wish them luck. 

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3OD on February 04, 2023, 10:17:08 PM
Old Sailors saying:

Below latitude 40 degrees south there is no law.
Below 50 degrees south, there is no god.
Bouvet is 54 degrees South in the furious 50's and screaming 60's.
They will need all the luck that they can get!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 05, 2023, 12:10:40 AM
This is a stupid question but why is 54S so bad, the North of Ireland is 54N and we are a small rock in a big ocean all be it a lot larger than Bouvet but we don't see the extremes they do, same for further North like TF SM OY ect ??

I tried asking on the FB group about what they have managed to get onto the Island after 4 days but it wasn't approved so that sort of says a lot,

Thanks
Trevor

Old Sailors saying:

Below latitude 40 degrees south there is no law.
Below 50 degrees south, there is no god.
Bouvet is 54 degrees South in the furious 50's and screaming 60's.
They will need all the luck that they can get!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 05, 2023, 01:38:59 AM
I tried asking on the FB group about what they have managed to get onto the Island after 4 days but it wasn't approved so that sort of says a lot,
Only the admin is posting in the 3Y0J Facebook group. All others may comment on his posts, but it does not seem like they are permitted to make their own posts. I presume this is to keep things organized.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: G0HVQ on February 05, 2023, 01:53:20 AM
This is a stupid question but why is 54S so bad, the North of Ireland is 54N and we are a small rock in a big ocean all be it a lot larger than Bouvet but we don't see the extremes they do, same for further North like TF SM OY ect ??

I'm no an expert but I imagine it's because the islands down there are tiny compared to the huge expanse of ocean: there's next to nothing between South Africa and South America, so the storms have plenty of water over which to increase intensity. Up here in the north of the planet the islands you mention are fairly close to other big land masses, which will calm them down before they get too strong. If you think about hurricanes, they form over the ocean but as soon as they hit land mass their intensity generally decreases.

Still hoping we get a shot at Bouvet this time, it's never been active whilst I've been on HF. But as everyone else says, safety first, looking at those pics it's much harder than I was imagining.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 05, 2023, 03:21:30 AM
latest Facebook update:



3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
3Y0J Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA says,
During the weekend the 3Y0J team has adjusted our plans. We are currently preparing this Sunday morning to land essential supplies to survive on the island, and build the camp to manage the upcoming storm predicted for Thursday. In addition, we will attempt to land radio equipment in a difficult operation during the most favorable time slots. This landing depends on the conditions at Bouvet which have proven to be very difficult. The setup is a small scale setup that, if we succeed, will possibly be extended. More info later.
73, 3Y0J team

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3YP on February 05, 2023, 03:48:00 AM
The landing spot chosen cannot be safely activated - best option is to relocate the boat and land at Nyrøysa base on the northwest corner of Bouvet.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 05, 2023, 04:01:46 AM
Isn't that not allowed by the Norwegian authorities??

The landing spot chosen cannot be safely activated - best option is to relocate the boat and land at Nyrøysa base on the northwest corner of Bouvet.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 05, 2023, 04:13:41 AM
N5PG was seeking confirmation of how far they had gotten in the 4 days.  There's the answer.  Basically, what we saw on the FB pictures is it.  And the pictures of all the barrels ready to go on the boat says it all. 

I agree with N0UN.  If they only got that far with the weather they had, its hard to imagine getting enough on shore to make a go at this.  Will be very interesting to see what they accomplish today.  Weather today is not any better than the best days during this past week by the way.

They do get a great window next weekend.  The problem there is to decide what to get on that you can then get off. 

I think they do get on the air at this point.  But this could easily be a 20,000 Q go.  Its days of being a 200,000 Q go are gone.  Even 100,000 is likely no longer possible.

Hopefully we get a clear, non-cryptic, explanation of where we are and where the goal is to go while they are at sea riding out the storm.

I have to hand it to these guys.  They are trying.  I think they just came to a gun fight with a knife and that reality is starting to set in.

Ed N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 05, 2023, 04:16:41 AM
my thoughts are we might be looking a vertical only operation if the winds are that bad. i also wondering if the weight of the 5 kw generators might be the problem. did they take any smaller generators?
my hope is to hear them if i hear them then i would like to work them it should be fun. i have worked quite a few of the ops from tough dxcc when they had 100 and wire and generally got 1 qso here is hoping. and that they are safe. i think the next operation to 3y would be a massive one with a big ship and helicopter
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 05, 2023, 04:43:52 AM
I'm sure most of us would be happy if the got a loan of FT8WW's G5RV at this stage, as long as they make it on the air,

Joking aside, those of us at this a while will remember how well T32C did after the lost there container full of amps and yagi's the made over 210k QSO's with FT450's and vertical dipoles, Now the chances of 3Y0J making 200k is gone but if they could get a few simple Verticals on bands like 30 20 15 ect and just hammer away they might salvage something, as long as they can do it safely of course,

my thoughts are we might be looking a vertical only operation if the winds are that bad. i also wondering if the weight of the 5 kw generators might be the problem. did they take any smaller generators?
my hope is to hear them if i hear them then i would like to work them it should be fun. i have worked quite a few of the ops from tough dxcc when they had 100 and wire and generally got 1 qso here is hoping. and that they are safe. i think the next operation to 3y would be a massive one with a big ship and helicopter
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 05, 2023, 07:07:41 AM

Man oh man, I sure hope they can weather this - forget about radio - there's 16 souls onboard.  NOTHING is more important to them right now but their safety - nothing.

NØUN

Completely agree!!  It sounds like they are in for some rough weather ahead.. gotta put life safety first above all.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K6OK on February 05, 2023, 09:02:28 AM
This is a stupid question but why is 54S so bad, the North of Ireland is 54N and we are a small rock in a big ocean all be it a lot larger than Bouvet but we don't see the extremes they do, same for further North like TF SM OY ect ??

I'll take a crack at it... The South Pole is at 9,000 ft elevation.  Cold air sinks on top of the pole and spreads radially away from the pole.  As it descends to sea level it becomes a katabatic wind.  The Earth's rotation imparts a curving path and the winds rotate around Antarctica at that latitude.  There are no land masses to slow down the wind, it's open water all the way around.  The North Pole is different, it's at sea level and at 50 N there's a great deal of land mass (Canada, Siberia, etc.) that moderate winds.  That and the Gulf Stream help moderate temperatures for Ireland/UK.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 05, 2023, 09:07:29 AM
Quote
we might be looking a vertical only operation if the winds are that bad.

Team Vertical has demonstrated that verticals on islands can work exceedingly well.  The conditions for that approach, being very close to the ocean aren't there, but the signal going over a lot of salt water is there.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K6OK on February 05, 2023, 09:11:41 AM
Bouvet belongs to Norway, so maybe the Norwegian weather service is a good source for wx forecasts?

https://www.yr.no/en/forecast/graph/2-3371122/Norway/Bouvet%20Island/Bouvet%20Island

They might have an opening on Tuesday the 7th to do station building?  Partly sunny and the wind speed drops to 8 m/sec (18 mph).
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 05, 2023, 09:20:25 AM
Quote
The landing spot chosen cannot be safely activated - best option is to relocate the boat and land at Nyrøysa base on the northwest corner of Bouvet.

Because Nyrøysa is an endangered species area, that base is no longer allowed.  Just forget about it.

This location was chosen because a long ago expedition activated it.  It is the only other place I know about that has ever been activated.  But, given that Nyrøysa is out, then short of taking a helicopter to the top of the glacier, this is about all there is.

We are (again) seeing the creeping prohibition on Amateur Radio DXing that is plaguing us.  At this point, environmental restrictions may be a bigger factor than political poo bahs that are afraid to allow it.

I hope for great success, still, somehow.  But I could also see the captain telling them that, at some point, it is just plain inadvisable to continue going ashore and it is time to break whatever camp they have and get out of dodge.  That happened in South Sandwich and it has no doubt happened in other places.

Is Bouvet really available if it takes three expeditions to get 100,000 QSOs?  Do we really collectively have that kind of money for one location?  Is Peter I also in the same boat now?

I don't know if the Braveheart would have made any difference here, but I suspect the crew is missing its extra power right about now.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 05, 2023, 09:38:16 AM
I am really hoping this works out and I think there still is a chance for  50-80K contacts to happen.  But.....

If this does not work out and they have to abort then I am hopeful that someone will go back at the peak of the cycle and try again.  There are just way to many wealthy Ham Operators across the globe who want and need Bouvet to just let the dream die completely.

If 3Y0J do manage to only get a day or two of limited operation then you can expect that on day one the Sat calls will be going out and the select few will be the only ones who know where to find them and at what time.
The second day might be for the public but it will be such a feeding frenzy that only a few from NA will make it and the Majority of contacts will be from the EU.

The select few who will get scheduled contacts are the big sponsors, the friends and well known hams with the deep pockets. I see this as just plain business, those who paid big $$ and helped to make the dxpedition happen get rewarded.  It's only fair.

The downside is that I doubt another dxpedition will be funded again once they are in the logs.


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 05, 2023, 10:07:10 AM
The downside is that I doubt another dxpedition will be funded again once they are in the logs.
I think this will be the last attempted activation of Bouvet for an extremely long time, full stop. This was just shy of $1M, and the one with the broken ship was in the same range. At this point, I think to do it successfully might require the kind of money that cannot be raised within the amateur community, not to mention an icebreaker-class ship, a chopper, unlimited time and the ability to wait out storms for weeks, etc. I still hope they can salvage some time on the air, even if it's far less than originally anticipated, but obviously safety has to take precedence here.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 05, 2023, 10:25:40 AM
Could very well be the best plan yet (as crazy as it sounded at the time):

https://www.on4ww.be/bouvet2016.html (https://www.on4ww.be/bouvet2016.html)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 05, 2023, 10:51:15 AM
It is sunset right now at Cape Fie (1845Z).

Looking at the weather this week, I see no way this can happen. Is the Captain going to allow some of the team to stay on the island, the rest on the vessel?  Pull up anchor?  Abort?  I'm sure the captain has probably seen enough - he's experienced in this weather.

I just don't see it happening.  Hopefully I'm wrong.

If they didn't use today to get the stuff OFF the island, then what?  Locked in for another "one helluva' ride"?

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/cape-fie.png)


NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 05, 2023, 11:00:14 AM
Quote
Could very well be the best plan yet (as crazy as it sounded at the time):

I remember that plan.  As details trickled out, I remember it sounding less like a plan and more like a suicide mission.

I think I said so at the time and gave it no money.  "One man" operations to places like this are extremely high risk.

This is a hobby and if necessary, maybe we need to define the DXCC rules for more realism.  They didn't come from on high and we don't have to have a maximally expensive version of the hobby.

If, for instance, for selected entities, we allowed /MM within, say, 50 miles, we could get them activated for far, far less money and risk.  And with greater reliability.  I would put Bouvet, Heard, and Peter I (at least) in this category.  Maybe South Sandwich also, which has a very rickety activation plan, though it has worked.

Some of this far south stuff is just crazy.

We stay at homes may not like a concept like that, but it isn't our necks on the line.  We forget, sometimes, that the game is very different (finances, risk) for the guys that put in the show.  But it is we that make the rules for the show.

And, though we don't pay as much, we do pay for these things.  If we made these places cheaper, other places would be activated more often also.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 05, 2023, 11:12:56 AM
Even speaking selfishly, safety should always be first and foremost.  The Norwegian authorities seem to be pretty laissez-faire about permits, but you could easily see that changing on a dime if someone got seriously hurt or worse.  It's not just about getting our Qs now, it's about not messing things up for future operations, if any.

I hope these guys will take a deep breath and bail out if they aren't entirely confident in their ability to do this safely.  Getting stuck ashore is the nightmare scenario for everyone.  Looking at the photos of those long faces, I feel genuinely sorry for them.  For some of the guys, this is their first and probably last DXpedition.  I hope they can salvage something.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 05, 2023, 11:23:42 AM
Quote
Could very well be the best plan yet (as crazy as it sounded at the time):

If, for instance, for selected entities, we allowed /MM within, say, 50 miles, we could get them activated for far, far less money and risk.

Maybe a bit closer than 50 miles - maybe close enough to make a good selfie pic with the island in the background? Kinda like Gus Browning "may" have done?

http://www.callingdx.com/BOUVET-1.png



Randy / WB9LUR

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 05, 2023, 11:30:07 AM
Quote
Could very well be the best plan yet (as crazy as it sounded at the time):

If, for instance, for selected entities, we allowed /MM within, say, 50 miles, we could get them activated for far, far less money and risk.

Maybe a bit closer than 50 miles - maybe close enough to make a good selfie pic with the island in the background? Kinda like Gus Browning "may" have done?

http://www.callingdx.com/BOUVET-1.png



Randy / WB9LUR

As if the perfect picture - ergo selfie - can't be made with Photoshop.
The moment the DXAC adopts 'close is good enough' I will quit the DXCC programme and further pursue the last zones I need for a full 5BWAZ. For me it's boots on the ground, no exceptions.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 05, 2023, 12:07:49 PM



Maybe a bit closer than 50 miles - maybe close enough to make a good selfie pic with the island in the background? Kinda like Gus Browning "may" have done?






Randy / WB9LUR
Seems you didn't know Gus Browning.

As to the "close enough" nonsense, credibility matters.

Meanwhile, winds around Bouvet are still around 30 knots which isn't atypical or unpredicted. Let the talking heads continue...
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 05, 2023, 02:03:04 PM
Have all the ops at least been on the island based on the photos?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 05, 2023, 02:38:21 PM
Doesn't sound like it.  Only 4 ops have been on the island I believe. 

Ed N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 05, 2023, 03:28:32 PM
Quote
As to the "close enough" nonsense, credibility matters.

So is do-ability and do-ability for a price.

If everyone knows, up front, what the rules are, there's no problem.  Moreover, we can certainly prove, with today's GPS technology, that they were where they say they were.  It's no harder and no different than proving that one actually made it to the bottom tip of Big Bend to that tiny patch of land that is in that grid in the US.

We already have several special areas, like Western Sahara, for which we have made special rules.  So, it's not like we have a pristine set of inviolable rules today.

What we have in DXCC is a set of rules blessed by nothing but history. And, we can change it if it strengthens the program.

Having a half dozen DXCC that cost one to three million dollars to adequately activate seems like a poor way to run this particular railroad.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 05, 2023, 03:44:58 PM
Could very well be the best plan yet (as crazy as it sounded at the time):

https://www.on4ww.be/bouvet2016.html (https://www.on4ww.be/bouvet2016.html)

NØUN

 I remember that guy as well. If you are going to dream, dream big. It would have been interesting to see what he might have accomplished if he did get the $250,000...............We sure have advanced far 9 years. Take a look at the photos of his examples of a computer & satellite phone. Prehistoric by today's standards.

                                                                                Tom KH0/KC0W     
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 05, 2023, 03:56:20 PM
It's amazing to me that a Dog needs surgery and someone can raise $200K on gofundme and yet 3 million Ham operators cannot raise $1.5 million to do a full scale Dxpedition with a big ship and helicopters.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 05, 2023, 04:07:17 PM
Quote
As to the "close enough" nonsense, credibility matters.

So is do-ability and do-ability for a price.

If everyone knows, up front, what the rules are, there's no problem.  Moreover, we can certainly prove, with today's GPS technology, that they were where they say they were.  It's no harder and no different than proving that one actually made it to the bottom tip of Big Bend to that tiny patch of land that is in that grid in the US.

We already have several special areas, like Western Sahara, for which we have made special rules.  So, it's not like we have a pristine set of inviolable rules today.

What we have in DXCC is a set of rules blessed by nothing but history. And, we can change it if it strengthens the program.

Having a half dozen DXCC that cost one to three million dollars to adequately activate seems like a poor way to run this particular railroad.
To state the obvious, it’s been done numerous times for various amounts.

Thus far, the only thing special here is the incessant unfounded speculation with a dash of “it’s hard to do” as some dubious rationalization for changing the rules.

Arguably, the technology today makes it easier - no need to carry separate transmitters, receivers, no genset which weigh a “ton”, much better nav equipment, much better weather prediction tools, more reliable equipment, etc…
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W5WS on February 05, 2023, 04:46:19 PM
It's amazing to me that a Dog needs surgery and someone can raise $200K on gofundme and yet 3 million Ham operators cannot raise $1.5 million to do a full scale Dxpedition with a big ship and helicopters.

We can and do raise money for near 7 figure DXpeditions, the question is how often can we be expected to do that?  Once a year?  The DX community is ageing well past retirement.  Most are on fixed incomes and some have made their fortunes, or are at least comfortable.  I help fund as many as I can individually and as a member of my local club (LSDXA) and NCDXF.  When I look at individual sponsors on DXpedition websites it's always the same 50-100 callsigns.  I don't know how to get more hams to step up or what the answer is but I think we'll see less and less of the mega-DXpeditions.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 05, 2023, 05:10:25 PM
If that's the case it must be an extremely dangerous approach, to go through all they have been through and not (yet) have stepped on the island!

There appears to be a fairly good weather window Tuesday from noon to 6pm only, after that it's very bad.



Doesn't sound like it.  Only 4 ops have been on the island I believe. 

Ed N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 05, 2023, 07:22:06 PM
We can and do raise money for near 7 figure DXpeditions, the question is how often can we be expected to do that?  Once a year?  The DX community is ageing well past retirement.  Most are on fixed incomes and some have made their fortunes, or are at least comfortable.  I help fund as many as I can individually and as a member of my local club (LSDXA) and NCDXF.  When I look at individual sponsors on DXpedition websites it's always the same 50-100 callsigns.  I don't know how to get more hams to step up or what the answer is but I think we'll see less and less of the mega-DXpeditions.

I know what you mean, it feels hopeless!
If this continues there is no way that anybody is ever going to get to HR in the future.  There is only so long that a person can be stuck at a certain number of entities before they give up.  I was talking to a good friend yesterday, we both are roughly at the same amount worked and he is always an Optimist.  The guy sounded gutted by what has happened to 3Y0J.  It was the first time I have ever heard him say that he is giving up on reaching HR.

 He agrees with many of you that no one is going back there if this fails.
 I feel like someone will go back at the peak of the cycle, but if this ends up being just a 1-2 thousand contact Dxpedition then yeah I think the big guns of the Hobby will be in the Log and the interest will die.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 05, 2023, 07:29:15 PM
Quote
Thus far, the only thing special here is the incessant unfounded speculation with a dash of “it’s hard to do” as some dubious rationalization for changing the rules.

It is hard to do.

But, more importantly, it is expensive.  This is new territory for us.

It wasn't that long ago -- five or ten years ago -- that 300,000 was a big money, top end DXpedition.

They are now regularly topping 750,000.  There hasn't been that much inflation, but even if there was, it's a lot of dollars in absolute terms.  We do not currently have the demonstrated capacity to have more than one of these in a year.  So, that's a maximum of one of this class activated per year and probably not that often.

Moreover, while I understand we've had some failures before, it is not looking very good for our ability to activate places like Bouvet and Peter I for any price.  We lost the Braveheart crew.  It seems to matter.  We may spend a lot of money until we find a replacement.

I hope I am still proven wrong.  I hope these guys get us 50,000 or even 100,000 Qs still.  Despite everything, not impossible.

But so far, the last two expeditions to Bouvet have struggled to get anyone ashore.  We're nearly 2 million dollars into Bouvet in recent years and at current course and speed, we'll end up with nothing like the 100,000 or more QSOs we normally get for "difficult" activations.  Or, more importantly, the 20,000 or so unique QSOs that seems to be necessary to meet the need for ATNO.

If you want a DX where you have to be on the air 40 years to make #1 HR, well, that's fine for you.  I like a puzzle that is difficult, but not that ridiculously rare. But if we start having enough entities that take that long, then even HR in a reasonable timeframe looks sketchy.  Right now, I'm not saying that it is -- I think a really good op can still do HR in one sunspot cycle.  But it is not as easy for even that as it once was.

Maybe it's just a run of bad luck.  I don't "do" that kind of DXpeditioning.  It would be nice if the "bad luck" idea were proven true.  But, I so far see two different Bouvet groups, not rookies, ending up watching Bouvet go by from the ship as opposed to setting up camp and making it happen after spending very significant sums.  May that change soon.

But if it doesn't, we as a community have to go beyond platitudes of "it's always been hard" and really start to think about the kind of DX we want.   There are only so many dollars to activate places.  If we spend them all on these guys, it means a lot of other stuff doesn't happen that might have with a little more sane set of rules.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 05, 2023, 07:45:56 PM
I don't think getting Honor Roll, or even #1 is such a big deal.  I got Honor Roll a few years ago and never sent for the plaque, stickers or anything.  Sitting at 336 - would I like 340?  Sure, but it ain't the end of the world, life gets in the way.  Tell you the truth I'm ready for some warm days so I can ride my motorcycles.  This winter in Denver started off mild, but has sucked for over a month now.  Really sucked.

I did point my antenna at 133 degrees as the sun was going down tonight and called CQ DX on 20M Phone. Long Path & Short Path open with Hams on microphones!  Here's a few in the log:

HS0, 9V1, YB1, VP8, PY, HI8, YS1, CE, CX, VP2, LU amongst others.

I'm listening to FR5EC on Reunion right now (0342Z).

I figure it's sunrise on Bouvet a few minutes ago and just maybe they'll get on land with 100 watts and a wire today ;)

I reset my goals a while back after a good friend of mine waited and waited and waited for Navassa, just to get the chip shot, then die less than a year later.  Once he had them all, he just plain quit.  I did not like the way he went out, it hurt my head to see all that anticipation, then to watch and listen to him quit once he got it.  And not just radio.  I asked his daughter if she placed his #1 plaque in his coffin, and she said they fried him and, "do you want his plaque?"  I thought I may NEVER want a #1 plaque after that!  After all, this whole radio thing is just kinda' a weird hobby that few understand anyway.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 05, 2023, 08:13:17 PM
Quote
I reset my goals a while back after a good friend of mine waited and waited and waited for Navassa, just to get the chip shot, then die less than a year later.  Once he had them all, he just plain quit.  I did not like the way he went out, it hurt my head to see all that anticipation, then to watch and listen to him quit once he got it.  And not just radio.  I asked his daughter if she placed his #1 plaque in his coffin, and she said they fried him and, "do you want his plaque?"  I thought I may NEVER want a #1 plaque after that!  After all, this whole radio thing is just kinda' a weird hobby that few understand anyway.

We disagree about many things, but here I am largely if not entirely in agreement with you.

I have decided not to care about #1 HR either.  For reasons I have amply documented.

So for me, personally, I'll laugh hard (and you can all join me) if I ever actually do it.  Even if it is 10 minutes before the dirt nap.  It's not an objective.  I missed Glorioso while looking for a job.  I am indifferent to whether I ever get P5.  There's a handful of others, none of which are looking good for the imaginable future. 

But, I did know another friend who quit after he made HR.  Turns out, his neighbors complained and he decided to listen to them (legally, he could have told them off).  So, he made HR and promptly sold out, went into photography.  Which is sad because he was the guy who taught me to read a pileup.

Since I am not motivated by #1 HR (or by SSB or CW HR for that matter), I am running out of objectives.

My big one was 5BWAZ.  That was the one I really wanted.  I've almost completed a interesting-to-me-only 2nd time on that one.  I've nearly completed DXCC Challenge 2500 (probably this year or next).

But, west of the Mississippi, DXCC Challenge 3000 is a 40 or 50 year accomplishment and I just don't have enough time left on the planet to get there.  I've done the math; it's near metaphysical certainty.  In fact, I know only one person west of Texas that has _ever_ done it.  So, DXCC 3000 is out.  #1 HR is out.  I've got other awards like Triple Play, WAS on every band from 160m to 2m and like things. 

I'm just not a contester.

I guess I just have to hope DX Marathon keeps me going.

But, like you, I'm just not going to play a mug's game.  There are places to go and things to see before I get too decrepit to do them.  I'm not going to spend all my time sitting at the rig, waiting for the never gonna happen in time.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AF5CC on February 05, 2023, 08:33:16 PM
I had to admit a few years ago I will never make honor roll.  So what?  Back when I was a General I was thrilled to make DXCC!  There are still plenty of band and mode countries to chase to keep me interested, plus grids on 6m and the satellites.

Hope they are all safe off the coast of Bouvet.

73 John AF5CC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 05, 2023, 08:49:45 PM
After all, this whole radio thing is just kinda' a weird hobby that few understand anyway.

 I have run into some REAL weirdo’s in this hobby. I mean, really strange people. “Eccentric” might be a better description of them. I guess my detractors might say the same about me, but man, there are some certifiably crazy F’n amateurs out there.

                Tom KH0/KC0W
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on February 05, 2023, 08:53:43 PM
It's amazing to me that a Dog needs surgery and someone can raise $200K on gofundme and yet 3 million Ham operators cannot raise $1.5 million to do a full scale Dxpedition with a big ship and helicopters.

You are trying to compare Apples to Oranges. A dog needing surgery tugs on the heart, whereas most people outside of Amateur Radio could care less about an activation by crazy hams to put it on the air. Also, I believe the vast majority of DX'pedition funds come from NA. We can only do so much, and it would take a more concerted effort by other worldwide clubs to put on a 1.5 Million dollar DX'pedition. I just don't see that happening anytime soon.

Although I'm not in favor of /MM offshore counting as the entity, I would be in favor of a RIB (Radio In a Box) where a team would go to the island, setup the antennas, drop off the RIB, and then do their operations from the safety and comfort of the ship. Not only would this be safer, but considerably less expensive as you don't have to equip for the tents, generators, generator fuel, etc. And it might make it easier to get permission for an operation as you don't have 11 operators trouncing around the island. Just a initial team for setup and teardown.

John K7KB
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 05, 2023, 09:03:24 PM
I think a really good op can still do HR in one sunspot cycle.  But it is not as easy for even that as it once was.

I had about 275 when I got back into the hobby in 2014, one week after FT5ZM went QRT (FML).  I have only missed P5 since then, and I'm still at 324, so I was curious about this guess.  According to ClubLog, the following 15 entities have not been active since 2012, which I'm going to call roughly one solar cycle ago:

2007 AVES ISLAND
2008 BOUVET ISLAND
2009 CROZET ISLAND
2009 DESECHEO ISLAND
2009 GLORIOSO ISLAND
2003 JOHNSTON ISLAND
2005 KURE ISLAND
2012 MALPELO ISLAND
2011 MIDWAY ISLAND
2006 PETER 1 ISLAND
2003 PRATAS ISLAND
2002 SAN FELIX ISLANDS
2007 SCARBOROUGH REEF
2012 SWAINS ISLAND
2006 TURKMENISTAN

So at least in this past cycle, it was not possible.  I'm 41 and I never expect to make HR, let alone HR #1.  I've never been motivated by HR but I am motivated by ATNOs.  From 3D2CR in 2019 to T33T in 2022, I didn't work a single new one.  I expected that when I got to HR but not in the low 320s.  On I go, for now, but there are times I've come very close to throwing in the towel.  I think the last few years have been really an odd time for many DXers.  Looking at my list, the future ain't too bright either.

Edit: looks like the data is slightly stale.  Crozet has obviously been on recently, so make that 14.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UK on February 05, 2023, 09:24:49 PM
Interesting discussion. I made Honor Roll and I have little red sticker in my shack drawer. I won't reach #1   I am sure.

I need these few now

3Y           PETER 1 ISLAND                                     
BS7H        SCARBOROUGH REEF    
BV9P        PRATAS   ISLAND       
FR/G          GLORIOSO ISLAND
FT5X          KERGUELEN  ISLAND    
P5,HM      DPRK (NORTH KOREA)   

I have a card for

CE0X   SAN FELIX ISLAND   and
EZ          TURKMENISTAN

and these two are sitting in my drawer but I have never had them registered with the ARRL.  I enjoy working a dxpedition when they come on but the ATNO thrill has gone lol.  I don't operate as much as I did but I still enjoy operating.  I have a bunch of Mount Athos qso's that I never QSL'ed but I don't loose any sleep over it.

73 Mark N1UK
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: FUFFNER on February 05, 2023, 10:09:50 PM
I received my basic 100 country Mixed DXCC in 1980.  Only had wire and vertical antennas.  Finally put up a small triband beam at 35 feet in 1981.  Achieved #1HR in 2012 with 7O6T Yemen operation.  Since I started DXing in the 60's, I can say that it took me over 40 years to make #1 Mixed HR.  So, this just proves that you gotta have "staying power"

As the old song goes, "nobody promised you a rose garden".  Just enjoy the hobby and savor the DX that's out there.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 05, 2023, 10:14:15 PM
I have decided not to care about #1 HR either.
So for me, personally, I'll laugh hard (and you can all join me) if I ever actually do it.  Even if it is 10 minutes before the dirt nap.  It's not an objective.  I missed Glorioso while looking for a job.  I am indifferent to whether I ever get P5.  There's a handful of others, none of which are looking good for the imaginable future. 

But, I did know another friend who quit after he made HR.  Turns out, his neighbors complained and he decided to listen to them (legally, he could have told them off).  So, he made HR and promptly sold out, went into photography.  Which is sad because he was the guy who taught me to read a pileup.
...My big one was 5BWAZ.  That was the one I really wanted.  I've almost completed a interesting-to-me-only 2nd time on that one.  I've nearly completed DXCC Challenge 2500 (probably this year or next).

I could never give up on my HR#1 quest, even though the three I still need might never come around in my lifetime (Pratas, San Felix, and P5). I will never give up on these so long as I'm still alive. 5B-WAZ is a goal I'd sell body parts to complete, but Z24 and Z26 on 80 just aren't possible from here barring nothing short of a full-on propagation miracle, during which I'll likely be asleep. One of those 5-minutes-ever-11-years kinda things. 10 Band DXCC is complete, and I'm literally 99.9% finished with 10-Band WAS (Alaska on 6 is all I need). After that, DXCC Challenge 3000 is the last hurdle, but again, not possible from my home station.

What if I were to get them all? I'd still be on the air making DX contacts and playing in contests, because I'm a DXer. I've dedicated the last 22 years of my life to chasing DX and I'll be damned if I'll ever stop. I still get a tingle in my spine when I can work Mongolia, the Philippines, or Singapore, even on bands I have both entities worked and confirmed dozens of times. Until the current geopolitical nightmare, I'd still enjoyed putting as many Russians in the log as possible when the band opens there, even the dime-a-dozen Zone 16 stations. And in DX contests, in the late afternoon when the LUs and PYs are in hot and heavy I'll rotate the array around to the northwest and try to run JAs, because the path is harder, and the distances are longer.

So yeah, I want the plaques and paper for working all the major awards, and I'll fight tooth and nail for every one. And you know what'll be nice? Next time Navassa, Aves, Clipperton, Ducie, or Malpelo come up, I won't have to fight for a single band-slot since I got 'em 9x3, but I'll still relish the contacts I do make simply because DX IS!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 05, 2023, 10:35:57 PM
After all, this whole radio thing is just kinda' a weird hobby that few understand anyway.

 I have run into some REAL weirdo’s in this hobby. I mean, really strange people. “Eccentric” might be a better description of them. I guess my detractors might say the same about me, but man, there are some certifiably crazy F’n amateurs out there.

                Tom KH0/KC0W

Speaking of weird!  Did you know if you hold down the alt key and reach over to your number pad and type 0216 you'll get a Ø?  So KHØ/KCØW.

How weird is that?

"follow me for more stupid Ham Radio related tips"

Bwahahahahahaha!

Here's another tip for CW DXers!   Stash That Paddle  (https://www.n0un.net/elevated-radio/)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 05, 2023, 11:37:14 PM
Pete both those zones are on almost daily, 3W1T has a big signal from Z26 and I even worked 2 from Z24 last Friday, and all I have is a center loaded 1/4 wave with a very high noise floor, unless you are trying to do it all in CW or SSB of course,

Thanks
Trevor
EI2GLB

 


but Z24 and Z26 on 80 just aren't possible from here barring nothing short of a full-on propagation miracle, during which I'll likely be asleep.!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 06, 2023, 12:43:08 AM
I've been informally reworking my Mixed HR since I got to Arizona in 2012.

This is what's left:

HK0/M   MALPELO ISLAND
KP5   DESECHEO ISLAND
YK   SYRIA
PY0S   SAINT PETER AND PAUL ROCKS
KH4   MIDWAY ISLAND
PY0T   TRINDADE & MARTIM VAZ ISLANDS
YV0   AVES ISLAND
EZ   TURKMENISTAN
3Y/P   PETER 1 ISLAND
ZS8   PRINCE EDWARD & MARION ISLANDS
FT5X   KERGUELEN ISLAND
KH7K   KURE ISLAND
CE0X   SAN FELIX ISLANDS
KH3   JOHNSTON ISLAND
3Y/B   BOUVET ISLAND
ZL8   KERMADEC ISLAND (all time)
FR/G   GLORIOSO ISLAND (all time)
BS7H   SCARBOROUGH REEF (all time)
BV9P   PRATAS ISLAND (all time)
P5   DPRK (NORTH KOREA) (all time)

Some of this may well have been available as I do not have this plugged into my spotting network (which I filter) and so may have missed some that are "All time Arizona" but not ATNO.

Still, it is probably within one or two of what a serious, from scratch effort would have looked like starting on the US Southwest in March of 2012.  I did not have my tower until 2013, so there's only one DXCC that I got that year that I haven't reworked since with the bigger setup.


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: US5WE on February 06, 2023, 12:55:09 AM

Although I'm not in favor of /MM offshore counting as the entity, I would be in favor of a RIB (Radio In a Box) where a team would go to the island, setup the antennas, drop off the RIB, and then do their operations from the safety and comfort of the ship. Not only would this be safer, but considerably less expensive as you don't have to equip for the tents, generators, generator fuel, etc. And it might make it easier to get permission for an operation as you don't have 11 operators trouncing around the island. Just a initial team for setup and teardown.

John K7KB
As far as I know it is called remote operation and is legal in most countries. Wi-Fi link is easy to make as well  RHR's HH2AA is an excellent and efficient example.
The problem is that the generators have to be on the island and team members have to go there to refuel them.
Another approach is solar and wind power as Prof. David Pommerenke 7O/DL7ZM did in Yemen.
https://cloud.tugraz.at/index.php/s/PMnSANwiAGCMYg6
I wonder if anyone had ever tried to run a KW station 24/7 using this method.
Sorry to read more and more pessimistic posts but hope the Norwegian guys will show up on the air shortly. Wishing them luck.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 06, 2023, 03:58:05 AM
Back to the topic of the current 3Y0J DXpedition, another 36 hours of no update.  They have another day or so of reasonable weather before the captain is going to take control of this for the remaining days until the weekend.  The last update was quite non-specific about what they are actually trying to accomplish this week other than to forget about the original plans.

It will be really interesting to see what the next communication is.  Could be anywhere from a couple of them are on the island and will start operating tomorrow and hoping for the best, to the crew is heading to ZS and calling it a day....

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1VT on February 06, 2023, 05:24:15 AM
I'm also at 324.  I have just two dozen left for 2500 Challenge points.  I've gotten a dozen in the last month.
I haven't decided whether to work on my 6M for ten band DXCC, and get the 32 I need during the summer E skip season, or just play golf and work on my rose garden.

I've decided not to make  considerable upgrade to my antenna farm, like many DXers.  I run 600W to a collection  of wire antennas between the trees in my back yard.  A tower and beam would certainly help in making SSB contacts, as many times I'm not loud enough to break phone pileups, but I'll take my chances that there will be enough CW and digital activity to get the ones I need.

These days it often takes a lot of work to hear weak DX on the low bands.  Combined with difficult propagation paths, this can result in the frustration that Pete sees in getting those last two zones.  I heard the HS0 on 80 but knew the path wasn't good enough for him to hear me.  Europe is lucky in that many of the Pacific entities have locations free of significant noise generating electrical infrastructures.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 06, 2023, 08:09:23 AM
Bouvet has another visitor:

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-06-090345.png)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 06, 2023, 08:17:37 AM
Bouvet has another visitor:

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-06-090345.png)

NØUN

Dom 3D2USU !!  :)
If there's one who can do it it's definitely Dom. He is a DOer.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0OW on February 06, 2023, 08:19:55 AM
from garmin tracker:

3Y0J Bouvet
Feb 6, 2023 10:15:00 AM  (1615 utc)

Speed: 0.00 mph    Course: N/A
Elevation: 111.55 ft.    Batt: Normal
Lat: -54.444261    Lon: 3.413830
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 06, 2023, 08:31:00 AM
Pete both those zones are on almost daily, 3W1T has a big signal from Z26 and I even worked 2 from Z24 last Friday, and all I have is a center loaded 1/4 wave with a very high noise floor, unless you are trying to do it all in CW or SSB of course,
Trevor EI2GLB
Those two zones are an order of magnitude easier from Ireland than they are from the east coast of the U.S., unfortunately. Both of those zones are not only polar paths (26 is 0° and 24 is about 350°), but the distances are over 8500 miles from here. The nearest analog to that for you would be the South Pacific islands in Z32, however there are far more operators (and DXpeditions) in those islands, and it also includes ZL.

The entities in zones 24 and 26 are not known for lowband activity. I've been at it for decades and never once copied a Z26 station, and only copied a Z24 station once, for about 5 minutes (at -20 to -24 on FT8). I'm there every day  during the winter months at my sunset. I even spent a fortune chasing 3W1T on RHR when I see the spots and no go.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 06, 2023, 08:34:29 AM
Looks like that cargo ship is leaving...

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-06-093111.png)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 06, 2023, 08:40:13 AM
I reset my goals a while back after a good friend of mine waited and waited and waited for Navassa, just to get the chip shot, then die less than a year later.  Once he had them all, he just plain quit.  I did not like the way he went out, it hurt my head to see all that anticipation, then to watch and listen to him quit once he got it.  And not just radio.  I asked his daughter if she placed his #1 plaque in his coffin, and she said they fried him and, "do you want his plaque?"  I thought I may NEVER want a #1 plaque after that!  After all, this whole radio thing is just kinda' a weird hobby that few understand anyway.

My friend Al also died a year or so after achieving #1 HR. Those of you who have been around for a while, may remember him from the reflectors when he went by Bubba. He had a unique since of humor, which some didn't appreciate. He coined the term "lass too" for those who checked in to list lizard knets. He was nothing like the image he portrayed on the reflector.

When I drove a truck over-the-road, there was a rest area near his house in CT. He would come pick me up, and we hung out for a while at his house. I got the sad news of his passing while I was working in Iraq. This is the link to his obituary, which reveals what he was really all about...  Al Jaras (SK) (https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/hartfordcourant/name/al-jaras-obituary?id=27057571)

I believe it's great your friend achieved his goal, and my friend did as well. If we never reach HR or #1, it's not the end of the world. And if we do make it to #1 HR, that's not the end of the world either. Or hobby has so many facets, no one can live long enough to achieve everything. Just with ARRL, we have bands to work, states, grids, etc. CQ Magazine gives us WAZ, US Counties, and WPX awards. With IOTA, no one has every island. There's more awards out there, these are the highlights that come to mind.

As for those on here with long faces claiming they'll never make it to HR, and if 3Y0J is successful or not, there will never be another DXpedition to that island, C'mon man. Never say never, we don't know what's in the future. I don't remember when I first got HR, it was sometime in the early 2000s. Got booted off HR 3 times with additions to the DXCC list. Every contact I've ever made on HF was done with wire antennas from my location. I'm sure I missed a lot while driving over-the-road up to 3 weeks at a time. Possibly could have P5 and the rocks had I been home, I'll never know.





Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 06, 2023, 08:43:46 AM
A lot of 3Y0J spots just came in all at once. Operating split on their expected frequencies. Spotters say it is coming from the right direction. Could this be real?

EDIT: It is! Confirmed on the 3Y0J Facebook group.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 06, 2023, 08:44:03 AM
Here's another tip for CW DXers!   Stash That Paddle  (https://www.n0un.net/elevated-radio/)

BRILLIANT! Absolutely genius! Why didn't I think of that?

I see you have that SignaLink next to the paddles ready to work some FT8. hehehehe...
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0OW on February 06, 2023, 08:44:30 AM
3y0j facebook says "on air"
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC2SST on February 06, 2023, 09:10:32 AM
And here I am, stuck at work.  Anyone else feel a touch of Bouvet flu coming on?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 06, 2023, 09:22:17 AM
POTA spotting page has 3Y0J, LA-2524 Bouvet Nature Reserve now.  Wonder if they will upload their logs?  LOL


Gino
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 06, 2023, 09:38:46 AM
Well done to the team, They have done the hard work now it's our turn to put the effort in to work them,

GL to everyone on here in the chase,

I'm stuck in work as well until Wednesday  :'(

Trevor
EI2GLB
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: G0HVQ on February 06, 2023, 09:40:11 AM
21.225 SSB...with usual mix of DQRM, callers on freq, policemen....but decent sig at the UK sunset. Hearing callers split up to 30kHz up.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 06, 2023, 10:13:46 AM
Quote
The 3Y0J Team was able to land yesterday at the island. Eight operators plus Peter are on the island. They managed to secure the tent and camp.

Due to the strong and challenging conditions, we are using two K3 radios running 100w, wire antennas, and the Honda generator. Please remember that the 3Y0J team will always be operating split. Never transmit on their frequency.

So far, looks like only EU copying.  Fingers crossed.

Quote
We ask that people that have Bouvet already confirmed on some bands please do not work us again to allow an opportunity to many others get Bouvet for an All Time New One

Good luck with that, lol
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 06, 2023, 11:05:42 AM
Yeah I only see EU stations but it's funny that when I turn my beam towards the EU I can hear a few US stations calling him  :-X

I forgot how many nut jobs come out of the woodwork to QRM these Dxpedtions.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5MOA on February 06, 2023, 11:13:37 AM
Looking on the prop charts for 15m on their website, we should start getting prop about the time eu loses it.

So we should only have to deal with the NA idiots.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 06, 2023, 11:14:28 AM
Yeah I only see EU stations but it's funny that when I turn my beam towards the EU I can hear a few US stations calling him  :-X

I forgot how many nut jobs come out of the woodwork to QRM these Dxpedtions.

They are using remote stations in EU, or using EU SDR's.

I recognized a few of the 15 Meter Kilocycle Cops voices and you can hear the remote knuckleheads that aren't smart enough to realize they are transmitting on the 3Y0J TX frequency.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 06, 2023, 11:29:48 AM
Anybody know when most DXpeditions transitioned from logging on paper to using computers?

Slightly curious if they got computers set up.  They aren't mentioned in their update.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K6OK on February 06, 2023, 12:01:23 PM

They are using remote stations in EU, or using EU SDR's.

NØUN

How exactly do you know this?  3Y0J was spotted on the RBN on the east coast (12m, CW), including skimmers at K1TTT and W3LPL.  I'll give the benefit of doubt that some US operators heard them without cheating.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 06, 2023, 12:14:17 PM

They are using remote stations in EU, or using EU SDR's.

NØUN

How exactly do you know this?  3Y0J was spotted on the RBN on the east coast (12m, CW), including skimmers at K1TTT and W3LPL.  I'll give the benefit of doubt that some US operators heard them without cheating.

I know some of them that were in the 15M Phone pileup earlier. I know their station setups and exactly what they were doing.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 06, 2023, 12:32:00 PM
No copy in NC yet but it is still a bit early in the day. I worked them /MM on 15m CW at 2115z, and at the time their signal was fairly weak but building. That is about an hour from now, so I am hoping to be able to copy them soon. I would imagine that their /MM signal would be somewhat comparable to the setup they are using now, but that of course depends on how much the terrain of the island is coming into play. On the boat, at least there was nothing but saltwater all around.

73
Mason - KM4SII
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 06, 2023, 12:48:23 PM
DQRM on 30m is crazy and they are super weak id love to find the SDR people use that can hear them,
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 06, 2023, 12:59:52 PM
I'd love to find the SDR people use that can hear them,
I can hear them on the KiwiSDR in Kenya. The one in South Africa is at capacity ;D
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 06, 2023, 01:12:13 PM
DQRM on 30m is crazy and they are super weak id love to find the SDR people use that can hear them,

I can't hear them on 30 but sure can hear the DQRM'ers  :(
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 06, 2023, 01:12:46 PM
Has anyone on here even heard them?
The cluster is full of even EU stations that say they hear nothing.
WK2X is the only station in the US that I know has worked them on 15M CW.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 06, 2023, 01:45:32 PM
I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 06, 2023, 02:07:02 PM
I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.

73 Rich KB8GAE
It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 06, 2023, 02:12:00 PM
I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.

73 Rich KB8GAE
It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.

Yup. I heard someone 20 over S9 "working people" for a few mins.

All of this - typical 1st day idiots. A complete zoo of people with maybe 1/2 a brain cell combined.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 06, 2023, 02:12:40 PM
Yeah I only see EU stations but it's funny that when I turn my beam towards the EU I can hear a few US stations calling him  :-X

I forgot how many nut jobs come out of the woodwork to QRM these Dxpedtions.

They are using remote stations in EU, or using EU SDR's.

I recognized a few of the 15 Meter Kilocycle Cops voices and you can hear the remote knuckleheads that aren't smart enough to realize they are transmitting on the 3Y0J TX frequency.

NØUN
Yeah I kind of figured that was what was happening.  I should start writing down the call signs  ;).
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 06, 2023, 02:16:14 PM
I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.
It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.
Remind me again why "old-school" CW DXing is so much better? There are far too many seriously mentally-ill people out there today to make this enjoyable. I'm just after one CW QSO at this point, and one digital.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 06, 2023, 02:17:02 PM
I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.

73 Rich KB8GAE
It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.

Yup. I heard someone 20 over S9 "working people" for a few mins.

All of this - typical 1st day idiots. A complete zoo of people with maybe 1/2 a brain cell combined.
This is where experience comes in.  You can always tell a weak SSB or CW signal from the Arctic area vs one that is coming from Somewhere else.  If it's not weak then that is another reason to be suspicious.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W5HVV on February 06, 2023, 02:19:33 PM
I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.
It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.
Remind me again why "old-school" CW DXing is so much better? There are far too many seriously mentally-ill people out there today to make this enjoyable. I'm just after one CW QSO at this point, and one digital.

30m CW is an utter clown-fest right now. I'm already sick of the DQRM...
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 06, 2023, 02:23:39 PM
I heard them on 30 CW about S5 with a 15khz pileup. They were so strong I wonder if it was a Slim.
It might have been, there are several guys throwing out the call sign to mess with the pileup.
Remind me again why "old-school" CW DXing is so much better?

I would suspect that many of the so-called "CW ops" that you are hearing are not frequent CW users. I'd wager that there are some phone / FT8  ops that even had to go out and buy a key.

Some of them will probably not recognize their own call if they should stumble in and break the pileup.

I'm at work right now. Reading the spots - kinda funny - from here. Probably won't seem so humorous when I get back to the radio later.

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 06, 2023, 02:30:11 PM

30m CW is an utter clown-fest right now. I'm already sick of the DQRM...

Someone has been "tuning" for the last 5 or so mins. It would be nice if their finals blew. I reckon some of these people never matured past grade school..

Hoping after they go to bed band conditions improve and we get a shot at hearing them in NA.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 06, 2023, 02:33:53 PM
I would suspect that many of the so-called "CW ops" that you are hearing are not frequent CW users. I'd wager that there are some phone / FT8  ops that even had to go out and buy a key.

A lot of the CW DQRM is so ritualized that I assume it's some kind of performance "art."

Features:
1) Almost always sent slowly with hand key.
2) Feigns utter obliviousness.
3) Will usually ask QRL? and wait for many affirmative responses before beginning an endless CQ.
4) At end of 90 second long CQ sent at 5 WPM with hand key, will pause 5 seconds to listen for responses before starting again.

Precision engineered to annoy the heck out of anyone on frequency.

Remember EAHSYL/EASSYL/EA5SYL?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W5HVV on February 06, 2023, 02:36:11 PM
Someone has been "tuning" for the last 5 or so mins. It would be nice if their finals blew. I reckon some of these people never matured past grade school..

Hoping after they go to bed band conditions improve and we get a shot at hearing them in NA.

I had the exact same thought :)

Hopefully this will all die down after a few days. After all, these cretins must get bored eventually, right?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on February 06, 2023, 02:45:02 PM
After listening on 30M for awhile, I will have to agree with others. Tell me again why CW is SO much better than FT8?

John K7KB
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1JX on February 06, 2023, 03:31:26 PM
Is the station on 10.115 CW now real or fake?  Very good at picking out callsigns, but sending more slowly than I might expect (~25 wpm).

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 06, 2023, 03:36:49 PM
Is the station on 10.115 CW now real or fake?  Very good at picking out callsigns, but sending more slowly than I might expect (~25 wpm).

I was trying to figure out the same. I haven't heard him identify at all - and seems a little too strong? Doesn't sound right to me. I mean... I guess WFWL just in case but I haven't heard him ID once in 20-30 mins so....
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE4YD on February 06, 2023, 03:40:51 PM
I think there are 2 stations on 10.115 the real one and a fake.
One is S9 in Middle TN on my puny inverted V the other barely audible.
Way too strong to be real.
73,
David KE4YD
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1JX on February 06, 2023, 03:51:53 PM
That's my guess, too.  The thing is, whoever it is really is working those stations and at a good clip, too.  EU and NA.

There's always a slim (har, har) chance it's real.

I think this one is going to be even harder than people thought for hams in NA. 

Good luck!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 06, 2023, 04:19:46 PM
Finally hearing them in NC (between the heavy DQRM). Not super strong... s3-4 which is right at my noise.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 06, 2023, 06:50:32 PM
I hope you are all running the regulation 200 watts when you tx on 30m :D
at least i can use 400 watts.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 06, 2023, 07:23:07 PM
Sunrise is at 0328Z and sunset at 1832Z.

Good to see them on land, overnight.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 06, 2023, 07:37:20 PM
Remember EAHSYL/EASSYL/EA5SYL?

 Yes, I do remember that famous infamous QRM'er but I can't recall the DXpedition he was QRMing. Was it the DXpedition to Navasa back in 2015 as K1N?

                                                                                             Tom KH0/KC0W   
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 06, 2023, 07:44:59 PM
Got him @0335 on 30m.  Tough as any low band QSO I ever made.  Sure hope they upload to ClubLog as I will be relieved to see it with my own two eyes.  Shoulda been pounding in at that time.  I think the mountain is really gonna make it tough for some parts of NA.  His SR.  Really good op.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 06, 2023, 08:02:55 PM
Got him @0335 on 30m.  Tough as any low band QSO I ever made.  Sure hope they upload to ClubLog as I will be relieved to see it with my own two eyes.  Shoulda been pounding in at that time.  I think the mountain is really gonna make it tough for some parts of NA.  His SR.  Really good op.

Congrats!! I haven't heard a thing on 30m yet. Yep, looking at the map on page 1 of this thread... certainly could be a challenge.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 06, 2023, 08:13:13 PM
Thanks.  It helped the the DQRMers had mostly gone away.  Just the LIDs calling on the wrong freq.  It helped that he was actually transmitting on 10.115.2 not 10.115 as he was being spotted.  The DQRMers were concentrated on 115 because they couldn't hear him and thought that was where he was.  Sooo...don't be afraid to tune around a bit.  I used the old ON4UN trick of raising the volume control to max and controlling volume with the RF gain.  With the 80 Hz APF and a 150 Hz passband that did the trick.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 06, 2023, 08:21:12 PM
Remember EAHSYL/EASSYL/EA5SYL?

 Yes, I do remember that famous infamous QRM'er but I can't recall the DXpedition he was QRMing. Was it the DXpedition to Navasa back in 2015 as K1N?

                                                                                             Tom KH0/KC0W   

Most major DXpeditions between 2010 and 2015.  He was eventually caught.  https://www.okdxf.eu/files/DFing-DQRM.pdf (https://www.okdxf.eu/files/DFing-DQRM.pdf)

Speaking of DFing, the long transmission frames of FT8 ought to make it easier to triangulate jammers, if there were any cops on the beat.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 06, 2023, 08:30:05 PM
Got him @0335 on 30m.  Tough as any low band QSO I ever made.  Sure hope they upload to ClubLog as I will be relieved to see it with my own two eyes.  Shoulda been pounding in at that time.  I think the mountain is really gonna make it tough for some parts of NA.  His SR.  Really good op.
Congrats on the QSO! Have not been able to hear them at any readable level since they briefly came out of the noise around 7:30 PM local. Only a faint trace now with a few dits making it through every now and then.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 06, 2023, 08:36:31 PM
Like K0RS said, lessons learned through the years.

I just put that DX Engineering 30M Vertical up a few weeks ago - magnificent!

#337 in the log. Recording in post.

3Y0J 30M CW (human mode) (https://www.n0un.net/3y0j-bouvet-is-on-the-air/)

NØUN

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 06, 2023, 08:43:20 PM
Just what he sounded like here, Lumpy.  I did exactly what you did.  I thought he came back to me and sent my call twice and a "?" and got a confirmation.  For others on the list, Lumpy and I are about 70 miles apart by air, separated by a few mountains.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 06, 2023, 09:21:36 PM
I think I just worked 3Y0J.  KJ4, two dahs and a fade.  Timing is correct.  I'm withholding the zebra, all things considered.

"Exciting if true!"
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 06, 2023, 09:31:03 PM
Just what he sounded like here, Lumpy.  I did exactly what you did.  I thought he came back to me and sent my call twice and a "?" and got a confirmation.  For others on the list, Lumpy and I are about 70 miles apart by air, separated by a few mountains.

Larry, he's really good signal now almost an hour after his sunrise. Presently hard to believe he's running 100 watts.  A great op too. No idea who it was, but he's definitely all business.

Had the FTDX101 down around 250 Hz with one of my SCAF-1's backing it up around 400 Hz.  And like you said the QRM was spotted below him and I could filter out the Bozo's.  We got lucky!  But isn't luck where skill and opportunity cross?

Let me know when you come down off the mountain, we'll ride and get lunch! You going to the Swapmeet Sunday?

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 06, 2023, 10:16:54 PM
Quite a bit stronger now on 30m CW! Nice readable s4 signal.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 06, 2023, 10:21:02 PM
Quite a bit stronger now on 30m CW! Nice readable s4 signal.
Yes, good signal here (0545-0620z and counting), but mostly working Japan. Edited to add that I finally got through shortly after posting initially—I hope—after hearing a couple of 5NN-TU calls for #333 worked on CW. Telling that all the DQRM went away after about 2 or 3am in Europe. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 06, 2023, 10:36:18 PM
Got him @0335 on 30m.  Tough as any low band QSO I ever made.  Sure hope they upload to ClubLog as I will be relieved to see it with my own two eyes.  Shoulda been pounding in at that time.  I think the mountain is really gonna make it tough for some parts of NA.  His SR.  Really good op.
Yes, first-class CW man. If they can get a couple of amps running, on bands where QRO can be used, I don't think it will be quite as bad as all that. He was strong here after 06z, and if he was only running 100W and a compromised antenna I'm thinking 15 and up will be fairly easy with power. Congrats on getting through the pile. I decided my evening hours would be better spent in front of the boob-tube then getting my taxes ready for the accountant.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 06, 2023, 10:58:18 PM
I *think* I can hear them on 10115.3 kHz on Long Path. Still hours until our sunset. Well after theirs already.
Nothing heard this morning apart from LIDs.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 06, 2023, 11:10:21 PM
I *think* I can hear them on 10115.3 kHz on Long Path. Still hours until our sunset. Well after theirs already.
Nothing heard this morning apart from LIDs.
Given the time you posted (around 07z), they're well into daylight on Bouvet by that time.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 06, 2023, 11:19:04 PM
I *think* I can hear them on 10115.3 kHz on Long Path. Still hours until our sunset. Well after theirs already.
Nothing heard this morning apart from LIDs.
Given the time you posted (around 07z), they're well into daylight on Bouvet by that time.
Still there very weak here, still well before our sunset. The pileup still goes up to 10143 kHz, so many are still hearing him. I would be able to work them now, if not for that HUGE pileup!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 06, 2023, 11:23:30 PM
I decided my evening hours would be better spent in front of the boob-tube then getting my taxes ready for the accountant.

 If you like a speedy tax return DON'T move here.

 The minimum tax return time is about one year with quite a few people waiting two years or more for their tax returns. For last 3 years I have waited an average of 18 months for mine. We pay no federal IRS income taxes here. We only pay income tax to the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianna Islands government. On the plus side personal income tax here is ridiculously low. I mean really low..................There is no sales tax & no property tax as well. You can own a 2 million dollar home (yes, they do exist here) and you will pay zero in property tax every year.   

 I digress, back to 3Y0J.


                                                                                    Tom KH0/KC0W   
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 06, 2023, 11:47:30 PM
If you like a speedy tax return DON'T move here.

 The minimum tax return time is about one year with quite a few people waiting two years or more for their tax returns
                                                                                    Tom KH0/KC0W
That was like me a few years ago. I was submitting multiple years tax returns after the Tax Office sent me a nasty letter! I've been keeping on top of it the past couple of years. They don't get anything off me anyway.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 07, 2023, 02:00:19 AM
Just worked on 21020 kHz! ATNO!
#330 I think.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EA0021SWL on February 07, 2023, 02:48:53 AM
Steve Hass
26 min  ·
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA has informed me that the 3Y0J Team has secured the campsite. They had a good night there last night. They will be running one station at night and two stations during the day. They will operate bands from 12m-30m. If you see a spot outside of those bands it’s a pirate. We will be operating CW & SSB at this time. Watch the DX Cluster for QSY information. If you already have Bouvet in your log please standby and let those operators who need Bouvet for an ATNO work us. There is a storm coming on Thursday that may affect operations. Please continue to watch for updates here.
73,
Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 07, 2023, 04:11:17 AM
Interesting that with 8 operators on the island, only one station on at night.  Does that make sense to anyone?  20M should be open to somewhere pretty much 24/7 with the solar cycle progress and if you can put up a 30M antenna, surely you can put up a 40M antenna, right?

It was also very interesting to see just how small the zodiacs they are using.  The compromises made to use the sailboat really cost them I think.  With a bit larger boats, they probably could have used the earlier last week reasonable conditions to get a lot on shore.

I really think they underestimated the zodiac landing challenge vs the typical conditions on Bouvet.

But at least they are on.  And no one is hurt.  That's not the worst outcome by any means.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 07, 2023, 04:27:24 AM
Interesting that with 8 operators on the island, only one station on at night.  Does that make sense to anyone?

No. Neither does not operating FT8 from day 1 onwards to give small peashooters and big guns ample chance to work them.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 07, 2023, 04:44:12 AM
All bands closed here this evening. Nothing heard on any band from them since just after I worked them, just as it got dark here.
Hopefully some propagation will return tomorrow. We are in the influence of a coronal hole high speed solar wind today.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 07, 2023, 05:00:01 AM
The big guns want there fill first the rest of us have to wait for the scraps at the end, this was never going to be one for the average guy,

Now wait for the NA guy's with his 1.5kw and a yagi at a 100ft plus to tell us that he is a small station as well  ;D

Interesting that with 8 operators on the island, only one station on at night.  Does that make sense to anyone?

No. Neither does not operating FT8 from day 1 onwards to give small peashooters and big guns ample chance to work them.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 07, 2023, 05:16:34 AM
Most major DXpeditions between 2010 and 2015.  He was eventually caught.  https://www.okdxf.eu/files/DFing-DQRM.pdf (https://www.okdxf.eu/files/DFing-DQRM.pdf)
"IARU Region 1 wrote to ‘EASSYL’ explaining that the offending station had been located very close to his address and asking for his help to identify the culprit."

That's all? And after all that work to catch him? I was hoping the Alpha Hotel was busted by authorities and publicly shamed. Still don't know who he is, other than someone west of Rome.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 07, 2023, 05:34:43 AM
Interesting that with 8 operators on the island, only one station on at night.  Does that make sense to anyone?  20M should be open to somewhere pretty much 24/7 with the solar cycle progress and if you can put up a 30M antenna, surely you can put up a 40M antenna, right?

It was also very interesting to see just how small the zodiacs they are using.  The compromises made to use the sailboat really cost them I think.  With a bit larger boats, they probably could have used the earlier last week reasonable conditions to get a lot on shore.

I really think they underestimated the zodiac landing challenge vs the typical conditions on Bouvet.

But at least they are on.  And no one is hurt.  That's not the worst outcome by any means.

Ed  N1UR

Speaking of zodiaks.    Yesterday Dom posted a picture on the Rebel DX facebook page of a black zodiak with a deflated pontoon. The pic had a dead seal in it.
He said the pic was a screen cap from a video from the 3Y0J facebook page that was posted the day before and then deleted.  There WAS a video of a dead seal washing around in the surf the day before. I watched it a couple of times and it is in fact  now gone from the 3Y0J page.  I never noticed the zodiak but I was watching the seal.    The picture Dom posted is now gone.    Interesting.

I agree that zodiak looked tiny to me considering what they planned to do with them.


Gino - KE8KMX

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 07, 2023, 07:28:00 AM
I decided my evening hours would be better spent in front of the boob-tube then getting my taxes ready for the accountant.
If you like a speedy tax return DON'T move here. The minimum tax return time is about one year with quite a few people waiting two years or more for their tax returns.
Well my refund days are long past. I'm a sole proprietorship and I don't make quarterly pre-payments, so I get royally hosed living in NJ. My accountant is a member of my Jeep club (my previous accountant was a big-name contester, K2TTT, who became an SK a few years back—F@#$ Cancer!), so at least he can distract me as he gives me the bad news. I have to program his GMRS radio and scanner for him as well.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 07, 2023, 07:35:36 AM
Steve Hass
26 min  ·
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA has informed me that the 3Y0J Team has secured the campsite. They had a good night there last night. They will be running one station at night and two stations during the day. They will operate bands from 12m-30m. If you see a spot outside of those bands it’s a pirate. We will be operating CW & SSB at this time. Watch the DX Cluster for QSY information. If you already have Bouvet in your log please standby and let those operators who need Bouvet for an ATNO work us. There is a storm coming on Thursday that may affect operations. Please continue to watch for updates here.
73,
Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/)

The pictures of that mountain wall behind them and the videos traveling in the zodiacs are telling.  How they managed to even get there, let alone land on the island, then get on the air in any capacity is beyond my comprehension.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB8VLC on February 07, 2023, 07:38:19 AM
Right now 15:37 utc there is a nut job on 21.225  on the 3Y frequency saying 59 thank you over and over looks like he is messing with people making them think they made a qso.

Ham radio sure Sounds a lot worse than 27 MHz does.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB8VLC on February 07, 2023, 08:12:32 AM
now it sounds like Elmer Fudd has a ham license and there is what sounds like 2 italians chatting away all at the same time on 21.225, lid fest doesn't even describe what this sounds like now.

You know that it's really bad when someone says on the local 2 meter chit chat channel that they would rather listen to KC4TVZ calling cq on 28.425 or W2NQ/7 on 14.205 instead of the lids on top of Bouvet.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 07, 2023, 08:41:51 AM
This is why the need to use FT8 they are not loud enough to keep there QRG clear, what ever about CW they are too weak for SSB until the get the amps and generator's unpacked (if they ever do)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0UA on February 07, 2023, 08:42:32 AM
Interesting that with 8 operators on the island, only one station on at night.  Does that make sense to anyone?

No. Neither does not operating FT8 from day 1 onwards to give small peashooters and big guns ample chance to work them.

That I don't understand either. They should concentrate on FT8, as their signals are impossible on SSB here with their present antennas, and near impossible here on CW. They are just barely a whisper. Not to mention the lid factor which is near non-existent on FT8 but is a huge factor on CW and SSB if anyone could actually hear them. If I am going to work them, and that possibility is looking less than optimal, it is for sure going to be on FT8 if at all.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 07, 2023, 08:47:54 AM
Waited until almost noon Eastern (1700 UTC) to go into office but no signs of the two daytime stations? Hopefully not bad news keeping them off-the-air today...

Maybe out installing / repairing / improving antennas / more stations???

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB8VLC on February 07, 2023, 09:18:05 AM
there is  a weak weak cw signal down in the noise on 18.072 more like a faint fart in the wind but even this signal is covered up 90% of the time by an endless supply of jammers and kilocycle cops sending UP UP UP lid and other garbage.

I think the poor antennas and weak signals just frustrated people to where the borderline nutjobs gave up any hope and decided to just mess it up for everyone.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K6OK on February 07, 2023, 09:39:46 AM
...They should concentrate on FT8...

The original plan was amplifiers for CW and SSB and 100 watts for FT-8.  With a downsized operation, assuming they can get a couple of amplifiers going, I think they should time-share CW, SSB, and 1,000 watts on FT-8.  If they do that on FT8 they can go 5 streams wide at 200 watts each and make 300+ Q's per hour easy.  They would hand out a lot more ATNO's that way.  -- Jim K6OK
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 07, 2023, 09:55:27 AM
...They should concentrate on FT8...

The original plan was amplifiers for CW and SSB and 100 watts for FT-8.  With a downsized operation, assuming they can get a couple of amplifiers going, I think they should time-share CW, SSB, and 1,000 watts on FT-8.  If they do that on FT8 they can go 5 streams wide at 200 watts each and make 300+ Q's per hour easy.  They would hand out a lot more ATNO's that way.  -- Jim K6OK

I have an SPE which is what I believe they are using, and it's a great amp.  I can't imagine running it for hours on end at full smoke on FT8.

Also, dividing power amongst multiple streams doesn't work like that.  From the manual, "if you are using N Slots signals, your average transmitted power will be P 0/(N Slots) and the power in each signal will be P 0/(N Slots)2. Thus, for N Slots = 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 the average power per signal will be down from P 0 by about 0, 6, 9.5, 12, and 14 dB, respectively."  For 1.5 kW in 5 streams, that's 60 watts per stream.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 07, 2023, 09:57:48 AM
I only gave them a 10% chance getting on the air.  Hope you bet against me.

After seeing where they are up the mountain "wall", and seeing what they have to do in a zodiac to even get to the island from the distant Marama, after closely watching the wind & weather forecasts - I give them less than 1% of getting any amplifier, beam, or heavy generator up there. I'd say zero chance, but my 10% observation was already wrong so I'll stick to 1%.

Hope you can see what they (and we) are up against. You don't need a Facebook account to see their posts, pictures or videos:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 07, 2023, 10:22:05 AM
I was home at lunch hoping to catch them on 15 either SSB or CW.  They moved to 21015 just as I started listening.  I could hear them, barely S1.  6 el yagi on 45 ft boom at 100 ft with a fantastic shot in that direction.  Terrain enhanced. 

Didn't bother calling.  Could hear lots of EU calling.  Some DQRM but clear copy on 3Y0J.

This one is not going to be a picnic.  Not sure why they are so specifically avoiding 20M.  Usually, when a DX pedition has a station promoting ATNOs its 20M 24/7.

Some very wierd choices being made by this team.

And I agree with N0UN, after seeing the zodiac they are using (or now using if the other one got busted up), there is no way big hardware is coming ashore.

Ed  N1UR 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7JQ on February 07, 2023, 10:23:15 AM
I only gave them a 10% chance getting on the air.  Hope you bet against me.

After seeing where they are up the mountain "wall", and seeing what they have to do in a zodiac to even get to the island from the distant Marama, after closely watching the wind & weather forecasts - I give them less than 1% of getting any amplifier, beam, or heavy generator up there. I'd say zero chance, but my 10% observation was already wrong so I'll stick to 1%.

Hope you can see what they (and we) are up against. You don't need a Facebook account to see their posts, pictures or videos:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129)

NØUN

1% sounds about right. Five guys in that Zodiac...looks like an over sized tire inner tube. They've got some big cajones navigating those waters in that thing.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 07, 2023, 10:37:10 AM


1% sounds about right. Five guys in that Zodiac...looks like an over sized tire inner tube. They've got some big cajones navigating those waters in that thing.
Although it may seem counter-intuitive, small is safer than large for a few reasons, principally to minimize the volume of water it might ‘take’ over the sides in rough conditions while maintaining the same buoyancy as a larger one.

Most world cruisers prefer smaller for that and it’s easier to control in rough water.

We used to have a 15ft inflatable but prefer the smaller one it replaced.
I think these guys know what they are doing.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on February 07, 2023, 10:49:08 AM
Well it's obvious they grossly overestimated what they could do with a Zodiac in transferring men and equipment. The 3Y0Z team had it right with the helicopters, if only the ship didn't have issues, we will never know how that could have turned out. Sure, you have to wait for decent conditions to transfer by chopper, but it seems a heck of a lot quicker and much more equipment can be transferred. 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 07, 2023, 10:52:52 AM
I could hear them, barely S1.  6 el yagi on 45 ft boom at 100 ft with a fantastic shot in that direction.  Terrain enhanced. 

This one is not going to be a picnic. 

And I agree with N0UN, after seeing the zodiac they are using (or now using if the other one got busted up), there is no way big hardware is coming ashore.

Ed  N1UR

Those of us with smaller stations have our work cut out for us for sure. Seeing what they have to contend with just getting on/onto the island I would not be surprised at all if this is the best we have to work with for the remainder - however long that might be. I've got a doublet up now.. but I'll probably wind up tossing up a delta loop to try for 30 or 20m. Looking at all the icy-rock in the antarctic seas... those two bands were the most consistently worked. Wouldn't hurt to pray to the propagation gods either  ;D
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 07, 2023, 10:54:37 AM
I only gave them a 10% chance getting on the air.  Hope you bet against me.

After seeing where they are up the mountain "wall", and seeing what they have to do in a zodiac to even get to the island from the distant Marama, after closely watching the wind & weather forecasts - I give them less than 1% of getting any amplifier, beam, or heavy generator up there. I'd say zero chance, but my 10% observation was already wrong so I'll stick to 1%.

Hope you can see what they (and we) are up against. You don't need a Facebook account to see their posts, pictures or videos:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129)

NØUN


I have an Elecraft KPA500 500w amp. It has a carry handle on the side, weighs 26 pounds and runs off of 110V.    I could carry it one handed up a ladder and up to their base camp.   I have a 2000w Champion invertor generator.  It weighs 47 pounds and sips gas.  About a gallon every 10-12 hours.   I could carry it one handed up a ladder and up to their base camp. It will run my KPA500, IC-7300 and a laptop.   A five gallon can of gas will run it for days.


A 1500w amp needs 220 and a genset that will run it is triple the size and weight of the invertor generator I have.   A generator that size also drinks fuel like a college student at a kegger.   I would not want to try and get a generator that size plus all the fuel you would need to run it for days on end up to that location.   

They might have their only small generator at camp with the big ones stranded on the sailboat.    I pray that these guys get home safely.


Gino


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 07, 2023, 10:56:25 AM
A agree with the "world cruiser" comment.  However most of them aren't trying to get a 120 lb 5kW generator and 500 gallons of fuel onto the beach.  They are just trying to get close to shore to hop over and wade in.  And the smaller Zodiac also makes for a smaller "hop".

Not sure if the other one was larger but what they show on that video is laughably small given the task to be performed.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W4AMP on February 07, 2023, 11:09:13 AM
Interesting that with 8 operators on the island, only one station on at night.  Does that make sense to anyone?

No. Neither does not operating FT8 from day 1 onwards to give small peashooters and big guns ample chance to work them.

 :o :o :o
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W4AMP on February 07, 2023, 11:13:54 AM
A REAL expedition gets on the air, and ops are complaining they are not doing enough FT8. Bless your heart.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 07, 2023, 11:16:32 AM
A agree with the "world cruiser" comment.  However most of them aren't trying to get a 120 lb 5kW generator and 500 gallons of fuel onto the beach.  They are just trying to get close to shore to hop over and wade in.  And the smaller Zodiac also makes for a smaller "hop".

Not sure if the other one was larger but what they show on that video is laughably small given the task to be performed.

Ed  N1UR

Cruisers use a dinghy as you would a car when going shopping but cruisers also carry multiple 5 gal diesel cans, multiple 5 gal water jugs, etc... in addition to the normal  groceries, equipment for repair including things like gensets and multiple people often where rocky exposed windward shoreline is all there is so the difference might not be as great as it might seem (other than temperature).

If it were me, I'd prefer a small dinghy and make multiple trips if necessary than risk it all for convenience.

As of now (1800Z) in florida, they are readable but weak on 17Mhz CW and inaudible on 21Mhz CW. I haven't tried calling as not needed but the Europeans are saying "great expedition" which translates to "I worked it"
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 07, 2023, 11:20:40 AM
A REAL expedition gets on the air, and ops are complaining they are not doing enough FT8. Bless your heart.

The complaint is that they are not trying to maximize the amount and extent geographically of Q's made.   Under their compomised working conditions FT8 makes the most sense to anyone without an emotional attachment to THEIR favorite mode/modes clouding rational thought.


Gino
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 07, 2023, 11:24:45 AM
It's now almost an hour past their sunset (1925Z) and they're still on the air so that's a good thing. I would think all zodiac trips back and forth to the Marama would be during daylight.

It appears they may be locked on the island for the next few hours/days as the winds are forecast to increase tremendously.  I suspect the big gusts will create big waves and swells and make travel back & forth impossible.

Listening to pileups - Good Lord there's some really mentally unstable folks in our hobby.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W4AMP on February 07, 2023, 11:27:39 AM
A REAL expedition gets on the air, and ops are complaining they are not doing enough FT8. Bless your heart.

The complaint is that they are not trying to maximize the amount and extent geographically of Q's made.   Under their compomised working conditions FT8 makes the most sense to anyone without an emotional attachment to THEIR favorite mode/modes clouding rational thought.


Gino

Everyone that wanted ssb/cw during the Crozet fiasco got mocked mercilessly. It's a two way street.

What happened to "use the mode needed to make the contact"?

73
Jim
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 07, 2023, 11:43:19 AM
I hear them on 30M but they are so dam weak that it makes zero sense calling.  Out of curiosity I went to one of those South African 3 second delay SDR radios and could not hear a thing from 3Y0J but I could still hear the US DQRMers loud and clear.  I did scan the pileup and it was a Wall of maybe 1000 stations calling.

2000 ft mountain, Wire Antennas and 100 Watts is not going to cut it for 99% of active DXers that need this one.

If anybody ever goes back there bring a dam Helicopter.  A Zodiac landing on that beach is just a waste of money!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K6OK on February 07, 2023, 11:50:38 AM
...They should concentrate on FT8...

The original plan was amplifiers for CW and SSB and 100 watts for FT-8.  With a downsized operation, assuming they can get a couple of amplifiers going, I think they should time-share CW, SSB, and 1,000 watts on FT-8.  If they do that on FT8 they can go 5 streams wide at 200 watts each and make 300+ Q's per hour easy.  They would hand out a lot more ATNO's that way.  -- Jim K6OK

I have an SPE which is what I believe they are using, and it's a great amp.  I can't imagine running it for hours on end at full smoke on FT8.

Also, dividing power amongst multiple streams doesn't work like that.  From the manual, "if you are using N Slots signals, your average transmitted power will be P 0/(N Slots) and the power in each signal will be P 0/(N Slots)2. Thus, for N Slots = 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 the average power per signal will be down from P 0 by about 0, 6, 9.5, 12, and 14 dB, respectively."  For 1.5 kW in 5 streams, that's 60 watts per stream.

