eHam
eHam Forums => CW => Topic started by: KM3K on March 09, 2023, 11:26:11 AM
-
Hello,
I'm working toward making my first CW QSO.
Can copy with pen/paper at 13 wpm "somewhat pretty good".
Problem is in sending; using CT755 (single-lever-paddle) and display on Elecraft's KX3.
Prosigns are not an issue since they have only two or three letters.
My QTH is "Carlisle"; it is hard for me, so I practice that a lot since that's a typical item to send.
I need something to see what I've keyed after I have completed the word.
The KX3 does not do that for me.
I am not able to simultaneously concentrate on keying and also watch the display.
Sidecar was suggested but its $300 price-tag is a dead-end for this retired, limited-budget "no-code Extra".
Is there any other help for me?
TIA for any assistance.
73 jerry km3k
-
Try PRECISION CW Fistcheck
https://www.qsl.net/dj7hs/download.htm (https://www.qsl.net/dj7hs/download.htm)
-
Jerry, the KX3 displays characters sent using the internal keyer. While the characters quickly scroll across the limited screen, it is sufficient to check that what you think you are sending is really what is going out.
See Text decode and display in the KX3 manual.
73 Dave
-
Go to eBay and type in "morse decoder" and you'll see a bunch of options. I don't know how reliable the Chicom stuff is and I won't buy it, but it's there. I have a Japanese made GHD decoder I use for monitoring my straight key code and it seems to be very accurate unless my speed varies too much but it was about $180. It shows 26 characters - enough to show the entire alphabet or a string of text without having to look up each time I key a word. It's really helped my accuracy. MFJ sells one as well.
Oh, I saw an ad yesterday for a used "Morserino 32" on QRZ - look that one up. It has a bunch of training features, but the one I liked was a feature that you have to key in what the unit sends you and it tells you whether you got it right or not. I thought that would be cool, but someone snapped it up while I was researching it and they're out of stock.
Good luck and congrats on the copying - that's my weakest area.
-
One of those cheap MFJ decoders might work but your sending needs to be quite precise for them to work correctly.
-
Best to base your learning and understanding of Morse Code on sound only. If you can hear and learn the rhythm properly you can tell how well you are sending with a sidetone.
It's mostly a matter of more practice. Keep at it and you'll soon be able to send correctly and assure yourself by what you hear.
-
Hello,
I'm working toward making my first CW QSO.
Can copy with pen/paper at 13 wpm "somewhat pretty good".
Problem is in sending; using CT755 (single-lever-paddle) and display on Elecraft's KX3.
Prosigns are not an issue since they have only two or three letters.
My QTH is "Carlisle"; it is hard for me, so I practice that a lot since that's a typical item to send.
I need something to see what I've keyed after I have completed the word.
The KX3 does not do that for me.
I am not able to simultaneously concentrate on keying and also watch the display.
Sidecar was suggested but its $300 price-tag is a dead-end for this retired, limited-budget "no-code Extra".
Is there any other help for me?
TIA for any assistance.
73 jerry km3k
I sent you an email (To your email address posted on QRZ)
DE NN2X
-
What speed are you trying to send at? Have you ever tried a straight key?
-
Have you ever tried a straight key?
Well THAT won't teach him how to send correctly :-(
-
Oh yes it will. Many ops myself included learned to properly use a straight key. Me in 1954. There are many ops that practice correctly sending with a straight key. It’s an art. Maybe you should learn it.
Gary W0CKI
-
I second W6MK. Most people who want to learn the code start out with a straight key and oscillator because they're cheaper. I could send perfect code before I was able to copy it.
Sound to me that just a little more practice, perhaps using a tape recorder, will solve your problem.
As an aside, I wish more CW OP's would listen to themselves with a tape recorder along with a recording of W1AW's CW practice sessions.
-
I second W6MK. Most people who want to learn the code start out with a straight key and oscillator because they're cheaper. I could send perfect code before I was able to copy it.
Sound to me that just a little more practice, perhaps using a tape recorder, will solve your problem.
As an aside, I wish more CW OP's would listen to themselves with a tape recorder along with a recording of W1AW's CW practice sessions.
We were expected to be able to send along with the instructor, same speed spacing, and of course exactly the same text. Normally something like the Daily Telegraph.
Woe and betide you if you got to the end of the paragraph even milliseconds before he did.
Mind you we could all send damn fine morse. Thank you Mr Baker I think it was from memory.
-
Hello,
...
My QTH is "Carlisle"....
...
73 jerry km3k
If you are planning on taking CW seriously, I would recommend moving house! :-)
Martin (G8FXC)
-
BBW: Gavin, Nothing like copying Morse from hundreds of operators, 40 hours a week to make one appreciate a good fist!