1 kW on an SPE Expert 1.5K-FA is on MID setting isn't "full smoke," AFAIK.  FT-8 isn't as taxing as people say, it's only about a 45% duty cycle. Thank you for the education on FT-8 power division, I did not know that. 

Given the above let's say 800 watts 3 streams wide.  I bet they'd hit 200 Q's per hour and make a lot of people happy.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 07, 2023, 12:11:27 PM
1 kW on an SPE Expert 1.5K-FA is on MID setting isn't "full smoke," AFAIK.

True, but I always de-rate my equipment when running on FT8.  I've heard some horror stories.

Quote
Given the above let's say 800 watts 3 streams wide.

Surprisingly, they might actually have less heat dissipation if they ran at the full 1 kW.  I don't know, I just have read that these solid state amps have a fairly narrow range they like to operate in.  It's all moot anyway, since I don't see any way for them to get the fuel and generators up there, let alone the amps.  Would love to be wrong.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 07, 2023, 12:17:12 PM
Latest update on FB is very interesting.  Highlights: FT8 coming, but emphasis on CW and SSB.  Hoping for 7-10 more days.  The first log upload may be this weekend.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 07, 2023, 12:23:24 PM
".....It’s a challenge, but we hope we can stay on the island for some more days...."
Part of long post.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 07, 2023, 12:50:40 PM
Latest update on FB is very interesting.  Highlights: FT8 coming, but emphasis on CW and SSB.  Hoping for 7-10 more days.  The first log upload may be this weekend.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/)

Another "highlight" of this FB update is that they are swimming to shore from the zodiacs and floating in all the equipment.

"The beach landings were accomplished by holding onto a line attached to a buoy and floating 15 meters to the beach in our survival suits. This is quite extreme. We float in all the equipment as well. Then carry the equipment 800 feet up to the camp."

There is 0.00000% percent chance they will being running power on this DXpedition. 


I now think that pic Dom posted yesterday of a partially deflated zodiac is  authentic.   They tried to run up on shore with disastrous results.

Gino - KE8KMX

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB8VLC on February 07, 2023, 12:53:20 PM
18.072 is once again a lid fest, 3y0 is actually about 419 now but the lids are messing it up.

On a positive note there are very few kilocycle cops sending up up lid anymore, instead of sending up up up someone is giving the lids on 3y0j's 18.072 frequency a 5NN report and some are falling for it, this is more fun to listen too the spoofers than the actual dx.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 07, 2023, 12:58:50 PM
I watched a video where KO8SCA said they were bringing 5 Hyundai 5.5 KW diesel generators that weigh 260 lbs. dry. This allows them to use the same fuel as the boat. He didn't talk about the Honda generators. If the Honda's use gasoline I wonder how much gas they have.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 07, 2023, 01:08:19 PM
Amazing to hear how bad this has gone for them.  That was 150m not 15m - because he also said 500 ft.  Yes, they have completely abandoned using the zodiac to get on shore for this whole trip it seems. Float out and float back to the bouy that is 500ft off shore.  Wow.

It will 100W and wires for the rest of it - sure looks like.  And they "hope" to be on the island another 7 - 10 days.  That would be 1 week short of the planned departure.  Not sure why on that.

This is quickly becoming a sad Dxpedition for this group.  It must be devastating to be down what they are now doing from all of the grand plans on the sail over.

They are on the air. Why concentrating on 30, 17, and 15 and skipping 20 is beyond me.  But it is what it is. Better work them by this weekend.  That's all I can say.  Have to hear them first....

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0UA on February 07, 2023, 01:16:48 PM
Everyone is expressing their opinions, so I will express mine, if anyone wants to hear it.

The guys have run into a severe problems so far, and it may and likely will get worse.
SO, stop screwing around with SSB and CW which no one can hear the SSB and darn few can hear the CW.

I have heard a little CW on 30 last night, but too darn weak for me to feel like I needed to call. I don't call unless I can reliably hear the DX.  Get on FT8 and STAY on FT8. It is the only hope for most of us. I am assuming of course that they won't be able to put up the beams and bring in the amps. I know from what I have heard so far, or to be more precise what I haven't heard so far, if I am going to work them it is going to be on FT8. And while my station is VERY modest, I have a lot more than some guys, and a quieter location than MANY.   Quit wasting time and get some FT8 stations on the air NOW. 

There I have said it, and I am sure it will pixx of some, but it is what I truly believe.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 07, 2023, 01:17:06 PM

Why concentrating on 30, 17, and 15 and skipping 20 is beyond me.


Ed, they are considering 20m as well:

"We are considering setting up 20m as well."

And as far as FT8. They have just discussed this today:

"We will focus on CW and phone but there will be FT8. We have just discussed this today."

Marvin VE3VEE

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 07, 2023, 01:59:53 PM
Quote
What happened to "use the mode needed to make the contact"?

Indeed.  And, I have a contact on 30m which, even with LIDS jamming 3Y0J and garbling the last response, is almost certainly good.

You do it the DX' way.

All that said, there's a lot to be said for FT8 in a circumstance like this from the expeditions' point of view.

They want people not to work them if they worked it on previous expeditions.  Fair enough.

But, FT8 gives a certainty to the audience other modes do not.  You get the RR73 from Bouvet, you are certainly in the log.  Something important when the uploads are not going to be at all concurrent.

Under these conditions, where anything above maybe one or two QSOs is going to look piggish, they are inviting insurance QSOs.

The question becomes one of rate.  With only 100 watts, running multiple streams, which is the reason FT8 is a rate king, becomes questionable as you have to cut power with enough streams.  I suspect they'll run some of it, especially to get Europe and maybe JA done.

But how much FT8 NA gets is a real question under these circumstances.

As for 20, there are times and places where 17 actually gives better results than 20.  Their propagation guides may tell them this is so.  Also, with 60 knot winds (gale force or nearly so), they may be doing whatever they can to minimize their footprint consistent with being heard as far away as possible. They are the ones working it -- I can hardly be critical of this gang.  They are going the extra mile to get anything done.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 07, 2023, 02:05:34 PM
Anybody willing to wager that the sponsors, foundations, clubs that donated all the big money to make this attempt have called for SSB and CW?  That's a smart bet.

I doubt anyone with deep pockets ever said, "hey, we'll give you $100,000 if you concentrate on FT8".  More like, "our members that fund this Foundation/Club have aged. The old white guys with the money to assist you want CW & Phone. Most wear a Life Line (https://www.lifeline.com/product/on-the-go/) and don't have phones, let alone play with that lazy, mindless automated computer scripted text messaging thingy.  If you want their big money, you'll have to do it their way."

Not to worry, Dom will go to Bouvet in December for all you FT8ers. Since he's a Rebel and concentrates his craft on FT8 and no big money will donate ahead of his operation (leaving him to self-fund it), maybe he'll come up with something like this for a confirmation after the fact:

FT8 = $25 - $30
SSB = $10
CW = $10
10 year wait - FREE

Sounds fair to me! Are we all in agreement?

 :)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB8VLC on February 07, 2023, 02:06:05 PM
Considering 20 meters really? what is their to consider about setting up 20meters?

 20 should have been their prime band of operation, they could have made 10 times the north american qso's as they have now on 20 alone.

Every prop program showed 20 being open longer to all regions and FT8 for all bands that they were on would have been a no brainer what with the qrp power, small antennas and blocked location.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 07, 2023, 02:18:22 PM
There should be no need for Dom to go there let him continue to Peter 1

100w spread over more than 2 streams is going to be very hard to copy,

They really need one of the big generators and a couple of amps

And continue the 2 stations and add 1 for Digi 24/7 on 20/30

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 07, 2023, 03:14:48 PM
 Silly me for never having a Facebook account. Below is what non-Facebook users see when they try looking at the Facebook page of of 3Y0j. You cannot scroll past nor get rid of the "Not logged in" announcement. 

(https://i.ibb.co/RBk7V3Y/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Br5wSyc)

                                           Tom KH0/KC0W   
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB2PKR on February 07, 2023, 03:18:08 PM
Silly me for never having a Facebook account. Below is what non-Facebook users see when they try looking at the Facebook page of of 3Y0j. You cannot scroll past nor get rid of the "Not logged in" announcement. 

(https://i.ibb.co/RBk7V3Y/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Br5wSyc)

                                           Tom KH0/From Facebook…

3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
Interview with 3Y0J Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA.
“Everything is OK in the camp. The guys are good. We have a few antennas up. Running some pileups and preparing for the storm which will arrive in a few hours and last until Thursday. The boat will pull away from the island a bit. The antennas and camp are being secured. The winds are expected to be 60 knots. 9 members will stay in the camp during the storm. They will try to run two bands this evening and tomorrow. They will take down one antenna. They will run 30m and 17m using the Spider Pole on 17 and the aluminum DX Engineering antenna on 30m. 
The operation has proved to be extremely difficult. The most extreme expedition I’ve been to. Setting up the camp has been a lot of work.
We will focus on CW and phone but there will be FT8. We have just discussed this today. We are running low power, only 100w. We have no amplifiers. We have three antennas set up. We are considering setting up 20m as well. So we will have 30, 20, 17, 15.
The beach landings were accomplished by holding onto a line attached to a buoy and floating 15 meters to the beach in our survival suits. This is quite extreme. We float in all the equipment as well. Then carry the equipment 800 feet up to the camp. We have videos of this. We spent a few days to set up the antennas and tent then prepared for the storm that is coming.
Everybody is in good shape. It’s quite hard to stay here. A lot of wind, but today was a quiet, nice, and sunny day . This will change, and there will be a lot of rain. The day we arrived was a lot of wind and rain. Activating Bouvet is not like activating an island in the Caribbean. It is really windy, cold, and exhausting to bring equipment up here. It’s a different DXpedition than we thought we should do. It’s a challenge, but we hope we can stay on the island for some more days.
Regarding dupes, please only call us if you hear us. We have very good receive here on Bouvais Island. We do not have any facility to upload the log on the island. We are saving on fuel and connection for this. When we get back to the vessel, we will likely upload. We don’t know when the first upload will be. Going to Marama is very time consuming project because of the procedure involved.  (Ken describes it.) The first upload may be in the weekend. Again, if you don’t hear us, don’t call us.
Nothing more to report. Hopefully people understand the complexity of this operation. Hopefully we will be able to stay another 7 to 10 days. We are working on plans for how to continue the operation despite the difficult weather conditions here at Bouvet.”
73,
Steve N2AJ

Sent from my iPad

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 07, 2023, 03:21:06 PM
Bash on regardless. They are there now - plenty of time for 20/20 hindsight later.

Almost got 'em on 30M last night - had less than an hour where I could hear them good enough to even try. They got "WB" - sent my call again - then they got "WB9" - sent my call again but when they came back next - had "WB9 -*-*-*" - garbled, QSB, QRN, distortion - even in the recording. Either a busted QSO or they worked somebody else. The back and forth timing on the CW was pretty tight though - who knows.

Will keep trying.

Randy / WB9LUR

 
ps - 20M may not be the relief we seek - lately even in the wee hours I've been hearing Oceania EU, Asia and Africa - frequently all at the exact same time. Can you imagine the whole world calling at once in one 15kHz segment?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 07, 2023, 03:25:25 PM
Again I heard exactly nothing on 10115 kHz this morning. This morning around 23z and a few hours earlier there were M-class solar flares. That won't help either.
I'm pretty sure about my 15 m CQ QSO yesterday evening. It "sounded" as I would expect a signal skimming the South Pole. Other VK3s calling were heard here with a huge auroral modulation. Later on there was a pirate reported on 15 CW, well after the band closed here. I heard them on 17 m SSB too, but my rig played up and I couldn't transmit SSB! After I did a database reset, it was ok again but they were gone. It's never done that before, but I rarely use SSB. For the rest of the night, all high bands were closed here.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4OGW on February 07, 2023, 03:33:03 PM
Silly me for never having a Facebook account. Below is what non-Facebook users see when they try looking at the Facebook page of of 3Y0j. You cannot scroll past nor get rid of the "Not logged in" announcement. 

                                           Tom KH0/KC0W   

I'm not sure what's wrong for you, but I don't have a FB account either and have no problem seeing the page (including photos, video, comments, etc).

Tor N4OGW
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB8VLC on February 07, 2023, 03:38:20 PM
VK3Hj, youre not missing anything by not hearing them on 10.115.

Right now it is the typical nut jobs, one idiot has been throwing a carrier for the past 15 minutes and several others are sending crap on top of each other and then there are the guys spoofing those who are calling the dx on 10.115 who obviously don't know what UP means.

These poor guys  who don't know what UP means leave thinking that they just made a valid QSO with 3y0j on 10.115 while it was just some lid impersonating the 3y.


to hear what you aren't missing listen here
http://websdr2.sdrutah.org:8902/index1a.html?tune=10114.3cw
pretty disgusting huh?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB8VLC on February 07, 2023, 03:52:51 PM
This poor operator crap is  not unique to 3Y0J either, it is now spreading to other unsuspecting dx across most bands.

 I was just talking with Eddie 3W1T in Hanoi, and I informed him that he  is now experiencing intentional jamming on his TX frequency of 28.485 while he is listening up 5 K so the lids are out in full force today messing around with everyone.

It also occurred earlier today on 12meter  CW with TR8CR being spoofed by similar crap and jammers.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 07, 2023, 04:05:36 PM
Silly me for never having a Facebook account. Below is what non-Facebook users see when they try looking at the Facebook page of of 3Y0j. You cannot scroll past nor get rid of the "Not logged in" announcement. 

(https://i.ibb.co/RBk7V3Y/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Br5wSyc)

                                           Tom KH0/KC0W   

Try this direct link for a couple videos and a few pictures:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/posts/4647245552066609/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/posts/4647245552066609/)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 07, 2023, 04:16:14 PM
to hear what you aren't missing listen here
Now that DQRM is ALL I was hearing here the past two mornings.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 07, 2023, 04:34:32 PM
I can hear them a little bit - I can hear him in there... I can make out the 599's and TU's but not quite able to clearly hear calls yet. A little better than last night. Not quite loud enough to call. Then of course the lidfest.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB8VLC on February 07, 2023, 04:35:23 PM
now a pota lid is cq on 10.115 when i am hearing 3y0j just fine the pota ass clobbers him

pota idiot signing kc4tvz of course a pirate
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 07, 2023, 04:46:50 PM
I was hearing them for an hour or so on 30M but between the Lids and the Pileup it was a impossible.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 07, 2023, 04:48:03 PM
I can hear them a little bit - I can hear him in there... I can make out the 599's and TU's but not quite able to clearly hear calls yet. A little better than last night. Not quite loud enough to call. Then of course the lidfest.
Seems about the same as last night. Came up out of the noise slightly around 01z, and again much stronger around 06z. Right now I am in the same boat as you... I can hear him but not well enough to call.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 07, 2023, 05:20:49 PM
Try this direct link for a couple videos and a few pictures:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/posts/4647245552066609/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/posts/4647245552066609/)

 I can access that one...........Thanks.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB8VLC on February 07, 2023, 05:29:49 PM
well it looks like my jammer comment over on DX maps really pissed them off, sorry to all the legit guys trying for a contact on 10.115 tonite because it looks like I brought a couple hundred mental patients out of their straight jackets.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 07, 2023, 05:36:17 PM
Try this direct link for a couple videos and a few pictures:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/posts/4647245552066609/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/3093983840726129/posts/4647245552066609/)

 I can access that one...........Thanks.

You're welcome.

Me thinks there's gonna' be a bunch of broken hearts when the logs are uploaded.  I can't tell you how many folks think they worked 3Y0J when first of all they called on the 3Y0J TX frequency, then some ass repeats their call with a 599 and a TU follows.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 07, 2023, 05:54:18 PM
Quote
I doubt anyone with deep pockets ever said, "hey, we'll give you $100,000 if you concentrate on FT8".

Here it is again:  The claim, a bit veiled this time, that the majority dislikes FT8.

Simply not true.

And, at least in the public statements I have heard over the years, both before and after FT8, what really seems to be the focus are these things, almost always in this order:

1.  Handing out as many ATNOs as possible (with unique calls being a tracked surrogate for it).
2.  Being active on as many bands as possible.  Bands, not modes.
3.  160m operation.
4.  6m operation.
5.  Maybe RTTY in the old days -- we used to see it on the last three days of an operation or some such.  Some big time operations did essentially no RTTY.  10 per cent was once outstanding; 5 per cent was good; negligible happened with fair frequency.  And I don't remember any big, organized group threatening to withhold funds if there was no RTTY.  Or giving money to ensure it.  Historically, RTTY HR just hasn't been a big focus.

Nobody, but nobody has ever had to promote CW or SSB or make it a condition of donation.  That's your fantasy and those of your three friends.

The rest of us just want ATNOs or bands.  Maybe one on each mode, but bands over modes if it comes to that.

When a group goes with a big crew -- eight or more ops -- nobody has to worry about CW and SSB.  A lot of the ops, paying $10K to $20K out of their own pocket, have a personal interest in operating pileups in one or both of those modes.  They will see to it that there's as much activity as circumstances allow.

Surely, despite all your whining, you know this.

It's only the very small groups that go hard over on FT8 and that's to get to a competitive Q total in a short period of time with few operators.

The rest of us will work FT8 if that is where the "action" is.  Some of us will state that under so-and-so a circumstance, it is an advantage.

But the vast majority of us are and were mode agnostic, so not only is nobody contributing to promote FT8, I see little need or interest in promoting CW or SSB.  Nobody has had to.  And, RTTY should have been promoted along the lines you suggest, but the truth is, we collectively haven't cared that much.  FT8 is there for rate.  That's it.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 07, 2023, 06:06:59 PM
This was the theme wasn't it?
Perhaps now there will be a better understanding of why dxers upgraded  their stations in the era of only the traditional modes.


What happened to "use the mode needed to make the contact"?

73
Jim
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 07, 2023, 06:14:49 PM
This was the theme wasn't it?
Perhaps now there will be a better understanding of why dxers upgraded  their stations in the era of only the traditional modes.


What happened to "use the mode needed to make the contact"?

73
Jim

"Do what the DX does"

"If you don't like it go there yourself and show them how to do it"

"better get used to it, it's the future"

"go look at Club Log stats"

"quit you're whining, you already lost"

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...

Bwahahahahaha!

NØUN


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 07, 2023, 06:18:45 PM
I said, if you noticed, to do what the DX does.  I advised NA stations to get it done on CW yesterday.

This time, so far, thanks to extraordinary constraints (probably mostly power), it's not FT8 for this one.

I'm not crying in my beer.  In fact, I worked it last night, 30 CW.

So, I'm practicing what I preach.

But you're still trying to be King Canute and you're still on the wrong side of the future.  In fact, you're on the wrong side of the present, despite how Bouvet is coming out.

Given what they're going through, I'd be happy with any thing.  And, in fact, I am.

This doesn't rescue any of your whining about FT8.  Not one bit.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 07, 2023, 06:26:56 PM


Me thinks there's gonna' be a bunch of broken hearts when the logs are uploaded.  I can't tell you how many folks think they worked 3Y0J when first of all they called on the 3Y0J TX frequency, then some ass repeats their call with a 599 and a TU follows.

NØUN
Here might be a few but those calling simplex deserve the disappointment.

All things considered, they are doing great and their rate seems good according to the cluster comments. And at least they got on the air which is better than failure.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 07, 2023, 06:32:54 PM


Me thinks there's gonna' be a bunch of broken hearts when the logs are uploaded.  I can't tell you how many folks think they worked 3Y0J when first of all they called on the 3Y0J TX frequency, then some ass repeats their call with a 599 and a TU follows.

NØUN
Here might be a few but those calling simplex deserve the disappointment.

All things considered, they are doing great and their rate seems good according to the cluster comments. And at least they got on the air which is better than failure.

+1

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 07, 2023, 06:42:58 PM
One thing I'm hearing a whole lot of from many quarters is "I think I worked them."  Even big guns saying it.  This one is tough for most.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 07, 2023, 06:43:52 PM
I still cannot fathom why they did not bring a big enough generator on shore so they could use an Amplifier.  Then the second question is why do they have two stations setup and 8 operators yet they are only using one operator at night?  A 100W radio is not consuming a whole lot of extra power and the Qs they could be making on 20M at night would be significant to the total.

It was also interesting that he was asked the question twice about FT8 and he avoided giving a direct answer.  Something tells me his big sponsors wanted assurances that this was not going to be an FT8 focused Dxpedition.

I got to say that listening to his CW op run the pileup was pretty amazing.
The only hitch was that a lot of guys seemed to be throwing out their calls without truly being able to hear the Op.  It looked like about 1 in 4 calls was an operator who did not respond when he called back.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 07, 2023, 06:53:15 PM

 Wow, the natives are getting really, really restless. I haven't seen people $hitting on a DXpedition like this in terms of crazy DX spots in many years.

 (https://i.ibb.co/gyWDKkL/Capture.jpg) (https://ibb.co/0q9fbHR)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 07, 2023, 07:02:52 PM

 Wow, the natives are getting really, really restless. I haven't seen people $hitting on a DXpedition like this in terms of crazy DX spots in many years.


Anonymous keyboard warriors hiding in the safety of their basement...
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 07, 2023, 07:11:18 PM
Pretty sure many could hear him fine and called in the hopes they would catch a non-DQRM window to hear the response. It's hard enough in the pileup, now you have to have luck catching a break from the DQRM. I have never heard it so bad.

I got to say that listening to his CW op run the pileup was pretty amazing.
The only hitch was that a lot of guys seemed to be throwing out their calls without truly being able to hear the Op.  It looked like about 1 in 4 calls was an operator who did not respond when he called back.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 07, 2023, 07:14:11 PM
Seems about the same as last night. Came up out of the noise slightly around 01z, and again much stronger around 06z. Right now I am in the same boat as you... I can hear him but not well enough to call.

I don't hear them anymore on 30m.. either conditions changed or perhaps they had to go off the air for a while (weather, etc). Will certainly keep an eye out later on. Looking at the other icy rocks in the Antarctic seas I've worked quite a few of them on 30m in these later hours.

If 30m (or 20m) will be the go-to bands.. I'm going to see what else I can whip up to improve my reception so that I can at least hop in the pileups.

Never give up!!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WD9Q on February 07, 2023, 07:17:45 PM
Pretty sure many could hear him fine and called in the hopes they would catch a non-DQRM window to hear the response. It's hard enough in the pileup, now you have to have luck catching a break from the DQRM. I have never heard it so bad.

I was hearing him pretty good last night and thought I heard my call but the QRM was so bad that I kept calling till I was able to hear my call sign in the clear......
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 07, 2023, 07:20:08 PM
Pretty sure many could hear him fine and called in the hopes they would catch a non-DQRM window to hear the response. It's hard enough in the pileup, now you have to have luck catching a break from the DQRM. I have never heard it so bad.


Oh that's definitely happened to me with DQRM'ers and Dxpeditions - many times. They'll start sending / tuning / whatever and I might hear the DX starting to come back to a KB2(Beeeeeeeep) or I'll hear (ditditditditditdit)CV.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W4AMP on February 07, 2023, 07:33:21 PM
I don't care how many they work or what mode they use.
The toughness of this group has earned my respect.
Improvise. Overcome. Adapt.
They are doing it.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 07, 2023, 08:38:21 PM
Quote
I still cannot fathom why they did not bring a big enough generator on shore so they could use an Amplifier. 

Have you seen how they get gear on and off the island?

There's no zodiac here.

Be grateful they got any kind of station on the island at all under these conditions.  Be even more grateful if they are alive and safe.

Even be grateful if the coming storm doesn't blow their modest station into the sea.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 07, 2023, 08:50:03 PM

Have you seen how they get gear on and off the island?

And your point is?
They planned for this beach landing and they knew exactly what the sea conditions would be like.  This is why others have used a Helicopter!
The storm is not something they could have anticipated but getting the proper Generator on the Beach by the fifth day of landing when you have typical Bouvet weather is something pretty critical to a 3Y0 Dxpedition.

You are of course already in the Log so of course you will defend them.

BTW can anybody tell me how to turn on the ignore option?
Everyone else seems to be using it except for me!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on February 07, 2023, 09:04:53 PM
Anybody willing to wager that the sponsors, foundations, clubs that donated all the big money to make this attempt have called for SSB and CW?  That's a smart bet
Actually the smart bet is that most sponsors, foundations, and clubs donated all the big money to make as many unique/ATNO contacts as possible, no matter what mode they were using.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 07, 2023, 09:22:37 PM
Decent copy now but the DQRM is absolutely insane. He's being covered for minutes at a time  :P
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 07, 2023, 09:25:02 PM
BTW can anybody tell me how to turn on the ignore option?
Everyone else seems to be using it except for me!

Profile > Modify Profile > Buddies/Ignore List > Edit Ignore List > Add To Ignore List > Callsign > Add

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5MOA on February 07, 2023, 09:25:47 PM
Finally heard him well enough (best I've heard them, 549) @0515z to listen to the pileup in my other ear and find the right hole.

Quite a few calling and most of the jammers must have gone.

Now I can go to sleep.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 07, 2023, 09:35:19 PM
Decent copy now but the DQRM is absolutely insane. He's being covered for minutes at a time  :P

He is surprisingly loud here right now.

I'm using the same antenna they are - a DX Engineering 30M Comtek Vertical (https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/com-30va).  Really heavy duty, awesome craftsmanship - $300 well spent me thinks.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 07, 2023, 10:34:01 PM
He is surprisingly loud here right now.

I'm using the same antenna they are - a DX Engineering 30M Comtek Vertical (https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/com-30va).  Really heavy duty, awesome craftsmanship - $300 well spent me thinks.

NØUN
I'm using a three element yagi, and beverages. They haven't been strong enough to be sure its them yet on 30 m. And I'm much closer and have a pretty clear shot at them.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 07, 2023, 11:11:23 PM
Very loud in here for a good 2+ hours on 30m. Didn't make it through yet but the first night for me of decent sigs. Hopefully we get more prop like this!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 07, 2023, 11:21:55 PM
Anyone know why they are not using the hoisting equipment which they specially made for the expedition?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 07, 2023, 11:33:54 PM
Very loud in here for a good 2+ hours on 30m. Didn't make it through yet but the first night for me of decent sigs. Hopefully we get more prop like this!
Same here... I've been trying for 2 hours and no luck, unfortunately. Signals again peaked in 06z hour and then started to fade around 07z. Called it quits at 0730z as his signal was getting too weak to copy.

73
Mason - KM4SII
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 08, 2023, 12:13:08 AM
If you can't get the equipment to the beach you can't hoist it,

Looks like the zodiacs are the issue they can't get the last 150m and you can't float a 500kg diesel generator in the sea unfortunately

Lucky they brought the little Honda but seemly there might be a shortage of petrol as they planned to use diesel, it was only to be used for charging tools and other stuff according to the original plan,

Anyone know why they are not using the hoisting equipment which they specially made for the expedition?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 08, 2023, 12:29:26 AM
If you can't get the equipment to the beach you can't hoist it,

Looks like the zodiacs are the issue they can't get the last 150m and you can't float a 500kg diesel generator in the sea unfortunately

Lucky they brought the little Honda but seemly there might be a shortage of petrol as they planned to use diesel, it was only to be used for charging tools and other stuff according to the original plan,

Anyone know why they are not using the hoisting equipment which they specially made for the expedition?

A 500kg diesel generator??  ???
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 08, 2023, 01:22:14 AM
If you can't get the equipment to the beach you can't hoist it,

Looks like the zodiacs are the issue they can't get the last 150m and you can't float a 500kg diesel generator in the sea unfortunately

Anyone know why they are not using the hoisting equipment which they specially made for the expedition?

It's 15m not 150m, see Facebook. 150 meters and a 500 kg diesel generator, you have a tendency to exaggerate matters.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK4WTN on February 08, 2023, 01:26:27 AM
Geez looking at some of the stupid comments on dx summit today re 3Y0J it makes me wonder why anyone would want to organise a dxpedition. These guys are virtually putting their lives in danger getting onto the island in very inhospitable conditions and there's people whinging that they are running without an amplifer. At least these guys have made the effort to get there and try to activate a rare dx entity. Its a shame to see that a few of our great amateur community behave like this. There was a time when ham radio operators were gentlemen.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 08, 2023, 01:29:29 AM
Listen to the actual interview with Ken and he clearly says 150m

And ok the generator actually weighs 150kg my bad I know nothing about generators,

Why don't you try to float one of those across your local swimming pool and then report back.


If you can't get the equipment to the beach you can't hoist it,

Looks like the zodiacs are the issue they can't get the last 150m and you can't float a 500kg diesel generator in the sea unfortunately

Anyone know why they are not using the hoisting equipment which they specially made for the expedition?

It's 15m not 150m, see Facebook. 150 meters and a 500 kg diesel generator, you obviously like to exaggerate matters.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 08, 2023, 01:54:14 AM
i think i got them we had a big opening to vk on 17m cw finger crossed.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 08, 2023, 02:04:49 AM
i think i got them we had a big opening to vk on 17m cw finger crossed.

Listening on 17m as we speak, Steve.  With the flux @185, thought there might be a chance of a freak opening.  No such luck.  Local time is 3am.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 08, 2023, 02:08:00 AM
17 m was my friend this evening, just after sunset. QSO with 3Y0J on CW, before the pileup and before the QRM Clowns meant I had a quick and easy QSO, two calls and in the log. THEN I worked 5A1AL on 17 m FT8, one I've been chasing for years!
I'd be rolling out the Dancing Unicorn for you, if I could catch her!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 08, 2023, 02:44:19 AM
OK you guys down under.  Is 15m still open there?  He's on 21105 FT8, F/H.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W5HVV on February 08, 2023, 02:58:10 AM
OK you guys down under.  Is 15m still open there?  He's on 21105 FT8, F/H.

He's not F/H -- transmitting in the odd sequence. Probably a pirate.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 08, 2023, 03:04:27 AM
They planned for this beach landing and they knew exactly what the sea conditions would be like.  This is why others have used a Helicopter!
The storm is not something they could have anticipated but getting the proper Generator on the Beach by the fifth day of landing when you have typical Bouvet weather is something pretty critical to a 3Y0 Dxpedition.

That doesn't make sense. 

With all of the planning that was done, if they knew exactly what the sea conditions would be, why wouldn't they have known what the weather would be? 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 08, 2023, 03:13:50 AM
He's not F/H -- transmitting in the odd sequence. Probably a pirate.

Yes, if not F/H, likely a pirate.  Operating plans stressed always F/H.  Not audible here.  15m still closed up like a drum.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 08, 2023, 03:29:06 AM
OK you guys down under.  Is 15m still open there?  He's on 21105 FT8, F/H.

 I'm not exactly down under but I haven't heard a peep out of 3Y0J on 15 meters yet.

 Even worse, whenever 3Y0J gets spotted on 15 meters I haven't heard a single Japanese station trying to work them. Antenna here on 15 meters is a 3 element Yagi. I've been on vacation from work all this week so I have dedicated some significant time to listening for 3Y0J. The barometer for working them will be if the JA's can hear them as well. Once that happens it will be controlled chaos. Imagine a country full of operators who will  NOT reply back to the DX station if the DX station gets their callsign wrong by even a single letter..............The Japanese are the best.

                                                                         Tom KH0/KC0W                 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: G0HVQ on February 08, 2023, 03:29:29 AM
I'm watching 15m FT8 now - not got a decode yet, but it's hilarious: half the stations are calling on evens and half on odds. Some well-respected callsigns in both groups, so maybe the real one and the pirate are active in different time slots?

Thankfully I got them on 17m CW last night, the propagation peaked nicely to G after our sunset on both 17m and 15m.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 08, 2023, 03:32:09 AM
OK you guys down under.  Is 15m still open there?  He's on 21105 FT8, F/H.
I tuned to the alleged 3Y0J on 21105 kHz and made a few calls as I was copying them. But I just let my transmission time out and turned off my station. I smelled a rat.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 08, 2023, 03:56:30 AM
This was just posted to their FB page by an admin

"3y0j QRV on FT8. 21.105 Fox/Hound"


Gino - KE8KMX
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 08, 2023, 04:16:03 AM
I still don't get why they refuse to operate on 20M.  Just put an alligator clip on the 30M wire vertical.  How hard is that?

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: US5WE on February 08, 2023, 04:16:09 AM
The real one is on 21105 in 2nd period.
114145 -16  0.5  309 ~ JA5BEN 3Y0J RR73           Antarctica
114145 -16  0.5  309 ~ JH1VUO 3Y0J -04            Antarctica
There's also a pirate in first period - be careful.
110430  -3  0.3 1608 ~ CQ 3Y0J IO83              *Antarctica
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 08, 2023, 04:36:30 AM

Same here... I've been trying for 2 hours and no luck, unfortunately. Signals again peaked in 06z hour and then started to fade around 07z. Called it quits at 0730z as his signal was getting too weak to copy.

73
Mason - KM4SII

Yep, about the same time they started fading here as well. Let's hope we keep getting propagation like that! I could hear them well starting a little before 0500z til 0700z or 0730z last night. See you in the pileups, good luck Mason!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 08, 2023, 04:49:08 AM
my friend with a very quiet qth actually recorded my qso  im stunned it was hard work from this end.

https://youtube.com/shorts/an5cL6RmkVg (https://youtube.com/shorts/an5cL6RmkVg)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 08, 2023, 04:51:02 AM
Just worked on 15 ssb.  Seems legit, but WFWL.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4JK on February 08, 2023, 05:00:57 AM
I'm watching 15m FT8 now - not got a decode yet, but it's hilarious: half the stations are calling on evens and half on odds. Some well-respected callsigns in both groups, so maybe the real one and the pirate are active in different time slots?

Thankfully I got them on 17m CW last night, the propagation peaked nicely to G after our sunset on both 17m and 15m.
I only use FT8 on 2m and 440 but last I checked Fox/Hound mode is supposed to lock out the wrong timeslot depending on whether you select "Fox" or "Hound".  So I guess people are using normal mode, or configured for Fox mode.


There's also plenty of stations calling below 1000 hz.

Some Station (a CT1, but it could be a pirate) calling CQ below 1000hz near what seems to be the actual TX frequency. (30khz up from the usual FT8 watering hole)  ::)

There is a 3Y0J printing here but the level is around -14, -12 dB, so it's likely SLIM.

A big chit-show all-round.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 08, 2023, 09:20:29 AM
I'm pretty sure I have a good QSO on 30 CW, but I'll be fidgety till they post the logs.  I'd love to get an insurance QSO on FT8 to pick up a different mode, but the team writes, "if you have Bouvet on CW or SSB please do not work us on FT8. It may be the only chance the little pistols have to get their ATNO."

I guess I'll honor that request, but I have a feeling I'll feel like a chump when the final results are in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctOBMFznkto (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctOBMFznkto)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 08, 2023, 09:21:03 AM
Hearing a lot of stations throughout the U.S. successfully making contact on 18Mhz CW this morning.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on February 08, 2023, 09:33:27 AM
I was finally able to work them on 17M Long Path this morning. The short path propagation was non-existent. But when I pushed the 180 button on my SteppIR, there they were. Then they started to peak up, no QRM on his frequency, and it was done. Solid copy on his end to hear the exchange. Now I can rest a bit easier, and even more so if they can upload the logs :)

John K7KB
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 08, 2023, 09:50:42 AM
That don't look good:

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-08-104801.png)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 08, 2023, 10:10:07 AM
That don't look good:

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-08-104801.png)

NØUN
Not sure it makes much difference going from 29 knots to 34 knots of wind.
Listening on a European SDR indicates they are 59 there on 15M now.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 08, 2023, 10:18:31 AM
That don't look good:

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-08-104801.png)


Not sure it makes much difference going from 29 knots to 34 knots of wind.
Listening on a European SDR indicates they are 59 there on 15M now.

It's the "red" headed their way - expecting 60 kt winds (70 MPH).

But you knew that...

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 08, 2023, 10:24:28 AM
Quote
If you have made a QSO with 3Y0J, and you are sure of it, the team has requested that you NOT TRY TO FILL OTHER BAND/MODE SLOTS. You are taking an ATNO away from someone else.

Yes, I know that you can’t be totally sure until the log upload (probably this weekend, has to be from the boat), but some of you really know, from the exchange, the timing, etc. that you got through. As the Beatles said, “Let it Be.”

The DXpedition is operating in a truly bare-bones backup mode, with no amplifiers, no big antennas, few stations, and no generator or fuel to power any of that even if they did have it.

The team will be lucky to get 20K QSOs instead of the intended 200K, and no one will be going to Bouvet for a long time after. Please DO spot them, help your friends and clubmates to get in the log, etc., but don’t try to fill slots.

In particular, the team has requested that if you have contacted them on CW or SSB, DO NOT CONTACT THEM ON FT8. FT8 operation began today, and may be the only means for more modest stations to get in the log. Give them a chance.

Also please note: 3Y0J may go QRT (or revert to even more limited operation) as a big storm is passing through between now and Thursday. They plan to take some antennas down to prevent damage. The nine on-island team members will remain on the island and hunker down, as it is too difficult and dangerous to go back to the Marama, which has moved even farther from Bouvet in preparation for the storm.

Rich KE1B
West Coast Pilot, 3Y0J
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 08, 2023, 11:05:13 AM


It's the "red" headed their way - expecting 60 kt winds (70 MPH).

But you knew that...

NØUN
We are looking at the same forecast which indicates nothing like that.
Shows max sustained wind at 42k. Not ‘a day at the beach’ but no need to exaggerate. Good signal on 17M now.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI5GUB on February 08, 2023, 12:03:12 PM
Hi I cant believe the Lidfest and abuse that is going on right now on 21.225mhz,its shocking ,3Y0J is strong and workable here in Ireland but the QRM is shocking,where is Ham Radio going
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 08, 2023, 12:23:06 PM
Hi I cant believe the Lidfest and abuse that is going on right now on 21.225mhz,its shocking ,3Y0J is strong and workable here in Ireland but the QRM is shocking,where is Ham Radio going

While I didn't hear 3Y0J on 21.225, I heard one guy on there dropping f-bombs left and right. Stay classy.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 08, 2023, 01:15:24 PM
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:

Interview with 3Y0J Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA.

“Everything is OK in the camp. The guys are good. We have a few antennas up. Running some pileups and preparing for the storm which will arrive in a few hours and last until Thursday. The boat will pull away from the island a bit. The antennas and camp are being secured. The winds are expected to be 60 knots. 9 members will stay in the camp during the storm. They will try to run two bands this evening and tomorrow. They will take down one antenna. They will run 30m and 17m using the Spider Pole on 17 and the aluminum DX Engineering antenna on 30m. 

The operation has proved to be extremely difficult. The most extreme expedition I’ve been to. Setting up the camp has been a lot of work.

We will focus on CW and phone but there will be FT8. We have just discussed this today. We are running low power, only 100w. We have no amplifiers. We have three antennas set up. We are considering setting up 20m as well. So we will have 30, 20, 17, 15.

The beach landings were accomplished by holding onto a line attached to a buoy and floating 15 meters to the beach in our survival suits. This is quite extreme. We float in all the equipment as well. Then carry the equipment 800 feet up to the camp. We have videos of this. We spent a few days to set up the antennas and tent then prepared for the storm that is coming.

Everybody is in good shape. It’s quite hard to stay here. A lot of wind, but today was a quiet, nice, and sunny day . This will change, and there will be a lot of rain. The day we arrived was a lot of wind and rain. Activating Bouvet is not like activating an island in the Caribbean. It is really windy, cold, and exhausting to bring equipment up here. It’s a different DXpedition than we thought we should do. It’s a challenge, but we hope we can stay on the island for some more days.

Regarding dupes, please only call us if you hear us. We have very good receive here on Bouvais Island. We do not have any facility to upload the log on the island. We are saving on fuel and connection for this. When we get back to the vessel, we will likely upload. We don’t know when the first upload will be. Going to Marama is very time consuming project because of the procedure involved.  (Ken describes it.) The first upload may be in the weekend. Again, if you don’t hear us, don’t call us.

Nothing more to report. Hopefully people understand the complexity of this operation. Hopefully we will be able to stay another 7 to 10 days. We are working on plans for how to continue the operation despite the difficult weather conditions here at Bouvet.”

73,

Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 08, 2023, 01:17:54 PM
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:

3Y0J Team Co-Leader Rune LA7THA says,

“Marama has moved back to a position outside of Cap Fie for the incoming storm.

The team is in good spirits despite difficult conditions. They get two warm meals a day plus snacks. They are working very hard.

Today they started operating FT8 on 21.105 F/H.

The team has made about 5,000 QSO’s in less than 48hours of operation.

Weather forecast says there will be high winds in the next 24 hours. We will need to secure the antennas. This may impact operation. The operation will remain on the air as long as possible weather permitting.

Reminder: If you have Bouvet on CW or SSB please do not work us on FT8. It may be the only chance the little pistols have to get their ATNO.”

73,

Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EA0021SWL on February 08, 2023, 01:38:51 PM
[FEBRUARY 8 @ 2000Z]
INFO BELOW BY WEST COAST PILOT STATION, RICH KE1B

If you have made a QSO with 3Y0J, and you are sure of it, the team has requested that you NOT TRY TO FILL OTHER BAND/MODE SLOTS. You are taking an ATNO away from someone else.

Yes, I know that you can’t be totally sure until the log upload (probably this weekend, has to be from the boat), but some of you really know, from the exchange, the timing, etc. that you got through. As the Beatles said, “Let it Be.”

The DXpedition is operating in a truly bare-bones backup mode, with no amplifiers, no big antennas, few stations, and no generator or fuel to power any of that even if they did have it.

The team will be lucky to get 20K QSOs instead of the intended 200K, and no one will be going to Bouvet for a long time after. Please DO spot them, help your friends and clubmates to get in the log, etc., but don’t try to fill slots.

In particular, the team has requested that if you have contacted them on CW or SSB, DO NOT CONTACT THEM ON FT8. FT8 operation began today, and may be the only means for more modest stations to get in the log. Give them a chance.

Also please note: 3Y0J may go QRT (or revert to even more limited operation) as a big storm is passing through between now and Thursday. They plan to take some antennas down to prevent damage. The nine on-island team members will remain on the island and hunker down, as it is too difficult and dangerous to go back to the Marama, which has moved even farther from Bouvet in preparation for the storm.

https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-island/ (https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-island/)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 08, 2023, 01:51:39 PM
[FEBRUARY 8 @ 2000Z]
INFO BELOW BY WEST COAST PILOT STATION, RICH KE1B

If you have made a QSO with 3Y0J, and you are sure of it, the team has requested that you NOT TRY TO FILL OTHER BAND/MODE SLOTS. You are taking an ATNO away from someone else.

Yes, I know that you can’t be totally sure until the log upload (probably this weekend, has to be from the boat), but some of you really know, from the exchange, the timing, etc. that you got through. As the Beatles said, “Let it Be.”

The DXpedition is operating in a truly bare-bones backup mode, with no amplifiers, no big antennas, few stations, and no generator or fuel to power any of that even if they did have it.

The team will be lucky to get 20K QSOs instead of the intended 200K, and no one will be going to Bouvet for a long time after. Please DO spot them, help your friends and clubmates to get in the log, etc., but don’t try to fill slots.

In particular, the team has requested that if you have contacted them on CW or SSB, DO NOT CONTACT THEM ON FT8. FT8 operation began today, and may be the only means for more modest stations to get in the log. Give them a chance.

Also please note: 3Y0J may go QRT (or revert to even more limited operation) as a big storm is passing through between now and Thursday. They plan to take some antennas down to prevent damage. The nine on-island team members will remain on the island and hunker down, as it is too difficult and dangerous to go back to the Marama, which has moved even farther from Bouvet in preparation for the storm.

https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-island/ (https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-island/)

I can't see too many folks following any of those requests. A lot of greedy people out there... plus many don't read / ignore any updates or bulletins. Well, hopefully some people will listen.. I fall in the modest station category  ::)

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 08, 2023, 02:04:31 PM
They only way anyone might listen to those requests is when the post the log, With all the QRM it's very hard to be sure that you made it,

And at the very least they should allow everyone to work the 3 different modes,

Can the not send data over those fancy Icom sat phones ??
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 08, 2023, 02:08:18 PM

I can't see too many folks following any of those requests. A lot of greedy people out there... plus many don't read / ignore any updates or bulletins. Well, hopefully some people will listen.. I fall in the modest station category  ::)

I suspect that in absence of a log - many who have had solid QSO's will suddenly doubt themselves - lots of QRM you know - they will need that "insurance" QSO just to be sure.

When (if?) ClubLog stats are available the DX pigs won't be able to hide.

Maybe we should create a special award for them? The DX Piggy...


Randy / WB9LUR


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1CX on February 08, 2023, 02:49:12 PM
Congrats KB2FCV I heard that lol
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 08, 2023, 02:52:00 PM
I suspect that in absence of a log - many who have had solid QSO's will suddenly doubt themselves - lots of QRM you know - they will need that "insurance" QSO just to be sure.

When (if?) ClubLog stats are available the DX pigs won't be able to hide.

Maybe we should create a special award for them? The DX Piggy...


Randy / WB9LUR

Yep the perfect storm
A very weak signal
DQRM everywhere
No logs for confirmation.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 08, 2023, 02:56:44 PM
Congrats KB2FCV I heard that lol

Thanks!! Yeah I heard him send my call twice.. once the DQRM'ers and cops stopped for a moment. Solid QSO and best sigs I've heard so far for this time of day! I imagine tonight he'll be loud - but I can actually get some sleep tonight.

Well, tossing up a quick 30m delta loop paid off (I normally use a doublet which is OK on 30). I could definitely receive him better.. so.. yeah. You do what you gotta do to work the DX.

#320 in the log!! Now just to await the log update.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 08, 2023, 03:05:07 PM
Got 'em on 10.115 up 5.1.  Significantly better signal than last couple of nights.  Loud enough to be able to be heard mostly even with the DQRM.  Inv vee at 50 ft looking out over the hillside in that direction.

Only leaves ZS8 and P5 on CW for me and P5 Mixed. 

Sure hope that log is updated before they leave...just in case....

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 08, 2023, 03:05:15 PM
FCV, I heard your QSO too! And I got ‘em a couple of minutes later for  #330 on CW.

Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 08, 2023, 03:10:29 PM
I am certainly going to honor their request to not make another QSO. I will wait till log update and if my contact is good I am done.  I would think every considerate DXer would do the same; let’s give everyone a chance.

Unless they are begging (like Peter I), but I doubt that will happen.

Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 08, 2023, 03:50:05 PM
I believe the most recent request was that if a Q has been made on CW or SSB to not contact them on FT8.  I plan to go for an SSB Q even though I have, hopefully, a CW Q.  Don't do FT8 so no biggie on that.

Not chasing bands, but obviously, a 30M SSB Q is not possible. 

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 08, 2023, 03:53:27 PM
I know why they said what they did, but too many just aren't going to do it.

The DQRM was incredible, congrats not only if you got a QSO, but got one that wasn't a partial clobber, especially at the end, you've done exceptionally well.

Before we accuse people of being pigs, remember that this will be the last one for maybe 20 years and insurance is definitely a reasonable consideration for many, many QSOs that are in the log, but nobody off the island knows it.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 08, 2023, 04:03:35 PM
FCV, I heard your QSO too! And I got ‘em a couple of minutes later for  #330 on CW.

Paul

Congrats!!!

Yep, I'm gonna abide by their request to refrain from making further contacts to allow others to work them.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 08, 2023, 04:27:40 PM
I give the ops there a lot of credit; once they catch a call sign they repeat it over and over till the QSO is confirmed. Sometimes 3 or 4 times. They must know how much DQRM we have; I have someone sounds “local” tuning up endlessly for the past 3 nights.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 08, 2023, 04:39:15 PM
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?

Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?

Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 08, 2023, 04:58:27 PM
It wasn't that long ago...

https://cq.sk/en/3y0j-why-did-he-drop-out-of-the-ra9usu-team/
 (https://cq.sk/en/3y0j-why-did-he-drop-out-of-the-ra9usu-team/)
Pesky contracts...

There's obviously a bunch of frustrated folks that don't want to see them succeed, at any level.  What a shame.

That these guys even made it to Bouvet, let alone operational is a great win me thinks.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4OGW on February 08, 2023, 05:16:11 PM
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?

Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?

Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?

NØUN

On the website if you look at the "System Diagrams" they posted, there is one Honda Eu20i listed, for "Tools, battery chargers, and additional electrical equipment". It is not clear if they have a second one as a backup.

Tor N4OGW
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 08, 2023, 05:17:09 PM
I find it interesting that I have not heard them on 30 m at all. I have a 3 el yagi and Beverage receive antennas. My guess is that my path has too much absorption on the lower bands as it scrapes the southern auroral oval. That would suggest that 40 m, let alone 80 or 160 m if they got going on those bands would not be possible. There has been quite a bit of activity from the sun the past few days including a coronal hole high speed stream and a number of M-class flares.
I'm happy to have 15 and 17 m CW QSO, and even happier to not have to bother with the 15 m FT8 show last night! An SSB QSO would be nice, but a Data QSO will only get my attraction if they go begging.
It looks like the sun is going to get quite active over the next few weeks, so hopefully that will liven things up a bit with propagation and give those folks still wanting a QSO.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 08, 2023, 05:24:40 PM
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?

Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?

Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?

NØUN

On the website if you look at the "System Diagrams" they posted, there is one Honda Eu20i listed, for "Tools, battery chargers, and additional electrical equipment". It is not clear if they have a second one as a backup.

Tor N4OGW

Looking into getting one for around the house.  I have a 12kW portable (on wheels) for power outages out here in the country, but I may get one of these (or similar) for quick, easy power.

Thanks!

NØUN

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 08, 2023, 05:31:37 PM
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?
Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?
On the website if you look at the "System Diagrams" they posted, there is one Honda Eu20i listed, for "Tools, battery chargers, and additional electrical equipment". It is not clear if they have a second one as a backup.
Looking into getting one for around the house.  I have a 12kW portable (on wheels) for power outages out here in the country, but I may get one of these (or similar) for quick, easy power.
I've got a 6500W Honda inverter here that I use for Field Day when I do a 1E from home, but I'm also looking for a 2kW inverter that I can throw in the Jeep and go play radio on a mountaintop with at the end of June instead.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 08, 2023, 05:38:26 PM
Looks like running out of gas for that little generator may be the thing that puts a fork in this operation.  Everything else appears to be on diesel. 

That may be why Ken said "hopefully 7 - 10 more days".  Thats shorter than the plan.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 08, 2023, 05:41:13 PM
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?
Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?
On the website if you look at the "System Diagrams" they posted, there is one Honda Eu20i listed, for "Tools, battery chargers, and additional electrical equipment". It is not clear if they have a second one as a backup.
Looking into getting one for around the house.  I have a 12kW portable (on wheels) for power outages out here in the country, but I may get one of these (or similar) for quick, easy power.
I've got a 6500W Honda inverter here that I use for Field Day when I do a 1E from home, but I'm also looking for a 2kW inverter that I can throw in the Jeep and go play radio on a mountaintop with at the end of June instead.

I like your mention to our mutual friend about how to stop the DQRM.  I agreed 100% - I for one would LOVE to see it.  It was used years ago, and things got twisted around to make it look like the DX Station was the bad guy, but it would really work for this DXP me thinks.  Got to think out of the box, love it!

N0UN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 08, 2023, 05:43:30 PM
I give the ops there a lot of credit; once they catch a call sign they repeat it over and over till the QSO is confirmed. Sometimes 3 or 4 times. They must know how much DQRM we have; I have someone sounds “local” tuning up endlessly for the past 3 nights.

Pretty sure that is what happened to me. I sent my call a few times after his TU. Had DQRM'ers & Cops for a short time - as soon as they both stopped I heard my call sent twice, clear as day, correct. Sent my 599 TU and was on my way. I heard them do the same with others as well. They want to make sure everyone gets their chance to get the ATNO.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 08, 2023, 05:46:51 PM
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?

Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?

Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?

NØUN

On the website if you look at the "System Diagrams" they posted, there is one Honda Eu20i listed, for "Tools, battery chargers, and additional electrical equipment". It is not clear if they have a second one as a backup.

Tor N4OGW

Looking into getting one for around the house.  I have a 12kW portable (on wheels) for power outages out here in the country, but I may get one of these (or similar) for quick, easy power.

Thanks!

NØUN

The EU20i is basically the EU2000i (or now the EU2200i) here. 2KW generator. Great little generator that is quiet, light (46lbs - I don't know why I remember that), sips gas (on econo mode it will go a good 10 hours on 1 gallon of gas). Since they are an inverter generator they are kind on electronics. It's what I use for power outages here (and sees use for field day). It's enough to run my sump pump, furnace in the winter, the fridge and a couple of lights... oh and my internet hardware. Good little generators. The fuel efficiency became important quick after some of the hurricanes hit here. The big generators will go through 5 gallons of gas in 8 hours of continuous running. The little hondas with 5 gallons you can go 40-50 hours. Since there were fuel supply problems to the gas stations there were lines 3 blocks long of people filling up their gas containers for generators - and their complaint was they had to come back at least twice a day
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 08, 2023, 05:48:40 PM
Those little Honda inverter generators are good gear. The inverter generators are small, light and powerful.
Just be careful when choosing a genset for use with radio operations. Be sure to check for RFI.
For our home power backup, I bought a plain alternator genset, to avoid the possibility of RFI.
Is there any chance they may get more gear onshore at Bouvet?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4OGW on February 08, 2023, 05:52:58 PM
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?

Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?

Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?

NØUN

On the website if you look at the "System Diagrams" they posted, there is one Honda Eu20i listed, for "Tools, battery chargers, and additional electrical equipment". It is not clear if they have a second one as a backup.

Tor N4OGW

Looking into getting one for around the house.  I have a 12kW portable (on wheels) for power outages out here in the country, but I may get one of these (or similar) for quick, easy power.

Thanks!

NØUN

The EU20i is basically the EU2000i (or now the EU2200i) here. 2KW generator. Great little generator that is quiet, light (46lbs - I don't know why I remember that), sips gas (on econo mode it will go a good 10 hours on 1 gallon of gas). Since they are an inverter generator they are kind on electronics. It's what I use for power outages here (and sees use for field day). It's enough to run my sump pump, furnace in the winter, the fridge and a couple of lights... oh and my internet hardware. Good little generators.

I have one too- nice generator. You can also get a conversion kit to run them on propane.

Tor N4OGW
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WD9Q on February 08, 2023, 06:00:38 PM
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?

Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?

Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?

NØUN

One of the diagrams on their website shows as a Honda EU20i 2KW generator.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0AP on February 08, 2023, 06:01:01 PM
Does anybody remember seeing (or hearing of) which portable Honda generator they're using?

Since Honda only make gasoline portables, I wonder if they're powering camp, cooking, lights, radios, etc. on just one portable?

Anybody know, or seen pictures of it?

NØUN

I was wondering the same thing...
During our IOTA trips in the Golf activating multiple islands off of LA/MS/TX coast, AB5EB, AD5A, XE2K and I (K0AP), we used HONDA1000 and HONDA2000 generators which worked flawlessly. We easily ran one radio from the 1000... plus few other things hooked up to it.
The 2000 was capable of a lot more. We used KPA500 amplifier with these generators. Very reliable, zero issues. Also, not too heavy to carry and move around.

No info on 3Y0J's site about the generators make/model they are using, or maybe I missed it.

73 Dragan K0AP
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 08, 2023, 06:36:05 PM
N4OGW found it - a little over halfway down:

https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan (https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan)

I cannot imagine what they are feeling right now, after all they've been through.

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-08-190805.png)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 08, 2023, 06:52:35 PM
N4OGW found it - a little over halfway down:

https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan (https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan)

I cannot imagine what they are feeling right now, after all they've been through.

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-08-190805.png)

NØUN

That sounds like one heck of a storm headed their way in the next day or so. I couldn't imagine just being in a tent out there with those winds on top of those rocks. Hope they stay safe out there!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 08, 2023, 06:54:37 PM
Update - Video Interview:

https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/534037238555991/ (https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/534037238555991/)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 08, 2023, 06:56:59 PM
I like your mention to our mutual friend about how to stop the DQRM.  I agreed 100% - I for one would LOVE to see it.  It was used years ago, and things got twisted around to make it look like the DX Station was the bad guy, but it would really work for this DXP me thinks.  Got to think out of the box, love it!
A real HR#1 old-timer in my club who I respect tremendously suggested it to me on the phone last night; he remembered when the originator of the practice did it in the old days (plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, and all that). I think if the practice is announced and made crystal clear via PR channels then the criticism would be mitigated somewhat, and only used when needed, of course.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 08, 2023, 07:03:20 PM
During our IOTA trips in the Golf activating multiple islands off of LA/MS/TX coast, AB5EB, AD5A, XE2K and I (K0AP), we used HONDA1000 and HONDA2000 generators which worked flawlessly. We easily ran one radio from the 1000... plus few other things hooked up to it.
The 2000 was capable of a lot more. We used KPA500 amplifier with these generators. Very reliable, zero issues. Also, not too heavy to carry and move around.
If I can get a few interested folks I want to do a nice overlanding Field Day in Virginia using one of those and my K3s—CW only, of course! I tried to organize it last year but no takers. A nice 3-day combination of off-road driving, mountain-top camping, a serious 1E or 2E field day entry, and overland travel in the George Washington National Forest. Not quite the same as running global pileups from the #2 most-wanted DXCC entity, but still a fun operation (I hope).
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 08, 2023, 07:05:57 PM
Update - Video Interview:

https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/534037238555991/ (https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/534037238555991/)

 If I'm ever in the market for a satellite phone The LAST model I will consider is this Icom.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0UA on February 08, 2023, 07:34:20 PM
Update - Video Interview:

https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/534037238555991/ (https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/534037238555991/)

 If I'm ever in the market for a satellite phone The LAST model I will consider is this Icom.
\

Roger that. That unit sucked.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 08, 2023, 07:55:21 PM
N4OGW found it - a little over halfway down:

https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan (https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan)


(https://i.postimg.cc/FKnjVygW/generators2.jpg)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0AP on February 08, 2023, 08:05:17 PM
N4OGW found it - a little over halfway down:

https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan (https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan)


(https://i.postimg.cc/FKnjVygW/generators2.jpg)

Oh my, Hyundai DHY6000LEK weights 114 Kg (250 Lbs). That is one heavy beast to carry around.

73 Dragan K0AP
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 08, 2023, 08:12:41 PM
I like your mention to our mutual friend about how to stop the DQRM.  I agreed 100% - I for one would LOVE to see it.  It was used years ago, and things got twisted around to make it look like the DX Station was the bad guy, but it would really work for this DXP me thinks.  Got to think out of the box, love it!
A real HR#1 old-timer in my club who I respect tremendously suggested it to me on the phone last night; he remembered when the originator of the practice did it in the old days (plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose, and all that). I think if the practice is announced and made crystal clear via PR channels then the criticism would be mitigated somewhat, and only used when needed, of course.

"What goes around...", lol.

I offered to sponsor the file upload while on the island if they have a data plan and capability with those Icom PTT Sat Phones.  That may take care of some of the problem.  They may not have either - the plan or capability.  The suggestion from your friend (with the great memory) would take care of the rest of the problem.  We will soon see if any of it is possible.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 08, 2023, 08:32:24 PM
Hope the guys are safe. The tents were rated at 89.5mph (40m/s) before the reinforcing:
"We have selected the Norwegian brand Arctic Lavvo who will supply us with their Venor Gamme tent. Arctic Lavvo will deliver custom made tents to the project that includes three tents for radio operation and sleeping. The manufacturer having its factory at latitude 70N is taking the extra step to ensure their high-quality products will sustain the Bouvet climate. The tent having been tested at JW Svalbard in extreme conditions up to 40 m/s will be improved further by adding extra guying levels and by strengthening the aluminium frame."
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 08, 2023, 08:47:34 PM
Anybody on the east coast seeing them print on 30m FT8? I see a crapload of callers, on BOTH slots (because of course), but not a single print. I was hearing them on 30 CW since the beginning but not a whisper on FT8, and nothing even on the bandscope below 500 Hz, which is where I assume they'd be transmitting if they're using F/H.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 08, 2023, 08:49:36 PM
Anybody on the east coast seeing them print on 30m FT8? I see a crapload of callers, on BOTH slots (because of course), but not a single print. I was hearing them on 30 CW since the beginning but not a whisper on FT8, and nothing even on the bandscope below 500 Hz, which is where I assume they'd be transmitting if they're using F/H, which they said they would.
No copy here. I'm thinking it is most likely a pirate. I have seen a few NA/SA stations sending R-xx reports, but most of the reports were pretty weak.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 08, 2023, 08:53:58 PM
Anybody on the east coast seeing them print on 30m FT8? I see a crapload of callers, on BOTH slots (because of course), but not a single print. I was hearing them on 30 CW since the beginning but not a whisper on FT8, and nothing even on the bandscope below 500 Hz, which is where I assume they'd be transmitting if they're using F/H, which they said they would.
No copy here. I'm thinking it is most likely a pirate. I have seen a few NA/SA stations sending R-xx reports, but most of the reports were pretty weak.
Yeah, I'm seeing reports and the occasional 73 being given too. All I can think is that if it's legit, the transmit power from each of the streams must be so weak there's just not enough signal overall to make it all the way up to Zone 5. As I'm writing this it's pretty close to dawn on Bouvet, so any greyline enhancement should be peaking right about now.


EDITED TO ADD: Just saw him now (0500z), only one stream audible here, -18 and working Europe. Two transmissions copied so far. An A-index of 18 isn't helping.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 08, 2023, 09:29:27 PM
Looks like the op is not sending 73 messages, but a report was received from both his operating slots.
For as much as I love working guys on CW, I really really wanted them on any digital mode. This puts me two back from digital Honor Roll now. HappyDance™ Time!

(https://i.postimg.cc/282XmnjT/Bouvet.jpg)

Naturally there were some real RocketSurgeons™ transmitting on the same AF and time slot 3Y0J...Because OF COURSE THERE WOULD BE. There should be a popup box that says "You must be ->THIS<- smart to operate FT8.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 08, 2023, 09:42:30 PM
I'm monitoring 10144 kHz now. Apparently the *real 3Y0J* is transmitting in the Even slot. The *fake 3Y0J* is transmitting in the Odd slot. I see about as many callers in both slots. Of course, I am only copying the *fake 3Y0J*. Quite strong too, so it cannot be the real one. There should be NO propagation to 3Y0J here for at least another hour or two, via Long Path, and even that is really stretching it.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 08, 2023, 09:46:56 PM
Looks like the op is not sending 73 messages.
I just saw "3Y0J" send a RR73. However, I doubt it is actually them given that they stressed that they would be using F/H only. WFWL of course!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 08, 2023, 09:48:14 PM
I suspect you're correct and just realized it when I looked at the image. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 08, 2023, 09:49:08 PM
Looks like the op is not sending 73 messages, but a report was received from both his operating slots.
For as much as I love working guys on CW, I really really wanted them on any digital mode. This puts me two back from digital Honor Roll now. HappyDance™ Time!

(https://i.postimg.cc/282XmnjT/Bouvet.jpg)

Naturally there were some real RocketSurgeons™ transmitting on the same AF and time slot 3Y0J...Because OF COURSE THERE WOULD BE. There should be a popup box that says "You must be ->THIS<- smart to operate FT8.

Dumb question. I'm not an FT8 user, obviously, am just curious - when the 3Y0J call sign is highlighted (in your image - had to enlarge it) it often is followed by a -10 or some other number - is this some sort of signal strength indicator?

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 08, 2023, 10:04:13 PM
Dumb question. I'm not an FT8 user, obviously, am just curious - when the 3Y0J call sign is highlighted (in your image - had to enlarge it) it often is followed by a -10 or some other number - is this some sort of signal strength indicator?
Not a dumb question at all, and you're quite correct. In normal FT8 both stations send reports where the caller typically sends AA1AAA  XX9XXX -09, and the DX would reply XX9XXX  AA1AAA R-10, meaning "roger, you're -10dB to me." Both stations would then exchange 73 messages. In this case, I believe the station signing as 3Y0J is not using F&H, but rather two stream MSHV.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 08, 2023, 10:17:27 PM
Dumb question. I'm not an FT8 user, obviously, am just curious - when the 3Y0J call sign is highlighted (in your image - had to enlarge it) it often is followed by a -10 or some other number - is this some sort of signal strength indicator?
Not a dumb question at all, and you're quite correct. In normal FT8 both stations send reports where the caller typically sends AA1AAA  XX9XXX -09, and the DX would reply XX9XXX  AA1AAA R-10, meaning "roger, you're -10dB to me." Both stations would then exchange 73 messages. In this case, I believe the station signing as 3Y0J is not using F&H, but rather two stream MSHV.

Ok, so I downloaded the FT8 software and plugged audio into my sound card - not gonna set up for transmit - just want to "spy" on what's going on since there's no CW to chase tonight.

Seeing a bunch of stations calling, every now and then someone sends something about "even only" (TX sequence?) and when I first started spying I saw a few of these :

K7JFD RR73; JA0UUA <3Y0J> -10

Have not seen one in a while though...

Randy / WB9LUR


Edit/Update : at 06:26 saw another one - JH1NYM RR73; N6SJ <3Y0J> -20


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 08, 2023, 10:32:26 PM
Seeing a bunch of stations calling, every now and then someone sends something about "even only" (TX sequence?) and when I first started spying I saw a few of these :
K7JFD RR73; JA0UUA <3Y0J> -10

Here's the thing. During the planning stages and on their Website they said they would be using what is known as Fox and Hound mode (F/H). In real F/H mode several things happen. The DX station will transmit 2, 3, or 4 streams (i.e. call 2,3, or 4 stations). They will always call on even times (:00 and :30 second intervals on the synchronized clock). Always. That's coded into the WSJT-X software.

On the "hound" side (i.e. us, The Deserving—and not-so-Deserving), we are locked into transmitting on odds (:15 and :45 seconds).

In addition to that, the DX will transmit below 1000 Hz, typically below 500 or so. Callers using the F/H setting will only be able to select a transmit frequency above 1000 to call the DX. Nobody blindly calling the DX should ever be below 1000 Hz in F/H. Once the Fox selects a caller (with a message like W2IRT  3Y0J  R-10) my reply would be 3Y0J  W2IRT RR73, and would be sent somewhere between their TX audio frequency and 1000 Hz. They would typically send a 73 message and that would be that.

What I got was just a report, no 73, and sent in the "ODD" slot by the operator signing as 3Y0J. That is most definitely not F/H mode, unless the specs for F/H have changed in the last few months, and I'm not aware of that happening.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 08, 2023, 10:47:39 PM
Seeing a bunch of stations calling, every now and then someone sends something about "even only" (TX sequence?) and when I first started spying I saw a few of these :
K7JFD RR73; JA0UUA <3Y0J> -10

What I got was just a report, no 73, and sent in the "ODD" slot by the operator signing as 3Y0J. That is most definitely not F/H mode, unless the specs for F/H have changed in the last few months, and I'm not aware of that happening.

So you have pirates on FT8 as well - oldest sins in the newest ways.

Gonna call it a night and check for CW later this morning. Glad they are active in some mode tonight - much better than radio silence.

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 08, 2023, 11:15:51 PM
So you have pirates on FT8 as well - oldest sins in the newest ways.

Yep. But like everything else it's WFWL. I'm in the "WL" phase right now. Doubtful-but-hopeful, and waiting for the log upload with bated breath.

But while pirates and SLIMs will always exist, at least the DQRM problem is, I won't say eliminated, but far, far less of an issue than on conventional "human" modes. That's a Big Deal in marginal situations like this where getting stations in the log is a lot more difficult than normal.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 08, 2023, 11:24:12 PM
Well, maybe that was the real 3Y0J on FT8, just using MSHV for some reason. They sent "QSY CW" and then immediately showed up on 10115 sounding exactly like they have the past few nights. And just as expected, they are starting to fade out now at 0720z.

I tried working them on both FT8 and CW, but still no joy. Been putting in as much BIC time as I can between school work. It's been nothing but studying and 3Y0J the past few days  ;D
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 08, 2023, 11:35:45 PM
Well, maybe that was the real 3Y0J on FT8, just using MSHV for some reason. They sent "QSY CW" and then immediately showed up on 10115 sounding exactly like they have the past few nights. And just as expected, they are starting to fade out now at 0720z.

I tried working them on both FT8 and CW, but still no joy. Been putting in as much BIC time as I can between school work. It's been nothing but studying and 3Y0J the past few days  ;D


THAT RIGHT THERE is the mark of a real DXer, and what makes someone part of The Deserving in my book. Dedication but balance with life/work/family. You'll make it, I have no doubt. If this was the Real McCoy then I'll be overjoyed with this counter on digital, for #329 in that mode; two more to go to digital HR if it's legit. If it was a pirate then fingers crossed that I'll work the real guys before the big switch gets pulled for the last time. Let's be grateful for what we can work, because, who knows, the next time Bouvet gets activated you might be as old as I am now!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 09, 2023, 02:05:13 AM
I wonder how soon they will run out of gas for the Honda EU20i?    Since this was brought to run power tools and not radios I am guessing a single 5 gallon can.   You don't want to carry much gas if any at all on a boat for saftey reasons.     This genset will use about a gallon a day.  They prob only have five days worth of gas, 10 if they brought 2 5 gallon cans but I would be surpised if they brought that much.   5 would have been way more than they need to power tools to build camp.


Gino

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 09, 2023, 03:33:29 AM
Wouldn't the Zodiacs run on Gas  ::) (Petrol) as well

There was pictures of them filling lots of Kerosene on VP8(F) wonder what they will do with all of it if they don't manage to get a proper Generator on land,

Also I wonder why the zodiacs can not make it the last 150m to shore, what would stop them,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB

I wonder how soon they will run out of gas for the Honda EU20i?    Since this was brought to run power tools and not radios I am guessing a single 5 gallon can.   You don't want to carry much gas if any at all on a boat for saftey reasons.     This genset will use about a gallon a day.  They prob only have five days worth of gas, 10 if they brought 2 5 gallon cans but I would be surpised if they brought that much.   5 would have been way more than they need to power tools to build camp.


Gino
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 09, 2023, 03:42:50 AM
Also I wonder why the zodiacs can not make it the last 150m to shore, what would stop them,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB

The last 15m to shore.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 09, 2023, 03:43:03 AM
I believe that the small remaining Zodiac was never intended to do the "heavy lifting" on landings so its the backup.  Its also way more vulnerable to being flipped or swamped with any big waves and while you might flip the Zodiac back you could then have flooded engine problem. 

So I think the 150m (500ft) is so the Sailboat can get to it as the back up if that's how the team needs to get off - no Zodiacs at all.  Any closer and the waves could be breaking or the Zodiac could hit something and then its a crisis.

Certainly the Zodiac could get safely to maybe 100 or 200 ft and do the same thing but its the back up they are concerned about.  Thats my observation from the sidelines.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 09, 2023, 03:47:24 AM
Reported that they only have 4 days worth of food on the island.  They should have an opportunity to resupply this weekend.  Or they could decide to get off while the getting is good.  This thing could be all over on Sunday.  Or they may stay into next week since one report said up to 10 days which would point to Feb 15/16.

No mention of gas running out.  Maybe because of the Zodiacs they have enough.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 09, 2023, 03:59:51 AM
I know English is not your first language but please stop disagreeing with me,

Look at this video and around the 6 minute mark Ken clearly states 150m they have to float from,

https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/1318706922246702/

Have you nothing better to do than try to start an argument here ??

Also I wonder why the zodiacs can not make it the last 150m to shore, what would stop them,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB

The last 15m to shore.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 09, 2023, 04:11:06 AM
I know English is not your first language but please stop disagreeing with me,

Look at this video and around the 6 minute mark Ken clearly states 150m they have to float from,

https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/1318706922246702/

Have you nothing better to do than try to start an argument here ??

Also I wonder why the zodiacs can not make it the last 150m to shore, what would stop them,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB

The last 15m to shore.

No I have nothing better to do while I wait for 3Y0J to produce a somewhat stronger and more consistent signal.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 09, 2023, 04:14:30 AM
I know English is not your first language but please stop disagreeing with me,

Look at this video and around the 6 minute mark Ken clearly states 150m they have to float from,

https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/1318706922246702/

Have you nothing better to do than try to start an argument here ??

Also I wonder why the zodiacs can not make it the last 150m to shore, what would stop them,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB

The last 15m to shore.

The distance issue was clarified with the last sat transmission video.   It was stated the distance that they have to swim/float gear is 500 feet.
I am sure the reason is rocks.  It appears they damaged one of the zodiacs trying to get closer. I am sure they don't want a repeat of that.

Gino

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 09, 2023, 04:17:05 AM
I think you may be waiting OM, doesn't look like they will adding any more equipment, Evening time seems the best chance, they peaked here after 18z on 17&15m maybe try after 17z for you as you are a bit east of UK and EI

GL
Trevor
EI2GLB

 
I know English is not your first language but please stop disagreeing with me,

Look at this video and around the 6 minute mark Ken clearly states 150m they have to float from,

https://www.facebook.com/548960533/videos/1318706922246702/

Have you nothing better to do than try to start an argument here ??

Also I wonder why the zodiacs can not make it the last 150m to shore, what would stop them,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB

The last 15m to shore.

No I have nothing better to do while I wait for 3Y0J to produce a somewhat stronger and more consistent signal.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 09, 2023, 04:30:40 AM
I think the only chance for "improvement" would be that they get on 10M or 20M as well.  Why that seems impossible with 9 guys on an island with 7 of them looking for something to do most of the time is mind blowing quite frankly. 

On one hand they are doing herculean work getting on the island at all given the unfortunate chain of events.  On the other, it seems like they are standing around for days with their hands in the pockets and no one has a balun, 18 ft of wire, and a little bit of 1/8 inch twine.

I just don't get it.  Especially as the overnight goes down to one radio.  One radio. with 9 guys on the island?  WTF

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0UA on February 09, 2023, 04:47:55 AM
I think the only chance for "improvement" would be that they get on 10M or 20M as well.  Why that seems impossible with 9 guys on an island with 7 of them looking for something to do most of the time is mind blowing quite frankly. 

On one hand they are doing herculean work getting on the island at all given the unfortunate chain of events.  On the other, it seems like they are standing around for days with their hands in the pockets and no one has a balun, 18 ft of wire, and a little bit of 1/8 inch twine.

I just don't get it.  Especially as the overnight goes down to one radio.  One radio. with 9 guys on the island?  WTF

Ed  N1UR

You ask a LOT of good questions.  But I don't have ANY good answers. :)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 09, 2023, 05:48:03 AM
Am I reading the chatter on here right? Is anyone expressing their intentions to call 3Y0J again after already working them? And just for the mode? It's already been pointed out several times that they are asking not to call them again if you're sure you have a QSO. Well, of course we can never be absolutely sure without any log uploads, and someone who doesn't have Bouvet on a previous DXpedition may want an insurance contact. Doing it is one thing, but why get on this forum and talk about your intentions to call again, especially if you already have Bouvet confirmed? The final upload will be telling.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6AB on February 09, 2023, 06:12:35 AM
Am I reading the chatter on here right? Is anyone expressing their intentions to call 3Y0J again after already working them? And just for the mode? It's already been pointed out several times that they are asking not to call them again if you're sure you have a QSO. Well, of course we can never be absolutely sure without any log uploads, and someone who doesn't have Bouvet on a previous DXpedition may want an insurance contact. Doing it is one thing, but why get on this forum and talk about your intentions to call again, especially if you already have Bouvet confirmed? The final upload will be telling.

If I should have worked them on MSHV or in the wrong period, I definitely would try another qso.
Firstly, I would answer the MSHV or "wrong period call" if  there was a chance it's the genuine 3y0j station ( signal strength, time of day, band, direction) just to be sure.
Then I would try to work them in correct F/H mode afterwards.

If I should have worked them in correct F/H mode first time, then I definitely would NOT attempt another try.

If the genuine 3y0j  operates MSHV or transmits in the wrong period, that's stupid of them as it is not agreed on and you create nothing but chaos.
However, chances are high you made a qso with a pirate.




Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0AP on February 09, 2023, 06:13:30 AM
Well, maybe that was the real 3Y0J on FT8, just using MSHV for some reason. They sent "QSY CW" and then immediately showed up on 10115 sounding exactly like they have the past few nights. And just as expected, they are starting to fade out now at 0720z.

I tried working them on both FT8 and CW, but still no joy. Been putting in as much BIC time as I can between school work. It's been nothing but studying and 3Y0J the past few days  ;D

I admire your passion for this hobby... you remind me of myself when I started HAMing back in the late 80's. HAM radio needs more young blood like you. Keep it up.

73 Dragan K0AP
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 09, 2023, 06:21:37 AM
Am I reading the chatter on here right? Is anyone expressing their intentions to call 3Y0J again after already working them? And just for the mode? It's already been pointed out several times that they are asking not to call them again if you're sure you have a QSO.

I WAS THINKING OF POSTING THE EXACT SAME QUESTION!

And I think almost all of us KNOW if we made the good contact or not. I can count on one hand the number of band/contacts I have "made" with a DXpedition  and found one of the contacts was NIL. And many times I write in my notes "he called me K3HTX and I tried to correct them before QRM".

Boo DX pigs. >:(

Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 09, 2023, 06:46:53 AM
Depends on how you define ATNO

For this one I personally think that 3 x QSO's is acceptable

1 x CW 1 x SSB and 1 x Digi As it is a ATNO on each of those modes,

Some people think ATNO means 1 QSO and some people think the a bandmode slot is a ATNO and they will chase each slot like a new one,

Either way listening to the pile up's almost no one is listening and it is a feeding frenzy so WFWL as they say,

With the absence of a log they will never be able to control dupes and insurance QSO's 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1VT on February 09, 2023, 06:55:17 AM
Facebook posting.  Steve NA2J wrote this on behalf of 3Y0J 2 days ago.
"If you already have Bouvet in your log please standby and let those operators who need Bouvet for an ATNO work us."

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 06:56:41 AM
I dunno, but I'm having a difficult time with the concept of:

"We're spending a king's ransom to go to a really inaccessible place to set up a radio station on the wrong side of a mountain for a large part of the world to operate essentially QRP into makeshift antennas, so even if you can hear us please don't call

C'mon.  I supported this DXpedition financially solely for a new mode and some band fills.  I think EU is having a field day with this one and the path to JA is pretty good too.  It looks like I'm in little danger of ever hearing them from here on 15 or 17m due to their lousy siting.  If I (somehow) get a 10 minute opening opening on 17m, I'm supposed to feel bad about calling?  Only if you subscribe to the erroneous theory that for every QSO they make it denies someone else, somewhere, of a QSO.  I think that's bull.  Do you suppose it just might mean that, instead of denying someone a QSO, it's just another QSO for the expedition's totals?

OK, don't call them twice on the same band/mode combination.  That's only common sense.  But a new band or mode?  Whoever heard of a DXpediton saying that was out of bounds?  Sorry, but I can't buy the theory that my making a new band or mode contact automatically denies someone an ATNO.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 09, 2023, 07:04:37 AM
"We're spending a king's ransom to go to a really inaccessible place to set up a radio station on the wrong side of a mountain for a large part of the world to operate essentially QRP into makeshift antennas, so even if you can hear us please don't call

HA !!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 09, 2023, 07:12:07 AM
Well, maybe that was the real 3Y0J on FT8, just using MSHV for some reason. They sent "QSY CW" and then immediately showed up on 10115 sounding exactly like they have the past few nights. And just as expected, they are starting to fade out now at 0720z.

I tried working them on both FT8 and CW, but still no joy. Been putting in as much BIC time as I can between school work. It's been nothing but studying and 3Y0J the past few days  ;D

IDK why they were using MSHV but some things point to this being the real 3Y0J. They started to work a lot of JA's about the time band conditions would improve to Japan. After they QSY'd to CW they majority of stations they were working were JA's. No joy here yet. CU in the pileups and GL to all. Praying for the safety of the team.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 09, 2023, 07:15:58 AM
Depends on how you define ATNO

For this one I personally think that 3 x QSO's is acceptable

1 x CW 1 x SSB and 1 x Digi As it is a ATNO on each of those modes,

Some people think ATNO means 1 QSO and some people think the a bandmode slot is a ATNO and they will chase each slot like a new one,

Either way listening to the pile up's almost no one is listening and it is a feeding frenzy so WFWL as they say,

With the absence of a log they will never be able to control dupes and insurance QSO's

ATNO doesn’t mean all time new ones. It’s singular.

Regardless, many people are having difficulty working it even once so those of us who have worked Bouvet on any mode/band should have some consideration for those who have not. It’s common courtesy.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 07:32:09 AM
It’s common courtesy.

No it's not.  It's misplaced altruism.  It's about a certain contingent of ops wanting less competition.  It's what happens when someone can't or doesn't prepare themselves to work the tough ones.  Like having a General class license and not being unable to call in the Extra sub-bands (for example).  Or not assembling an adequate station to pursue the goals to which one claims to aspire.  There will always be those that just can't get through, no matter how you stack the deck to give them an unfair advantage.  You're buying into the false premise that there's only a certain amount of Q's to be had, so we have to reserve a certain quota for the inept and inadequately prepared.

If you wanna be pissed at someone over lack of "common courtesy," choose the DQRMers.  They're the ones that are denying ops of QSOs.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 09, 2023, 07:37:07 AM
It's not so much the idea of calling for new bands/modes that prompted me to make a previous post, it's getting on here and talking about intentions of doing it. That's sorta like publicly thumbing your nose at the DXpedition's request.

Don't blame those who cheat on their taxes, especially after the way our government wastes our hard earned money. But that's something to be done and not talked about. Don't blame the guy who's good with the women, and with some who may be off limits. But that's not something to go around talking about. I know, entirely different subjects that can result with harsher consequences, but the same analogy applies.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 07:45:34 AM
...it's getting on here and talking about intentions of doing it. That's sorta like publicly thumbing your nose at the DXpedition's request.

Perhaps it's appropriate.  This DXpedition has done a number of things wrong, some unavoidable and some not.  Nobody's questioning their bravery or resolve.  I'm surely glad they went and will be relieved when they're home safely.  But this request by them is buying into some unproven and unprovable tropes about what is appropriate and what isn't.

And I don't approve of people cheating on taxes either, whether they talk about it or not.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7JQ on February 09, 2023, 07:49:55 AM
Here in southern AZ, so far I haven't heard a peep from 3Y0J on any of the bands/frequencies they've been on. Compromised HOA antenna (vertical), but the first time I haven't been able to hear at least *something* at *any* signal strength from a DXpedition. Obviously not participating in the pileups...gotta hear 'em to work 'em ::). But as usual, the idiot DQRMers are a disgrace.

As much as everyone's disappointed, imagine how the 3Y0J team feels about not being able to operate as they planned. I just hope they stay safe, and get off that rock unscathed.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 09, 2023, 07:53:58 AM
It’s common courtesy.

No it's not.  It's misplaced altruism.  It's about a certain contingent of ops wanting less competition.  It's what happens when someone can't or doesn't prepare themselves to work the tough ones.  Like having a General class license and not being unable to call in the Extra sub-bands (for example).  Or not assembling an adequate station to pursue the goals to which one claims to aspire.  There will always be those that just can't get through, no matter how you stack the deck to give them an unfair advantage.  You're buying into the false premise that there's only a certain amount of Q's to be had, so we have to reserve a certain quota for the inept and inadequately prepared.

If you wanna be pissed at someone over lack of "common courtesy," choose the DQRMers.  They're the ones that are denying ops of QSOs.

As if altruism or courtesy can  be “misplaced”…

Your post is reminiscent of the type who works a pileup only to hear himself say ‘nice to work you today’ and then rationalize it.
Parenthetically, I’ve worked Bouvet so I won’t do it again so as to give you a chance.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 09, 2023, 08:02:40 AM
They said 2 days ago, if you have worked us once don't work us again.  Then a day ago they said if you have a Q on CW or SSB don't work them on FT8.  I am going by the last statement made.

And honestly, who is 1000% sure right now that the Q isn't with a pirate or heard the full exchange through all the DQRM.  I certainly am not.  If you are, you better be right.  By the time you realize you didn't, they could be QRT.

One other question.  If you were one of the 9 floating over for 500ft in a thermal suit, would you honestly let a radio go idle all night?  I certainly wouldn't.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 09, 2023, 08:19:06 AM
Well, maybe that was the real 3Y0J on FT8, just using MSHV for some reason. They sent "QSY CW" and then immediately showed up on 10115 sounding exactly like they have the past few nights. And just as expected, they are starting to fade out now at 0720z.

I tried working them on both FT8 and CW, but still no joy. Been putting in as much BIC time as I can between school work. It's been nothing but studying and 3Y0J the past few days  ;D

I admire your passion for this hobby... you remind me of myself when I started HAMing back in the late 80's. HAM radio needs more young blood like you. Keep it up.

73 Dragan K0AP

Absolutely, this young man has the drive and potential to reach is goals with ham radio. I remember when he was first contemplating CW. He wasn't sure about giving it a try. He did, and then took off like a rocket. Wouldn't be surprised if he shows up on major DXpeditons one day, he's already been on some already.

You and I were both a bit younger when this QSO took place with my old call sign. Well, I was only 49 at the time, which some may consider an OF. :D

(https://i.postimg.cc/d0PC9d1w/z32xx.jpg)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 09, 2023, 08:36:27 AM
To be fair we were led to believe that we were going to be trying to work a very well setup super station, no one thought it was going to be a few bits of wire the wrong side of a mountain from almost everyone,

I understand they faced extraordinary obstacles I'm just saying no one could have foreseen how limited a station they would have gotten on air,

I'm still grateful for the chance to work them, they have done the hard work on there end, it's up to us now to work them anyway we can,


Or not assembling an adequate station to pursue the goals to which one claims to aspire. 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 09, 2023, 08:43:42 AM
But (working them on) a new band or mode?  Whoever heard of a DXpediton saying that was out of bounds?

I have. They just said it.

Some people think letting EVERYONE have a chance, even those with "inferior" stations, is the best thing to do; others don't feel that way. I don't think we will change anyone's mind. I didn't donate so I PERSONALLY would make a contact, I donate so the operation will be a success and as many people as possible will be happy with the outcome.

Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W0BKR on February 09, 2023, 08:57:57 AM
Have not heard them once yet, prop here is pretty bad not to mention the nit wits out there.  Hopefully over the next few days something could open up.  Too many folks are too wound tight on this meager operation.  GL to all the good ops out there.  Hang in there.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 09:05:45 AM
But (working them on) a new band or mode?  Whoever heard of a DXpediton saying that was out of bounds?

I have. They just said it.

Paul

Yes, and that is what I was responding to.  You have your opinion and I have mine, to which of course you're entitled, as am I.  My point is simply that I don't think it accomplishes what they intend.  I could just as easily state that I think they should have 3 district stations standby (permanently apparently) so they could work zeros.  Unfair geographical advantage and all that, eh?  Except likely it would do no good as I probably won't hear them on the bands/mode where I need them in any case.  Just like the stations that they are supposedly trying to accommodate...


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 09, 2023, 09:22:11 AM
As I said that is what it means to you, not me or thousands of other's

I'm finished calling them awaiting a log upload and possibly a bigger effort on FT8


Depends on how you define ATNO

For this one I personally think that 3 x QSO's is acceptable

1 x CW 1 x SSB and 1 x Digi As it is a ATNO on each of those modes,

Some people think ATNO means 1 QSO and some people think the a bandmode slot is a ATNO and they will chase each slot like a new one,

Either way listening to the pile up's almost no one is listening and it is a feeding frenzy so WFWL as they say,

With the absence of a log they will never be able to control dupes and insurance QSO's

ATNO doesn’t mean all time new ones. It’s singular.

Regardless, many people are having difficulty working it even once so those of us who have worked Bouvet on any mode/band should have some consideration for those who have not. It’s common courtesy.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 09, 2023, 09:24:17 AM
This is all like some kind of tragic soap opera playing out in real life.
Disclaimer I don't blame Ken or the Team but I am just stating the working conditions as I see them and also things that I have heard.

I am hearing that the Big Zodiac is ripped and that was the only thing that could carry over the big generator.  So they are basically using some hand held Honda EU2200i units.  which cannot provide enough power for the Amps and barely can supply heat and power a radio or two.

I Stayed home for the last two days listening to DQRM on 17M and 30M with occasional signals from 3Y0J.  It's just a Category 5 **** show on the bands.  Weak and wire bound 3Y0J is at the mercy of anyone with a QRP radio from just about any country.

Stayed up until 3:30am EST and got so desperate when I saw them on 30M FT8. From 2:00am I was in F/H and noticing that the "FT8" experts where both spread out on Odd and Even Times???  OK so after looking at this for awhile I realize that contrary to their statement they are not in F/H mode.
So I get out of that and I notice the JA stations have surpassed the US stations and it's just a JA feast for 3y0 so after at 3:30 I pack it in. BTW Noticed W2IRT in the FT8 congo line, don't know if he got another Q but hey.



This morning on SSB was crazy, I hear nothing and I got my head phones on and the volume up and this Australian Super Station almost sends me deaf.  This guy is on long path and he is booming in while nothing from 3Y0J.  100 Watts and a 2000ft Wall don't play well together!
Numerous cluster spots that are fake are now the norm. It would not be a problem but 3Y0J is so weak that I kind of have to wait on the QSB to bring them up for awhile.

If your on the West coast consider yourself lucky because you got a chance at LP with these guys but for the rest of us on the east coast it's a nightmare.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4OGW on February 09, 2023, 09:26:51 AM
Log upload: It seems that they have extra team members on the boat, extra radios, and a /MM antenna. Plus at night they don't operate on the high bands. It seems that they could upload logs by sending them to the boat at night using RTTY.

Tor N4OGW
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 09:57:23 AM
Quote
"If your on the West coast consider yourself lucky because you got a chance at LP with these guys but for the rest of us on the east coast it's a nightmare."

Long path on 20 or 30m in our local morning would be most excellent.  Trouble is, they would have to be there.

Perhaps some coastal 6s or 7s have heard some long path on 17 or 15m, but I've not seen any reports.  It just hasn't existed at the times they're on.  Those are tough bands for LP from anywhere inland.  It happens, but not reliably.  Everybody thinks someone else has it easier.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4OGW on February 09, 2023, 10:09:45 AM
Log upload: It seems that they have extra team members on the boat, extra radios, and a /MM antenna. Plus at night they don't operate on the high bands. It seems that they could upload logs by sending them to the boat at night using RTTY.

Tor N4OGW

Of course this requires them to have a little more than wsjtx on their laptops...

Tor N4OGW
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 09, 2023, 10:12:51 AM
It took me a few decades to realize my 100 watts and 6' tall wires were nothing but QRM to the rest of the world.

At 62, I wish I had one minute back for every hour I spent trying (and sometimes succeeding) to work DX from meager stations for the last 51 years. Nobody stepped aside. Nobody dropped the 20 WPM code requirement for Extra. Nobody made a day's travel to an FCC office easy when you're 12.  Hell, I had to wait 'till I got through puberty to even use a microphone. I only needed to hear it once, "who's the YL?" to put that aside.  Luckily that hand key built up a strong wrist, bwahahahahaha!

All those hours of listening and calling, calling, calling amounted to a bunch of frustration & background noise. I remember it oh so well.  51 years worth of it to get to #337.  "Life" got in the way of radio several times during those 51 years, sometimes for a decade and more.

And now after years of building a station, thousands of dollars that could have been used on strippers and cocaine instead of radios, beams and towers, you want folks like me to step aside?

"I Don’t Think So. Homey Don’t Play ‘Dat (https://www.n0un.net/ham-radio-stepping-aside-for-little-pistols/)" was written a couple years ago - more true with every day that passes.

17 Meter LP signal was good this morning. "Take the Shot".

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 10:41:19 AM
Nobody stepped aside. Nobody dropped the 20 WPM code requirement for Extra. Nobody made a day's travel to an FCC office easy when you're 12.

All those hours of listening and calling, calling, calling amounted to a bunch of frustration & background noise. I remember it oh so well.  51 years worth of it to get to #337.  "Life" got in the way of radio several times during those 51 years, sometimes for a decade and more.

And now after years of building a station, thousands of dollars that could have been used on strippers and cocaine instead of radios, beams and towers, you want folks like me to step aside?

They didn't?  Well those meanies.

Nobody considers that some of the rest of us have paid dues too.  I wonder how many of the "Give us a chance you big meanie" guys have spent hours precariously hanging off big assed towers installing Yagis or quads or slopers...in order to use them.  I've done that for many others too, for free, for guys who can't...or just won't.  Or slaved away at some brain-dead job in order to afford that amp to warm the shack.  Don't you dare call me selfish.  You play the hand your dealt and make your own luck.

Quote
17 Meter LP signal was good this morning. "Take the Shot".

NØUN

17m LP generally or 3Y0J specifically?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 09, 2023, 10:41:40 AM
You do realize that THEY are the ones with the 3Y0J QSL cards, right? Not sure I would piss them off.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 09, 2023, 10:49:08 AM
Quote
17 Meter LP signal was good this morning. "Take the Shot".

NØUN
Quote
17m LP generally or 3Y0J specifically?

LP but not if your on the East coast.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 10:52:05 AM
You do realize that THEY are the ones with the 3Y0J QSL cards, right? Not sure I would piss them off.

Not sure playing stupid games with confirmations wouldn't piss the ARRL off too.  Maybe disallow the expedition and then nobody gets a confirmation.  And then there's the funding for the next one.

Sorry you haven't worked 'em, Paul.  Not my fault really.  DQRM and all that, you know?  Do you really think some lonely KØ sitting in the middle of a volcanic caldera out here in no-man's land has some kind advantage over you?  The only NA stations I've heard (and I haven't heard them all, of course) work them on 15 & 17 have been in you neck of the woods.  Look at Lumpy.  He put an antenna on 30m just to work these guys.  What did you do to get ready?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 10:53:51 AM


LP but not if your on the East coast.

You're.  Contraction for "you are."  That's the second time today.  You're welcome.

Plus; you're not reading for content again.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 09, 2023, 10:59:19 AM
You do realize that THEY are the ones with the 3Y0J QSL cards, right? Not sure I would piss them off.

Not sure playing stupid games with conformations wouldn't piss the ARRL off too.  And then there's the funding for the next one.

Sorry you haven't worked 'em, Paul.  Not my fault really.  DQRM and all that, you know? 

My only point was that flouting you will do something they specifically asked you NOT do might just get you a NIL that you didn't expect. Yes, 600 NIL's might be a problem, a few not so much

And I have worked them already; I am done.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 11:10:55 AM

And I have worked them already; I am done.

As am I.  If that's what they want, that's what they'll get.  What you (and few others) overlook is my actual point.  I didn't say I wouldn't comply with their wishes, I am saying I believe at best it has no useful purpose.  At worst it's counter-productive.

Congrats on the Q.  Wish I had your geographical advantage.  Sometimes.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AJ8MH on February 09, 2023, 11:34:19 AM
Well, I'm really surprised more US hams aren't operating outside of 18.068 to 18.110.  I see of few between 18.112 and 18.115, but not many.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 09, 2023, 11:36:03 AM
Nobody stepped aside. Nobody dropped the 20 WPM code requirement for Extra. Nobody made a day's travel to an FCC office easy when you're 12.

All those hours of listening and calling, calling, calling amounted to a bunch of frustration & background noise. I remember it oh so well.  51 years worth of it to get to #337.  "Life" got in the way of radio several times during those 51 years, sometimes for a decade and more.

And now after years of building a station, thousands of dollars that could have been used on strippers and cocaine instead of radios, beams and towers, you want folks like me to step aside?

They didn't?  Well those meanies.

Nobody considers that some of the rest of us have paid dues too.  I wonder how many of the "Give us a chance you big meanie" guys have spent hours precariously hanging off big assed towers installing Yagis or quads or slopers...in order to use them.  I've done that for many others too, for free, for guys who can't...or just won't.  Or slaved away at some brain-dead job in order to afford that amp to warm the shack.  Don't you dare call me selfish.  You play the hand your dealt and make your own luck.

Quote
17 Meter LP signal was good this morning. "Take the Shot".

NØUN

17m LP generally or 3Y0J specifically?

Larry, it was weird this morning.

I started listening longpath a little after 8 AM our time local, nothing, not even a sniff.  Then around 9 AM they started coming in and out.  Out for minutes at a time, in for 30 seconds.  Then their signal started getting stable enough to call.  It was a frustrating pile between the DQRM and EU/AS.  Obviously some parts of the world were hearing him fine too with 4 out of 5 callers he was working - Russian.  Then a couple 5's got through. Then a couple 6's. THEN he said QRX, QRX.  I thought, "damn, not again".

Of course he was spotted on 18.120 SSB (or he already left) and I went to listen. Nothing. Then a few minutes later he came back to CW, and that pileup went wide to 12 kc (or so) in a hurry.

And then there was this:

Recording (https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/3Y0J-17M-LP.mp3)

My 17 meter antenna is a cheap (used to be) 203BA.  I shortened up the elements and tuned it to 17 Meters.  I left the boom spacing alone. It's only at 50' height.  It works better than I could have ever expected.

Here's a little somethin' missed by 99%, and something I picked up on - when you see a spot from NP4G, you best get with it  :)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 09, 2023, 11:36:16 AM
So now the latest wrinkle. They are supposedly operating FT8 on 17m as of this afternoon (Thursday, Feb. 9th). Same as last night, two streams, F/H on the wrong time slot. They are not audible to me on either short or long path. They're using 18.112 and there are a ton of North American stations calling them, But here's the problem. The US and Canada do not have data privileges above 18.110! ITU Region 1 does allow data on that frequency, so this was likely a conscious decision to target EU.

Both time slots are chock full of callers, from 300 to 3000 Hz, but I'm seeing almost nobody giving RR73, so obviously most are just calling blindly, just like they do on CW/SSB.

One explanation I saw this morning is that they are not using the official WSJT-X software for F/H; they are using JTDX, which does allow a fox to operate on the second time slot. But it's still a very curious choice, and it's causing a lot of problems.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 09, 2023, 11:41:41 AM
51 years worth of it to get to #337. "Life" got in the way of radio several times during those 51 years, sometimes for a decade and more.
Life's too short for QRP and life's too short for crappy antennas. But you got here, and you did it with far less than most of us, so huzzah.

And now after years of building a station, thousands of dollars that could have been used on strippers and cocaine instead of radios, beams and towers
I think I'm now going to refer to stations like yours as H&B-class stations.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2LO on February 09, 2023, 11:48:57 AM
   I'm in central Tennessee and was very surprised to have decent copy long path both yesterday and today on 17 while there was nothing SP, all this around 15-17 UTC. 15m had nothing despite spots so keep trying; you may find an opportunity presents itself.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 09, 2023, 11:57:42 AM
So now the latest wrinkle. They are supposedly operating FT8 on 17m as of this afternoon (Thursday, Feb. 9th). Same as last night, two streams, F/H on the wrong time slot. They are not audible to me on either short or long path. They're using 18.112 and there are a ton of North American stations calling them, But here's the problem. The US and Canada do not have data privileges above 18.110! ITU Region 1 does allow data on that frequency, so this was likely a conscious decision to target EU.

Hey Pete,

If the NA stations work 3Y0J outside their privileges on 17 meters how will that affect DXCC? You only need to put in the band in LOTW.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 09, 2023, 12:02:11 PM
10115 in JA vs at my qth in NJ:

@JA7 : https://twitter.com/jd1bmh/status/1623542846711283713?s=20&t=YLHJ5rkIeNY429QH-w4N6w

@wa2vuy NJ: https://youtu.be/NnLZ-vGI7zU (and yes,  3Y0J is in that mess)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 09, 2023, 12:02:16 PM
If the NA stations work 3Y0J outside their privileges on 17 meters how will that affect DXCC? You only need to put in the band in LOTW.
If you're fine with violating FCC regulations then please go right ahead. Same with the big guns who were very obviously running 1500W (or more) on 30m. But if you're putting your callsign out there operating out of band in a mode where every single transmission is in everybody's ALL.TXT file, it's there for the whole world to see that you couldn't care less about FCC regs.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 09, 2023, 12:07:16 PM

And then there was this:

Recording (https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/3Y0J-17M-LP.mp3)


Can't get much clearer than that. Congrats.

Is your filter like 100Hz?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 09, 2023, 12:11:14 PM
Quote
17 Meter LP signal was good this morning. "Take the Shot".

NØUN
Quote
17m LP generally or 3Y0J specifically?

LP but not if your on the East coast.

The map that AE5X made a couple years ago spelled out exactly what we are seeing now.  The signals cannot make it over the mountain to their Northwest.  There is no way around this.  There was also no way around what the Norwegian officials gave for landing permission.  The west & north sides were out, some kind of protected parks - the only option was Cape Fie on the Southeast side of Bouvet.  Making matters worse was the unfortunate loss of gain antennas, amplifiers and the sheer number of stations (chances).

AE5X Blog Post With Map (http://ae5x.blogspot.com/2021/08/time-for-north-american-dxers-to.html)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: US5WE on February 09, 2023, 12:18:03 PM
The operator we have worked with last night on 30m CW was an excellent one. It was hard to get through NA wall which was huge but he copied us.
Great job! 73/88 Vic US5WE and Helen UR5WA
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 09, 2023, 12:28:16 PM

And then there was this:

Recording (https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/3Y0J-17M-LP.mp3)


Can't get much clearer than that. Congrats.

Is your filter like 100Hz?

Thanks. 250Hz for that Q. FTDX101MP.

NØUN


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 12:37:31 PM

And then there was this:

Recording (https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/3Y0J-17M-LP.mp3)

Can't get much clearer than that. Congrats.

Is your filter like 100Hz?

Thanks. 250Hz for that Q. FTDX101MP.

NØUN

Congrats??!!??  That's his second band!  OMG, fall on my sword!  Call the QSO cops!

PS:  Lumpy, sounds great, sounds real too.  :D  I confess, I am remiss. I didn't listen LP this morning.  Had the beam SP and heard nada.  Prolly a little early too.  QSYed to 10m and worked some nice stuff there.  May renege on my promise, jus' so you can't have all the bragging rights.

What beam heading?  Over JA or skew path to the SW?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NX7U on February 09, 2023, 12:58:57 PM
At the risk of starting nuclear war, the crux of the argument is "equal outcome" vs "equal opportunity".

In any event, I've been doing this for 47 years now; DXing is definitely "the art of the possible".  I lost my hexbeam and am now on my backup EFHW.  Until last night, I heard absolutely zero--not even a hint of a whisper of what might be a signal.  My lovely wife was as disappointed as I was--but like I said, it's the art of the possible.  Maybe wire-to-wire through 700m of rock just isn't possible.  And then...the clouds parted and the sun shone and for a whole 10 minutes I could copy them on 30m CW last night...and I worked 'em (and friends heard it to confirm).

Keep the faith.  #338 for me (would be 339 if Baldur had actually been on Gloreuses).
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 01:06:30 PM
Reading in a different venue this morning and came across this:

Quote
Tone is more difficult to convey on this "social" media than it used to be on the printed page. Lots of people don't do irony these days, and sarcasm can often become invisible to people less likely to understand attitudes because they're often just scrolling around looking to pick fights or display their political or moral superiority at the first hint of difference.

Jamie O'Neill

It just seemed appropriate to inject here.  Thanks Jamie, hope you don't mind me inserting this into a different context. (itals: mine)

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 09, 2023, 01:13:07 PM
Quote from: WB9LUR link=topic=138002.msg1286384#msg1286384
When (if?) ClubLog stats are available the DX pigs won't be able to hide.
Maybe we should create a special award for them? The DX Piggy.

It's already in the works. There will be awards for the regular piggies, plaques for the most dupes, and a special marathon piggy trophy for the biggest of them all... . OINK OINK...
(https://i.postimg.cc/NMR7SYnW/piggy.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 01:18:49 PM
Quote from: WB9LUR link=topic=138002.msg1286384#msg1286384
When (if?) ClubLog stats are available the DX pigs won't be able to hide.
Maybe we should create a special award for them? The DX Piggy.

It's already in the works.

...display their political or moral superiority at the first hint of difference.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 09, 2023, 01:24:51 PM

And then there was this:

Recording (https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/3Y0J-17M-LP.mp3)

Can't get much clearer than that. Congrats.

Is your filter like 100Hz?

Thanks. 250Hz for that Q. FTDX101MP.

NØUN

Congrats??!!??  That's his second band!  OMG, fall on my sword!  Call the QSO cops!

PS:  Lumpy, sounds great, sounds real too.  :D  I confess, I am remiss. I didn't listen LP this morning.  Had the beam SP and heard nada.  Prolly a little early too.  QSYed to 10m and worked some nice stuff there.  May renege on my promise, jus' so you can't have all the bragging rights.

What beam heading?  Over JA or skew path to the SW?

Do you know I spent 4 hours trying to figure out why if I point to Bouvet shortpath at 132 degrees, they're SP to me is 280 degrees (and not 312)? I didn't go to bed until I figured it out.

My little coconut forgot about a lesson I musta' learned in High School (before I dropped out to become a Marine). The shortest distance between two points is a straight line, but the shortest distance between two points over a round earth is the "Great Circle" line.

I knew there would most probably be no way I would hear them through the mountain, especially with low power, so I have everything favoring (and pointed) to the longpath.  I don't even try to listen short path on any beam.  Of course the vertical is just what it is.

From here in Colorado the "Initial Heading" longpath to Bouvet is 312 degrees, over JA.  They were dead on 312 degrees the last couple mornings.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 09, 2023, 01:34:16 PM
I knew there would most probably be no way I would hear them through the mountain, especially with low power, so I have everything favoring (and pointed) to the longpath.  I don't even try to listen short path on any beam.  Of course the vertical is just what it is.
NØUN
I too feared that the topography of the island would make short path all but impossible, but all the times I have been able to copy them, it has been via short path. While I do not have rotatable antennas, I do know that 30m long path to Bouvet is not possible at 06z (at least from my setup). Might be worth swinging your beams around to check on occasion!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 09, 2023, 01:39:16 PM
Absolutely, this young man has the drive and potential to reach is goals with ham radio. I remember when he was first contemplating CW. He wasn't sure about giving it a try. He did, and then took off like a rocket. Wouldn't be surprised if he shows up on major DXpeditons one day, he's already been on some already.
I appreciate the kind words! Although I must say that contrary to what some might think, I really am not all that good of a CW op. Making a quick QSO where I just need to copy my call and a few other CW "phrases" is ok, but beyond that, I still have a long ways to go. One of these days when I have some time, I need to buckle down and focus on getting fully proficient.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3NEA on February 09, 2023, 01:45:07 PM
The band plan on the RAC web site (https://www.rac.ca/rac-0-30-mhz-band-plan/) for the 17m band shows the 18.110-18.168 MHz segment as Phone, but that is the primary mode, not the only allowed mode. Industry Canada allows us (https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/spectrum-management-telecommunications/en/licences-and-certificates/regulations-reference-rbr/rbr-4-standards-operation-radio-stations-amateur-radio-service#t1) to use any mode with the bandwidh up to 6 kHz in that segment.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 09, 2023, 01:45:52 PM
Hey Pete,

If the NA stations work 3Y0J outside their privileges on 17 meters how will that affect DXCC? You only need to put in the band in LOTW.

73 Rich KB8GAE

I would be worried and please do not shoot the messenger.
There are many ARRL staff in those pileups and I just cannot see them allowing contacts on that Band, Mode, Date and time to be allowed.  I am sure they are very aware of the time stamp on these activities.
I suspect that something has already been said to them about this by others, So I would not feel comfortable with an out of band contact on a Dxpedition with this kind of high profile.

BTW take a look at the cluster spots for 3Y0J on 17M and you will see that about 1 in 4 people are warning that it is out of band for US Ops.

73s

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 09, 2023, 01:49:12 PM
I knew there would most probably be no way I would hear them through the mountain, especially with low power, so I have everything favoring (and pointed) to the longpath.  I don't even try to listen short path on any beam.  Of course the vertical is just what it is.
NØUN
I too feared that the topography of the island would make short path all but impossible, but all the times I have been able to copy them, it has been via short path. While I do not have rotatable antennas, I do know that 30m long path to Bouvet is not possible at 06z (at least from my setup). Might be worth swinging your beams around to check on occasion!

I kept a KT-34XA on the short path on 15 Meters in the late afternoon - my better, taller GXP on the LP.  But after never even sniffing them on 15 Meters the last couple days I turned it around to the LP also.  Absolute zero on 15 Meters. MUF just not high enough I guess.

I think if they get on 20 Meters, the longpath will be wide open all morning for all of NA.

These hours of listening remind me of when I was your age. Keep up the good work, stay involved!  You too will be addicted like the rest of us (if you already aren't)!

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 09, 2023, 02:04:14 PM

I appreciate the kind words! Although I must say that contrary to what some might think, I really am not all that good of a CW op. Making a quick QSO where I just need to copy my call and a few other CW "phrases" is ok, but beyond that, I still have a long ways to go. One of these days when I have some time, I need to buckle down and focus on getting fully proficient.

It just takes practice! I used to listen to the ARRL CW practice broadcasts at night to help my proficiency. As you get comfortable - you can make some rag chew QSO's. Getting back to Dx'ing - working pileups in CW also takes some skills you can practice. You remind me alot of me when I was younger getting in to chasing DX. Keep up the great work Mason! Seeing that you've activated a few places (something I've never done and would love to someday) - I'll bet we'll see you with a group on a raft heading to activate some frozen rock some day!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 09, 2023, 03:50:37 PM
The band plan on the RAC web site (https://www.rac.ca/rac-0-30-mhz-band-plan/) for the 17m band shows the 18.110-18.168 MHz segment as Phone, but that is the primary mode, not the only allowed mode. Industry Canada allows us (https://ised-isde.canada.ca/site/spectrum-management-telecommunications/en/licences-and-certificates/regulations-reference-rbr/rbr-4-standards-operation-radio-stations-amateur-radio-service#t1) to use any mode with the bandwidth up to 6 kHz in that segment.

Thank you for the clarification. I assumed (yep!) what RAC published was the IC regulations, just as what the ARRL publishes are the FCC's regulations. I regret the error.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 09, 2023, 04:15:20 PM
Latest update:

Quote
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
The 3Y0J Team is approaching the 7,000 QSO mark and continues to operate through the ongoing storm. They had a good night sleep. Last night 30m FT8 received great signals from JA and NA West coast. Unfortunately, some callers were not using Fox/Hound. Their QSOs were not logged. As stated previously, please remember that on FT8 mode 3Y0J will always be Fox/Hound. The weather in Bouvet was sunny skies and winds around 40 knots. We will continue to operate weather permitting. The 3Y0J Team wishes to thank the Amateur Radio community for their support.
73,
Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 09, 2023, 04:24:39 PM
Its a shame that after 10 days since arriving, "approaching 7,000 Qs" is the milestone.  9 team members on island.  They can't be too happy with the result.  Imagine if one radio was constantly on 20M 24/7...sigh....

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 09, 2023, 04:44:43 PM

Imagine if one radio was constantly on 20M 24/7...sigh....

Ed  N1UR

Ed, I have been imagining that from the start of their operation  ;D ;D ;D

...but it's okay... not a big deal... this is just a hobby... if it's meant to be, it's meant to be...

 ;D ;D ;D

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 09, 2023, 04:47:37 PM
Nice and loud on 30m now.

I'm listening on the delta loop I cobbled together for this for an edge on 30m. I might keep it around a little while. Liking it.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 09, 2023, 04:50:17 PM
Its a shame that after 10 days since arriving, "approaching 7,000 Qs" is the milestone.  9 team members on island.  They can't be too happy with the result.  Imagine if one radio was constantly on 20M 24/7...sigh....

Ed  N1UR
Where did anyone say 7000 was a milestone? It’s simply the total thus far.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 09, 2023, 04:51:39 PM
The 30 Meter DX Engineering Comtek Vertical they are using is 24' tall. I know, I'm using one.

This same antenna can be easily shortened to around 16 1/2' and make a 20 Meter 1/4 Wave Vertical.

This is the 30 (https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/com-30va)

This is the 20 (https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/com-20va)

I passed this info along to Steve. Hopefully he can pass that along to the Team.

This antenna is 2" at the bottom and 1 1/2" at the top. Maybe 6 pieces all slide into each other.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 09, 2023, 05:24:09 PM
These guys are smart boys.  They know how to re-deploy a 30 meter antenna into a 20M antenna.  If they have not done it by now, there has to be a reason.  Have no idea what that is, nor why 8 team members don't care if they operate all night long, but there must be a reason.  Hope we learn what it is some day.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AJ8MH on February 09, 2023, 05:24:25 PM
Quote
Last night 30m FT8 received great signals from JA and NA West coast. Unfortunately, some callers were not using Fox/Hound.

Interesting...  The 3Y0J I was listening to after midnight this morning on 30 was not using F/H and that's the only 3Y0J I saw print across the screen in two hours.  I'm glad that the F/H mode has been stated again. Proves to me that the FT8 signals I've managed to pull out of the noise have not been the real 3Y0J on any band.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W9AC on February 09, 2023, 05:38:27 PM
Its a shame that after 10 days since arriving, "approaching 7,000 Qs" is the milestone.  9 team members on island.  They can't be too happy with the result.  Imagine if one radio was constantly on 20M 24/7...sigh....

Ed  N1UR

I think if any of us lived through their challenges, we would be more than happy with the result.

Paul, W9AC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 09, 2023, 06:34:15 PM
why 8 team members don't care if they operate all night long, but there must be a reason.  Hope we learn what it is some day.

If I had to guess, and it's only a guess, it's probably some combination of needing to divert power to use extra heaters in the tent at night, and conserving a very limited supply of fuel.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on February 09, 2023, 07:10:42 PM
The
following was posted to FaceBook with pictures and videos:



3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:


The
3Y0J Team is approaching the 7,000 QSO mark and continues to operate
through the ongoing storm. They had a good night sleep. Last night 30m
FT8 received great signals from JA and NA West coast. Unfortunately,
some callers were not using Fox/Hound. Their QSOs were not logged. As
stated previously, please remember that on FT8 mode 3Y0J will always be
Fox/Hound. The weather in Bouvet was sunny skies and winds around 40
knots. We will continue to
operate weather permitting. The 3Y0J Team wishes to thank the Amateur
Radio community for their support.


73,

Steve
N2AJ

Media
Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 09, 2023, 08:24:11 PM
It does feel like we are witnessing a kind of loss of innocence for FT8.  The amazing spectacle on 30 the last couple of nights shows that the DQRM that plagues CW and Phone is also possible on FT8, just in a different form.  Even now, the worthies are arguing about which 3Y0J is the "real" one.  Or maybe there are more than 2 stations operating?  Even the pilots don't seem entirely certain.

Good luck to all wanting an FT8 QSO.  I was lying in wait on 17 CW long path this morning and went straight into the log, which means I have two probably-good Qs with two probably-actually-3Y0Js, so I am done and standing down.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 09, 2023, 09:08:25 PM
Yeah, it does look like the bad guys finally figured it out.  Or, cared enough to persist.

Of course, if the expedition was able to do nightly uploads, the sickos might get discouraged as they heretofore have -- on any mode.

The combination of low power and no uploads probably gives them a new kind of thrill.  Up to now, they have seemed to avoid FT8 because nobody heard them (no ego strokes) and nobody cared.  At least, that's what I've concluded.  There was, after all, no reason they couldn't have done this from day one on FT8 F&H.  They just never cared to do so before.

I expect in an expedition with three or four stations and a KW each, they probably give up just as they always do.

I've long thought their main pleasure was the sound of their own voice -- or paddle -- annoying folks. 

But it looks like at least some of them have found a new, sick game.  Be interesting to see if that continues for less dire expeditions.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 09:16:22 PM
A good part of the mayhem...perhaps the wrong word...confusion, seems to stem from callers operating on the wrong cycle.  I believe this is because WSJT forces transmit on the odd cycle when in F/H mode.  Since 3Y0J is transmitting on odd, that guarantees no QSO.  I was able to get a contact by leaving WSJT in normal mode, then manually moving my transmit to his frequency when he called me.  Surely there's a better way to do that.  Is there a way to force WSJT to transmit on the even cycle even when in F/H?  It appears at least half the callers have it figured out as not everyone was out of sync.  Hard to believe all those on the correct cycle were using some alternative program like JTDX.  Isn't WSJT still predominant?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0UA on February 09, 2023, 09:20:52 PM
Yeah, it does look like the bad guys finally figured it out.  Or, cared enough to persist.

Of course, if the expedition was able to do nightly uploads, the sickos might get discouraged as they heretofore have -- on any mode.

The combination of low power and no uploads probably gives them a new kind of thrill.  Up to now, they have seemed to avoid FT8 because nobody heard them (no ego strokes) and nobody cared.  At least, that's what I've concluded.  There was, after all, no reason they couldn't have done this from day one on FT8 F&H.  They just never cared to do so before.

I expect in an expedition with three or four stations and a KW each, they probably give up just as they always do.

I've long thought their main pleasure was the sound of their own voice -- or paddle -- annoying folks. 

But it looks like at least some of them have found a new, sick game.  Be interesting to see if that continues for less dire expeditions.

Yes, but people bring it on themselves. Working 3Y0J as a "fox" transmitting on the ODD time slot when they have said OVER and OVER and OVER again, that they will be operating Fox and Hound ONLY. is just dumb. It just feeds the ego of the pirate that is laughing with each QSO he makes. and I bet he/they have made a lot more Q's then 3Y0J ever thought about. Of course I saw someone yesterday take the 3y0j frequency and work dozens of stations on CW expertly and after about every 3rd contact would send PIRATE or FAKE before sending his pirated call, and UP.  Even after hearing the man say he is a pirate dozens still worked him. And were darn glad to get into his log. People are so desperate to work this entity, they will work anything. If a toad frog came on SSB and croaked "3y0J" people would work it. If a cricket chirped out PIRATE 3y0j FAKE, they would call it. I have seen them do it. Crazy.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 09, 2023, 09:25:14 PM
Quote
Yes, but people bring it on themselves. Working 3Y0J as a "fox" transmitting on the ODD time slot when they have said OVER and OVER and OVER again, that they will be operating Fox and Hound ONLY. is just dumb.

That's a bigger problem than pirates and jammers, really.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 09, 2023, 09:26:35 PM
 
Quote
Is there a way to force WSJT to transmit on the even cycle even when in F/H?

They aren't using WSJT-X.  If they were, they would be on even, because for WSJT-X, there's no option to do it any other way in F&H.

They're using one of the others.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 09, 2023, 09:31:57 PM
N7QT posted this on the WWDXC reflector, in case it might be of interest:

Quote
All,

It appears that 3Y0J absolutely requires that we all be in F/H mode in order to get into their log.

Problem is they are TXing on the ODD cycle which WSJT-X F/H doesn’t support (i.e., they are obviously not using WSJT-X). Therefore if you are using WSJT-X here is what you need to do:

#1) In the Settings menu under the General tab, make sure “Allow Tx frequency changes while transmitting is checked. 
#2) Stay in standard mode (i.e, NOT F/H mode)
#3) If you are decoding 3Y0J and they are TXing on the ODD cycle, then set your TX to transmit on the EVEN cycle.
#4) If you are reliably RXing them, start calling them well above 1000Hz.
#5) If you get called, you will need to immediately move your TX frequency to ANY FREQ BELOW 1000Hz, and then send your R-XX signal report. If they send you the RR73, no need to send 73. If you don’t get your RR73 after 4 tries, start over.

Tonight I was seeing individuals working 3Y0J in standard mode (i.e, not moving their TX frequency down) and receiving a RR73 from 3Y0J.  These individuals are likely under the impression that they will be in the log. I am hearing that if  the F/H procedure is not followed, it is most likely they will not be in the log. This is why the pilots are all telling us we must be in F/H mode in order to get into the log.
GL & 73,

-rob N7QT
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 09:42:13 PM
Well Rob, that's exactly what I was forced to do.  And yes to Larry, I understand they aren't using WSJT, but it seems deliberately confusing for them to voluntarily select the odd cycle.  Obviously one should be aware of what cycle both the DX and they themselves are on, but a large majority seem not to be getting it.  Also seems like an oversite in the WSJT software not to be able to compensate.  I spent a lot of time with one finger on the shift key and and another on the mouse at his transmit frequency.  And I did get "RR73."

TNX for the replies.  And damn, it's so easy.  :P
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 09, 2023, 09:46:49 PM
They aren't using WSJT-X.  If they were, they would be on even, because for WSJT-X, there's no option to do it any other way in F&H.

They're using one of the others.
Why? Are the looking for MORE problems than they already have? It seems they are using JTDX, and flipping F/H around. Again, why? Thanks for Rob's tips to manually force WSJTx to the reverse cycle.
I just decoded a few lines with my Yagi pointing Short Path on 30 m clear across a daylight path. It shouldn't work! I'm seeing lots of familiar callsigns going by. Very few transmissions allegedly from 3Y0J.
053430  -6  0.7  304 ~  3Y0J W3UR R-01
053445  -7  0.7  301 ~  W3UR RR73; K0TG <3Y0J> -12
053515  -9  0.7  301 ~  K0TG RR73; K9US <3Y0J> -14
053530   4  0.8  300 ~  3Y0J K9US R-05
053545  -4  0.7  301 ~  K9US RR73; JH1ECG <3Y0J> -04
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 09:50:12 PM
They aren't using WSJT-X.  If they were, they would be on even, because for WSJT-X, there's no option to do it any other way in F&H.

They're using one of the others.


Quote
Why? Are the looking for MORE problems than they already have?

Exactly my point, Luke.  Do they perceive some advantage to doing this?  Why not transmit on the even cycle and accommodate everyone regardless of what software the hound may be using?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5PS on February 09, 2023, 09:56:13 PM
Really weird "big endian" FH setup they're running, but I'm grateful to finally be able to hear them.

Saw several familiar callsigns from here getting through; congrats to all of you.

Back to the hunt.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 10:03:18 PM
Really weird "big endian" FH setup they're running, but I'm grateful to finally be able to hear them.

Saw several familiar callsigns from here getting through; congrats to all of you.

Back to the hunt.

Yep.  And again at their strongest after their sunrise.  GL.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 09, 2023, 10:04:44 PM
They aren't using WSJT-X.  If they were, they would be on even, because for WSJT-X, there's no option to do it any other way in F&H.

They're using one of the others.
Quote
Why? Are the looking for MORE problems than they already have?

Exactly my point, Luke.  Do they perceive some advantage to doing this?  Why not transmit on the odd cycle and accommodate everyone regardless of what software the hound may be using.

Is it possible they are doing this to limit the size of the pileup? 3Y5X would CQ listening up but only be working stations down.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 09, 2023, 10:05:02 PM
I just worked them (hopefully not a pirate) on 14.105. I wasn't even ready for them. Antenna pointed elsewhere. I started to rotate my antenna as I started to call them, but they answered right away as there was no one else calling at that time yet. Fingers crossed it wasn't a pirate. It was now, shortly before 1 am my local time. Luckily I was at my radio doing some stuff. I'm going to now rotate my antenna to see how strong they really are.  ;D ;D ;D

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 09, 2023, 10:11:57 PM
I saw that, too.

I decoded them ,was pointed at Asia at the time.

Very strong all things considered.  Are they really one 20?  WFWL.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 09, 2023, 10:17:13 PM

Is it possible they are doing this to limit the size of the pileup? 3Y5X would CQ listening up but only be working stations down.

73 Rich KB8GAE

Hell who knows?  Are they really limiting the size or just splitting it into two cycles?  Doesn't seem like that's as important on FT8 as SSB or CW.  Just causing more confusion, hard feelings and leaving themselves open to QRM and pie rats.

Incidentally, ZL1AMO (rip) would do exactly the same thing when working split on his DXpeditons.  If he said "Up 2" better try down 2 instead.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 09, 2023, 10:19:28 PM
Someone now on 14105 kHz. I wonder who it may be? Calling in hope.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 09, 2023, 10:21:27 PM
Saw this on the cluster.

Quote
3Y0J         0612Z  14105.0 five streams. S9+30 LOL         VK9DX

Of course, who knows if VK9DX actually posted this.  (upside-down smile emoji)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 09, 2023, 10:25:43 PM
Ridiculously strong.
062430   8  0.4  293 ~  UT5UDX RR73; UT2XQ <3Y0J> -16
062430  16  0.6 2703 ~  3Y0J UA6A KN95
062430  10  0.4  353 ~  JP3TIG 3Y0J -12
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 09, 2023, 10:26:17 PM
I saw that, too.

I decoded them ,was pointed at Asia at the time.

Very strong all things considered.  Are they really one 20?  WFWL.

No idea who this is or if it really is 3Y0J, but the signal seems to be coming from the correct LONG PATH direction at this time. But the signal is HUGE. Three streams +15, +15, +15. Unbelievable.

Okay. I will sleep well tonight... till I find out out was a pirate  ;D ;D ;D

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 09, 2023, 10:27:27 PM
Ridiculously strong.
062430   8  0.4  293 ~  UT5UDX RR73; UT2XQ <3Y0J> -16
062430  16  0.6 2703 ~  3Y0J UA6A KN95
062430  10  0.4  353 ~  JP3TIG 3Y0J -12

Is the signal coming from the correct direction?

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 09, 2023, 10:31:09 PM
Quote
Is it possible they are doing this to limit the size of the pileup?

They are QRMing themselves by transmitting on odd instead of even.  A lot of people, world-wide, run WSJT-X, were told the operation was strictly F&H, and so they end up transmitting on odd.  Just enough might do so right on top of them I imagine.  Hope not, but hope is not what you want to rely upon.

The standard F&H was carefully thought out by some really good DXpeditioners and they considered a lot of scenarios.

We have to super duper admire this team for getting onto the island and getting us anything at all.  We'll be talking about that for years to come. 

But I am not a fan of this "run a major expedition on odd" approach.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 09, 2023, 10:33:51 PM
Is the signal coming from the correct direction?

Marvin VE3VEE
Reportedly. I didn't turn my beam off 202 degrees, Short Path to Bouvet, and they were ridiculously strong.
Transmission has ceased here now, apart from all those who have set their stations to call constantly regardless.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 09, 2023, 10:34:57 PM
This 20m operation might have been a pirate. It just doesn't make much sense via the long path +16 and +17 signal multiple streams and it looks like it just ended. Too bad.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 09, 2023, 10:41:09 PM
I'm afraid so, Marvin. 20 m has ceased.
30 m FT8 chaos continues.
I'm going out to ride my horse.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 09, 2023, 10:44:11 PM
The 20m guy is gone, now.  And, was running even sequence.

WFWL, but it looks kind of slim-ish to these eyes.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 09, 2023, 10:47:23 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/FFkZ2tK0/3y-pirate.jpg)

Too strong to be real...

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3NEA on February 09, 2023, 10:48:46 PM
My guess is that they are using WSJT-X in the Fox mode, but their system clock is way off. They do have a GPS unit for time sync, but it is not clear if they took it to the camp or left at the boat. The software shows that their timing error is 0.4 s, a GPS-controlled clock would do better than that.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 09, 2023, 10:54:31 PM
At 07:00 UTC yesterday they switched from FT8 to CW - the two previous nights - the only time I've heard them well enough to call has been (approx) between 05:30 and 07:30 - if they hold to the same sked as last night, switch to CW and prop isn't any worse - maybe get a brief shot. Otherwise will pull the plug.

Congratulations to those who have made the QSO.

Bash on regardless for the rest of us!

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3NEA on February 09, 2023, 10:59:48 PM
They are on 10.116 CW now, no spots yet
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 09, 2023, 11:09:55 PM
Sun rise Western Europe 08:05 local, yet one changes from 30m FT8 to 30m CW..
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 09, 2023, 11:14:28 PM
This is monkey business. If you gotta jump through hoops to call even on F/H, someone should tell the East Coast pilot...  065945  15  0.2 1644 ~  3Y0J N2AJ FN30
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5MOA on February 09, 2023, 11:23:30 PM
542 on 30cw
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0AP on February 09, 2023, 11:25:52 PM
This is monkey business. If you gotta jump through hoops to call even on F/H, someone should tell the East Coast pilot...  065945  15  0.2 1644 ~  3Y0J N2AJ FN30

Last night I had a clear copy and maybe could have worked them but they were TX-ing on ODD... so, based on the instructions from the pilot I thought it was a Pirate and did not try to call.
We gonna have to improvise, I guess. Good copy this night again on 10.144. Maybe tomorrow...

73 Dragan K0AP
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 09, 2023, 11:30:54 PM
Got em at 07:28 - DQRM so bad I had to resend a few times before giving report to make sure.

Recorded / good QSO I do believe. Like everyone else I gotta see it in the log but will stand down for now.

Good luck.



Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 09, 2023, 11:36:46 PM
Last night I had a clear copy and maybe could have worked them but they were TX-ing on ODD... so, based on the instructions from the pilot I thought it was a Pirate and did not try to call.

I "worked them" last night but everybody said it was a pirate, plus I never got a 73, so I marked the QSO as invalid in my log. I tried again tonight, same opposite slot situation, but I got the RR73. Combined with the fact that I didn't see a single print of 3Y0J on even since the first spots on the 8th, and I can only surmise the station I worked was likely legitimate. We'll hopefully know for sure by the weekend. I saw a lot of familiar eHam callsigns getting in the log tonight too. Like others here, I used "Fake F/H" by manually dropping into the sub-band when he (FINALLY) called me after nearly three hours of trying.

There was a surprisingly large number of very, very loud "200 Watt" stateside signals tonight as well. According to the scale on my Elecraft P3 bandscope, some were 50dB above the noise floor. Very curious that!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE4YD on February 09, 2023, 11:41:53 PM
Peter and Randy I saw both of your contacts and they were good, if he was the real deal.
Based on the pattern used the last 2 or 3 nights it appears legit.
Congrats to both of you
73
David  KE4YD
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 09, 2023, 11:47:26 PM
Peter and Randy I saw both of your contacts and they were good, if he was the real deal.
Based on the pattern used the last 2 or 3 nights it appears legit.
Congrats to both of you
73
David  KE4YD

Thanks! PS - you mighta saw Peter's QSO but you woulda had to hear mine.

Randy / WB9LUR

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 10, 2023, 01:53:45 AM
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo

At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU  3Y0J  UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.

00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.

01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 10, 2023, 02:33:46 AM
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo

At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU  3Y0J  UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.

00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.

01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station

Think there'll be more than average i.e. many busted calls in 3Y0J's log.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 10, 2023, 02:54:47 AM
Loud here on 18072 kHz CW. Very thin pileup, and lots of CQing.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 10, 2023, 02:59:37 AM
congrats randy you should be pretty confident with that qso you vertical is working well.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NI0C on February 10, 2023, 03:04:38 AM
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo

At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU  3Y0J  UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.

00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.

01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station
Sounds like a solid QSO to me Randy. Signals quite strong there in Florida. Here in the black hole of the Midwest he was much weaker last night than the night before (around the same time ~07:00 UTC).
Congrats on making the QSO!
73 de Chuck  NI0C
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 10, 2023, 03:10:22 AM
I sure hope we can see the log online soon. Most of us don't know what the heck we have worked in the past week with all the shenanigans (to put it politely) going on.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 10, 2023, 03:28:23 AM
they saay f/h hound and then use a euro version of wsjt-x and by admission they are not fans of wsjt-x why not have a very experienced ft8 op on the trip saves silly mistakes
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 10, 2023, 03:28:49 AM
Agree.  Which is why its almost offensive to be asking the DX community to not work them again if "you are pretty sure you have a QSO".  WITH WHO?  And while it not the fault of the DXpedition that there are pirates and DQRM, we all know that if there were 2 stations on, 24/7 on 40 - 10 and they were using their pilots better (there are pilots right?), there would be a lot less confusion going on right now.

Accepting the modification and scale down for sure.  Hats off to them for getting on at all.  But not accepting the 1 radio at night and band selection and lack of the pilots adding any value.  For a $750,000 DXpedition, its just shameful.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1VT on February 10, 2023, 03:31:01 AM
 Congratulations Randy!  You can almost hear my call at the end of that recording!

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 10, 2023, 03:38:14 AM
Congratulations Randy!  You can almost hear my call at the end of that recording!


Ha! I went back and listened to the end - he does give your entire call - very loud and clear too!

Randy / WB9LUR

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 10, 2023, 03:47:03 AM
I just worked *someone* on 18107 kHz FT8. The station signing "3Y0J" was transmitting in odd slots, as we were told they Would Not. So I duped the band, not concerned about offending a Pirate.
Now I'm seeing up to +13 from the "3Y0J", that is, until the two JA stations plonked right on top of the two streams!
The FT8 operations have left a lot to be desired, and have left the DXpedition wide open to all the crap we have witnessed over the past week.
You'll remember Thierry FT8WW was on Odds initially, but after a day or so switched to and remained on Evens and all went as well as it could.
I've seen conflicting data from two sources claiming The Gospel of FT8 from the DXpedition.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 10, 2023, 03:48:49 AM
Congratulations Randy!  You can almost hear my call at the end of that recording!


Just sent you an email with the full audio clip of your call. Very small Mp3 file.

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 10, 2023, 03:57:24 AM
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo

At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU  3Y0J  UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.

00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.

01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station
Sounds like a solid QSO to me Randy. Signals quite strong there in Florida. Here in the black hole of the Midwest he was much weaker last night than the night before (around the same time ~07:00 UTC).
Congrats on making the QSO!
73 de Chuck  NI0C

Thanks! Most of the time I have not been able to hear them at all. Been trying every night but the dang DQRM is so bad - I am hearing many back and forth call sign exchanges sometimes - all just to complete a single QSO. Gotta really hurt their Q-rate. I don't use FT8 but it seems they have had some issues too...

Good luck to you - keep trying - even when they are whisper weak - if you can copy them - they can likely copy you.


Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4JK on February 10, 2023, 04:12:44 AM
I have accepted the fact that I probably won't work this one, and that's on me. I DID do a lot of work to my vertical to prepare for this (added 30m, put down lots more radials etc.) but it's probably not enough for the path I have.... They are hardly a whisper when I have listened and managed to pick them out through the mess of SLIMs and jerks. I also haven't been able to put in the requisite Butt in chair time due to work obligations, etc. I'm going to really try to focus this weekend though.

Congrats to the deserving who made it through this mess of QRM and SLIMS to have a good Q. I know every time a rare one gets activated this way, we always say "wow this QRM and other nonsense is the worst I have ever heard" to the point that's it's cliche... But this one really takes the taco I think...

This one's a real "Excrement Festival"

Most importantly, congrats to the 3Y0J team for still getting on the air despite the setbacks. Sunken Zodiac? SWIMMING TO SHORE IN A SURVIVAL SUIT? That's absolutely friggin' nuts and they should have a parade when they get back home.

I'm not a digital op (although I really like playing with WSPR) but what I can't get my head around is that the F/H mode in the two most popular software programs for FT8 appear to not be easily compatible with each other.... I'm a big proponent of the whole "DX IS" mindset but.... That's extremely disappointing and nearly tragic, I think.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 10, 2023, 04:20:32 AM
...I DID do a lot of work to my vertical to prepare for this (added 30m, put down lots more radials etc.) but it's probably not enough for the path I have....


!00 watts here with a ground mounted vertical over buried radials. Several of us here have used verticals to work them. As I understand it - that's what 3Y0J is using too.

You can indeed work them, and in fact, it is very likely that they can hear you better than you hear them.

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 10, 2023, 04:29:15 AM
I appreciate the kind words! Although I must say that contrary to what some might think, I really am not all that good of a CW op. Making a quick QSO where I just need to copy my call and a few other CW "phrases" is ok, but beyond that, I still have a long ways to go. One of these days when I have some time, I need to buckle down and focus on getting fully proficient.

Get your degree first and start your career first.  There is plenty of time to learn CW proficiently after you have settled down into your working career.   

Talk to a few guys from CW Ops or even a few FOCers.  The old adage of "How do you get to the Met?  Lots and lots of practice, applies. 

But it also depends what you want to do with CW.  Have a ragchew at 30 wpm?   Copy callsigns and a quick contest exchange at 40+ ?   There are different practice regiments for each. 



Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 10, 2023, 05:44:00 AM
I have accepted the fact that I probably won't work this one, and that's on me. I DID do a lot of work to my vertical to prepare for this...

Can you throw up a temporary 30M dipole pointed at them. ANYTHING, even up 20 feet. And take it down at midnight if you have to. I couldn't hear them at ALL on 30M my 100' long doublet up 40' (they were in a null on 30M); then I threw up a temporary dipole pointed right at em and got them easily the second day. Here in MD my window for good copy was about 5:00-6:30pm on 30M, then they were pretty weak.

Don't give up and you can't just do the same thing over and over and over... You have to change SOMETHING. Try something different; go to a park and throw up dipole if you have to. The a$$holes running 1 KW on 30M already have their QSO so regular LP guys still have a chance with a DECENT antenna. And most guys don't have yagis for 30M.

Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1VT on February 10, 2023, 05:58:42 AM
I use a half square at 25 feet and 12M collinear at 30 ft on 30 meters.  They are supported by trees.  The 12M collinear has about a 2:1 SWR on 30M after going through a quarter wave matching network and 150 ft of coax.  The collinear is located in the quietest part of the back  yard, about 70 ft from the nearest house.   I used the collinear this time but the half square has been used to work Afghanistan and Nepal with 200 watts.

After juggling caregiver obligations and a full time job I learned how to take an evening nap and get up in the wee hours of the night to work DX.
Operating in the early morning hours is much more productive than operating in the evening.  Then I go back to bed to get a couple more hours of sleep before heading into work.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE4YD on February 10, 2023, 06:00:53 AM
Hi Randy, that's what I should have said, heard you.
The only band I've been able to hear them on so far is 30 meters from about 05:00 to 07:00 is when they seem to have the best signal.
I don't need them on CW so I have been staying out of that fight. Would love to have some band fills, but with the way things are I'll sit on the sidelines.
73, Good luck to all who need them
David  KE4YD
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 10, 2023, 06:04:53 AM
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dy1zgj36/pirate-jpg.jpg)

It may not be good for DXCC, but it should be perfectly fine for WAP (Worked All Pirates) award.  ;D ;D ;D

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 10, 2023, 06:24:50 AM
I have accepted the fact that I probably won't work this one, and that's on me. I DID do a lot of work to my vertical to prepare for this...

Can you throw up a temporary 30M dipole pointed at them. ANYTHING, even up 20 feet. And take it down at midnight if you have to. I couldn't hear them at ALL on 30M my 100' long doublet up 40' (they were in a null on 30M); then I threw up a temporary dipole pointed right at em and got them easily the second day. Here in MD my window for good copy was about 5:00-6:30pm on 30M, then they were pretty weak.

Don't give up and you can't just do the same thing over and over and over... You have to change SOMETHING. Try something different; go to a park and throw up dipole if you have to. The a$$holes running 1 KW on 30M already have their QSO so regular LP guys still have a chance with a DECENT antenna. And most guys don't have yagis for 30M.

Paul

I too normally run a 100 foot doublet and it wasn't cutting it. I tossed up a 30m delta loop and even whipped up a 4:1 balun out of stuff i had laying around. Do whatever you can do to try something differnt to get them in the log! When i used to live in an apartment with an attic dipole I sometimes had to drive up to the top of a hill to setup a dipole to hear a dxpedition. Keep trying different things! Never give up!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0IZ on February 10, 2023, 06:48:37 AM
Maybe I missed it, but haven't seen anything about operating 20M, either CW or SSB.  Perhaps no suitable antenna?

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4JK on February 10, 2023, 07:02:24 AM
I have accepted the fact that I probably won't work this one, and that's on me. I DID do a lot of work to my vertical to prepare for this...

Can you throw up a temporary 30M dipole pointed at them. ANYTHING, even up 20 feet. And take it down at midnight if you have to. I couldn't hear them at ALL on 30M my 100' long doublet up 40' (they were in a null on 30M); then I threw up a temporary dipole pointed right at em and got them easily the second day. Here in MD my window for good copy was about 5:00-6:30pm on 30M, then they were pretty weak.

Don't give up and you can't just do the same thing over and over and over... You have to change SOMETHING. Try something different; go to a park and throw up dipole if you have to. The a$$holes running 1 KW on 30M already have their QSO so regular LP guys still have a chance with a DECENT antenna. And most guys don't have yagis for 30M.

Paul

I too normally run a 100 foot doublet and it wasn't cutting it. I tossed up a 30m delta loop and even whipped up a 4:1 balun out of stuff i had laying around. Do whatever you can do to try something differnt to get them in the log! When i used to live in an apartment with an attic dipole I sometimes had to drive up to the top of a hill to setup a dipole to hear a dxpedition. Keep trying different things! Never give up!

Thanks for the inspiration, I should be able to temporarily pull down a 160M doublet and get a 30M Delta loop up facing roughly the right direction. Have 1:1, 2:1 and 4:1 baluns available also.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 10, 2023, 07:46:43 AM
Maybe I missed it, but haven't seen anything about operating 20M, either CW or SSB.  Perhaps no suitable antenna?
They have the antennas, however, I assume they haven’t yet operated on 20M because the deliberate QRM would be worse there than it is on the other bands.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 10, 2023, 08:33:55 AM
If so, that is a very poor decision.  The DQRM could not be worse than what I am hearing mostly out of EU.  And the possibility of a stronger signal from them on 20M would make it way easier to copy plus the fact that many of us have some serious directional firepower on 20 that we do not have on 30 or 17.

I sure hope there is a different reason.  But lacking any other data.  Its possible.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KA4WJA on February 10, 2023, 09:38:39 AM
Thanks to everyone here,
1)  First off, I'm not a DX'er, never have been and probably never will be, and hence I will not be on-the-air looking for 3Y0J....but, I have always (since I started in this in the 1970's) believed that there is room for everyone in Amateur Radio....but, just so you all know, I have busted a pile-up before (when I worked W5LFL in Space Shuttle, back in 1983)....and have worked some contests (both run and s&p)....and ran one big VHF Expedition, to an island in Gulf of Mexico in a rare Grid Square (this was decades before IOTA and POTA)....but, again, I'm not a "DX'er"....so, am a bit ignorant of your world.  :)


2)  So, the reason I'm posting this here is to say thank you to everyone here for teaching me some new things...I love learning new things...especially about "radio"....since using HF maritime comms and being an SWL'er as a kid in the 1960's (and doing my first HF maritime install in 1973), majoring in Physics and spending over 40 years in Amateur Radio Service, I still love learning new things about radio!

Reading this thread this past week (yes, I have read all thru page 33....and then started this message) I had to learn what ATNO meant (I always thought it actually meant an All-Time-New-One, not just new for that band and that mode?).....and learned that having a second QSO with a rare one (as I did, only once, decades ago, with W5LFL in space) is called an "Insurance QSO", and is frowned upon (and, even though I haven't done it 40 years, I promise I will never do this again)   But, I'm still not sure if DQRM means DX-QRM?  (so, someone please clue me in here about this)

In regards to Amateur Radio, I thought I knew what a "pirate" was....an unlicensed station?  But, now in this context (DX'ing), it seems a "pirate" is not an unlicensed station, but an "imposter"....some other Radio Amateur that is using someone else's callsign (what we used to call a "bootlegger")...and, specifically in this situation ("bootlegging" a DX-pedition's callsign), doing so to cause their fellow Radio Amateurs to believe that they have worked the DX-pedition when they have not?  :(  Seriously?

Damn, you DX'er's have it rough....not being sarcastic here, I really mean this....I mean if I'm rag-chewing with friends on 80m SSB (or passing some traffic on 40m or 20m), the worst that happens is:

a)  someone comes on freq, over-driving their amp, etc. and trying to BS us that they're running barefoot.   (this is rare, but does happen....heck, one guy on 80m regularly does this, even has his mic gain up so high we can hear the cooling fan on his amp, blowing hard, all-the-while he says he's "barefoot"...hi hi)

b)  someone nestle's in a few (3- 10khz) khz away with either....an over-driven amp....or one of the "modern" rigs with a piss-poor ALC system pumping away (like any of the Yaesu's made in the past 20 - 30 some years)....splattering away...and, more recently BOTH an over-driven amp AND a rig with a great receiver but a really crappy transmitter!  {why is it that most hams these days only judge their radios' quality/performance by looking at half of it, the receiver....and simply forget/ignore the other half, the transmitter?  oh well, that's more of a rhetorical question here...}

But, at least everyone is using their own callsigns!   I mean, damn....you all DX'er's have "bootlegger's" (my word) / "pirates" (your word), falsely using a DX-pedition's callsign just to screw with their fellow hams?  That just blows my mind....I mean, I believe it....but, damn in 5 decades doing this, I think this might go on my "Top 5 List" of the most despicable aspect of our Amateur Radio Service (along with some of the shenanigans on the upper part of 75m, 7200khz, and on 20m, etc.)   :(  :(  :(

I just don't know how to express my sympathies (and disgust) enough.


3)  So, I'd like to politely offer some knowledge (of wind speeds, weather at sea and especially when approaching shore, landing a zodiac, etc....gasoline/petrol on-board for dinghies/tenders/zodiacs, etc...Iridium PTT service, etc...) to some of you that might be curious....not to worry, I won't ramble on, nor try to BS anyone....just sharing some info.  :)

I know one or two of you here are sailors (and perhaps pilots?), so fyi, I've been an offshore ocean sailor my whole life (starting as a kid in the 60's) with multiple ocean crossings on my own small sailboat (my first Atlantic crossing was > 40 years ago....decades before GPS, reliable radar, etc...used a sextant, compass, quartz watch back then....heck, I still have my late father's Tamaya, but I confess that I only use it for fun these days)....and I have sailed offshore on the high seas, thru, and been caught by, many full Gales (Force 8 ) and a few Severe Gales (Force 9) with winds of 40+ kts (~ 50mph), and one large Tropical Storm (Olga)....and, at anchor have also ridden-out direct hits from a few Cat 3 Hurricanes (with winds on-board of ~ 110kts / ~ 125mph) at anchor just 1 to 2 miles from the Atlantic, inside an inlet....(direct hits from Hurricanes Frances, Jeanne, and Wilma), plus glancing blows of others, etc.   But, none of my sailing was in the Southern Ocean....and, most of my offshore heavy weather experience has been in mid latitudes of 25* to 45* North (with TS Olga in Tropical N. Atlantic, below 20*)

I am not relating the above to somehow seem braggadocios....not at all....just trying to show you all, that while I don't know squat about DX'ing, I DO know about some other things being discussed here, like maritime weather, both offshore and when approaching land (both from formal education and real-world experience)...as well as have real-world experience with trying to "land" on beaches / rock shores with small boats/zodiacs (actually I prefer RIB's for this, but have done it with soft-bottom Zodiacs)...[assume they're using RIB's?]

a)  One thing that is an almost absolute....if you haven't personally experienced sustained winds over 40 - 45 kts (~ 50 - 55mph), almost everyone underestimates the force that those wind speeds exert....on windy days on land, I see many people walking to their cars, etc., commenting that the winds must be "over 30 miles per hour", when I just saw 15mph reported....it happens all the time.  :)   Some here might see weather forecasts of "42 kts" or "49kts", and not think that sounds too bad, I challenge you to walk straight up into a 40+kts breeze (it isn't easy....and most people will need to crouch-down and try to move like an NFL running back).

b)  As someone early-on in this thread mentioned, the winds in high southern latitudes aren't impeded by land...hence why the Southern Ocean is so respected as the worst place to sail....(btw, I have never been there....most of my sailing has been between 10* North and 45* North....north Atlantic, the Med, Caribbean, etc..).     Also, be aware that while a surface wind may be forecast to be say 42kts, the wind at 800' - 1000' high would likely be 60kts or so, and since a glacier is unlikely to cause much frictional degradation, I suspect that they'd likely have those wind speeds up there on the ice/rocks, with a bit of a respite using rocks as wind-breaks...

c)  And, while we in first-world countries (and especially those on-shore) are used to accurate weather forecasts (prepared by seasoned meteorologists)....those in far-remote locales, in remote / sparsely-traveled ocean areas, and those in third-world areas, etc. usually have only raw computer model data / forecasts (which can be somewhat "accurate" 24 - 48 hours out....but are generally still taken with caution).

d)  As for their elegant approach of getting men and materials ashore, floating in on a line with survival suits (and waterproof Pelican cases?), I love it!   It's textbook extreme weather tactic / ocean survival skills....and, thank goodness I've never needed to do that!  :)   For those that have never tried landing a small boat (RIB or soft-bottomed Zodiac) thru the surf, it ain't easy to do!   The times I've done it have been on a smooth beach, in warm water / tropical locales, with only a 2' - 4' swell running, which can make from some rather strong surf even if you don't get breaking waves, the surf/surge is rather powerful....and, with significant buoyancy (and windage) of inflatables (RIB's or soft-bottomed), getting the timing right is wicked-hard!  (and, the one time I did this on a rocky shore was nerve-racking....as you never know if those rocks that look smooth are sharp enough to puncture your Hypalon!)

{btw, I haven't looked closely at this Expedition's tenders/dinghies, but I assumed they are using RIB's and perhaps "Zodiac" brand RIB's?....the reason I mention this is....'cuz in my vernacular, I use the term "zodiac" to denote soft-bottom inflatable boats (even though the company Zodiac does also makes RIB's), and I use the term "RIB" to denote a hard-bottomed inflatable boat (Rigid-Inflatable-Boat)....but, I am assuming here they Expedition team is using RIB's?}

e)  Gasoline / Petrol, Honda 2000 genset, dinghy/zodiac fuel...

Storing gas/petrol on-board is done all the time, in tanks / jugs designed for this....and, on larger vessels there is usually dedicated ventilated and/or outdoor storage for it.

And, if I'm reading all of this thread correctly they had a larger Zodiac that is damaged?  As well as the smaller one that I saw in the video link posted here?  If this is all correct, I'd think they should have plenty of gas for a Honda 2000 genset (btw, I had one of those at home, but was stolen a few years ago.....and, yes, I loved it....always started on the first or second pull, and ran for many hours on just its internal ~ 1 gallon tank...)