It's good to read of efforts to improve one's fist. It indicates that they're aware that their sending needs improving.
Sorry about your arthritic hands. I've developed Parkinson's and can't send at all. Proves once again that the "house" is the card dealer.
I like that: "A friendly voice on many a dark night." (Bennett)
-
There are several Morse Decoder apps in the various App stores that will run on mobile phones (Android or iPhone). Put one next to your code practice oscillator and see if it can decode what you think you are keying.
-
BBW: Gavin, Nothing like copying Morse from hundreds of operators, 40 hours a week to make one appreciate a good fist!
It's good to read of efforts to improve one's fist. It indicates that they're aware that their sending needs improving.
Sorry about your arthritic hands. I've developed Parkinson's and can't send at all. Proves once again that the "house" is the card dealer.
I like that: "A friendly voice on many a dark night." (Bennett)
We did try to be friendly most of the time, especially on RT it could make or break a difficult call.
As for the CW, well that is why we had to do 28wpm, the passy boats were all 1st class PMG ops at 25wpm and we had to have a bit of a margin on top of them. Good ships, Bad ships and bloody Hardships we worked them all.
My hands, well they may have found the cause, and with it may come some management, also just moved into town so no farm jobs now, and it is much easier.
My favourite bit used to be the Pacific Watch at night, you had a dedicated 10kw TX with a Big RLP on it, and you could swing it around LP / SP all over the Pacific, used to get the odd few ships that were just to weak to make in the normal call band situation.
Maybe not so friendly at 0745, and 300 words plus some domestic traffic, hopefully someone would come through the door and take over from you, so you could get off to bedie bies.
Cheers from a very pleasant Whangarei today. Gavin
-
Have you ever tried a straight key?
Well THAT won't teach him how to send correctly :-(
Oh yes it will. Many ops myself included learned to properly use a straight key. Me in 1954. There are many ops that practice correctly sending with a straight key. It’s an art. Maybe you should learn it.
Gary W0CKI
I'll never agree that abusing Morse code with a straight key on the air teaches people to send correctly !
Why would I want to go back 55 years to when all I had was a straight key? I stopped using a straight key after 2 months as a Novice when I copied over 20 wpm. Struggling with fast sending with a hand key isn't fun, it's a chore. And I love CW because it's FUN.
Electronic keyers and nicely crafted keyer paddles make fast CW fun !
Glenn AE0Q
-
AE0Q: I think the reasoning behind opinions why some suggest learning to send proper code with a hand key vs. using a keyer or bug is because with the later it's necessary to learn two crafts simultaneously.
While technically, the same can be said of learning to pump a hand key, I think we all can agree that it requires a lot more hand dexterity (as well as mental acuity) to learn a keyer or a bug while learningproper element length and spacing.
When learning to send and receive Morse, we all want to do the easiest and fastest.
-
I can see where reading when trying to send is not the way to go. So stop reading. Even reading what you send when it's not scrolling would be hard while sending.
Record your practice on your phone, then play it back and see if you can copy it. Don't send faster than you can copy. Do one thing at a time! Maybe wait till the next day to play it back so it's not fresh in your mind.
Morse code is the great equalizer in ham radio. You can't just buy your way in like you can with newer radios, bigger amps or higher antennas. A bright shiny new gizmo won't take the place of time and practice.
In today's 5NN TX 73 type contacts, I don't hear many people giving their city. You're lucky to get their 2 letter state abbreviation!
If you can copy what people are sending, get on the air. Doesn't matter what speed. It's the best way to become fluent in the language. And it's lots of fun.
-
AE0Q: I think the reasoning behind opinions why some suggest learning to send proper code with a hand key vs. using a keyer or bug is because with the later it's necessary to learn two crafts simultaneously.
While technically, the same can be said of learning to pump a hand key, I think we all can agree that it requires a lot more hand dexterity (as well as mental acuity) to learn a keyer or a bug while learningproper element length and spacing.
Apparently not everyone agrees with that.. At least one of the VERY successful Morse teaching / training groups requires students to have access to, on initially starting the Basic course, a keyer paddle and electronic keyer (in a radio or stand-alone). Students are taught to send Morse code from the very beginning with a keyer.
Glenn AE0Q
-
At least one of the VERY successful Morse teaching / training groups requires students to have access to, on initially starting the Basic course, a keyer paddle and electronic keyer (in a radio or stand-alone). Students are taught to send Morse code from the very beginning with a keyer.
Sure. But that group seems to be mostly interested in creating contest operators.