4)   FYI, I am a BIG proponent of HF comms!  I use HF almost every day....(and, on-board my boat use it both for safety/distress comms on maritime bands and for other uses on the ham bands)!  I think everyone on the high-seas and in remote areas should have HF comms capabilities!   :) 

---- And, since the early 1980's I have made a living running a sat comm company (and, now, for the past ~ 30 years, mostly commercial sat comm).   And, back in the late 1990's I (along with one of my brothers) was a beta-tester for Iridium satellite....and, I have used / installed INMARSAT as well as Iridium....and, I still use Iridium occasionally, still have an Iridium 9555 sat phone....and it works very well (from middle of the ocean to middle of the Australian outback....I've used it in BOTH of those locales).

~~~~~  So, I have real-world experience, offshore and in remote locales, with both HF comms and Sat comms.....that might be helpful to some here?  ~~~~~

---- The Icom Satellite PTT radios are not "sat phones".....Icom (and a couple others?) developed these for Iridium / alongside Iridium to full-fill a very narrow niche market....yes, they work, but they're not really a mature system/kit, you can think of it as a long-range multi-hop linked-repeater system ---- sort-of... but, it's not really designed for extreme conditions / extreme situations....I just wanted to make sure that you all understood that, while they DO use the Iridium system, these are not "sat phones", and that a real Iridium sat phone is full-duplex (like all "phones") with very little latency, and actually more reliable, etc...

https://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/network/Satellite/sat100/default.aspx

https://www.icomamerica.com/en/products/network/Satellite/sat100m/default.aspx

https://www.icomamerica.com/en/downloads/DownloadDocument.aspx?Document=1081

https://www.icomamerica.com/en/downloads/DownloadDocument.aspx?Document=1024

And, heck, you should also realize that the signals are going from Steve, N2AJ in New York...up to a satellite orbiting at 1000's of miles per hour at an altitude of ~ 480 miles, and relayed/beamed from satellite-to-satellite-to-satellite-to-satellite-to-satellite-to-satellite-to-satellite, etc. and then down to the guys on Bouvet Island, and then back the same way....and, as one satellite moves out of coverage of either/both Steve and the guys on Bouvet, and of the other satellites in the constellation, their communnications switch to another satellite and another, etc....and is routed along until each end has connection.   Doing this in normal benign conditions is an elegant, engineering achievement!  Under storm conditions, in a tent (or kneeing outside?), etc. it's a testament to Iridium (and Icom) that it works at all!  :)

So, while some may wish to look down at the system, I just thought I'd pass on some minor details that show how (in my opinion) it is a rather sophisticated (and elegant) engineering accomplishment.  :)

 

Okay, there's probably more, but that's the highlights of what I wanted to say.  :)

Thanks and 73, to all,
John,  KA4WJA


P.S.  Now that I see another 9 pages....I'm going to try to read the rest of this thread.....but....but, if there is more bad behavior that I'd learn about (or shown here), I might decide to stay a bit ignorant.  hi hi
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 10, 2023, 09:54:16 AM
Another on Ignore...

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 10, 2023, 10:31:11 AM
So the whole are they legitimate or aren't they for the odd time streams continues, with more questions than answers. Communiqués from the island insist that they are transmitting on evens in genuine F/H mode, using the real, original-recipe WSJT-X software. Either that statement is incorrect, or else the power from the split streams is so low that no signals are making it to North America and all we're seeing is a pirate. In monitoring 30m FT8 last night and the night before, not a single print of 3Y0J was ever copied by my station on the even timeslot. Not one. I'm using an Elecraft K3s and a rotatable dipole at roughly 70' that admittedly is not ideal, but certainly good enough to have provided 322 confirmed on 30m.

Furthermore, the signal on the odd stream disappears when I rotate my dipole to Europe or due north-south. Southeast/northwest is the only heading where the odd stream prints, and there is not much land southeast of me. So it's either someone pirating in the pacific northwest, western Canada, or southern Africa, or else it's really them on odds. That's the best I can figure.

My understanding, which granted may be incomplete, is that there are only four programs that can send FT8 at the moment. WSJT-X, and WSJT-Z cannot operate F/H mode in the opposite time slots. JTDX can reply to either slot in Hound mode, but doesn't have a Fox mode for sending; MSHV can operate on either slot, but the team is adamant that that's not the software they're using. Is there another app behind Door Number Three that's missing from that small list? I guess until the first log upload nobody will know for certain.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0UA on February 10, 2023, 10:46:06 AM
I am amazed by the number of people that obviously not know how to operate FT8 and the meaning of Fox and Hound in particular.  I am sure many of them hate FT8 and are only on because they could not get them with "human modes".  Probably ex true blue DX'ers club members :). Not only are they operating on the wrong timeslot, which means they are NOT operating as a proper hound, I have seen several guys in Europe not only NOT operating as a hound, but actually calling on his exact frequency, covering him up.

 Are they doing this for malicious intent or they really that inexperienced or inept? The next thing I have noticed the amount of acrimonious hatred this entire expedition has fostered against themselves, and also as ham to ham with ourselves. The above is an example. Everyone is not only disappointed with the way things have turned out, but a lot of us are really pixxed off with everything.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 10, 2023, 10:51:45 AM
There have also been claims that an FT8 pirate is purposely operating out of sync and that every other Q is going to be NIL for 3Y0J.

But since everyone is SURE they worked the real one, please QRX on the other bands so that others can work them for all ATNO.

This whole thing is probably the most CF I have ever witnessed in 40 years of DXing.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 10, 2023, 10:54:08 AM
I have accepted the fact that I probably won't work this one, and that's on me. I DID do a lot of work to my vertical to prepare for this...

Can you throw up a temporary 30M dipole pointed at them. ANYTHING, even up 20 feet. And take it down at midnight if you have to. I couldn't hear them at ALL on 30M my 100' long doublet up 40' (they were in a null on 30M); then I threw up a temporary dipole pointed right at em and got them easily the second day. Here in MD my window for good copy was about 5:00-6:30pm on 30M, then they were pretty weak.

Don't give up and you can't just do the same thing over and over and over... You have to change SOMETHING. Try something different; go to a park and throw up dipole if you have to. The a$$holes running 1 KW on 30M already have their QSO so regular LP guys still have a chance with a DECENT antenna. And most guys don't have yagis for 30M.

Paul

I too normally run a 100 foot doublet and it wasn't cutting it. I tossed up a 30m delta loop and even whipped up a 4:1 balun out of stuff i had laying around. Do whatever you can do to try something differnt to get them in the log! When i used to live in an apartment with an attic dipole I sometimes had to drive up to the top of a hill to setup a dipole to hear a dxpedition. Keep trying different things! Never give up!

Thanks for the inspiration, I should be able to temporarily pull down a 160M doublet and get a 30M Delta loop up facing roughly the right direction. Have 1:1, 2:1 and 4:1 baluns available also.

What I did was just literally tie the legs of the 30M dipole onto an existing 20M dipole and make the electrical connection with alligator clips!! and then just let the 30 M dipole legs "sag" a bit to keep them away from the 20M dipole legs and taped the ends of 30M dipole legs to the rope!! Worked. Plan to take it all down once log update confirms a QSO.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 10, 2023, 10:55:06 AM
To add more fuel, I'm on 15m FT8 at the moment out of RHR Tacoma and they ARE on the correct time slot for F&H. Curiouser and Curiouser. No joy working them, but they are definitely VERY VERY LOUD and on evens as of 1850z Friday.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 10, 2023, 11:02:54 AM
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo

At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU  3Y0J  UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.

00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.

01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station

I'd try and work them again if that was my QSO.  I never heard your full call.

I hope you're in the log.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0UA on February 10, 2023, 11:04:21 AM
So the whole are they legitimate or aren't they for the odd time streams continues, with more questions than answers. Communiqués from the island insist that they are transmitting on evens in genuine F/H mode, using the real, original-recipe WSJT-X software. Either that statement is incorrect, or else the power from the split streams is so low that no signals are making it to North America and all we're seeing is a pirate. In monitoring 30m FT8 last night and the night before, not a single print of 3Y0J was ever copied by my station on the even timeslot. Not one. I'm using an Elecraft K3s and a rotatable dipole at roughly 70' that admittedly is not ideal, but certainly good enough to have provided 322 confirmed on 30m.

Furthermore, the signal on the odd stream disappears when I rotate my dipole to Europe or due north-south. Southeast/northwest is the only heading where the odd stream prints, and there is not much land southeast of me. So it's either someone pirating in the pacific northwest, western Canada, or southern Africa, or else it's really them on odds. That's the best I can figure.

My understanding, which granted may be incomplete, is that there are only four programs that can send FT8 at the moment. WSJT-X, and WSJT-Z cannot operate F/H mode in the opposite time slots. JTDX can reply to either slot in Hound mode, but doesn't have a Fox mode for sending; MSHV can operate on either slot, but the team is adamant that that's not the software they're using. Is there another app behind Door Number Three that's missing from that small list? I guess until the first log upload nobody will know for certain.

Good post, and my experience on 30 meters last night was EXACTLY like yours. only my 30 meter antenna is a vertical in a cedar tree, so I have no directionality.

Now today I actually worked them on 21.105 FT8 or I worked someone. They were on even, I was properly an odd fox and got thrown in the "discard pile" after he replied the first time, but he pulled me out and I got the RR73. So glory be, I actually worked them after days of trying on CW and FT8. I guess I worked them. How would anyone actually know?

(https://i.postimg.cc/W4rkYRFW/3y0j-15M.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 10, 2023, 11:09:54 AM
Agree.  Which is why its almost offensive to be asking the DX community to not work them again if "you are pretty sure you have a QSO".  WITH WHO?  And while it not the fault of the DXpedition that there are pirates and DQRM, we all know that if there were 2 stations on, 24/7 on 40 - 10 and they were using their pilots better (there are pilots right?), there would be a lot less confusion going on right now.

Accepting the modification and scale down for sure.  Hats off to them for getting on at all.  But not accepting the 1 radio at night and band selection and lack of the pilots adding any value.  For a $750,000 DXpedition, its just shameful.

Ed  N1UR

I read the "strange" way we're supposed to work them on FT8.  They have said they are using FT8 in F/H mode yet they are supposedly transmitting on odd. We need to manually change our transmit frequency? If true that is shameful, IMO.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 10, 2023, 11:15:38 AM
I'm listening on 21.105 right now near Seattle, and I hear a pretty loud 3Y0J CQing over and over on evens, with many callers on odds.  Don't see any Qs going through.  Either 3Y is deaf or this particular 3Y is just having some fun.

I'll say one thing for the "human modes": they give you more opportunity for exercising judgment.  Dubious FT8 practically requires forensic analysis.  On CW or Phone, at least you can judge operator skill, whether there are multiple signals present, ionospheric effects.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 10, 2023, 11:16:12 AM
Now today I actually worked them on 21.105 FT8 or I worked someone. They were on even, I was properly an odd fox
Thanks to a friend, I was told they were loud in the western US on 15, and I got them from RHR Tacoma beaming 250°, along the terminator. Got a +3, if I recall, but I didn't take a screen shot; I wanted to get off quick and stop the meter :D . They were definitely on evens and I was working F/H mode.

I was monitoring 21.105 on my home station in NJ and in three hours there wasn't a single print on either long or short path, and that's with four elements at 65' on a C31XR.


I'm listening on 21.105 right now near Seattle, and I hear a pretty loud 3Y0J CQing over and over on evens, with many callers on odds.  Don't see any Qs going through.  Either 3Y is deaf or this particular 3Y is just having some fun.
If you're on RHR Tacoma you came in right after me--I wanted to log back in and take a screenshot but someone else grabbed the slot!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 10, 2023, 11:20:40 AM
I'm listening on 21.105 right now near Seattle, and I hear a pretty loud 3Y0J CQing over and over on evens, with many callers on odds.  Don't see any Qs going through.  Either 3Y is deaf or this particular 3Y is just having some fun.
If you're on RHR Tacoma you came in right after me--I wanted to log back in and take a screenshot but someone else grabbed the slot!

Nope, but my QTH is just a few miles away.  I'm sure whoever is using that station is hearing the exact same thing, but better.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 10, 2023, 11:32:53 AM
I'm listening on 21.105 right now near Seattle, and I hear a pretty loud 3Y0J CQing over and over on evens, with many callers on odds.  Don't see any Qs going through.  Either 3Y is deaf or this particular 3Y is just having some fun.
If you're on RHR Tacoma you came in right after me--I wanted to log back in and take a screenshot but someone else grabbed the slot!

Nope, but my QTH is just a few miles away.  I'm sure whoever is using that station is hearing the exact same thing, but better.

You are a -2 here in MA.  I'm beaming LP so beam is close to you.  No copy on SP or LP.

Good luck.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 10, 2023, 11:34:39 AM
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo

At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU  3Y0J  UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.

00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.

01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station

I'd try and work them again if that was my QSO.  I never heard your full call.

I hope you're in the log.


"I'd try and work them again if that was my QSO.  I never heard your full call.

I hope you're in the log."

To me it sounds like they got it but who knows? At this point - might even be a pirate - nobody knows for sure. I think I've gotten spoiled with near real time log uploads.

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0UA on February 10, 2023, 11:40:32 AM
Quote
To me it sounds like they got it but who knows? At this point - might even be a pirate - nobody knows for sure. I think I've gotten spoiled with near real time log uploads.

Ain't that the truth !
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 10, 2023, 11:41:36 AM
You are a -2 here in MA.  I'm beaming LP so beam is close to you.  No copy on SP or LP.

Thanks for the report.  I told myself I wasn't going to call them anymore but with all the uncertainty and possible pirates... Honestly, at this point, I can't blame anyone for doing whatever.

Also, based on recent experience, I don't think a daily log upload is "spoiled."  It's practically mission critical.  I'm afraid there are gonna be a lot of sad people when the log does eventually get posted.  I hope I'm not one of them.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 10, 2023, 11:45:39 AM
Clip of my QSO with 3Y0J - TOTAL Runtime 1 minute 38 seconds - Notes below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvpfXzBBxmo

At 00:00
QRM and then "B9LUR" comes up clearly followed by "TU  3Y0J  UP" but I did not hear him send the first letter of my call "W" - and I did not give him a signal report. There are a gazillion stations calling, a miracle how they can pick out any of us.

00:17
I begin sending my call again so as to make sure he has it correct and then I'll give a signal report - but - he does not respond right away and there is some on frequency QRM when he does come back to me - but I am having trouble being certain that he has my call correct.

01:18
He sends what sounds like my full correct call so I send "599 TU" and he replies with "TU" and goes on to work the next station

I'd try and work them again if that was my QSO.  I never heard your full call.

I hope you're in the log.


"I'd try and work them again if that was my QSO.  I never heard your full call.

I hope you're in the log."

To me it sounds like they got it but who knows? At this point - might even be a pirate - nobody knows for sure. I think I've gotten spoiled with near real time log uploads.

Randy / WB9LUR

We all have been spoiled by many advances.  This is how DX was worked when I was a new ham back in the Eighties.  No real time logs, no nothing.  You worked them and found out if the Q was good when you sent your QSL.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 10, 2023, 11:52:33 AM
Nope, but my QTH is just a few miles away.  I'm sure whoever is using that station is hearing the exact same thing, but better.
They were +8 to me and I was +2 on their end. Can't complain about that.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 10, 2023, 12:23:34 PM
So did a physical fight actually break out on the Island?
I can imagine the stress is high but this would be a whole new level of crazy.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 10, 2023, 12:29:25 PM
So did a physical fight actually break out on the Island?
I can imagine the stress is high but this would be a whole new level of crazy.
What on EARTH would possess you to post something like that?!?! Seriously. Whisky Tango Actual Foxtrot?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 10, 2023, 12:30:23 PM
What??

So did a physical fight actually break out on the Island?
I can imagine the stress is high but this would be a whole new level of crazy.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 10, 2023, 12:41:58 PM
What??

Sounds crazy to me but that is what I am hearing from other Hams.
Just wanted to know if it was true or false.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 10, 2023, 12:55:31 PM
So did a physical fight actually break out on the Island?
I can imagine the stress is high but this would be a whole new level of crazy.

Those in the know, know. Those that don't, don't.

Perhaps best to let them work it out - nothing can be done around this forum anyway.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 10, 2023, 01:00:16 PM
Best get to 20 Meters and make your text messages...

Remember that little tip I told you a couple days ago?  Nobody caught on, as usual.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5MOA on February 10, 2023, 01:24:06 PM
To add more fuel, I'm on 15m FT8 at the moment out of RHR Tacoma and they ARE on the correct time slot for F&H. Curiouser and Curiouser. No joy working them, but they are definitely VERY VERY LOUD and on evens as of 1850z Friday.

Hope it was them, got a "RR73" at 1705z from someone signing 3Y0J.

Maybe the logs will go up this weekend and clear the air.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 10, 2023, 01:28:23 PM
So did a physical fight actually break out on the Island?
I can imagine the stress is high but this would be a whole new level of crazy.

Perhaps best to let them work it out - nothing can be done around this forum anyway.

NØUN
Yes it's kind of weirdly surprising that no one on here had heard a thing, even when it's gone from inner circle to outer.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 10, 2023, 01:33:01 PM
So did a physical fight actually break out on the Island?
I can imagine the stress is high but this would be a whole new level of crazy.
Yes it's kind of weird surprising that no one on here had heard a thing, even when it's gone from inner circle to out there.

Perhaps best to let them work it out - nothing can be done around this forum anyway.

NØUN

I'd imagine that would stay on the island if it actually occurred.  This is proving to be one crazy trip!  What is next?  Two teams brawling?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 10, 2023, 01:35:49 PM
To add more fuel, I'm on 15m FT8 at the moment out of RHR Tacoma and they ARE on the correct time slot for F&H. Curiouser and Curiouser. No joy working them, but they are definitely VERY VERY LOUD and on evens as of 1850z Friday.

Hope it was them, got a "RR73" at 1705z from someone signing 3Y0J.

Maybe the logs will go up this weekend and clear the air.

If they suddenly are on even what does that mean for all the QSOs made with them transmitting on odd? Did they switch or was it a pirate?  They were pretty clear they'd be F/H which means even.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 10, 2023, 01:36:03 PM
Maybe the logs will go up this weekend and clear the air.

The boat has been docked near the beach for the last 24 hours according to Garmin.  So I am kind of surprised that the Logs have not been uploaded.
A drone carrying a backup USB stick would make it a 5 minute job.

The problem with waiting until this weekend is that a lot of people are going to find they got duped and go into a mad scramble with only 2-3 days left.

A Slim got everyone excited this morning on 20M at around 06:00Z.  He worked a lot of guys, I was seeing his signal and then someone posted it was a Slim and everything died out instantly.  I feel sorry for those 100 or so people who went to bed happy and don't even realize.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AF5CC on February 10, 2023, 01:37:22 PM
What is next?  Two teams brawling?

Maybe the Rebels will show up for their DXpedtition to Bouvet at the same time.  I do remember when there were 2 different DXpeditions to Heard Is. at the same time.  I didn't work either.

73 John AF5CC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 10, 2023, 01:40:56 PM
Surely at 150m they could hotspot from one laptop to another ??

It's open water between them
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 10, 2023, 01:55:13 PM
What??
Sounds crazy to me but that is what I am hearing from other Hams.
Just wanted to know if it was true or false.

What is the point of even suggesting such a story, especially on a public forum? We as DXers want to be able to go back to places like Bouvet. Stories of that nature are not how you win over recalcitrant bureaucrats in charge of landing permits! Unless they ran out of food and went full Donner Party on someone, I suggest that the best policy is "what happens on Bouvet stays on Bouvet."
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W5HVV on February 10, 2023, 01:56:44 PM
This just popped up on Twitter and may explain the FT8 time slot issue:

https://twitter.com/je2ehp/status/1623869952821440514 (https://twitter.com/je2ehp/status/1623869952821440514)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 10, 2023, 02:00:31 PM
What??
Sounds crazy to me but that is what I am hearing from other Hams.
Just wanted to know if it was true or false.

What is the point of even suggesting such a story, especially on a public forum? We as DXers want to be able to go back to places like Bouvet. Stories of that nature are not how you win over recalcitrant bureaucrats in charge of landing permits! Unless they ran out of food and went full Donner Party on someone, I suggest that the best policy is "what happens on Bouvet stays on Bouvet."

Why blame somebody for making a post?  If true, members of the team let the story get off the island. Blame the team. It's a legitmate post if this is circling wide and far.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 10, 2023, 02:05:25 PM
This just popped up on Twitter and may explain the FT8 time slot issue:

https://twitter.com/je2ehp/status/1623869952821440514 (https://twitter.com/je2ehp/status/1623869952821440514)

So the OP doesn't know he's transmitting on odd.  That's a new one.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 10, 2023, 02:23:12 PM
So the OP doesn't know he's transmitting on odd.  That's a new one.
Nonsense. They have been told.
But, through a back channel, I was assured that the 17 m FT8 Odd FT8 yesterday evening was actually them.
I think everyone has decided to ignore the advice not to work them again. Unfortunately, they have brought extra unnecessary garbage upon themselves there on Gilligans Island. Where is the Professor when we need him?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: IW0HQE on February 10, 2023, 02:23:44 PM
Hello !

I was trying to work them fox/hound on 15m this afternoon, my receive was good but I was locked on the wrong time period.  :o

Anyone has a suggestion to solve this please ?  :'(
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 10, 2023, 02:36:01 PM
Very weird postings that the 4 Norwegian hams on the island did a small number of Qs with their own personal callsigns.  And apparently, this was discussed earlier on that they might do a few Qs with these callsigns at the end of the Dxpedition.

This may be driving the "fight" rumors that a bunch of callsigns are apperaing.

It may also signal this thing is coming to an end this weekend.  We will wait and see.

Have you ever seen such drama and weird stuff going on as the Dxpedition?  I haven't.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 10, 2023, 02:36:38 PM
I think everyone has decided to ignore the advice not to work them again

From what I have heard and seen, there seem to be two sorts of DXers: those who openly are working insurance slots, and those who are quietly doing it.  Maybe a very few resolute souls are standing by and I admire their self-restraint.  I think the piggies can reasonably plead force majeure.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 10, 2023, 02:40:17 PM


Have you ever seen such drama and weird stuff going on as the Dxpedition?  I haven't.

Ed  N1UR

 most of the “weird stuff” is what is being posted in this thread.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 10, 2023, 02:49:41 PM
Why blame somebody for making a post?  If true, members of the team let the story get off the island. Blame the team. It's a legitmate post if this is circling wide and far.
Posting a story like that is the exact opposite of Ham Spirit and adds nothing to the story of the 2023 3Y0J DXpedition. As one who believes in praising publicly and chastising privately, seeing this posted (even if it were to be true) really has no place on a public forum. Just my personal opinion, of course, YMMV, void where prohibited by law, and objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 10, 2023, 03:08:50 PM
I just worked 3Y0J, real or not, on 14.025, up 2.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 10, 2023, 03:12:53 PM
I just worked 3Y0J, real or not, on 14.025, up 2.

Marvin VE3VEE
I heard him work you I believe. Weak but readable here but went QRT after a few minutes.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 10, 2023, 03:29:22 PM
Yes, he didn't spend more than 10 minutes there. That's one of the reasons I suspect he was a pirate. Also, we don't really know if they indeed have a 20m antenna.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 10, 2023, 03:34:49 PM
So the OP doesn't know he's transmitting on odd.  That's a new one.

This is getting funny. N2AJ, the East Coast Pilot and Sat Phone operator was sending on odd last night..   

065945  15  0.2 1644 ~  3Y0J N2AJ FN30

That must have been before he saw what was happening and wrote this later...

(https://i.postimg.cc/L4gptNrn/fheven.jpg)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 10, 2023, 03:38:19 PM
Quote
From what I have heard and seen, there seem to be two sorts of DXers: those who openly are working insurance slots, and those who are quietly doing it.

Sage observation!

There have been, to my knowledge, only three activations of any size since 1990, which was the largest (the other two were around 2006 and had about 5K QSOs as I recall).

So, for a lot of us, it is 32 years between activations and for a lot more, it's the first time they ever heard it.

Given the horrible jamming and the evident reality that they were too constrained to upload any logs, they are asking a lot to tell people not to do "insurance".

Again, a lot of this, they backed into thanks to circumstances that turned out not to be what they planned.  I am exceedingly grateful they found a way to get on the air at all.

But, they should hardly expect people to be entirely selfless in the end.

If the expedition plays by 1990 rules (and it pretty much is), it can expect 1990s behavior.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 10, 2023, 03:53:09 PM
This is the first night of no activity on 30M.  Right after the LA guys all did personal call Qs.

Not looking good guys.  This clambake may be over.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 10, 2023, 04:11:30 PM
Hello !

I was trying to work them fox/hound on 15m this afternoon, my receive was good but I was locked on the wrong time period.  :o

Anyone has a suggestion to solve this please ?  :'(

You can try doing the steps N7QT suggests.

N7QT posted this on the WWDXC reflector, in case it might be of interest:

Quote
All,

It appears that 3Y0J absolutely requires that we all be in F/H mode in order to get into their log.

Problem is they are TXing on the ODD cycle which WSJT-X F/H doesn’t support (i.e., they are obviously not using WSJT-X). Therefore if you are using WSJT-X here is what you need to do:

#1) In the Settings menu under the General tab, make sure “Allow Tx frequency changes while transmitting is checked. 
#2) Stay in standard mode (i.e, NOT F/H mode)
#3) If you are decoding 3Y0J and they are TXing on the ODD cycle, then set your TX to transmit on the EVEN cycle.
#4) If you are reliably RXing them, start calling them well above 1000Hz.
#5) If you get called, you will need to immediately move your TX frequency to ANY FREQ BELOW 1000Hz, and then send your R-XX signal report. If they send you the RR73, no need to send 73. If you don’t get your RR73 after 4 tries, start over.

Tonight I was seeing individuals working 3Y0J in standard mode (i.e, not moving their TX frequency down) and receiving a RR73 from 3Y0J.  These individuals are likely under the impression that they will be in the log. I am hearing that if  the F/H procedure is not followed, it is most likely they will not be in the log. This is why the pilots are all telling us we must be in F/H mode in order to get into the log.
GL & 73,

-rob N7QT

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 10, 2023, 04:29:37 PM
Why blame somebody for making a post?  If true, members of the team let the story get off the island. Blame the team. It's a legitmate post if this is circling wide and far.
Posting a story like that is the exact opposite of Ham Spirit and adds nothing to the story of the 2023 3Y0J DXpedition. As one who believes in praising publicly and chastising privately, seeing this posted (even if it were to be true) really has no place on a public forum. Just my personal opinion, of course, YMMV, void where prohibited by law, and objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear.

Are you kidding me, do you think eHam is some sort of New York Times for DX information?  This thing is all over the place now and who really cares if some argument broke out between grown men.  Ham Radio is not a religion, people argue and all sorts of crap happens.  Do you remember how this Dxpedition started and the controversy over the non disclosure agreements.  It was aired out very publicly on here.  Nobody cared, it's how life works, people disagree and move on to the next topic.
BTW they have been off the air for at least 2-3 hours now so I think that it confirms that something went down.   With 8 operators and only 2 radios they would never need to come off the air.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 10, 2023, 04:36:52 PM
Yes, he didn't spend more than 10 minutes there. That's one of the reasons I suspect he was a pirate. Also, we don't really know if they indeed have a 20m antenna.

Marvin VE3VEE
For the life of me I cannot figure out why they are not working 20m!
I see people constantly spotting them on 20m and it's always deception or a Slim.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 10, 2023, 04:50:06 PM
Here is what 3Y0J (or a pirate) sounded like at my QTH on 20m CW. Not very strong, but the "3Y0J" came through clear as day: https://youtu.be/4uTPaCJkWjs
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 10, 2023, 05:01:47 PM
Why blame somebody for making a post?  If true, members of the team let the story get off the island. Blame the team. It's a legitmate post if this is circling wide and far.
Posting a story like that is the exact opposite of Ham Spirit and adds nothing to the story of the 2023 3Y0J DXpedition. As one who believes in praising publicly and chastising privately, seeing this posted (even if it were to be true) really has no place on a public forum. Just my personal opinion, of course, YMMV, void where prohibited by law, and objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear.

Ham Spirit?  You must be living in a kinder, gentler world than most.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 10, 2023, 05:05:45 PM
Here is what 3Y0J (or a pirate) sounded like at my QTH on 20m CW. Not very strong, but the "3Y0J" came through clear as day: https://youtu.be/4uTPaCJkWjs

He sends his call twice.  The first time sounds like 3C0J, but it's debatable.  Could just be QSB.  Second time is clearly 3Y0J.

Unfortunately, not so cartoonishly incompetent that it can be dismissed out of hand.  I'd be worried but also hopeful if I had worked it.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1CX on February 10, 2023, 05:17:03 PM
Here is what 3Y0J (or a pirate) sounded like at my QTH on 20m CW. Not very strong, but the "3Y0J" came through clear as day: https://youtu.be/4uTPaCJkWjs

I put my vote in the real bucket. Sounded legit.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 10, 2023, 05:21:29 PM
Yes, he didn't spend more than 10 minutes there. That's one of the reasons I suspect he was a pirate. Also, we don't really know if they indeed have a 20m antenna.

Marvin VE3VEE
For the life of me I cannot figure out why they are not working 20m!
I see people constantly spotting them on 20m and it's always deception or a Slim.

Nobody ever caught on to the tip I gave.

When you saw a NP4G spot (without the -@ so no spoofed callsign, he was logged in), you do understand that was Team Member Otis on the ship (with Internet) trying to help everybody out, right?

If Otis spotted 3Y0J on 18.120, or 14.105, 3Y0J was there, guaranteed.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AA6YQ on February 10, 2023, 05:29:08 PM
For the life of me I cannot figure out why they are not working 20m!.

Because of the difficult conditions the team has encountered, they appear to be intentionally reducing the number of callers until they can get more equipment and more operators from Marama to the island through the rough seas and high winds. Operating on 30m instead of 20m, and operating on 17m FT8 above the US frequency allocation for digital modes are both consistent with that strategy.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 10, 2023, 05:33:55 PM
 I feel terrible for the team members who dropped their hard earned $25,000 to go DXing from Bouvet but have yet to even step off the boat. It's gotta be very, very frustrating. (understatement of the year)   
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 10, 2023, 05:42:19 PM
Here is what 3Y0J (or a pirate) sounded like at my QTH on 20m CW. Not very strong, but the "3Y0J" came through clear as day: https://youtu.be/4uTPaCJkWjs

I put my vote in the real bucket. Sounded legit.

For what it is worth I vote for legit.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 10, 2023, 05:58:58 PM
I feel terrible for the team members who dropped their hard earned $25,000 to go DXing from Bouvet but have yet to even step off the boat. It's gotta be very, very frustrating. (understatement of the year)

Sounds like the astronaut who circled the moon while the other two got the thrill (and fame) by walking on it. Or the football player who gave it all he had in practice and the coach kept him on the bench.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 10, 2023, 06:14:18 PM
I feel terrible for the team members who dropped their hard earned $25,000 to go DXing from Bouvet but have yet to even step off the boat. It's gotta be very, very frustrating. (understatement of the year)
Man I feel it for them.
Barfing for 12 days on the way.
Then just standing there looking at the Island.
I know Ken is trying but I think he really underestimated the problems involved with using that beach for landing the equipment.

BTW we are now at about 5 hours of radio silence.  I hope they sort out the issues and get back on the air soon.  No one Wins when contacts are not being made.


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 10, 2023, 06:19:01 PM

Nobody ever caught on to the tip I gave.

When you saw a NP4G spot (without the -@ so no spoofed callsign, he was logged in), you do understand that was Team Member Otis on the ship (with Internet) trying to help everybody out, right?

If Otis spotted 3Y0J on 18.120, or 14.105, 3Y0J was there, guaranteed.

NØUN

Thank you Wayne that is a really big help.  I did follow your other Advice but on the East Coast the prop last for minutes and then fades.  Unfortunately it usually happens just as the JA's are in fifth gear.  On SP they are audible for longer but just bloody impossible to work.


73s
Rob
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 10, 2023, 06:48:09 PM
20m is the one band every one has an antenna for thats why they are reducing the number of callers does a tune work marvin for 17m to get then in the log.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on February 10, 2023, 07:34:03 PM
How much gas for the Honda generator is ashore?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 10, 2023, 07:41:15 PM
How much gas for the Honda generator is ashore?

I wonder if operating with FT8 uses a meaningfully larger amount of fuel.  And if they were running the rigs at the full 100 watts on FT8.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 10, 2023, 07:58:12 PM
Sunrise 30 minutes ago (0330Z), and wind gusts greater than 40 MPH projected ALL DAY, I hope they are safe, secure and healthy.

From watching videos, I can't imagine there will be any travel back & forth to the Marama today...

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 10, 2023, 08:29:06 PM
Sunrise 30 minutes ago (0330Z), and wind gusts greater than 40 MPH projected ALL DAY, I hope they are safe, secure and healthy.

From watching videos, I can't imagine there will be any travel back & forth to the Marama today...

NØUN

They got balls.

I saw your offer to sponsor a log upload - satellite  fees - conditional only on their ability to (airtime plan/ hardware) to actually do so. Pretty sweet thing to even think of.

For a bad ass biker. Ha!

Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 10, 2023, 09:35:50 PM
KO8SCA's Garmin is still tracking them at their camp.

There's an obvious radio/information blackout going on - no updates & the rumor mill is cranked up. Hope we hear something, anything really.

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/adrian-tracker.png)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 10, 2023, 09:48:16 PM
KO8SCA's Garmin is still tracking them at their camp.

There's an obvious radio/information blackout going on - no updates & the rumor mill is cranked up. Hope we hear something, anything really.

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/adrian-tracker.png)

NØUN

Whatever is going on, I just hope everyone is safe.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 10, 2023, 09:50:20 PM
KO8SCA's Garmin is still tracking them at their camp.

There's an obvious radio/information blackout going on - no updates & the rumor mill is cranked up. Hope we hear something, anything really.

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/adrian-tracker.png)

NØUN

Interesting, KO8SCA's tracker has moved to the shoreline in the last 30 minutes.  It's on the move.  I have no idea if that's a good thing, or not.

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/adrian-tracker-2.png)

https://share.garmin.com/3y0j (https://share.garmin.com/3y0j)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 10, 2023, 10:04:20 PM
So much for all the 30 m activity. I never heard them at all. I have a Good Station for 30 m. My path must be blocked by high absorption on that frequency and lower.
Can you imagine what a pressure cooker these blokes are in? Eight of them in a tent for a week. It's not as if they can sit outside in the sunshine and suck a durrie for a bit of time out, or go wandering over the glacier for some fresh air. They have been sitting there with the crushing disappointment of being prevented from implementing their plans for a Great DXpedition, copping criticism from all quarters, and worrying about their safety and well-being. Then, even after their exit from the Island, they have 2-3 weeks stuck in the boat together, feeling bad about not meeting expectations.
I for one, would like to extend my best wishes to them all and thank them for trying. It's not over yet.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 10, 2023, 10:37:16 PM
Any updates? Not about radio ops - just news about the team onshore. Seems kinda long time not to hear anything.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 10, 2023, 11:04:03 PM
Update on DX-World
The Garmin tracker is on the beach. Likely team members awaiting a transfer to the Marama. Stand by for an update soon.
https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-island/?fbclid=IwAR3NFWlC9uRFZn_SpOtQMp9jQbvreeWVdz0qIJx0h4jhydzqqpGTUbzmAdI
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 10, 2023, 11:24:19 PM
They are back on the air as of 0713z on 20m FT8 and 30m CW... both are confirmed to be legit. No copy on 20m FT8 and 30m CW is all but closed here sadly.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 10, 2023, 11:36:43 PM
They are back on the air as of 0713z on 20m FT8 and 30m CW... both are confirmed to be legit. No copy on 20m FT8 and 30m CW is all but closed here sadly.


Good update. Sounds like all onshore are well if they are doing radio.


Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4UFO on February 10, 2023, 11:42:49 PM
https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-island/ (https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-bouvet-island/)

[FEBRUARY 11 @ 0710Z]

[FLASH NEWS] We got word from Otis, NP4G on the Marama. 3Y0J operations continue. He says whenever they finally decide to go QRT, they will need to wait for a weather window before they can come back to the yacht. They are not QRT at the moment and again active on 30 CW with Ken LA7GIA operating.

They are currently on 10.120 CW and 14.105 FT8 transmitting on ODD... So callers need to transmit on EVEN and imitate F/H mode (call above 1000 Hz, then when the call you, move to below 1000 Hz). GL to all!  73

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 10, 2023, 11:52:23 PM
Watching the RBN - looks like they are being heard quite well in parts of Europe right now on 30M.


Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 11, 2023, 12:02:40 AM
Finally on 20 but CQ WW RTTY going on, RTTY all over 14.105 and above. I am lost for words..
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 11, 2023, 12:11:43 AM
I'm hoping yet for 20 m CW.
FT8 ops are just incomprehensible.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 11, 2023, 12:58:39 AM

Nobody ever caught on to the tip I gave.

When you saw a NP4G spot (without the -@ so no spoofed callsign, he was logged in), you do understand that was Team Member Otis on the ship (with Internet) trying to help everybody out, right?

If Otis spotted 3Y0J on 18.120, or 14.105, 3Y0J was there, guaranteed.

NØUN

Wayne, now I understand exactly what you meant! Thanks!!!

NP4G     14105.0     3Y0J     07:20 11 Feb     F/H alway TX even     Bouvet

I made my QSO with 3Y0J one hour later (a half an hour ago). This 14.105 activity this morning did sound legit.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 11, 2023, 01:02:20 AM

Wayne, now I understand exactly what you meant! Thanks!!!

NP4G     14105.0     3Y0J     07:20 11 Feb     F/H alway TX even     Bouvet

I made my QSO with 3Y0J one hour later (a half an hour ago). This 14.105 activity this morning did sound legit.

Marvin VE3VEE
Unfortunately, this FT8 garbage is making it far harder than necessary to make a QSO. He is quite strong here, but because of the phase distortion from the polar path, it is only occasionally decoding.
085715   5  0.8  288 ~  JF3BHV RR73; JH3CUL <3Y0J> +02
CW now should be a cinch.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 11, 2023, 01:15:27 AM
Now there's a 3Y0J on evens 14105 kHz.
I thought this FT8 was supposed to make it *easier*?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 11, 2023, 01:18:32 AM
20m is the one band every one has an antenna for thats why they are reducing the number of callers does a tune work marvin for 17m to get then in the log.

Steve, thanks, that's a very good idea, but the tuner in my little Kenwood TS-480 will not tune my 20m Yagi on 17m and I could only get about 5 Watts to my antenna on that band and that would not work with 3Y0J's huge pileup! However, it did work a few years back with 4B4B (Revillagigedo) because there was no pileup because people could not hear him.  ;D ;D ;D

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 11, 2023, 02:32:16 AM
It is kinda scary they are using the term QRT in ANY context (given that we don’t know what is going on) and still no log update!! I must check 10X per day.

I am not “100% sure” of my contact; I am 99% sure but would appreciate like the opportunity to work them “again” if necessary before they QRT for real.

Have they ever “officially” said why it is a much smaller operation than anticipated?

Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 11, 2023, 02:35:36 AM
So there is a Media officer and pilots - silence.  The only word is from NP4G on the boat.  Wow!

He's kind of telling you without telling you.  Seas are getting better.  Hint hint.  And we can't get things on or off the island without the right conditions. 

Sounds to me like they are running out of gas (and soon food) on the island and may have shut down ops to save what they have left.  But now that the boat is in sight and conditions look to be improving, they are operating as they align for something.  Whether that something is getting off or resupply remains a mystery.

The fact there is complete silence for so long, repeatedly, from the official sources is really unacceptable for a $750,000 Expedition in my opinion.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 11, 2023, 02:45:12 AM
Well, Hams have never been known to be good at communicating.

Sorry, that was just too easy. I couldn’t resist 😁
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 11, 2023, 04:01:28 AM
This was just posted a few moments ago from one of the pilots on their Facebook page:

Quote
3Y0J Bouvet Island Frequency Announcement
11 FEB 2023 11:45 UTC
All good. Generator fixed. Easier to do when it is light. QRV now.
FT8 14.105 MHz
CW 10.120 MHz

The data in the update must have been from earlier, when Mason saw them go back on the air. The message was posted by Steve N2AJ several minutes ago. Sounds like generator issues last night. That'll do it. Glad they got it running and they are back on the air.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 11, 2023, 04:01:38 AM
There is still 3 or 4 guys on the boat that have never set foot on the island, surely they will resupply and do a crew swap and give those guys a few days on the radio and pull the plug next weekend, that will give them time (almost 14 days) to get to SA for the boats next sailing,
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 11, 2023, 04:14:03 AM
I am not “100% sure” of my contact; I am 99% sure but would appreciate like the opportunity to work them “again” if necessary before they QRT for real.

I'm in the same boat. I'm 99% sure I'm good - heard my call clearly twice.. it "sounded right" for where they are.. but with all the pirates out there... there's that 1% of uncertainty. Well, that's how it was done in the old days I suppose - make a QSO and hope it was good!  ::)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 11, 2023, 04:20:15 AM
Seriously - we have to monitoring pilots' personal facebook pages to get word of what's going on?

Serious slap in the face constantly of the supposed Media guy.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 11, 2023, 04:23:22 AM
Seriously - we have to monitoring pilots' personal facebook pages to get word of what's going on?

Serious slap in the face constantly of the supposed Media guy.

Ed  N1UR

It was posted in the official 3y0j facebook group page by Steve, N2AJ

Just reading some of the other updates from over night. Looks like the news I saw was pretty old despite being posted a few mins ago (my bad!).. yeah, they're back up. Well, hopefully is there is some things picked up as indicated on some of the other news that will include log data for an update!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 11, 2023, 05:00:14 AM
Steve is now posting frequency updates.  2nd post in hour.  Seriously, how hard would that have been for the past week.  Anyway, glad it is finally happening.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 11, 2023, 05:33:53 AM
"they appear to be intentionally reducing the number of callers until they can get more equipment and more operators from Marama to the island through the rough seas and high winds. Operating on 30m instead of 20m, and operating on 17m FT8 above the US frequency allocation for digital modes are both consistent with that strategy."

Ah, the old "if we operate where nobody can hear us, the pileups will be more manageable" strategy!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 11, 2023, 05:52:53 AM
Worked on 21020 - up 2 1351Z

Way easier when you get pilot guidance.  DQRM is significantly less as well.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2LO on February 11, 2023, 06:03:57 AM
  Every so often we see 17 meter digital operation where the DX is close to the top of the US digital limit of 18110 and W/K stations calling up are spilling over onto 112, etc. as has happened recently. On 30 meters, DX stations are sometimes on 10144 or so listening up but there's little "up" left above 144.

 There is a simple answer.

 Digital DX stations in these small WARC bands should park themselves close to the top and listen DOWN.

 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 11, 2023, 06:05:21 AM
Sounds like the astronaut who circled the moon while the other two got the thrill (and fame) by walking on it.

Because if offered a chance to be the command module pilot for one of the greatest feats of all mankind or watch it from the ground, which would you choose? 

If you don't know the history, all three got fame.  All three were recognized for their contributions to the flight.  All three were picked by NASA because they were experts in their fields of study, the ability to work with each other, and the trust that they each provided.  Armstrong and Aldrin have always said that they were glad that Collins was with them. 

Collins' hand calculations of the trajectories of each orbit as well as the RTE were within 0.1 degree of what the ground computers had calculated (based on where they actually were and where they needed to point the CM back to earth). 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W0BKR on February 11, 2023, 06:14:57 AM
If one were needing this for a new one, good luck.  either move to the east coast or something as no signals here and only FT8 it seems.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W9AC on February 11, 2023, 06:26:33 AM
If one were needing this for a new one, good luck.  either move to the east coast or something as no signals here and only FT8 it seems.

East coast propagation hasn't been very good, at least here in FL.  It was a struggle to make a 30m CW QSO with a full-size 3 el. Yagi at 115 ft.

Paul, W9AC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6AB on February 11, 2023, 06:27:44 AM
Sounds like the astronaut who circled the moon while the other two got the thrill (and fame) by walking on it.

Because if offered a chance to be the command module pilot for one of the greatest feats of all mankind or watch it from the ground, which would you choose? 

If you don't know the history, all three got fame.  All three were recognized for their contributions to the flight.  All three were picked by NASA because they were experts in their fields of study, the ability to work with each other, and the trust that they each provided.  Armstrong and Aldrin have always said that they were glad that Collins was with them. 

Collins' hand calculations of the trajectories of each orbit as well as the RTE were within 0.1 degree of what the ground computers had calculated (based on where they actually were and where they needed to point the CM back to earth).

Luckily someone pointed out that going to the moon in a zodiac would be too difficult... ;)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2IW on February 11, 2023, 07:12:49 AM
If one were needing this for a new one, good luck.  either move to the east coast or something as no signals here and only FT8 it seems.

I'm in Maryland, but haven't heard them once on my Hexbeam!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 11, 2023, 07:17:09 AM
If you have had a CW or FT8 QSO with 3Y0J, even if you are 100% certain it was a good exchange, there is no way to know if you actually worked the real deal or a pirate.

I know how we "used" to deal with this question in the pre-ClubLog days - an insurance QSO.

Heard one slim that was so obvious, I SWL logged it as a pirate. 20 over on 40M CW. He worked a bunch of stations. Gonna be a long wait for those QSL's!

Have never seen anything quite this intense - almost like somebody is waging a personal vendetta against this activation.


Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W0BKR on February 11, 2023, 07:19:40 AM
Have not heard a peep from them any band.  Know some friends from EC that worked them 5-9 signal, but nothing like that here.  Wish they were one 4 bands/modes instead of one here or there, and cut out the FT8, and do more CW.  But then again, not my dog show.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 11, 2023, 07:27:07 AM
Sunday weather window closed. Now looking at Monday or Tues for re-supply and operator change.

Maybe some log info will get over to the boat?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 11, 2023, 07:33:12 AM
Looks like more of the same all weekend.  If they would just keep updating the QRG on FB page from Steve, that would help immensely.

Don't forget that they run out of food Mon or Tues, so something is going to happen by then.

Good luck to all.  Looking for an SSB Q if I get the opportunity.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD0PO on February 11, 2023, 07:35:00 AM
My observation of this operation.

Facebook is very helpfull! They post what freq and more they are on so you don’t waste time chasing pirates.

For FT8, download JTDX. Use F/H mode. It works!

10mhz short path and 18mhz light my path seem to work the best from Oklahoma. The new ther bands just don’t work.

On CW he seems to like 6-7 up and stays there for many many Qs.

On FT8, he works areas. A bunch of JA then NA.

These are just my observations.

Ray
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD0PO on February 11, 2023, 07:45:39 AM
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update

3Y0J Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA says,
“The Team is OK and healthy. Conditions here are very difficult. Maintaining safety is a priority. We will continue to operate with the current equipment as long as possible. The weather conditions continue to be difficult. It is expected to improve between Monday and Tuesday. It looks like Sunday’s good weather window has unfortunately disappeared. The team remains on the air despite these challenges. At this time we are evaluating resupply and a change of operators. Please continue to monitor our 3Y0J Facebook group. You can help by reporting propagation to our pilots. We ask that if you have already worked Bouvet please do not work them on additional modes and bands. This will allow others to get the ATNO they need.”

You can also see our Frequency Announcements on the 3Y0J Bouvet Island Group Facebook page.

73,
Steve N2AJ
Media Officer & NA East Coast Pilot
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4OGW on February 11, 2023, 08:07:20 AM
Interesting to watch the huge pileup on 21 cw suddenly vanish...X-class flare :)

Tor N4OGW
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 11, 2023, 08:11:59 AM
Because if offered a chance to be the command module pilot for one of the greatest feats of all mankind or watch it from the ground, which would you choose?
 
I would choose to go, but would rather walk on the moon than be the command pilot. But I'm not downplaying the bravery, necessity, nor expertise of any of them.

If you don't know the history, all three got fame.  All three were recognized for their contributions to the flight.  All three were picked by NASA because they were experts in their fields of study, the ability to work with each other, and the trust that they each provided.  Armstrong and Aldrin have always said that they were glad that Collins was with them. 

What I know about the history is not from the books, I lived it. I was in my mid 20s when it happened, and remember it well. Remember when Walter Cronkite,  KB2GSD (https://www.arrl.org/news/walter-cronkite-kb2gsd-sk), was lost for words when they landed. Remember the astronaut's names, and the essential roles they each played to make this event happen.



Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 11, 2023, 08:30:26 AM
Adrian just worked himself  ;D

162630 -14 -0.1  278 ~ KO8SCA 3Y0J RR73
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5PS on February 11, 2023, 08:37:41 AM
Got them(?) this morning on 17m FT8 via a very nice long path opening.

GL to everyone else still chasing them.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 11, 2023, 09:49:20 AM
Adrian just worked himself  ;D

162630 -14 -0.1  278 ~ KO8SCA 3Y0J RR73


I saw that as well and took a pic of the WSJT-X screen.   


Gino
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 11, 2023, 10:44:56 AM

Have never seen anything quite this intense - almost like somebody is waging a personal vendetta against this activation.


Randy, yes, somehow the amount of DQRM doesn't surprise me too much, but the number of pirates is insane. It is difficult to know if you have worked a pirate or the real deal. Even if they announce 3Y0J's frequency, a pirate may be at or near that frequency as well.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: G0HVQ on February 11, 2023, 10:47:58 AM
They must have floated across their PA, currently +11dB on 17m FT8 at our propagation peak in G just after sunset...if it's the real one of course (seems to be, picking out LA home calls).
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W0BKR on February 11, 2023, 11:03:06 AM
Major flare happened, large chunk of sun broke off....does not help either with thier QRPp signal(s)....perhaps one qso yet, not looking good though...
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NX7U on February 11, 2023, 11:17:05 AM
Watching FT8 for 3Y0J (ooh they just decoded for the first time!) and seeing HV0A call them.  Interesting watching the hunted become the hunter.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 11, 2023, 11:21:12 AM
Glad to see the SSN and SFI have risen significantly as of late. Hopefully, that will help their signal strength, and by extension my chances of getting in the log. I have not been anywhere without my laptop (since I am remoting into my home station from college) over the past few days because I would kick myself if I missed my chance  ;D

I am looking forward to seeing the documentary they are filming for the DXpedition. It will be very interesting to see exactly what the team has gone through to pull off this activation.
 
73
Mason - KM4SII
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: G0HVQ on February 11, 2023, 11:41:32 AM
I don't know about NA propagation, but from here in G  there has been a very defined propagation window: just after our sunset 1800-1930z for 17/15m. Waste of time being active any other time, signals have really peaked up during this time, even a decent signal on 15m SSB which I never would have expected with 100W & wires (it seemed to be the real one, but WFWL).
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 11, 2023, 12:16:15 PM
Seen you get a report on 17m FT8 this even Darrell but didn't see RR's

Took me over 3hrs of solid calling to work them, ( if it is them)

Currently still -7 here

Trevor
EI2GLB
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 11, 2023, 12:37:33 PM
@W2IRT they sent you 3 x reports were you not in hound mode??
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: IW0HQE on February 11, 2023, 12:47:44 PM
3Y7THA is now transmitting on 10,120.050 CW
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 11, 2023, 02:47:21 PM
3Y0J is 579 into MA on 10.1201 right now.  I'm pretty sure I worked him but it was only my second call and I wasn't expecting a call so fast.  I should've sent my call again.  Oh, well, first time I even heard them ( if it's real) so now I wait for a log, or use FT8.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4JK on February 11, 2023, 02:59:43 PM
3Y0J is 579 into MA on 10.1201 right now.  I'm pretty sure I worked him but it was only my second call and I wasn't expecting a call so fast.  I should've sent my call again.  Oh, well, first time I even heard them ( if it's real) so now I wait for a log, or use FT8.
The DXPedition Facebook page says this is 3Y7THA.

I have no idea why the different call.... This is the first time they are workable here too but I can't verify the call due to all the jammers and lids.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 11, 2023, 03:01:28 PM
Good signal on 30m CW here, but with insane DQRM. It looks like they just went QRT unfortunately. Still on the hunt.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 11, 2023, 03:04:00 PM
3Y0J is 579 into MA on 10.1201 right now.  I'm pretty sure I worked him but it was only my second call and I wasn't expecting a call so fast.  I should've sent my call again.  Oh, well, first time I even heard them ( if it's real) so now I wait for a log, or use FT8.
The DXPedition Facebook page says this is 3Y7THA.

I have no idea why the different call.... This is the first time they are workable here too but I can't verify the call due to all the jammers and lids.

I read the FB post also. So I know what it says but the ID was loud and clear and it was 3Y0J.  It's a real mess.  Like somebody on FB wrote, I wish they had added bands instead of different call signs.

I thought FT8WW would be the hard one and this one not so hard.  Boy, was I ever wrong!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4JK on February 11, 2023, 03:04:40 PM
And he's gone.... I thought I had him once because I was right on the QSX from the last QSO and heard K4?? K4?? But some A-Hole dropped a +20 DB carrier on freq for 40 seconds.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 11, 2023, 03:07:18 PM
They are back now but the QRM is still the likes of which I have never heard... even during this DXpedition  :o
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 11, 2023, 03:08:33 PM
Good signal on 30m CW here, but with insane DQRM. It looks like they just went QRT unfortunately. Still on the hunt.

Insane is the correct word!  I think he is still in there, however the DQRM is too prevalent and strong.

Good luck, Mason.  Many are pulling for you.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 11, 2023, 03:12:16 PM
@W2IRT they sent you 3 x reports were you not in hound mode??
I had called them a bunch of times but they were no longer decoding. I went off to enjoy my victory cigar for a bit. When I got back I saw them call two other stations, threw in my call and they came back to me. Got my RR73, and have not decoded them once since then. Was it real??
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 11, 2023, 03:12:38 PM
They are back now but the QRM is still the likes of which I have never heard... even during this DXpedition  :o

W2IRT wrote about "Ham Spirit".  Listen to the zoo on 30 cw and tell me again about Ham Spirit.  If there ever was any it has gone extinct.

Chris  NU1O
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 11, 2023, 03:17:06 PM
Didn't see your RR73 and I hope it was real, heading was spot on and they came up and faded away as per what we would normally see, but you never can tell.

I
@W2IRT they sent you 3 x reports were you not in hound mode??
I had called them a bunch of times but they were no longer decoding. I went off to enjoy my victory cigar for a bit. When I got back I saw them call two other stations, threw in my call and they came back to me. Got my RR73, and have not decoded them once since then. Was it real??
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 11, 2023, 03:25:09 PM
W2IRT wrote about "Ham Spirit".  Listen to the zoo on 30 cw and tell me again about Ham Spirit.  If there ever was any it has gone extinct.

Chris  NU1O

DXing is supposed to be fun. Guessing this is mostly Type II Fun for everyone involved.  Except for the miscreants, of course. 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 11, 2023, 03:41:43 PM
They are back now but the QRM is still the likes of which I have never heard... even during this DXpedition  :o
W2IRT wrote about "Ham Spirit".  Listen to the zoo on 30 cw and tell me again about Ham Spirit.  If there ever was any it has gone extinct.

I disagree. The DQRMers obviously don't possess it, but how many of those are on at any given time? A small handful at most, even though they are very disruptive, they are still vastly outnumbered by guys just trying to find the magic ticket and their spot in the log. A big pileup isn't bad Ham Spirit, it's the very definition of it from a DXing point of view. Some are better operators than others, some have few if any actual clues, but Ham Spirit is about being a decent and respectful operator who follows the regulations and doesn't go out of their way to make others miserable or bring ham radio into a bad light. It's fine to disagree with Regulation X or Policy Y or Group W (especially around Thanksgiving), but bad Ham Spirit is to demean those you disagree with publicly and vociferously.

Didn't see your RR73 and I hope it was real, heading was spot on and they came up and faded away as per what we would normally see, but you never can tell.
If they sent me an RR73 message around 19 or 20z then I was away and wouldn't have seen it. The one I got was around 2145z, and I saw both messages (one on each frequency slot).
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 11, 2023, 03:58:37 PM
They went QRT for a while but are now back on 30m CW. Unfortunately, as the grey line peak has now passed, their signal is fading into the noise.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 11, 2023, 04:11:04 PM
It was the earlier time I seen them call you, I QSY'd after 21z



If they sent me an RR73 message around 19 or 20z then I was away and wouldn't have seen it. The one I got was around 2145z, and I saw both messages (one on each frequency slot).
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 11, 2023, 04:22:26 PM
"they appear to be intentionally reducing the number of callers until they can get more equipment and more operators from Marama to the island through the rough seas and high winds. Operating on 30m instead of 20m, and operating on 17m FT8 above the US frequency allocation for digital modes are both consistent with that strategy."

Ah, the old "if we operate where nobody can hear us, the pileups will be more manageable" strategy!
Yes, well operating on 30 m has excluded me from that pileup. There is no propagation path on that band here. Cannot hear them. It seems that Everybody Else is hearing them, or at least calling them on 30 m.
I know there is a path on 20 m, as two QSO with the Marama when they were nearing the island were made quite easily.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 11, 2023, 04:23:26 PM
They are back now but the QRM is still the likes of which I have never heard... even during this DXpedition  :o
W2IRT wrote about "Ham Spirit".  Listen to the zoo on 30 cw and tell me again about Ham Spirit.  If there ever was any it has gone extinct.

I disagree. The DQRMers obviously don't possess it, but how many of those are on at any given time?

There were enough to make it impossible for Mason and KJ4K to not be able to copy him. That's just those who write in this forum. How many were blocked who don't post in this forum? Many, many more. From when I originally posted they were on 30m (about 2 hours ago) the jammers and frequency cops basically wiped their signal out.  It's many more than a handful.  I'm reading posts on FB by those who have given up on CW due to the DQRMers. You are underestimating this problem.  This was the worst I've heard it --ever.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 11, 2023, 04:41:25 PM
The message went out again that if you have worked them, not to work them again.
The fact remains, that nobody who has worked them knows they have worked 3Y0J.
If they turn up on 20 m CW, I will call them!
On FT8 operations, I have an anecdote to share. On our Norfolk Island DXpedition last year, our FT8 operator told us how a US Ham emailed him to ask why his calls on 10 m FT8 weren't being answered. He was, after all, using 1.5 kW and a 5 el yagi at 100' (or similar such, you get it). Our FT8 operator replied that he had the threshold set in WSJTx, and any signals above (I think +3 dB) were not seen. He suggested the chap call him with much lower power and he'd be worked.
Now, that leads me to my observations on the FT8 pileups I'm seeing for 3Y0J. They are supposedly operating more FT8 to allow "the smaller stations" a chance to work them. Is that working? The pileups are a full on war, of huge signals, most of which are not decoding (in my station anyway). How are the little guys going to be seen through that?
In addition, what I've been seeing here is a station signing "3Y0J" flipping between even and odd, with much stronger signals (or the one I'm seeing) than I should expect from Bouvet.
I will probably submit OQRS as soon as I see I'm in Their log (whenever they get that uploaded), and turn off the station here. This is no longer fun.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 11, 2023, 04:52:15 PM
Wow this is insane.  I was dealing with DQRM on 30M CW for a good hour and then I waited for a clearing and sent out two calls and the idiot started to key down again.  when he stopped keying all I heard was the last 3 letters of my call sign and decided to just send 5nn and call it a day.  This is absolutely no fun!
Whenever a Dxpedition is this weak it's like a field days for the crows, they just pick them to death.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 11, 2023, 04:53:28 PM
threshold set in WSJTx, and any signals above (I think +3 dB) were not seen. He suggested the chap call him with much lower power and he'd be worked.
Now, that leads me to my observations on the FT8 pileups I'm seeing for 3Y0J. They are supposedly operating more FT8 to allow "the smaller stations" a chance to work them. Is that working? The pileups are a full onThe message went out again that if you have worked them, not to work them again.
The fact remains, that nobody who has worked them knows they have worked 3Y0J.
If they turn up on 20 m CW, I will call them!
On FT8 operations, I have an anecdote to share. On our Norfolk Island DXpedition last year, our FT8 operator told us how a US Ham emailed him to ask why his calls on 10 m FT8 weren't being answered. He was, after all, using 1.5 kW and a 5 el yagi at 100' (or similar such, you get it). Our FT8 operator replied that he had the war, of huge signals, most of which are not decoding (in my station anyway). How are the little guys going to be seen through that?
In addition, what I've been seeing here is a station signing "3Y0J" flipping between even and odd, with much stronger signals (or the one I'm seeing) than I should expect from Bouvet.
I will probably submit OQRS as soon as I see I'm in Their log (whenever they get that uploaded), and turn off the station here. This is no longer fun.

The weaker stations will not get through.  Until a log goes online none of us know if our QSOs are good.  If this was a less rarer station maybe one and done would work, but this rock might not be activated again in many of our lifetimes so who will obey the one and done request?

You must have had your fill of ham spirit if this is no longer fun.   ;D  I wouldn't call this fun, either.  It's just plain frustrating.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 11, 2023, 04:59:35 PM
There was a mention of a generator failure last night. Does anyone know approximate time of the failure?

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 11, 2023, 05:01:57 PM
You must have had your fill of ham spirit if this is no longer fun.   ;D  I wouldn't call this fun, either.  It's just plain frustrating.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Yes, it's a nice cooler day here today. I'm going to go ride my horse.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 11, 2023, 05:15:10 PM
The message went out again that if you have worked them, not to work them again.
The fact remains, that nobody who has worked them knows they have worked 3Y0J.
If they turn up on 20 m CW, I will call them!

It's hard to work them once when there are zero log updates and just sit by the sidelines.. not knowing if you worked a pirate, or the real station.. or if your qso was good. Yeah, I know 20+ years ago you'd work a station and wouldn't know if your qso was good til they got back and you sent for a qsl card.. but these days many / most dxpeditions have the capability to do a daily log upload. I know there are several here on this forum who have worked them on multiple bands and modes. I'm doing my best to resist making an insurance qso - especially when there are many of you who have yet to hear them and work them and are trying hard. The scenario I'd hate to have happen is to assume your QSO was good... the team decides to wrap up instead... and the log upload happens when they're all back on the boat - with your QSO not there. Ample times you could have re-worked them.. but you did as they asked. I've resisted working them again - but with all the pirates and no log uploads it's not easy.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 11, 2023, 05:27:46 PM
Yeah, I know 20+ years ago
I can assure everyone it is not "20 years ago" today!
Work em all you like on 30 m. You won't be preventing me from doing so. Haven't heard them once on 30 m.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1NK on February 11, 2023, 05:34:19 PM
I am slowly coming to accept that I may not work this one.  I spent the last week trying to dig them out on 30 but my low 30M dipole just hasn't cut it.  I've managed to hear them on 17 on my hexbeam but the QSB made copy near ESP. 

I thought I'd have a shot, heck, I logged Heard, Macquarie, and Crozet and those aren't exactly chip shots from W1.... and 2 of the 3 were running LP.  DQRM, pirates, and to an extent where they set up, not to mention being away all weekend for continuing education haven't helped.... I don't know..... (but I'm not throwing in the towel!)

Frank, W1NK
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W0BKR on February 11, 2023, 05:35:26 PM
Have not heard a peep once.  Oh well...
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 11, 2023, 05:57:46 PM
I am slowly coming to accept that I may not work this one.  I spent the last week trying to dig them out on 30 but my low 30M dipole just hasn't cut it.  I've managed to hear them on 17 on my hexbeam but the QSB made copy near ESP. 

I thought I'd have a shot, heck, I logged Heard, Macquarie, and Crozet and those aren't exactly chip shots from W1.... and 2 of the 3 were running LP.  DQRM, pirates, and to an extent where they set up, not to mention being away all weekend for continuing education haven't helped.... I don't know..... (but I'm not throwing in the towel!)

Frank, W1NK

Good luck, neighbor. Today was the first time I copied them.  Had a good signal on 30 after sunset.  Their signal dropped from 579 to a 449 in about 20 minutes so it was a small window.  I'm not even factoring in the jammers and cops.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 11, 2023, 06:20:38 PM
The message went out again that if you have worked them, not to work them again.
It's hard to work them once when there are zero log updates and just sit by the sidelines.. not knowing if you worked a pirate, or the real station.. or if your qso was good. Yeah, I know 20+ years ago you'd work a station and wouldn't know if your qso was good til they got back and you sent for a qsl card.. but these days many / most dxpeditions have the capability to do a daily log upload. I know there are several here on this forum who have worked them on multiple bands and modes. I'm doing my best to resist making an insurance qso - especially when there are many of you who have yet to hear them and work them and are trying hard. The scenario I'd hate to have happen is to assume your QSO was good... the team decides to wrap up instead... and the log upload happens when they're all back on the boat - with your QSO not there. Ample times you could have re-worked them.. but you did as they asked. I've resisted working them again - but with all the pirates and no log uploads it's not easy.
This is extremely reminiscent of the way the Microlite Penguins operated from the rare ones in the Southern Ocean back a bunch of years back. They only had vertical antennas, low power, no Internet and no online logs. When I was still living in Queens I never heard them once from South Georgia and South Sandwich on my 30' high multi-band dipole. But after I moved out to NJ and got my Yagis in the air, I was able to work them fairly easily on Kermadec (ZL8R) in 2006 and again from South Orkney (VP8ORK) in 2011.

The signals were very weak but the operators were absolutely first rate; great ears for phone, and fast/efficient—and patient—on CW. I appreciated what they did, but quite honestly I prefer at least having regular log updates to prevent unnecessary duping, and on-island LoTW is even better. When George and Tomi were activating Chesterfield Reef for 30 days they uploaded to LoTW every day, and I recall getting my 160m confirmation within two hours of making the contact. That right there spoiled me for DXpeditions if you want to know the truth, and Heard Island honed it even further with the DX-A system (Kure and others, too, but that's the one that sticks in my mind).

The only one that comes even close to this is Scarborough Reef in 2007. Ultra-rare, I think it was #3 at the time after P5 and Yemen, with no daily log updates and pileups that put 3Y0J to shame. What was worse is that most of the ops didn't understand that east coast NA had maybe a 90 minute window on days with propagation (it was right between cycles 23 and 24, and prop was crap). Even my station didn't hear them for the first four days! So when the band opened and I was in the piles, you're darned tootin' that I was making an insurance contact, and I certainly did so on both CW and SSB.  But as you say, imagine finding out after the fact that my first QSO was with a pirate and I held off on making another QSO? I doubt BS7 will ever get activated again so in that sense it was worth it.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 11, 2023, 07:02:07 PM
Quote
I appreciated what they did,

I think it is significant that this sort of operation died out.

The Martti Lane style seems much preferred and more of them have actually happened.

I remember a long ago DXCC annual (when they came out on paper, still) where both groups discussed what they were up to.  It was an interesting and frank discussion.  But, it is clear now which argument has won the day with DXpeditioners. . .and DXers.

I don't think the Microlite approach saved the DXpeditioners much money, either, or would not these days, which might have been a strong point for the approach otherwise.  A little less gear, perhaps, but the price of the boat is a lot of the budget on this kind of thing.

What we're seeing now is the Microlite scheme forced by circumstances beyond the expeditioner's control.  And, we're seeing the frustration that results.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 11, 2023, 07:17:22 PM

It's hard to work them once when there are zero log updates and just sit by the sidelines.. not knowing if you worked a pirate, or the real station.. or if your qso was good.

Tell me about it. I “worked” them ln day 3; but today I even tried to make an insurance QSO on 30. After 10 minutes I quit trying; I felt so guilty doing exactly what they asked us not to do.

To not have log updates is crazy; they would probably double the number of uniques. It’s been like a week; what is the problem?! One would think a plan to regularly update logs online would be as important as planning the station(s) since it would reduce duplicate contacts.

Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W6OU on February 11, 2023, 07:27:32 PM
I was listening to 3Y0J on 14.068 around 0300 UTC and it appears he was not using F/H.  I read somewhere they would always be using F/H and non-F/H FT8 QSOs would not be logged.  3Y0J answered some stations who initially transmitted below 1000 Hz.  Most of the stations worked who initially transmitted above 1000 Hz sent their report on their original frequency above 1000 Hz.  In both cases 3Y0J sent RR73.  This appears to be non-F/H and the RR73 implies it was logged.   
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 11, 2023, 07:47:23 PM
im surprised the couldn't send some packet or wifi back to the boat but i suppose that would involve some planning im pretty sure i have one qso and 2 suspect ones so im relaxing if after a log upload i have none i will be back in the mix
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 11, 2023, 08:03:18 PM
im surprised the couldn't send some packet or wifi back to the boat but i suppose that would involve some planning im pretty sure i have one qso and 2 suspect ones so im relaxing if after a log upload i have none i will be back in the mix

Of course, it's hard to make suggestions if we aren't there and know the reasons they could or couldn't try something (weather, 50 mph winds, etc) - but..

I work in IT. Putting my IT hat on... with a good point to point network coordinated with some HT's.. you could have had a coordinated "upload" from the camp to the boat. They'd use the HT's to coordinate the aiming and start/stop of the upload. Have a guy at the camp stand outside with a directional wifi antenna / ptp bridge aimed at the boat - a guy on the boat with a directional wifi antenna / ptp bridge aimed at the camp.. then transfer the data. How big would the data file be? I can't see it taking more than a few moments to upload? Even if they had to stop radio operations for 5 mins for the transfer you could at least get the date uploaded. Of course, they don't have this gear on them - but hypothetically it would probably work. A wireless PTP bridge can travel pretty far.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 11, 2023, 08:20:25 PM
There was a mention of a generator failure last night. Does anyone know approximate time of the failure?

Marvin VE3VEE

They've been off the air a few hours tonight - I wonder if they are having more generator problems?

On a positive note - listening to the Steve's latest call with Ken (posted 1/2 hour ago on the fb group page) they are trying to / may try to bring more radio and antennas over. They will be re-supplying food, etc.. but may try to get more equipment to set more up and if possible extend their stay as long as they can. It sounds pretty primitive there - no chairs.. radios on buckets.. sitting on the floor.. but they are doing the best they can.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VSM on February 11, 2023, 08:24:45 PM
...and they currently only have one tent at camp, so sleeping and cooking and operating are all taking place in that single tent.  Kudos to the team for working the world under such challenging conditions.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 11, 2023, 08:27:25 PM
I think it is significant that this sort of operation died out. The Martti Lane style seems much preferred and more of them have actually happened.
Martti had the right of it. Be loud. Run the pileup, don't let the pileup run you. Publish a plan and stick to it, and then have a backup plan, because you know the first battle plan will never survive first contact with the enemy. Two is one, one is none, etc.

I remember a long ago DXCC annual (when they came out on paper, still) where both groups discussed what they were up to.  It was an interesting and frank discussion.  But, it is clear now which argument has won the day with DXpeditioners. . .and DXers.
is kind of thing.

What we're seeing now is the Microlite scheme forced by circumstances beyond the expeditioner's control.  And, we're seeing the frustration that results.

Micro-Lites drove one thing home to me, though. Operator skill is the most important thing to bring to a DXpedition—on either side of the pileup. I honed my DX-chasing skills with a sub-optimal station, and chasing operations like the Micro-Lites. I learned what worked and what didn't, how to sneak my way into a QSO if I could, and all those other fun things. In 2003, two years after getting into HF, I learned that if I want to work DX I have to use the mode the DX wants me to use. Then it was CW, today it's FT8. I was a die-hard SSB-only guy, and if I'd just started CW earlier I'd have had four more entities in that mode and gotten on the CW Honor Roll four years earlier. And if I'd learned how to do RTTY pre-2003 I'd be on the RTTY Honor Roll already, and might have gotten P5 on that mode.

Micro-Lite style operations to rare entities also confirms the point that station building and station maintenance really matters. Antennas matter most, amps matter, good radios matter, and software and radio interface matters. There haven't been any major DXpeditions in roughly seven years, and what little DX we've all worked in the intervening years we've worked with our stations that we may have let deteriorate a bit. Many ops got complacent using stations that are/were "good enough" to get in the logs for the group that visits different African countries every year, contest DXpeditions to the Caribbean, and resident hams in a handful interesting locations. Massive pileups were been forgotten, operating skills were allowed to deteriorate (guilty as charged; my CW skills went to hell during the last few years), and ops have chosen to ignore FT8 until it became evident that that mode was taking over DXing.

Let Bouvet be a wakeup call for everybody to be ready for whatever comes next. Get better antennas if you can, get an amp if you can afford it, even a small one if you're barefoot now, and practice, practice, and practice some more with software and rig integration. Know your software inside and out, and be ready for when the next FT8 variant hits the airwaves.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W6OU on February 11, 2023, 08:29:05 PM
I was listening to 3Y0J on 14.068 around 0300 UTC and it appears he was not using F/H.  I read somewhere they would always be using F/H and non-F/H FT8 QSOs would not be logged.  3Y0J answered some stations who initially transmitted below 1000 Hz.  Most of the stations worked who initially transmitted above 1000 Hz sent their report on their original frequency above 1000 Hz.  In both cases 3Y0J sent RR73.  This appears to be non-F/H and the RR73 implies it was logged.

My mistake.  I was listening to FT8WW and not 3Y0J.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 11, 2023, 09:30:30 PM
I got lucky and found a pile up on 30 meters with some open space Thursday at 2319z just a little after my sunset, and worked them on CW. At least I hope it was them and they got my call correctly. Very weak signal at the time on an OCF dipole at 30 feet. As others have said they have really good ears. I will try to work them on another band or mode for an insurance QSO until I see if I am in log. Challenge points don't interest me that much so once confirmed I won't try for another QSO unless they are begging.

30 meters is the only band I have heard them on from 2230z to 2330z and at 0500z to 0730z. Don't hear them tonight so it is back to bed. GL to all!

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 11, 2023, 10:33:44 PM
If I am being honest I have gone from being disappointed by 3Y0J to now feeling really sorry for them.  There are many aspects of the planning that can be criticized but at least we know they are trying to make something happen with the little that they have got.

What I find very disturbing is the unprecedented level of hatred being expressed on the cluster.  I am kind of use to seeing one or two bad comments directed at at a team each day, but in this case it's gone completely off the rails. 

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: G0HVQ on February 11, 2023, 11:31:20 PM
Seen you get a report on 17m FT8 this even Darrell but didn't see RR's

Hi Trevor, I eventually got the RR73 after several retries: several stations didn't understand F/H and were calling them on their TX freq, so when worked stations QSY'd they weren't being copied. I saw several lost QSOs this way including some Gs and a GW.

Someone asked if they are even using F/H: well not in the traditional sense, because I saw someone call them on their freq and get a reply. F/H requires callers to be +1000. So this was adding to the chaos, as others must have seen this and called them.

Hope you got them Trevor. If not, try calling really high: I had XIT in for the call and was calling +3000Hz, some Gs got picked up as high as +3300Hz.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 12, 2023, 12:01:17 AM
Well done Darrell I got them as well, one of the guys in CDXC was analyzing the pile and he said under 2000 was the place to be and that's where I got them, not sure if you are on the CDXC Skype chat group but it's handy for tips and tricks
73
Trevor
EI2GLB

Seen you get a report on 17m FT8 this even Darrell but didn't see RR's

Hi Trevor, I eventually got the RR73 after several retries: several stations didn't understand F/H and were calling them on their TX freq, so when worked stations QSY'd they weren't being copied. I saw several lost QSOs this way including some Gs and a GW.

Someone asked if they are even using F/H: well not in the traditional sense, because I saw someone call them on their freq and get a reply. F/H requires callers to be +1000. So this was adding to the chaos, as others must have seen this and called them.

Hope you got them Trevor. If not, try calling really high: I had XIT in for the call and was calling +3000Hz, some Gs got picked up as high as +3300Hz.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 12, 2023, 01:30:16 AM
finally got my 17m ft8 qso just now very happy worked @ 100 3 elements and got a +05 its grey line here a nice path similar for my 17m cw qso time.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 12, 2023, 02:21:22 AM
For the first time, earlier this evening, what appeared to be The Real 3Y0J operating Proper FT8 F/H appeared on 17 m. He was actually easy to work, compared with the complete War Zone of the past week every time a rumour of "3Y0J" appeared.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4JK on February 12, 2023, 03:23:33 AM
I'm glad to hear that they are attempting a resupply, I guess they feel like there is a good weather window. Hopefully they'll get some more rigs and maybe even an amp on the island.

W2IRT, I think your comparison to being a fledgling DXer and the Microlite guys is apt. When I started chasing DX, I remember stalking the bands and doing cluster research so I could snag those "semi-rare to me" entities that had a few resident ops who operated at certain times. I shot past 100, 150 really quickly doing that. Back then, I had a barefoot station in a townhouse: Dipoles in the attic and a tuned vertical for 20m in the "back yard." Lots of fun.

Then, the penguins came on the air for one of their trips (Orkney maybe) and I really struggled. Didn't work them because I couldn't really hear them... But, I was doing what I could with what I had (my townhouse station.)

Now I live in a RF quiet area and have a 80/40/30 vertical I've put a lot of effort into. It's a great antenna, for what it is. Yes I heard 3Y last night on 30m finally, but for only 45 mins and the DQRM was awful... Couldn't make it happen. BUT, now that I live on a plot of land on a rural area, I don't really have an excuse anymore.

Confession Time:

I have a 51 foot crank-up tower laying in my driveway. For years. I haven't gotten it up because life has gotten in the way. I travel often for work. I had a house fire last year... I was struck by lightning. (Yes really.) We had a few deaths in the family recently that kind of threw us off-kilter. Things have been nuts lately. But I'm glad to be alive.

I knew Bouvet was coming up. (Again.) But I didn't make the time to do what I needed to do. (Clear some trees and get a hole dug). I could have if I had focused.

So I have a Tri-Ex WT-51 laying in my driveway, pointing in a very unhelpful direction.

I have 200' of 7/8 Heliax in my garage, leaning up against the wall. Collecting spiderwebs.

Sure would be nice to have a LPDA up, or something of that nature that would let me work WARC bands. The path from here to 3Y0 is probably 75% water. A directional antenna would keep a lot of the DQRM off to the side or back.

DQRM sucks. LIDS Suck. Weather sucks. Rough seas suck. But it's on me.

GL to all still chasing.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N4UFO on February 12, 2023, 04:17:02 AM
So I have a Tri-Ex WT-51 laying in my driveway, pointing in a very unhelpful direction.

Oh, that made me laugh!  :D  What an interesting way to put it. - I can relate somewhat to your situation... moving, new house, not much up... have lots of projects started, but because of 'grief issues' I lack much motivation. Again, my own fault. Here's hoping me and my wires can manage a QSO!  73 & GL!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W9AC on February 12, 2023, 05:21:39 AM
Very good CW long-path signal into FL this morning on 17m

Paul, W9AC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W9YE on February 12, 2023, 05:46:10 AM
Yes, Paul, and he's asking for NA at the moment.  Dare I say it - very little DQRM by comparison to what we've all been enduring.  GL to all.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0AP on February 12, 2023, 05:57:09 AM
Some bad sickos have taken control over our hobby... a full mental evaluation should be a hard requirement prior issuing a HAM license.

73 Dragan K0AP
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 12, 2023, 06:55:52 AM
So today they are on 10M.  Which means they could have always been on 10M.  10M could be an excellent band with the high SFI for ATNOs.  Its also very good at reducing some DQRM because of the skip zones.  While admiring the drive of these guys to have gotten on the island and operate, the decision making is seriously flawed in my opinion.

Are these guys completely unaware of the CQ WPX RTTY contest going on this weekend as an example?

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 12, 2023, 07:20:40 AM
Anyone hearing if they planned resupply went ahead this morning??
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5MOA on February 12, 2023, 07:21:44 AM
Log online

https://www.m0oxo.com/oqrs/logsearch.php

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 12, 2023, 07:21:57 AM
The log has been updated and my 30 meter QSO is good. Doing the happy dance for sure.

Gl to all.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 12, 2023, 07:28:35 AM
Log online

https://www.m0oxo.com/oqrs/logsearch.php (https://www.m0oxo.com/oqrs/logsearch.php)

Me thinks there's gonna' be some relieved Hams, but gonna' be a lot of brokenhearted Hams too...

$15 confirmation.  It is what it is, gotta' pay to play.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1VT on February 12, 2023, 07:30:54 AM
W1VT worked 1 band slot and has 1 QSO in the 3Y0J log

First QSO in the log: 06 Feb 2023 16:24 UTC
Last QSO in the log: 12 Feb 2023 13:26 UTC

A reminder that the last QSO in the log doesn't always mean every QSO in the log.
Sometimes they have issues with certain bands or modes that take longer to get into the online  log.
The only slots shown are for CW and SSB.  I don't see any FT8 slots.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 12, 2023, 07:33:08 AM
Log online

https://www.m0oxo.com/oqrs/logsearch.php

Yess!!!!!!! My QSO is good!

Oh I think it's time...

Bring on the Zebra!!!!

(http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp30/k0yq/zebra_zpsolaagrsw.gif)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5MOA on February 12, 2023, 07:33:48 AM
Log online

https://www.m0oxo.com/oqrs/logsearch.php (https://www.m0oxo.com/oqrs/logsearch.php)

Me thinks there's gonna' be some relieved Hams, but gonna' be a lot of brokenhearted Hams too...

NØUN

Most likely, always seems to be. For myself, I'm quite happy.

No data logs uploaded yet. 

On ClubLog also
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 12, 2023, 07:36:40 AM
Clublog:
https://clublog.org/charts/?c=3Y0J
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W9AC on February 12, 2023, 07:38:55 AM
A reminder that the last QSO in the log doesn't always mean every QSO in the log.

For example, many full-exchange 17m QSOs I saw on CW Skimmer in the last two hours are not yet in their log. Those will likely appear in the next log update.

Paul, W9AC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 12, 2023, 07:56:51 AM
This is fun. Now we can see who had multiple QSOs even after they asked us to lit to ONE only.

Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 12, 2023, 08:00:17 AM
Interesting stats so far.

NØUN

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/stats-1.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W9AC on February 12, 2023, 08:01:02 AM
This is fun. Now we can see who had multiple QSOs even after they asked us to lit to ONE only.

Paul

And, those who have duplicate QSOs while complaining relentlessly on eHam for the last week.  I already see a few.

Paul, W9AC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 12, 2023, 08:03:43 AM
This is fun. Now we can see who had multiple QSOs even after they asked us to lit to ONE only.

Paul
apparently, the unique call signs number between 45% and 78% based on which day. Lots of people are vying for the “all about me” award.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 12, 2023, 08:07:15 AM
That was never going to happen,

57% Unique's shows that,


This is fun. Now we can see who had multiple QSOs even after they asked us to lit to ONE only.

Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 12, 2023, 08:11:53 AM
This is fun. Now we can see who had multiple QSOs even after they asked us to lit to ONE only.

Paul

And, those who have duplicate QSOs while complaining relentlessly on eHam for the last week.  I already see a few.

Paul, W9AC

With no log out (until now) and all the slims and QRM repeating calls - those are "insurance Q's".

In life there are two types of Hams.  Those that do, and those that don't.

Think I'll go chase some bandfills now, bwahahahahaha!

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 12, 2023, 08:27:53 AM
As Attila the Hun said, “all Huns have purpose, some if only to show the other Huns how NOT to act.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 12, 2023, 08:35:37 AM
Grateful to be good in log - OQRS completed. One 30M QSO.

For those that have dupes now - normal insurance QSO - with all of the pirate activity I was going to make one myself but hadn't had the chance yet. Unless they give the word that it's OK to work more slots now, I will standby and hope that all those yet to get in the log will have a chance.

One tent for sleeping, cooking, operating. No Chairs, sitting on floor. No heat while doing radio in a life threatening climate after risking a challenging voyage in a dangerous ocean. 3Y0J.


Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 12, 2023, 08:43:06 AM
Grateful to be good in log - OQRS completed. One 30M QSO.

For those that have dupes now - normal insurance QSO - with all of the pirate activity I was going to make one myself but hadn't had the chance yet. Unless they give the word that it's OK to work more slots now, I will standby and hope that all those yet to get in the log will have a chance.

One tent for sleeping, cooking, operating. No Chairs, sitting on floor. No heat while doing radio in a life threatening climate after risking a challenging voyage in a dangerous ocean. 3Y0J.


Randy / WB9LUR

Equally as greatful & happy I am in the log.

I was on the edge to make an insurance QSO as well.. and had they been on the air the last night or so I might have tried but I'll stand by while others try to get an ATNO. Plenty others here and I've got some friends locally still trying. If they do give the ok, I'll try to add another band or two. I haven't seen or heard them on 15/17 at all. An FT8 QSO would be nice. At this point I'll encourage others to keep trying and wish everyone good luck who aren't in there yet.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 12, 2023, 08:44:08 AM
I see that three members of the team that went to Bouvet got into the 3Y0J  log for cw Q's       Nifty!!!   


Gino




Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: IW0HQE on February 12, 2023, 08:44:21 AM
I am trying to decode them now on 10 meters ft8, I am hearing a strong rtty digital signal interfering.  :'(

Is it because of the rtty contest, or ..... ?  :o
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 12, 2023, 08:49:47 AM
C O N G R A T S  to all of you who are already in the log. I'm still on the hunt. I don't see any 20m QSOs in their log so either I worked a pirate or two, or the log may still be uploaded later.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 12, 2023, 08:57:45 AM
C O N G R A T S  to all of you who are already in the log. I'm still on the hunt. I don't see any 20m QSOs in their log so either I worked a pirate or two, or the log may still be uploaded later.

Marvin VE3VEE

I think it's a partial log update since FT8 is missing altogether and I don't see anything 20m listed (it doesn't yet even show up as a band). If they get a chance to move more materials and people - maybe those logs will make it back for upload in the next day or so!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 12, 2023, 09:07:36 AM
In life there are two types of Hams.  Those that do, and those that don't.

It's more complex than that. As with anything else in life that involves humans, there's always these types...
ME ME ME...
(https://i.postimg.cc/cH5dxSBs/me.jpg)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 12, 2023, 09:14:49 AM
They had a meeting and decided to operate till gasoline in the generator runs out (likely tomorrow their afternoon) and then they will dismantle antennas and everything else and plan to head to the boat on Tuesday.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 12, 2023, 09:15:17 AM
$15 confirmation.  It is what it is, gotta' pay to play.

We don't know how many FT8 QSOs have been made, but from the last log upload, with a budget of $715k and 12k QSOs in the log, that's around $60 per QSO.

$15 is a bargain.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 12, 2023, 09:18:13 AM
In life there are two types of Hams.  Those that do, and those that don't.

It's more complex than that. As with anything else in life that involves humans, there's always these types...
ME ME ME...
(https://i.postimg.cc/cH5dxSBs/me.jpg)

Mark the day down when YOU donate $850.00 up front (with no guarantees) so I can get the chance to work a DXpedition.

'Till then I'll work my station the way I want to work my station.

Another putz on Ignore...

NØUN (me, myself & I)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KF6QEX on February 12, 2023, 09:22:47 AM
I am trying to decode them now on 10 meters ft8, I am hearing a strong rtty digital signal interfering.  :'(

Is it because of the rtty contest, or ..... ?  :o
Currently 17:21 UTC  it's KZ5MM and K4MTS chatting on RTTY

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 12, 2023, 09:24:36 AM
In the latest video on 3Y0J Facebook you can hear the pilot station saying there are many requests for 10 and 20m. Ken replies saying 20m "is on the agenda", and they do have a 20m antenna up. Listen starting 4:20.






C O N G R A T S  to all of you who are already in the log. I'm still on the hunt. I don't see any 20m QSOs in their log so either I worked a pirate or two, or the log may still be uploaded later.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 12, 2023, 09:25:37 AM
They had a meeting and decided to operate till gasoline in the generator runs out (likely tomorrow their afternoon) and then they will dismantle antennas and everything else and plan to head to the boat on Tuesday.

Marvin VE3VEE

Oh wow, last night's satellite call they posted they were hopeful to get more equipment and ops to the island. Perhaps upcoming weather said otherwise. Well, hope you guys can get in the log who still need em'.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 12, 2023, 09:35:11 AM
Never mind I see someone posted that they are leaving early.
This has really been a chaotic Dxpedition!  One minute you hear one thing and then another minute the plan has changed.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 12, 2023, 10:39:20 AM
Quote
They attempted a Zodiac landing earlier today, but were unsuccessful. The landing point is all rocks and ice, with a waterfall adjacent. If they could have landed, they were planning to bring more food, fuel, an amplifier, another generator, and more antennas. Being unable to do that, they decided they had had enough of operating on the cold floor (no tables or chairs), no heat (been living in their winter clothes for a week), high winds, etc. I don’t envy their situation.

Rich KE1B
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 12, 2023, 10:46:40 AM
And surprising that the "Media Officer" is the last to know...or at least publish.  Honestly, if you are going to have a media officer, at least respect what his job is supposed to be.

I think they are making the right decision to QRT in the known weather window.  They got dangerously low on fuel and food this round.  Next round might not be as forgiving. 

They can get off now and hopefully everyone stays safe.

The DXpedition is what it is and won't be turned into a smashing success by another few days and another antenna and tent.  Better to accept the successes gained (which were huge) and call it a day, with everyone safe.

I hope if there ever is another one, the Zodiacs are way bigger or they bring a crack helicopter pilot like 3Y0X did, or both.  If not, don't bother.  That's my opinion.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6AB on February 12, 2023, 10:52:23 AM
They had a meeting and decided to operate till gasoline in the generator runs out (likely tomorrow their afternoon) and then they will dismantle antennas and everything else and plan to head to the boat on Tuesday.

Marvin VE3VEE
Although I did not work them, I'm glad the circus is over.
It was a disastrous DX-pedition for both 3Y0J and the HAM community.
While I'm writing this, I still hear the continuous insults going back and forth on 18.125
Until the Bouvet catastrophe, I estimated the IQ of an average radio amateur about 30 units higher.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 12, 2023, 10:57:23 AM
I hope if there ever is another one, the Zodiacs are way bigger or they bring a crack helicopter pilot like 3Y0X did, or both.  If not, don't bother.  That's my opinion.

I agree. And honestly, being positioned on the wrong side of the island was a huge handicap from word go, but of course they didn't really have any choice in the matter. Environmental regulations win again. Sigh.

One has to wonder if Dom is sitting under a palm tree somewhere in the South Pacific, sipping a nice rum drink and thanking his lucky stars that he didn't attempt this with minimal equipment and crew.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AA1UI on February 12, 2023, 10:59:48 AM
The amount of hours I've spent trying to work them... A lot, i'll just say. Getting up crack of a$$ to catch grey line, staying up late and I still have got nothing. Tried CW, FT-8, and of course SSB. The screwups with F/H intervals causing all the WSJT-x folks to xmit on top of the DX was yet another missed opportunity for me and many (until I spoke to people about how to fake the hound mode when they were working the inverse interval). Particularly with CW, when I did hear them, the amount malicious QRM was so bad, I didn't have a chance.  I've never seen such behavior. I realize people are frustrated, but to act out with so much deliberate QRM, I just don't get that mindset. Anyway, I will keep trying until the end, but my hopes aren't high at this point. Pluses are I learned more about FT-8 and the special modes and I also learned about JTDX. So, I guess that's a good takeaway from the experience. Really didn't think it would be this hard. I've never not been able to work a DXpedition before during all my years as a ham. This is a first!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W9AC on February 12, 2023, 11:02:17 AM
After a 10-year hiatus, I returned to the hobby in 1989 and 3Y5X was a big deal.  For those interested, here's a link to a video, made back in the days of 8mm video tape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPz_c5BcTUU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPz_c5BcTUU)

About the only tool available to assist with making a contact was watching PacketCluster via a local 2m link. 

Paul, W9AC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 12, 2023, 11:22:49 AM
The DXpedition is what it is and won't be turned into a smashing success by another few days and another antenna and tent.  Better to accept the successes gained (which were huge) and call it a day, with everyone safe.

Ed  N1UR

I don't know how you can call this a "huge success".  :o 

How many days will they have operated versus how many they planned?  That's not even mentioning the wire antennas, minimal bands, and no amps.  I doubt this moves down more than a few notches on the most wanted list.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD0PO on February 12, 2023, 11:41:19 AM
Log Search
This form allows you to check if you are "in the log". It only works for registered Club Log users and expeditions that have uploaded their logs.

Log to search:   3Y0J
11,579 QSOs logged between 2023-02-06 16:24Z and 2023-02-12 13:26Z
Callsign to check:   
FT8WW

Band   CW
15   1
Note: 3Y0J is also using the Club Log expedition charts

kind of cool

Ray
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 12, 2023, 12:01:42 PM
well i made it very happy but looking at the numbers from oceania :( only 140 qso's that is terrible but then again it is cw and ssb only and admittedly ops here are mainly ft8 or ssb so i dont feel guilty for my few qso's from my suburban station.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 12, 2023, 12:09:14 PM
Log Search
This form allows you to check if you are "in the log". It only works for registered Club Log users and expeditions that have uploaded their logs.

Log to search:   3Y0J
11,579 QSOs logged between 2023-02-06 16:24Z and 2023-02-12 13:26Z
Callsign to check:   
FT8WW

Band   CW
15   1
Note: 3Y0J is also using the Club Log expedition charts

kind of cool

Ray

Maybe Thiery will make DXCC.  He'll be stuck on that rock for some time.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 12, 2023, 12:17:55 PM
Maybe Thiery will make DXCC.  He'll be stuck on that rock for some time.
I think he's there for another month. I'd be surprised if he didn't already have 100 entities in the log.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI5GUB on February 12, 2023, 12:21:12 PM
hi all,the split 3Y0J was using tonight was very wide and very hard to find what pattern he was using,Ive spent months like everyone watching their every move on there Webpage and Facebook,tracked the jet from UK,Marama on its Journey and all for nothing and now they're leaving tomorrow,and the lidfest was the worst Ive ever seen,I dont think we will ever see a Dxpedition to there again
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 12, 2023, 12:37:01 PM
I dont think we will ever see a Dxpedition to there again
I wonder if Dom (3Y0I) still has plans to go to Bouvet. Seeing as tonight is my last chance to get in the 3Y0J log, I am not overly optimistic.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI5GUB on February 12, 2023, 12:45:08 PM
hi yes hes gone quiet here in Ireland so im out of luck also,I spent 3 hrs up and down the split on 17m and no joy,every cluster spot had him in different parts of Band,my brain or whats left of it is fried,roll on the Pike fishing season
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 12, 2023, 01:00:38 PM
lets look at the positives they made 11000+  qso gave many an atno me included  which from a group in the aural zone @ 100watts and basic antennas isnt bad the ft8 logs should help and i have 1 ft8 qso so im done calling but will listen.
Dom has said on the rebel facebook page he will go back with his own boat to Bouvet and peter 1 island.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 12, 2023, 01:02:43 PM
I dont think we will ever see a Dxpedition to there again
I wonder if Dom (3Y0I) still has plans to go to Bouvet. Seeing as tonight is my last chance to get in the 3Y0J log, I am not overly optimistic.

This will still be a top 5 or 10 most wanted.  Some group will make an attempt.  Whether they get permission and funding is the question. 

Maybe 30M at greyline tonight Mason.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI5GUB on February 12, 2023, 01:05:35 PM
sorry i dont have much positive to say im just dissappointed,I hope they get home safe,and no i think it all will be alesson to everyone else that the island isnt habitable or safe,they dont call it the most uninhabitabe place on earth for nothing
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AF5CC on February 12, 2023, 01:33:11 PM
Are there any scientific bases left on Bouvet?  Wasn't Chuck Brady (3Y0C) at a base there?  Maybe we can get another ham or 2 stationed at the base if there are some still there that are manned.

73 John AF5CC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 12, 2023, 01:34:51 PM
I am not overly optimistic.

Mason,
They were loudest here in Potomac MD between 5:00 and 6:30 pm on 30 CW. That’s your best chance; go get ‘em

Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 12, 2023, 01:41:30 PM
So are there guys on the boat who have never LEFT the boat and have never made a contact as 3Y0J?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 12, 2023, 01:43:01 PM
I am not overly optimistic.

Mason,
They were loudest here in Potomac MD between 5:00 and 6:30 pm on 30 CW. That’s your best chance; go get ‘em

Paul

Here in NJ between the same times on 30 CW + 0500-0700z on 30m. Providing they're on 30m.. that's 3 or 4 hours of pileup time. Go Mason!!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 12, 2023, 01:46:43 PM
There are no bases there. Brady operated out of a shipping type container structure; there are two now, unmanned, that are  gathering weather info.
Are there any scientific bases left on Bouvet?  Wasn't Chuck Brady (3Y0C) at a base there?  Maybe we can get another ham or 2 stationed at the base if there are some still there that are manned.

73 John AF5CC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 12, 2023, 01:49:29 PM
Agree with the 5:30-6:30 time slot on the east coast of the US. That's when I got them , but it was a S0.05 contact that I had to ask for a repeat on (and got).

Hardest Q I've ever worked for.

John K5MO
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3STX on February 12, 2023, 01:50:11 PM
FWIW at 0500-0600Z on 30 I heard NOTHING but DQRM.

Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 12, 2023, 01:52:23 PM
I am not overly optimistic.

Mason,
They were loudest here in Potomac MD between 5:00 and 6:30 pm on 30 CW. That’s your best chance; go get ‘em

Paul

Here in NJ between the same times on 30 CW + 0500-0700z on 30m. Providing they're on 30m.. that's 3 or 4 hours of pileup time. Go Mason!!

The final insult:  a SSB QSO on 10.120.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 12, 2023, 02:01:35 PM
FWIW at 0500-0600Z on 30 I heard NOTHING but DQRM.

Paul

Those hours had much less DQRM I found. It was the 5:00 - 6:30 EST time that has been almost straight DQRM every night (and of course that's when my QSO occured...)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 12, 2023, 02:03:10 PM
I am not overly optimistic.

Mason,
They were loudest here in Potomac MD between 5:00 and 6:30 pm on 30 CW. That’s your best chance; go get ‘em

Paul

Here in NJ between the same times on 30 CW + 0500-0700z on 30m. Providing they're on 30m.. that's 3 or 4 hours of pileup time. Go Mason!!
I've been in the pileups at those times every day and they have indeed had good signals at times. It's just a matter of getting through the massive pileups and battling the DQRM. I would estimate I have spent a good 12 hours calling so far  :o

I have not heard them anywhere but on 30m except very briefly on 20m which may have been a pirate.

73
Mason - KM4SII
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4JK on February 12, 2023, 02:03:43 PM
They have  had a small but enthusiastic pileup on 30m for a good 40 mins. Lots of EU calling. N/C here though... Then someone spotted them on 10.120 and the Cops and Jammers showed up like 5 seconds later.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 12, 2023, 02:17:50 PM
They don't appear to be on 10.120 now, someone does 1 or 2 QSO's really weak then stops think it's Mr Slim as usual. I'm sure there is about 5000 people sitting waiting for the first proper CQ from them
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 12, 2023, 02:21:54 PM
They don't appear to be on 10.120 now, someone does 1 or 2 QSO's really weak then stops think it's Mr Slim as usual. I'm sure there is about 5000 people sitting waiting for the first proper CQ from them

Yeah, no signal now.  This is my grayline. 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 12, 2023, 02:22:01 PM

Dom has said on the rebel facebook page he will go back with his own boat to Bouvet and peter 1 island.


I just checked Dom's Facebook page. I don't see that. Could you post a link to that specific comment, or could you post a quote here.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 12, 2023, 02:24:29 PM

This will still be a top 5 or 10 most wanted.


If it was #2, I think it still will be #2, or perhaps #3.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4JK on February 12, 2023, 02:25:36 PM
They don't appear to be on 10.120 now, someone does 1 or 2 QSO's really weak then stops think it's Mr Slim as usual. I'm sure there is about 5000 people sitting waiting for the first proper CQ from them
Yeah they seem to be gone now, but they were there. 10.120 was announced on Facebook, there was definitely a pileup with lots of EU callers, but that was a good 20-25 mins before I posted my last message.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 12, 2023, 02:28:14 PM
I saw a pileup on my waterfall for a few minutes on 30m CW, but nothing now. Same for 17m FT8.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EA0021SWL on February 12, 2023, 02:32:02 PM

Dom has said on the rebel facebook page he will go back with his own boat to Bouvet and peter 1 island.


I just checked Dom's Facebook page. I don't see that. Could you post a link to that specific comment, or could you post a quote here.

Marvin VE3VEE
Rebel DX Group
11 de enero  ·
3y0i wishing 3y0j all the very best with their plans during the next weeks.
Hope soon Hams vs Bouvetoya score will change to 1 : 2
Our Bouvet  project is still on. Now All depends of the situation with upcoming activity. We either continue to Bouvetoya by end of the year or we will move this project to Peter 1( 3y0/P) next year. Callsign and landing  permission are on the way.
This time with our own ship.
More detals soon.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 12, 2023, 02:34:29 PM

This will still be a top 5 or 10 most wanted.



If it was #2, I think it still will be #2, or perhaps #3.

Marvin VE3VEE

They have not even made a dent in the real demand but the really connected Dxpedition backers are probably in the log so that is another dynamic.

The annoying part for me is that they are working the Ja, EU stations then seem to take a break and come back when the West Coast is open.
The East Coast, Mid America, Caribbean and most of SA get nothing.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 12, 2023, 02:53:05 PM

We either continue to Bouvetoya by end of the year or we will move this project to Peter 1( 3y0/P) next year.


Yes, that's how I remember it. One island or the other. Not both. Even though both would be nice.  ;D ;D ;D

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 12, 2023, 02:58:12 PM

Dom has said on the rebel facebook page he will go back with his own boat to Bouvet and peter 1 island.


I just checked Dom's Facebook page. I don't see that. Could you post a link to that specific comment, or could you post a quote here.
marvin check your ve3vee page messages.

and who knows what he will do its a struggle




Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 12, 2023, 03:03:40 PM
Maybe I'm greedy but I hope Dom doesn't go to 3Y, Let him work towards Peter 1 and or maybe something else in the top 20,

Bouvet needs a chopper to be done right, this trip has proved that,

And it's going to be very hard to raise another Million to activate it any time soon again,
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 12, 2023, 03:22:28 PM

marvin check your ve3vee page messages.


Thanks Steve. I received it via my Facebook, but the screen shot is too small so I cannot read the tiny print. I enlarged it in a photo editing software, but it is unreadable. Bot no worries. I believe it is the message Dom posted after his Banaba expedition. He said he would either go to Bouvet if 3Y0J doesn't get there or he would go to Peter 1 (not both).

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 12, 2023, 03:50:27 PM
Maybe I'm greedy but I hope Dom doesn't go to 3Y, Let him work towards Peter 1 and or maybe something else in the top 20,
Bouvet needs a chopper to be done right, this trip has proved that, And it's going to be very hard to raise another Million to activate it any time soon again

Well he was going on about this for so long it's time for him to back up his braggadocio with actions. We've seen what obstacles faced a global team with a fortune at their fingertips. Let's see him try to do it as he said he could. If he can, GREAT! He'll get a nice hefty donation with my OQRS submission if he can pull it off. I don't think it's possible, however. Not from Cape Fie at any rate. But who knows. Maybe when he gets there there will be relatively calm winds for a week or two, or he'll get permission to land on the west side of the island.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 12, 2023, 04:12:17 PM
Guys, shouldn't we keep our focus on hoping this team get off the island and home safely first?

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 12, 2023, 04:20:57 PM
Guys, shouldn't we keep our focus on hoping this team get off the island and home safely first?
I think that goes without saying!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 12, 2023, 04:22:49 PM
i had written this off as a bust but was lucky i just want them home safe seeing cexar transfer from zodiac to marama was enough for me.
Mariv i copy pasted

Quote
Biggest question on my mind is 'will you guys try for another bouvet operation, or will you do something else like peter 1 instead?' 😉
Reply10 h
Dom Dom
Yes we will. Actually both on our own vessel. But plans not always work as we plan. So many different factors
Reply10 hEdited
Bill Crossley
I wish you the best of luck and hope to get you in my log from both. Especially if my 3y0j QSOs turn out to be busted...
Reply9 h
John Draves
The dxpedtion is great. The operators everywhere else are not
Reply10 h
Dom Dom
John Draves they land and operate. Question is if they were ready for this condition or not. Bouvet trip requires survival guys more than best operators. I keep my fingers crossed for them to keep operate and back home in one piece
Reply10 hEdited
Bill Crossley
Agree with that! I have 3 possible QSOs in my log, but due to lids, pirates, idiots, jammers, etc., I can not be sure of any of them. WTF is wrong with people?
Reply9 h
Sinisa Ruzin
What type of a boat should be used to transfer the equipment to the Bouvet island from main ship? Is it possible to go to the top of the hills or land on the northern shores? The current expedition is on the South side and I have not heard them in NA at all. Thanks.
Reply10 h
Dom Dom
Sinisa Ruzin we had 3 rib boats. 1 with twin engine 8 pax 6m . 2 other hard floor 4.2m. Aluminum hull. This big RIB boat will pull other one from shore back to the ocean using floating ropes without using human muscles. You need to have knowledge how to surf the waves to go on shore full speed. Than when you unload your people and cargo, this powerfull zodiac is pulling smaller one back to ocean.
Reply10 hEdited
Andrius Ignotas
Sinisa Ruzin 🚁 best way to transfer people and equipment to the island.
Reply10 h
Rebel DX Group
Andrius Ignotas that is the easiest way. But 85% of the time you can't fly due to wind, fog, mist, snow storm. There is no problem to start helicopter from the ship and land on the glacier..... The problem starts when you want to land back on the rolling vessel... I know one crazy fooker who is doing that every single day... He is flying on board of Aquilhas II South African Department of Environmental vessel.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 12, 2023, 07:28:56 PM
And that would be the same mistake made on this Dxpedition.
One bigger Boat to carry supplies is a singular failure point.

The boat idea should be a backup to having a Helicopter.  The weather may be bad but your bound to have a clear day and on that day you can get all the equipment over.  If the sea gets rough and the Helicopter cannot land back on the boat it can land by the camp and wait it out.
If things are so bad that you cannot use the Helicopter then go to Plan B and use the Zodiacs.

Another thing is that I think Ken said they had small Honda generators for backup power.  If it's the model I would expect them to carry, the Honda EU2200i they could have used the Parallel cable kit and used two to Generate over 4000W @ 120V.   This would have been plenty of power for two 500W Amplifiers or a 1000W Amp.




Dom Dom
Sinisa Ruzin we had 3 rib boats. 1 with twin engine 8 pax 6m . 2 other hard floor 4.2m. Aluminum hull. This big RIB boat will pull other one from shore back to the ocean using floating ropes without using human muscles. You need to have knowledge how to surf the waves to go on shore full speed. Than when you unload your people and cargo, this powerfull zodiac is pulling smaller one back to ocean
.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 12, 2023, 07:44:46 PM
Sunrise, as I write 0343Z (GMT+1 local Bouvet).  I can see why they bumped up their departure - plain as day.  They have a fair weather day during daylight today, and daylight tomorrow, and that's it.

Looking at the videos on their Facebook page is telling - they almost lost an unsecured Ham trying to board the Marama from a zodiac.

By the way, also as I write - Dom and Joanna are in flight, just landed in LA, on their way back to Fiji, from Poland.  He has other plans than Bouvet for now.

NØUN

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/weather.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 12, 2023, 08:13:17 PM

Mariv i copy pasted


Much appreciated Steve. I didn't read that Dom's posting before!

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 12, 2023, 09:04:32 PM
I have a feeling they are QRT for good. As far as I can tell, they have not been QRV since about 22z. Unfortunately, I was not able to make it through, but congrats to all who were able to work them. A truly valiant effort by the team despite all the difficulties they endured. Well done!

Now to set my sights on 3B7M in less than two weeks for my next potential ATNO.

73
Mason - KM4SII
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W4AMP on February 12, 2023, 11:08:13 PM
Never worked them, never even heard them. But I worked the one man dxpedition 3Y0C in 2000. Navy astronaut Chuck Brady stayed four months and made thousands of contacts.
(https://www.qsl.net/wd4ngb/3yantenna.jpg)
(https://www.qsl.net/wd4ngb/3yshack.jpg)
(https://www.qsl.net/wd4ngb/overlook.jpg)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 12, 2023, 11:17:37 PM
Well they're back on, but just as the band is basically closed here... working mostly JA. Oh well...
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 12, 2023, 11:44:19 PM
They are now on 10120 kHz CW apparently. I have never heard them on 30 m. I just see a pileup and shenanigans on 10120.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: OH1HAQ on February 13, 2023, 12:16:58 AM
How they were able to transport Chuck's conteiner there?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W4AMP on February 13, 2023, 01:38:42 AM
How they were able to transport Chuck's conteiner there?
Chuck strapped it to his back and swam it ashore.
 ;D
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 13, 2023, 01:54:52 AM
How they were able to transport Chuck's conteiner there?


Norwegians had a small weather station/research base there.  I assume it one of their buildings.


Gino
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2LO on February 13, 2023, 04:14:47 AM
   Chuck, 3Y0C, was a medical doctor engaged by the Norwegians to accompany their scientific team to Bouvet; it was not simply a DXpedition. He did a great job despite an amp (visible in the previous photos) that stopped working shortly after he arrived and could not be resuscitated despite on-air asistance from tech support. Spare parts for amps are in limited supply on Bouvet as you can imagine. Virtually the entire effort was QRP.

   The winds battered his hexbeam requiring several repair efforts but since he was on the northeast quadrant with the team from Norway, despite the enforced QRP and being the sole op, he still was able to work the US/VE on many bands. He also had serious problems with his generator but thanks again to on-air help, they were able to overcome that problem too.

  A great man who had a life of service to his country.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 13, 2023, 05:45:22 AM
And that would be the same mistake made on this Dxpedition.
One bigger Boat to carry supplies is a singular failure point.

The boat idea should be a backup to having a Helicopter.  The weather may be bad but your bound to have a clear day and on that day you can get all the equipment over.  If the sea gets rough and the Helicopter cannot land back on the boat it can land by the camp and wait it out.
If things are so bad that you cannot use the Helicopter then go to Plan B and use the Zodiacs.






Can you figure out why landing a helicopter on a sailboat might be problematic?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 13, 2023, 05:59:08 AM
Does anyone remember a program on TV years back can't remember they name of it but the used to sail around the Southern Seas in a big boat trying to stop the JA's from killing whales, I think the boat was called the Sea Shepard

They had a nice Helicopter on board and were always short on cash, I wonder is that ship still around could be an option in there off season, Boat was crewed by a load of dope smoking hippies  ;D
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 13, 2023, 06:07:32 AM
That was Greenpeace.  And I haven't heard of them doing things like that any more for a long long time.  They did have a very Dxpedition worthy boat though as I remember.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 13, 2023, 06:09:40 AM
Does anyone remember a program on TV years back can't remember they name of it but the used to sail around the Southern Seas in a big boat trying to stop the JA's from killing whales, I think the boat was called the Sea Shepard
I believe you are thinking of Whale Wars.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 13, 2023, 06:41:08 AM
Yes that was it, used to love it and American Chopper on Discovery back in the day,


Does anyone remember a program on TV years back can't remember they name of it but the used to sail around the Southern Seas in a big boat trying to stop the JA's from killing whales, I think the boat was called the Sea Shepard
I believe you are thinking of Whale Wars.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 13, 2023, 06:57:47 AM
Does anyone remember a program on TV years back can't remember they name of it but the used to sail around the Southern Seas in a big boat trying to stop the JA's from killing whales, I think the boat was called the Sea Shepard

They had a nice Helicopter on board and were always short on cash, I wonder is that ship still around could be an option in there off season, Boat was crewed by a load of dope smoking hippies  ;D
We saw their mother ship docked in Antigua last season and it was for sale. No one aboard.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: G0HVQ on February 13, 2023, 07:33:16 AM
I though the last trip to Bouvet had a helicopter and it couldn't take off because it was too windy? Let's face it, this is a very difficult place to get ashore.

Reminds me of my youth, hired a a boat in Croatia and sailed out to one of the 100s of uninhabited islands offshore with no thought on how to land and keep the boat tied up  ;D Much better weather than Bouvet too.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 13, 2023, 07:34:24 AM
From DX World

[FEBRUARY 13 @ 1520Z]
NEW QRT DATE/ TIME – – 3Y0J will QRT Tuesday, 14 February 2023 at 03:00 UTC. Team will then pull out and transport all equipment to Marama. The final log update will be made once we are on Marama.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 13, 2023, 08:00:32 AM
Assuming that is tonight - Tuesday at 0300Z.

If they show up on SSB between now and then, it will be caos.  They uploaded only 40 Qs in all of NA on SSB.  Wow!  And only 97 Qs on 15M for NA.  I was one of those on 15M CW.

Ed  N1UR

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 13, 2023, 08:08:13 AM
From DX World

[FEBRUARY 13 @ 1520Z]
NEW QRT DATE/ TIME – – 3Y0J will QRT Tuesday, 14 February 2023 at 03:00 UTC. Team will then pull out and transport all equipment to Marama. The final log update will be made once we are on Marama.

73 Rich KB8GAE

If they got on 30m that's possibly one more sunset peak for NA. Hope so for you guys. Never give up!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 13, 2023, 09:25:37 AM
They are loud now on 17 FT8 LP, but working almost exclusively EU.

My QSOs were both on CW and are good in the log, so I'm grateful to be able to "tune out" and move on from this extremely memorable, but exhausting, operation.  Unlike the guys on the island, who still have a lot of dangerous work ahead of them.  Wishing them the best in getting safely back to their ship, then back home.

I'm looking forward to seeing the video, that's for sure.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 13, 2023, 09:26:13 AM
And that would be the same mistake made on this Dxpedition.
One bigger Boat to carry supplies is a singular failure point.

The boat idea should be a backup to having a Helicopter.  The weather may be bad but your bound to have a clear day and on that day you can get all the equipment over.  If the sea gets rough and the Helicopter cannot land back on the boat it can land by the camp and wait it out.
If things are so bad that you cannot use the Helicopter then go to Plan B and use the Zodiacs.






Can you figure out why landing a helicopter on a sailboat might be problematic?

Who said anything about a Sail Boat.  Dom is talking about using a Ship and a ship is what is needed for this one.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 13, 2023, 09:55:55 AM
I have been up since 5:30 AM hoping to catch them on the long path, but the only thing I have copied is a singular 17m FT8 decode at 1733z that I noticed when I checked WSJT after class. That is the first time I have heard 3Y0J on any band other than 30m since it seems the 20m CW station I picked up must have been a pirate.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 13, 2023, 10:04:05 AM
Assuming that is tonight - Tuesday at 0300Z.

If they show up on SSB between now and then, it will be caos.  They uploaded only 40 Qs in all of NA on SSB.  Wow!  And only 97 Qs on 15M for NA.  I was one of those on 15M CW.

Ed  N1UR

I was one of the 40 15m ssb Qs.   I'd like to have a 15 cw Q, but they are rarely above S1 here. 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 13, 2023, 11:25:44 AM
I though the last trip to Bouvet had a helicopter and it couldn't take off because it was too windy? Let's face it, this is a very difficult place to get ashore.


It could not Take off because the First day was windy and then one of the boats engines broke down so they had to abort before a calm day arrived.

Watch this Video.  Would you rather do it the way it was done at the 8:00 Min Mark  or do it the way they tried at the 21:30 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzewDrx_F8U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzewDrx_F8U)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE4YD on February 13, 2023, 11:53:53 AM
Mason,
I saw about the same thing as you did. I did see there first decode about 16:30 and then they would go blank for 5 or 10 minutes before another decode altogether I saw about 7 or 8 decodes until 17:30 but never 2 in a row. They were -8 to -14 in Middle TN.
The only 2 bands I heard them on were 30 and 17 meters.  I do not need them on SSB or CW, but was hoping for a digital contact, oh well, better luck next time if I live that long
73,
David  KE4YD
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AF5CC on February 13, 2023, 01:14:36 PM
oh well, better luck next time if I live that long
73,
David  KE4YD

I know the feeling, and I am only 56!  Could have used them for a ATNO.

73 John AF5CC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 13, 2023, 01:46:05 PM
Looks like they are QRT again. Hoping they can get back on the air in the next hour or so -- hopefully on 30m -- as that will probably be my last shot. Unfortunately, their QRT periods the past few days have coincided with peak band opening times for me.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 13, 2023, 01:58:32 PM
If they are going QRT at 03Z where are they now have been off air 19z
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 13, 2023, 02:08:01 PM
There is a station signing 3Y0J on 18107 now but I have strong suspicions that it is a pirate. Firstly, they are varying their TX frequency and do not seem to be using F/H. And secondly, their signal is very strong, although it fluctuates heavily. From a +06 one transmission to a -15 the next.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 13, 2023, 02:11:47 PM
Looks like they are QRT again. Hoping they can get back on the air in the next hour or so -- hopefully on 30m -- as that will probably be my last shot. Unfortunately, their QRT periods the past few days have coincided with peak band opening times for me.

I know a few locally here who have been trying on 30m. Like you, our sunset / their sunrise have been consistently the best time to try... and the last several nights they have been QRT for extended times around these hours. There were 3, maybe 4 nights tops of good opportunities on 30m for the smaller station (myself included). DQRM'ers didn't help of course. Only be sheer dumb luck they all stopped enough for me to hear my call coming back.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 13, 2023, 02:22:40 PM
Only be sheer dumb luck they all stopped enough for me to hear my call coming back.

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 13, 2023, 02:55:26 PM
Only be sheer dumb luck they all stopped enough for me to hear my call coming back.
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.
Yep, and that's how I got my 30m CW contact. I found the QSX, narrowed my notch filter down to 50 Hz, and by some grace of good luck the lids shut up just long enough for me to hear my call coming back to me. I wasn't confident, but it was indeed valid.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE4YD on February 13, 2023, 03:17:29 PM
I saw 2 decodes on 17 meters about a half hour ago, one was +3 the next -16 then nothing.
It is said there are 3 ways to be born, good looking,rich and lucky. If you had a choice pick lucky, it will make up for the other 2.
73,
David  KE4YD
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 13, 2023, 03:20:13 PM
Only be sheer dumb luck they all stopped enough for me to hear my call coming back.

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.

Agreed.. in this case it took both luck and being good. I had found their QSX pretty quickly that evening and stayed with them. The night I worked them I was in and out of the pileup in maybe 15-30 minutes (as opposed to the prior night for a couple hours with no luck). As Peter said - by some luck the lids shut up long enough for me to hear my call clearly. The team was aware of DQRM and they were frustrated with it as well.. often having to call stations several times thanks to being covered up by the DQRM. Anyways - very fortunate, greatful and glad to be in the log.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3YP on February 13, 2023, 04:28:58 PM
What about the Operators who stayed on the boat and didn't even operate ?? They paid big dollars to go on the dxpedition !
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 13, 2023, 04:43:13 PM
What about the Operators who stayed on the boat and didn't even operate ?? They paid big dollars to go on the dxpedition !

Gambling losses can only be deducted against gambling gains.   ;D 

I have a bet.  I'll bet they didn't count on never leaving the boat.  It's a real bummer for those guys.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 13, 2023, 04:50:30 PM
What about the Operators who stayed on the boat and didn't even operate ?? They paid big dollars to go on the dxpedition !

 I feel bad for them. They paid $25,000 to go bobbing up & down in the ocean for a month straight. You know how guys post what past DXpeditions they have been a part of on their QRZ page? Could someone legitimately say they were part of the 3Y0J DXpedition if all they did was stay on the boat?       
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KF6QEX on February 13, 2023, 05:02:07 PM
Quote
Could someone legitimately say they were part of the 3Y0J DXpedition if all they did was stay on the boat? 
Sure they can.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 13, 2023, 05:49:23 PM

Could someone legitimately say they were part of the 3Y0J DXpedition if all they did was stay on the boat?     

Sure but imagine where a conversation could go. "So you were a 3Y0J OP, did you operate or did you stay on the boat?"  Because no DXer will forget what happened on this DXpedition.

Mason will probably still be in this forum, or at least still be a ham, come the 22nd Century just to keep the record straight.  ;)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 13, 2023, 07:00:05 PM
One of the pilots just reported that the reason they have been QRT is their generator died on them again. Previously, they have waited until daylight to fix it. So now the question is will they continue to operate for a few more hours come daylight, or will they be QRT for good? As I type this, the clock has struck 03z which is the time they were supposed to go QRT, at least before the generator failure.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 13, 2023, 07:12:03 PM
Quote
Could someone legitimately say they were part of the 3Y0J DXpedition if all they did was stay on the boat?

Absolutely!

They have taken all the same risks (and those risks have not ended) as everyone else.  This is a genuine adventure and adventures do not come with gold plated guarantees.

Besides, you can be sure that they all contributed in many ways to the expedition before it ever left port.  Setting up and testing stations, the networking solution, packing it up, and who knows what else.  Planning. propagation research.  The list goes on and on.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 13, 2023, 07:12:41 PM
One of the pilots just reported that the reason they have been QRT is their generator died on them again. Previously, they have waited until daylight to fix it. So now the question is will they continue to operate for a few more hours come daylight, or will they be QRT for good? As I type this, the clock has struck 03z which is the time they were supposed to go QRT, at least before the generator failure.

If I had to guess - Tuesday appears to be the only good weather day before it gets nasty again that they are going to be focused soley on getting everyone and everything off the island as soon and as safely as possible. I imagine it is a fair amount of work and time to get everything dissasembled, packed up, down the hill/rock, into boats and back to the sailboat. You never know.. maybe one last run on 30m at daylight but I highly doubt it.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 13, 2023, 07:28:06 PM
From their Facebook Group Page:

3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:

As per Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA

The 3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 DXpedition is QRT as of 14 FEB 2023 03:00 UTC.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 13, 2023, 07:31:43 PM
I think they only were on the air for just a shade under one week, but it sure felt like a lot longer.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 13, 2023, 07:48:13 PM
i reckon they were a success their problem was they painted a completely different picture of how it would go so people got disappointed. 15k plus qso's is a huge effort
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 13, 2023, 08:10:03 PM
That was Greenpeace.  And I haven't heard of them doing things like that any more for a long long time.  They did have a very Dxpedition worthy boat though as I remember.

Ed  N1UR
I saw the Sea Shepherd docked at Williamstown docks several years ago. It was a big ship. The stuff they got up, harassing the "scientific whaling crews" was audacious!
This has been a rather "interesting" episode, to say the least. Certainly something all of us here will remember for a long time. The comments passing on the FB page (apart from the complaints) showed some interesting insights. I remember one person broke down the statistics from the first log upload, and it revealed a disappointingly low proportion of "New DXCC" in the log. After all the log is uploaded, an analysis will be interesting.
Many posters were disappointed in the small amount of Phone operations. Many said they "Did Not Do CW" or "Did Not Do FT8". I frankly have little sympathy for them. The DX Does Not Care About Your Favourite (or Only) Mode of Operation.
As I'm typing this, I'm listening to Thierry FT8WW chugging away steadily in CW on 14034 kHz. He's doing a pretty good job too!
Now we all wait to hear the team has packed up and safely stowed all back aboard the Marama, and of course, the weeks of sailing yet.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0UA on February 13, 2023, 08:55:28 PM
Quote
Many said they "Did Not Do CW" or "Did Not Do FT8". I frankly have little sympathy for them. The DX Does Not Care About Your Favourite (or Only) Mode of Operation.

Agreed. If you don't "DO" some mode that the DX is working, that sounds like a personal problem. A true versatile DXer likes to work what the DX likes to work. What ever that is. If they were on Hellschrieber, I would be on Hell also to work them.  In fact this DXpedition, felt like Hell might have been a good mode for them  :)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 13, 2023, 10:26:29 PM
This one is certainly one for the record books!
I have never seen a dxpedition of the size go to a top 5 most wanted and through bad luck ended up with a signal this weak.  They always succeed or they fail horribly. This one for the first time fell right inbetween!
 
It was a demonstration of how the the DQRMers will eat you alive if your signal is weak and you cannot control the pileup.
It was a demonstration of how far desperate Hams will go for a contact.
 At one point I was noting the oddities in transmissions but after awhile it became so numerous that it became laughable.
It was kind of hilarious to watch so many people on 17m FT8 calling out to them for 4 hours after they went QRT, Automation most certainly is a big thing regardless of what some might say.

The whole F/H confusion was a first.
Operators using their personal expedition call signs was another first.
Lots of crazy took place on this one.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3YP on February 13, 2023, 10:37:53 PM
I am surprised there wasn't better information posted on the official 3Y0J website on what type of FT8 mode they would operate (F/H etc.).

https://www.3y0j.no/bandplan

Also the initial plan of circa 3.5 tonnes of equipment (including 130 kg+ Hyundai diesel 6KVA generators) was way too ambitious to get onto Bouvet. Heck they couldn't even load the Rubber Inflatable Boat on the side of the yacht with all that gear.

Also one of the Zodiac RIBs was torn up landing on bouvet thus requiring future landings to "swim" the last leg wearing immersion suits and float the equipment in sealed containers.

Maybe a small all aluminum landing boat would have been a better option than rubber based Zodiac RIBs.

A light weight bare bones dxpedition would have produced the results. Multiple small 2KV generators (Honda EU2000 style). Small lightweight amps (Juma PA1000) and verticals would have worked.

Trying to build a contest station on Bouvet does not work unless you have weeks for setup and weeks for teardown.

John VK3YP
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 13, 2023, 10:51:51 PM
It was a demonstration of how the the DQRMers will eat you alive if your signal is weak and you cannot control the pileup.

Speaking of DQRM...

DQRM In The 3Y0J Pileups (https://www.n0un.net/dqrm-in-the-3y0j-pileups/)

 :)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 13, 2023, 11:04:43 PM

Could someone legitimately say they were part of the 3Y0J DXpedition if all they did was stay on the boat?     

Sure but imagine where a conversation could go. "So you were a 3Y0J OP, did you operate or did you stay on the boat?"  Because no DXer will forget what happened on this DXpedition.

Mason will probably still be in this forum, or at least still be a ham, come the 22nd Century just to keep the record straight.  ;)

From now on and for the rest of my life, each time I hear or think about Bouvet, I'll smile and think what a beyond believe cluster F-U that undertaking was.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 13, 2023, 11:06:59 PM
From now on and for the rest of my life, each time I hear or think about Bouvet, I'll smile and think what a beyond believe cluster F-U that undertaking was.

That's odd.  I was thinking it was a DXpedition that gave us the CHANCE at working them.  Just like most DXpeditions do.

Maybe some were looking for Participation Trophy's I guess.

For many of us, we'll look back years from now & smile how our preparation, skill & moxie overcame all the DQRM to log 3Y0J.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 13, 2023, 11:25:47 PM
That's odd.  I was thinking it was a DXpedition that gave us the CHANCE at working them.  Just like most DXpeditions do. Maybe some were looking for Participation Trophy's I guess. For many of us, we'll look back years from now & smile how our preparation, skill & moxie overcame all the DQRM to log 3Y0J.

I couldn't say it any better, but I would add that having an above-average station is a big part of that, which I suppose falls into the "preparation" category. But that's why real DXers have a full arsenal of weapons, including those "canned text message modes." We'll find a way if there's any way to be found. That's why DXers are stronger, smarter, and stand up straighter than QRPers. We own radios with very tight filtering to get rid of carriers or non-zero-beat kilocycle kops, directional antennas that will attenuate the QRM by 20dB or more off the back and side, diversity reception for the lowbands to combat fading, properly configured software and knowledge of how to get everything working together. And we constantly hone our pileup skills chasing band-modes with smaller-scale operations.

Of course none of that matters if there's no propagation and the DX is just too weak to copy on all but K3LR-grade stations. So our experience teaches us to look for long path, and if no go, skewed path. We seek out the greyline enhancements, shooting our signal along the terminator rather that LP or SP.

And then despite all that sometimes we roll snake-eyes and the QRMers win, or the sun belches out a cloud of crap at the wrong angle, or the DXpedition ends earlier than planned. We miss out altogether, or bands or modes we need. And it sucks, and we put radio out of our minds and go do something else...until that next Top 10 comes on and we clean them out on 9 or 10 bands and 3 modes, and all is right with the world again.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 13, 2023, 11:58:17 PM
It also doesn't matter if you live in a community (as I do in Arizona) where every housing development built after 1990 or thereabouts, has restrictive HOAs.  No law required it, but realtors told me that was well nigh universal unless you lived well outside the Phoenix Metro or in older housing stock (which not everyone can do for health reasons).

Bully to everyone that manages to get two acres in a radio quiet location and put up the big station.

Not everyone can or even should. But then again, maybe not everyone should aim for the Honor Roll, either.

Still, it is possible to exaggerate one's virtues here and assume the failures of others is entirely a matter of choice.  It isn't.  Some people have hidden constraints -- finances, health, family.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3OD on February 14, 2023, 12:06:10 AM
From now on and for the rest of my life, each time I hear or think about Bouvet, I'll smile and think what a beyond believe cluster F-U that undertaking was.

That's odd.  I was thinking it was a DXpedition that gave us the CHANCE at working them.  Just like most DXpeditions do.

Maybe some were looking for Participation Trophy's I guess.

For many of us, we'll look back years from now & smile how our preparation, skill & moxie overcame all the DQRM to log 3Y0J.

NØUN

Thats exactly how it should be viewed, a success. The goal was to land, keep the team safe work as many stations as possible while coping with the circumstances. There was never a 100% ironclad guaranteed that it would exceed every hams wildest expectations.

This operation was no different to climbing Mount Everest as a challenge, reaching near the summit,  and then weather, avalanches, sickness etc etc changes your plans. This expedition did even better, it reached the summit made many qso's safely  and circumstance ruined the goal.  It then returned its team members safely. Is that not a success in real life?

These kind of adventures are undertaken everyday in life, be it rowing across a ocean, climbing a mountain, sailing a yacht around the 5 southern capes in the same horrific waters, many succeed, many fail and many die.

Your 1st undertaking is criticised by your enemies, your second is praised by  you friends and the 3rd is praised by your team and yourself when you succeed 100% Thats life. Hopefully hams wont give up and there will be a 2nd and 3rd effort at Bouvet.

We should thank the team for trying and delivering for those hams that were lucky with a QSO. They have also delivered a very valuable lesson to those who will try again, albeit an expensive one. The rampant bitterness needs to be set aside and the jammers loudly condemned.

Thanks to the 3Y0J team.

“They did not know it was impossible so they did it”"

    Marc Twain
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 14, 2023, 02:37:19 AM
Still, it is possible to exaggerate one's virtues here and assume the failures of others is entirely a matter of choice.  It isn't.  Some people have hidden constraints -- finances, health, family.
And one must recognise one's limitations and set one's expectations accordingly.
Unfortunately, the expectations were set very high, with the Contest-competitive station that was planned, and everybody with a bit of wire and a transceiver *expected* to make it into the 3Y0J log. It surely would have been a wonderful thing for the plans to have been fully realised, and >>100,000 QSO in the log. But those without a pretty decent station were mostly left disappointed with what the team managed. For those, I guess it would have made no difference if they had *not* managed to get on the island and set up anything. I feel their disappointment.
Anyway, I guess this has given us all something to think about, and talk about for some time yet. I don't see any other Top Twenty Entities coming on air any time soon. Let's hope for a few nice surprises in the next year or two.
In the meantime, enjoy chasing a QSO with #3 Most Wanted, Crozet. Thierry is on daily again, and he's been coming in with a decent signal here.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 14, 2023, 03:34:53 AM
I have to say that I admire that these guys overcame hardship and got on the island and made some Qs, where others have failed totally.  That being said, the last few "Mega DXpeditions" with the $750,000- $1,000,000 pre-departure money raising have been dismal failures in my opinion.  I think that this DXpedition and an unfortunate continuation of other failures have done more harm than good for top 20 DXpetitions for the future.

How many more times are people going to front the big money and see this outcome?

What bothered me about this DXpedition was the extremely poor decisions on bands used, communications through their official channels - not - and bailing out so early.

Did you see the sea conditions in the last pictures?  Did they look hard to land in and beyond what you would have expected in planning?  I hope not.  Why did they bail and not build up further.  $750,000 worth of people funded that, just sayin....

Instead they bailed early.  Could have easily doubled down yesterday and today.  And then left in the next weather window, which seem to come every 4 to 6 days.

People will say, oh but they won't know if they could get off safely...Sorry, you could have said that a year ago, and if that was paralyzing, then don't go.

I really believe future DXpeditions of this magnitude will need to deliver first, fund second.  The pay me up front to help me go model has just died in my opinion.

I hope they are safe getting off and get home.  However, next time, if safe is the ultimate goal, just stay home, that's safe too.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W9AC on February 14, 2023, 04:10:07 AM
I have to say that I admire that these guys overcame hardship and got on the island and made some Qs, where others have failed totally.  That being said, the last few "Mega DXpeditions" with the $750,000- $1,000,000 pre-departure money raising have been dismal failures in my opinion.  I think that this DXpedition and an unfortunate continuation of other failures have done more harm than good for top 20 DXpetitions for the future.

How many more times are people going to front the big money and see this outcome?

What bothered me about this DXpedition was the extremely poor decisions on bands used, communications through their official channels - not - and bailing out so early.

Did you see the sea conditions in the last pictures?  Did they look hard to land in and beyond what you would have expected in planning?  I hope not.  Why did they bail and not build up further.  $750,000 worth of people funded that, just sayin....

Instead they bailed early.  Could have easily doubled down yesterday and today.  And then left in the next weather window, which seem to come every 4 to 6 days.

People will say, oh but they won't know if they could get off safely...Sorry, you could have said that a year ago, and if that was paralyzing, then don't go.

I really believe future DXpeditions of this magnitude will need to deliver first, fund second.  The pay me up front to help me go model has just died in my opinion.

I hope they are safe getting off and get home.  However, next time, if safe is the ultimate goal, just stay home, that's safe too.

Ed  N1UR

My vote is for Ed to be the team-lead on the next Bouvet activation where he can show the world the correct way to fund and execute a DX-pedition.

Paul, W9AC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 14, 2023, 04:33:07 AM
Be careful what you wish for...
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 14, 2023, 05:02:47 AM
With Covid pretty much over it will be good to see where all the big NA groups go to,

I looked at the K4M video on Midway last night on YouTube, F&W hold the keys to a lot of interesting locations, maybe it time for the NA guys to try to open some doors again,

KH3 and KH7K are two that badly need a 100k + operation from,
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 14, 2023, 05:20:26 AM

What bothered me about this DXpedition was the extremely poor decisions on bands used, communications through their official channels - not - and bailing out so early.

Did you see the sea conditions in the last pictures?  Did they look hard to land in and beyond what you would have expected in planning?  I hope not.  Why did they bail and not build up further.  $750,000 worth of people funded that, just sayin....

Instead they bailed early.  Could have easily doubled down yesterday and today.  And then left in the next weather window, which seem to come every 4 to 6 days.


Ed  N1UR


They took 5 large diesel gensets and one small Honda invertor 2000w generator that runs off of gasoline .   The Honda quit working yesterday and the team has also stated they were running out of fuel for it. Remember what gas they brought was allocated for the zodiacs which they need to get on and off Bouvet.   They found out that their plan to transport the diesel generators to the island was not going work.   Staying any longer was not going to be an option with the generator situation.   

Gino - KE8KMX
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 14, 2023, 05:23:12 AM

And one must recognise one's limitations and set one's expectations accordingly.
Unfortunately, the expectations were set very high, with the Contest-competitive station that was planned, and everybody with a bit of wire and a transceiver *expected* to make it into the 3Y0J log. It surely would have been a wonderful thing for the plans to have been fully realised, and >>100,000 QSO in the log. But those without a pretty decent station were mostly left disappointed with what the team managed. For those, I guess it would have made no difference if they had *not* managed to get on the island and set up anything. I feel their disappointment.

I'm one with a smaller "average" station who managed to get in the log. I've had multiple opportunities to have a larger station but have a yard full of trees and a small lot that say otherwise (I've passed on two free full complete towers & beams...). I had to pay attention to the best band, I built and tossed up a delta loop & 4:1 balun to improve my chances, focused on greyline, used pileup skills from years of chasing dx and just a bit of luck with dqrm and I made it in. With a small station you gotta be willing to think outside the box, keep trying different things - and never, ever give up.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 14, 2023, 05:29:36 AM
Thanks to N0UN, W2IRT, WO7R, and VK3OD for injecting some common sense into the discussion.  Lots of things went wrong and, and somewhat amazingly, a number of things went right.  Improvisation saved the day, although not for everyone.  Giving all those with "100w to a wire" a QSO was always a fantasy.  Working DX at this level requires skill, preparation and, unfortunately for some, serious hardware.  Or at least modest hardware optimized.  Despite best intentions, welfare DXing often isn't successful.  There's always those who are ill-prepared or just can't seem to figure it out.  The guys on the far end aren't always going to be able to compensate for your shortcomings.

Do you have antennas up for the bands the DX chooses to operate?  Do you know CW well enough to copy your call at 30 wpm?  Are you willing to drag your sorry ass from bed at the crack of dawn to listen for that short, unusual opening?  Repeatedly?  Do you have your rig interfaced with your computer and do you actually know how to operate FT8?  These are things you get sorted before the DXpediton.  If you didn't work 3Y0J, at least absorb some lessons from your failure.

Last time I checked, DXing is a competitive activity.  That means there is inherently winners and losers.  If you lost, analyze your operation and decide where your shortcomings lie.  Decide not to lose next time and compete at a higher level.  Sometimes it's hard and sometimes it's damn near impossible.  Compensate, improve, but remember; there's no guarantees and someone else ain't gonna do it for you.  I can already hear the protestations.  But, but, but, I can't...

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 14, 2023, 05:35:43 AM
Quote
I'm one with a smaller "average" station who managed to get in the log. I've had multiple opportunities to have a larger station but have a yard full of trees and a small lot that say otherwise (I've passed on two free full complete towers & beams...). I had to pay attention to the best band, I built and tossed up a delta loop & 4:1 balun to improve my chances, focused on greyline, used pileup skills from years of chasing dx and just a bit of luck with dqrm and I made it in. With a small station you gotta be willing to think outside the box, keep trying different things - and never, ever give up.
congratulations sir great effort.

re qrp i think s saw wg5g work them i could be wrong.
im seeing reports of 19000 qso' with the ft8 contacts thats a pretty good number if there wasn't so much hype re 200 000 qso's

i must thank this group of people on here because i have learnt so much about dxing from here.
im in suburbia my tower is 9m high and a small block  i have 400w in cw and 100w in ft8 i was never concerned with them hearing me i was struggling to hear them. but its amazing what you can do with 100 watts i spent 2022 barefoot and it was fun i worked 220 dxcc so it wasnt that bad 39 zones.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 14, 2023, 05:52:53 AM

 I've had multiple opportunities to have a larger station but have a yard full of trees


I used to also.   Now I have a small tower, yagis and fewer leaves to rake :-)

John K5MO
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1VT on February 14, 2023, 06:14:04 AM
I have 0.3 acres and six trees in the middle of suburbia.  I can walk to McDonalds in ten minutes!
Two compromises with my station are long feedlines and non-resonant antennas.  I have about 150 feet of feedline going to my 12M collinear that also works on 30M for working  into those rare South Atlantic entities.  It is quieter near the property line a hundred feet from my house so I run long feedlines so my station hears better.  There is too much tree foliage to run a full size 30M dipole and not run into issues with wire touching the trees, so I use a shorter 40ft end to end 12M collinear on 30. 
I tried trimming the foliage back with a tree saw but the branch I wanted to cut was just outside my reach.
Being short allows me to run elevated radials in my back yard that are just 5ft above ground.

So far I've gotten lucky trusting my CW skills to navigate those gnarly pileups.  Confirming Bouvet would push my CW totals to 325/321 current.

Zak W1VT
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 14, 2023, 08:10:45 AM
Here are short-path bearings over Bouvet's topography from Cape Fie to various NA locations:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hccJFCGztkU/YRG2vkMU3fI/AAAAAAAAIa4/7olXXKeJM2sH0u6ubOo5qUTCkoYvnQ-rwCLcBGAsYHQ/s16000/bouvet.jpg)

I will be interested in seeing how the topography affects propagation.

73 Rich KB8GAE

As expected the topology played a huge role. It appears from the comments I have seen that some areas of NA had no short path at all.

I was able to copy them on 30 meters between 2200z and 2400z and again from 0430z to 0730z on an OCF dipole at 30 feet.

I would have loved to observe what they could have done with beam antennas as originally planed.

Fingers crossed everyone and everything gets back on the ship safely and they have smooth sailing to South Africa.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 14, 2023, 08:31:17 AM

That's odd.  I was thinking it was a DXpedition that gave us the CHANCE at working them.  Just like most DXpeditions do.

Maybe some were looking for Participation Trophy's I guess.

For many of us, we'll look back years from now & smile how our preparation, skill & moxie overcame all the DQRM to log 3Y0J.

NØUN

The problem with your assessment is that it is based on your Location.
I suggest you take a good look at Google Earth (The Software Prg).
If you set it up with a Sun Simulation you can see why the West coast did so well and the East Coast had such a hard time.

As Europe would loose propagation the East coast would open up.  The problem was that 3Y0J always decided to take a break at that point for 2-3 hour Dinner or rest, I guess the spare operators just stared at the radios!

 When they got back there was typically a 15 Minutes opening that was by now very weak.  In a few more minutes they would start working the West coast.  The Grey line was optimal for the Mid West  to West coast at that point.

The further South you lived, like down to Florida the Signal was almost non existent except for brief (15 minute windows) and Long Path which was the best option just did not work.

 Other openings like late at night was The East coast vs Eu and JA stations.  Looking at their pie chart its obvious who had the huge advantage. 

The question of a good station and skill will typically play a big part in making the contact but in this case the 100 Watts and a 2000 Ft wall blocking there path it was beyond skill or station quality for most of us and fell into the realm of luck.  Unfortunately luck is something that comes in a very limited quantity.

Lastly someone mentioned the OP using a pattern on CW.
There was no pattern after the first day or two!  The Ops where picking the loudest and easiest stations to work. In a desperate need to get in the numbers they skipped anybody that was weak and only headed for the strong stations.   I know this because like N0UN on the first day or two of CW I had them ask me MJ?,,,,MJR?  and then before I could make a third reply they would move on to the next person.
The following day the OP was just calling through the stations like lightning, there was no "?" marks being asked again.  He was just going for the loud ones and dam the locations outside the EU and JA that could not pound in a signal.

So you can keep believing that it was your great Skill, but I know for a fact that it was location based.  I clocked in over 70 hours of listening time on this one and got caught up in the F/H stupidity as well as a CW call that did go through to 3Y7THA but is now in limbo.

You just cannot work a station that you can barely hear while dealing with a dozen stations QRMing him and another dozen calling on top of your own signal.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 14, 2023, 08:49:55 AM
I listened periodically (from Florida) to them operating CW and could easily discern a listening pattern when they were working the US. Never heard them ransoming tuning around. Of course I wasn’t constantly listening but what you describe is atypical of both what I heard and how most people run pileups.

There is one pattern here - people who worked them think it was a reasonably successful operation. Those who didn’t, don’t…
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 14, 2023, 09:02:07 AM
You just cannot work a station that you can barely hear while dealing with a dozen stations QRMing him and another dozen calling on top of your own signal.
It's worse on 30m where you're dealing with a 200W limit (and there were a LOT of stations that were maybe using 200 Texas Watts out there). But sometimes you get lucky. They were very weak on 30 when I worked them and the DQRMers were quiet for just the needed few seconds. I was also able to narrow my K3s down to 50 Hz and play with the manual notch filter to get rid of anybody who wasn't perfectly zero-beat with the DX. Frustrating for sure, and luck was absolutely involved.

It might help your cause to get a 1x2 or a 2x1 callsign. It's easier for them to copy four characters than six. I run into this a lot, but I've been known by my present call since May 2002 so I'm probably not going to change it now. I would like to operate contests under a 2x1 or 1x2, however...especially SSB.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 09:02:34 AM
We'll argue a long time about this one.

What seems apparent to me is that after three pretty expensive trips, a great fraction of the DX community had no realistic shot at Bouvet.  There just weren't enough QSOs, world-wide, to keep those from more favored propagation from lapping just about all of it up.

If there was enough time -- if they got to (say) 50,000 QSOs and therefore 20,000 unique calls, it would have meant, as it does on other expeditions, that the entire DXing community had a shot.

Well, they didn't.  But the "DXing must be as hard as possible, especially if I get mine and you didn't" crowd can rejoice.  You got what you wanted.

Unfortunately, I don't see tremendous virtue here, necessarily.  By the time we get done analyzing it, there probably will be the lingering suspicion that a lot of folks, no matter what their experience level is, no matter how large the tower, never made the cut.  Nor were they ever going to unless the Q rate tripled or quadrupled. 

This has been true of many expeditions.  But most have some other group going back.  Bouvet is different.

Bouvet is just plain hard to do.  We had one expedition that turned out a decent number of QSOs.  In 1989.  Everything else has been of this sort.  Limited QSOs from a limited station.

It's just not clear that everyone, especially after 1990, has had a fair shot at it.  And, maybe cannot given the Norwegian base is now unavailable.

FWIW, I did work it SP on the West Coast on 30.

Just as a separate point of reference, Monaco, 3A, is actually quite difficult from the US West Coast.  It is 137th, world wide, but 24th from here (says Clublog).  There are many expeditions there, but it is still true that there are mountains between us in W7 and the short path.  The only thing that keeps it from being a top 20 from this area (it almost is) is that there are enough expeditions so we can get it long path on a couple of bands, at least.  But nobody in my neighborhood works all of the 3As that show up.  Not even close.

To a degree, we might measure the availability of an entity by how much the least favored region gets through and whether there are enough locations so that "least favored" can vary if it is local mountains that are the problem.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 14, 2023, 09:06:40 AM
It was no cake walk here in NW EU, I am closer to NA than parts of EU, So when we got our peak they often had there CQ NA ears on and we were screwed,

30m was the big miss for me, I thought I had a good Q but was NIL, I also found a 10-20dB local QRM source yesterday but they never turned up again to see if it made the difference,

Maybe in 20-30 years I will get to try again, If I (and the hobby) make it that far  ;D
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 14, 2023, 09:11:30 AM
One big factor that helps you lot on the West Coast is that is where a lot the cash comes from so you always get extra chances, not too often you see anyone calling CQ EU these days no matter where they DX is from,

Trevor
EI2GLB


 
We'll argue a long time about this one.

What seems apparent to me is that after three pretty expensive trips, a great fraction of the DX community had no realistic shot at Bouvet.  There just weren't enough QSOs, world-wide, to keep those from more favored propagation from lapping just about all of it up.

If there was enough time -- if they got to (say) 50,000 QSOs and therefore 20,000 unique calls, it would have meant, as it does on other expeditions, that the entire DXing community had a shot.

Well, they didn't.  But the "DXing must be as hard as possible, especially if I get mine and you didn't" crowd can rejoice.  You got what you wanted.

Unfortunately, I don't see tremendous virtue here, necessarily.  By the time we get done analyzing it, there probably will be the lingering suspicion that a lot of folks, no matter what their experience level is, no matter how large the tower, never made the cut.  Nor were they ever going to unless the Q rate tripled or quadrupled. 

This has been true of many expeditions.  But most have some other group going back.  Bouvet is different.

Bouvet is just plain hard to do.  We had one expedition that turned out a decent number of QSOs.  In 1989.  Everything else has been of this sort.  Limited QSOs from a limited station.

It's just not clear that everyone, especially after 1990, has had a fair shot at it.  And, maybe cannot given the Norwegian base is now unavailable.

FWIW, I did work it SP on the West Coast on 30.

Just as a separate point of reference, Monaco, 3A, is actually quite difficult from the US West Coast.  It is 137th, world wide, but 24th from here (says Clublog).  There are many expeditions there, but it is still true that there are mountains between us in W7 and the short path.  The only thing that keeps it from being a top 20 from this area (it almost is) is that there are enough expeditions so we can get it long path on a couple of bands, at least.  But nobody in my neighborhood works all of the 3As that show up.  Not even close.

To a degree, we might measure the availability of an entity by how much the least favored region gets through and whether there are enough locations so that "least favored" can vary if it is local mountains that are the problem.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 09:16:59 AM
For those playing along at home, here are the Clublog continental stats (with the FT8 QSOs still to come).

FT8 might strengthen the NA numbers.  A bit.

Africa2021.7
Asia383333.1
Europe519844.9
North America177315.3
Oceania1401.2
South America4263.7
Totals11572100.0

So, maybe NA got extra chances because of the donations, but it is not, in this evidence, a big difference maker.

And this doesn't break down East Coast versus West Coast either.  Going by what's posted here, maybe 2/3 of the NA numbers, maybe even more than that, are West Coast.  I don't know; maybe we never will.

But a lot of good hams that post here regularly and hams most of us would regard as good DXers got shut out.  So did a lot of my friends on the "favored" West Coast.

Certainly, those Right Thinking Hams in NA that refuse FT8 really struggled.  We'll see if FT8 was a big difference maker or not.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 14, 2023, 09:37:55 AM
Certainly, those Right Thinking Hams in NA that refuse FT8 really struggled.  We'll see if FT8 was a big difference maker or not.

Well, I am truly West Coast, just being a few miles inland.  LP was indeed a powerful weapon.  From here, a hex beam on 17 and a dipole on 30 were enough to get in the log, with some modest RX antennas.  I worked hard on my station but in the end, none of the improvements I made actually mattered.  In fact, my 30 meter QSO on the first night was with an antenna I put up hours before after seeing Col's tweet that they would be on 30 all night.

But I wanted to share my personal experience about mode: CW was way, way easier than FT8 for me.  I did not call for more than 5 minutes for either of the CW QSOs I made.  I called for hours on FT8 at 500+ watts without any success at all.  Same station, totally different results.  Part of it may have been propagation, but I also think FT8 is going or has gone full "red ocean" and it is not the path to easy success it may have once been.  Everyone is welcome to their own interpretation of the situation, but my personal belief is that the FT8 operations drew away callers and made it easier for the CW guys.  For the near future, perhaps, if you can hear the DX at all on CW, it may be an easier shot.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W5WS on February 14, 2023, 09:47:15 AM
For those playing along at home, here are the Clublog continental stats (with the FT8 QSOs still to come).

FT8 might strengthen the NA numbers.  A bit.

Africa2021.7
Asia383333.1
Europe519844.9
North America177315.3
Oceania1401.2
South America4263.7
Totals11572100.0

So, maybe NA got extra chances because of the donations, but it is not, in this evidence, a big difference maker.

And this doesn't break down East Coast versus West Coast either.  Going by what's posted here, maybe 2/3 of the NA numbers, maybe even more than that, are West Coast.  I don't know; maybe we never will.

But a lot of good hams that post here regularly and hams most of us would regard as good DXers got shut out.  So did a lot of my friends on the "favored" West Coast.

Certainly, those Right Thinking Hams in NA that refuse FT8 really struggled.  We'll see if FT8 was a big difference maker or not.

Filtered by zone, and this doesn't include FT8 or anything after their first log posting:
Zone 3 459 QSO's
Zone 4 516 QSO's
Zone 5 669 QSO's 

That adds up to 1644, a few less than W07R's numbers.  West coast had the least of the 3 zones that cover the mainland US and Canada and East coast had the most.  It'll be interesting to see what it is after the complete log is posted. 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 09:55:34 AM
Quote
but my personal belief is that the FT8 operations drew away callers and made it easier for the CW guys.

I think that is very likely true and not just for Bouvet.  I've been pointing this out to the FT8 haters for a while now.  FT8 is actually their friend.

There are just more people doing FT8, which means more competition.

All the stats I have suggest that CW is not really being hurt by FT8.  If anyone is "losing" it is SSB and that is in percentage terms, not necessarily absolute ones.

My own personal preference these days is:

FT8 or CW   (toss up, depends on DX' practices -- definitely CW for Bouvet)
CW or FT8  (depends on the above)
SSB
Conventional RTTY

All based on the utilitarian question:  "What gets me in the log?"

I tend to find split RTTY pileups the worst.  I can still get through, but for me, it is far more elaborate and difficult to do so, especially for larger splits.  They are now quite rare as FT8 has displaced RTTY even more than SSB.

Too many SSB pileups are straight power games (the DX always works "up 5" no matter what they say over the air) and are just not fun.  Very little real craft.  But, if that's the game, that's what you play.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 10:00:22 AM
Quote
Filtered by zone, and this doesn't include FT8 or anything after their first log posting:
Zone 3 459 QSO's
Zone 4 516 QSO's
Zone 5 669 QSO's

That adds up to 1644, a few less than W07R's numbers.  West coast had the least of the 3 zones that cover the mainland US and Canada and East coast had the most.

Excellent work that I should have done.

Quick googling suggests that east of the Mississippi has 58 per cent of the population, which suggests that correcting by population, if someone troubled to figure it out, won't make that big a difference either.

So, chances were roughly equal throughout North America after all.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0RS on February 14, 2023, 10:03:09 AM
Quote
But the "DXing must be as hard as possible, especially if I get mine and you didn't" crowd can rejoice.  You got what you wanted.

Not sure who is rejoicing or "got what they wanted, or want it to be as hard as possible."  I don't think anyone in the forum is happy that 3Y0J couldn't make 50k+ QSOs or that anyone got shut out.  The reality is sometimes Schlitz happens, and those best equipped (however you define that) salvaged from the operation what best they could.  Rather an insulting statement, really.

Quote
And this doesn't break down East Coast versus West Coast either.

Actually there's more to the NA than right and left.  There's VE too and XE.  All areas with their particular propagation characteristics.  N0UN and I, and I'm sure others, were actually kind of lucky on this one to be in the middle, usually a disadvantage.  Close enough to the east to work them on 30m SP and close enough to the west to work them 17m LP.

Quote
Certainly, those Right Thinking Hams in NA that refuse FT8 really struggled.  We'll see if FT8 was a big difference maker or not.

I sure didn't get them on FT8.  One of the reasons I was looking forward to this expedition was for a digital contact (and yes, some bandfills).  I've had 3Y on CW and SSB or 23+ years.  Likely never have another shot at digital, but we'll see.  Would be nice to make digital HR someday, but won't fall on my sword if I don't.  I've got 339 on CW and if I sit around waiting for little Kim to a approve a DXpedition with CW, I'm going to get pretty bored.  But at least FT8 gives me something to do in the meantime.  My personal opinion of FT8's ability to get thru when all else fails or to give some hypothetical "little guy" a better opportunity, is "horse hockey."  Give me CW any day.  If you want a better chance, learn CW.

BTW, there's CW logs that aren't up yet too, not just FT8.  Hopefully later today.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 14, 2023, 10:03:24 AM
But the "DXing must be as hard as possible, especially if I get mine and you didn't" crowd can rejoice.  You got what you wanted.
I personally never understood this whole gatekeeper mentality. We DXers should strive to lift all boats equally if we can. The thought of rejoicing that I made the log but you didn't is anathema to me. I want to see your call in the log (but of course I want to see mine first :D :D). My good friend Steve, WX2S earned his 5B-WAZ last November after less than 10 years. An incredible feat, and I was still holding at 198 at that point. Was I envious? Oh HELL yes, but I was glad he got it.