-
At least one of the VERY successful Morse teaching / training groups requires students to have access to, on initially starting the Basic course, a keyer paddle and electronic keyer (in a radio or stand-alone). Students are taught to send Morse code from the very beginning with a keyer.
Sure. But that group seems to be mostly interested in creating contest operators.
Not really, there are many menbers that do fast CW for rag chewing and don't participate in contests. It's about learning to have fun on CW, and higher speeds and comprehending Morse code as another language instead of just dots and dashes is the best way to have fun :-)
-
Comprehending Morse code as another language instead of just dots and dashes is the best way to have fun :-)
Morse Code is NOT another language and learning it is MUCH MUCH simpler than learning a new language.
Morse Code is a way of defining English alphabet letters (and Arabic numbers) in sound.
Some people do seem to have difficulty learning Morse Code; I think the plethora of not-very-sensible ideas about learning Code (or other things) makes the task much more difficult than it needs to be.
Learning is enhanced by enjoyment, doing it in a social setting and focusing without getting anxious or otherwise wound-up. If you see it as a chore, it will indeed be a chore. If you can make it into fun, it will come very quickly.
-
Comprehending Morse code as another language instead of just dots and dashes is the best way to have fun :-)
Morse Code is NOT another language and learning it is MUCH MUCH simpler than learning a new language.
Morse Code is a way of defining English alphabet letters (and Arabic numbers) in sound.
...
I don't think I agree with you there. In fact I would be tempted to rephrase that as I, d, o, n, t, t, h, i, n, k, I, a, g, r, e, e, w, i, t, h, y, o, u, t, h, e, r, e.
We could go on telephony and spell out the QSO, but it would be painfully slow and error prone. For anything like a fluent Morse QSO, you really need to be hearing words, not letters.
Martin (G8FXC)
-
OP: "I need something to see what I've keyed after I have completed the word."
I say no, you do not need such a thing. You are adding another layer of complexity that will defocus you. Just send the letters with proper spacing.
-
We could go on telephony and spell out the QSO, but it would be painfully slow and error prone. For anything like a fluent Morse QSO, you really need to be hearing words, not letters.
Martin (G8FXC)
The "words" we hear in Morse are fundamentally English language symbols, expressed in a special system of sounds. These words are NOT in a symbolic language called "Morse."
The reason I am making this point is because calling Morse a language can be a barrier to learners. For those whose native language is English, learning Morse in Ki-Swahili or Farsi or Arabic would be significantly more difficult.
-
We could go on telephony and spell out the QSO, but it would be painfully slow and error prone. For anything like a fluent Morse QSO, you really need to be hearing words, not letters.
Martin (G8FXC)
The "words" we hear in Morse are fundamentally English language symbols, expressed in a special system of sounds. These words are NOT in a symbolic language called "Morse."
The reason I am making this point is because calling Morse a language can be a barrier to learners. For those whose native language is English, learning Morse in Ki-Swahili or Farsi or Arabic would be significantly more difficult.
I'll grant you that - though the language is not specifically English - Morse with an extended symbol set has been used for almost all commonly spoken languages. My point is that to achieve anything like fluency in Morse, you need to move beyond hearing, for example, "..... ----. ----." and thinking "5,9,9" to the point where you hear it and think "ok, he's hearing me loud and clear".
Martin (G8FXC)
-
The language is not specifically English - My point is that to achieve anything like fluency in Morse, you need to move beyond hearing.
I think I understand you. But I would point out two things: the language of Morse Code is indeed English with some jargon. This is much like how physicians speak, in English but with specialized words, jargon, which make understanding a challenge for most non-physicians. Also, when we understand a Morse Code jargon word, like "599," we are indeed hearing something specific.
Exactly how each of us hears a Morse Code sound or group of sounds probably varies a great deal. I am comfortable rag chewing at 25 wpm via what is usually called "head copy" which I think makes me modestly fluent in Morse Code. I can hear the same sounds in several ways simultaneously: via the sounds of individual characters, via the overall sound of a word (like 599 or QSL) or by counting the elements in a character or word. This is how I interpret my listening method(s). Perhaps if I were to increase my listening speed to 30 or 40 wpm I might do less counting or listening to individual characters. I don't know. I don't often have the opportunity to work stations at higher speeds.
My perspective remains that if individuals who want to learn Morse Code make an effort to hear dits and dahs or characters or words in a specific "correct" way, they are making their learning challenge significantly more difficult. We learn best when we don't carry at all time some sort of prescription about how we are learning. Learning for humans is a completely natural, automatic process which takes place in different ways in different minds.
My advice for learners is thus: don't think about how you should be learning. Just listen. When you try to think about how to do it while your brain is automatically trying to absorb something new, you are only making the learning process more complicated and difficult.