In my other hobby, Jeeping, there is absolutely none of that attitude. When our club is on a trail everybody helps everybody else, unconditionally. If I get bogged and I have nothing to winch against someone will pull me out, and if I make it up but someone else doesn't I'll help winch them up. Of course we all have our boxes full of recovery gear (shackles, snatch blocks, Maxtrax boards, tree savers, tow straps, kinetic ropes, etc) which are the Jeeping equivalent of rigs with tight filtering, directional arrays, IF DSP, and so on. We provide the means so we can make our own luck in case there's nobody else around to help us.

there probably will be the lingering suspicion that a lot of folks, no matter what their experience level is, no matter how large the tower, never made the cut.  Nor were they ever going to unless the Q rate tripled or quadrupled.
I don't necessarily agree. If their skills were decent and they had a big tower and plenty of aluminum in the air up high the only things that would have prevented them from getting a QSO with Bouvet were lack of BIC time, a refusal to work them on FT8 (or CW), being badly hindered by terrain that's worse than my own, or just plain old bad luck. And if someone was really desperate for a shot at Bouvet there was nothing stopping them from paying airtime charges on RHR, and that was essentially a guaranteed QSO if you're prepared to spend enough. If I were in an antenna-restricted community and needed 3Y0J for a DX milestone (HR#1, for example), you're darned tootin' I'd be calling from the biggest, baddest remote station I could get on if I had no station of my own any more.

It's just not clear that everyone, especially after 1990, has had a fair shot at it.
They most certainly have had a shot at it, but they may have chosen not to do what was necessary to get in the log. That may have been involuntary (work, family/children, illness, etc), or apathy—not putting up a tower when they had the chance, electing to move into a CC&R restricted community, or buying a nicer car instead of bigger Yagis, etc. But opportunities were there. They weren't great opportunities, but getting in the log was possible, and thousands of people have done it since 1990.

DXing at this level is not for the faint of heart or the weak of wallet. You need to be dedicated to the craft, prepared to invest a decent sum in gear, and put in a lot of time working the lesser operations to gain the wisdom needed to make the right decisions when that ultra-rare one comes on. Sure you can get lucky with 100W and a wire, but a 50 or 70 foot tower and good Yagis will be almost a guarantee of success on at least one band and one mode.

Again going back to my other hobby, my Jeep is the G5RV of off-roaders. I can take light to moderate trails but I can't do the hard stuff. If I want to make it down a black or red trail I'll need to spend more than what a Luso Tower and an array of OptiBeam or JK long boom monobanders would cost, and know my rig well enough to not roll it, break an axle, or blow up the T-case. I can't compete with the buggy/V8 guys, or even those with Rubicons on 38s and lifts. Meaning I can't do the off-road equivalent of working the Bouvets and P5s on 9 bands. If I want to play in that league then it's about $80,000 to start, and goes up from there—way up!. And I'd still need to learn the driving techniques to scale a vertical wall that all the hardware in the world won't provide.

We all pick our hobbies. Some are more expensive right off the hop than others, but whatever it is, the steeper the challenge the more time and money will need to be invested. And to be at the very top, the amount of practice and equipment you'll need will be quite large. There's always a chance that a golfer can hit a hole in one, but the odds of hit happening are much greater if they've practiced and played for years, and taken lessons. Bouvet was our Hole In One.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 14, 2023, 10:08:05 AM
It might help your cause to get a 1x2 or a 2x1 callsign. It's easier for them to copy four characters than six. I run into this a lot, but I've been known by my present call since May 2002 so I'm probably not going to change it now. I would like to operate contests under a 2x1 or 1x2.....


I was going to mention this as I know that it's good advice.

I was WB5OAU for a long time, but about 15 yrs ago I made use of a rare opportunity*  to select a 1x2 call to replace it. I had about 40 calls to choose from and since I knew it really mattered in CW, chose the one I have.   

I can't emphasize enough the difference it made . While I'm not that serious about DX, I enjoy chasing difficult ones and I am 100% certain that the swap to a good CW call has helped a ton.

John K5MO


(* "try this one secret trick to get a good 1x2 OT call!" which is no longer available to use!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 10:08:22 AM
Quote
Not sure who is rejoicing or "got what they wanted, or want it to be as hard as possible." 

You do read here, don't you?

There are those that complain, bitterly, about any proposal for a rules change or any change to the lay of the land (like FT8) that they think makes DXing easier.

It's a regular feature around here.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K6OK on February 14, 2023, 10:18:36 AM
Filtered by zone, and this doesn't include FT8 or anything after their first log posting:
Zone 3 459 QSO's
Zone 4 516 QSO's
Zone 5 669 QSO's 

That adds up to 1644, a few less than W07R's numbers.  West coast had the least of the 3 zones that cover the mainland US and Canada and East coast had the most.  It'll be interesting to see what it is after the complete log is posted.

If you adjust those numbers by ham population density actually Zone 3 overperformed.  In CQ WW CW, for example, there were 375 logs from Z3, 829 from Z4 and 951 from Z5.  This is a better proxy for serious hams versus total license numbers which are skewed by people who get tech licenses but who never get on the air.   
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 14, 2023, 10:20:48 AM
FT8 logs are posted.  For the sake of many, I hope more are still on the way.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 14, 2023, 10:23:24 AM
I'm only QRV on a single band: 20 meters. That is my self imposed limitation to keep my setup simple and inexpensive. This 3Y0J operation was not easy for me as they did not favor operating on my favourite band (who would have thought  ;D ;D ;D ). However, they did eventually come on 20 and spent a couple of hours there on a single mode: FT8. It took me exactly one hour: calling them, changing my transmit frequency, being ready to manually jump below +1000. I got very very lucky. Out of the total of 253 QSOs they made on 20m, and out of only 17 NA stations on 20m, one QSO was mine.  ;D ;D ;D

The QSO happened at 0820z (3:20 my local) and to hear them the best, my antenna was not pointed LP or SP, but due south, azimuth 180 degrees.

Thanks guys for being there.

Marvin VE3VEE

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 10:25:24 AM
Quote
DXing at this level is not for the faint of heart or the weak of wallet. You need to be dedicated to the craft, prepared to invest a decent sum in gear, and put in a lot of time working the lesser operations to gain the wisdom needed to make the right decisions when that ultra-rare one comes on. Sure you can get lucky with 100W and a wire, but a 50 or 70 foot tower and good Yagis will be almost a guarantee of success on at least one band and one mode.

These things certainly help and help a lot. No serious person disputes this.

But even this is no guarantee.  There's a lot of hams who took up DXing after the year 1990 (QC members!), have done everything you suggest, and do not have Bouvet.  They might not have Heard, either.  Heard was pretty successful.  It is still #24 world-wide only a handful of years later.  Clearly, demand was not satisfied even by that extensive expedition.

We all of us want to under-rate the luck factor in life.

If we have a DXpedition that makes about 20,000 unique QSOs it is generally regarded as having given everyone a fair shot at an ATNO.  That's what I get out of the comments here, anyway.  And, indeed, the "ultra rare" one usually takes a dive in the Most Wanted standings for a couple of years when that happens.

But more limited expeditions don't really meet the total demand.  It is very likely that quite a few hams that needed Bouvet, including not a few with good skills and fine stations did not get through.  Some will even admit it here.  It does the hobby no good to crow when I got through and folks like that did not.  Or to claim they were not dedicated.  You don't know that, I don't know that.  All we know, is that with a limited number of Qs, not everyone won.

If you were in the hospital or out of town for work, or looking for a job, you were SOL for Bouvet.  You may sneer that they were inadequately prepared or inadequately dedicated.  But, get serious.  Being QRV every day for 32 years?, which is the time between the last big timer and this one.  That's not real world in any sense.  Someone, a lot of someones, missed out for reasons not realistically under their control.  Did they really lack dedication?  Or, were they just unlucky?

Certainly, the luck factor is true of many of the locals here.  Based on what I have heard so far, I would say that many (most?) of the very best local DXers here did get through.  But many of those I would rate as "the deserving", whose skills and station may be good, but not the very best, did not.  Hams that get through on expedition after expedition.  Not this one.  Wasn't long enough or strong enough.

This idea that only the best deserve HR or #1 HR is ratifying scarcity that is somewhat artificial.  If we could sponsor annual 10 million dollar expeditions, and we probably could if we were not so disorganized and cantankerous, then we could manage to get 75K Q operations to places like Bouvet and Peter I maybe once a decade rather than barely and inadequately once every 20 years or so.

Whether you have Bouvet in your pocket is still going to largely depend on whether you worked the 1989 operation (which could be worked by popgun stations) or whether you did not.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 14, 2023, 10:27:44 AM
Stats and breakdown:

https://clublog.org/charts/?c=3Y0J#r

Select "statistics"
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KA3S on February 14, 2023, 10:33:04 AM
Whether you have Bouvet in your pocket is still going to largely depend on whether you worked the 1989 operation (which could be worked by popgun stations) or whether you did not.

++THIS++
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 10:36:44 AM
Again, for those playing along at home that won't look it up:

Africa30801.7
Asia645736.2
Europe750942.1
North America248413.9
Oceania38202.1
South America69003.9
Totals17830100.0

Not a big difference from the pre-FT8 numbers.  NA actually lost out, a bit, in relative terms.

The big number is this one:  8446 "unique calls". 

That's an upper bound on ATNOs.  The stats on who improved in ATNO or number of bands and so on is only for Clublog members, so the 1669 it gives for ATNO there may be as few as 1/3 to 1/2 of the number of actual ATNOs given out.  Why?  Obviously, because not nearly everyone uses Clublog; not even active DXers.  1669*3 is 5007.  I don't know what the ratio is and for an operation as small as this, the general number may even be skewed a bit.  But, probably something in the 3,000 to 5,000 true ATNOs is probably about right.  That's going to be a lot of misses by a lot of people who we normally consider "the deserving" around here.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 14, 2023, 10:39:11 AM
I wonder how many of the "worked on 6 bands" were on the island/boat.  :-)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 14, 2023, 10:39:35 AM
When we all live in a land of opportunity, some still think it’s the land of entitlement even as it applies to working a DX pedition.

When did we become the “I needed and therefore am entitled to and deserve it” hobby?

The people I know who worked Bouvet didn’t have big antennas or power in excess of that allowed and some with far less so maybe introspection might be more constructive than whining.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 10:54:07 AM
Quote
When did we become the “I needed and therefore am entitled to and deserve it” hobby?

Who really says that?

The question is one of fairness.  Well, life is unfair.  But that doesn't mean we have to organize our hobbies to maximize the amount of unfairness there is.

As I just said, if we were organized enough to do one 10 million dollar expedition a year (something we have never done, but arguably could if we were really organized and really cared) we would be talking a lot less about "entitlement" and heaping other abuse on those that didn't get through, because most of us, even with modest stations, would have a real shot.  In 1989, that's exactly how it was.  A lot of marginal stations got through that didn't this time.  Whose virtue was that?  Not us.  It was the DXpedition that actually managed to set up and rack us all up to big numbers.

Instead, we have this nebulous situation now where some achieve, some don't, and we none of us ever want to concede that after working diligently and skillfully in a 3 hour CW pileup and getting through that there was any luck involved in the outcome.

Well, get serious.  In an operation this small, there was.  Yes, the better operators and the better stations had better odds.  But it was just that -- better odds.  A small station may have needed to do the equivalent of rolling snake eyes.  I just needed to roll a seven. 

But a major difference between me and several others that failed is not always dedication, more skill, or better tools -- some of it is just plain luck.  Luck that equalizes with more and longer operations.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NO9E on February 14, 2023, 10:54:37 AM
The expedition would have made perhaps 20% more qsos if not for deliberate jamming. I think a network needs to be established to identify jammers almost in real time.

I worked them on 30m early morning when jammers were asleep.

Ignacy NO9E
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 14, 2023, 11:08:06 AM
The expedition would have made perhaps 20% more qsos if not for deliberate jamming. I think a network needs to be established to identify jammers almost in real time.

I worked them on 30m early morning when jammers were asleep.

Ignacy NO9E

Did you work them long or short path?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 14, 2023, 11:13:59 AM
A lot of people are freaking out on the West Coast mailing lists about missing FT8 QSOs.  Seems likely that at least one more batch is coming.  In particular, no 30 meter FT8 QSOs have been uploaded.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 14, 2023, 11:31:41 AM
These things certainly help and help a lot. No serious person disputes this. But even this is no guarantee.  There's a lot of hams who took up DXing after the year 1990 (QC members!), have done everything you suggest, and do not have Bouvet.  They might not have Heard, either.  Heard was pretty successful.
...
This idea that only the best deserve HR or #1 HR is ratifying scarcity that is somewhat artificial.
It's not artificial at all. Honor Roll, especially today, is the most rarified air in DXing. It does take dedication, skill, and at least a moderately good station to achieve it.

There have been four successful Bouvet activations as far as I know in the last 25 years; 3Y5X, Chuck Brady, Petrus (3Y0E) and now 3Y0J. If anybody who was active during all those four times with a half-decent station (I'm thinking a simple "tribander at 50 feet and a kW") couldn't make it in the log on at least one band, one mode, then their skills needed honing or they needed better alerting of DX openings. I was just a journeyman DXer when I got Bouvet (tribander at 65', the same antenna I have today for 10-15-20m and 1200W), and I worked Petrus—on phone— at the bottom of the solar cycle, not with a flux nearing 200. Chuck Brady was there for, what, three months? A dedicated DXer with a tribander should have been able to get through at least once. And 3Y5X, if you were around back then and didn't work it, it was your own fault.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 14, 2023, 11:35:46 AM
Quote
When did we become the “I needed and therefore am entitled to and deserve it” hobby?

Who really says that?
That implication is clear in what you wrote
Quote
The question is one of fairness.  Well, life is unfair.  But that doesn't mean we have to organize our hobbies to maximize the amount of unfairness there is.


Sounds like you want to argue with yourself. None of us are entitled to anything, much less a expedition contact and labeling that as unfair is semantic crap meaning the same thing but with a different label. Quantifying unfairness is ludicrous.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 14, 2023, 11:41:58 AM

It's not artificial at all. Honor Roll, especially today, is the most rarified air in DXing. It does take dedication, skill, and at least a moderately good station to achieve it.

.

Sounds like a transparent attempt to minimize the accomplishment with the constant reference to “luck” and doing so by using the result of one expedition just because it failed to live up to some expectation. Silly!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 14, 2023, 12:26:21 PM
Quote
3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:
Team Co-Leader Ken LA7GIA says,
“We will start sailing tomorrow morning. We might take a tour around the island if wx is not too bad. All team is on board and equipment strapped for sailing to Cape Town. There are just some small items to strap inside the cabins. We might operate /MM. Our estimated ETA in Cape Town is 23 Feb. We plan to stay one night there and have a team dinner.
ALL logchecks shall be directed to QSL Manager Charles M0OXO. No team members have access to the log. They will not answer any requests. www.m0oxo.com”

Sounds like everyone and everything is safe back on the boat.  Phew.  Safe travels to the team.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 14, 2023, 12:26:42 PM
In my other hobby, Jeeping, there is absolutely none of that attitude. When our club is on a trail everybody helps everybody else, unconditionally. If I get bogged and I have nothing to winch against someone will pull me out, and if I make it up but someone else doesn't I'll help winch them up. Of course we all have our boxes full of recovery gear (shackles, snatch blocks, Maxtrax boards, tree savers, tow straps, kinetic ropes, etc) which are the Jeeping equivalent of rigs with tight filtering, directional arrays, IF DSP, and so on. We provide the means so we can make our own luck in case there's nobody else around to help us.


That may be true, but it's not equivalent. 

Other than letting someone operate your station to work rare DX, it's not the same.  You can't work the DX for someone else - well you can, but it's not legal nor moral. 

You can spot the QSX to help others, but even then that data is time sensitive. 

Other than providing moral support (and letting a friend operate your station), it's not the same as winching someone out of a mud pit.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NM6V on February 14, 2023, 12:29:19 PM
Looks like the 30m FT8 QSO's are missing from the log.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 14, 2023, 12:34:32 PM
I'm not sure how this turned to who should be deserving or entitled to working them. Either you did or you didn't work them for one reason or another. I did the best I could - based on knowing what they were able to setup and knowing the topology stations I tried my best by paying attention to greyline, setting up a wire antenna optimized for the band I thought gave me the best shot based on prior QSO's and gave it my all. I used what skills I have for chasing them in the cw pileups. My rig is 20 year old technology, an amp made in the 70's and I have wire antennas for HF. Did I do anything "deserving"? Was I any different, better or worse than the next ham trying to work them?  No idea... but I made it in the log. I did my best to do what it takes to hear them and work them.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 14, 2023, 12:35:13 PM
That may be true, but it's not equivalent. 

Other than letting someone operate your station to work rare DX, it's not the same.  You can't work the DX for someone else - well you can, but it's not legal nor moral.  You can spot the QSX to help others, but even then that data is time sensitive. 
Other than providing moral support (and letting a friend operate your station), it's not the same as winching someone out of a mud pit.
Moral support and chatting on the phone or Messenger really does help a lot. I've given that help and have gotten that help. Plus my station is always open to friends who want to come over and work an ultra-rare one—it's provided eight QSOs to Scarborough Reef and a handful of others over the years. But yes, they have to work the DX themselves.

But conversely in a recovery scenario, even if they're being winched out, the driver still has to steer and bump the skinny pedal at the right time, and unless they're pinned in the Jeep (been there, done that, never want to be there again) they're setting up their own rigging. But point taken.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2LO on February 14, 2023, 12:39:29 PM
  In assessing the availabilty of Bouvet over the years, the 2000-2001 one man 3Y0C operation by Chuck, N4BQW (SK), made slightly more than 16,000 QSOs over a period of around 3 months, largely SSB but with a signifiicant number of CW Qs, virtually all QRP 100w.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 14, 2023, 12:40:07 PM
Looks like the 30m FT8 QSO's are missing from the log.
Some of them are there, but hopefully there will be more to come.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7JQ on February 14, 2023, 12:55:40 PM
The team had an adventure, risking life and limb to give out ATNO's from a frigid, windy, penguin-poop infested, rocky hell-hole glacier. It didn't work out as planned...s**t happens. Yet they're being criticized by those safely in the confines of their warm homes. If you donated to the cause, nothing's guaranteed. Give them credit for trying, and a safe trip home.

It's only a hobby ::)....
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 14, 2023, 01:05:52 PM
Thought I did not work them on 15 cw, but the updated log shows that I did work them. 

No WARC antennas here, so never tried on 30.   

Good luck to all who are still waiting the final log update.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K3VAT on February 14, 2023, 01:26:41 PM
  In assessing the availabilty of Bouvet over the years, the 2000-2001 one man 3Y0C operation by Chuck, N4BQW (SK), made slightly more than 16,000 QSOs over a period of around 3 months, largely SSB but with a signifiicant number of CW Qs, virtually all QRP 100w.

Sorry W2LO, but QRP is 5W, not 100W.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 14, 2023, 01:53:52 PM
They uploaded another 5K worth of contacts to ClubLog including FT8.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 14, 2023, 01:53:55 PM
  In assessing the availabilty of Bouvet over the years, the 2000-2001 one man 3Y0C operation by Chuck, N4BQW (SK), made slightly more than 16,000 QSOs over a period of around 3 months, largely SSB but with a signifiicant number of CW Qs, virtually all QRP 100w.
Sorry W2LO, but QRP is 5W, not 100W.
Or in my case, 1,499.5W or fewer :D :D :D
(just kidding)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 14, 2023, 02:09:40 PM
Plus my station is always open to friends who want to come over and work an ultra-rare one—it's provided eight QSOs to Scarborough Reef and a handful of others over the years. But yes, they have to work the DX themselves. .
While I know that isn’t prohibited, I never could understand what sense of accomplishment derives from using someone else’s station like that.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 14, 2023, 02:56:44 PM
Plus my station is always open to friends who want to come over and work an ultra-rare one—it's provided eight QSOs to Scarborough Reef and a handful of others over the years. But yes, they have to work the DX themselves. .
While I know that isn’t prohibited, I never could understand what sense of accomplishment derives from using someone else’s station like that.
Easy. It's the operator's skill (or luck, if you believe in it) that ultimately makes the QSO. You sit in the chair in my QTH and I'm probably going to be at the other desk being a badass on Facebook or something while you work DX. To each their own.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 02:59:01 PM
Quote
None of us are entitled to anything, much less a expedition contact and labeling that as unfair is semantic crap meaning the same thing but with a different label. Quantifying unfairness is ludicrous.

No, it is not.

If it takes 30 years to make #1 HR in one era and 50 years in another era, something is very different about the eras.  Whether you choose to call it "unfair" or not is a matter of labelling.  I admitted life is unfair.  But, the degree of it does matter, especially in a made up playground like DXCC.  I remind you and everyone else again that the rules of DXCC didn't come from stone tablets written by the Old Man or even from De Soto.  They evolved over many years.  They have changed in the last five years, in fact.  They will change again.  For some reason or other.  Always have.

Moreover, the idea that we can't figure out what is happening, or decide if we need to make adjustments to keep the game in bounds if we do -- well, that's the ludicrous part.

DX is always changing.  Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.  But change it most certainly is.

And, we have a lot of data, now, on how realistic it is to get a Bouvet QSO.  The honest answer is:  Not very.

Just about every good thing that ever happens is that someone doesn't accept the status quo.  So, they measure it, figure it out, and adjust it themselves or gets everyone else to agree to an adjustment.

These things aren't very easy to figure out -- a #1 HR that takes 50 years to get versus a mere 30 is hard work to detect.  But, if that was going on now, I think we need to know.  I see some trends that way, others not.  But having countries on the books that seem to take multiple millions of dollars to make available to more than a well-equipped few seems to be a game that is a little out of hand.

Because, if making #1 HR or even HR is a sucker's game for most, people will figure it out, however fuzzily they do so, and drop out.  Too many years between ATNOs has a way of driving folks away.  One thing we used to have but no longer do is regular infusions of "new ones" like Swain's.  That went on for decades.  But, that's over pretty much.  So, the ones we have need to be regularly available.  People have a reasonable expectation that a hobby will deliver something resembling progress.

If people leave us because they are "lazy", well, who cares.  But if it is because that on balance, DXing and DXpeditioning in particular has become significantly tougher, and to too many of them unreasonable, that's a different animal.  One we all should be interested in.

I don't know about you, but I want a DX that thrives.  I do not want a game where the top prize is dangled and then years on,  too many conclude it is out of reach.  That is not "healthy".  Screw fairness, how about the health of the program?

Or, we can be really lazy and accept things as they are and watch the whole thing auger into the basement as the younger hams look at the lay of the land and, quietly, move on to other things.  If that is indeed going on. Thing is, those that figure it out just. . .leave. They don't often tell us so.  Especially on this forum.

We all of us know (or should know) hams who have concluded that it is a mug's game by now.  The question is:  Are there too many of them?  Will their ranks increase if we do the easy thing and sit on our haunches if conditions are, in fact, much harder?

When it comes to Bouvet, "I got mine".  So, I can be a real jerk about it if I want.  Cost me nothing to sneer at those that haven't got it.  But, as someone already on the HR and possessing 5BWAZ, I'm kind of on the upper end of things.  Maybe, just maybe, it pays for me to wonder about what people on the road to where I am are experiencing.  And whether they will get there.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 03:06:55 PM
Quote
Sounds like a transparent attempt to minimize the accomplishment with the constant reference to “luck” and doing so by using the result of one expedition just because it failed to live up to some expectation. Silly!

Since I have 5BWAZ and am on the HR, that wouldn't be smart now, would it?

The truth is, luck does play a role in this.  It is silly to pretend it doesn't.  Consider any old huge pileup.  Dozens of times, I have been very clever, figured out exactly where the DX is going to be and. . .someone else does the same and wins the Q. When our turn finally comes up, having done the same dance many times, we tend to forget the ones we missed before we got through.

But were any of them really less skillful?  I really was on the DX's listening frequency.  I had the same station, same amp, same rig, same tower.  Same skills.  Sometimes, the loss and the win are moments apart, so it isn't likely to be changing propagation.  But maybe it is a little QSB.  If so, that, too, is a form of luck also.

To put it another way, we're dealing with a natural phenomena and a huge and unknow cohort of competitors (many we can't hear but the DX does).  Of course there will be random elements to it.  The idea that every win is 100 percent skill is a nice fantasy.  But, it doesn't square with my observations over 30 plus years of it.

It also means that the larger the pileup, the larger element luck is going to play, even with persistence.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 14, 2023, 03:30:50 PM
But if it is because that on balance, DXing and DXpeditioning in particular has become significantly tougher, and to too many of them unreasonable, that's a different animal.  One we all should be interested in.

I don't know about you, but I want a DX that thrives.  I do not want a game where the top prize is dangled and then years on,  too many conclude it is out of reach.  That is not "healthy".  Screw fairness, how about the health of the program?
...
We all of us know (or should know) hams who have concluded that it is a mug's game by now.  The question is:  Are there too many of them?  Will their ranks increase if we do the easy thing and sit on our haunches if conditions are, in fact, much harder?
...
When it comes to Bouvet, "I got mine".  So, I can be a real jerk about it if I want.  Cost me nothing to sneer at those that haven't got it.  But, as someone already on the HR and possessing 5BWAZ, I'm kind of on the upper end of things.  Maybe, just maybe, it pays for me to wonder about what people on the road to where I am are experiencing.  And whether they will get there.
This is precisely correct, and what I have (frequently) stated, both here and to my DXAC representative. The program has to encourage new entrants and give them an attainable goal. If that cheapens the award in the eyes of the Cycle 19 set, then so be it. This is a long term program, and many won't be around in the long term. The game has to be brought up to modern standards. Professional sports all allow instant replays now and that caused a lot of butthurt, but in the end it's for the better.

Old timers had to listen, listen, tune, and listen, and to work the weak rare ones they had to use CW. But they had a crapton more "rare" entities to work and that were on regularly. Before Cycle 23, solar cycles had much higher peaks meaning more DX on 10 and 15 for them and greater chances for more rare ones. DXpeditions or DX travelers were younger and restrictions were few. Wanna activate Navassa? Sure, go climb the rope ladder and have at it for a few days. We have it easier in some ways today (FT8, clusters and instant news/info), but they had it easier in different ways (more entities to work, no environmental restrictions, active hams in the military in places like Johnston, Wake, and Midway, etc).
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 14, 2023, 03:38:27 PM
This is precisely correct, and what I have (frequently) stated, both here and to my DXAC representative.

And was your DXAC representative receptive?

I have not detected any reform momentum, but I haven't been paying attention either.  If this recent experience doesn't move the needle, it's hard to see anything moving it in the near future.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 14, 2023, 03:53:59 PM
This is precisely correct, and what I have (frequently) stated, both here and to my DXAC representative.
And was your DXAC representative receptive?

I have not detected any reform momentum, but I haven't been paying attention either.  If this recent experience doesn't move the needle, it's hard to see anything moving it in the near future.
There have been rumblings about a possible "DXCC 2025" package of revisions, similar to what we saw a quarter century ago. Whether it goes anywhere or not is anybody's guess, but it's worth reaching out. He was polite, at least :)

My thoughts would be reducing the separation distance to allow a small handful of new entities, removing anything from the active list that would not conform to current or new list criteria (goodbye Scarborough, SMOM, the U.N., and ITU HQ), the addition of an "inactives" list for entities that have not been activated for X years (20-25 would be a reasonable number) or that have been declared off-limits to human recreational activity by the governmental agencies that administer access to the islands. I would also add the ability for stations in a vessel anchored within 250m of land from places like Bouvet on a case-by-case basis, where landing would be exceptionally dangerous and is not likely to occur safely. Photo evidence and a sworn statement from the vessel's master would be required for those. Failing that, I would consider reducing the number of entities needed to get on the Honor Roll to 20 below the top level, rather than the current 10. Any or all of these would breathe new life into a moribund program that desperately needs an injection of fresh blood.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 14, 2023, 04:14:14 PM
Luck or deserving? I want both.

First few days of 3Y0 were frustrating. I barely slept and when I did it was in my radio shack. In a recliner. I went into the office late. I came home early. I listened and listened and listened. I could only hear them for a very brief time each day. A very small DX window.

On the morning that I worked them, I thought they might repeat a previous pattern. I was hoping so anyway.

I posted, in this forum, (post is still there) what I thought might happen in the next few minutes.

And It did.

Just a half hour after I had made my forecast - I got to make another post. I had worked 3Y0. Luck or deserving?

Both.

I did a lot of specific prep (in the proceeding month) to earn that Q but I needed the luck too.

The clock just ran out before many other deserving ops got the bit of luck they needed.


Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 14, 2023, 04:31:08 PM

 The program has to encourage new entrants and give them an attainable goal. If that cheapens the award in the eyes of the Cycle 19 set, then so be it.


It's The Modern Way and a real shame...
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 04:37:55 PM
Quote
It's The Modern Way and a real shame...

"The Modern Way" you describe is also known as "the Enlightenment".  You know, where we just didn't mindlessly repeat what happened in the last couple of centuries in this one.  "Because it was always done like that". 

Instead, we saw when conditions changed and. . .changed to account for it.

That's the "modern way" and has been since about Galileo.  Without it, there would be no radio, much less ham radio, to start with.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 14, 2023, 04:40:55 PM
Stupid.

Why don't we just give everybody a DXCC #1 plaque when they get their Technician License?

Nobody but a few of us care about DXCC anymore. Look at the FCC license numbers. HALF are Technicians. 50.2%.

https://www.arrl.org/fcc-license-counts (https://www.arrl.org/fcc-license-counts)

The only two reason they have a "Ham" license is because it makes owning that kicker (seatwarmer) legal and gives those special Preppers like folks to talk to.  They don't care about DX.  A non-Ham isn't even allowed to own an 27MHz amplification device.  I drove for years, I know this as FACT.  ARRL is also too stupid to figure out why they won't upgrade.  They don't want to upgrade, 10-4?

Leave the program alone.  You already got your Participation Trophy's with FT8.

Good grief.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 14, 2023, 04:44:36 PM
Quote
None of us are entitled to anything, much less a expedition contact and labeling that as unfair is semantic crap meaning the same thing but with a different label. Quantifying unfairness is ludicrous.

No, it is not.

Having read your last post in it’s entirety, I selected the point you are trying to make and deleted the irrelevant remainder and cliches.

Clearly, you disagree having said “no, it is not” but nothing presented thus far explains what you find erroneous about my post.

After reading and clearly understanding your thoughts, it seems you think people should be either:
1. Entitled to have what other earned for some peculiar reason(s) having labeled that concept as fairness’  or
2. The rules should be changed to make it easier/quicker/ less onerous to achieve a goal.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 14, 2023, 04:55:47 PM
The things I read here, I just shake my head.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 14, 2023, 05:09:10 PM
I'm not for dumbing down anything but how am I who is currently sitting at 327 worked going to get to 331 in the next 10 years,

There is nothing I need planned,

Look at what I need, you tell me where do you see any 5 of those in the next 10-20 years,

It's not my fault I'm not the wrong side of 50 or I only started dxing seriously in the last 10-15 years, you can't just say well I worked it so you have to, how can I work it if there is a political reason it is not allowed,

It's not a case of waiting for a group to decide to go there, most of these places are just off limits to everyone these days, and allowing 15 middle aged men to play radio for 2 weeks in not going to cut it anymore,

It's hard to know what the answer is but the ARRL need to keep everyone happy those on Honor roll and those who want to achieve it in a timely manner and under 30 years for anyone serious should be doable, if you told me that I could get 5 of these in the next 10 years I'd be happy but personally I don't even think I'll get 2, possibly FT/G and PY0T they rest are political,

Prefix   Entity   Most-wanted Rank
P5   DPRK (NORTH KOREA)   1
BS7H   SCARBOROUGH REEF   4
CE0X   SAN FELIX ISLANDS   5
BV9P   PRATAS ISLAND   6
KH7K   KURE ISLAND   7
KH3   JOHNSTON ISLAND   8
3Y/P   PETER 1 ISLAND   9
FT/G   GLORIOSO ISLAND   10
YV0           AVES ISLAND   12
PY0T   TRINDADE & MARTIM VAZ ISLANDS   17
EZ   TURKMENISTAN   23
YK   SYRIA   25
ZL8   KERMADEC ISLAND   27
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 14, 2023, 05:14:41 PM
Here's a good video by Josh from Ham Radio 2.0 calling out the KlusterKrabs, and talking about the Bouvet operation. I couldn't agree more. Watch to the very end, when he calls them out for what they are.

https://youtu.be/oDHu21x6iaI (https://youtu.be/oDHu21x6iaI)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1VT on February 14, 2023, 05:39:46 PM
I go lucky in that I took the afternoon off to try 17 meters.  When that didn't work I took an early evening nap to improve my chances on 30M.

I see  the difficulty in reaching Honor  Roll as incentive to listen to my doctors so I can have a long healthy life. 
I think I have a reasonable chance of reaching Honor Roll if I live another twenty years.

In the meantime I plan to do a lot of golfing and gardening to stay healthy.  I've been growing roses for 22 years and exhibiting them for 15 years.
My skill level has reached the point where I get requests from show organizers to bring trophy winning roses to a show in another state.
Golf is a lot of fun because I'm constantly improving my golf swing.  Golf has a ton of nuances to learn.  I've been learning how to assemble custom golf clubs!
There is a lot of interesting science to optimizing a club for a particular need.

Zak W1VT
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0AP on February 14, 2023, 06:23:10 PM
Certainly, those Right Thinking Hams in NA that refuse FT8 really struggled.  We'll see if FT8 was a big difference maker or not.

Well, I am truly West Coast, just being a few miles inland.  LP was indeed a powerful weapon.  From here, a hex beam on 17 and a dipole on 30 were enough to get in the log, with some modest RX antennas.  I worked hard on my station but in the end, none of the improvements I made actually mattered.  In fact, my 30 meter QSO on the first night was with an antenna I put up hours before after seeing Col's tweet that they would be on 30 all night.

But I wanted to share my personal experience about mode: CW was way, way easier than FT8 for me.  I did not call for more than 5 minutes for either of the CW QSOs I made.  I called for hours on FT8 at 500+ watts without any success at all.  Same station, totally different results.  Part of it may have been propagation, but I also think FT8 is going or has gone full "red ocean" and it is not the path to easy success it may have once been.  Everyone is welcome to their own interpretation of the situation, but my personal belief is that the FT8 operations drew away callers and made it easier for the CW guys.  For the near future, perhaps, if you can hear the DX at all on CW, it may be an easier shot.

My experience with 3Y0J mirrors yours... On 30m CW I spent 95% of the time listening, trying to figure out his pattern and hopefully find the last station he worked in that crazy 20 KHz wide pileup. The night I got him on 30m, I listened for an hour and a half and made only few calls and miraculously, he heard me, probably by pure luck. 30m antenna here is horizontal dipole at 35ft with 200W from my Yaesu FTdx5000MP. My 17m QSO was via long path. The opening lasted for about 15-20 minutes. The 1500W from my Alpha and HEX Beam at 40ft, did the job. I have been extremely lucky with my 2 Bouvet QSO's, unlike many others who were not able to manage a single QSO with much better stations. DXCC #333 Mixed, #332 CW.

73 Dragan K0AP
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 06:30:12 PM
Looking at Johnson Island -- very nasty.

Every kind of contaminant you can imagine is there. Agent Orange.  Plutonium.  Those two, alone, are very horrible (look it up -- plutonium is nasty and dangerous in very small quantities independent of its radioactivity).

Apparently, the military once in a while still does stuff there.  We might have to wait for a military guy (few of which are there anymore) or maybe a USFWS guy (doubtful if many go there) and somehow have spare time to have a radio with them.

It just looks like one of the most dangerous waste dumps on the planet.  Not some place to send 50 something civilians for radio.

Read here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Atoll

Why on earth should a place like this be part of our program.  I mean, why not operate from inside a nuclear reactor while we are at it?  Probably safer.

If we were told Kingman was never going to be allowed again, why on earth aren't they telling us the same thing for Johnson?  Is there some corner that somehow isn't contaminated?  And, with plutonium and its incredible toxicity, how could they be sure?

Maybe Wiki has it wrong, but you read the history and it is one contamination event after another.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AF5CC on February 14, 2023, 06:42:56 PM
Kingman Reef was deleted because of a change in administration over it, which now made it part of Palmyra and Jarvis Island, not because it was difficult to get to or activate.

http://www.arrl.org/news/kingman-reef-kh5-deleted-from-dxcc-list

73 John AF5CC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 06:48:16 PM
Let's look at the rest of EI2GLB's list:

Prefix   Entity   Most-wanted Rank  Comments
P5   DPRK (NORTH KOREA)   1   Top level political problems.  The son, unlike Daddy, doesn't seem interested in "demonstration" projects.
EZ   TURKMENISTAN   23    Top level political problems.  Wait until the current ruler dies and then _maybe_ it changes?
BS7H SCARBOROUGH REEF   4   Politics, potential to actual war zone
BV9P  PRATAS ISLAND   6   Politics, potential to actual war zone
KH3JOHNSTON ISLAND   8  Cesspool, this would be the king of  "let someone else activate it."
KH7K KURE ISLAND   7   Military approval, wasn't it?  This and the next three are the sort that are impossible until they aren't.  No idea when these will be green-lit again.  Nothing recent.
CE0X SAN FELIX ISLANDS   5
YV0    AVES ISLAND  12
PY0T TRINDADE & MARTIM VAZ ISLANDS   17
3Y/P PETER 1 ISLAND   9    "Doable", but better plan on 2 to 3 million if we go by Bouvet and "some" failures.
FT/G GLORIOSO ISLAND   10  Done as recently as 2009.  Seems we might see this one.
YK SYRIA   25   "When the war is over, Ashley. When the war is over."
ZL8 KERMADEC ISLAND   27   Don't know on this one.  Environmental, I assume?

I'd say two -- Glorioso and Syria -- are at least possible "someday".  Maybe the next ten years?  Peter I is "just" a matter of money.  Lots of it.  I haven't heard of permissions problems for that one.

The rest are a lot of politics to be overcome.  Sometimes, (XF4) it can be.  Other times, nobody figures it out.  Still other times (looking at you EZ) it just isn't possible.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AF5CC on February 14, 2023, 06:49:29 PM
"One thing we used to have but no longer do is regular infusions of "new ones" like Swain's.  That went on for decades.  But, that's over pretty much."

One way to fix that is to change the rules to allow partially recognized states to count as entities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_limited_recognition

Look at the list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_limited_recognition

Several of these already count as DXCC entities.  Maybe change the rules to allow a country to count as an entity if it is diplomatically recognized by X number of other countries.

73 John AF5CC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 06:50:44 PM
Quote
Kingman Reef was deleted because of a change in administration over it, which now made it part of Palmyra and Jarvis Island, not because it was difficult to get to or activate.

If you say so.  I recall that the USF&W put out a statement telling us in no uncertain terms that they would never give permission to activate it again due to various safety risks on top of the usual environmental concerns.  There is apparently some half submerged ship that even professional salvage outfits were struggling with.

The action you cited, by a magical coincidence, happened a matter of weeks later.  A coincidence I am very sure.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 14, 2023, 06:56:14 PM
Looking at Johnson Island -- very nasty.
I worked the very last-ever activation of that entity, a small operation by Martti Laine, who happens to have a Johnston-based callsign (AH3D, which he was using). This was before I got interested in CW and RTTY, so I only worked him on 10, 12, and 15 SSB. That's it. That was during the first week of February 2003. I'm kicking myself for missing him on CW and RTTY. I didn't start dabbling in CW until later that year.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 06:58:33 PM
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_limited_recognition

I give you high points for imagination, but reading through the list makes me, at least, squeamish.

A lot of these little rump states are little more than pawns in big power politics and may provoke wars.  Maybe we don't care about that, but I suspect the league would look at the potential problems with various governments and opt out.  It took a bit of time, remember, before the ARRL recognized Kosovo for DXCC purposes.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AF5CC on February 14, 2023, 07:07:36 PM
Looking at Johnson Island -- very nasty.
I worked the very last-ever activation of that entity, a small operation by Martti Laine, who happens to have a Johnston-based callsign (AH3D, which he was using). This was before I got interested in CW and RTTY, so I only worked him on 10, 12, and 15 SSB. That's it. That was during the first week of February 2003. I'm kicking myself for missing him on CW and RTTY. I didn't start dabbling in CW until later that year.

I remember that DXpedition well.  My daughter was 2 or 3 months old at the time.  I had to get up one night when she was crying to get her back to sleep.  While I was up I figured I might as well check out the radio, and worked them on 80 meters for a new band country!  Kind of like the year before when I had to get up in the middle of the night to answer nature's call, turned on the radio, and worked Wake Is. for a ATNO.

73 John AF5CC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AF5CC on February 14, 2023, 07:09:02 PM
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_limited_recognition

I give you high points for imagination, but reading through the list makes me, at least, squeamish.

A lot of these little rump states are little more than pawns in big power politics and may provoke wars.  Maybe we don't care about that, but I suspect the league would look at the potential problems with various governments and opt out.  It took a bit of time, remember, before the ARRL recognized Kosovo for DXCC purposes.

Kosovo was another "coincidence."  The DXCC changed the rules in a way that allowed Kosovo to be added to the list, and then claimed that the change in rules had nothing to do with Kosovo, even though no other entity has since been added under the new rule.

73 John AF5CC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 14, 2023, 07:09:52 PM
Let's look at the rest of EI2GLB's list:

PY0T TRINDADE & MARTIM VAZ ISLANDS   17
FT/G GLORIOSO ISLAND   10  Done as recently as 2009.  Seems we might see this one.
ZL8 KERMADEC ISLAND   27   Don't know on this one.  Environmental, I assume?


Trindade & Martim Vaz Islands was last activated in 2015 - PQ0T (worked a band or two)
Kermadec Island was last activated in 2010 - ZL8X (worked em' 5 bands!)
I missed Glorioso - I was living in an apartment with an attic antenna. I sure as heck tried listening for it but never heard em'

No clue when they might come again.. but at least fairly recently...
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 14, 2023, 08:14:23 PM
My thoughts would be reducing the separation distance to allow a small handful of new entities, removing anything from the active list that would not conform to current or new list criteria (goodbye Scarborough, SMOM, the U.N., and ITU HQ), the addition of an "inactives" list for entities that have not been activated for X years (20-25 would be a reasonable number) or that have been declared off-limits to human recreational activity by the governmental agencies that administer access to the islands. I would also add the ability for stations in a vessel anchored within 250m of land from places like Bouvet on a case-by-case basis, where landing would be exceptionally dangerous and is not likely to occur safely. Photo evidence and a sworn statement from the vessel's master would be required for those. Failing that, I would consider reducing the number of entities needed to get on the Honor Roll to 20 below the top level, rather than the current 10. Any or all of these would breathe new life into a moribund program that desperately needs an injection of fresh blood.

You've got to be kidding... Why don't we just delete and dumb down the program so everyone can have Honor Roll. And this is all for the new blood? You want countries/entities that haven't been activated for 20-25 years to be put on an inactive list? Well, that sounds like an ulterior motive since you need Pratas and San Felix, which haven't been activated in over 20 years. If you also want North Korea on that list, you'll need to come up with something else since it was activated in 2016.

The DXCC list is fine as it is, and hope the guys at DXAC see it that way. If they take you up on any of those ideas, there's gonna be some very pizzed off DXers, and I'll be one of them. I don't want the last two I need, P5 and BS7, deleted simply because they aren't activated often enough. If The Rocks one day are underwater at high tide, then they do longer meet the criteria for which they were grandfathered. And I certainly don't want to lose Challenge points for all those countries/entities you listed.

Thanks to a friend, I was told they were loud in the western US on 15, and I got them from RHR Tacoma beaming 250°, along the terminator. Got a +3, if I recall, but I didn't take a screen shot; I wanted to get off quick and stop the meter :D . They were definitely on evens and I was working F/H mode.

I was monitoring 21.105 on my home station in NJ and in three hours there wasn't a single print on either long or short path, and that's with four elements at 65' on a C31XR.

I know it's authorized by DXCC to use remote to make contacts anywhere within your own country, but it's still a joke. Don't know why you come on here making those statements, but when you do, some may wonder if you'll also use remote to work zones, grids, and Alaska on 6M. I'm not saying you will, just some may wonder.

Looks like the 30m FT8 QSO's are missing from the log.
Some of them are there, but hopefully there will be more to come.

Had to scratch my head about that one. This is what you already have in the log. Other than pigging out, what do you have to gain by a 30M FT8 QSO showing up in the log, and what do you have to lose if it doesn't show up? Since you already have 30M and digital, insurance is not needed.

(https://i.postimg.cc/nzC0zg2t/w2irt.jpg)






Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 08:36:37 PM
Quote
I know it's authorized by DXCC to use remote to make contacts anywhere within your own country, but it's still a joke. Don't know why you come on here making those statements, but when you do, some may wonder if you'll also use remote to work zones, grids, and Alaska on 6M. I'm not saying you will, just some may wonder.

Sure, because everyone who talks about owning a gun is going to go out and commit murder as opposed to going hunting or going to shooting ranges.

The problem with all of you "unwritten rule" sorts is that you immediately leap to "cheating" scenarios.

How dare someone talk about a legal means you disapprove of!  Must be a cheater!

People don't have to hide their legal behavior under a bushel basket.

I have an amp.  It's a common, commercial amp.  It is positively easy (as it is on many other models) to take it up to 2 kilowatts, even 2.5 kilowatts.  It's just a dial to turn.

Yet, when someone talks about an amp, there is not this immediate presumption of cheating around here.  But cheating an amp above the legal range is pretty darn easy.  Someone is probably doing it now and then.  Yet, we don't accuse people of it just because we know they own an amp.


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 14, 2023, 08:51:21 PM
Quote
Since you already have 30M and digital, insurance is not needed.

Nobody saw those logs, even in part, until very late in an operation that was threatening fair to end almost immediately from the time of the first QSO to the last.

Anyone with an early CW QSO (and remember, there were pirates on frequency), can be excused for insurance when nobody could be that sure of what they had.

I got myself a whopping two QSOs and stopped.  But, having operated in the not so good old days before Clublog, I can understand where the desire for insurance comes from.  One of my QSOs didn't make the cut and I thought that one was the more solid.  It would not, under these circumstances, been all that big a black mark for me to go for three.  Not with the degree of crazy on this one.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 15, 2023, 12:41:51 AM
You've got to be kidding... Why don't we just delete and dumb down the program so everyone can have Honor Roll. And this is all for the new blood? You want countries/entities that haven't been activated for 20-25 years to be put on an inactive list? Well, that sounds like an ulterior motive since you need Pratas and San Felix, which haven't been activated in over 20 years. If you also want North Korea on that list, you'll need to come up with something else since it was activated in 2016.
Way to overreact here mate. First of all, yes, it is absolutely for new blood to get interested. Tell someone "you'll never, ever be able to achieve in 30, 40, or 50 years what someone who got in 10 years ago did," and a newcomer will just say fine. Screw this and move on. If Basic Honor Roll was still a very distinct possibility for someone coming in now, today, in 2023, I wouldn't even dream of wanting to see this changed. But it's not, and it likely will NEVER be if governments hold to their "it's closed to human activity forever" policies. HR#1 is a very different animal and there's no way I'd agree to see that dumbed down, but basic HR within two solar cycles should be achievable by anybody with a reasonable station and dedication. There are close to 20 "closed" entities now. See a previous post for what I added. Maybe closer to 15, but still much more than the 10-back needed for the most basic level of HR.

I've got a nice buffer at 337. P5 would not be inactive under those proposals for a long time since Dom activated it, however briefly, a few years ago on New Years. Pratas and San Felix, yeah, they'd probably become inactive but I don't want to see them dropped from the master list. Scarborough I already have but it has absolutely NO business being on the list, and the same with others.

The DXCC list is fine as it is, and hope the guys at DXAC see it that way. If they take you up on any of those ideas, there's gonna be some very pizzed off DXers, and I'll be one of them.
Tough. Your achievements are great for you and other old-school operators, but they will likely never be possible by someone new. Old Timers on the way out have no business imposing UNATTAINABLE standards on the next generation. "This is how we did it, and we liked it" doesn't fly in 2023 with that precious demographic that everybody's trying to entice into DXing, those in their teens and twenties. That attitude of "I've got mine, screw you" is one of the most insidious evils in any field of endeavor.

CW got dropped from exams. Deal with it. FT8 is here. Deal with it. Clusters and cell phone alerts are a thing. Deal with it. Remote operations are acceptable for credit under specific conditions. Deal with it, or get out of the way. Nobody's saying your achievements will be cancelled, except perhaps a handful of Marathon points--hey, I hated when they deleted R1MV and I lost 3 points, and ditto the two PJs, but of course I earned those right back again. But to a new DXer, having a challenging road ahead is great; just so long as it's a road that leads to a destination that is possible to arrive at in 20-ish years. That's all my proposals are aimed towards; no more and no less.

Frankly I don't care if some old timers get cheesed off at the changes. They probably won't be around in 25 years, but those coming in today will, and the DXAC and P&SC needs to recognize their needs and plan for them in the long term. At 61 and in less-than-great health I know I probably don't have another two solar cycles left in me, but I'd rather see the League keep interest alive in DXing, or the DXCC program itself will fall into serious trouble soon after the last boomer pops his cogs.

And while I really don't want to get overly political here (I never really do), I find this a very apt correlation with Brexit in the U.K. Old timers voted for isolationism and tried to capture the Olde Time post-WWII glory days of the Empire, all the while dooming the next generation to a hideous malestrom of unnecessary red tape and restrictions...and screwing themselves every time they go to the shops and or holiday, etc. My inlaws are British citizens and they saw that train wreck coming in slow motion from a front row seat. The same follies, on a smaller scale, lie ahead for DXing as a sub-hobby within amateur radio if we keep trying to roll back the calendar to 1955 or 1975.

I know it's authorized by DXCC to use remote to make contacts anywhere within your own country, but it's still a joke.
It's authorized for DXCC and it's legal. Period. It's a tool that is permitted, and I intend to use it on occasion and as needed to further my goals. I will not hobble myself to keep to your or anybody else's allegedly lofty ideals. End of discussion.

Don't know why you come on here making those statements, but when you do, some may wonder if you'll also use remote to work zones, grids, and Alaska on 6M. I'm not saying you will, just some may wonder.
In that case, "some" may take a flying....leap at a rolling doughnut. It's against the WAS and VUCC rules to work states and grids in that fashion and quite simply I will not do it. I want AK for not just a new DXCC (OK, that's within the remote rules), but also to close off my 10B-WAS, plus whatever VUCC grid(s) go along with that. Like just about everybody here, I have never and will never cheat for an award. Period. Full Stop. I simply cannot make it plainer than that. And to question the integrity of someone you've never even met or gotten to know personally is quite frankly unpalatable. Using accepted, modern, and cutting-edge tools is not cheating. If remote operations are ever disallowed then I'd never consider using one. Take that to the bank.

Looks like the 30m FT8 QSO's are missing from the log.
Some of them are there, but hopefully there will be more to come.
Had to scratch my head about that one. This is what you already have in the log. Other than pigging out, what do you have to gain by a 30M FT8 QSO showing up in the log, and what do you have to lose if it doesn't show up? Since you already have 30M and digital, insurance is not needed.
Except it turned out that it was needed. Two "contacts" that I made on 30m earlier never showed up. Then I used RHR to work 15 via remote and it's not there either. Until I see something in the log I will always assume the contact with a CW or digital station isn't legit, until it's proven otherwise. If I quit after those "Bouvet contacts", thinking, hey I got 3 already, lets not be a piggie, I wouldn't have bothered working them on 17, which turns out to be the only legit one in the log.

Plus yeah, a second or third band would be nice, especially given the significant funding I helped secure from my club along with my personal donations (plural). I had no intention of pigging this one out, but a couple of bands and some insurance in absence of online logs is not something I will lose sleep over. It's understandable that they could not upload the logs from the island; I get that. But at the same time I'm not going to roll over and give up on what is likely my last-ever chance to work them on digital.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 15, 2023, 01:11:44 AM
Quote
insurance is not needed.

During this particular expedition, insurance QSOs were very very much needed. The number of pirates interfering was just unprecedented. Many of us likely worked at least one of them. I personally worked a pirate on 20m FT8, then later on 20m CW, and only my last QSO, again on 20m FT8, was a valid one. One out of three.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 15, 2023, 03:15:15 AM
W2IRT - that's a heck of a rant.  And quite revealing.  Thank you for that.

Wonder how many of those zones are attributable to RHR.  Just sayin....

I am sure glad DXCC Honor Roll and #1 is not as important to me as it is to some of you guys on here.  I mean wow.

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 15, 2023, 03:23:58 AM
The experience of the past month or so has shown me that FT8 is no Panacea.
As K4JZ put it " Part of it may have been propagation, but I also think FT8 is going or has gone full "red ocean" and it is not the path to easy success it may have once been. "
My experience with both FT8WW and 3Y0J is that by being ready to pounce within minutes of them appearing (on CW) I was able to make their log with only one or two calls. Sometimes the propagation wasn't there to anywhere else, and the pileup just did not get going, or it became silly a bit later, well after I had it in my log. FT8 on the other hand, turned out to be a quite long and disappointing slog, with incomprehensible pileups and a wall of noise. With 3Y0J, it had the added variety of not being sure if we needed to chase an odd or even transmitting 3Y0J. I just checked ClubLog, and I most certainly worked a fake 3Y0J on 17 m FT8, but worked the real one also. This was not evident until the log had been uploaded. I really couldn't have cared less if I had not worked them in Data mode, but just wanted "insurance", in case I had been tricked with my CW QSO.
With 330 entities worked in the past 15 years, I can honestly state that I only have ONE of those in any Data mode exclusively. All but a handful are in CW, and of those handful all but one are in SSB Phone.
Honour Roll is definitely a goal for me, being only one short of it now, but #1HR? Forget it!
Regarding Scarborough Shoal, why don't we send a "Surveillance Balloon" over the area to have a look to see if any of it is still above water? ;-)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 15, 2023, 03:57:17 AM
It was a lot of fun working 3Y0J on 30 meter CW with 100 watts and a wire for an ATNO.

Thanks to Ken, LA7GIA, and the team for putting in the time, money, and work to activate Bouvet.

Your efforts are much appreciated.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 15, 2023, 05:04:47 AM
BLAH BLAH BLAH....

If you devoted similar energy into contesting as you do DXing, you might overcome many of your trials and tribulations like the mountain that moves, or your seeming inability to work stations during a contest. 

After all, you have spent over $50,000 on your station, buying everything brand new PERIOD.  Instead of whining about the choices you made by buying a QTH at the base of Mount Everest, you could channel all that energy into increased BIC time during major contests to help out your contest club. 

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 15, 2023, 05:09:00 AM
The experience of the past month or so has shown me that FT8 is no Panacea.

985 30 meter FT8 QSOs have been uploaded. Many that people I know were expecting still seem to be missing. Whether though pirates or operator error, the bust rate here for FT8 is astonishing.

For my money, if forced to choose, I'd rather deal with the DQRM on CW. At least I could kind of tell what was going on. An FT8 QSO under these circumstances turned out to be an act of faith and hope.  Some real sickos out there who fooled people into possibly missing their once-in-a-generation chance.

Reminds me of "All Summer in a Day" by Ray Bradbury.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 15, 2023, 05:38:29 AM
well i hope most of you get a chance to to see the video of the landing operations. if you don't have face book borrow a friends phone etc to have a look at kens video's on the 3y0j fb page wow . these guys were keen and i'm thank full to have been logged. im glad they are all safely on the boat and would gladly give up all of my qso's so they get home safe.
its a crazy hobby of our's I call it an extreme sport and most of my non ham friends agree when i tell the stories of some of the operations.
for me its all about the stories and the history and the entities


RE the rhr we have a number of ops's with remote stations i dont care my dxcc quest is very personal and i will work my dxcc from my house if i dont make honour role so be it the others can please themselves.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 15, 2023, 06:17:12 AM
Quote
insurance is not needed.
During this particular expedition, insurance QSOs were very very much needed. The number of pirates interfering was just unprecedented. Many of us likely worked at least one of them. I personally worked a pirate on 20m FT8, then later on 20m CW, and only my last QSO, again on 20m FT8, was a valid one. One out of three.

Please go back and read the bottom of message #1001 and see what I said. What happened is, someone put part of a my sentence in bold type, and that's what is quoted here. Keep in mind, what you see below was already in the online log when W2IRT said he hopes more 30M FT8 logs show up. At that point, he didn't need it since he already had 30M and digital in the online log. Insurance was no longer needed.
(https://i.postimg.cc/nzC0zg2t/w2irt.jpg)

<edit>Remember the team's request not to call them again. If anyone called after seeing their QSO or QSOs in the log, that was not an insurance contact.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 15, 2023, 06:26:47 AM
This is the most resent FB update from team 3Y0J. 

We activated Bouvet Island in extremely difficult conditions! Now that we leave Bouvet with mixed feelings, we also know that we did what we could to get Bouvet on the air.
Four members went ashore at Bouvet on 31 January in good conditions to set up the climbing route and install an unmanned zodiac rope system between a buoy and the beach, so that we could land equipment also in rough surf. During the day the surf increased, and the extraction of the team members was aborted, and we were thus stranded on Bouvet late in the evening. During 3 nights we slept outdoors under the open sky in cold and difficult conditions with little or no supplies. We prepared a simple emergency shelter on the island where we stayed (tarp). During the second day we got some supplies in a risky zodiac operation in high swell. We lost several objects in the surf and punctured the zodiac. The conditions on the beach were terrible. Due to the coming storm, we evacuated back to Marama on day 4.
Despite this, we decided to go ahead and scale down DXped. We could not fight against Bouvet, but had to adjust to the weather and go ashore when Bouvet allowed us. We called it "Picolite DXped" as pictures will show you we operated with 100W from a single tent, no chairs and no table, 60m coax, no amp, simple antennas, small generator etc. Our 2 Elecraft K3 radios were stacked on top of a bucket turned upside down, and we sat on the ground operating. All our wet clothes were dried outdoor on the rocks, and we had very limited heating. We went through a storm of 55 knots, but our tent had no problem with the windforce! The spiderpoles and the DX Engineering antennas also survived the storm w/o any issue.
We only took the equipment we needed, 620 kg in total including supplies. All our supplies to the island were via a rope attached to a buoy 100 meters from shore to beach. All objects were hooked to the line and floated to shore by team members pulling the rope. We named it the gym. The team members also went ashore in survival suits hooked to the line and floating to shore. What an experience!!
Radio Operation: Pileup was difficult as our signals were weak. We had good reception and very often we called 3 to 5 times to log a qso. Many DXers called us but couldn't hear us, how frustrating! We focused on fewer bands to maximize ATNO and looking at the stats we achieved 19,000 QSOs and 50% unique calls. And many dupes! Many are satisfied, but some are also disappointed by the performance of either the team or the DQRMers. We had issues  with the FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock were 14 seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it was even.
As for Bouvet, there is no guarantee at all, whether you use two helicopters or zodiac! We could have wanted to make more contacts, but safety was and will always be more important than trying to push our limits in a risky environment. In the coming months, you will be invited to hear more of our stories at conventions and in articles.




Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 15, 2023, 07:00:21 AM
Everyone needs to look at the 2 videos Ken posted,

Reading what they went through means nothing until you seen them struggling to pull gear onto the island,

The seriously went above and beyond to give us a chance to work them,

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 15, 2023, 07:19:04 AM
Wonder how many of those zones are attributable to RHR.  Just sayin....
One.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NX7U on February 15, 2023, 07:57:22 AM
Maybe a reasonable approach to HR is to graduate it a bit.  Right now it's like being pregnant.

No doubt there is better phraseology that can be employed, but just to throw something out there:
Within 40: "Apprentice"
Within 20: "Associate"
and then leave within 9 as "Full" or what have you...rather than tinkering with the rules to specifically make it easier.

If a bio is needed, I'm 59 y/o and at 338 which took 47 years, including the usual inactivity periods for Uni, kids, etc. etc.  My setup has always been modest--my HR contact was ZD9 from my mobile, because that was the only station I had at the time. 

And when I started many DXers said:  "oh we'll never work BY.  Never gonna happen, ever.  It should be deleted!"
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W4AMP on February 15, 2023, 08:02:36 AM
K4ZDH, Riley Hollingsworth, the illustrious head of the Secret Volunteer Monitor branch of the ARRL, says that if you encounter QRM to spin the vfo. That has been his entire policy for over twenty years.

I guess if you are a dx'er you are out of luck.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 15, 2023, 08:04:24 AM
If you devoted similar energy into contesting as you do DXing, you might overcome many of your trials and tribulations like the mountain that moves, or your seeming inability to work stations during a contest. Instead of whining about the choices you made by buying a QTH at the base of Mount Everest, you could channel all that energy into increased BIC time during major contests to help out your contest club.
When I bought this place I didn't know what takeoff angle and HF Terrain analysis was. If I did, 100% I wouldn't have considered it. Ask Zev what it's like operating from here. Or come try it yourself—I could use another op for ARRL-CW. Europe from my QTH is a slog. I can't hear the 100W/wire guys clearly enough to work, just the big mega-stations and kW/triband types from over there. Getting a run going is very, very difficult so I'm 90% S&P. Quite honestly, even in the best conditions, 1.5M to 2M is as good as score as you'll ever see me able to post.

Also remember that I work from this same desk typically 60 to 80 hours a week, and there are some weekends I'm just so wiped out that I can't stomach the thought of sitting at my work desk for another two days straight, but I do it for FRC and try to soldier on until I just can't any more. Yeah, excuses, excuses, excuses...but my passion in radio is DXing and awards chasing, not contesting. Contesting can be fun, and I love FRC, but after operating from a crap location for 16 or so years I've hit a wall and it's just not a pleasant experience if you want to know the ghods' honest truth. Maybe I'd do better being an op in a big M/M, or certainly from a DX location with big antennas and power but from here? Meh.

Like I said, I'll challenge anybody to come up here and sit in this chair for a few hours in CQWW or ARRL-DX, especially Friday night, and see how fun it is to have every big 1x2 and 2x1 east coast callsign beat you like a drum in every single mult pileup. And no, I'm not changing my callsign, but I'm often sorely tempted after an SSB contest.

Simple stations with high T/O angles just can't compete effectively with the big guns. I have trouble with the low-angle DX and outside of contests; a semi-rare one that would probably take you an a few minutes or half an hour to work often takes me many hours or I don't get through until the next day, even with about 1350-1400W. Now condense that to needed mults, and do it 300 times in the roughly 30 or so hours I can play. C'mon up and try it. It'll be fun!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 15, 2023, 09:04:29 AM
Quote
and then leave within 9 as "Full" or what have you...rather than tinkering with the rules to specifically make it easier.

I have long suggested that #1 HR causes 90 per cent of the heat and headaches in DXing.  I'm glad at least one other person has said so in public.

But, while I have long suggested that HR is very possible still, others are no longer as sure as I am.

The devil of it is, DXpedition costs seem to be increasing and various authorities seem to be increasing the amount of restrictions we have.  Every once in a while, another shoe drops.

One or both of Navassa or Deschero used to be activated by a motorboat and traversing a rickety rope ladder.  Just like the locals apparent still do.  But we have to follow the rules.  So, nowadays, they get activated once in 20 years (the last team agreed to that on our behalf) and by helicopter.  Baker had to pay for and take a USF&W officer with them.  She was very helpful, apparently, but it's an added cost we didn't use to pay.

Since Daddy died, I have seen not even the small scale ham radio "demonstrations" that were very occasionally allowed in P5 land.  There was a Russian guy that was allowed some very limited activity, but I think that, too, has ceased.  P5 has had little or no activity (and much less than the piddly bits we used to see) for many years now.  EZ has been 100 per cent off the air since 2006.  Some use to tell me that even P5 and ZA were sometimes available in "the old days".  But, they can't really say the same about P5 or EZ today.  At least we're getting a little bit of action on Crozet and Bouvet -- very welcome.  But both stories are obviously a little bit mixed at present.  Robust activity from these -- mega expeditions that come off -- remains a dream.

The Braveheart and its crew is gone, not really replaced, especially the latter.  World-wide, there is a sputtering movement to reduce fossil fuels that, however halting and imperfect, is likely to raise the "real" (inflation adjusted) price of fuel oil.  Whenever oil goes to, say, 150 dollars a barrel, and stays there a while, DXpedition costs to many difficult places goes through the roof.  Or, maybe we activate them all by sailboat (and it is still very expensive).

There are things, like FT8, that (on balance) make things easier.  But, if you look at it dispassionately, DXpeditioning (which is really a separate hobby for the few), seems to be all going the wrong way as far as being easier versus being harder.  There are some bright spots like BY and ZA, but that's getting to be a long time ago.  At least there's Crozet.  Maybe we can repeat the trick going on right now enough to get the equivalent of a mega expedition done.  Then do it on Glorioso and other French possessions we seldom see.  Maybe.

I can remember in the pretty recent past where DXpeditions to even difficult places had budgets of 300,000 USD and they put on what Marrti Lane calls "a good show" on every band we have, with amps and stuff.

Nowadays, these kinds of places seem to cost 750,000 to a million and require even more maneuvering, negotiating, and perhaps outright begging to various unsympathetic authorities who gain nothing by saying "yes" and whose duties and procedures lean toward "no".

It's easy to ignore this because Someone Else overcomes these problems for us.  But, should we ignore these things?  It's just a hobby.  If the world isn't favorably disposed to having us in some of these places, at what point do we give in to what the world is saying and adjust?  Must we have a DXing rule set that requires million dollar activations?  That reduces the number we do get.  We could probably do more than we do, but we manifestly can't raise 5 million bucks a year to put on five of these interesting (but costly) places.  In the case of Bouvet, it's taken three rather heroic tries to get anything.  Is that really the DXing we want?

It all boils down to whether the upcoming generation of DXers, the ones that have never seen a legal EZ signal on the air, think about these things and whether that thinking evolves.  Dunno.  My generation is loathe to consider any of this.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 15, 2023, 09:05:13 AM
Wonder how many of those zones are attributable to RHR.  Just sayin....
One.

Well, according to the  WAZ Rules (https://cq-amateur-radio.com/cq_awards/cq_waz_awards/Jan2023-Rules.pdf), which you should be familiar with since you're a card checker, one is too many for Traditional WAZ. I don't see any remote categories in the listings, so it appears everyone is only working zones traditional style. Yeah, that's what it is, should have known. ::)

Note 5: There are three technology categories recognized for the WAZ Award:
Traditional, Remote and All-Remote.

a. Traditional - The operator is physically present at the station location
(location of transmitter, receiver and antenna) for all contacts. All contacts
must be made from within the same DX entity.

b. Remote - The operator uses remote station technology to make one or
more claimed contacts on or after January 1, 2015. All contacts must be
made from within the same DX entity. Remote WAZ awards will be
numbered separately from Traditional awards.

c. All-Remote - The operator uses remote station technology on or after
January 1, 2015 to make all claimed contacts. All contacts must be made
from within the same DX entity. All--Remote WAZ awards will be
numbered separately from Traditional and Remote awards.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4JK on February 15, 2023, 10:23:58 AM
This is the most resent FB update from team 3Y0J. 
We had issues  with the FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock were 14 seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it was even.

...Oh my. That's...  really unfortunate. No wonder some of those digital pileups were such a disaster.

I guess they didn't know about JTSync?  What a bummer.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 15, 2023, 11:10:13 AM
Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award  ;D
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 12:18:54 PM
Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award  ;D

A lot of 1's, couple dozen 2's, but I did see a 3.

Good for him, 3 Q's somebody else didn't get.  They get participation trophy's instead.  That makes me happy.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 15, 2023, 12:31:18 PM
Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award  ;D

A lot of 1's, couple dozen 2's, but I did see a 3.

Good for him, 3 Q's somebody else didn't get.  They get participation trophy's instead.  That makes me happy.

NØUN
That’s the spirit!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 12:36:09 PM
This is the most resent FB update from team 3Y0J. 

We activated Bouvet Island in extremely difficult conditions! Now that we leave Bouvet with mixed feelings, we also know that we did what we could to get Bouvet on the air.
Four members went ashore at Bouvet on 31 January in good conditions to set up the climbing route and install an unmanned zodiac rope system between a buoy and the beach, so that we could land equipment also in rough surf. During the day the surf increased, and the extraction of the team members was aborted, and we were thus stranded on Bouvet late in the evening. During 3 nights we slept outdoors under the open sky in cold and difficult conditions with little or no supplies. We prepared a simple emergency shelter on the island where we stayed (tarp). During the second day we got some supplies in a risky zodiac operation in high swell. We lost several objects in the surf and punctured the zodiac. The conditions on the beach were terrible. Due to the coming storm, we evacuated back to Marama on day 4.
Despite this, we decided to go ahead and scale down DXped. We could not fight against Bouvet, but had to adjust to the weather and go ashore when Bouvet allowed us. We called it "Picolite DXped" as pictures will show you we operated with 100W from a single tent, no chairs and no table, 60m coax, no amp, simple antennas, small generator etc. Our 2 Elecraft K3 radios were stacked on top of a bucket turned upside down, and we sat on the ground operating. All our wet clothes were dried outdoor on the rocks, and we had very limited heating. We went through a storm of 55 knots, but our tent had no problem with the windforce! The spiderpoles and the DX Engineering antennas also survived the storm w/o any issue.
We only took the equipment we needed, 620 kg in total including supplies. All our supplies to the island were via a rope attached to a buoy 100 meters from shore to beach. All objects were hooked to the line and floated to shore by team members pulling the rope. We named it the gym. The team members also went ashore in survival suits hooked to the line and floating to shore. What an experience!!
Radio Operation: Pileup was difficult as our signals were weak. We had good reception and very often we called 3 to 5 times to log a qso. Many DXers called us but couldn't hear us, how frustrating! We focused on fewer bands to maximize ATNO and looking at the stats we achieved 19,000 QSOs and 50% unique calls. And many dupes! Many are satisfied, but some are also disappointed by the performance of either the team or the DQRMers. We had issues  with the FT8 due to we did not have any device to sync against, and our clock were 14 seconds off - which meant we at some time were TX odd, while we thought it was even.
As for Bouvet, there is no guarantee at all, whether you use two helicopters or zodiac! We could have wanted to make more contacts, but safety was and will always be more important than trying to push our limits in a risky environment. In the coming months, you will be invited to hear more of our stories at conventions and in articles.


A spectacular effort to give the Ham Community the CHANCE to work a rare DX Entity!

Bravo!

For folks like me it doesn't matter - but didn't they operate 30M FT8?   

Maybe I missed something (it has happened once before)?

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: IW0HQE on February 15, 2023, 12:40:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDHu21x6iaI

Just watched this video and wanted to say that the best part is at minute : 21:02

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 15, 2023, 12:46:50 PM
Quote
Nobody but a few of us care about DXCC anymore. Look at the FCC license numbers. HALF are Technicians. 50.2%.

When you account for things like phasing out Novice and Advanced, the ratios between license classes have been roughly stable any time I have looked.

If you want to hang doom, hang it on something real.

Our numbers, overall, have been stable to mildly growing for 30 years.  Our license classes ratios have been a little less stable, but I can detect just noise and fluctuation, not long term trends.

And, we sometimes forget that DXing depends not just on the US but the rest of the world.  I have no numbers on that, but if there is room to worry,  worry about the many places where amateur radio is way, way too much effort.

There's an African ham I know, a little, and you've worked him, that has no reliable power.  Every time he operates, he has to breathe diesel fumes from the generator.  Or, he did until recently when someone got him something to move the generator a little farther away.

The things that some people have to do to be on the air makes all of us look like privileged whiners.  But, when they have to do stuff like that, it means far fewer of their fellow citizens are on the air than would otherwise be there.

What protects DXing is not just what happens in the US, but what happens everywhere else.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WB9LUR on February 15, 2023, 12:48:08 PM
Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award  ;D

A lot of 1's, couple dozen 2's, but I did see a 3.

Good for him, 3 Q's somebody else didn't get.  They get participation trophy's instead.  That makes me happy.

NØUN
That’s the spirit!

Before they uploaded the first log - I had made the decision to get an "insurance" QSO - I just hadn't had the chance yet.

As to their admonition to not work them again - if you "think" that you already have. At first that sounded great and I was gonna play along. But there were sooooo many pirates, even on frequency, nobody knew for certain if they had actually worked 3Y0 or a slim.

Someone in this very group posted, after listening to the recording of my QSO, that they still were not sure if I made the Q or not and suggested that I should work them again to be sure.

Many (most?) of those with two or more Q's were probably making insurance QSO's. It's how we did it in the old days. Next DXpedition that doesn't have a log will see insurance QSO's from me regardless of their request otherwise - they can tell me "QSO B4" like they do in the contests.

I do believe many of us were coming to this same choice.


Randy / WB9LUR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 12:49:23 PM
For folks like me it doesn't matter - but didn't they operate 30M FT8?   

Maybe I missed something (it has happened once before)?

NØUN

Answer my own question.

It appears Club Log has the missing FT8 Q's, but not M0OXO just yet.

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/3y0j.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 12:57:01 PM
Club Log Stats show more Q's...

NØUN

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/3y0j-clublog.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 15, 2023, 01:08:31 PM



Many (most?) of those with two or more Q's were probably making insurance QSO's. It's how we did it in the old days.



Randy / WB9LUR

What many did in “the old days” was send “599 pse cfm” as the exchange to ensure we were in the log. Guess people don’t know that works with the collateral benefit of eliminating dupes.

Resorting to a dupe to ensure someone is in the log, while somewhat understandable, doesn’t explain why the % of unique calls was so low unless everyone did that.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 01:15:29 PM
Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award  ;D

A lot of 1's, couple dozen 2's, but I did see a 3.

Good for him, 3 Q's somebody else didn't get.  They get participation trophy's instead.  That makes me happy.

NØUN

After running the latest from Club Log, there's one eHammer with 5 Q's, lol.

A lot of the 1's are now 2's. 2's are now 3's - a 4, and now a 5!

Well done sir, well done!

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 15, 2023, 01:19:49 PM
Someone in this very group posted, after listening to the recording of my QSO, that they still were not sure if I made the Q or not and suggested that I should work them again to be sure.

Randy / WB9LUR

I plead guilty to that.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 15, 2023, 01:21:07 PM
Quote
2. The rules should be changed to make it easier/quicker/ less onerous to achieve a goal.

No, I'm suggesting we take a hard look at things and decide what has changed and react to that.

Guys like you always say that proposals for change "make it easier". But, you never seem to consider the possibility that things today just might be significantly harder than they used to be.

If that proves true (and there is some evidence for it), then we need to think about what we want to do.  If DXing, overall, keeps ratcheting up the difficulty, it is someday going to die.  People are going to do it for a while, look at the end game, decide "never going to be me" and stop.  Happens already, always did; the question is "is this group increasing"?  Well, if we keep making it harder, it will.

Moreover, some of what might be proposed has nothing to do with you or me or the station we might build.

There are two classes, distinct classes, of people here and the rules impact them differently:

1.  The DXer who builds their station, usually in the comfort of their own home and yard.

2.  The DXpeditioner who undergoes incredible expenses and hardships to meet arbitrary rules invented by people in the #1 group.

Suppose we did adopt a rule for very expensive places like Bouvet or Peter I that allowed us to do Maritime Mobile as long as the boat was within (say) 15 miles of the island, and properly certified as such.

What really changes?

Does the station you build change?  Nope.

Does the difficulty of cracking the pileup change?  Nope.

What changes is the expense of activating the place.  The fact is, we all of us are paying a price for refusing to consider changes like this.  There's only so much money available for DXpeditioning.

We've had three expeditions to Bouvet of late and gotten a total of 18,800 or so QSOs out of all of that.  I don't know that we have a complete budget for all three, but the expense is well north of 2 million dollars, probably 2.5 million.

Well, that's 138 US Dollars per QSO, surely an all-time record.  We're all paying for that, one way or another.

Most DXpeditions are far, far cheaper than that on a cost per QSO basis.  Think of how many other places that could have been funded with that kind of money.  But, Peter I beckons.  Maybe it will only cost a million.  Maybe.

No, let's keep DXpeditioning pure, make it hard on the other guys and keep tossing out most of the money to a few very expensive activations while we sit at home and cry "purity".

Yea, that  makes obvious, unassailable sense.  That' the right way to run a hobby.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 15, 2023, 01:21:22 PM
What many did in “the old days” was send “599 pse cfm” as the exchange to ensure we were in the log. Guess people don’t know that works with the collateral benefit of eliminating dupes.

I was reasonably sure both of my Qs were good with someone, and they were.  What I did not know was whether it was Slim.  Getting an in-band confirmation confirms nothing in that context.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 15, 2023, 01:28:12 PM
Who got 5, I only got 3  :'( I missed 10m and 30m, Never heard them anywhere else,

Trevor
EI2GLB


Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award  ;D

A lot of 1's, couple dozen 2's, but I did see a 3.

Good for him, 3 Q's somebody else didn't get.  They get participation trophy's instead.  That makes me happy.

NØUN

After running the latest from Club Log, there's one eHammer with 5 Q's, lol.

A lot of the 1's are now 2's. 2's are now 3's - a 4, and now a 5!

Well done sir, well done!

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 15, 2023, 01:35:43 PM
Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award  ;D

A lot of 1's, couple dozen 2's, but I did see a 3.

Good for him, 3 Q's somebody else didn't get.  They get participation trophy's instead.  That makes me happy.

NØUN
That’s the spirit!

It would not be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that those people probably had a dozen RHR stations in their arsenal.  Anyway a Q made that way would be useless to me.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 15, 2023, 01:42:33 PM

985 30 meter FT8 QSOs have been uploaded. Many that people I know were expecting still seem to be missing. Whether though pirates or operator error, the bust rate here for FT8 is astonishing.

Well I assume I might have one CW contact under Kens Bouvet Call sign but I don't even know how to confirm that one yet.
I got one on FT8 during the F/H Debacle and that seems to have gone into the Bin, so I wait here in limbo thinking that this one is a bust.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 15, 2023, 02:29:36 PM
What many did in “the old days” was send “599 pse cfm” as the exchange to ensure we were in the log. Guess people don’t know that works with the collateral benefit of eliminating dupes.

I was reasonably sure both of my Qs were good with someone, and they were.  What I did not know was whether it was Slim.  Getting an in-band confirmation confirms nothing in that context.

One thing that probably helped others later on was when they started posting active frequencies on Facebook.  At least then you knew if it was probably real, at least on CW.

If you can't have a log, having open communications with the pilots looks vital now.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 15, 2023, 02:46:05 PM
Go Here: https://clublog.org/logsearch.php

Enter Ken's call (3Y7GIA) as log to search
Enter your call as KD8MJR

And stand by for bad new unfortunately


 Well I assume I might have one CW contact under Kens Bouvet Call sign but I don't even know how to confirm that one yet.
I got one on FT8 during the F/H Debacle and that seems to have gone into the Bin, so I wait here in limbo thinking that this one is a bust.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7JQ on February 15, 2023, 02:47:26 PM

It would not be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that those people probably had a dozen RHR stations in their arsenal.  Anyway a Q made that way would be useless to me.

It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award. Kinda dilutes the value of the award compared to those that did it from home, or a remote station that they built and own. But it's allowed, so to each his own ::).
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 15, 2023, 03:01:10 PM

It would not be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that those people probably had a dozen RHR stations in their arsenal.  Anyway a Q made that way would be useless to me.

It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award. Kinda dilutes the value of the award compared to those that did it from home, or a remote station that they built and own. But it's allowed, so to each his own ::).

I agree 100%. 

The RHR owners used to blacklist me when they were operating from abroad because I wrote that I thought paying for a QSO violated the definition of an amateur.  It's been a few years since I've heard them overseas so maybe they forgot about me, but when you're talking about money people have long memories.

73,

Chris  NU1O
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KC0W on February 15, 2023, 03:16:43 PM

It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world,

 I went Low Band DXing from Haiti a number of years ago as HH5/KC0W and only worked 160/80/40 meters CW. It would be the middle of the day in Europe & I would get calls from European stations who were 5NN+ on 160 meters. I'm happy to say not a single one of those stations went into my log.

 Unrelated, but perhaps the worst prefix someone could possibility have for CW is HH5. I operated in the 160 CW contest & had my keyer speed set to it's usual 40WPM. If I operated S&P NO ONE and I mean NO ONE could copy the callsign correctly.   :)

                                                                                  Tom KH0/KC0W   
     
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 15, 2023, 04:19:09 PM
Go Here: https://clublog.org/logsearch.php

Enter Ken's call (3Y7GIA) as log to search
Enter your call as KD8MJR

And stand by for bad new unfortunately


 Well I assume I might have one CW contact under Kens Bouvet Call sign but I don't even know how to confirm that one yet.
I got one on FT8 during the F/H Debacle and that seems to have gone into the Bin, so I wait here in limbo thinking that this one is a bust.

Crap!!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 15, 2023, 04:24:35 PM
It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award. Kinda dilutes the value of the award compared to those that did it from home, or a remote station that they built and own. But it's allowed, so to each his own ::).

Yep that has Zero value to me.  That is just about the same value as a WhatsApp call.


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 15, 2023, 04:31:27 PM
I did not get in anyone's way for my two CW QSO.
Has anyone stats on Dupes?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 15, 2023, 04:35:56 PM

After running the latest from Club Log, there's one eHammer with 5 Q's, lol.

A lot of the 1's are now 2's. 2's are now 3's - a 4, and now a 5!

Well done sir, well done!

NØUN

Still a 1!!

I listened to their request. It wasn't easy with all the pirates but I felt pretty confident my 30 cw Q was good.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 15, 2023, 04:42:45 PM
 :-[ im gingerly putting my had up i have 3 qso's from my modest station in noisy suburbia with a beam that is 9m in the air 17cw 15 cw and 17ft8 all made b4 the logs were uploaded. i had one dupe on 15m cw but i didnt even have a log entry for that qso. my problem was with my noise they were all esp contactsand i wasnt running big power jsut the leagal limit here 400w in cw and 100 w in ft8. so castigate me if you will
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: AJ8MH on February 15, 2023, 05:03:11 PM
I've been playing radio off-and-on since I was 11 years old.  I'm now 73, and I've done it all in this hobby, but only focused on DX since I retired in 2008.  (I even bought an 500 watt amp in 2012.)  Now, with the addition of Bouvet and Crozet, I'm really close to Honor Roll needing only one more from the following list:

 AVES ISLAND  YV0
 DPRK (NORTH KOREA)  P5
 GLORIOSO ISLAND  FT/G TO
 KERGUELEN ISLAND  FT8X
 MACQUARIE ISLAND  VK0-M
 PETER 1 ISLAND  3Y
 PRATAS ISLAND  BV9P
 SAN FELIX ISLAND  CE0
 SCARBOROUGH REEF  BS7
 TURKMENISTAN  EZ

I'm at 338 entities, counting deleted, and 330 current.  My thanks go out to the ops who have activated the rarer entities that brought my totals up over the past many years.  Thank you.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 15, 2023, 05:06:16 PM
Quote from: KC0W link=topic=138002.msg1287656#msg1287656 d
 

 Unrelated, but perhaps the [u
worst[/u] prefix someone could possibility have for CW is HH5. I operated in the 160 CW contest & had my keyer speed set to it's usual 40WPM. If I operated S&P NO ONE and I mean NO ONE could copy the callsign correctly.   :)

                                                                                  Tom KH0/KC0W   
     


You're right, that's a terrible CW call. Hope fully the suffix wasn't SIH  or something!

:-)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 05:28:22 PM
Who got 5, I only got 3  :'( I missed 10m and 30m, Never heard them anywhere else,

Trevor
EI2GLB

Not only did he get 5 Q's, but add 2 dupes!

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/clublog-pig.png)

And here we are a few days later after receiving over a dozen emails with snapshots about "why is NØUN in the FT8 pileups?", the "NØUN Fan Club" FT8 guys couldn't pirate me in for one good Q?  At least when Dom was at T33T he logged 5 NØUN FT8 Q's (since removed).  I was hoping you'd shoot yourself in the foot.  You know who you are.  You should've tried harder to get your own callsign(s) in the log.

You guys are slipping...

Bwahahahaha!

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on February 15, 2023, 05:43:53 PM
Well my 17M & 30M were good in the log. I worked them on 30M first, but never really knew if it was a good contact. There was so much DQRM that the only thing I heard was 7K and the timing was right, so I returned the 5NN TU. I wanted to get an insurance Q just to be sure. The second time I worked them was on 17M long path and at the time, there was virtually no DQRM and I heard my clearly, so I know it was a good contact. I never tried to work them again after that, although it would have been nice to work them on digital.

Unfortunately, there were a few in our DX club who thought they had worked Bouvet but instead worked Slim instead so didn't get in the log. I really feel sorry for them as there were a lot of pirates in this DX'pedition. Why someone goes out of their way to ruin the fun of someone else, I will never understand.

John K7KB 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 05:47:46 PM
$1.25 a minute plus $20.00 a month.  Heck, I'll let you remote into mine for $1 a minute, minimum 2 hours per day (exclusions apply).

https://www.remotehamradio.com/the-stations/ (https://www.remotehamradio.com/the-stations/)

And don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's.  But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 15, 2023, 05:54:43 PM
Guys like you always say that proposals for change "make it easier". But, you never seem to consider the possibility that things today just might be significantly harder than they used to be.
Significantly harder is one thing. Impossible, according to the rules of the government agency that control the entities in question, is another. Honor Roll should not be something you can earn in 5 or 10 years if you're starting from scratch. That would be insanity. But it should be achievable within 25 if you're skilled, lucky, and have a good station (redundancy alert).

If that proves true (and there is some evidence for it), then we need to think about what we want to do.  If DXing, overall, keeps ratcheting up the difficulty, it is someday going to die.  People are going to do it for a while, look at the end game, decide "never going to be me" and stop.  Happens already, always did; the question is "is this group increasing"?  Well, if we keep making it harder, it will.
Agreed. This is precisely my argument. Those will be be serious DXers (and hopefully DXpeditioners) tomorrow are millennials and older Gen-Zers. They have absolutely no use for the whole "that's the way it has to be or else" nonsense. Why do you think it's so difficult for businesses to find workers today? The younger workers who'd normally start in entry level positions have the ability and power to tell bosses to get stuffed and walk away. Guess how any new DXer will react when someone who's been DXing since the 50s or 60s tells them "how it has to be." I'll give you a hint: Two words, and they're not Merry Christmas.

Suppose we did adopt a rule for very expensive places like Bouvet or Peter I that allowed us to do Maritime Mobile as long as the boat was within (say) 15 miles of the island, and properly certified as such.
You're far more generous that me. I'd say within 250 or 500 metres of the high water mark or something like that, although to be fair I don't even play a maritime law lawyer on TV, so I frankly don't know what's legal or not in that regard.

Anyway a Q made that way would be useless to me.
It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award. Kinda dilutes the value of the award compared to those that did it from home, or a remote station that they built and own.
I'll answer that, since I've used RHR in DXing and I enjoy it. I used to feel exactly the same way, to be honest, but after listening to all the old arguments a zillion times I realized something important in all this, and that is I get the satisfaction of hearing my callsign and a 73 come back to me after successfully working a station, and I know my operating skill is what allowed it to happen just as much if not more than the nice hardware. The RHR hardware just equalizes the chance for me to work something by virtue of it hearing better. My K3s has as good a receiver as their Flex 6600s, my KPA-1500 is similar to their PGXL amps, so it's just a question of getting more signal into the radio than I can get from home, or more likely, using a receiver that is in an electrically quieter location. Yes, their towers are a lot higher and their arrays have more gain than my simple tribander and shorty-forty, but all the gain in the world is useless if you don't know what to do with it.

I'll confess to being mechanically incompetent and deathly afraid of heights unless I'm sitting in an airplane. I pay someone to erect and maintain my home antenna system because I cannot do it myself. Using a paid remote in a manner consistent with gov't regulations and the various programs' rules isn't substantially different than if I paid Lee or someone to put up a big tower on property I own, except I don't have to pay $250,000 to do it; I only have to pay for what I use.

Where I have to live for my wife's job, property is amongst the most expensive in the nation (35 miles west of New York City). A small house on a quarter acre is close to $600,000. Moving house just isn't an option and would result in my divorce and bankruptcy. So the alternative, in your mind, is "tough toenails, bunky, you're screwed. You gotta do it the same as a guy who has 10 acres on a mountaintop at 1000 feet elevation did it in 1968." Well <verb> that, I say.

I will use every single advantage that the rules allow to achieve my goals. The Honor Roll plaques on my wall do not "dilute the value" of the Honor Roll plaques on your wall if we both met the criteria for those achievements, and we both operated within the published rules. You do you, I do me. The rules say what they say, and they don't say what they don't say, and I refuse to hobble myself to fit someone else's ideal and neither should you anybody else. Embrace the wonderful new technologies and options that are available to us today! Practice ham spirit, be kind to your fellow ham, play by the rules and enjoy your accomplishments, however you value them, but don't spoil anybody else's fun because your rules from a different era—a moving target to be sure—were different. Maybe they should come up with all new awards with all new criteria. But so far that ain't the case.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 15, 2023, 05:55:36 PM
Quote
Resorting to a dupe to ensure someone is in the log, while somewhat understandable, doesn’t explain why the % of unique calls was so low unless everyone did that.

"So low?"

Go look at other expeditions.  I think you'll find that 45 per cent unique is actually a high number.

And if people who got through on days one through three, minimum, didn't work insurance, they were being too kind.

Before instant log checks, working an insurance call was normal.  Well, that's what we reverted to here.

I know the conditions were exceptionally difficult.  What I don't know is why they couldn't upload.  There's probably a reason, but it was (frankly) unreasonable to call for one QSO only when they didn't help us by uploading.   People do have a right to pursue their self interest, too.

It's easy to rail against insurance "after the fact."  But during a once in 32 year event when everything is uncertain?  Different story.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 15, 2023, 06:00:17 PM
Quote
And don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's.  But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...

Tell you what. Why don't you and your like-minded friends start a thread called:  "Everyone who doesn't DX like I do is a cheater."

Your constant, fact-free accusations are tiresome.  Typical "keyboard warrior" stuff.  My guess is, you'd never do that in person.

So, take your vitriol to your own thread.  The rest of us get tired of you slandering people without evidence.

Pro tip:  Don't ever move to Britain.  They would eat your sort alive in slander suits.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 15, 2023, 06:03:41 PM
$1.25 a minute plus $20.00 a month.  Heck, I'll let you remote into mine for $1 a minute, minimum 2 hours per day (exclusions apply).
Cheaper to subscribe for a year ($100/yr), and there are a ton of smaller stations that are a lot cheaper.

And don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's.  But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...
I bet very few people even "remember" that rule exists, unfortunately.

The thing with RHR that really gets under my skin is that, although legal/acceptable, working rare ones on the 160 when you yourself are in full daylight. I guess that's my personal line in the sand. But it's legal, so more power to those who want to do it that way, I guess.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 15, 2023, 06:17:45 PM

Significantly harder is one thing. Impossible, according to the rules of the government agency that control the entities in question, is another.

When was there ever a time when that was not true for some places?


Quote
Honor Roll should not be something you can earn in 5 or 10 years if you're starting from scratch.

When was that ever possible?

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 06:21:29 PM
$1.25 a minute plus $20.00 a month.  Heck, I'll let you remote into mine for $1 a minute, minimum 2 hours per day (exclusions apply).
Cheaper to subscribe for a year ($100/yr), and there are a ton of smaller stations that are a lot cheaper.

And don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's.  But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...
I bet very few people even "remember" that rule exists, unfortunately.

The thing with RHR that really gets under my skin is that, although legal/acceptable, working rare ones on the 160 when you yourself are in full daylight. I guess that's my personal line in the sand. But it's legal, so more power to those who want to do it that way, I guess.

I am all set to operate remote from Fiji, and when the time comes remote from Rotuma, and several other entities.  Dedicated gear, software, configuration, license & callsign in hand.  Got the latency down to a few milliseconds.  Yet I hesitate.  Why?  Look at the DX Clusters.  Look at 3Y0J Facebook comments.  I am not convinced, although "legal", why would I open myself up to all these armchair idiots?  Why would I go out of my way to work Phone or CW and give these clowns a Q?  They practically hung Ken and his Group.  They practically hang Dom everywhere he goes (although it is funny to me to see folks begging Dom to go to Bouvet now).

Maybe if I get bored and feel like stabbing myself in the eyes with a sharp object I may do it.  Maybe not.  We'll see.

NØUN


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 15, 2023, 06:40:05 PM


I am all set to operate remote from Fiji,…


Maybe if I get bored and feel like stabbing myself in the eyes with a sharp object I may do it.  Maybe not.  We'll see.

NØUN
You might get some donations for doing either one
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 15, 2023, 06:42:33 PM

I am all set to operate remote from Fiji, and when the time comes remote from Rotuma, and several other entities.  Dedicated gear, software, configuration, license & callsign in hand.  Got the latency down to a few milliseconds.  Yet I hesitate.  Why?  Look at the DX Clusters.  Look at 3Y0J Facebook comments.  I am not convinced, although "legal", why would I open myself up to all these armchair idiots?  Why would I go out of my way to work Phone or CW and give these clowns a Q?  They practically hung Ken and his Group.  They practically hang Dom everywhere he goes (although it is funny to me to see folks begging Dom to go to Bouvet now).

Maybe if I get bored and feel like stabbing myself in the eyes with a sharp object I may do it.  Maybe not.  We'll see.

NØUN

Not that I am doubting that you did your due diligence but I don't even understand how this can be legal.

So your saying a single operator with five Strong Sherpa type workers  could activate Peter 1st using one tent  and setup 6 remote stations via Starlink and have twelve operators sitting in the USA running the stations 24/7?
This would be considered legal by the ARRL?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 06:51:06 PM

I am all set to operate remote from Fiji, and when the time comes remote from Rotuma, and several other entities.  Dedicated gear, software, configuration, license & callsign in hand.  Got the latency down to a few milliseconds.  Yet I hesitate.  Why?  Look at the DX Clusters.  Look at 3Y0J Facebook comments.  I am not convinced, although "legal", why would I open myself up to all these armchair idiots?  Why would I go out of my way to work Phone or CW and give these clowns a Q?  They practically hung Ken and his Group.  They practically hang Dom everywhere he goes (although it is funny to me to see folks begging Dom to go to Bouvet now).

Maybe if I get bored and feel like stabbing myself in the eyes with a sharp object I may do it.  Maybe not.  We'll see.

NØUN

Not that I am doubting that you did your due diligence but I don't even understand how this can be legal.

So your saying a single operator with five Strong Sherpa type workers  could activate Peter 1st using one tent  and setup 6 remote stations via Starlink and have twelve operators sitting in the USA running the stations 24/7?
This would be considered legal by the ARRL?

Yep. Properly licensed in the entity the RF is generated and received, with an Internet connection to that station, with (and in some case without) another properly licensed operator at that remote station.

There are stations everywhere around the world that one can log in and operate under the control operators callsign, or their own.

It's nothing new, its been done before.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 07:11:15 PM
Here's a remote operation from a rare one nobody should ever have forgotten...

https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld (https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 15, 2023, 07:13:25 PM
Here's a remote operation from a rare one nobody should ever have forgotten...

https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld (https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld)

NØUN

Well I know I haven't, lol.

Good luck with 3D2UN.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W4AMP on February 15, 2023, 07:23:54 PM

Quote
And don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's.  But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...

Tell you what. Why don't you and your like-minded friends start a thread called:  "Everyone who doesn't DX like I do is a cheater."

Your constant, fact-free accusations are tiresome.  Typical "keyboard warrior" stuff.  My guess is, you'd never do that in person.

So, take your vitriol to your own thread.  The rest of us get tired of you slandering people without evidence.

Pro tip:  Don't ever move to Britain.  They would eat your sort alive in slander suits.

(https://cdn-bio.qrz.com/r/wo7r/Larry_Renfest_Headshot_tif_0.jpg)


BBBWWWAAAAAHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 15, 2023, 07:38:13 PM
After running the latest from Club Log, there's one eHammer with 5 Q's, lol.

A lot of the 1's are now 2's. 2's are now 3's - a 4, and now a 5!

Well done sir, well done!

NØUN
There's a certain Asian station that has 8 QSOs in the log with 3Y0J...
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 15, 2023, 07:42:57 PM
Here's a remote operation from a rare one nobody should ever have forgotten...

https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld (https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld)

NØUN

Well I guess you really do learn something new everyday!
At this point the hobby has almost hit rock bottom. They might as well just let satellite contacts count for DXCC.
 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 15, 2023, 07:51:00 PM
Quote
When was there ever a time when that was not true for some places?

In past arguments, never.

I was told that in the old dark days that even places like Albania had occasional "demonstrations" and that ham radio was never entirely prohibited.  This was, until recently, true of P5 as well.

The whole EZ thing is rather newer and more comprehensive.

In any case, what happened before and what is happening now don't correlate.

It took the fall of the Berlin Wall and its aftermath to open up Albania.  If it had turned out like Cuba, it would still be the province of rare and infrequent "demonstrations".

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 07:56:59 PM
Here's a remote operation from a rare one nobody should ever have forgotten...

https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld (https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld)

NØUN

Well I know I haven't, lol.

Good luck with 3D2UN.

Thanks!  You did one helluva' job!  You're the "Godfather" of Remote DX!

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KM4SII on February 15, 2023, 08:02:35 PM
It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award. Kinda dilutes the value of the award compared to those that did it from home, or a remote station that they built and own. But it's allowed, so to each his own ::).
I do not have an issue with people who operate remote stations, including those on RHR. If the operator has the money and wants to have fun playing on these big remote stations, I say have at it. As some of you know, I am a member of the RHR Youth Program and my station is part of their youth network, allowing other youth hams (many of whom may not have a home station of their own) to be able to get on the air and have some HF fun.

While I do have access to a number of remotes across the US as part of the youth program, I have decided that I personally would rather do all of my DXing from my home QTH. Again, I have nothing against those who remote into stations owned by others, but I get greater satisfaction from making the QSOs with my own station with my own gear. I do occasionally use the remotes -- generally with calls other than my own for contests and special events -- but if I use my own call, it is usually just to work a friend or some very common DX I have worked dozens of times from home. I try not to work any new DX on the remotes, and I do not include QSOs made from a remote in my DXCC totals. As far as I am aware of, the only slot I have worked on a remote and not from my home QTH is VP6 on 20m SSB (they called me so I wasn't going to ignore them  ;D ). But when listing my band totals, I do not include that QSO as I have chosen only to let QSOs made from my home QTH "count."

Could I have worked 3Y0J from one of the remotes? Probably. But I stuck it out and only called from home and do not regret that decision at all even though I was not able to make it in the log. Do I have anything against those who worked 3Y0J on one of the remotes? Absolutely not. The technology is there and is another tool in the toolbox for DXers to use if they please!

Anyways, I know this is a little off-topic, but just thought I would share my thoughts.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 15, 2023, 08:29:06 PM
Quote
It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award.

So, you confess to a weak imagination then?

Let me supply just one example:

Suppose you're a 75 year old ham.  You are in frail health.  You had a station, but you sold out to pay for your medical care.  You still have a computer and the internet and, however shakily, you can still operate the computer. 

There are still some ham goals that interest you, especially including DXing.

Choice one: Give up ham radio forever, sit in your drool, and watch the soaps.

Choice two: Sign up for RHR and see if you can still reach some of those goals, particularly in DXing.

Choice two may not have been what you would have wanted at age 20, but it is available at age 75.   For a lot of people, something beats nothing and "purity" gives way to reality.

RHR is there for people who are "not you" and have trade-offs in life that are "not yours".
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 15, 2023, 08:53:52 PM
Significantly harder is one thing. Impossible, according to the rules of the government agency that control the entities in question, is another.
When was there ever a time when that was not true for some places?
If it's a question of a few places then there is no issue. Before it was China, Albania and maybe one or two others. Bhutan, P5. Top of the Honor Roll was not attainable throughout that entire time. However basic Honor Roll certainly was. It wasn't easy, but for most of the post-war period a decent station and dedication plus skill could get you on the HR with a lot of blood sweat and tears. For a new DXer, getting on the Honor Roll was possible until very recently. I started in 2001 and Tromelin got me onto the mixed and phone HR in October 2014. So 13 years. But ever since there's been wave after wave of environmental closures. Countries who's governments have officially stated that <entity> is now completely off limits to human recreational activity. Those entities were able to be activated before; they no longer are and will likely not be for generations, if ever. There are now far more than 10 entities that fall into that category, making basic entry-level HR an impossibility for someone starting today with zero entities worked.

Honor Roll should not be something you can earn in 5 or 10 years if you're starting from scratch.
When was that ever possible?
It may have been for a brief while, but not likely. Probably around 1999-2019 or so, if ever. But there are many here who think any new proposals or revisions will lead to precisely that. The sky is falling, we're throwing every standard out the window. Just as every other BadThing™ was going to spell the end of amateur radio. Every single one of those dire predictions was wrong and this one is too.

There can only really be one side of this argument that will win; there's not a whole lot of room for compromise. Keep everything status quo and keep things difficult by 1995 standards. The old timers will be happy—until they pass away in a few years or become inactive, and as a result of which we'll lose scores of potential new DXers (and DXpeditioners) that are necessary to keep the program alive.

Or else reasonable reforms to the program are instituted like a reduced HR threshold or an inactives list, maritime mobile activations, etc, that will reflect the DXing landscape and political realities we all now face. The old guard will throw a collection conniption and threaten to hang up their straight keys and D-104s forever (probably less than 10% will, of course, the next time someone goes to Bouvet or Peter 1), but newly minted QRPers will see a path ahead that's going to be a tough but possible road to follow.

How many of those who are adamant about never, ever changing the DXCC program's rules already have the following entities confirmed and verified: Turkmenistan, Navassa, Desecheo, Johnston Atoll, Kermadec Island, NZ Sub-Antarctic Islands (Auckland-Campbell), St. Peter and Paul Rocks, Syria, North Korea, Pratas, San Felix, Conway Reef, Scarborough Reef, and Kerguelen Islands. Well guess what. That's 14 that will probably not be active for decades, if ever, and I know I'm leaving a few off that list.

Maybe we'll get lucky and see 4 or 5 of them open up, and if they do great. But let's say for the sake of discussion that they don't open for 30 years, and no new entities are added in that time. Nobody who had earned their license after 2020 will be able to get on the Honor Roll until at least the year 2050. The old guard will be long gone (me included, probably) so who'll be left to work the DX and be the DX? You think all those young-in-2023 hams who were disincentivized to continue pursing DXCC awards will stick around? The status quo will hurt DXing long-term. Of that I am 100% certain. Modernizing it and giving new hams a path to success is the only way.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on February 15, 2023, 09:02:31 PM
I can give another example. We just had a club member lose his house to a fire. Pretty much lost everything, including the shack. So for him to work 3Y0J, he had to use RHR to do so. I certainly don't blame him for doing so, and glad that option is available to those who need to use it. And once you look at it from a financial perspective, it's not that expensive. Consider how much money we spend putting up towers, antennas, amplifiers, radios, and other equipment to get on the air vs. the costs for RHR and you have to wonder what is really the best use of your money and time.

John K7KB 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 15, 2023, 09:10:31 PM
I am all set to operate remote from Fiji, and when the time comes remote from Rotuma, and several other entities.  Dedicated gear, software, configuration, license & callsign in hand.  Got the latency down to a few milliseconds.  Yet I hesitate.  Why?  Look at the DX Clusters.  Look at 3Y0J Facebook comments.  I am not convinced, although "legal", why would I open myself up to all these armchair idiots?  Why would I go out of my way to work Phone or CW and give these clowns a Q?  They practically hung Ken and his Group.  They practically hang Dom everywhere he goes (although it is funny to me to see folks begging Dom to go to Bouvet now).


Because DX IS. That's why. Because idiots who'd rather whinge and moan about the purity and sanctity of DXing historical practices don't matter. What are the whiners going to do? Not work you? Their loss, not yours. Guess what, they probably don't need Fiji or Rotuma anyways. And how many whiny geezers are comfortable opening their purse strings and allow the moths to fly out long enough to cough up $2 for a direct confirmation or a $5 donation for something they need. Hell, if you can work me on 160 from either or both of these places I'll give you a nice donation. I'm missing a bunch from the Pacific.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 09:13:15 PM
Here's a remote operation from a rare one nobody should ever have forgotten...

https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld (https://www.arrl.org/news/the-other-heard-island-dxpedition-vk0ld)

NØUN

Well I know I haven't, lol.

Good luck with 3D2UN.

Just did a short 40 minute run on 14.004.  Asia, NA, EU.  Pretty neat.  Kept it simple at 24WPM and opened up the RX filter a bit. Listened UP 1.

Won't be long they'll be a waiting line to be the remote op from their nice warm shack.

Was funny I wore my Heil Headset and kept reaching for my FTDX101MP controls.

And no, I did not work myself.  Yet, anyway.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 15, 2023, 09:21:47 PM
Won't be long they'll be a waiting line to be the remote op from their nice warm shack.

Even 7 years ago (wow!) when I did VK0LD, I thought offering access to "be the DX" was a logical progression for helping to fund DXpeditions.  The technology has moved on so far during that time that it's probably ripe about now.  Doing it via geostationary satellites was honestly pushing the thing to the limit.  The lower LEO latency from something like Starlink could be a game changer.

A year or so ago, I predicted on this forum that it was only a matter of time before we saw a predominantly-remote DXpedition, and that it would come from an unexpected direction.  Maybe that time is finally upon us?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 15, 2023, 09:26:00 PM
Time for me to repost my chart/assessment of the state of the (then) top 25 DXCCs.  I did this first a year or two ago.  The top DXCCs may or may not have swapped a few positions.  The problem children remain the same.

This is, as far as I know how, a generous listing.  I rate many places a "wash" (no harder, no easier than the past) that probably are actually at least a bit harder.  And, good news, Crozet and even the imperfect Bouvet makes some kind of improvement over my last posting.  So, things are, on balance, slightly less bleak than the last time I did this.

It is still hard not to conclude that DXing is anything but harder than it was in, say, what I regard as the golden years of around 1989 to about 2006 when we had lots of activations of all sorts of places that we have seen little or nothing from since.  If your guide post is "I started in 2006", this list looks bleaker than I rate it here.

Most WPrefixCountryLast ActivatedLast Major ActivationMain ProblemMore/Less Difficult?
1P5DPRK (NORTH KOREA)Small numbers?NeverPoliticsWash at best
23Y/BBOUVET ISLAND2023-02-132023-02-13Expense, Permissions, maybe heliHarder (see also failures, only really biggie Jan '90)
3FT5/WCROZET ISLAND2023-03-152023-03-15Permissions?Recent Activation, 2 in 15 years
4BS7HSCARBOROUGH REEF2007-05-052007-05-05Politics, WarHarder
5CE0XSAN FELIX ISLANDS1991-04-25NeverPoliticsWash
6BV9PPRATAS ISLAND2000-04-122000-04-12PoliticsWash
7KH7KKURE ISLAND2005-09-252005-09-25PermissionsWash at best, USFW hires??
8KH3JOHNSTON ISLAND2003-06-03NeverPermissionsWash at best, USFW hires, major pollution??
93Y/PPETER 1 ISLAND2006-02-192006-02-19Expense, HelicopterHarder, Some stirrings of plans
10FT5/XKERGUELEN ISLAND2005-03-202005-03-20ExpenseWash
11FT/GGLORIOSO ISLAND2009-09-152009-09-15Permissions?Recent Activation
12VK0MMACQUARIE ISLANDActiveNeverExpense but Recent ResidentEasier
13YV0AVES ISLAND2006-04-282006-04-28PermissionsWash
14KH4MIDWAY ISLAND2009-10-132009-10-13PermissionsWash at best
15ZS8PRINCE EDWARD & MARION ISLANDS1989-05-29Never???Wash at best
16PY0SSAINT PETER AND PAUL ROCKS2012-11-232012-11-23Permissions?Wash
17PY0TTRINDADE & MARTIM VAZ ISLANDS2015-04-042002-02-18Permissions, Military AdminWash, 7K in 2015
18KP5DESECHEO ISLAND2009-02-272009-02-27Permissions, Helicopter Harder because of helis & USFWS "hires"
19SV/AMOUNT ATHOSActiveNeverPermissionsWash
20VP8SSOUTH SANDWICH ISLANDS2016-01-252016-01-25Expense but Recent ActivationWash
21KH5PALMYRA & JARVIS ISLANDS2016-01-262016-01-26PermissionsWash at best, USFW hires??
22ZL9NEW ZEALAND SUBANTARCTIC ISLANDS2016-01-072016-01-07PermissionsHarder; Briefly easier, expanded from just Cambell then tough permisisons
23EZTURKMENISTAN2006-12-31Never?Politics, prohibited completelyHarder, more thorough than ZA or P5 prohibitions
24FK/CCHESTERFIELD IS.2015-10-112015-10-11PermissionsWash at best; reasonable expedition count since 2000 but stricter rules now.
25YKSYRIAResidentNeverWarCall it wash; never very active, war is short term problem??
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 09:48:57 PM
Won't be long they'll be a waiting line to be the remote op from their nice warm shack.

Even 7 years ago (wow!) when I did VK0LD, I thought offering access to "be the DX" was a logical progression for helping to fund DXpeditions.  The technology has moved on so far during that time that it's probably ripe about now.  Doing it via geostationary satellites was honestly pushing the thing to the limit.  The lower LEO latency from something like Starlink could be a game changer.

A year or so ago, I predicted on this forum that it was only a matter of time before we saw a predominantly-remote DXpedition, and that it would come from an unexpected direction.  Maybe that time is finally upon us?

Stay tuned, lol.  That is soooo much closer than most think.  For now in the near future it'll be a dedicated radio/amp/antenna setup alongside the DXpeditioners station(s) - operated from a remote QTH right here at my keyboard.  The good thing about my Fijian license (and others) is they allow me to operate in several entities in the Pacific.

I even uploaded my log to Club Log already from that short demonstration. I'll work on minimizing the process of DXCC accreditation over the next few weeks.  Welcome to 2023!

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 15, 2023, 10:15:10 PM
Further to Larry's List, may I add the following; Mellish Reef (35) may not see another DXpedition under the current Coral Sea Islands Administration. Willis Island is also under the same administration, and recent approaches for a DXpedition have been rejected. Thankfully, there is a manned Meteorological Station on Willis, and we are blessed to have Sands operating there as VK9WX until the end of April.
Macquarie Island (13) is only active when a scientific expedition member is both a licenced amateur and is inclined to face massive pileups. A DXpedition there is not possible.
Another one that is moving up the List is Kermadec (27) that may also be under a similar ban as Coral Sea Islands.
I'm sure I read that St Peter and Paul Rocks (16) saw its last DXpedition in 2012?
The list of NOs is growing. Nobody has announced plans for any of the Top 27 in the Most Wanted List, and all of those will be at least a year in the planning. Let's hope some have been planned in secret and we are about to have a nice sprinkling of at least a couple of them a year over this rather promising Solar Peak.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 15, 2023, 10:27:02 PM
Looking through the comments on the 3Y0J Facebook Group page, there are A LOT of "not in log" (NIL) from Charles M0OXO the QSL Manager.

Some folks thought they worked them solid once.  Some folks worked them twice, even more - NIL.

I heard countless times somebody would call on the 3Y0J TX frequency and somebody other than 3Y0J would use their call, give a 5NN, even a TU after the fact.

I noticed KO8SCA's Tracker appears to be off. I saw it out a mile or two from shore yesterday, but now it appears off.

With February a short month, still 1,600 miles is a long voyage. At 6 MPH that's still 11 days at sea.  These guys have to be absolutely wrecked after everything they've been through.  Even the videos wear me out watching them.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 16, 2023, 12:17:48 AM
I need Fiji on a load of bands Wayne so look forward to working you, I've heard Dom on 20m a few times but not on any other band,
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 16, 2023, 12:32:58 AM
Quote
I'm sure I read that St Peter and Paul Rocks (16) saw its last DXpedition in 2012?

Thanks for your info, I will add it to my notes.

Yes, 2012 is the most recent St Peter and Paul exped I have.  But it doesn't make my "harder" list because I am currently looking for longer gaps.  This is part of what I meant by a "generous" rating.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 16, 2023, 03:12:03 AM
When I bought this place I didn't know what takeoff angle and HF Terrain analysis was. If I did, 100% I wouldn't have considered it. Ask Zev what it's like operating from here. Or come try it yourself—I could use another op for ARRL-CW. Europe from my QTH is a slog. I can't hear the 100W/wire guys clearly enough to work, just the big mega-stations and kW/triband types from over there. Getting a run going is very, very difficult so I'm 90% S&P. Quite honestly, even in the best conditions, 1.5M to 2M is as good as score as you'll ever see me able to post.

Not really my problem, is it?  Basic terrain analysis was available back in the early 90s by Brian Beesley.  Even if one didn't want to spend the small amount of $ for the program (that shouldn't have been a problem for you - since you spent $50,000 on your station), there were always the USGS survey maps that you were able to purchase.   

Zev appears to not have any problems.  When he was running from your station, he was posting that many juicy mults called in. 

Why should I?  I have a perfectly good station that has cost me far less than $50,000 in which I bought much of it used, PERIOD.  I took care in finding it by looking at that terrain map, as well as noise and a location that was not close to other contesters.  Why would I want to drive 2 hours to a supposedly inferior QTH?   

Also remember that I work from this same desk typically 60 to 80 hours a week, and there are some weekends I'm just so wiped out that I can't stomach the thought of sitting at my work desk for another two days straight, but I do it for FRC and try to soldier on until I just can't any more. Yeah, excuses, excuses, excuses...but my passion in radio is DXing and awards chasing, not contesting. Contesting can be fun, and I love FRC, but after operating from a crap location for 16 or so years I've hit a wall and it's just not a pleasant experience if you want to know the ghods' honest truth. Maybe I'd do better being an op in a big M/M, or certainly from a DX location with big antennas and power but from here? Meh.

Again, not my problem.  I work at a desk as well, which happens to be behind my operating desk. 

There are plenty of other contesters that have smaller stations with other limitations and have spent far less than your $50,000 PERIOD, do just as well, do not whine, and and do not have the excuses that you come up with. 

You have said on multiple occasions - as well as in this thread - that you'll do "whatever it takes" to work a new DX country, as well as pontificating to others to do the same.  That must also include sitting at that desk for another two days after working 60-80 hours a week, because "DX IS."   

Maybe you should reconsider your contest priorities. 

Like I said, I'll challenge anybody to come up here and sit in this chair for a few hours in CQWW or ARRL-DX, especially Friday night, and see how fun it is to have every big 1x2 and 2x1 east coast callsign beat you like a drum in every single mult pileup. And no, I'm not changing my callsign, but I'm often sorely tempted after an SSB contest.

Why don't you put out an open call to have one or a few people who are antenna restricted, haven't spent $50,000 on their station, or otherwise would put in a lower score, operate your station? 

Simple stations with high T/O angles just can't compete effectively with the big guns. I have trouble with the low-angle DX and outside of contests; a semi-rare one that would probably take you an a few minutes or half an hour to work often takes me many hours or I don't get through until the next day, even with about 1350-1400W. Now condense that to needed mults, and do it 300 times in the roughly 30 or so hours I can play. C'mon up and try it. It'll be fun!

Simple stations cost far less than $50,000 PERIOD.  You must be running QRP, since you stated previously that 1499.5 watts is "QRP." 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 16, 2023, 03:56:07 AM
I think we have ventured pretty far off of the 3Y0J topic here.

Time to start a new thread.  3Y0J is done.

Ed N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 16, 2023, 05:19:05 AM
I think we have ventured pretty far off of the 3Y0J topic here.

Time to start a new thread.  3Y0J is done.

Ed N1UR
Wait a minute! We need to complain about FT8 a bit more!  ;D
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 16, 2023, 06:50:47 AM
"3Y0J Bouvet Island 2023 Update:

Saying Goodbye To Bouvet Island16 FEB 2023 14:00 UTC

The anchor is up. The engine is on. Marama is sailing away from Bouvet Island and heading to Cape Town, South Africa. Six 3Y0J Team members bid the island farewell on deck. The rest are below deck in their bunks preparing for what is reported to be two days of rough seas. Thank you 3Y0J Team and the Crew of Marama. We wish you Fair Winds and Following Seas.

73.."
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 16, 2023, 07:16:46 AM
Significantly harder is one thing. Impossible, according to the rules of the government agency that control the entities in question, is another.
When was there ever a time when that was not true for some places?
If it's a question of a few places then there is no issue. Before it was China, Albania and maybe one or two others. Bhutan, P5. Top of the Honor Roll was not attainable throughout that entire time. However basic Honor Roll certainly was. It wasn't easy, but for most of the post-war period a decent station and dedication plus skill could get you on the HR with a lot of blood sweat and tears. For a new DXer, getting on the Honor Roll was possible until very recently. I started in 2001 and Tromelin got me onto the mixed and phone HR in October 2014. So 13 years. But ever since there's been wave after wave of environmental closures. Countries who's governments have officially stated that <entity> is now completely off limits to human recreational activity. Those entities were able to be activated before; they no longer are and will likely not be for generations, if ever. There are now far more than 10 entities that fall into that category, making basic entry-level HR an impossibility for someone starting today with zero entities worked.

Honor Roll should not be something you can earn in 5 or 10 years if you're starting from scratch.
When was that ever possible?
It may have been for a brief while, but not likely. Probably around 1999-2019 or so, if ever. But there are many here who think any new proposals or revisions will lead to precisely that. The sky is falling, we're throwing every standard out the window. Just as every other BadThing™ was going to spell the end of amateur radio. Every single one of those dire predictions was wrong and this one is too.

There can only really be one side of this argument that will win; there's not a whole lot of room for compromise. Keep everything status quo and keep things difficult by 1995 standards. The old timers will be happy—until they pass away in a few years or become inactive, and as a result of which we'll lose scores of potential new DXers (and DXpeditioners) that are necessary to keep the program alive.

Or else reasonable reforms to the program are instituted like a reduced HR threshold or an inactives list, maritime mobile activations, etc, that will reflect the DXing landscape and political realities we all now face. The old guard will throw a collection conniption and threaten to hang up their straight keys and D-104s forever (probably less than 10% will, of course, the next time someone goes to Bouvet or Peter 1), but newly minted QRPers will see a path ahead that's going to be a tough but possible road to follow.

How many of those who are adamant about never, ever changing the DXCC program's rules already have the following entities confirmed and verified: Turkmenistan, Navassa, Desecheo, Johnston Atoll, Kermadec Island, NZ Sub-Antarctic Islands (Auckland-Campbell), St. Peter and Paul Rocks, Syria, North Korea, Pratas, San Felix, Conway Reef, Scarborough Reef, and Kerguelen Islands. Well guess what. That's 14 that will probably not be active for decades, if ever, and I know I'm leaving a few off that list.

Maybe we'll get lucky and see 4 or 5 of them open up, and if they do great. But let's say for the sake of discussion that they don't open for 30 years, and no new entities are added in that time. Nobody who had earned their license after 2020 will be able to get on the Honor Roll until at least the year 2050. The old guard will be long gone (me included, probably) so who'll be left to work the DX and be the DX? You think all those young-in-2023 hams who were disincentivized to continue pursing DXCC awards will stick around? The status quo will hurt DXing long-term. Of that I am 100% certain. Modernizing it and giving new hams a path to success is the only way.

As they say, it does take a lot of words to rationalize the indefensible.

Apparently it’s more fashionable these days to profess impatience, pretend you can’t do something and enumerate a laundry list of whys which is precisely what we see posted above.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7JQ on February 16, 2023, 07:22:52 AM
Quote
It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award.

So, you confess to a weak imagination then?

Let me supply just one example:

Suppose you're a 75 year old ham.  You are in frail health.  You had a station, but you sold out to pay for your medical care.  You still have a computer and the internet and, however shakily, you can still operate the computer. 

There are still some ham goals that interest you, especially including DXing.

Choice one: Give up ham radio forever, sit in your drool, and watch the soaps.

Choice two: Sign up for RHR and see if you can still reach some of those goals, particularly in DXing.

Choice two may not have been what you would have wanted at age 20, but it is available at age 75.   For a lot of people, something beats nothing and "purity" gives way to reality.

RHR is there for people who are "not you" and have trade-offs in life that are "not yours".

No, at 77 I still have a very vivid imagination, Mr. Opinionated…you seem to have an argument for everything on these forums. And it’s always your way or the highway ;). Nothing to do with my imagination.

My point was using *pay-for-play* remote stations to claim *individual credit  for an award/certificate*. But the rules allow it. Personally, I wouldn’t derive a sense of accomplishment doing things that way. But if you live in an antenna restricted HOA, or now at the ripe old age of 75 sitting in an assisted living facility, drooling on your bib and wanting to still experience general ham radio operation, why not RHR? It’s definitely a viable option.

Someone else on here stated that even though he has a K3S, KPA-1500, tower with a tribander and 40M yagi, he still uses RHR. He has his reasons. Not for me to judge.

I live in a HOA with antenna prohibitions here in AZ, and use two stealth screwdriver antennas and attic dipoles for SO2R contest operations. I’ve been able to achieve some fairly decent contest scores and although I’m not a paper/award chaser, I’m closing in on 300 DXCC entities with my current setup. I just check them off on a list, knowing I worked them.

You should consider just stating your opinions, without chiding others for theirs. No need to pass judgement on my “imagination”…you don’t know me.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 16, 2023, 07:48:47 AM

Quote
And don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's.  But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...

Tell you what. Why don't you and your like-minded friends start a thread called:  "Everyone who doesn't DX like I do is a cheater."

Your constant, fact-free accusations are tiresome.  Typical "keyboard warrior" stuff.  My guess is, you'd never do that in person.

So, take your vitriol to your own thread.  The rest of us get tired of you slandering people without evidence.

Pro tip:  Don't ever move to Britain.  They would eat your sort alive in slander suits.

(https://cdn-bio.qrz.com/r/wo7r/Larry_Renfest_Headshot_tif_0.jpg)


BBBWWWAAAAAHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

I put little lord fauntleroy on Ignore long ago as nothing he has to say deserves my reply.  That is until you quoted some of his worthless drivel, and now I can't unsee that.

What a way to start the day. Thanks a whole lot.

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 16, 2023, 08:05:43 AM
Quote
It beats me how anyone can derive satisfaction/accomplishment using a pay-for-play RHR legal limit/stacked array station in various prime locations around the world, and claim credit for an award.

So, you confess to a weak imagination then?

Let me supply just one example:

Suppose you're a 75 year old ham.  You are in frail health.  You had a station, but you sold out to pay for your medical care.  You still have a computer and the internet and, however shakily, you can still operate the computer. 

There are still some ham goals that interest you, especially including DXing.

Choice one: Give up ham radio forever, sit in your drool, and watch the soaps.

Choice two: Sign up for RHR and see if you can still reach some of those goals, particularly in DXing.

Choice two may not have been what you would have wanted at age 20, but it is available at age 75.   For a lot of people, something beats nothing and "purity" gives way to reality.

RHR is there for people who are "not you" and have trade-offs in life that are "not yours".

No, at 77 I still have a very vivid imagination, Mr. Opinionated…you seem to have an argument for everything on these forums. And it’s always your way or the highway ;). Nothing to do with my imagination.

My point was using *pay-for-play* remote stations to claim *individual credit  for an award/certificate*. But the rules allow it. Personally, I wouldn’t derive a sense of accomplishment doing things that way. But if you live in an antenna restricted HOA, or now at the ripe old age of 75 sitting in an assisted living facility, drooling on your bib and wanting to still experience general ham radio operation, why not RHR? It’s definitely a viable option.

Someone else on here stated that even though he has a K3S, KPA-1500, tower with a tribander and 40M yagi, he still uses RHR. He has his reasons. Not for me to judge.

I live in a HOA with antenna prohibitions here in AZ, and use two stealth screwdriver antennas and attic dipoles for SO2R contest operations. I’ve been able to achieve some fairly decent contest scores and although I’m not a paper/award chaser, I’m closing in on 300 DXCC entities with my current setup. I just check them off on a list, knowing I worked them.

You should consider just stating your opinions, without chiding others for theirs. No need to pass judgement on my “imagination”…you don’t know me.
I’m sure you have heard the cliche - “when you win a fight with a skunk, even when you win, you lose”
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 16, 2023, 09:18:09 AM
Waiting to see who on here who gets the Piggy award  ;D

(https://i.postimg.cc/L861Cb6f/piggies.png)

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W4AMP on February 16, 2023, 09:21:16 AM

Quote
And don't worry you Internet SDR guys - your DXCC don't count listening through SDR's.  But I'm betting you turned them in anyway...

Tell you what. Why don't you and your like-minded friends start a thread called:  "Everyone who doesn't DX like I do is a cheater."

Your constant, fact-free accusations are tiresome.  Typical "keyboard warrior" stuff.  My guess is, you'd never do that in person.

So, take your vitriol to your own thread.  The rest of us get tired of you slandering people without evidence.

Pro tip:  Don't ever move to Britain.  They would eat your sort alive in slander suits.

(https://cdn-bio.qrz.com/r/wo7r/Larry_Renfest_Headshot_tif_0.jpg)


BBBWWWAAAAAHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

I put little lord fauntleroy on Ignore long ago as nothing he has to say deserves my reply.  That is until you quoted some of his worthless drivel, and now I can't unsee that.

What a way to start the day. Thanks a whole lot.

NØUN

Sorry about that. Most of his posts are personal attacks and he seems to think he decides who posts here. I plonked him as well.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 16, 2023, 09:23:56 AM
Not really my problem, is it?
Then why comment?

Basic terrain analysis was available back in the early 90s by Brian Beesley.
Because I didn't know what that was. I'd only been active on HF for four years at that point and I had never heard of HFTA. And boy you really seem to be fixated on how much money someone else paid for their station. You may want to seek treatment for that. You want to know the real price of my HF station? The loss of my mother. I had a bit left over after inheriting my parents' meagre life savings to put a small down payment on my house and buy some radio gear and a used Honda. I'd far prefer to be using my old Kenwood POS and still be able to visit my mom every week. Trust me on this.

Zev appears to not have any problems.  When he was running from your station, he was posting that many juicy mults called in.
Zev's an amazing CW op. I'm not. I work the same mults (usually) if I'm in the chair. But next time you see him ask him how difficult it is to operate SSB from here. He's also never here at night, when I'm getting slaughtered on 40 and 80. My best-ever SSB Friday night was 250-275 QSOs from start until I go to bed at 2. More typically it's 100-150. Yes, it's really that bad.

Why should I?
...<snip>
I took care in finding it by looking at that terrain map, as well as noise and a location that was not close to other contesters.
Why would I want to drive 2 hours to a supposedly inferior QTH?
One word: empathy. Maybe, just maybe you'll understand what it's like to be in someone else's less-comfortable shoes. There aren't a lot of places on mountain-tops within an hour of NYC (wife's career requirement at the time) that we could have afforded, and that came with a tower variance granted by the town in a county that doesn't generally allow anything over 35'. We have about 1/4 to 1/3 of an acre with lots of trees and plenty of space between our neighbours. Our quality of life here is fantastic. My radio situation is not, but I do what I can. Bouvet, Crozet, Scarborough, Heard, I got them all in my log and on different bands and modes, but most of those contacts were hard-fought slogfests, sometimes over several hours or days. In contests I regularly have loud stations CQing in my face when I call. So yeah, if you want to sit there from your optimized high ground and criticize be my guest; I can keep it up all day if you want. But humble yourself by working a major SSB contest from an inferior station someday, where 1500W still can't put certain mults in the log or get you though hundreds of big east coast blowtorches in PA and MA. There's a reason there are no massive M/M stations in NNJ or NLI.

Also remember that I work from this same desk typically 60 to 80 hours a week, and there are some weekends I'm just so wiped out that I can't stomach the thought of sitting at my work desk for another two days straight.
Again, not my problem.  I work at a desk as well, which happens to be behind my operating desk.
Simple. These days I value my down time more than I do BIC time struggling to work 1000 Hungarians, Italians and Germans for 48 hours straight, half of whom bust my call two or three times each. It's that simple. If my typical 1M to 1.5M isn't good enough for you then kick me out of the club. I'm sure YCCC will welcome my points.

There are plenty of other contesters that have smaller stations with other limitations and have spent far less do just as well, do not whine, and and do not have the excuses that you come up with.
My griping is because I would like to be able to do better, but I simply cannot, and my body won't let me sit there for more hours the way it did in 2005 when I moved in here. It's soul-sucking to work 80 and 40 for hours and be lucky to work just the big guns. A simple tribander and 1500W behind a hill may be somewhat OK to work DX but to compete seriously with you, or Bud, or Chas? in CQWW? Not a prayer.

You have said on multiple occasions - as well as in this thread - that you'll do "whatever it takes" to work a new DX country, as well as pontificating to others to do the same.  That must also include sitting at that desk for another two days after working 60-80 hours a week, because "DX IS."
And that is 100% correct. I am a DXer first, last, and always. I got into contesting to work more DX and fill in new band slots and new modes. Then I joined a great club to get tips on how to work more DX and contribute my points to help the club.  And while operating CQWW and ARRL-DX can have its moments of enjoyment, like when I can get a really good SSB run going, it's otherwise grueling and I don't enjoy it the way I once did. If there's a rare one on I won't be spending 48 (or even 30) hours in the chair trying to work him unless we're talking P5. Yes, DX IS. Contesting? Yeah, OK, maybe if I feel like it and we don't have friends and family obligations happening.

Like I said, I'll challenge anybody to come up here and sit in this chair for a few hours in CQWW or ARRL-DX, especially Friday night, and see how fun it is to have every big 1x2 and 2x1 east coast callsign beat you like a drum in every single mult pileup.

Why don't you put out an open call to have one or a few people who are antenna restricted, haven't spent $50,000 on their station, or otherwise would put in a lower score, operate your station?
You think I haven't done that in the past? I got Crickets. I'm two hours north of Philly, I doubt anybody not local is willing to shlep up here with gas and tolls what they are. Believe me, I've asked in the past. I've now stopped asking.

Simple stations with high T/O angles just can't compete effectively with the big guns. I have trouble with the low-angle DX and outside of contests; a semi-rare one that would probably take you an a few minutes or half an hour to work often takes me many hours or I don't get through until the next day, even with about 1350-1400W. Now condense that to needed mults, and do it 300 times in the roughly 30 or so hours I can play. C'mon up and try it. It'll be fun!
Simple stations cost far less than $50,000 PERIOD.  You must be running QRP, since you stated previously that 1499.5 watts is "QRP."
Re-read what I wrote. 50k over 40 years, for everything, from 2m rigs in my old cars up to my current stuff. I dare anybody to buy and pay for the professional installation of a 70 foot crank-up tower, a (used) C31XR, a shorty-40, a WARC Yagi, a Green Heron box two Yaesu rotors, along with a second small tower for my 6m LFA, new Buryflex HF feedlines and hardline for 6m, a brand-new K3s and KPA1500, various pieces of test equipment and station accessories and not spend at least 30k, soup to nuts. The goal was to work my way to the top of the Honor Roll, and I'm three back from that. The goal was not to erect a contest grade station. A single tribander and an amp, in terms of DXing, is a simple station. No stacks here, no SO2R capabilities, no SDRs or skimmers. Just one radio, one amp, and one antenna for each band.

And 750 to 900 feet of solid granite to the east of me. This is north-up; Europe is 55° and Bouvet was 141°.
(https://i.postimg.cc/0j8VFpJ2/My-terrain-HFTA.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 16, 2023, 11:03:05 AM
No, at 77 I still have a very vivid imagination, Mr. Opinionated…you seem to have an argument for everything on these forums. And it’s always your way or the highway ;). Nothing to do with my imagination.

This is 100% True.
I have tried to help WO7R by letting him know that his posts are just to long.  He actually shortened them for a time but has now gone back to writing a short Novel for each of his replies.

A the time I figured he would be less Condescending and Opinionated if the posts were shorter, but nope! 

He has to Win every argument and make sure he sounds like the smartest person in the room.  If he does not feel like he is winning he starts to make the posts longer and longer until he just wears you down with pages of BS.

I can touch type and I can do it very fast but I just don't have an interest in making long posts or winning every argument.  That IMHO is just a sign of insecurity.

N0UN for the love of God please tell me how to get Fauntleroy on my ignore list.  I have clicked on his name I have looked at my profile and I see nothing in the Menu about ignoring a person.



Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 16, 2023, 11:07:28 AM
Sounds like W2IRT and WO7R think they decide for everyone else how to think and what our values should be.

At 10,000 replies between the two of them, that should tell you all you need to know....

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 16, 2023, 11:31:21 AM
N0UN for the love of God please tell me how to get Fauntleroy on my ignore list.

Profile / Modify Profile / Buddies/Ignore List / Edit Ignore List / Add To Ignore List / Add Member

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 16, 2023, 12:46:35 PM
N0UN for the love of God please tell me how to get Fauntleroy on my ignore list.

Profile / Modify Profile / Buddies/Ignore List / Edit Ignore List / Add To Ignore List / Add Member

NØUN
Thank You Thank You Lordy Thank You

You are ignoring this user. Show me the post. ;D

Sweet !!!!

73s
Rob


(http://)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 16, 2023, 02:17:45 PM
Snowflakes are falling heavily today.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 16, 2023, 02:32:53 PM
"I was going to write you a short letter, but I didn't have time, so here's a long letter."
Attributed to Mark Twain. One of my favourite sayings.
Page 74. Please remind me, what was this discussion about?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 16, 2023, 02:33:42 PM
Snowflakes are falling heavily today.
Ham radio forums are like reading the news - they always blame the problem on someone else
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 16, 2023, 03:01:56 PM
Sounds like W2IRT and WO7R think they decide for everyone else how to think and what our values should be.
At 10,000 replies between the two of them, that should tell you all you need to know....
Perhaps we are just sick and tired of the mid Twentieth Century status quo and all the holier-than-thou preaching that only the CW purists (who naturally passed their 20 WPM Extra exam in front of an FCC examiner, the way the good Lord intended) are worthy of recognition.

I for one am bloody sick and tired of the Mode Wars (part MLVIII), the undisguised hatred for legal remote operation, and the "like-it-as-it-is-or-get-lost" attitude toward DXCC rules and award policies. These are issues that will either keep DXing going as a serious pursuit or relegate it to the same status as traffic handling, and I for one will do whatever I can to spread the word that change is both good and needed, and fight the FUD surrounding it. It's also fun living is other people's heads rent free :D
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 16, 2023, 03:23:10 PM
.

…I for one will do whatever I can to spread the word …

Interesting phrase.
I think this is the feigned moral superiority which antagonizes people.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 16, 2023, 03:46:06 PM
Sounds like W2IRT and WO7R think they decide for everyone else how to think and what our values should be.
At 10,000 replies between the two of them, that should tell you all you need to know....
Perhaps we are just sick and tired of the mid Twentieth Century status quo and all the holier-than-thou preaching that only the CW purists (who naturally passed their 20 WPM Extra exam in front of an FCC examiner, the way the good Lord intended) are worthy of recognition.

I for one am bloody sick and tired of the Mode Wars (part MLVIII), the undisguised hatred for legal remote operation, and the "like-it-as-it-is-or-get-lost" attitude toward DXCC rules and award policies. These are issues that will either keep DXing going as a serious pursuit or relegate it to the same status as traffic handling, and I for one will do whatever I can to spread the word that change is both good and needed, and fight the FUD surrounding it. It's also fun living is other people's heads rent free :D

I remember 9 years ago when I first got back into the hobby, I was building my own remote station because I didn't have space where I lived at the time.  I was on the receiving end of quite a bit of abuse for it on here, not least of all from you, actually.  It is strange now to be lectured about the benefits of a technology by someone who was so adamantly opposed back then.

It is possible to be in favor of progress, and still have a thoughtfully skeptical uncertainty about FT8.  We are all on journeys here.  I would suggest to you that these dialogs now are not productive, just as those we had back then were unproductive.  Be a positive ambassador for the new technologies you want to see flourish, and let the tech do the talking.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 16, 2023, 03:56:10 PM
Quote
I would suggest to you that these dialogs now are not productive, just as those we had back then were unproductive.

Oh, no question about that.

The problem is, you let the people in favor of what W2IRT rightly calls "the Mid 20th century status quo" talk like they are the majority, and people (especially newer people) will get the wrong idea about DX and DXing.

Moreover, these righteous sorts feel free to thread crap and throw out wild accusations of cheating whenever they feel like it.

Leave that sort of thing unrebutted, and they end up being the face of DXing.

Nope.  Not while I have the time.

One other thing I have found about the defenders of the ancient regime.  They really do think they speak for the majority.   They are surprised and hurt that anyone could possibly take them on.

And, as you're seeing on this very page, many of them retreat and hide when they are pushed hard enough.

Well, it's a hobby.  I can understand not wanting to think very hard.  But, it is also the internet.  Put out dumb things and someone just might call you on it.

I don't have any problem (and have said so repeatedly) with anyone who doesn't work FT8. 

What I oppose is people who pretend to some sort of moral superiority they don't have and insist on all these hidden, unwritten rules that, in truth, nobody has to follow.

Nobody has to do DXing the way I do.  Don't know, don't care, don't really want to know how much someone else emulates me (even by chance).  If they happen to want to say they do, that's fine.  But, as long as they follow the rules, the written rules, that's fine by me.

Screw the unwritten rules and the self-righteous thread crappers that change every subject to "I hate FT8".
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 16, 2023, 03:57:31 PM
…I for one will do whatever I can to spread the word …
Interesting phrase.
I think this is the feigned moral superiority which antagonizes people.
How do you figure? It has nothing to do with "moral superiority" but rather trying to get a relatively small corner of the hobby that's steeped in some moldy, ancient traditions to fast-forward into modern realities, and also suggesting people use every tool in the shed to "further the radio art," to coin a phrase. The only "moral superiority" I would confess to here would be to get the message out that nobody has the right to impose their particular operating constraints on others, or denigrate them when they choose their X over your Y.

The only moral superiority here is that we are better than DQRMers and KilocycleKops™.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 16, 2023, 04:06:01 PM
I remember 9 years ago when I first got back into the hobby, I was building my own remote station because I didn't have space where I lived at the time.  I was on the receiving end of quite a bit of abuse for it on here, not least of all from you, actually.  It is strange now to be lectured about the benefits of a technology by someone who was so adamantly opposed back then.
This is 100% true. I was vehemently opposed to remote operation for quite some time, especially before it was authorized by the DXCC program.

I was wrong.

I sat there and gave it a good think after the rules were amended and I couldn't find a single good reason why I was holding to that idea. It lets hams with no station of their own get on the air. The stations themselves have advanced the radio art. It's no different than driving up to Maine, putting my butt in a chair up there, and then driving back home. People drive or fly to M/M contest stations and it's welcomed. How is this different? So long as you identify with your callsign and the transmitter is in the country you're claiming to operate from it's a win-win. Plus (for some) there's a bit of a thrill top having a massive stack and a kW under their command
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 16, 2023, 04:26:41 PM

I was wrong.

I sat there and gave it a good think after the rules were amended and I couldn't find a single good reason why I was holding to that idea. It lets hams with no station of their own get on the air. The stations themselves have advanced the radio art. It's no different than driving up to Maine, putting my butt in a chair up there, and then driving back home. People drive or fly to M/M contest stations and it's welcomed. How is this different? So long as you identify with your callsign and the transmitter is in the country you're claiming to operate from it's a win-win. Plus (for some) there's a bit of a thrill top having a massive stack and a kW under their command

You are not opposed to it now because it suits your needs now.
A whole bunch of people on here have opposed it in the past but now that many of them have gone to live in HOA's, suddenly fine!
In your case you got cash to burn so shifting your location around and using superstations to work the Dx is to your benefit.
The hypocrisy is everywhere in this hobby.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 16, 2023, 04:45:20 PM
Quote
The hypocrisy is everywhere in this hobby

It is not hypocrisy to change one's position when your needs change.  Or, when the rules change for that matter.

Hypocrisy is when you say one thing and do another.  It is not hypocrisy when you've changed your mind and say so.

Most people have a simple name for this sort of thing:  It's called "living life".
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 16, 2023, 04:49:43 PM
…I for one will do whatever I can to spread the word …
Interesting phrase.
I think this is the feigned moral superiority which antagonizes people.
How do you figure? It has nothing to do with "moral superiority" but rather trying to get a relatively small corner of the hobby that's steeped in some moldy, ancient traditions to fast-forward into modern realities, and also suggesting people use every tool in the shed to "further the radio art," to coin a phrase. The only "moral superiority" I would confess to here would be to get the message out that nobody has the right to impose their particular operating constraints on others, or denigrate them when they choose their X over your Y.

The only moral superiority here is that we are better than DQRMers and KilocycleKops™.
Let’s review - you are the only one (actually there are two of you who share this distinction) who is trying to subvert and twist what others are saying here such as your claim anyone is “imposing” operating modes. No one is or has tried to do that!

And it appears you either don’t know it or do it purposely to antagonize.

Another interesting phrase you just used - “get the message out…” as though anyone here needs to be educated, just like I described in my  previous comments about feigned superiority.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 16, 2023, 04:50:10 PM
Oh cool - its a cat fight.  Where's my popcorn.  Now that Bouvet is history its the only show on TV...

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 16, 2023, 05:13:08 PM
You are not opposed to it now because it suits your needs now. A whole bunch of people on here have opposed it in the past but now that many of them have gone to live in HOA's, suddenly fine!
Opposing it made sense when it wasn't yet approved for award credit. In that case it did give people an unfair advantage according to the rules. But a lot of it was also knee-jerk, and I'll freely admit that was how I felt at the time. But once they OK'd remoting I just asked myself what was really different than driving over to a buddy's place or up to a mountain top or whatnot, and ultimately concluded it wasn't. And it gives antenna-restricted hams access to the bands, etc. The question to ask is "will more people benefit by this new thing or be harmed by it?" In this case a few butt-hurt olde-time paper chasers vs a generation of old and new hams who have access to something they'd never dreamed possible.

Of course, affording to use it was a different thing, and very few could scrounge up $1000 a year for access to the big stations. I sure couldn't, so I stayed off it until two months ago, when the subscription prices dropped. And I wasn't alone!

One sentiment I heard a lot back then was "how dare someone make a profit off amateur radio?" And that's when the absurdity of it all really hit home. Every new technology, in any field of endeavour follows the same path. The purists decry it, stomp their feet and hold their breath, but eventually realize that the world isn't imploding, and the new thing is just fine—and they find another new something to rail against.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 16, 2023, 05:13:51 PM
This is 100% true. I was vehemently opposed to remote operation for quite some time, especially before it was authorized by the DXCC program.

I was wrong.

I sat there and gave it a good think after the rules were amended and I couldn't find a single good reason why I was holding to that idea.

You admitted on this forum that you made one QSO for WAZ via remote. I printed the rules on page 69, top message, of this topic. The rules clearly show the categories of traditional and remote WAZ awards. If you made even one contact using remote, then you fall into that category. So unless you applied for a remote WAZ award, you aren't following the rules.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 16, 2023, 05:21:34 PM
You are not opposed to it now because it suits your needs now.

Yup... You put one on ignore today because of his drivel. I've had him on ignore for a while. Just added his compadre to that list for the same reason.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 16, 2023, 05:29:56 PM
Oh cool - its a cat fight.  Where's my popcorn.  Now that Bouvet is history its the only show on TV...

(https://i.postimg.cc/yYB8wspr/catfight.gif)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 16, 2023, 07:00:20 PM
You admitted on this forum that you made one QSO for WAZ via remote. I printed the rules on page 69, top message, of this topic. The rules clearly show the categories of traditional and remote WAZ awards. If you made even one contact using remote, then you fall into that category. So unless you applied for a remote WAZ award, you aren't following the rules.
You are correct (although I did not see your original message). I have contacted Jose and requested the change to the Remote category. I honestly haven't checked on the 5B rules since I applied for the initial award in 2007. I had no idea things changed in 2015. I'll still finish it the traditional way someday.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 16, 2023, 07:44:16 PM
I can admire W2IRT honesty on the subject and honestly the whole remote thing and FT8 counting towards DXCC has kind of sucked the life out of the Hobby for me.
People will do whatever they want to do and justify it because it is something that suits their needs.
Easy is the new norm in every aspect of American society, so why would Ham radio be any different.

For me it was thrilling going from a piss poor G5RV and TS-440 and having to learn and hone every skill set trying to work Dx while slowly working my way up to owning a good station.
I really enjoyed the results of my hard work and the money I put into upgrading my station and being able to add more and more distant entities to my list.

I know if I had been introduced to Ham Radio via an FT8 demonstration I would have laughed my ass off and dismissed getting into this Hobby without hesitation.  If at the time I was told I could purchase a remote head and paid by the minute to use someone else's station I would have also laughed and walked away.

Anyway some of you guys think this is a good way for getting new Hams into the hobby.  My feeling is that some people might join, but most of them will get bored rather quickly and leave.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 16, 2023, 07:53:41 PM
Quote
Anyway some of you guys think this is a good way for getting new Hams into the hobby.  My feeling is that some people might join, but most of them will get bored rather quickly and leave.

You actually think people haven't always "gotten bored and left" since the days of Maxim?

People adopt hobbies and drop hobbies all the time.

The videogame generation should find FT8 very suitable, actually.  Certainly, if we review the numbers, there's no sign of actual boredom.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 16, 2023, 07:55:20 PM
Anyway some of you guys think this is a good way for getting new Hams into the hobby.  My feeling is that some people might join, but most of them will get bored rather quickly and leave.

I hope this is not perceived as an attack on FT8, because it isn't.  Just a story.

I have a friend of mine who got licensed a decade ago but never really got into HF.  Another friend and I recently convinced him to give it a try again and he's been busy with FT8, the obvious re-entry point.  He's only been on the air a couple of weeks and he's up to 60 or 70 entities now.  I asked him what he thought of FT8 today and he told me "it's kinda lame."  His words, not mine.  I think he's enjoying it but mildly.  Late 30s newly active ham.  He intimated to me earlier that he might have some interest in CW.  Who knows, we're trying to encourage him to use whatever mode(s) he likes and hope something will stick.

By all means, use FT8 as an introduction to HF, and it your elmerees like it, great!  I'm waiting to see if my elmeree sticks with it or branches out in another direction.  I actually think FT8 might appeal more to the seasoned ham than the casual passer-by.  But that's just an impression.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 16, 2023, 10:18:56 PM

I hope this is not perceived as an attack on FT8, because it isn't.  Just a story.

I have a friend of mine who got licensed a decade ago but never really got into HF.  Another friend and I recently convinced him to give it a try again and he's been busy with FT8, the obvious re-entry point.  He's only been on the air a couple of weeks and he's up to 60 or 70 entities now.  I asked him what he thought of FT8 today and he told me "it's kinda lame."  His words, not mine.  I think he's enjoying it but mildly.  Late 30s newly active ham.  He intimated to me earlier that he might have some interest in CW.  Who knows, we're trying to encourage him to use whatever mode(s) he likes and hope something will stick.

By all means, use FT8 as an introduction to HF, and it your elmerees like it, great!  I'm waiting to see if my elmeree sticks with it or branches out in another direction.  I actually think FT8 might appeal more to the seasoned ham than the casual passer-by.  But that's just an impression.

Boredom is a natural human response to anything that is to easy and yet people want everything to be easy!  I highly doubt that he is going to want to wait a week or weeks to add a new one using SSB when FT8 can do it for him in a day.

I think it took me a year or more to get to 100 and I really was only interested in SSB so it was not easy.  I was busily keeping count everyday of every contact and hunting down any ATNO that I could hear for hours on end. No cluster info, just turning the knob and then getting all excited when I would hear a new Prefix. Sometimes a quick lookup would prove it to be an entity I already worked and sometimes it was sheer heart racing joy knowing it was a possible ATNO. 

Going from 100W to 400W with a Swan Amp was my first big leap.
It made getting through to some unreachable countries possible.  Each upgrade gave me a bit more enjoyment and that enjoyment was what fueled me to keep going year in and year out.


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 17, 2023, 04:20:11 AM
As I have state previously.  The DXing thing died for me with FT8 sucking the blood out of 160 and 80.  I only need P5 now Mixed and a couple on CW and SSB so bands are where its it.  Ft8 could not be more boring.  And unsatisfying personally, to me anyway.  And if you think gamers will last long without sound, graphics, and action, you are kidding yourselves.

Its surprising that so few DXers don't look more at Contesting.  Its truly where the fun is on HF in my opinion.  I will be in ARRL DX Low Power this weekend.  Probably do 3000+ Qs.  I start from zero at 00Z tonight so even a G or EA on 160 or JA on 10 is a thrill.  No boredom here.

Oh and there is virtually zero DQRM the whole weekend.  They can't keep up with 1000 people CQing all at the same time.  SO they go to 75M phone and bitch about it all weekend.

And there are quite a bit of young people hooked on it.  And guess which mode they almost universally like best?  CW!!!

Try it, you might like it.  DXing is seriously yesterday for a lot of people.  Whatever the mode is...

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1VT on February 17, 2023, 05:51:53 AM
I used to do a lot of contesting.  I've done clean sweep in the CW sweepstakes and won 1st place QRP Portable in the June VHF contest--five times in a row!

http://www.arrl.org/arrl-dx
Rules for the CW DX contest this weekend.  The Phone contest is in a few weeks.

The big issue for most is the time required to win.  For ARRL Sweepstakes it is 24 out of 30 hours.  I've been told that I won the NE Division QRP category in the last few hours against a much bigger station that quit early!  He would have won had he stuck it out to the very end.
For DX contests it is even worse.  How much time can you put in if you are allowed 48  hours of operating time?

I still compete.  I exhibit roses in rose shows.  My neighbors love my yard!
Over the years I've gotten rid of tree shading so I now have a superb yard for growing roses!
I grow show quality roses in the fall when many of my fellow rosarians are losing light that is blocked by tall trees.
My yard has wet clay soil, which means that if I grow roses with deep root systems, they don't need to be watered!

Zak W1VT
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 17, 2023, 06:09:37 AM
KD8MJR: "Boredom is a natural human response to anything that is to easy and yet people want everything to be easy!"


That's the paradox and you're 100% right.

"Mt Everest is too hard to climb.  It's makes climbing it way too exclusionary.  In order to solve this, we must make it much shorter, and install a stairway".

Removing the challenge removes the reward.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7JQ on February 17, 2023, 06:35:02 AM
As I have state previously.  The DXing thing died for me with FT8 sucking the blood out of 160 and 80.  I only need P5 now Mixed and a couple on CW and SSB so bands are where its it.  Ft8 could not be more boring.  And unsatisfying personally, to me anyway.  And if you think gamers will last long without sound, graphics, and action, you are kidding yourselves.

Its surprising that so few DXers don't look more at Contesting.  Its truly where the fun is on HF in my opinion.  I will be in ARRL DX Low Power this weekend.  Probably do 3000+ Qs.  I start from zero at 00Z tonight so even a G or EA on 160 or JA on 10 is a thrill.  No boredom here.

Oh and there is virtually zero DQRM the whole weekend.  They can't keep up with 1000 people CQing all at the same time.  SO they go to 75M phone and bitch about it all weekend.

And there are quite a bit of young people hooked on it.  And guess which mode they almost universally like best?  CW!!!

Try it, you might like it.  DXing is seriously yesterday for a lot of people.  Whatever the mode is...

Ed  N1UR

I agree 100%. After you make honor role, or get up to 300 entities close, how many JA’s, G’s, or EA’s can you work on a daily basis and not get bored? You’re basically waiting for DXpeditions to pop up for the entities you still need.

When I joined a local contest club 13 years ago, my zest for ham radio (now into it for 64 years) really peaked with the anticipation of contest participation on various weekends. Even with my HOA antenna restricted station, I can easily work DXCC+ in a single weekend DX contest. I don’t have the station capability to be “in it to win it”, but just competing to beat my last year’s score, contribute points to the overall club score, and see how I compare with other club members that have have a lot more aluminum in the air than I do keeps my interest going. My overwhelming favorite contest mode is CW.

Contesting has also made me try new operating skills like SO2R, requiring a lot of practice to perfect…getting better with each contest. When possible, running (CQing) stations gives me a rush to increase my rates. I also abandoned the shooting-fish-in-a-barrel, point-and-click “assisted” mode using spotting clusters during search and pounce. To me, there’s no challenge in that, and the reason I have no use for the similar FT8 mode…boring. I enjoy tuning around and actually *hearing* them to work them ;).

Now at 77, I can’t keep my butt in the chair like I used to, but still enjoy getting into the contest bedlam when the bell rings. As Ed N1UR said, try it…you might like it!

Bob K7JQ
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 17, 2023, 07:17:16 AM
Nice stories, guys.

But, when will these anecdotes start showing up in the Clublog mode data?

When will the 20m FT8 window thin out when all those bored people leave?

Truth is, as often as not, FT8 is kind of addictive.  It's a lot like eating popcorn.  You say you're going to eat just that one handful and the next thing you know, the bowl is empty.

See, I can spin yarns, too.

Show me some data, not pleasant stories that reinforce someone's bias.

The numbers are brutal.  FT8 is winning.  FT8 is creating a new class of DX availability that we never had before.  You want DX outside of contests?  FT8 gives you that like we never had before.

That one is not a nice story, either.  It's in the actual available data.  Have a look.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1JX on February 17, 2023, 07:24:15 AM
Try it, you might like it.  DXing is seriously yesterday for a lot of people.  Whatever the mode is...

Ed  N1UR

Been there, did that.  Had some modest success.  Moved on, for a bunch of reasons.

I have a number of friends who stayed with contesting, in some way.  Others also "retired" along the way.  I was just ahead of the curve on that one.   :)  I'm happy for all of them.

~~~~

I find these conversations fascinating, even if they are off the original thread topic.  It really helps me understand the psyche of a lot of my fellow hams.

A half dozen or so years ago I decided to get back into ham radio.  What to do?  After much consideration, I figured out the two activities within the operating part of the hobby that were my all-time favorites, so why not start there?  It turns out that there's a fair amount of overlap in the station requirements, so that worked out.

As it happens, I discovered that one of those two activities is essentially moribund, so I dropped that one quickly.  The other one is still a big thing - DX'ing - although not in the way I remembered it from way back when.  Stuff changes.

The other thing I realized immediately was that chasing the Honor Roll wasn't for me.  Just how do you get there, except by decades of patience?  The largest station on the planet can't help you work countries that aren't on the air and may not be back on for a lifetime.

So, my approach was to choose to use a very modest station and see just how far I could get over time.  This way, I am happy with what I have worked, rather than unhappy over what I haven't worked.  That may sound like a rationalization, but it's actually something I learned from my contesting days.  I'm not advocating this approach or idea for anybody else, but it's been fun for me.  Not that anybody cares - nor should they.

Mostly, I read here about unhappy hams.  This is a hobby??
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 17, 2023, 07:37:00 AM
Quote

The videogame generation should find FT8 very suitable, actually.  Certainly, if we review the numbers, there's no sign of actual boredom.
This is precisely the type of generalization based on some uninformed supposition which makes these debates so silly.

Without exception, every kid I’ve introduced ham radio to in the last ten years was somewhat interested in both phone and CW modes and a few actually learned Morse code.

When it came to demonstrating RTTY or the FT modes to them, they all had the same reaction - boredom. Some even commented it a useless means of doing what they can do all day with a cellphone or laptop.

We need to be objective about the “baby monitor modes” and recognize these  modes for what they actually are.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 17, 2023, 07:52:47 AM
Truth is, as often as not, FT8 is kind of addictive.  It's a lot like eating popcorn.  You say you're going to eat just that one handful and the next thing you know, the bowl is empty.
...
The numbers are brutal.  FT8 is winning.

I'm not disputing your numbers, because I have no reason to doubt them.  My own log tells the story: before FT8 came around, fully half my QSOs "counted" towards DXCC challenge.  Now?  I dunno, I'd be surprised if it were 10%.  My satisfaction levels have not gone up though; they have gone down.

To extend your popcorn analogy, yes, it's easy to eat the whole bowl and end up hating yourself for it.  Lots of empty calories.  FT8 is extremely effective at putting Qs in the log.  If that is your only consideration, it's a clear winner.  But for some of us (not all), it leaves us feeling pretty unsatisfied.

Someone told me that the San Diego DX club split in two over FT8.  I am not sure if that's true, but I consider that a really unfortunate outcome.  Has anyone else heard this?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W6OU on February 17, 2023, 08:28:53 AM
This discussion about remote stations, dxcc changes, and FT8 belongs in other threads.  This thread is about 3Y0J Bouvet.  Which leads me to ask:  Who are the Bouvet piggies?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K6BRN on February 17, 2023, 08:33:02 AM
There will always be those who just can't adapt and remain mired in yesterday.  That's pretty much their problem and takes care of itself as time moves on and the population turns over.

The simple fact is that FT8 and newer digital modes are relevant and attractive to new and experienced hams alike.  School STEM programs now focus on software design, microprocessor driven remote controlled robots with digital comms for T&C, and in college, digital signal processing.

This extends to ham radio in SDRs, which has taken our world by storm even more so than FT8 and its predecessors (and successors).

Even most hardcore CW enthusiasts are sending "automated" code via (digital) keyboard, and if not that, use an electronic keyer.  The days in which we could identify an operator by his/her "fist' is 99% gone.  Times change.  Life moves on.

That does NOT mean CW is "dead", anymore than RTTY is.  RTTY is one of the oldest and most obsolete of the digital modes, yet still active today.  But it's no longer a PRIMARY mode.  Yet hams still enjoy it.  We can see the same thing happening with CW today.

The arguments regarding CW operators being a "higher grade" of ham speaks to the very human tendency to establish a social "pecking order" based on some level of possessions or skill, relevant or not.  Being at or near the top of that existing order when it's basis evaporates, especially when a senior person has spent their life climbing that particular ladder, is just not fair.  But then, life is rarely fair, and it evolves to survive - or simply dies.  So it is with ham radio.

JT65, JT9, FT8 - ALL of these new modes injected a surge of activity into the hobby during a severe solar/propagation down cycle that (arguably) came close to ending HF interest. They were new, interesting, relevant and helped lower the barrier for new operators.  And that barrier, learning CW skills, required spending a great deal of time developing a skill that is more than a century old and just no longer relevant in the greater world, where digital modes and technologies ARE.

So - no need  to throw rocks at digital modes.  They're here to stay and themselves will evolve.  FT8 is the mode of today - tomorrow?  Well, remember JT-65?  Let's hope that evolution and improvement continues - because it makes amateur radio relevent and synergistic with modern technology.  We were trapped in a very slow evolution phase for a long time, with HF becoming irrelevant.  Not any more.

No need to throw rocks at CW, either.  It's there, has been there for more than a century and will continue to be enjoyed for the forseeable future.  And that's what a hobby is all about - enjoyment.

Brian - K6BRN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 17, 2023, 09:50:14 AM
There will always be those who just can't adapt and remain mired in yesterday.  That's pretty much their problem and takes care of itself as time moves on and the population turns over.
--- SNIP ---

Brian - K6BRN

Your logic is flawed!
We are in the horse and Buggy business in a world that has move onto Gas and Electric Cars.  Our prime time passed and trying to put Lipstick on the Ham to make it compete with the Internet and Phone service is ridiculous.

My youngest son plays driving Games with kids in Sweden, Scotland and just about all over the world.  They chat, laugh and curse each other during the Game and after the game they meet up in the game lounges and talk about what happened during the game.

Do you honestly think that 59 RR73 is going to interest him?
I can answer that for you.  It's a 100% No! 
It was like how my Father looked at my Grandfather when he use to insist on sending messages to his sisters abroad using Telegraph and my Father would keep telling him we had a phone.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7JQ on February 17, 2023, 10:02:26 AM

There will always be those who just can't adapt and remain mired in yesterday.  That's pretty much their problem and takes care of itself as time moves on and the population turns over.

The simple fact is that FT8 and newer digital modes are relevant and attractive to new and experienced hams alike.

Even most hardcore CW enthusiasts are sending "automated" code via (digital) keyboard, and if not that, use an electronic keyer.  The days in which we could identify an operator by his/her "fist' is 99% gone.  Times change.  Life moves on.

The arguments regarding CW operators being a "higher grade" of ham

And that barrier, learning CW skills, required spending a great deal of time developing a skill that is more than a century old and just no longer relevant in the greater world, where digital modes and technologies ARE.

So - no need  to throw rocks at digital modes.

And that's what a hobby is all about - enjoyment.

Brian - K6BRN

I think you're missing some observations here, Brian. For me (I can't speak for others), it's not a case that I "can't adapt" to FT8, and "mired in yesterday". That's an unfair assumption. No more than I can't adapt to banging my head against the wall ;). The fact is, I tried FT8, over and over again. Each time, I lasted about 15 minutes before being totally bored and flipped the big switch. Plain fact...I just don't enjoy it. What I do enjoy is communicating using my ears to actually *hear* the person I'm *talking* to, whether I'm decoding CW or vocally on SSB. But there is someone on here that says FT8 is "winning", and the "data" shows that it's now the most popular mode. So what?  Does that mean that I should "adapt", scratch my fingernails on the blackboard, or jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it? I don't consider it a "problem" that I won't join in.

Frankly, I don't care how "relevant and attractive" FT8 is. It is not to me.

Yes, I use a keyboard in CW contests and an electronic keyer to send manually, for speed and clarity. But I'm still manually decoding what the other station is sending. Those *conveniences* have nothing to do with a comparison to FT8.

I don't regard the fact that I know Morse code and operate CW as being any "higher grade" of ham radio. I regard all those from Technician class on up to be a ham radio operator that enjoys whatever the hobby presents to them.

To me, as long as CW is a ham radio mode, I'll practice it whether it's deemed "relevant" or not. Because I enjoy it, and don't enjoy digital modes that don't require speakers or headphones...just staring at a computer screen and point-and-click. If I'm considered a dinosaur, so be it.

I'm not throwing rocks at (FT8) digital modes...operate whatever mode you like. I don't care, and don't think less of those that operate them. What I don't understand are those that say one should use it because it's the latest technology, and claim that it's a "problem" that I "can't adapt".

After all, isn't that what a hobby is all about - enjoyment ;)?

73,  Bob K7JQ
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 17, 2023, 10:06:13 AM
There will always be those who just can't adapt and remain mired in yesterday.  That's pretty much their problem and takes care of itself as time moves on and the population turns over.
--- SNIP ---

Brian - K6BRN

Your logic is flawed!
We are in the horse and Buggy business in a world that has move onto Gas and Electric Cars.  Our prime time passed and trying to put Lipstick on the Ham to make it compete with the Internet and Phone service is ridiculous.

My youngest son plays driving Games with kids in Sweden, Scotland and just about all over the world.  They chat, laugh and curse each other during the Game and after the game they meet up in the game lounges and talk about what happened during the game.

Do you honestly think that 59 RR73 is going to interest him?
I can answer that for you.  It's a 100% No! 
It was like how my Father looked at my Grandfather when he use to insist on sending messages to his sisters abroad using Telegraph and my Father would keep telling him we had a phone.
Every time I read phrases like “digital modes are attractive to new hams”, it’s clear anything written thereafter is just another frivolous rationalization.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 17, 2023, 10:17:24 AM
The topic last night at the NCDXC meeting was, "Ham Radio is Dying... Or Is It?"  Presented by the ARRL Pacific Division director.

I was not there but someone who was told me that ARRL did some surveys and found that the number of QSOs was up and satisfaction was down across the board.  My friend's interpretation was that "everyone thinks the future is bleak."  I would love to see those surveys for myself if anyone has them.  I tried to find them on the ARRL website and failed.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 17, 2023, 10:22:54 AM
The topic last night at the NCDXC meeting was, "Ham Radio is Dying... Or Is It?"  Presented by the ARRL Pacific Division director.

I was not there but someone who was told me that ARRL did some surveys and found that the number of QSOs was up and satisfaction was down across the board.  My friend's interpretation was that "everyone thinks the future is bleak."  I would love to see those surveys for myself if anyone has them.  I tried to find them on the ARRL website and failed.

Great work ARRL!

There was an article in a 1929 issue of QST (and multiple occasions thereafter) saying the same thing that ham radio is dying.

Wonder if anyone in Newington  is smart enough to read license trends  or read a book (magazine).

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 17, 2023, 10:27:47 AM
There was an article in a 1929 issue of QST (and multiple occasions thereafter) saying the same thing that ham radio is dying.

I didn't get the impression from my friend's report that the speaker (or ARRL) were saying that ham radio is dying, only that the audience seemed to be somewhat pessimistic about the future.  I think the title of the presentation was just intended to attract attention.  But I really am mostly interested in what the surveys found.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 17, 2023, 10:33:30 AM
14 MPH, just a cruising along.  After what they've been through, it probably feels pretty good to start warming up, with some real urgency to get to land, and grab a good sit down meal with a beer (or 10).

NØUN

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-17-112730.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 17, 2023, 10:40:07 AM
This discussion about remote stations, dxcc changes, and FT8 belongs in other threads.  This thread is about 3Y0J Bouvet.  Which leads me to ask:  Who are the Bouvet piggies?

We have one ehammer with 7 Q's I've seen.  Got to give him credit he never took his foot of the gas (obviously).

NØUN

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/clublog-pig.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 17, 2023, 10:59:58 AM
This discussion about remote stations, dxcc changes, and FT8 belongs in other threads.  This thread is about 3Y0J Bouvet.  Which leads me to ask:  Who are the Bouvet piggies?

We have one ehammer with 7 Q's I've seen.  Got to give him credit he never took his foot of the gas (obviously).

NØUN


Credit for what?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K6BRN on February 17, 2023, 11:37:57 AM
Hi Bob (K7JQ):

You clipped off the relevant part of my response and made the entire quote misleading.  Here's the missing part (Surprise!  I agree with you: Each to their own)

Quote
No need to throw rocks at CW, either.  It's there, has been there for more than a century and will continue to be enjoyed for the forseeable future.  And that's what a hobby is all about - enjoyment.

Glad you enjoy CW, and more power to you.  And thank you for NOT throwing rocks at the newer modes!

Brian - K6BRN

I think you're missing some observations here, Brian. For me (I can't speak for others), it's not a case that I "can't adapt" to FT8, and "mired in yesterday". That's an unfair assumption. No more than I can't adapt to banging my head against the wall ;). The fact is, I tried FT8, over and over again. Each time, I lasted about 15 minutes before being totally bored and flipped the big switch. Plain fact...I just don't enjoy it. What I do enjoy is communicating using my ears to actually *hear* the person I'm *talking* to, whether I'm decoding CW or vocally on SSB. But there is someone on here that says FT8 is "winning", and the "data" shows that it's now the most popular mode. So what?  Does that mean that I should "adapt", scratch my fingernails on the blackboard, or jump off a bridge because everyone else is doing it? I don't consider it a "problem" that I won't join in.

Frankly, I don't care how "relevant and attractive" FT8 is. It is not to me.

Yes, I use a keyboard in CW contests and an electronic keyer to send manually, for speed and clarity. But I'm still manually decoding what the other station is sending. Those *conveniences* have nothing to do with a comparison to FT8.

I don't regard the fact that I know Morse code and operate CW as being any "higher grade" of ham radio. I regard all those from Technician class on up to be a ham radio operator that enjoys whatever the hobby presents to them.

To me, as long as CW is a ham radio mode, I'll practice it whether it's deemed "relevant" or not. Because I enjoy it, and don't enjoy digital modes that don't require speakers or headphones...just staring at a computer screen and point-and-click. If I'm considered a dinosaur, so be it.

I'm not throwing rocks at (FT8) digital modes...operate whatever mode you like. I don't care, and don't think less of those that operate them. What I don't understand are those that say one should use it because it's the latest technology, and claim that it's a "problem" that I "can't adapt".

After all, isn't that what a hobby is all about - enjoyment ;)?

73,  Bob K7JQ
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 17, 2023, 11:38:23 AM
Frankly, I don't care how "relevant and attractive" FT8 is. It is not to me.
This is exactly the point I've been conveying myself these past few posts. Everybody has their own standards of achievements and that's great. Keep it at that, and operate whichever modes you like. So long as you operate courteously, legally, and if you chase paper, keep to the rules that's absolutely perfect.

I don't regard the fact that I know Morse code and operate CW as being any "higher grade" of ham radio.
That's the problem, though. There are a great many who do precisely that. It's great to say "I'm not a fan of FT8," or whatever the thing is being questioned. But to call someone else's choices into question, to infer they're cheating because they use a certain mode or technology, or that they are just button-pushers with canned text messages is horseplucky, and I'll call 'em on it every time.

Olde Timers did it the way they did because those were the technologies available to them at the time. I doubt that if guys like Danny Weil or Gus Browning could have activated those rare ones back in the day with a simple weak signal mode like FT8 that they'd have insisted on CW. As someone who's sitting at 333 on the CW Honor Roll I get that CW is more difficult, but considering that for most of the difficult/rare entities, a 5NN TU is not really any different than an RR73 message. In both cases, finding a spot where the DX is monitoring and having the luck of him replying is the hardest part.

So with Bouvet, Crozet and countless other operations, the comments on the cluster, social media, and forums like this about how crappy operators they are or how they're lazy, etc, is just infuriating to me. 90% of these guys couldn't have endured the boat ride, let alone operating in a freezing cold tent with no chairs or tables. They're most likely whining because they are high-total CW and SSB guys, and if they work that entity on digital it won't advance their mode totals or qualify them for mode Honor Roll. I'd bet on that, in fact.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K6BRN on February 17, 2023, 11:58:28 AM

Your logic is flawed!
We are in the horse and Buggy business in a world that has move onto Gas and Electric Cars.  Our prime time passed and trying to put Lipstick on the Ham to make it compete with the Internet and Phone service is ridiculous.

My youngest son plays driving Games with kids in Sweden, Scotland and just about all over the world.  They chat, laugh and curse each other during the Game and after the game they meet up in the game lounges and talk about what happened during the game.

Do you honestly think that 59 RR73 is going to interest him?
I can answer that for you.  It's a 100% No! 
It was like how my Father looked at my Grandfather when he use to insist on sending messages to his sisters abroad using Telegraph and my Father would keep telling him we had a phone.

Hi Robert (KD8MJR):

Ham radio on HF can be a hard sell to youth, at least at first.  I presume your youngest son is not into STEM, though. Just about every local school out here is using radio for T&C on their robotics and remote monitoring STEM projects, and that's been the segway into ham radio/APRS/VHF/UHF for many.  Heck, my cardiologist TEACHES remote operation and telemetry classes (including APRS) at high school level STEM classes, with many students taking the tech exams and some moving on to General and beyond.  And he's older than me.

FEC/EDAC and weak signal capability makes that practical on HF as well with new modes and relatively simple antennas paving the way.  What do you think WHISPER is a simple example of?  Lots more potential, there.

I suppose it helps that I live in the land of engineers and aerospace.  Our kids see their parents doing this every day.  And they like the lifestyle it provides.  Some pretty good incentives.  And lots of creativity.

And you can't deny that FT8 and the newer digital modes are extremely attractive to many existing hams, too.  Just turn on your radio and tune in.

Brian - K6BRN

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 17, 2023, 12:12:37 PM
I was curious about the piggies question too.  90 callsigns and two others (sorry, EA0021SWL and FUFFNER) have posted on this thread.  So this is a pretty hardcore but ultimately small audience.

I used automation to find out the details.  I only counted slots worked, not QSOs, so this data doesn't capture dupes on the same band/mode.

Here's the breakdown:
39 calls: 0 slots
22 calls: 1 slot
17 calls: 2 slots
10 calls: 3 slots
2 calls: 5 slots (wow!)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 17, 2023, 12:30:31 PM
I was curious about the piggies question too.  90 callsigns and two others (sorry, EA0021SWL and FUFFNER) have posted on this thread.  So this is a pretty hardcore but ultimately small audience.
I did my part, but one for a new band was with a pirate, and the other didn't get in the log, but would have been an insurance dupe anyway. Technically the insurance dupe was the good one, the original one didn't get through.

(https://i.postimg.cc/R0Xv7x3Z/DX-Greenie-Piggie.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 17, 2023, 01:24:28 PM
This photo was just posted to an Elecraft Facebook group. Imagine having this as your shack (an actual shack would be a luxurious upgrade), and then being slammed by thousands of keyboard louts for not doing things their way.


(https://i.postimg.cc/8kW5nHCd/bouvet-shack.jpg)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: IW0HQE on February 17, 2023, 02:35:34 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/R0Xv7x3Z/DX-Greenie-Piggie.png)

I think I qualify as a piggy this time ...  :-[

 :)

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 18, 2023, 10:11:17 AM
I have a copy of an email sent to a well known DXpeditioner:

"sir, My legal callsign is nonimport in this point. Me as one of the pirate worked over 8700 qso's as 3y0j is this good score..."

His drivel goes on, but in the end he signed it "John A."

The IP taken from the X-Originating-IP in the unseen header was from Italy.

Still researching to see if we can tie that specific IP to any known Ham.

Suppose we can. What would your plan of action be?

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1NK on February 18, 2023, 11:25:25 AM

Still researching to see if we can tie that specific IP to any known Ham.

Suppose we can. What would your plan of action be?


Collect $5 / €5 for each pirated Q, make a "donation" to a local, um, "contractor" in John's "regione"/town, for said "contractor" to remodel John's shack and antennas?

Who's he going to complain to the authorities?    ;)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: NU1O on February 18, 2023, 12:29:20 PM

Still researching to see if we can tie that specific IP to any known Ham.

Suppose we can. What would your plan of action be?


Collect $5 / €5 for each pirated Q, make a "donation" to a local, um, "contractor" in John's "regione"/town, for said "contractor" to remodel John's shack and antennas?

Who's he going to complain to the authorities?    ;)

Can't IP addresses be faked?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 18, 2023, 01:07:58 PM
Can't IP addresses be faked?

Sure they can, easily.  User Agent too.  Everything can be spoofed.  I'm leaving quite a bit out of this story - for now.  We're well past the fake part (other than him being a fake 3Y0J).

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on February 18, 2023, 02:09:04 PM
3Y0J by WD5COV

https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-by-wd5cov/

Those first days on the island, no place for sissies.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KA4WJA on February 18, 2023, 03:36:31 PM
Paul,
Thanks for posting this link here.
Wow!   Just wow!
3Y0J by WD5COV
https://www.dx-world.net/3y0j-by-wd5cov/

Those first days on the island, no place for sissies.

And, fyi, for those that haven't seen their videos showing them in their gumby suits / getting their gear ashore, have a look here:

https://www.facebook.com/kenneth.opskar/videos/5923076334407408/?idorvanity=3093983840726129

https://www.facebook.com/kenneth.opskar/videos/1359141504910585/?idorvanity=3093983840726129&t=81

Don't worry, you don't need a facebook account to view these....(I don't and have never been on facebook)

As to why they choose soft-bottomed inflatables, rather than buying and shipping RIB's, and use them to land up on the beach?  Well, that's a whole 'nother discussion...for another time...    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQQHS1MHYdc



And fyi, Mike, KJ4Z...I'm one of those callsigns here on eham that won't show up in a DX'ers / DX-pedition's log....'cuz I'm not a DX'er.  :) 

I'm here to learn about the "expedition" aspects, etc., and learn about their prep/planning,  as well as their antenna choices/locations (planned versus what they ended-up using), and the propagation, bands, modes, and paths (long-path and short-path), etc...
(and I offered some context regarding trying to "land" on a beach and/or rocky shore)...
So, not everyone was trying to work 'em... (heck, all I have here in my temporary location is an 80m dipole strung across the roof, so unless they had activated 80m, I wouldn't have a chance anyway.  hi hi)


Thanks again Paul!

73 and Fair Winds to all....Especially those hearty souls of the 3Y0J crew!  (Those guys are seriously awesome DX'ers!)

John,  KA4WJA
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 18, 2023, 04:38:40 PM

Still researching to see if we can tie that specific IP to any known Ham.

Suppose we can. What would your plan of action be?

Ok, I'll say it. Raise funds as per W1NK's cunning plan, and remodel "John", and ensure it never pirates again?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3HJ on February 18, 2023, 04:46:33 PM
I used automation to find out the details.  I only counted slots worked, not QSOs, so this data doesn't capture dupes on the same band/mode.
That's interesting!
I won't boast about the QSO I made with 3Y0J, but a few have been on their FB page. One EA station showed how he made 7 valid slots (IIRC). He attracted a few congratulatory comments, but most were scathing!
Then there was the comment from the Team Leader who denied putting out the request for everyone who had worked 3Y0J once to refrain from working them on other bands/modes. We discussed that at some length here.
It's good to see the Marama getting to more comfortable waters. Wishing them smooth sailing to Cape Town.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 18, 2023, 09:52:09 PM
Then there was the comment from the Team Leader who denied putting out the request for everyone who had worked 3Y0J once to refrain from working them on other bands/modes. We discussed that at some length here.

Huh!!
They made posts about him requesting that several times on FB.
I guess a lot of Politicking is going on right now. Some people need cover so the story is changing.
Anyway the horse it out of the Barn so nothing matters at this point.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 19, 2023, 02:27:38 AM
May or may not be related to Bouvet, but 4U1UN has been active on FT8 this week, and Sunday morning on 40m around 1015z in ARRL-CW. Since Adrian is the most frequent operator of the UN station, I gotta wonder if that's him running a contest pileup via Starlink from the Marama. If so, that would really be awesome!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 19, 2023, 05:47:41 AM
Frankly, I don't care how "relevant and attractive" FT8 is. It is not to me.
This is exactly the point I've been conveying myself these past few posts. Everybody has their own standards of achievements and that's great. Keep it at that, and operate whichever modes you like. So long as you operate courteously, legally, and if you chase paper, keep to the rules that's absolutely perfect.

This. It would be nice if perhaps we kept the FT8/No FT8... Remote/No Remote back and forth out of all these DXpedition threads. Either keep it a separate thread to bash it out to your hearts content or you do your hobby the way you want and I'll do it the way I want.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1NK on February 19, 2023, 06:03:57 AM
Frankly, I don't care how "relevant and attractive" FT8 is. It is not to me.
This is exactly the point I've been conveying myself these past few posts. Everybody has their own standards of achievements and that's great. Keep it at that, and operate whichever modes you like. So long as you operate courteously, legally, and if you chase paper, keep to the rules that's absolutely perfect.

This. It would be nice if perhaps we kept the FT8/No FT8... Remote/No Remote back and forth out of all these DXpedition threads. Either keep it a separate thread to bash it out to your hearts content or you do your hobby the way you want and I'll do it the way I want.

I'm beginning to think James Brown summed it up pretty well:
"You gotta live
For yourself
Yourself and nobody else"
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 19, 2023, 08:41:26 AM
This. It would be nice if perhaps we kept the FT8/No FT8... Remote/No Remote back and forth out of all these DXpedition threads. Either keep it a separate thread to bash it out to your hearts content or you do your hobby the way you want and I'll do it the way I want.

The modes of operation of a Dxpedition are a very relevant topic.
I know you would like it put in the closet but most of the serious DXers don't seem to agree with you.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 19, 2023, 08:49:53 AM
This. It would be nice if perhaps we kept the FT8/No FT8... Remote/No Remote back and forth out of all these DXpedition threads. Either keep it a separate thread to bash it out to your hearts content or you do your hobby the way you want and I'll do it the way I want.

The modes of operation of a Dxpedition are a very relevant topic.
I know you would like it put in the closet but most of the serious DXers don't seem to agree with you.
And we all know absolutely nothing results from all these debates yet here we are!

Waste of time.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 19, 2023, 09:26:42 AM
This. It would be nice if perhaps we kept the FT8/No FT8... Remote/No Remote back and forth out of all these DXpedition threads. Either keep it a separate thread to bash it out to your hearts content or you do your hobby the way you want and I'll do it the way I want.

The modes of operation of a Dxpedition are a very relevant topic.
I know you would like it put in the closet but most of the serious DXers don't seem to agree with you.

That's great - but let's keep it out of the DXpedition threads. The DXpedition is going to work whatever mode they want. They are putting the time, money and effort into the dxpedition - it's their choice. Not ours. Work them in the mode they choose, or not. No reason to have 30-40 pages in the dxpedition thread about why you like or dislike the mode. I think there are better places for that discussion. That's all.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 19, 2023, 10:07:29 AM
OK, I'll bite.

The DXpedition is going to work whatever mode they want. They are putting the time, money and effort into the dxpedition - it's their choice. Not ours. Work them in the mode they choose, or not.
All true!

Quote
No reason to have 30-40 pages in the dxpedition thread about why you like or dislike the mode. I think there are better places for that discussion. That's all.
OK.  Take out discussion of the mode, and what is left?  We can all see what bands/modes they plan to operate from ADXO.  We can all see what bands and modes they are actually operating from the cluster.  We can all see the photos at Facebook and DX World.  If this forum is not for discussing opinions and observations about given DXpeditions, what is it for exactly?  Serious question!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 19, 2023, 10:20:50 AM
Quote
If this forum is not for discussing opinions and observations about given DXpeditions, what is it for exactly?  Serious question!

That's not what he is talking about.

He is talking about thread crapping/whining about FT8 and that is independent, largely, of the expedition's actual choices.  If there is any FT8 at all, there is too much.  If there is a lot of FT8, it is too much.   FT8 is ranted on as the demon child and maybe the expedition is barely mentioned.  That's what he's talking about.  The whining that has little or nothing to do with the expedition at hand.

He's right.  Open up a 'I hate FT8' thread and leave all that kind of stuff over there.

Then, we can talk about the actual numbers and what mode and band seem to be in use around 1000z.  That, I think, everyone would welcome more of.  But, not the mode whining.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 19, 2023, 10:36:57 AM
We could be discussing useful tips regardless of any "thread crapping" going on, but we mostly don't. That is my point. The argument seems to be what draws people in.  Few come here to actually discuss how to get into the log.

It can't have escaped anyone's notice that we used to have much livelier and broader discussions here, with a lot more participants, and we seem to have retreated into a rut. Would be nice to find some fresh grist.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 19, 2023, 11:06:01 AM

He's right.  Open up a 'I hate FT8' thread and leave all that kind of stuff over there.


Yes, either that, or open up another 'I hate FT8' club. One just closed recently because its members had a change of heart.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 19, 2023, 02:42:02 PM
Quote
Few come here to actually discuss how to get into the log.

Welcome to the internet.  When people crap on threads, the thread gets crappy.

Either hang around for the handful of useful nuggets, which are interespersed, or give up on social media that is as free-form as eHam.  There is no third way.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 19, 2023, 02:46:58 PM
Quote
It can't have escaped anyone's notice that we used to have much livelier and broader discussions here, with a lot more participants, and we seem to have retreated into a rut. Would be nice to find some fresh grist.

I'm not sure any of that was actually true.  We argued endlessly on eHam about "no code" versus "know code' hams and all the rest of it.  Among other things.  Yes, it did pollute a lot of unrelated threads.

There are more heavily moderated fora on the internet than eHam.  Each site owner makes their own call on what to allow and what or who to throw out.

But, eHam is pretty wide open and always was.  Which means that whatever the Forces of Yesterday are sure is Ruining Ham Radio (and it's always something), then threads in here will be crapped upon bemoaning whatever is new.  FT8 is merely the latest in a long line of them.

I have no idea if eHam is growing or shrinking.  But, I don't see any real difference in S/N here from when I started long before FT8 was invented.

Like a lot of places on the internet, there's gold to be found here.  But, sometimes one has to wade through a bit to get to it.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 19, 2023, 07:23:24 PM
So I am hearing from another ham that the reason they cut the DXpedition short by 7-10 days is because they ran out of Gas!  They evidently had enough Diesel fuel to power a small town but only one drum of gas.

I get that they did not think they would be using these small generators but man that stings to know that this ended due to not having another 30 gallon drum or $100 worth of gas.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 19, 2023, 08:30:34 PM
Its one of the twenty reasons why these things are genuinely hard.

We've been blessed.  Bouvet has shown us that expensive expeditions can largely and even entirely fail.

I've been around since the late '80s.  Maybe there were some other failures, but I don't remember those.  The ones I remember all seemed to come off once the boat left the dock.

I was told by some old timers (older than I) that failures of this sort used to happen.

Maybe the law of averages is catching up to us. 

It may also be an indirect effect of all the added restrictions even in the places we are still allowed to go.  The operating location for this one was tried only once before that I have heard anything about.   It was not, so far as I know, anyone's first choice.  Experiments to make Bouvet easy to activate are very expensive.

But, somewhere in DXpedition economics, we are going to have to start factoring in the failure rate, even if we aren't fully sure what it is.  A barrel of gasoline sounds retrospectively ridiculous.  But, in truth, if the expedition has any serious problems, we can expect something of that sort to stifle us.  We have, after all, two other examples that didn't even come off this well.  There's a little bit of Rosanne Rossana Danna going on here.

Certainly, for the stuff south of 40 degrees South, we had better assume it is 50/50 at best for a while.  At least until we can find a suitable boat and crew to replace what the Braveheart did for us.

I really wanted this to be a huge success.  To prove we could really go to a place like this and knock it way down.  Instead, we have three expeditions and one decent, but (I strongly suspect) not really sufficient success.  I hope most here got their ATNO.  I even hope that, despite everything, more of the need was satisfied than appears to be the case now.  That even if every pipe dream wasn't achieved that most people's minimums were met.  But, very regrettably, I don't think that 8600 unique calls (and probably on the order of 5,000 to 6,000 actual ATNOs) are really meeting the demand.

That is, I suspect when the Clublog charts come out in a bit, say in three or six months when most of the confirmations have happened, Bouvet won't have moved as far down the ranks as we might want. Great for those of us who worked it, but no more than that.  I hope for a pleasant surprise in that regard.  But, it is hard to expect it on the data I see now.  Something beats nothing all hollow. But the need is what it is.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3YP on February 20, 2023, 12:29:11 AM
What could have been a 50,000+ QSO dxpedition. Wrong choice of extremely heavy (130kg) Hyundai 6KV diesel generators impacted this dxpedition.

Even with difficult landing they could have setup a few more stations and amplifiers with just verticals.

They should have gone with single small 2KV petrol generators per station (radio/amp).

Also someone forgot to pack some $50 usb NMEA GPS receivers for the FT8 clock sync.

John VK3YP

So I am hearing from another ham that the reason they cut the DXpedition short by 7-10 days is because they ran out of Gas!  They evidently had enough Diesel fuel to power a small town but only one drum of gas.

I get that they did not think they would be using these small generators but man that stings to know that this ended due to not having another 30 gallon drum or $100 worth of gas.

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3YP on February 20, 2023, 01:40:08 AM
Lucky they bought a Honda eu20i  :)

Kenneth Opskar
6 September 2022  ·
Raffle is going well - only ca 45 tickets left!! Final call...
Benefit of working together as a large team is that someone will come up with a brilliant idea! Some months ago a team member asked the simple question why we did not pump the fuel from the beach and up the 10-15m cliff to the camp. We started looking into this, and this week LB5GI Gjermund who is leading the logistics "department" conducted a test where he managed to pump it 20m vertically. Today we bought an Eu20i that will allow us to pump all the diesel fuel from the Cape Fie beach and up the hill and directly into the 300 liter IBC tanks. At Bouvet we will have 4x300 liter rigid IBC tanks connected in parallell fuelling our 4 x Hyundai 5 kW generators = 1200 liter IBC tanks in the camp that we easily can refuel.
Because the diesel accounts for 1/3 of the DXpedition weight budget, it will save us a lot of work as we now can pump it up!
2 ton less weight to carry
we will relieve the electric winch system
we can use the winch system in parallell with the fuel pump system to speed up the unloading and camp setup.
Some weeks ago we also bought a 3rd zodiak engine for our Military pro Zodiak so we can operate with 2 zodiaks in parallell during beach landing, but always so only one zodiak is at the beach.
We're quite confident that these two improvements will be a logistic game changer for us as we can dramatically speed up the unloading of the equipment - this fits well into our plan to go onshore even during short wx window down to 2h.
73, 3Y0J team
NB. It is not diesel being pumped, but water (which is heavier than diesel)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 20, 2023, 02:02:00 AM
What could have been a 50,000+ QSO dxpedition. Wrong choice of extremely heavy (130kg) Hyundai 6KV diesel generators impacted this dxpedition.

Even with difficult landing they could have setup a few more stations and amplifiers with just verticals.

They should have gone with single small 2KV petrol generators per station (radio/amp).

Also someone forgot to pack some $50 usb NMEA GPS receivers for the FT8 clock sync.

John VK3YP



Did they even know that they needed GPS recievers?    JTSync(free $$$) should have been installed on every laptop as a backup incase the GPS units that should have been taped to each laptop did not work.  I have used JTSync before and it works to keep a laptop with a clock that  drifts sync'ed when operating portable. 

They said on their website where they were asking for donations from the amatuer community that they were aware of the US band plans for T/G/A/E yet they always operated 15m phone outside of the General part of the band. 82% of their phone Q's were on 15m.  If I was a Genral and sent them $$ I would be pissed.  They operated 17m FT8 ouside of the US data portion of that band.  I have NEVER seen a DXped operate outside of the US data portion of a band.

Gino - KE8KMX
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2LO on February 20, 2023, 03:21:41 AM
  There have been many instances of DXpeditions operating either 1) out of the US digital allocations or 2) operating on or very close to upper US digital limits and then announcing "UP" when for US stations there's no "up" left.

  One answer is for the DX to go toward the top or even beyond the US allocation and listen down. On the cluster when stations warn "out of US band" other stations will then post responses such as "Extras, generals, etc. can operate here" which is true but not on digital.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 20, 2023, 05:46:37 AM
This video of a presentation by KO8SCA explains what 3Y0J was going to use to sync their time at 38 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4blDDQQ1JQ

They chose an Industrial Qualcom SIRF USB GPS & Glonass concurrent receiver.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294792958898

Software is NMEA TIme2 GPS and Jt Sync

I'm not sure how they wound up 15 seconds off and they could not correct it.

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W6OU on February 20, 2023, 07:05:13 AM
They should have checked the WWV one-minute time announcements against their PC clock display.  This would have shown they were 15 seconds off.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 20, 2023, 11:22:38 AM
Presuming they can get WWV way down there.

I would wonder about comparing with the ship's chronometers, which ought to be pretty good.

But then again, with the gear that is described there, it would seem likely they had every confidence in it.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 20, 2023, 11:37:45 AM
They should have checked the WWV one-minute time announcements against their PC clock display.  This would have shown they were 15 seconds off.

They simply should have installed/used JTSync.
Of course not syncing on the chaos 3Y0J caused themselves, people TXing on even and uneven but syncing on whatever other station on whatever band that was operating F/H.
Do it once a day to make certain one is syncing on EVEN and then - depending on the computer's clock drift - sync every 15' or 30' for the rest of the day.

JTSync is dead simple and above all accurate.
Considering the chaos 3Y0J caused by not having time correct was/is unforgivable for these so called experienced DXers. 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 20, 2023, 02:14:13 PM
They should have checked the WWV one-minute time announcements against their PC clock display.  This would have shown they were 15 seconds off.

They simply should have installed/used JTSync.
Of course not syncing on the chaos 3Y0J caused themselves, people TXing on even and uneven but syncing on whatever other station on whatever band that was operating F/H.
Do it once a day to make certain one is syncing on EVEN and then - depending on the computer's clock drift - sync every 15' or 30' for the rest of the day.

JTSync is dead simple and above all accurate.
Considering the chaos 3Y0J caused by not having time correct was/is unforgivable for these so called experienced DXers.

Lets face it, the list of issues is very long.  It starts with having one boat to carry in the supplies.
That is a single failure point issue and is the reason plans are made in the first place. Avoid them and always have alternatives.   If their alternative was to use those Honda EU20i generators then they should have had enough of them plus enough fuel to carry out the full dxpedition.   Simpler plan would have been to bring a backup boat or bring three Zodiacs as big as the one that got destroyed.

Sometimes I wonder if they even researched this Simple $30 cable that would have allowed them to operate legal limit amps with these tiny generators.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNTwopFvSIw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNTwopFvSIw)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 20, 2023, 03:04:06 PM

Lets face it, the list of issues is very long.  It starts with having one boat to carry in the supplies.


They had 2 Zodiacs.

Sitting in the basement criticizing others for doing something without knowing the facts isn't a good idea.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VE3VEE on February 20, 2023, 03:10:41 PM
+1

We all know it all after the fact, don't we.  ;D ;D ;D

IMHO for every single one "mistake" they did hundreds of things right.

Marvin VE3VEE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 20, 2023, 03:35:27 PM
+1

We all know it all after the fact, don't we.  ;D ;D ;D

IMHO for every single one "mistake" they did hundreds of things right.

Marvin VE3VEE

And they made plenty a mistakes. Planning quite clearly as time went on has shown not to be their forte.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 20, 2023, 03:46:30 PM

Lets face it, the list of issues is very long.  It starts with having one boat to carry in the supplies.


They had 2 Zodiacs.

Sitting in the basement criticizing others for doing something without knowing the facts isn't a good idea.

As far as I am told they had three Zodiacs but only one of them was the large one for carrying the Equipment.  That is why when it got punctured the carrying of the generator got scrapped.


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 20, 2023, 03:53:07 PM

Lets face it, the list of issues is very long.  It starts with having one boat to carry in the supplies.


They had 2 Zodiacs.

Sitting in the basement criticizing others for doing something without knowing the facts isn't a good idea.

As far as I am told they had three Zodiacs but only one of them was the large one for carrying the Equipment.  That is why when it got punctured the carrying of the generator got scrapped.

Got it! Three Zodias isn't enough duplication. They should have had ####.
Some do...  Others criticize. 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 20, 2023, 03:58:52 PM

Lets face it, the list of issues is very long.  It starts with having one boat to carry in the supplies.


They had 2 Zodiacs.

Sitting in the basement criticizing others for doing something without knowing the facts isn't a good idea.

As far as I am told they had three Zodiacs but only one of them was the large one for carrying the Equipment.  That is why when it got punctured the carrying of the generator got scrapped.

Pops the questions as to why RIB's weren't used. Was the dinghy - cause that's what it was - in the end a total loss? Couldn't it be repaired, no repair kit on board?
Also knowing there was no lifting equipment on Marama, no crane. Nobody gave it a thought that getting heavy diesel generators in and out the zodiac on the side of the Marama but also on the beach was likely going to be wishful thinking?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 20, 2023, 03:59:25 PM

And they made plenty a mistakes. Planning quite clearly as time went on has shown not to be their forte.

Yep but for all those in the Log, especially those with multiple contacts it's a Sin for anyone to point out anything they did wrong.   Oh no don't criticize the mistakes just be happy they made it home alive.
I remember one Ham on here in this very thread asking why don't they upload the Logs right away because anything could happen! ???  I was kind of shocked that someone would so blatantly make it clear that the Logs where more important that the expedition crew. 

Anyway my statements would not change if I am in the Log or not, this thing was a mess from day one until the end.  Even the Pilots did not realize until half way through the DXpedition that they needed to post where and when they were operating.   That might have saved me wasting 20 hours of working Slims.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W6OU on February 20, 2023, 04:02:09 PM

They simply should have installed/used JTSync. .....


They didn't have access to an Internet NTP service to get them close to time sync.  JTSync can be used to sync to the average or single window of received stations but it doesn't independently know which time window it is decoding.  For example, if the PC clock has an error of 17 seconds the use of JTSYnc will reduce the error to 15 seconds but not to 0 seconds unless the user knew it was way off.  They could have used WWV to get within one second of the actual time then used JTSync to reduce the residual error.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 20, 2023, 04:06:25 PM

Got it! Three Zodias isn't enough duplication. They should have had ####.
Some do...  Others criticize.

What about this is so hard for you to comprehend!
The whole success of the DXpedition lied on the fact that they could get the Generators and Diesel fuel to the Island.  THEY ONLY HAD ONE ZODIAC BIG ENOUGH TO CARRY THE GENERATOR.  When that got ripped on day two of the Dxpedition all of the months of planing went out the Window.   After that they had to depend on the two smaller ones which could not carry the Generators.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 20, 2023, 04:11:29 PM

They simply should have installed/used JTSync. .....


They didn't have access to an Internate NTP service to get them close to time sync.  JTSync can be used to sync to the average or single window of received stations but it doesn't independently know which time window it is decoding.  For example, if the PC clock has an error of 17 seconds the use of JTSYnc will reduce the error to 15 seconds but not to 0 seconds unless the user knew it was way off.  They could have used WWV to get within one second of the actual time then used JTSync to reduce the residual error.

That's why I wrote they were to at least daily sync on another station - and maybe yet a few more - operating F/H, making sure they were syncing on EVEN. Enough stations around they could use to help them out.

By the way, plenty a watches available today that don't even lose a second over a months time. And also why didn't they sync on board? Also while they were on land, why didn't they contact Marama to get a time update. Also any decent satellite phone shows the time correct up to the second.

Questions I guess that will see no proper answer when the hero's are back on solid ground.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 20, 2023, 05:16:05 PM

Got it! Three Zodias isn't enough duplication. They should have had ####.
Some do...  Others criticize.

What about this is so hard for you to comprehend?

Let’s review -

They had 3, each of which is large enough but they apparently choose not to because of an earlier accident. Are you following?

I’ve hauled larger generators, engine and supplies ashore in smaller tenders. Are you following that?

You have gotten everything wrong in these pages back to the beginning. I am following that!
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 20, 2023, 07:13:07 PM
3Y0J = 18,846 Q's.

61% CW
27% FT8
12% SSB

All this NTP-JTS-F/H-FT8 blah, blah, blah - sounds like you text messaging guys have hijacked another DXpedition thread.

Bwahahahahaha!

Maybe those diesel generators (and an amp or two) are at the bottom of the sea?

4.4 MPH.  Looks to be several more days of travel 'till these guys are reunited with their families.  What a voyage!

NØUN

(https://www.n0un.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/Screenshot-2023-02-20-200707.png)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 20, 2023, 09:38:29 PM

Let’s review -

They had 3, each of which is large enough but they apparently choose not to because of an earlier accident. Are you following?

I’ve hauled larger generators, engine and supplies ashore in smaller tenders. Are you following that?

You have gotten everything wrong in these pages back to the beginning. I am following that!

Oh I get it, they had everything they needed to do the full Dxpedition but they chose make it a two radio no Amp or Beam Dxpedition and cut the time in half on purpose.  Yeah that makes a lot of Sense ::) ::)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K0AP on February 20, 2023, 09:41:29 PM

Got it! Three Zodias isn't enough duplication. They should have had ####.
Some do...  Others criticize.

What about this is so hard for you to comprehend?

Let’s review -

They had 3, each of which is large enough but they apparently choose not to because of an earlier accident. Are you following?

I’ve hauled larger generators, engine and supplies ashore in smaller tenders. Are you following that?

You have gotten everything wrong in these pages back to the beginning. I am following that!

If they could repeat the 3Y0J over again, I am pretty sure they would go with much smaller generators (Honda's) rather than these 250 pound beasts. I am more than thankful for the two QSO's I've made with 3Y0J but there were some critical mistakes made with the planning and execution of this highly anticipated DXpedition. I am glad they are safe and on their way home.

73 Dragan K0AP
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on February 21, 2023, 01:39:50 AM
+1

We all know it all after the fact, don't we.  ;D ;D ;D

IMHO for every single one "mistake" they did hundreds of things right.

Marvin VE3VEE

That might be true for you and I, but there were several people who donated thousands of dollars into this DX'pedition who never made it in the log. Their view of "success" might not be so optimistic.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N1UR on February 21, 2023, 03:15:12 AM
They kind of remind me of some of the kids I knew in college that were very proud of pulling all nighters before the final exam because they hadn't studied enough prior.  If they had, they wouldn't have needed to pull the all nighter.

Because we didn't have the right Zodiac - equipment balance, we got in trouble fast.  But we recovered and got 3Y0J on the air.  Which they did, but it doesn't mean it was a success.  It just wasn't a total failure like the 2 attempts before.  Somewhat of a low bar given the $750,000 raised and the grand plans promoted.

I don't think their reception is going to be as good as they think it will be doing the DX gathering circuit.  There will be A LOT of questions after the usual - glad you made some Qs and everyone stayed safe....but....

Ed  N1UR
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7JQ on February 21, 2023, 04:53:04 AM
Sholda done this, shoulda done that….  Monday morning quarterbacks ;).
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W9AC on February 21, 2023, 05:50:30 AM
3Y0J = 18,846 Q's.

61% CW
27% FT8
12% SSB

And now there's plenty of time for FT8 ops to learn CW for the next activation.  Skills can be developed to attain a competitive edge over others that's missing from FT8. 

FT8 ops have relished in a mode that evens the playing field.  Well, they got it.  Apart from tinkering with the FT8 transmit frequency, no other skill or operating finesse is required.

Paul, W9AC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 21, 2023, 05:55:26 AM

Let’s review -

They had 3, each of which is large enough but they apparently choose not to because of an earlier accident. Are you following?

I’ve hauled larger generators, engine and supplies ashore in smaller tenders. Are you following that?

You have gotten everything wrong in these pages back to the beginning. I am following that!

Oh I get it, they had everything they needed to do the full Dxpedition but they chose make it a two radio no Amp or Beam Dxpedition and cut the time in half on purpose.  Yeah that makes a lot of Sense ::) ::)

No, you don’t “get it”. They didn’t “chose” to make it that way.

I’m beginning to think you have a comprehension issue. Regardless, putting yourself way high up on a pedestal from which you look down in judgment isn’t a smart thing to do. Although I don’t know you, I am confident you aren’t qualified to judge.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 21, 2023, 06:10:20 AM
So, how does one get a QSL from this expedition?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K4HB on February 21, 2023, 06:20:24 AM
So, how does one get a QSL from this expedition?

https://www.3y0j.no/qsl-policy (https://www.3y0j.no/qsl-policy)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7JQ on February 21, 2023, 06:25:41 AM

Apart from tinkering with the FT8 transmit frequency, no other skill or operating finesse is required.

Paul, W9AC

Manual dexterity is required to point-and-click with the mouse. Does that count as “skill/finesse” ::)?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 21, 2023, 07:22:31 AM
3Y0J = 18,846 Q's.

61% CW
27% FT8
12% SSB

And now there's plenty of time for FT8 ops to learn CW for the next activation.  Skills can be developed to attain a competitive edge over others that's missing from FT8. 

FT8 ops have relished in a mode that evens the playing field.  Well, they got it.  Apart from tinkering with the FT8 transmit frequency, no other skill or operating finesse is required.

Paul, W9AC


Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during  a contest on CW.  Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another.    :D :) ;)


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 21, 2023, 07:34:57 AM
Too funny.


Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during  a contest on CW.  Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another.    :D :) ;)
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 21, 2023, 07:35:46 AM



Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during  a contest on CW.  Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another.    :D :) ;)
Credibility isn’t something you should seem eager to immediately destroy.
As if that can possibly work in the real world.
Please don’t insult our intelligence with such nonsense.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE4YD on February 21, 2023, 07:38:05 AM
Was this operation a failure, no, they did get on the air and make contacts.
Was this operation a success, no, not from the standpoint of expectations.
Let's say it was somewhere in the middle, a better word might be disappointment.
Congratulations to all who made it and condolences to those did not.
Maybe with the way things turned out, someone else will try again in the not so distant future and not have to wait 20 years.
73's David
KE4YD
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W9AC on February 21, 2023, 07:43:16 AM
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during  a contest on CW.  Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another.    :D :) ;)

From QRZ: "I have been a tech since Aug of 2018, general as of Oct 2018 and extra since Jan 2019."

You've not been active long enough to know any better.  Read the first few chapters from "The Complete DXer" by W9KNI.

Paul, W9AC
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 21, 2023, 07:59:39 AM
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during  a contest on CW.  Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another.    :D :) ;)

Oh really? 

Your "5NN TU" is an invalid contest exchange. 

I don't need a program to decode CW, TYVM.  Do you?  ;D  ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;) ;D ;) ;)

What direction would you turn your antenna to work V85RH on 40m at 2200Z? 

 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 21, 2023, 08:03:24 AM
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during  a contest on CW.  Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another.    :D :) ;)

Oh really? 

Your "5NN TU" is an invalid contest exchange. 

I don't need a program to decode CW, TYVM.  Do you?  ;D  ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;) ;D ;) ;)

What direction would you turn your antenna to work V85RH on 40m at 2200Z?

My 40m antenna is a 40/75 Windom so there is nothing to turn.


Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7JQ on February 21, 2023, 08:16:09 AM

And now there's plenty of time for FT8 ops to learn CW for the next activation.  Skills can be developed to attain a competitive edge over others that's missing from FT8. 
 
Apart from tinkering with the FT8 transmit frequency, no other skill or operating finesse is required.

Paul, W9AC


Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during  a contest on CW.  Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another.    :D :) ;)

Sure, with today's technology...spotting clusters, CW decoders, and macro memories...you can pretty much "game the system" on CW. And you're not breaking any contest rules. But while clusters and transmit memories have become embedded in contest logging programs, and  commonplace in contests (for rate speed and convenience), I'll bet you that there's a miniscule percentage of CW operators that use decoders to copy the various contest exchanges required. Try using one in Sweepstakes ;). You still have to know Morse code...an acquired skill.

Let's face it...FT8/4 is a computer program with two operations...1. Point-and-click, and 2. Cross your fingers. Totally silent...a visual operation only. Please explain the operating skill/finesse in that.

If you think we're all getting on your case with your ridiculous statement, you're right!

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 21, 2023, 08:21:12 AM
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during  a contest on CW.  Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another.    :D :) ;)

Oh really? 

Your "5NN TU" is an invalid contest exchange. 

I don't need a program to decode CW, TYVM.  Do you?  ;D  ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;D ;) ;) ;D ;) ;)

What direction would you turn your antenna to work V85RH on 40m at 2200Z?

My 40m antenna is a 40/75 Windom so there is nothing to turn.

Thanks for proving my point that you have ZERO KNOWLEDGE of propagation.  One of many skills required to work DX during a CW contest.  Yet you claim "there is no skill." 

You are a fraud. 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 21, 2023, 08:22:30 AM

My 40m antenna is a 40/75 Windom so there is nothing to turn.
Telling you call it a 75m windom.
From which store did you buy it?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 21, 2023, 08:34:59 AM

My 40m antenna is a 40/75 Windom so there is nothing to turn.
Telling you call it a 75m windom.
From which store did you buy it?

Windom is another term for an off center feed dipole(OCFD).   It's a Mighty Fine Junk brand 40/75m OCFD.  75= cut for the phone portion of the 80m band.   I am almost sure I bought it via Dx Engineering.

Here is a link to the product.   

https://mfjenterprises.com/products/mfj-2014


Gino
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 21, 2023, 09:01:59 AM


Windom is another term for an off center feed dipole(OCFD)
I think it’s adorable that you think everyone here doesn’t already know that.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 21, 2023, 11:19:43 AM


Bwahahahahaha!

Maybe those diesel generators (and an amp or two) are at the bottom of the sea?


I see once again see that as you said, those who know, know and those who don't know will never know. 

73s
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KD8MJR on February 21, 2023, 11:28:02 AM
They kind of remind me of some of the kids I knew in college that were very proud of pulling all nighters before the final exam because they hadn't studied enough prior.  If they had, they wouldn't have needed to pull the all nighter.

Because we didn't have the right Zodiac - equipment balance, we got in trouble fast.  But we recovered and got 3Y0J on the air.  Which they did, but it doesn't mean it was a success.  It just wasn't a total failure like the 2 attempts before.  Somewhat of a low bar given the $750,000 raised and the grand plans promoted.

I don't think their reception is going to be as good as they think it will be doing the DX gathering circuit.  There will be A LOT of questions after the usual - glad you made some Qs and everyone stayed safe....but....

Ed  N1UR

I already know that the reception is not going to be good.  A few deluded individuals are using the posts on eHam as some kind of gauge.  This section of eHam is full of people with good stations, yet they are still surprisingly out of the loop as to what is really going on.

 The general DXing community was not blessed with 2-3 contacts, they got none and from what I am hearing they are very angry.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WO7R on February 21, 2023, 11:37:47 AM
Quote
The general DXing community was not blessed with 2-3 contacts, they got none and from what I am hearing they are very angry.

Probably.  But I have found "the general DXing community" to be remarkably uninformed about DXpeditioning.

Many (and I've seen them post here) seem to think that DXing to rare places is like buying a toaster.  You pay your money, you get your QSOs.

Many more think that they can sit back, judge and expedition and then maybe send it three bucks for a card and we'll get all the expeditions we want.

No doubt the anger you cite is real, but these same folks are also hungry to work these places.  Eventually, the few that do so now will pony up in advance again.

The rest never support an expedition up-front (the money that really matters as far as the ship leaving port), so in the end, their anger doesn't really matter.

It is the anger of the advance donors, and how long it lasts, that will tell the tale.  But, if we talk ourselves out of further experiments, then that will be yet another reason DXing is harder than it should be.

This time, we'll have done it to ourselves.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K1VSK on February 21, 2023, 11:44:44 AM


I already know that the reception is not going to be good.  A few deluded individuals are using the posts on eHam as some kind of gauge.  This section of eHam is full of people with good stations, yet they are still surprisingly out of the loop as to what is really going on.

 The general DXing community was not blessed with 2-3 contacts, they got none and from what I am hearing they are very angry.

No one here needs you, me or anyone else to tell them what to think. Or that they can’t think. You might want to reflect on your prior comments here to understand that.

I suspect their “reception” will vary based on those making informed vs. uninformed judgments with a dash of frustration for the unsuccessful group due to not making one of the thousands of qsos completed. But as we see everyone now in the news, it’s easy for those adverse to introspection to misplace blame.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 21, 2023, 12:03:19 PM
I see once again see that as you said, those who know, know and those who don't know will never know. 
73s

"noted"

:)

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KW4CQ on February 21, 2023, 12:13:33 PM
I tried and tried, day and night, unsucessfully to make at least one contact in order to nudge my 314 for 314 DXCC count towards the Honor Role.  My kw and ocfd here in my HOA got a real workout and I did as well.  But, it just wasn't to be this time. At age 87 and after nearly 70 years in this wonderful hobby I am not complaining or greiving as some seem to be.  Disappointed yes but not sad or angry despite the poor band conditions for North America and the DQRM, etc.  I am happy for my fellow hams who were sucessful in making their ATNO.  Those who had to get them on every band and mode, despit the pleas to not be greedy, was a bit disappointing however.  I can walk away from all this with the satisfaction that at least I tried in my glorious quest to "reach that unreachable star"*.  As for me, that's all that matters. 
73 and see you in the next pileups.  Bob KW4CQ

*My appologies to Don Quixote
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N2SR on February 21, 2023, 12:26:27 PM
Sure, with today's technology...spotting clusters, CW decoders, and macro memories...you can pretty much "game the system" on CW. And you're not breaking any contest rules. But while clusters and transmit memories have become embedded in contest logging programs, and  commonplace in contests (for rate speed and convenience), I'll bet you that there's a miniscule percentage of CW operators that use decoders to copy the various contest exchanges required. Try using one in Sweepstakes ;). You still have to know Morse code...an acquired skill.


Agreed.  Of course there will always be "purists" who say that computer sent code isn't "real" operating.  My response to them is:  Have you heard some of the operators at Field Day? 

And isn't there an idea not to stay technology stagnant, but to push and utilize new technology whenever possible?  As long as it is within the rules, and everyone participating has the ability to acquire that technology of course.   

As you said, decoders work - most of the time, but AFAIK, you need to really crank down the filtering to minimize any QRM, which can make it a slow process to tune in the station to allow the decoder to work. 

OTOH, if you were a DX station, you could set up the RBN that you connected to, to give you states/prov, so that you only had to tune to the frequency and keep sending your callsign until you heard (or decode) your own callsign coming back.  That would not have worked for stateside stations because of the huge variation in cut number sent power. 

BTW, I know you are HOA limited, but still a nice score in the contest. 
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 21, 2023, 12:57:48 PM
"Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during  a contest on CW.  Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another."

Why not give that a shot sometime and let us know how it works out for you :-)


John K5MO
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: LA7GIA on February 21, 2023, 01:00:20 PM
Only 4 days until we reach Cape Town! I only wish we had popcorn here at Marama I could enjoy while reading eham ha ha

I am open for any serious an well thought questions. I am not going anywhere in 4 days, so have plenty of time answering what we succeeded with, and what we did not.

Congrats to those who made it in the log!

73 from South Atlantic Ocean
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N0UN on February 21, 2023, 01:10:22 PM
Only 4 days until we reach Cape Town! I only wish we had popcorn here at Marama I could enjoy while reading eham ha ha

I am open for any serious an well thought questions. I am not going anywhere in 4 days, so have plenty of time answering what we succeeded with, and what we did not.

Congrats to those who made it in the log!

73 from South Atlantic Ocean

This post!  Winner of the Internet today!

Hope it's warming up some. Thanks for activating Bouvet Ken!  #337!

NØUN
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7JQ on February 21, 2023, 01:15:10 PM

BTW, I know you are HOA limited, but still a nice score in the contest.


Thanks. I heard you in there a few times...your 5.1M isn't too shabby either...huge ;)! My ground-mounted screwdriver antenna was working hard for the 20 hours I spent (unassisted this year), and per my buddy Fred NA2U..."There ain't no meters like 10 meters". Now in AZ for 31 years and a member of the Arizona Outlaws Contest Club, I spent my first 33 ham radio years in Philly (K3JIV), and knew a number of FRC members back then.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: EI2GLB on February 21, 2023, 01:17:01 PM
Thanks Ken to you and the team for risking your life to give us a new one,

Safe travels home,

No one here can tell you what you should have done as they were not on the ground there to know what the conditions were like,

Ignore the haters you did what many before failed to do and that was get to make QSO's from Bouvet,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB


Only 4 days until we reach Cape Town! I only wish we had popcorn here at Marama I could enjoy while reading eham ha ha

I am open for any serious an well thought questions. I am not going anywhere in 4 days, so have plenty of time answering what we succeeded with, and what we did not.

Congrats to those who made it in the log!

73 from South Atlantic Ocean
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KJ4Z on February 21, 2023, 01:19:28 PM
Only 4 days until we reach Cape Town! I only wish we had popcorn here at Marama I could enjoy while reading eham ha ha

Welcome to 2023, lol.  Thanks for the QSOs.  When do you think the video will be coming out?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: ON6KE on February 21, 2023, 01:26:49 PM
Only 4 days until we reach Cape Town! I only wish we had popcorn here at Marama I could enjoy while reading eham ha ha

I am open for any serious an well thought questions. I am not going anywhere in 4 days, so have plenty of time answering what we succeeded with, and what we did not.

Congrats to those who made it in the log!

73 from South Atlantic Ocean

I have got one for you Ken. Did you guys lose a generator or amplifier whilst trying to get to land with the zodiac? Lose as in equipment lost  overboard?
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB8GAE on February 21, 2023, 01:37:42 PM
I am open for any serious an well thought questions. I am not going anywhere in 4 days, so have plenty of time answering what we succeeded with, and what we did not.

Hi Ken,

TU for the Q from 3Y.

What were the issues with trying to get the time in sync on FT8?

Is there anything you would recommend to future Dxpeditions to prevent this from happening?

73 Rich KB8GAE
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on February 21, 2023, 01:40:27 PM
Hello Ken ‘GIA, I’d be curious to see the old beach photo you had to use.
73 Paul
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KE8KMX on February 21, 2023, 01:41:34 PM
"Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during  a contest on CW.  Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another."

Why not give that a shot sometime and let us know how it works out for you :-)


John K5MO


  LOL.    I wanted to see how quickly I could get 100 confirmed via LOTW - 2 months but a good bit of that of that was waiting for uploads.   
Current LOTW count is 132.    13 new ones this weekend.   So far AZERBAIJAN, CYPRUS, SARDINIA, VANUATU, and BRITISH VIRGIN ISLANDS have confirmed. Waiting on UN, Kenya, Mongolia, Sudan, Kiliningrad, Columbia, Jersey and Barbados.      None of my "cheating" has added to my mixed total.  It's all countries I already have.   


I helped a guy recently via PM's on another board in setting up CWDecoder and his 7300.    I sent him a message yesterday asking him if he "worked" the CW contest this weekend with his new skill.   His response.


"I worked 70 different countries in 102 QSO's. All on 10M CW"


Gino

Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K7KB on February 21, 2023, 01:46:50 PM

Apart from tinkering with the FT8 transmit frequency, no other skill or operating finesse is required.

Paul, W9AC

Manual dexterity is required to point-and-click with the mouse. Does that count as “skill/finesse” ::)?

Not any more than pushing the M1 key on my 7610 :P
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: KB2FCV on February 21, 2023, 02:22:08 PM
Only 4 days until we reach Cape Town! I only wish we had popcorn here at Marama I could enjoy while reading eham ha ha

I am open for any serious an well thought questions. I am not going anywhere in 4 days, so have plenty of time answering what we succeeded with, and what we did not.

Congrats to those who made it in the log!

73 from South Atlantic Ocean

Hi Ken, wishing you and your team safe travels home! Thank you very much for you and your team's efforts in putting Bouvet on the air. I'm greatful for my QSO and for the ATNO! I think you guys did a great job - adapting as you had to in order to get Bouvet on the air.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: K5MO on February 21, 2023, 05:53:58 PM
Gino, of course one *can* make some contacts (particularly on a wide open, uncrowded 10M band) with robo CW, but you're not going to make a whole lot of them, or much of any in marginal conditions . 

Fourty meters at 8PM Saturday night might be quite a bit more challenging.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: VK3KTT on February 21, 2023, 06:00:01 PM
hey Ken thanks for the post and thanks for the atno you and the crew never disappoint if my station is working as it should. It was great to have the pipe line to vk for 30 mins every night on 17m  every one who had a reasonable setup and was there got you guys in the log. I'm very happy ever one is safe and on the way home that was always very important

ok a question for Ken la7gia and the 3y0j crew could you explain why you chose not to use 20m very much or 40m, 20m is a big mystery for most of us.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: WA2VUY on February 21, 2023, 06:01:34 PM
@Ken, GIA: regarding band choices, why no 20m? Alot of questions about that.

My opinion is that 3Y0J will be looked back upon as epic. Congratulations.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: N5PG on February 21, 2023, 06:33:13 PM
Grid Squares ?

Look West, especially on 6mtrs:
   https://www.dx-world.net/kh7z-mm-gridding-across-the-pacific/
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 21, 2023, 08:34:12 PM
What direction would you turn your antenna to work V85RH on 40m at 2200Z?
I wouldn't have known until 2200z on Sunday. Thank you for that tip, incidentally. Greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W2IRT on February 21, 2023, 09:11:37 PM
Zero "skill" is needed to work a DXped or DX during  a contest on CW. Install CWDecoder on you PC and then program your call in one memory of your IC-7300 and 5NN TU in another.
I've yet to see a CW Decoder that's more than "very casual" help, at best. I love operating CW, but I cannot run in that mode. I can do assisted S/P pretty and scour mults really well by ear but couldn't run in a DX CW contest if my life depended on it. That skill is the difference between great CW ops and guys like me. I freely admit my code sucks and will always suck, but it's just so enjoyable to do, even knowing my skill limits.

I keep CW GET running in a window but it's more useless than useful. Occasionally I will be able to look and see a missed exchange or a callsign my brain just went tilt when trying to copy, but otherwise decoders are laughable when signals are marginal.

When I first started getting serious about CW contests the best tool I found that enabled me (and probably thousands of other crappy CW ops) to operate CW contests competently was ESM mode in N1MM. I don't have to worry about a suddenly sloppy fist, but when it comes to calling in the proper time and getting the speed just right what I find today works better is having N1MM set to 35 WPM, and my paddles set to 25 to call slower stations.
Title: Re: 3Y0J Bouvet
Post by: W1VT on February 21, 2023, 09:23:28 PM
I don't use a memory keyer.  I count on using my keyer paddle to send call sign fills.  When I worked 9N7AA he first got my call as K1VT. 
I'm sure I sent W1 a couple times instead of just mashing a keyer memory button a few times. 
I've heard other operators just repeat their call over and over again and that doesn't seem to work as well.

As a stroke survivor I'm pleased to know I've recovered from the stroke well enough to do that.  Not everyone makes that sort of recovery.
It wasn't just another CW contact.  It was entity #325 on CW.